I enjoy sealed "investing" but it's backed up by real estate, stocks, gold silver etc so I can afford to take the risk. I like Pokémon though. More collectors than Magic.
I have a handful of sealed things but it's all sets that I loved so I have a booster box to sit on the shelf. It's crazy what even a year or so will do
If really you want your money to increase over time, INVEST IN REAL VENTURES NOT A HOBBY. As a collector, I blow money on modern Magic cards because I want to play them and show them off and I get value from that, not for the long term sale value because it’s part of my retirement plan lol.
he basically said as much in the 1-2 minute mark. "all investment in the tcg world should happen after your investments in the regular financial investments and after your regular life is taken care of."
I hate that speculators and "investors" invaded tcgs. You can't just play the game or collect for the sake of collecting. I doubt that any of these freakazoid investors even know how to play the boxes they collect (Pokemon lol). All the potential value is coming off that in 10-50 years some richie is gonna be nostalgic for the product.
I've been playing magic since '94. I enjoy holding onto sealed product as a part of my collection. Not as to sell it and make a profit. I treat MtG sealed product like a part of my overall collection. I'm not trying to make a profit off it. I just enjoy holding onto sealed product. I like to pick up reserved list cards as well. I have goals in mind that I want to accomplish for my collection. Which involves Reserved List cards and sealed product. With That being said MtG is more than just fancy shiny cardboard. It's a game that helped me find my friend group in High School, a game I played with my platoon buddies in the Marine Corps on liberty. MtG is and has been a very huge part of my adult past-time and is a hobby I cherish and love. So when I see sealed MtG product lose value , it doesn't bother me because I never intended it to be an investment. It's my collection.
Definitely risky to hold sealed I still like holding draft boxes because they will always have utility AND because rising prices of new sets makes older cheap boxes more attractive (even Fallen Empires boxes are worth something) Collector boxes are more of a gamble, but they store nicely and are better for box openings
Genius take on this. Couldn’t agree more. I also invested and now have boxes lower than I paid. They may never go up. I’ll hold them for my grandkids to draft with.
I feel like two things you forgot to mention in this video are: 1. The powercreep has destroyed older boxes. Ultimate Masters has nothing unless you want to play either Commander or Legacy/Vintage. Liliana of the Veil? Irrelevant even in Pioneer. Tarmogoyf, so "weak" now that it cost less than a token. And so on and so forth. These cards were all valuable prior to Modern Horizons 2 (Summer 2021) but you could realistically track the powercreep as far back as War of the Spark (Spring 2019). 2. Why would I care about Opening Ultimate Masters when there's an unreal amount of overlap with both Double Masters and Double Masters 2022. Wizards of the Coasts keeps milking the same 40-50 cards over and over again to the point that their overall values is less than what it was pre-pandemic (ignoring inflation). How many times will we see a Mana Crypt, Mana Vault, Demonic Tutor, Vampiric Tutor, etc., etc. This is without even getting into Secret Lairs reprinting cards and after the Secret Lair prints, that exact same card gets a new printing >.> (Concordant Crossroads AND Mystic Remora).
The sealed Magic products our group bought was extremely cheap 5 to7 years ago. We avoid the new OVERPRICED sealed products. Wizards constant price increases has gotten out of hand. We still enjoy playing Magic but we choose not to get the new sealed boxes unless their is a huge DUMP. We avoid all of the overpriced Collectors boxes because MOST of the time you do not get much value out of them. I will buy a cheap draft box for $89.00. We may buy some singles and get some PROXIES. Remember, NOTHING IS SPECIAL ANYMORE. Wizards has ruined a lot of the collectability of cards on the secondary market while charging ridiculous prices for reprint sets. They have gotten LAZY with Karlov Manor and Thunder Junction. They should have combined these two sets and called it Murders at thunder Junction Manor. Thank you for the video.
Build a cube that can be played on repeat for free. If a new dynamic you are interested in is printed or you want to create a diverse environment, swap it into the cube.
Wow Louie your best vid so far, great points well explained, can't really disagree with any of them, the biggest thing u said is investing isn't what it was when Rudy started. Now since you own a store and have a family already,I say continue keeping sealed for long term gains since you already built a foundation but don't buy extra pallet loads like Rudy does ofcourse.
For those who enjoy the draft experience I think there will be demand for the draft boxes because of the increased costs with play boosters Even discounted prerelease kits are worth swooping up imo
If you're trying to invest in sealed, it's Collector Box or bust...and that's got so much volatility it's more gambling than investing at this point. Got a feeling this ties into the Chicago trip because none of the vendors were trying to sell old sealed product, they focused on singles, buying and selling.
Collector boxes are for collecting. Draft boxes are for saving a few for later for drafting. Sealed boxes containing Reserved List cards is speculating. Graded Reserved List cards would be an investment, but not as liquid an investment as something like the S&P 500 or a CD at 5%
I know that makes sense... But for some reason the last thing I want to own is collector packs... I don't know, it never feels as good to open since like... Maybe neon dynasty, seems like it's always a feel bad
Hey man, love your content. You should do a video on your recording studio. Is that your man cave? Or just a few props to have a background? As a collector, and someone approaching a room remodel, I'd love to see all the cards you have on display and hear why you chose those. Working on which pieces to setup in my space.
stop investing in TCGs people. if only you can see the excel sheets of sales datas on what these companies are making on car board cards daily. your chump change investing pales in every aspect. those are the only people getting rich, not you. there’s no better investment than in yourself, use your resources to level up your self and it will pay off like nothing else.
So... to me you negated your argument when you said you would rather buy it now to play in 5 to 10 years rather than pay a premium for it then. Which means you believe there will be a premium for it in the future. If not just buy it when you want it in the future when it's only $100-120 a box. Unless you think it will be higher... Not saying MTG is the best investment vehicle but the boxes have always gone up.
Honestly the worst thing that ever happened to TCGs is the idea that they're a viable investment strategy. Someone like Rudy can afford to sit on palletes until they acrew a decent profit, but for a normie, you might as well just invest in stocks/bonds. It doesn't matter how many times people say "Don't use TCGs as your primary investment platform" if it's once among a deluge of Jimothy's pushing tendies and stonks there are always going to be people for fall for pump, by in, and get hosed. I suppose the bottom line is that people need to think, but I still hate how prevelant the rhetoric is and how many people let themselves get fooled. Beanie Baby ass investment
@@monkey39128 @monkey39128 I mean, Louie says it, it's fun money. The actual amount of TCG product you need to buy and sell to make any sort of real profit really dumps on the idea of them as an investment at any level. (Obviously reserve list type stuff is different) Frankly if you want to make money off TCGs your better off just running a TCG store. If you're an individual it's much better to buy things you want, and then if they go up and can be sold for profit, be happy you got lucky. So yes, you're right, if you're fully stable financially park your money wherever you want, but the TCG space is only ever going to provide you tiny little margins compared to any actual investment.
Speaking of everything being flashy, I remember watching a Pokemon TH-camr open a LOTR CBB, and he was so confused by what was valuable. He kept assuming that the fancy borderless foils and showcase foils were the money cards, and completely overlooked an orcish bowmasters and even a non-foil party tree, because they looked less impressive.
Nice video Louie! You make some good points about the changes in the industry over the last several years, I agree that stores are inundated with more product than ever - this changes the value of sealed box collecting. People don't have time to savor key products anymore, which used to build personal connections and thus desirability. This is lacking nowadays. My personal view is, the only money that should be "invested" in TCGs is the money one can afford to lose after already taking care of all personal finances first, along with more stable investments such as the home, mutual funds, retirement.
My Magic investment was accidental - I bought extra boxes so I could play with my friends, but we slowed down playing a lot as we all started having kids. I ended up getting rid of all the boxes a few years ago. I think some things will still go up in value 10-20 years from now, but my position is that if it doesn't, I'll just draft with the cards with my friends. It lets me keep my toe in without feeling like I lost a lot if it doesn't hold value. Chaos draft is always a good time. This video got me thinking - maybe Magic is becoming the next day trading?
Masterpiece Sol Ring was only 1200 for a SHORT time during the insane boom. It dropped to around 900 right after that, and it's stayed there. It has zero to do with reprints. Otherwise why has the Masterpiece Mana Crypt OR Vault NOT gone down? Both have had great reprints since their Masterpiece highs
@@KitchenTableTCG uh, you may want to check the Mana Crypt from Lost Cavs my man. This sol ring just hasn't seen the price dip you're making it out to be imo
@@khadorstrong we can agree to disagree. It’s pretty nuanced. I see your point to the highest rarity manacrypt. But that doesn’t have the same allure as the serialized sol ring imo. I appreciate you!
@@KitchenTableTCG actually you've changed my mind(first time on the Internet) you're right , no matter how rare the Ixilan mana crypt is, it's not going to match a LOTR Sol Ring because of the IP If the Mana Crypt was Thanos's throne or Sepiroths power core or something that would be a better comparison! Keep up the good work
I "invest" in a draft boxe per set so in 5-10 years i can open them and draft with friends without having to worry about some random price spike for a box.
It's like, some of the original value of sealed was that they were nostalgic, had cards/treatments unique to that set, and could offer a draft experience in the future specific to that set. Now you have Wizards milking product that feeds on nostalgia, has new cards/treatments but also old ones as well, and are still draftable. Unless it's a product that is very niche (very difficult to get, maybe extremely high in price), there's almost no reason at all to pick up any current sealed product to hold as an investment. You're much better off just buying into the Reserve List, and who knows how long Hasbro will stay true to that 'promise' given their current financial situation.
You're not wrong about old product openings. Nobody cares! It's all about the new stuff. You could open packs of Antiquities and other old sets and get less views than the latest Magic set. You'd also be lucky to be in positive territory if you invested in Reserved list singles over the last 2 years. That stuff is only just starting to recover from the MTG market crash!
Play magic, be happy, remember, it's a game, a cardboard game. The seal product is valuable because of the possibility of getting certain cards, then u can collect the cards, not the sealed packs. For me, it is a lil' weird to have sealed product and not play with it.
It makes me laugh every time we have to clarify that what money we put in cards is OBVIOUSLY spare money we can afford to lose entirely. Heck, I have my basic (and some) things taken care of. If you are broke you should not be buying shiny cardboard LOL!
This is a refreshing take on this topic. I was buying sealed around 2015 through 2021. I think Strixhaven was my last set but even before then, I slowed down a lot compared to 2015 - 2018 and was completely out by 2023. I really didn't like the direction Wizard was going. Nothing felt special. To many products between draft, set and collectors made no sense to me. Within that stretch of time, overall, I did turn a profit. I sold portions of my collection during the boom of 2019 - 2020 sold again between 2021 and 2022. In 2023 I was completely out of sealed magic. My lesson to anyone is don't buy this stuff with intentions on selling anytime soon. 5 years isn't even enough time. Maybe 10-15 years after purchase you'll probably have a healthy and stable increased percentage from when you purchased. Products that I've held for 5 years at the height of the market sold for almost triple what I paid for it (at a $80.00 draft buy-in). The same products also crashed and I've sold them at either very little profit, breakeven, or even at a loss depending on the time. I'm so in the next 3 - 5 years they will rise again but we are talking now a 8 - 15 year window from time of purchase. I 100% agree with Louie. Its a lot of fun, but it should not be your primary investment.
this is why the lore is important. if your friends are going to your place you can easily educate them about the story of mtg... IP is important for collectors.
You can still invest in MTG sealed products but they will take more time to go up. Unlike Lorwyn that went up very quickly 2 - 3 years most sealed products will now take 10 - 15 years before getting strong returns.
ppl need to stop calling mtg an investment. Its not an investment. As soon as people realize this the so called "investors" will be gone so us real mtg folks can just enjoy the game as richard intended
My wife and I have been picking up a couple cases of draft boxes for each set to just set in the closet and see what happens 20 years from now. This does come after our other retirement stuff and I expect we'll spend less now that we have a kid on the way. Worst case scenario we have a blast cracking and playing with friends.
Ultimate Masters and War of the Spark have doubled from their release day prices. If you buy Magic booster boxes around release, they're going to increase in value after three or four years. The 2021-2023 boxes were overprinted, yet how many of those draft booster boxes can you purchase right now for under $90, under $100? A trash set like Fate Reforged was $80 for a year or two, now it's $150. Standard and Modern no longer exist, so there goes some of the value of the boxes, but ultimately there's no evidence that sealed Magic boxes are losing investments over any period longer than 2 or 3 years.
I agree. Wizards isn't going to let re-sellers take all the profits. If there's additional value in these cards in collecting or nostalgia of course Wizards wants to extract it. Folks like Rudy seized an opportunity to profit off the hype no different than a drop ship course seller. Magic has always been, and should be about the game and card pieces. And yes, there's nostalgia and wanting to collect certain pieces that comes with it. But that only exists if there is a game and if people enjoy playing the game so they can look fondly upon it. This idea that some cardboard inherently has 'value' and will automatically appreciate is just a lie. The thing is, it's not re-prints that destroy 'value'. It's the fact that they've printed so many different cards and they destroyed the constructed formats for Standard and Modern. If people played Standard and Modern more then whenever there's new cards people will buy it to get new cards. There's no more reason to get new cards when there's 20 sets released every year and you don't even play constructed. There's zero demand for new cards other than to maybe draft a couple of times and feed some nostalgia.
Investing in sealed product for the last few years seems more and more risky.. but hey I've only ever specced on a handful of cards in my time in magic
the explosion in product has required a speed up of the power creep by wotc which is why cards quickly lose the interest of the players. In the past lots of cards remained relevant for multiple years before their power eroded. Currently within months all but one or two of each set lose their relevance
Our group buy an old Draft Box from time to time, and we play sealed between us. We only pick cheap sets, and we are bot looking to get an expensive card out of it
It was great before the rise of MTG finance on YT. Speculation was done more quieter back then. However, when everyone and their mom started investing as folks started to shill it on YT, it caused diminishing returns and other side effects. It became as risky of an "investment" as speculating on singles. Eventually it just crash down. Dunno how it is post pandemic, but it isn't worthy the hassle if you can't do volume.
Love your channel Louie! I agree with you 90% except that the guys over at MTG North make those old box openings super fun and entertaining. Love your content and your contribution to the community and I hope to meet you someday at a Con. I appreciate you!
Gotta be honest here. Unregistered assets have an argument for diversification for a portfolio. But investing in sealed is literally one of the worst ways to 'invest' in MTG, unless its from the first set and holding for decades. Sealed, most especially non-reserve list, really is on the side of collecting and having a hobby. Alpha Investments/Rudy sold you all a fantasy while he buys what could actually be considered an investment: reserve list cards from the first set.
I think you are late. the last 3 years were bad for investing in sealed. I think the next few years will be way better with lower printruns. edit: also people were buying alot of sealed the last years because of rudy, free money and so on, I think many people have stopped so the opprtunity might come back. I dont invest in sealed but Im pretty sure stuff like LOTR, Ixalan, ravnica Remastered and Fallout will be significantly more worth in a few years down the road.
I have been enjoying recently watching Investbros videos filmed from their 1 bedroom apartments telling people to buy pokemon or magic cards or boosters or cases etc. It is really pathetic and sad that so many people are too stupid to not understand that what they are thinking is speculation and not investing. Rudy can invest because he can sit on it for a decade... nearly 100% of investbros in Pokemon or Magic can only buy a booster case a month and hope to sell it by the end of the year it is pathetic. TH-cam helps with these "content creators" turn them into hoarders which really is what they are.
I liked the video. Something that really would have added to this - showing raw data. We can believe you all we want but you didn't show any price trends to back up your story and experiences. Your thumbnail has a price graph but not the video itself.
Also it is because of all those InvestBros that you end up with crap like the low print run for Fallout purposefully made to pump up the price and start introducing people to expensive sets. I swear hasbro is moving away from the playing part of mtg to the collecting part (I mean the hoarding part) of collector booster boxes and sealed cases. Why sell cheap products when you can make hundreds of millions purposefully introducing scarcity in a mass produced market? Investbors are to blame, distributors are to blame but ultimately Hasbro is to blame. Pokemon doesn t have this problem
Of course there's little interest in 5 yo product, 5 years ain't shit. Urza's block on the other hand.... You just need to wait longer. By all means, take more out of circulation by opening though.
I have been shouting as loud as I can and often as I can about reprints and to a lesser extent power creep for almost 2 years now. I get a lot of flak for it, but until WotC makes me believe they will stop the irresponsible reprinting and will not return to it in the future, I am not buying any MTG. Let me be very clear MTG has done irreparable damage to itself with the irresponsible reprinting. We have not seen the acceptance of that fact from the wider audience yet. That day is coming, and when it does there will be a reckoning and precipitous drop in purchasing.
Totally agree- modern cards are worthless. I’d like to expand your horizon on investable MTG cards. Reserved list cards are great, I 100% agree, but so are ABU original printings and foils from before 8th edition. Just my two cents. Cheers.
Obviously a larger discussion than a youtube comment can relay but I agree with some of your points. Modern/current magic(pioneer sets forward) to me don't have much investment appeal. Poor growth and anything that might have potential has gotten shot down with reprints. Nothing wrong with that either, as a player I like cracking some old hotness that now falls in my deck building budget. That just means I'm not buying cases to sit on. I keep one or 2 draft boxes as I might want to draft or sell to someone who does in the future. One note, I bought a masterpiece Sol Ring back in 2018 or 2019 for around $250.00. I would say the spike on that due to the economy "boom" was the abnormality and it shouldn't have got to over 1k. Assisted by the newer versions I think it's settling to where it would have been without the spike.
Well, if you put that same money in the bank it would have done nothing too... at least you got to look at something nice and possibly a conversation piece =D and of course you wouldn't have made this video if that same money sat in your bank.
I think new sets will continue to crash below distro and this will push new singles up since the supply will have to catch ip to demand when these cards get broken in by pro players.
If I had all those booster boxes I'd sell them all to buy a bunch of cigarettes to smoke them 24/7 while I sit back and watch channels like this that don't know how to run a store and give out false info. This guy not only makes himself look bad he hurts other collectors In the process over his poor decision making. If you call yourself a collector you also have to make wise decisions you know that. Not shove it all in a closet then forget because you have to much merchandise to keep track of. Correct? Maybe should down size a bit?
That's actually not a fact and is misleading to not collect anything if the person isn't financially stable. So your saying look the other way so whales and everyone else buys at the lowest and none is left. Isn't there tons of cards that increase in value within a couple minutes. Those ppl obviously missed the train then. And if you got in at the right time but you didn't get out at the highs that means you messed up and got stuck with it. I'm sure it went up but maybe your to busy making youtube vids 24/7 like a bunch of other channels on here. Then give out false info then it looks worse. You tcg collectors really know how to make a crash look like a wreck😂
Im glad people like you and Rudy are holding dead products and calling "investments" when in reality you bunch of people are making the game more expensive for new players to come in. Hobbies should be fun not this bs about holding cards and products to raise their value. Good riddance.
Title is a joke in itself - ya nobody likes watching box openings okay??? Ya nobody will want to draft these in the future??? With fewer and fewer available as time goes on. Draft is still highly likable so your theory they don’t go up in value over time makes 0 sense. Lay off the dope
Sure the box can go up in value...and you can keep your boxes of Ultimate Masters where there's literally tokens worth more than Tarmogoyf. Collector Boxes maybe, but that's due to higher probability of hits like anime cards, bonus sheet foils, and serialized. But people aren't drafting those, and there's a reason Roodie hasn't opened new draft Magic product in several years.
@@kazekage_gaara_-8027 why would you open draft when you have collectors to open for content?? You’re really having a hard time today huh? Rudy’s TH-cam opening signups sell out in like 10 mins or less so again why would he open his own shyt? He doesn’t advocate to open shyt for investing
@@Bo11Jangles you missed the entire point. Why would anyone invest in draft boxes when Collector Boxes exist? Play Boxes tanked partially because people didn't want to draft a format where they couldn't ever break even, but you're implying that over time people will want to because as you said, "Draft is still likeable". Power creep and reprints nuked people sitting on Innistrad, Eldritch Moon, and even the Ravnica sets. No one wants to sit on sealed boxes for those reasons and then some.
@@kazekage_gaara_-8027 I didn’t miss anything. Just chose to move past the 101 concepts that are obvious. The reality is a lot of magic players are low income bums without money in this time due to inflation and post COVID era where they blew all their checks on dumb shyt (because they aren’t used to having disposable income past $50 at a time. Now that they can’t afford to buy sealed, they are saying the sets suck, too expensive, etc. Pool ppl are the best at coming up with excuses for why something isn’t good. Enjoy living amongst the depressed broke rats of society. Can’t wait to retire at 50
You shouldn't be trying to invest in tcg's full stop, that's not an investment. Collecting it is fine but other than that it's called gambling.
I miss when people didn’t assume value appreciation in a hobby lol. It can happen naturally but not if you factor it in ahead of time.
@markusbetts-That's the thing all the flipper bros don't get.Pokemon Yugioh grew popular naturally.A box shouldn't come out amd 10X.
I enjoy sealed "investing" but it's backed up by real estate, stocks, gold silver etc so I can afford to take the risk. I like Pokémon though. More collectors than Magic.
@@monkey39128 Really wish MtG peeps had the same “Gotta Catch ‘em All” mentality as Pokémon enjoyers lol
@@markusbetts Yeah that would be nice! 😂
I have a handful of sealed things but it's all sets that I loved so I have a booster box to sit on the shelf. It's crazy what even a year or so will do
If really you want your money to increase over time, INVEST IN REAL VENTURES NOT A HOBBY. As a collector, I blow money on modern Magic cards because I want to play them and show them off and I get value from that, not for the long term sale value because it’s part of my retirement plan lol.
he basically said as much in the 1-2 minute mark. "all investment in the tcg world should happen after your investments in the regular financial investments and after your regular life is taken care of."
I hate that speculators and "investors" invaded tcgs. You can't just play the game or collect for the sake of collecting. I doubt that any of these freakazoid investors even know how to play the boxes they collect (Pokemon lol). All the potential value is coming off that in 10-50 years some richie is gonna be nostalgic for the product.
I've been playing magic since '94. I enjoy holding onto sealed product as a part of my collection. Not as to sell it and make a profit. I treat MtG sealed product like a part of my overall collection. I'm not trying to make a profit off it. I just enjoy holding onto sealed product. I like to pick up reserved list cards as well. I have goals in mind that I want to accomplish for my collection. Which involves Reserved List cards and sealed product. With That being said MtG is more than just fancy shiny cardboard. It's a game that helped me find my friend group in High School, a game I played with my platoon buddies in the Marine Corps on liberty. MtG is and has been a very huge part of my adult past-time and is a hobby I cherish and love. So when I see sealed MtG product lose value , it doesn't bother me because I never intended it to be an investment. It's my collection.
Definitely risky to hold sealed
I still like holding draft boxes because they will always have utility AND because rising prices of new sets makes older cheap boxes more attractive (even Fallen Empires boxes are worth something)
Collector boxes are more of a gamble, but they store nicely and are better for box openings
Genius take on this. Couldn’t agree more. I also invested and now have boxes lower than I paid. They may never go up. I’ll hold them for my grandkids to draft with.
I feel like two things you forgot to mention in this video are:
1. The powercreep has destroyed older boxes. Ultimate Masters has nothing unless you want to play either Commander or Legacy/Vintage. Liliana of the Veil? Irrelevant even in Pioneer. Tarmogoyf, so "weak" now that it cost less than a token. And so on and so forth. These cards were all valuable prior to Modern Horizons 2 (Summer 2021) but you could realistically track the powercreep as far back as War of the Spark (Spring 2019).
2. Why would I care about Opening Ultimate Masters when there's an unreal amount of overlap with both Double Masters and Double Masters 2022. Wizards of the Coasts keeps milking the same 40-50 cards over and over again to the point that their overall values is less than what it was pre-pandemic (ignoring inflation). How many times will we see a Mana Crypt, Mana Vault, Demonic Tutor, Vampiric Tutor, etc., etc. This is without even getting into Secret Lairs reprinting cards and after the Secret Lair prints, that exact same card gets a new printing >.> (Concordant Crossroads AND Mystic Remora).
Good. Cardboard shouldn't be an investment. Should be fun
The sealed Magic products our group bought was extremely cheap 5 to7 years ago. We avoid the new OVERPRICED sealed products. Wizards constant price increases has gotten out of hand. We still enjoy playing Magic but we choose not to get the new sealed boxes unless their is a huge DUMP. We avoid all of the overpriced Collectors boxes because MOST of the time you do not get much value out of them. I will buy a cheap draft box for $89.00. We may buy some singles and get some PROXIES. Remember, NOTHING IS SPECIAL ANYMORE. Wizards has ruined a lot of the collectability of cards on the secondary market while charging ridiculous prices for reprint sets. They have gotten LAZY with Karlov Manor and Thunder Junction. They should have combined these two sets and called it Murders at thunder Junction Manor. Thank you for the video.
Build a cube that can be played on repeat for free. If a new dynamic you are interested in is printed or you want to create a diverse environment, swap it into the cube.
I just print proxies at work when the boss is out doing stuff
Wow Louie your best vid so far, great points well explained, can't really disagree with any of them, the biggest thing u said is investing isn't what it was when Rudy started. Now since you own a store and have a family already,I say continue keeping sealed for long term gains since you already built a foundation but don't buy extra pallet loads like Rudy does ofcourse.
For those who enjoy the draft experience I think there will be demand for the draft boxes because of the increased costs with play boosters
Even discounted prerelease kits are worth swooping up imo
Tttyyy look back at the price of return to ravnica draft boxes (that set came out in October of 2012)
If you're trying to invest in sealed, it's Collector Box or bust...and that's got so much volatility it's more gambling than investing at this point.
Got a feeling this ties into the Chicago trip because none of the vendors were trying to sell old sealed product, they focused on singles, buying and selling.
Collector boxes are for collecting. Draft boxes are for saving a few for later for drafting. Sealed boxes containing Reserved List cards is speculating. Graded Reserved List cards would be an investment, but not as liquid an investment as something like the S&P 500 or a CD at 5%
@@magusofthebargain All fair and valid points.
I know that makes sense... But for some reason the last thing I want to own is collector packs... I don't know, it never feels as good to open since like... Maybe neon dynasty, seems like it's always a feel bad
Hey man, love your content. You should do a video on your recording studio. Is that your man cave? Or just a few props to have a background? As a collector, and someone approaching a room remodel, I'd love to see all the cards you have on display and hear why you chose those. Working on which pieces to setup in my space.
stop investing in TCGs people. if only you can see the excel sheets of sales datas on what these companies are making on car board cards daily. your chump change investing pales in every aspect. those are the only people getting rich, not you. there’s no better investment than in yourself, use your resources to level up your self and it will pay off like nothing else.
So... to me you negated your argument when you said you would rather buy it now to play in 5 to 10 years rather than pay a premium for it then.
Which means you believe there will be a premium for it in the future. If not just buy it when you want it in the future when it's only $100-120 a box. Unless you think it will be higher... Not saying MTG is the best investment vehicle but the boxes have always gone up.
Honestly the worst thing that ever happened to TCGs is the idea that they're a viable investment strategy. Someone like Rudy can afford to sit on palletes until they acrew a decent profit, but for a normie, you might as well just invest in stocks/bonds.
It doesn't matter how many times people say "Don't use TCGs as your primary investment platform" if it's once among a deluge of Jimothy's pushing tendies and stonks there are always going to be people for fall for pump, by in, and get hosed. I suppose the bottom line is that people need to think, but I still hate how prevelant the rhetoric is and how many people let themselves get fooled.
Beanie Baby ass investment
@The_Sniffygull-😹👏🏻👍🏻
"Primary" being the key word. If you already have a solid foundation then it's not so bad.
@@monkey39128 @monkey39128 I mean, Louie says it, it's fun money. The actual amount of TCG product you need to buy and sell to make any sort of real profit really dumps on the idea of them as an investment at any level. (Obviously reserve list type stuff is different)
Frankly if you want to make money off TCGs your better off just running a TCG store. If you're an individual it's much better to buy things you want, and then if they go up and can be sold for profit, be happy you got lucky.
So yes, you're right, if you're fully stable financially park your money wherever you want, but the TCG space is only ever going to provide you tiny little margins compared to any actual investment.
Speaking of everything being flashy, I remember watching a Pokemon TH-camr open a LOTR CBB, and he was so confused by what was valuable. He kept assuming that the fancy borderless foils and showcase foils were the money cards, and completely overlooked an orcish bowmasters and even a non-foil party tree, because they looked less impressive.
So weird how the two TCG's are at opposite ends of the spectrum. Magic is 90% players and Pokémon is 90% collectors. Funny old world.
Time to open all of them now😊
I hope this weeks podcast you talk about Altered tcg. It's making history, and you keep ignoring it because you're a Sorcery fanboy.
Don't invest in sealed products. I'm happy if I am the only one selling those boxes in 10 years from now.
Nice video Louie! You make some good points about the changes in the industry over the last several years, I agree that stores are inundated with more product than ever - this changes the value of sealed box collecting. People don't have time to savor key products anymore, which used to build personal connections and thus desirability. This is lacking nowadays.
My personal view is, the only money that should be "invested" in TCGs is the money one can afford to lose after already taking care of all personal finances first, along with more stable investments such as the home, mutual funds, retirement.
My Magic investment was accidental - I bought extra boxes so I could play with my friends, but we slowed down playing a lot as we all started having kids. I ended up getting rid of all the boxes a few years ago. I think some things will still go up in value 10-20 years from now, but my position is that if it doesn't, I'll just draft with the cards with my friends. It lets me keep my toe in without feeling like I lost a lot if it doesn't hold value. Chaos draft is always a good time. This video got me thinking - maybe Magic is becoming the next day trading?
Masterpiece Sol Ring was only 1200 for a SHORT time during the insane boom. It dropped to around 900 right after that, and it's stayed there. It has zero to do with reprints. Otherwise why has the Masterpiece Mana Crypt OR Vault NOT gone down? Both have had great reprints since their Masterpiece highs
Neither of those cards have the rarity reprint that the serialized sol rings have.
@@KitchenTableTCG uh, you may want to check the Mana Crypt from Lost Cavs my man. This sol ring just hasn't seen the price dip you're making it out to be imo
@@khadorstrong we can agree to disagree. It’s pretty nuanced. I see your point to the highest rarity manacrypt. But that doesn’t have the same allure as the serialized sol ring imo.
I appreciate you!
@@KitchenTableTCG actually you've changed my mind(first time on the Internet) you're right , no matter how rare the Ixilan mana crypt is, it's not going to match a LOTR Sol Ring because of the IP
If the Mana Crypt was Thanos's throne or Sepiroths power core or something that would be a better comparison!
Keep up the good work
I "invest" in a draft boxe per set so in 5-10 years i can open them and draft with friends without having to worry about some random price spike for a box.
My LGS is so stubborn. They haven't repriced since 2021.
Its no rocket science. The chase cards in a box arent unique. You can chose multiple boxen based on the chase you want to pull.
When people start making videos like this in any market, that's usually the right time to start buying.
It's like, some of the original value of sealed was that they were nostalgic, had cards/treatments unique to that set, and could offer a draft experience in the future specific to that set. Now you have Wizards milking product that feeds on nostalgia, has new cards/treatments but also old ones as well, and are still draftable. Unless it's a product that is very niche (very difficult to get, maybe extremely high in price), there's almost no reason at all to pick up any current sealed product to hold as an investment. You're much better off just buying into the Reserve List, and who knows how long Hasbro will stay true to that 'promise' given their current financial situation.
That’s why once a year release is better for Sorcery.
You're not wrong about old product openings. Nobody cares! It's all about the new stuff. You could open packs of Antiquities and other old sets and get less views than the latest Magic set. You'd also be lucky to be in positive territory if you invested in Reserved list singles over the last 2 years. That stuff is only just starting to recover from the MTG market crash!
Play magic, be happy, remember, it's a game, a cardboard game. The seal product is valuable because of the possibility of getting certain cards, then u can collect the cards, not the sealed packs. For me, it is a lil' weird to have sealed product and not play with it.
It makes me laugh every time we have to clarify that what money we put in cards is OBVIOUSLY spare money we can afford to lose entirely. Heck, I have my basic (and some) things taken care of. If you are broke you should not be buying shiny cardboard LOL!
A local guy is selling boxes of neon dynasty pretty cheap and id love one but having a hard time pulling the trigger...
This is a refreshing take on this topic. I was buying sealed around 2015 through 2021. I think Strixhaven was my last set but even before then, I slowed down a lot compared to 2015 - 2018 and was completely out by 2023. I really didn't like the direction Wizard was going. Nothing felt special. To many products between draft, set and collectors made no sense to me. Within that stretch of time, overall, I did turn a profit. I sold portions of my collection during the boom of 2019 - 2020 sold again between 2021 and 2022. In 2023 I was completely out of sealed magic. My lesson to anyone is don't buy this stuff with intentions on selling anytime soon. 5 years isn't even enough time. Maybe 10-15 years after purchase you'll probably have a healthy and stable increased percentage from when you purchased. Products that I've held for 5 years at the height of the market sold for almost triple what I paid for it (at a $80.00 draft buy-in). The same products also crashed and I've sold them at either very little profit, breakeven, or even at a loss depending on the time. I'm so in the next 3 - 5 years they will rise again but we are talking now a 8 - 15 year window from time of purchase. I 100% agree with Louie. Its a lot of fun, but it should not be your primary investment.
this is why the lore is important. if your friends are going to your place you can easily educate them about the story of mtg... IP is important for collectors.
You can still invest in MTG sealed products but they will take more time to go up. Unlike Lorwyn that went up very quickly 2 - 3 years most sealed products will now take 10 - 15 years before getting strong returns.
Part of it stems from the introduction of different kinds of packs.
I’d love to watch some ultimate masters and war of the spark box openings
Yes sir throne of eldraine and original doninaria too😊
ppl need to stop calling mtg an investment. Its not an investment. As soon as people realize this the so called "investors" will be gone so us real mtg folks can just enjoy the game as richard intended
Guess the card win the card
time for some box openings!!!
My wife and I have been picking up a couple cases of draft boxes for each set to just set in the closet and see what happens 20 years from now. This does come after our other retirement stuff and I expect we'll spend less now that we have a kid on the way. Worst case scenario we have a blast cracking and playing with friends.
Be greedy when people are fearful. Be fearful when people are greedy.
Ultimate Masters and War of the Spark have doubled from their release day prices. If you buy Magic booster boxes around release, they're going to increase in value after three or four years. The 2021-2023 boxes were overprinted, yet how many of those draft booster boxes can you purchase right now for under $90, under $100? A trash set like Fate Reforged was $80 for a year or two, now it's $150. Standard and Modern no longer exist, so there goes some of the value of the boxes, but ultimately there's no evidence that sealed Magic boxes are losing investments over any period longer than 2 or 3 years.
Ultimate masters was never $160. That’s a Wild statement. War of the spark has done well. I agree.
I agree. Wizards isn't going to let re-sellers take all the profits. If there's additional value in these cards in collecting or nostalgia of course Wizards wants to extract it. Folks like Rudy seized an opportunity to profit off the hype no different than a drop ship course seller.
Magic has always been, and should be about the game and card pieces. And yes, there's nostalgia and wanting to collect certain pieces that comes with it. But that only exists if there is a game and if people enjoy playing the game so they can look fondly upon it. This idea that some cardboard inherently has 'value' and will automatically appreciate is just a lie.
The thing is, it's not re-prints that destroy 'value'. It's the fact that they've printed so many different cards and they destroyed the constructed formats for Standard and Modern. If people played Standard and Modern more then whenever there's new cards people will buy it to get new cards. There's no more reason to get new cards when there's 20 sets released every year and you don't even play constructed. There's zero demand for new cards other than to maybe draft a couple of times and feed some nostalgia.
Investing in sealed product for the last few years seems more and more risky.. but hey I've only ever specced on a handful of cards in my time in magic
the explosion in product has required a speed up of the power creep by wotc which is why cards quickly lose the interest of the players. In the past lots of cards remained relevant for multiple years before their power eroded. Currently within months all but one or two of each set lose their relevance
Our group buy an old Draft Box from time to time, and we play sealed between us. We only pick cheap sets, and we are bot looking to get an expensive card out of it
I completely quit modern magic. Playing the pre-modern formats only and only buy cards from that era as well.
I don’t know why stores hold sealed tbh. Buy it, sell it and reinvest in new products imo
buy low sell high. if everyone is selling old sealed product, im buying!
It was great before the rise of MTG finance on YT. Speculation was done more quieter back then. However, when everyone and their mom started investing as folks started to shill it on YT, it caused diminishing returns and other side effects. It became as risky of an "investment" as speculating on singles. Eventually it just crash down. Dunno how it is post pandemic, but it isn't worthy the hassle if you can't do volume.
I’ve been playing since theros and sets around those times were a cultural event.
Nothing feels special anymore.
Love your channel Louie! I agree with you 90% except that the guys over at MTG North make those old box openings super fun and entertaining. Love your content and your contribution to the community and I hope to meet you someday at a Con. I appreciate you!
Gotta be honest here. Unregistered assets have an argument for diversification for a portfolio. But investing in sealed is literally one of the worst ways to 'invest' in MTG, unless its from the first set and holding for decades. Sealed, most especially non-reserve list, really is on the side of collecting and having a hobby. Alpha Investments/Rudy sold you all a fantasy while he buys what could actually be considered an investment: reserve list cards from the first set.
I don't know everything seems to be doing quite well to me
I think you are late. the last 3 years were bad for investing in sealed. I think the next few years will be way better with lower printruns. edit: also people were buying alot of sealed the last years because of rudy, free money and so on, I think many people have stopped so the opprtunity might come back. I dont invest in sealed but Im pretty sure stuff like LOTR, Ixalan, ravnica Remastered and Fallout will be significantly more worth in a few years down the road.
I have been enjoying recently watching Investbros videos filmed from their 1 bedroom apartments telling people to buy pokemon or magic cards or boosters or cases etc. It is really pathetic and sad that so many people are too stupid to not understand that what they are thinking is speculation and not investing. Rudy can invest because he can sit on it for a decade... nearly 100% of investbros in Pokemon or Magic can only buy a booster case a month and hope to sell it by the end of the year it is pathetic. TH-cam helps with these "content creators" turn them into hoarders which really is what they are.
I liked the video. Something that really would have added to this - showing raw data. We can believe you all we want but you didn't show any price trends to back up your story and experiences. Your thumbnail has a price graph but not the video itself.
Also it is because of all those InvestBros that you end up with crap like the low print run for Fallout purposefully made to pump up the price and start introducing people to expensive sets. I swear hasbro is moving away from the playing part of mtg to the collecting part (I mean the hoarding part) of collector booster boxes and sealed cases. Why sell cheap products when you can make hundreds of millions purposefully introducing scarcity in a mass produced market? Investbors are to blame, distributors are to blame but ultimately Hasbro is to blame. Pokemon doesn t have this problem
Your content is great Louie
This was true 9 months ago. But it’s aging poorly. But I’m with you wizards is a scummy company that reprints to death.
Of course there's little interest in 5 yo product, 5 years ain't shit. Urza's block on the other hand.... You just need to wait longer. By all means, take more out of circulation by opening though.
I have been shouting as loud as I can and often as I can about reprints and to a lesser extent power creep for almost 2 years now. I get a lot of flak for it, but until WotC makes me believe they will stop the irresponsible reprinting and will not return to it in the future, I am not buying any MTG. Let me be very clear MTG has done irreparable damage to itself with the irresponsible reprinting. We have not seen the acceptance of that fact from the wider audience yet. That day is coming, and when it does there will be a reckoning and precipitous drop in purchasing.
Totally agree- modern cards are worthless. I’d like to expand your horizon on investable MTG cards. Reserved list cards are great, I 100% agree, but so are ABU original printings and foils from before 8th edition. Just my two cents. Cheers.
Nerds!!😂
🤓
Your talking about a long game so its hard to tell 20 years
There is ZERO reason to invest in Magic the Gathering, ~ There. Fixed that for you.
You'd be up a lot right now if you had though.
Magic isn’t what it used to be.. save your money or get into another hobby or play an amazing game like Flesh and Blood
Obviously a larger discussion than a youtube comment can relay but I agree with some of your points. Modern/current magic(pioneer sets forward) to me don't have much investment appeal. Poor growth and anything that might have potential has gotten shot down with reprints. Nothing wrong with that either, as a player I like cracking some old hotness that now falls in my deck building budget. That just means I'm not buying cases to sit on. I keep one or 2 draft boxes as I might want to draft or sell to someone who does in the future. One note, I bought a masterpiece Sol Ring back in 2018 or 2019 for around $250.00. I would say the spike on that due to the economy "boom" was the abnormality and it shouldn't have got to over 1k. Assisted by the newer versions I think it's settling to where it would have been without the spike.
Well, if you put that same money in the bank it would have done nothing too... at least you got to look at something nice and possibly a conversation piece =D and of course you wouldn't have made this video if that same money sat in your bank.
I think new sets will continue to crash below distro and this will push new singles up since the supply will have to catch ip to demand when these cards get broken in by pro players.
If I had all those booster boxes I'd sell them all to buy a bunch of cigarettes to smoke them 24/7 while I sit back and watch channels like this that don't know how to run a store and give out false info. This guy not only makes himself look bad he hurts other collectors In the process over his poor decision making. If you call yourself a collector you also have to make wise decisions you know that. Not shove it all in a closet then forget because you have to much merchandise to keep track of. Correct? Maybe should down size a bit?
That's actually not a fact and is misleading to not collect anything if the person isn't financially stable. So your saying look the other way so whales and everyone else buys at the lowest and none is left. Isn't there tons of cards that increase in value within a couple minutes. Those ppl obviously missed the train then. And if you got in at the right time but you didn't get out at the highs that means you messed up and got stuck with it. I'm sure it went up but maybe your to busy making youtube vids 24/7 like a bunch of other channels on here. Then give out false info then it looks worse. You tcg collectors really know how to make a crash look like a wreck😂
Im glad people like you and Rudy are holding dead products and calling "investments" when in reality you bunch of people are making the game more expensive for new players to come in. Hobbies should be fun not this bs about holding cards and products to raise their value. Good riddance.
Typo in the title.
You invest in those particular cards, not in the possibility of getting those particular cards.
Wrong
Sorcery!!
Title is a joke in itself - ya nobody likes watching box openings okay??? Ya nobody will want to draft these in the future??? With fewer and fewer available as time goes on. Draft is still highly likable so your theory they don’t go up in value over time makes 0 sense. Lay off the dope
Bojangles is tough
How long have you been playing?
Sure the box can go up in value...and you can keep your boxes of Ultimate Masters where there's literally tokens worth more than Tarmogoyf.
Collector Boxes maybe, but that's due to higher probability of hits like anime cards, bonus sheet foils, and serialized. But people aren't drafting those, and there's a reason Roodie hasn't opened new draft Magic product in several years.
@@kazekage_gaara_-8027 why would you open draft when you have collectors to open for content?? You’re really having a hard time today huh? Rudy’s TH-cam opening signups sell out in like 10 mins or less so again why would he open his own shyt? He doesn’t advocate to open shyt for investing
@@Bo11Jangles you missed the entire point. Why would anyone invest in draft boxes when Collector Boxes exist?
Play Boxes tanked partially because people didn't want to draft a format where they couldn't ever break even, but you're implying that over time people will want to because as you said, "Draft is still likeable".
Power creep and reprints nuked people sitting on Innistrad, Eldritch Moon, and even the Ravnica sets.
No one wants to sit on sealed boxes for those reasons and then some.
@@kazekage_gaara_-8027 I didn’t miss anything. Just chose to move past the 101 concepts that are obvious. The reality is a lot of magic players are low income bums without money in this time due to inflation and post COVID era where they blew all their checks on dumb shyt (because they aren’t used to having disposable income past $50 at a time. Now that they can’t afford to buy sealed, they are saying the sets suck, too expensive, etc. Pool ppl are the best at coming up with excuses for why something isn’t good. Enjoy living amongst the depressed broke rats of society. Can’t wait to retire at 50