I graduated high school in 1971, L.A. My friend Tom Kingsley was a "rich kid" who followed me to Venice, California, where rent was cheap. I lived on the strand, the oceanfront, the BEACH for 120 bucks a month for a single (3 rooms including bathroom and kitchenette). Now it's...hold onto your hat...three thousand a month. L.A. houses a lot of evil real estate. Tom went to U.C.L.A., I went to work in Beverly Hills for a buck-fifty ($1.50) an hour. Tom moved a block away into a little house with a dirt yard. He called me up one Sunday and said "get over here!" and I did and he put Romantic Warrior on his Gerrard turntable and we smoked a doobie and life was excellent.
Beautifully done Saw RTF in 74 with Bill,incredible passionate concert He actually provided some wildness that the later incarnations lacked a little bit....but the writing was awesome nevertheless Maybe a show about what you called the strange career of Bill Connors he`s an interesting case for sure
They are still my favourite band of all time. I love all of their albums even Musicmagic. I also really like listening to the bootleg live recordings around 1976, some of those live versions they play I probably prefer to the studio as there’s just more energy. The recordings from Oslo & Paris are my favourites, just blazing perfection.
Your comment about ELP, RTF and bombasticness really hit the nail on the head. Romantic Warrior was my intro to RTF, and I was heavily into ELP at the time. I got to see a return of RTF in concert 1983?? - they were awesome. Especially like/liked Lenny White- also saw him with his band during the "Astral Pirates" tour. For much of the song "The Sorceress" HE DOES NOT USE HIS HANDS. Thank you for your TH-cam videos!!
my favourite jazz fusion band and i got all their albums on vinyl, as every jazz rock/fusion fan should. The very first one i bought back in the day was light as a feather, officially the first RTF album, it also introduced me to my all time favourite female jazz vocalist in Flora Purim. But the album that came out before that, titled Return to Forever and which is not officially part of the RTF catalogue, took over as my all time favourite. its mellow and less in your face, it transports me into another world. just magic.
I'm only 12 minutes into your video, Andy, but loved "Light as a Feather" as soon as I first heard it in the early 70's. I bought the following 2 or 3 albums but LaaF remained my favourite. I'll wait and see how you rate it. Side story: I was with a mate in the Slug and Lettuce in Lewisham or Catford or somewhere near there, in the mid-70s and there was a good jazz combo, just electric piano and bass, playing jazz standards. Most people were just drinking and pretty much ignoring the band but I could hear that they were really good. At some point, the keyboard player asked if anyone had any requests, clearing expecting little response, so I said "Spain". The guy said something like "At last, someone who really knows his music" and played a great version even without drums. Great memories!
I've been trying to find all their stuff on vinyl. So far I've found only Romantic Warrior used in excellent condition. Found the Circle album years ago as I am a big Anthony Braxton fan. The hunt continues!
First and foremost I appreciate your passion and knowledge of Chick Corea and Return To Forever. I really enjoyed those ranking videos made nearly two years ago. Each RTF album explored and expanded on elements of Rock and Funk. Stanley Clarke was very aware of Larry Graham (Sly & The Family Stone) and other musicians in Funk/Soul/Funk/Rock. Musicians play who they are and where they are musically. So naturally that comes across on No Mystery (which is one of my top favs) and Romantic Warrior. Just as RTF influenced Sting it also sparked the imagination of Prince. Funk was just as important to the band's sound as the Bill Evans influence heard in those beautiful intersections of Where Have I Known You Before. This version of the RTF had fans craving more of that 73-76 sound, fortunate for us those early solo albums by Lenny White, Stanley Clarke and Al Di Meola are of equal quality.
I am looking forward to your Jazz Fusion Vocals Lecture. I am not the greatest Fan of Jazz Rock nor Prog Rock but i really like what you have too say about those two Stiles.
For pure jazz-rock fusion mayhem, 'Romantic Warrior' would probably have to top the list, in part because the album is so well recorded and fully captures the dynamics that this RTF lineup was capable of. But I prefer the first Return to Forever album on ECM (under Chick Corea's name). This album is much less jazz-rock, but instead successfully manages a latin-jazz fusion in large part thanks to Airto Moreira and Flora Purim. Stanley Clarke and Joe Farrell of later RTF line-ups are on the album as well, but the sound floats peacefully rather than dive bombs you into submission like 'Romantic Warrior'.
@@WELLBRAN Mayhem wasn't meant to denigrate RTF. Once you allow yourself to be drawn into the music it has a powerful clockwork logic. I loved 'Romantic Warrior' when it came out, as I did Weather Report, Jean Luc Ponty and others mining that whole vein. But I was in my 20s then, and back then it was always a matter of 'the heavier the better'. But if it hadn't been for fusion, it would have probably taken me longer to take the plunge into jazz...
@@onsenkuma1979 agree in that as coming from prog it was a natural draw to it and you could get it right away..did not have to think about it. Hymn of the 7th is mayhem more so..
@@WELLBRAN Oh the prog connection is there for sure. When I heard Lenny White's powerful drumming on 'Romantic Warrior' it put me to mind of Alan White's work on 'Relayer', especially 'Sound Chaser'. Of course all that connected to Mahavishnu and Buddy Miles' drumming for McLaughlin on 'Devotion', and back to Tony Williams. The great thing about the music of that decade was that hearing something new always opened doors into whole bodies of unfamiliar music to explore...
Romantic Warrior! CLASSIC. Lenny's Baby Blue Gretsch Kit was perfectly recorded on Romantic Warrior. If you are a drummer like you and I are, Lenny's drums never sounded better. Stanley Clarke's playing on upright bass is stellar as well. I wore the grooves off that one in 1976. I caught Lenny's own band in 1977 in a place simply called The Barn. And, the venue was exactly that, a converted old Barn in upstate New York that held maybe around 100 people. I sat right up front and witnessed some extremely amazing playing not only by Lenny, but if memory serves me, Alex Blake on bass and "Captain Keyboards" Don Blackman. In fact the first 3 Lenny White solo albums Venusian Summer, Big City and adventures of The Astral Pirates are all noteworthy fusion releases by a drummer in the '70's. I don't think they sold nearly as well as Tony Williams Believe It, Harvey Mason's Marching In The Streets or Billy Cobham's Spectrum albums, but they are classic in my book.
People would ask how long it took to set up the snare sound and they would say half an hour ....they were shocked...other bands would spend half a day or more trying to subdue the snare....and it is a beautiful snare sound of Lenny White's.....well rounded but striking enough.
About chic's scientology. It was part of the reason Bill Connors quit RTF. I guess it didn't bother Stanley Clark (hell he got converted into scientology). Al Di Meola blames scientology for the breakup of RTF. I don't think Chic was able to recruit Lenny White. As far as Chic's electric band I know it rubbed Scott Henderson the wrong way when he was with Chic's Electric Band. I guess it didn't bother Frank Gambale or some other members but I'm not really sure. It would be interesting to hear their opinions on this.
I saw this band with Steve Gadd on drums way back when they first started out. Yep, it was pretty good. Side note -- I met Steve Gadd a week earlier (didn't know who he was -- no one did back them) . He was playing in a lounge.
Many thanks, Andy, for another excellent review of the Return To Forever albums. Romantic Warrior was the first RTF album I bought and I was blown away by it and I later bought a Japanese SACD of it, where the recording has extraordinary clarity and range. Sadly, I agree with you that some of the other albums are let down by their recordings. I don't have "Hymn To The Seventh Galaxy" and will have to look into buying it. Finally, I have the greatest respect for Chick Corea as a musician and his technical prowess is quite amazing.
I was a HUGE RTF fan starting with Hymn of The Seventh Galaxy. I saw an ad for it in Melody Maker music paper, which was my music bible when I was a kid. I saw the classic lineup with Di Meola 5 times in their heyday. I was even at Carnegie Hall, front row center, when Di Meola played his first gig with the band at 19 years old. Without question, one of THEE premier fusion bands of all time.
You spoke for 41 mins and you said word for word everything that I ever thought about all these albums I'm 67 and I discovered return to forever in UK tv playing romantic Warrior...game changer from prog...so I had to back track on all these albums ..and you said it all...as I thought..all those years ago
1- Romantic Warrior 2- Where Have I Know You Before 3- Return to Forever 4- No Mystery 5- Hymn of the Seventh Galaxy (Theme to the Mothership contains one of the BEST Keyboards solos of all time) 6- Light as a Feather 7- Musicmagic (The concert versions on the RTF double live are way better!)
The audience may not, but drummers will notice the beautiful drumming of airto onthe title track of RTF 1972. Superb one the greats aided by perfect ECM production
Helloh, and welcome to this comment. Simply Brilliant Andy. Always enjoy the free form style of your videos as well as the topics. Keep pushing forwards. RTF RW #1 no question
Wow! I totally agree with you on all selections. The next album after Hymn of the Seventh Galaxy, the first thing I did after hearing the first cut was to read the album to see who was on guitar. The playing seemed similar. But the sound itself was a little different in attack and pitch. Thou it would be hard picking between Romantic Warrior and Hymn of the Seventh Galaxy. If it wasn't that the production sound of Romantic Warrior sounds as if it was recorded in an state of the art studio. While The Hymn of the Seventh Galaxy sound like it may have been recorded in an garage. Love the channel, love your work!
There's a record label called Acoustic Sounds which works on some audiophile quality releases. Right now they're working on the Steely Dan catalog, for instance. You might try contacting them to see if you could get them interested in tracking down and re-releasing a quality version of _"Where Have I Known You Before"._
Pretty much agree with our choices. I do not own Music Magic but have all the others on Vinyl and some on CD. Romantic Warrior is pretty much Jazz Fusion perfection and the CD version is so damn good. The vinyl of Where Have I known you before sounds great but CD is poor. But I recommend you buy the double CD Anthology of Return to Forever from 2008. They have remastered the tracks, especially Hymn of the 7th Galaxy which sound so much better.
Well done Andy....not an easy topic to cover....as there are some real lows and also some of the best JazzRock ever..... I know it is a live album but RETURNS has some of the definitive versions of classic RTF peices, for me, and is certainly helped by an awesome Lenny White drum sound. I am a huge Lenny fan, and at last he has a sound worthy of his immense talent!!! 70's RTF has to be RW but also Galaxy because of Billy !!!
Yes that live album is peneomenol. If I included live albums then it opens the door to a lot of confusion because of the Musicmagic live album and the Ponty Gambale line-up. I thought it best to keep to studio
Thoroughly enjoyable vid, of the kind where your knowledge and enthusiasm shine through. Sufficiently inspirational that I sense a return to forever weekend, despite them being a weird one for me. I had your first and last choices on vinyl bought within weeks of each other back in 1981 and I actually preferred two other purchases from the same period …. Tin drum by Japan and product by brand x. Romantic warrior does sound like they’ve been listening to ELP and music magic does have extreme highs and lows between songs and sections of songs I totally agree. Talking of brand x, would love to see an overview of them by yourself as they get an unjust deal in general largely based on the fact that they were a British band as best I can see. I’ve seen disparaging comments on some of their stuff relative to the big American bands but I can’t hear it. Mike Clarke himself said that when he played with them he had to insist on charts as he found it so complex. Anyway,( and despite my inability to capitalise and punctuate correctly due to my phone screen playing up), I commend you on another great vid
Where have I known you before. That was my introduction to RTF. I was in my family’s basement in NYC, listening to WRVR ( a moment of silence please ) , the DJ Les Davis puts stylus to disc and for the next few minutes I was taken away to a place I’d never knew existed. My buddy Eddie was there with me, we were on our way to play basketball. We could not freaking move ! What was this music, who were th guys and where had they been all my young life ? I was raised listening to Big Band like Basie, Duke, Lunceford……..the bebop of Dizzy, Trane, Mingus Byrd…….the old Gospel hymns of Mahalia, the Motown sound was ever present in Brooklyn, Classical……..Beatles , Stones, Sly……….Santana……but I’d finally found something to call my own after the death of Jimi…….RTF was the most influential jazz band for young musicians in the early 70’s…….only Weather Report could hang with them. I’m a huge Tony William Lifetime fan, Holdsworth is my favorite fusion guitarist, but RTF was the beginning and end of the conversation. Now…….even though Al D is on more recordings, Bill Conners is my favorite guitarist of the two. His work on this and Stanley’s Lopsy Lu is phenomenal ! I heard RTF “ Live “ on WRVR’s Monday night show from The Village Gate, recorded it on a cheap .99 cent tape ! I’d kill to find that tape now 50 years later. You guys can search on TH-cam and a few of the live fusion concerts are here. I’ve heard Mahavishnu , RTF, Stanley , Cobham and others . Not great recordings but nice to hear decades later. Thanks for your in-depth review brother. I’m a fan forever 😎
When I started to really absorb music around 13 years old, I started out as a Heavy Metal & a Hard Rock kid with bands like Led Zeppelin, AC/DC, Iron Maiden, Metallica, Thin Lizzy. Then I moved towards more obscure bands like Steely Dan, Yes, Focus, Frank Zappa & The Mothers. Then when I was 17 years old I discover a genre called Jazz Fusion which completely changed my life and the bands from that genre that really helped define my taste. But the band that blew me away when I heard that first note from them was Return To Forever. You knew it might have been coming because of my profile picture but they are my favourite band of all time. I have only allowed myself to have one favourite RTF album, I could have easily just filled it up with all of their albums. The Romantic Warrior is my all time favourite album & if I could only have one album on a desert island it would be that one. I took a good long think about this question & I love the whole discography. I like the first couple Latin albums with Flora Purim. I adore the rawness & the variety of the early heavy Fusion albums. Their last studio album Musicmagic not so much but the live albums that they recorded just before they disbanded in 1978 are great. I also really like the Bill Connors era with RTF in 1973, I adore all the albums with Al Di Meola. Where Have I Known You Before is fantastic, No Mystery just a little bit lower in my ranking but side two of that album is beautiful. Of course Romantic Warrior is their masterpiece. Also all of their bootleg live recordings in 1976 are just amazing, I would have loved if they made an official live album during the Romantic Warrior tour, & even their reunion album Returns from 2008 is still really enjoyable. Overall when I looked at this entire catalog, not a very long one but with a lot of variety and live albums and recordings out there with all the jams and solos the musicians in the band created, I love the mellow music they do and the heavy music they do. I adore to death everything about it, I love Al’s phrasing & the dangerous nature of his shredding. Chick Corea is such an awesome composer and can really tell a story through a composition. Lenny White’s incredible monster drumming is so powerful, fiery & explosive, with Stanley being such a tight and direct bass player. Those two work really well as a rhythm section. I love Coreas Keyboard playing and like the whole fantasy/medieval world he makes with the tunes. Return To Forever never ceases to blow me away. The main reason I think they’re in here is because I have no problem with any of their albums and pretty much all of those records, I would listen to one on any given day and think yeah that’s got to be in my top list of favourite albums of all time.
Thanks for these in-depth album reviews and undertaking the highly non-trivial task of ranking them! I follow your list 100% except that I cannot elevate Romantic Warrior above Hymn of the Seventh Galaxy and Where Have I Known You Before. When I want that RTF experience, these two are always the ones I go back to first. I would put WHIKYB at the top, for its elements of surprise, inventive writing, and venturing into all sorts of musical idioms with seemingly effortless mastery. But HOTSG is also remarkable in every way, not least because of Bill Connors. Not to diminish Al Dimeola, but Connors takes a very different approach and really lays into the core feeling of these tracks almost like a horn player would do. For me both these albums are a total experience that just keeps on building until the end, and I'm glad you mentioned those final blow-out tracks The Game Maker and Pharaoh Kings (where I love those hornlike synthi-organ lead lines). When Romantic Warrior came out on Columbia I was delighted to finally hear the band with far better sound, with brilliant compositions and stunningly virtuosic playing, almost more akin to a classical recording than a jazz-rock album, although it doesn't lack the jazz-rock and even funky elements, as you pointed out. It's just so pristine and flawless that again it's almost like listening to a different band. Chick Corea seemed to be able to constantly re-invent himself, but his ventures into fusion with these RTF albums represent for me a high water mark of the genre.
That's a hard question because the first two albums are of one concept; a lot more classic. Woodwinds. I have to say I liked Bill Connors on guitar on 'Hymn.." album. But my favorite is the one with the short songs 'No Mystery'. They are almost pop songs. Jungle Waterfall", "Sofistifunk", "Dayride"; even "Flight of the Newborn" with the staggering guitar solo is pretty straightforward. I always feel that DiMeola must have bought a new Wah pedal before this album because he jams it in at every chance.
I saw R to F live in various forms and I was blown away by the one with Bill Conners. Theme to the Mothership is my favourite song. What a range of styles from the first Album to Romantic Warrior. It would be great if there was one last R to F album as a tribute to Chick and band should be Bill Conners, Al DiMeola, Stanley Clarke and Lenny White. No keyboards, no one could replace Chick.
@@jazzpunk Yes I remember that album; cant recall it's title. SC got closer to Rock for a while. There was an album with Jeff Beck. Was that 'School Days'? I saw Stanley in NYC at the Garden with The New Barbarians. I am a huge Stonesfan; and the whole idea of Keith and Ronnie with Stanley Clarke sounded daring. But as much I wanted to love it - it was a f*kin mess, haha..
So ten minutes ago I was reading an old Mojo magazine from the 1990s, and specifically an bit about Al Di Meola. And Return to Forever was mentioned. Then I get on TH-cam and the first suggested video on upper left is this video of Andy's on Return to Forever. That's a coincidence. It's not like I was reading about The Beetles, of which videos are plentiful.
I got into RTF through The Romantic Warrior. A great album, and getting into RTF in the 70s got me into some of their other music. I had Hymn of the 7th Galaxy as well as Lenny White's solo album Venusian Summer. It is a different sound, but I do like the RTF pre-fusion albums, especially Light as a Feather. And I like the Latin sound Chick brought into a lot of his music. I also had an earlier Chick Corea album of piano music which was avante guarde and sounded abstract to me. It may not have sold, but I liked it very much. One final thing: though I like a lot of prog rock, I have never really liked ELP all that much. Maybe I don't like bands that lift a lot of classical pieces so much, I don't know. But one exception to this is the Renaissance album Prologue which I love. Anyway, I had an album by Keith Emerson's previous band Nice. When I listened to it, there was one cut that immediately caught my attention. It was their version of Bach's 3rd Brandenburg Concerto. I immediately went to a record store and bought the Academy of St. Martin in the Fields recording of all the Brandenburg concertos. It got me into classical music and I think I listened to the Nice album once after that.
My fav is with Bill Connors saw them in summer of 72 or 3 with Weather Report at Music Inn Lenox Mass and they were smoking hot! I dig all the other stuff but liked the vibe with Bill! Another topic to pursue. Brutal jazz rock!!
When I listen to Lenny White I really love his playing, but for some strange reason I never think of him when I think of the greatest drummers. Not sure why. I curious to know how much of Di Meola’s playing in RTF was written by Chick ? Anyone know?
One of my earliest gigs was. Return To Forever playing at The Rainbow Theatre in 1975. I was a mere 17 year old at the time. This was for me very advanced grown up music. I also saw Jean-Luc Ponty play around this time... Incidentally I love Sofistifunk. Listen to it on headphones with the volume turned up to the max.
Couldn't agree more. Romantic Warrior is just a brilliant combination of composition and playing. I do like Musicmagic more than most other people I admit.
Chick Corea's 1972 album "Return To Forever" on ECM was his best album ever! The second one with "Spain" was also excellent, but the first one was better...
Totally agree that RW has great production and I remember thinking that back in the day, even when played on an old radiogram. But I do think that this album lends itself to that. If you've got a typical fusion album with everybody thrashing and crashing away , then you're simply not going to get fantastic sound quality. For example, ECM recordings are generally sparse and simply recorded without the need for lots of compression and limiting. Here's an idea for a list Andy, especially now you've got a new turntable. A top ten list of prog and fusion albums with the best sound quality 😊. Just re-checked out Al's debut album, Land of the Midnight Sun.Very surprised to find it had Jaco, Stanley and Anthony Jackson on bass on various tracks 👍👍
The 4 albums with Bill Connors and Al Dimeola are all beautifull remastered and belongs to the very best sounding albums i ever have heard in my life on CD.
Well, you probably won't see this comment since its an old video, but i was actually wondering a similar thing about the first "disco-like" beat/function. But in regard to the amazing track Stones on the equally amazing Larry Coryell album Fairyland from 1971. Played by Bernard Purdie. Just a gnarly and dark tune but with this disco type beat. That combo of characteristics almost by default also evokes the notion of it being an accidental Zeuhl style, outside of Magma. On that note, i also wanted to comment on your view of Magma, which i can understand. I think they are a band which, similar to King Crimson or Primus for example, one has to hear before their mid 20s in order to get hooked by the spirit. Runs off leftover teenage testosterone, type band. Usually these type of groups lose their luster as the boy grows, mentally. But Magma has held strong for me in essence if not in album. What i mean is that most of their "classic" period album recordings didn't grab me enough to keep listening through the years. Live and Attahk were the ones that i wanted to listen to most with Udu Wudu a bit behind. Not great recordings, production or performances except for Live which soars. My forst take was that it was aping Mahavishnu Orchestra, but as I learned that Christian Vander was, concurrently and independently from McLaughlin, obssessed with Coltrane, i could see how similar sounds would evolve. Fortunately a few years after i got into Magma in the mid 90s, they made a comeback and became touring monsters until this day. I drove across the US to see them in San Francisco and LA on what i believe was their first US tour, in '99. I began to realize in the next 10 years when their live shows were well cataloged on youtube that their live show is massively better than their albums. Especially them performing their early 70s material. So uncommon for such an old band from the late 60s to have the fire increasing with age. I find myself watching performances from the last 15 years more than listening to their albums, because they are musch better. The exception being Emehntett re. This is one of my top ten favorite albums ever. Dark, smokey, epic, well composed and jammin hard. Funny that it took them until 2009 to finally record an album that matched their live shows. There is a DVD of the recording of this album that's pretty great. Anyway, in case you hadn't heard this perspective on Magma before, it might be something to check out.. Thanks
I ‘prefer their early stuff’ by a long mark. Romantic Warrior is a graceless attempt to out-ELP ELP. There I said it! Love Chick’s acoustic jazz though.
As far as I'm aware, as you note, no, the original "Hymn..." with Steve Gadd has yet to resurface. On another note, a live album from the 1983 tour would be welcome, it has more otherwise unrecorded music, at least by RTF (one track was done by Chick's Elektrik Band, and the other two on solo albums by White and Di Meola... and they didn't even play "Compadres" for some strange reason).
@@AndyEdwardsDrummer I checked the comments but the only one I see mentions live recordings - three tracks with Gadd and Mingo Lewis were included in a 1990s compilation but no studio recordings are available as far as I know. Bootlegs also exist of rare line-ups like one with Darryl Brown on drums (between Gadd and White) and with Earl Klugh on guitar (between Connors and DiMeola).
No Mystery is Al's first album with RTF. It's the 2nd of the classic progressive quartet lineup. The first had Bill Connors, which I know you knew. I think No Mystery is excellent. They do some excellent progressive Funk. The entire Celebration Suite might just be my all time favorite composition from the classic era of progressive Rock music. If I only had a couple hundred albums, that wouldn't be saying much, but I have nearly 10,000 albums and Celebration Suite is definitely in my top 5 progressive compositions if not the top.
@@AndyEdwardsDrummer My personal opinion; I can't choose between WHIKYB and RW as my favorite RTF album. HOTSG is fantastic as well, but a bit less refined. On a scale of 1-10 WHIKYB and RW are 10s, where HOTSG and NM are 9s. If you put a gun to my head and told me to name my top progressive artists, RTF and PFM are the top 2 progressive Rock music artists in my collection; but of course, music is a very personal thing and no two people have the same viewpoint. BTW, I'm really enjoying the various videos you have made sir.
@@AndyEdwardsDrummer D'OH ... that's what happens when you get real old; you forget stuff you once knew. You are correct sir that WHIKYB is the first album with Al, not as I erroneously stated NM. Don't get old Andy, it sux
Nice overview Andy. But your comments have sent me down what turned out to be a rather dark rabbit hole. A bit like yourself I was always rather diffident about Gayle Moran's contributions to Chicks music so I did a bit of research. First I discovered that she had recorded one solo album and there was one track on TH-cam. It was OK and her piano work was better than I expected. However I also stumbled across this effort - 'Space Jazz' by L. Ron Hubbard. Moran, Chick and Stanley ( among others ) appear on this masterpiece. Let me quote the blurb - "Space Jazz is an original musical form based on the recently developed Fairlight Computer Musical Instrument (Fairlight CMI). It marks the point where computer technology caught up with musicians. Space Jazz is the first real computer music that will appeal to mass public. It antiquates past music like the cathedral organ wiped away blowing on a blade of grass. Listeners are treated to the adventure and unexpected delights of discovering a totally new musical concept in this innovative album." Here's a link - th-cam.com/video/fdE1xH93k4A/w-d-xo.html I made it as far as 9.54 and challenge anyone to beat that heroic feat of endurance! RTF might never be the same for me again. 😬
wow, one to include in worst albums of all time, though there is some ok playing later on but only very short snippets - I didnt listen to the whole thing though, just skipped through so could easily have missed other nice moments however I seriously doubt it. As somene in the comments to it said - batshit crazy.🤪😵💫
@@terryjohnson5275 I actually went back and listened to the whole thing after I posted the original comment. There were a couple of brief spots where Chick and Stanley manfully step up and try to salvage something from the train wreck. They were just brief moments though and did nothing but throw the awfulness of the rest into sharp relief! There is a fair bit of unintentional hilarity, but if I had to sum it up in one word I think it would be 'delusional'. I feel a little bit guilty for steering people in the direction of this one Terry, but why should I suffer alone?😵💫
I'm definitely a fan of the latin band over the fusion band. I'd go with either of those first releases as my No1. Best fusion LP for me is probably Where Have I known You Before followed by Hymn then Romantic Warrior. Never cared for Musicmagic...
Tough call but I think my favorite RTF album would be Hymn of the Seventh Galaxy but I'm not really sure. Hey Andy before I forget, the other day I came across a classic orchestra version of Holdworth's Zarabeth. Search for "Allan Holdsworth's Zarabeth- Orchestral Arrangement". It's by a composer named. Kostas Rekleitis. BTW it seems like Holdworth hardly ever did Zarabeth live. I've searched for a live version of Zarabeth from Holdsworth and I can't seem to find any live versions.
It looks like the same composer did the same thing for another Holdworth tune. Search for "Allan Holdsworth's Distance vs Desire- Orchestral Arrangement"
My favourite JRF band. Those first two albums with Al playing on them were recorded in two days! That's why the production is kinda odd. Romantic Warrior was done in two weeks, which was luxury! Hence the amazing sounds and production.
The raised eyebrow on the mention of Chick Corea’s Scientology is hilarious given Andy’s mentions of Gurdjieff. Tho, it’s true the Fourth Way is deeper than Dianetics.
i feel no mystery the best RTF album. side one had great funk and rock. flight of the newborn is an awesome tune featuring al demiola . title cut no mystery is one of the most beautiful songs ever made...my fav RTF album
That album along with Zappa's overnigh sensation changed me musically...these albums were recorded to perfection...and jump off the vinyl with new life compared to what was around at the time....
Andy, you said recently (i can't remember which video), something was 'a little too ECM' - do you think anything at all that you've heard that's on ECM has value? I've heard a few good things on ECM - some of the Ralph Towner stuff, etc. Just if you feel like riffing on - thanks for a great show!
"MusicMagic" was an interesting listening moment for me. When I first heard it, I thought "why are they doing this"? After a while, I thought, "This is how Kenny G happened". This album is a parallel universe to "Romantic Warrior". They're both 6 songs, the title track is third, and the album covers look like how the music sounds. Looking back on it, I think Chick wanted to integrate what he was doing with his solo albums at the time (Leprechaun, My Spanish Heart, Mad Hatter) with a more mainstream pop sound. Unfortunately, some of the songs come across like a bad version of EWF meets Chicago.
When I finally got up the nerve to watch this, I was still sitting through it with my knuckles white from clenched fists. See, one of these albums is my desert island album. My first experience of RTF was from a bandmate in 1978 insisting that the rest of our little southern rock band check out his 8 track of Romantic Warrior. It changed the trajectory of my musical life. I bought all of this lineup's recordings. They couldn't do wrong. If there was something that didn't click with me, it was my shortcoming and I had to learn to catch up with them. I eventually heard them all and have to admit that I only disagree with one ranking - I would rank No Mystery higher. I finally got to see them in 2009 (?) in Atlanta GA.
The first time I saw RTF was just after Bill Conners left and before Al DiMeola joined up. The fill-in guitarist was Earl Klugh, a sort of George Benson type player. He did a fine job but lacked the fire of Bill or Al.
I consider Romantic Warrior as the most perfectly crafted „Bad Music“ Album ever. It is made of the Worst of both World. The Worlds being Jazz Rock and Prog Rock. I do know this is in no means an Original Idea. It is offered by a lot of Music Critics but I‘ll go with them.
Where have I known you before is their best album. Most solid all the way through. It’s unreal. One of the greatest albums of all time. Beyond the seventh galaxy is fucking amazing but just so inconsistent compared to WHIKYB
I agree with your rankings except I put Hymn to the Seventh Galaxy 1st. I always appreciated DiMeola's technical expertise but his solo's with RTF alway sounded like he was practicing arpeggio's and always felt that his solos were structured, not improvised. Connors had a raw, yes, bombastic, powerhouse electric guitar style that I loved. There are/were more Connors RTF "pirate" video recorded in 1973 in Germany that I found on the internet that, of course, were of poor quality where Connors was even more raw and unrestrained including a version of Captain Senor Mouse that will absolutely knock your socks off. Lastly, I agree with Music Magic being at the bottom of your list. You were being kind; I thought that album was atrocious and that the sum was less than parts.
I wrote out my ranking before watching this and what do you know, mine was the same as yours. As you say side 1 of No Mystery is good but totally overshadowed by what came before and just after and that includes side 2 - could Excerpt form the First Movement of Heavy Metal be the worst non vocal spoilt RTF track?. Theres some fantastic playing on Musicmagic however as I've said in previous comments, I'm not a fan of Gayle Moran's vocals - I'll give you that they are ok on the Mahavishnu and Leprechaun albums but on Musicmagic and the subsequent RTF Live - no, please dont. I love the RTF live 1977 album however the vocals by both Gayle and Stanley (why Stanley why?) drop that from a 5* to a 3.5*. As said in the comments below the audio on the RTF The Anthology from 2008 is an improvement - George Lamie waxes lyrical about how much better sounding Hymn is and he's spot on. Interestingly the album with the least tracks from it on the Anthology is no Mystery. As also said below there is a recording of RTF with Steve Gadd - 3 live tracks on 'Return To Forever Featuring Chick Corea - Return To The 7th Galaxy: The Anthology' snappy title , released on Verve in 1996.
Miles is way over hyped. He just couldn't hold his own with the really great jazz performers, so he went slow and boring. Chick went on to surpass anything Miles could dream of.
Seems I am the outsider here: I never liked Romantic Warrior and still cannot stand it - - too pretentious, too bombastic, overloaded with manic unison lines, definitely not one of my favourite RTF albums.
Bill Connor's contribution was abysmal.Weak,toneless and horrifically bad attack.Come on now,Al's playing is in a different sphere entirely.Heavy.subtle,accurate certainly but also full of soul.Some of rtf's finest tracks are on that album but are ruined by tentative,hesitant guitar playing.
@@AndyEdwardsDrummer I think Di meola is the hesitant one...Connors gave the music that attack and fire...i think chick wanted to orchestrate rather then improvise as he did with Bill....most people disagree with the statement about Al Dimeola being the man....lot of gnat notes..
Romantic Warrior: word that comes to mind is cheesy. Forgettable themes with lots o solos. Chick particularly sounds circusy on the synth (is that a word?).
I neglected to tell you that my 83 year old Mother enjoyed your Tea Biscuit Ranking and said that you are a “very nice man”.
I am
And very clean.
I graduated high school in 1971, L.A. My friend Tom Kingsley was a "rich kid" who followed me to Venice, California, where rent was cheap. I lived on the strand, the oceanfront, the BEACH for 120 bucks a month for a single (3 rooms including bathroom and kitchenette). Now it's...hold onto your hat...three thousand a month. L.A. houses a lot of evil real estate. Tom went to U.C.L.A., I went to work in Beverly Hills for a buck-fifty ($1.50) an hour. Tom moved a block away into a little house with a dirt yard. He called me up one Sunday and said "get over here!" and I did and he put Romantic Warrior on his Gerrard turntable and we smoked a doobie and life was excellent.
You go where no one else goes in covering music. Much respect bro.
Andy, I enjoyed your commentary. I am coming around to appreciate your sense of humour.
Beautifully done Saw RTF in 74 with Bill,incredible passionate concert He actually provided some wildness that the later incarnations lacked a little bit....but the writing was awesome nevertheless Maybe a show about what you called the strange career of Bill Connors he`s an interesting case for sure
They are still my favourite band of all time. I love all of their albums even Musicmagic. I also really like listening to the bootleg live recordings around 1976, some of those live versions they play I probably prefer to the studio as there’s just more energy. The recordings from Oslo & Paris are my favourites, just blazing perfection.
Your comment about ELP, RTF and bombasticness really hit the nail on the head. Romantic Warrior was my intro to RTF, and I was heavily into ELP at the time. I got to see a return of RTF in concert 1983?? - they were awesome. Especially like/liked Lenny White- also saw him with his band during the "Astral Pirates" tour. For much of the song "The Sorceress" HE DOES NOT USE HIS HANDS. Thank you for your TH-cam videos!!
my favourite jazz fusion band and i got all their albums on vinyl, as every jazz rock/fusion fan should. The very first one i bought back in the day was light as a feather, officially the first RTF album, it also introduced me to my all time favourite female jazz vocalist in Flora Purim. But the album that came out before that, titled Return to Forever and which is not officially part of the RTF catalogue, took over as my all time favourite. its mellow and less in your face, it transports me into another world. just magic.
I'm only 12 minutes into your video, Andy, but loved "Light as a Feather" as soon as I first heard it in the early 70's. I bought the following 2 or 3 albums but LaaF remained my favourite. I'll wait and see how you rate it.
Side story: I was with a mate in the Slug and Lettuce in Lewisham or Catford or somewhere near there, in the mid-70s and there was a good jazz combo, just electric piano and bass, playing jazz standards. Most people were just drinking and pretty much ignoring the band but I could hear that they were really good. At some point, the keyboard player asked if anyone had any requests, clearing expecting little response, so I said "Spain". The guy said something like "At last, someone who really knows his music" and played a great version even without drums.
Great memories!
I've been trying to find all their stuff on vinyl. So far I've found only Romantic Warrior used in excellent condition. Found the Circle album years ago as I am a big Anthony Braxton fan. The hunt continues!
First and foremost I appreciate your passion and knowledge of Chick Corea and Return To Forever. I really enjoyed those ranking videos made nearly two years ago. Each RTF album explored and expanded on elements of Rock and Funk. Stanley Clarke was very aware of Larry Graham (Sly & The Family Stone) and other musicians in Funk/Soul/Funk/Rock. Musicians play who they are and where they are musically. So naturally that comes across on No Mystery (which is one of my top favs) and Romantic Warrior. Just as RTF influenced Sting it also sparked the imagination of Prince. Funk was just as important to the band's sound as the Bill Evans influence heard in those beautiful intersections of Where Have I Known You Before. This version of the RTF had fans craving more of that 73-76 sound, fortunate for us those early solo albums by Lenny White, Stanley Clarke and Al Di Meola are of equal quality.
I enjoy watching your videos, you're a good presenter, Andy. Music sounds interesting, I'll look it up,
I am looking forward to your Jazz Fusion Vocals Lecture. I am not the greatest Fan of Jazz Rock nor Prog Rock but i really like what you have too say about those two Stiles.
For pure jazz-rock fusion mayhem, 'Romantic Warrior' would probably have to top the list, in part because the album is so well recorded and fully captures the dynamics that this RTF lineup was capable of. But I prefer the first Return to Forever album on ECM (under Chick Corea's name). This album is much less jazz-rock, but instead successfully manages a latin-jazz fusion in large part thanks to Airto Moreira and Flora Purim. Stanley Clarke and Joe Farrell of later RTF line-ups are on the album as well, but the sound floats peacefully rather than dive bombs you into submission like 'Romantic Warrior'.
Mayhem? But it's still controlled and structured at same time Almost classical
@@WELLBRAN Mayhem wasn't meant to denigrate RTF. Once you allow yourself to be drawn into the music it has a powerful clockwork logic. I loved 'Romantic Warrior' when it came out, as I did Weather Report, Jean Luc Ponty and others mining that whole vein. But I was in my 20s then, and back then it was always a matter of 'the heavier the better'. But if it hadn't been for fusion, it would have probably taken me longer to take the plunge into jazz...
@@onsenkuma1979 agree in that as coming from prog it was a natural draw to it and you could get it right away..did not have to think about it. Hymn of the 7th is mayhem more so..
@@WELLBRAN Oh the prog connection is there for sure. When I heard Lenny White's powerful drumming on 'Romantic Warrior' it
put me to mind of Alan White's work on 'Relayer', especially 'Sound Chaser'. Of course all that connected to Mahavishnu and Buddy Miles' drumming for McLaughlin on 'Devotion', and back to Tony Williams. The great thing about the music of that decade was that hearing something new always opened doors into whole bodies of unfamiliar music to explore...
@@onsenkuma1979 yep because they all listened to each other and we got connections to others work
‘brutal jazz rock, that’s what we love on this channel’. Amen!
Romantic Warrior! CLASSIC. Lenny's Baby Blue Gretsch Kit was perfectly recorded on Romantic Warrior. If you are a drummer like you and I are, Lenny's drums never sounded better. Stanley Clarke's playing on upright bass is stellar as well. I wore the grooves off that one in 1976. I caught Lenny's own band in 1977 in a place simply called The Barn. And, the venue was exactly that, a converted old Barn in upstate New York that held maybe around 100 people. I sat right up front and witnessed some extremely amazing playing not only by Lenny, but if memory serves me, Alex Blake on bass and "Captain Keyboards" Don Blackman. In fact the first 3 Lenny White solo albums Venusian Summer, Big City and adventures of The Astral Pirates are all noteworthy fusion releases by a drummer in the '70's. I don't think they sold nearly as well as Tony Williams Believe It, Harvey Mason's Marching In The Streets or Billy Cobham's Spectrum albums, but they are classic in my book.
People would ask how long it took to set up the snare sound and they would say half an hour ....they were shocked...other bands would spend half a day or more trying to subdue the snare....and it is a beautiful snare sound of Lenny White's.....well rounded but striking enough.
About chic's scientology. It was part of the reason Bill Connors quit RTF. I guess it didn't bother Stanley Clark (hell he got converted into scientology). Al Di Meola blames scientology for the breakup of RTF. I don't think Chic was able to recruit Lenny White.
As far as Chic's electric band I know it rubbed Scott Henderson the wrong way when he was with Chic's Electric Band. I guess it didn't bother Frank Gambale or some other members but I'm not really sure. It would be interesting to hear their opinions on this.
I saw this band with Steve Gadd on drums way back when they first started out. Yep, it was pretty good. Side note -- I met Steve Gadd a week earlier (didn't know who he was -- no one did back them) . He was playing in a lounge.
Many thanks, Andy, for another excellent review of the Return To Forever albums. Romantic Warrior was the first RTF album I bought and I was blown away by it and I later bought a Japanese SACD of it, where the recording has extraordinary clarity and range. Sadly, I agree with you that some of the other albums are let down by their recordings. I don't have "Hymn To The Seventh Galaxy" and will have to look into buying it. Finally, I have the greatest respect for Chick Corea as a musician and his technical prowess is quite amazing.
I was a HUGE RTF fan starting with Hymn of The Seventh Galaxy. I saw an ad for it in Melody Maker music paper, which was my music bible when I was a kid. I saw the classic lineup with Di Meola 5 times in their heyday. I was even at Carnegie Hall, front row center, when Di Meola played his first gig with the band at 19 years old. Without question, one of THEE premier fusion bands of all time.
You spoke for 41 mins and you said word for word everything that I ever thought about all these albums I'm 67 and I discovered return to forever in UK tv playing romantic Warrior...game changer from prog...so I had to back track on all these albums ..and you said it all...as I thought..all those years ago
INCREDIBLE in-depth reviews, Andy! Mega-kudos! Love, love, LOVE your long description of Hymn of the Seventh Galaxy!
My pleasure!
1- Romantic Warrior
2- Where Have I Know You Before
3- Return to Forever
4- No Mystery
5- Hymn of the Seventh Galaxy (Theme to the Mothership contains one of the BEST Keyboards solos of all time)
6- Light as a Feather
7- Musicmagic (The concert versions on the RTF double live are way better!)
Thanks to one of your other Jazz videos I have had a good listen to RTF and agree with your top three and now own them. Cheers Andy.
I’ll never get tired of this album. It’s incredible ❤
The audience may not, but drummers will notice the beautiful drumming of airto onthe title track of RTF 1972. Superb one the greats aided by perfect ECM production
Helloh, and welcome to this comment. Simply Brilliant Andy. Always enjoy the free form style of your videos as well as the topics. Keep pushing forwards. RTF RW #1 no question
Awesome! Thank you!
Wow! I totally agree with you on all selections.
The next album after Hymn of the Seventh Galaxy, the first thing I did after hearing the first cut was to read the album to see who was on guitar. The playing seemed similar. But the sound itself was a little different in
attack and pitch.
Thou it would be hard picking between Romantic Warrior and Hymn of the Seventh Galaxy. If it wasn't that the production sound of Romantic Warrior sounds as if it was recorded in an state of the art studio. While The Hymn of the Seventh Galaxy sound like it may have been recorded in an garage.
Love the channel, love your work!
There's a record label called Acoustic Sounds which works on some audiophile quality releases. Right now they're working on the Steely Dan catalog, for instance. You might try contacting them to see if you could get them interested in tracking down and re-releasing a quality version of _"Where Have I Known You Before"._
Pretty much agree with our choices. I do not own Music Magic but have all the others on Vinyl and some on CD. Romantic Warrior is pretty much Jazz Fusion perfection and the CD version is so damn good. The vinyl of Where Have I known you before sounds great but CD is poor. But I recommend you buy the double CD Anthology of Return to Forever from 2008. They have remastered the tracks, especially Hymn of the 7th Galaxy which sound so much better.
Well done Andy....not an easy topic to cover....as there are some real lows and also some of the best JazzRock ever.....
I know it is a live album but RETURNS has some of the definitive versions of classic RTF peices, for me, and is certainly helped by an awesome Lenny White drum sound. I am a huge Lenny fan, and at last he has a sound worthy of his immense talent!!!
70's RTF has to be RW but also Galaxy because of Billy !!!
Yes that live album is peneomenol. If I included live albums then it opens the door to a lot of confusion because of the Musicmagic live album and the Ponty Gambale line-up. I thought it best to keep to studio
Thoroughly enjoyable vid, of the kind where your knowledge and enthusiasm shine through. Sufficiently inspirational that I sense a return to forever weekend, despite them being a weird one for me. I had your first and last choices on vinyl bought within weeks of each other back in 1981 and I actually preferred two other purchases from the same period …. Tin drum by Japan and product by brand x. Romantic warrior does sound like they’ve been listening to ELP and music magic does have extreme highs and lows between songs and sections of songs I totally agree.
Talking of brand x, would love to see an overview of them by yourself as they get an unjust deal in general largely based on the fact that they were a British band as best I can see. I’ve seen disparaging comments on some of their stuff relative to the big American bands but I can’t hear it. Mike Clarke himself said that when he played with them he had to insist on charts as he found it so complex.
Anyway,( and despite my inability to capitalise and punctuate correctly due to my phone screen playing up), I commend you on another great vid
Wish you liked funk and soul dude the way they influenced prog is so interesting and beautiful
Where have I known you before. That was my introduction to RTF. I was in my family’s basement in NYC, listening to WRVR ( a moment of silence please ) , the DJ Les Davis puts stylus to disc and for the next few minutes I was taken away to a place I’d never knew existed. My buddy Eddie was there with me, we were on our way to play basketball. We could not freaking move ! What was this music, who were th guys and where had they been all my young life ? I was raised listening to Big Band like Basie, Duke, Lunceford……..the bebop of Dizzy, Trane, Mingus Byrd…….the old Gospel hymns of Mahalia, the Motown sound was ever present in Brooklyn, Classical……..Beatles , Stones, Sly……….Santana……but I’d finally found something to call my own after the death of Jimi…….RTF was the most influential jazz band for young musicians in the early 70’s…….only Weather Report could hang with them. I’m a huge Tony William Lifetime fan, Holdsworth is my favorite fusion guitarist, but RTF was the beginning and end of the conversation. Now…….even though Al D is on more recordings, Bill Conners is my favorite guitarist of the two. His work on this and Stanley’s Lopsy Lu is phenomenal ! I heard RTF “ Live “ on WRVR’s Monday night show from The Village Gate, recorded it on a cheap .99 cent tape ! I’d kill to find that tape now 50 years later. You guys can search on TH-cam and a few of the live fusion concerts are here. I’ve heard Mahavishnu , RTF, Stanley , Cobham and others . Not great recordings but nice to hear decades later. Thanks for your in-depth review brother. I’m a fan forever 😎
When I started to really absorb music around 13 years old, I started out as a Heavy Metal & a Hard Rock kid with bands like Led Zeppelin, AC/DC, Iron Maiden, Metallica, Thin Lizzy. Then I moved towards more obscure bands like Steely Dan, Yes, Focus, Frank Zappa & The Mothers. Then when I was 17 years old I discover a genre called Jazz Fusion which completely changed my life and the bands from that genre that really helped define my taste. But the band that blew me away when I heard that first note from them was Return To Forever.
You knew it might have been coming because of my profile picture but they are my favourite band of all time. I have only allowed myself to have one favourite RTF album, I could have easily just filled it up with all of their albums. The Romantic Warrior is my all time favourite album & if I could only have one album on a desert island it would be that one. I took a good long think about this question & I love the whole discography. I like the first couple Latin albums with Flora Purim. I adore the rawness & the variety of the early heavy Fusion albums. Their last studio album Musicmagic not so much but the live albums that they recorded just before they disbanded in 1978 are great. I also really like the Bill Connors era with RTF in 1973, I adore all the albums with Al Di Meola. Where Have I Known You Before is fantastic, No Mystery just a little bit lower in my ranking but side two of that album is beautiful. Of course Romantic Warrior is their masterpiece. Also all of their bootleg live recordings in 1976 are just amazing, I would have loved if they made an official live album during the Romantic Warrior tour, & even their reunion album Returns from 2008 is still really enjoyable.
Overall when I looked at this entire catalog, not a very long one but with a lot of variety and live albums and recordings out there with all the jams and solos the musicians in the band created, I love the mellow music they do and the heavy music they do. I adore to death everything about it, I love Al’s phrasing & the dangerous nature of his shredding. Chick Corea is such an awesome composer and can really tell a story through a composition. Lenny White’s incredible monster drumming is so powerful, fiery & explosive, with Stanley being such a tight and direct bass player. Those two work really well as a rhythm section. I love Coreas Keyboard playing and like the whole fantasy/medieval world he makes with the tunes. Return To Forever never ceases to blow me away. The main reason I think they’re in here is because I have no problem with any of their albums and pretty much all of those records, I would listen to one on any given day and think yeah that’s got to be in my top list of favourite albums of all time.
Thanks for these in-depth album reviews and undertaking the highly non-trivial task of ranking them! I follow your list 100% except that I cannot elevate Romantic Warrior above Hymn of the Seventh Galaxy and Where Have I Known You Before. When I want that RTF experience, these two are always the ones I go back to first. I would put WHIKYB at the top, for its elements of surprise, inventive writing, and venturing into all sorts of musical idioms with seemingly effortless mastery. But HOTSG is also remarkable in every way, not least because of Bill Connors. Not to diminish Al Dimeola, but Connors takes a very different approach and really lays into the core feeling of these tracks almost like a horn player would do. For me both these albums are a total experience that just keeps on building until the end, and I'm glad you mentioned those final blow-out tracks The Game Maker and Pharaoh Kings (where I love those hornlike synthi-organ lead lines). When Romantic Warrior came out on Columbia I was delighted to finally hear the band with far better sound, with brilliant compositions and stunningly virtuosic playing, almost more akin to a classical recording than a jazz-rock album, although it doesn't lack the jazz-rock and even funky elements, as you pointed out. It's just so pristine and flawless that again it's almost like listening to a different band. Chick Corea seemed to be able to constantly re-invent himself, but his ventures into fusion with these RTF albums represent for me a high water mark of the genre.
That's a hard question because the first two albums are of one concept; a lot more classic. Woodwinds.
I have to say I liked Bill Connors on guitar on 'Hymn.." album.
But my favorite is the one with the short songs 'No Mystery'. They are almost pop songs. Jungle Waterfall", "Sofistifunk", "Dayride"; even "Flight of the Newborn" with the staggering guitar solo is pretty straightforward. I always feel that DiMeola must have bought a new Wah pedal before this album because he jams it in at every chance.
I saw R to F live in various forms and I was blown away by the one with Bill Conners. Theme to the Mothership is my favourite song. What a range of styles from the first Album to Romantic Warrior. It would be great if there was one last R to F album as a tribute to Chick and band should be Bill Conners, Al DiMeola, Stanley Clarke and Lenny White. No keyboards, no one could replace Chick.
NO MYSTERY was one of my very 1st Jazz Fusion LPs...paired nicely with STANLEY CLARKE (the LP with "Lopsy Lu").
@@jazzpunk Yes I remember that album; cant recall it's title. SC got closer to Rock for a while. There was an album with Jeff Beck. Was that 'School Days'? I saw Stanley in NYC at the Garden with The New Barbarians. I am a huge Stonesfan; and the whole idea of Keith and Ronnie with Stanley Clarke sounded daring. But as much I wanted to love it - it was a f*kin mess, haha..
@@palacerevolution2000 JOURNEY TO LOVE has Jeff Beck on 2 cuts..."Hello Jeff" + the title track's solo.
@@jazzpunk Lopsy Lu, man I wore that track out. That track turned many people on to fusion and funk.
So ten minutes ago I was reading an old Mojo magazine from the 1990s, and specifically an bit about Al Di Meola. And Return to Forever was mentioned. Then I get on TH-cam and the first suggested video on upper left is this video of Andy's on Return to Forever. That's a coincidence. It's not like I was reading about The Beetles, of which videos are plentiful.
I got into RTF through The Romantic Warrior. A great album, and getting into RTF in the 70s got me into some of their other music. I had Hymn of the 7th Galaxy as well as Lenny White's solo album Venusian Summer. It is a different sound, but I do like the RTF pre-fusion albums, especially Light as a Feather. And I like the Latin sound Chick brought into a lot of his music. I also had an earlier Chick Corea album of piano music which was avante guarde and sounded abstract to me. It may not have sold, but I liked it very much.
One final thing: though I like a lot of prog rock, I have never really liked ELP all that much. Maybe I don't like bands that lift a lot of classical pieces so much, I don't know. But one exception to this is the Renaissance album Prologue which I love. Anyway, I had an album by Keith Emerson's previous band Nice. When I listened to it, there was one cut that immediately caught my attention. It was their version of Bach's 3rd Brandenburg Concerto. I immediately went to a record store and bought the Academy of St. Martin in the Fields recording of all the Brandenburg concertos. It got me into classical music and I think I listened to the Nice album once after that.
My fav is with Bill Connors saw them in summer of 72 or 3 with Weather Report at Music Inn Lenox Mass and they were smoking hot! I dig all the other stuff but liked the vibe with Bill! Another topic to pursue. Brutal jazz rock!!
I have done a brutal jazz fusion top twenty
Romantic Warrior is an amazing Jazz Fusion album, to me one of the best albums ever.
When I listen to Lenny White I really love his playing, but for some strange reason I never think of him when I think of the greatest drummers. Not sure why.
I curious to know how much of Di Meola’s playing in RTF was written by Chick ?
Anyone know?
One of my earliest gigs was. Return To Forever playing at The Rainbow Theatre in 1975. I was a mere 17 year old at the time. This was for me very advanced grown up music. I also saw Jean-Luc Ponty play around this time... Incidentally I love Sofistifunk. Listen to it on headphones with the volume turned up to the max.
Couldn't agree more. Romantic Warrior is just a brilliant combination of composition and playing. I do like Musicmagic more than most other people I admit.
“Takes your face off” is the best characterization of great music, period.
JS Bach used to mutter it before he opened up all the organ stops...😁
Chick Corea's 1972 album "Return To Forever" on ECM was his best album ever! The second one with "Spain" was also excellent, but the first one was better...
I love “seagull” album too. It’s special.
I listened to Romantic Warrior for the first time a few days ago and my god does it absolutely slap. What an incredible sounding album. Pristine.
Your first subscriber from Lebanon(?)
Totally agree that RW has great production and I remember thinking that back in the day, even when played on an old radiogram. But I do think that this album lends itself to that. If you've got a typical fusion album with everybody thrashing and crashing away , then you're simply not going to get fantastic sound quality. For example, ECM recordings are generally sparse and simply recorded without the need for lots of compression and limiting. Here's an idea for a list Andy, especially now you've got a new turntable. A top ten list of prog and fusion albums with the best sound quality 😊. Just re-checked out Al's debut album, Land of the Midnight Sun.Very surprised to find it had Jaco, Stanley and Anthony Jackson on bass on various tracks 👍👍
Oh man I actually enjoy her vocals on this album. Love this album
I love the Romantic Warrior album, but oddly enough, have never really tried the rest of the catalog. Now I know which two to check out next. Thank you, Mr. Edwards!
Cheers from Noo Yawk, ova heyah!
“Rock Out & Prog On! ©️DSB, Inc.
🤘🐸🤘 Frog On!
The 4 albums with Bill Connors and Al Dimeola are all beautifull remastered and belongs to the very best sounding albums i ever have heard in my life on CD.
I wait for you to do the Electric band !
Well, you probably won't see this comment since its an old video, but i was actually wondering a similar thing about the first "disco-like" beat/function. But in regard to the amazing track Stones on the equally amazing Larry Coryell album Fairyland from 1971. Played by Bernard Purdie. Just a gnarly and dark tune but with this disco type beat. That combo of characteristics almost by default also evokes the notion of it being an accidental Zeuhl style, outside of Magma.
On that note, i also wanted to comment on your view of Magma, which i can understand. I think they are a band which, similar to King Crimson or Primus for example, one has to hear before their mid 20s in order to get hooked by the spirit. Runs off leftover teenage testosterone, type band. Usually these type of groups lose their luster as the boy grows, mentally. But Magma has held strong for me in essence if not in album. What i mean is that most of their "classic" period album recordings didn't grab me enough to keep listening through the years. Live and Attahk were the ones that i wanted to listen to most with Udu Wudu a bit behind. Not great recordings, production or performances except for Live which soars. My forst take was that it was aping Mahavishnu Orchestra, but as I learned that Christian Vander was, concurrently and independently from McLaughlin, obssessed with Coltrane, i could see how similar sounds would evolve.
Fortunately a few years after i got into Magma in the mid 90s, they made a comeback and became touring monsters until this day. I drove across the US to see them in San Francisco and LA on what i believe was their first US tour, in '99. I began to realize in the next 10 years when their live shows were well cataloged on youtube that their live show is massively better than their albums. Especially them performing their early 70s material. So uncommon for such an old band from the late 60s to have the fire increasing with age. I find myself watching performances from the last 15 years more than listening to their albums, because they are musch better.
The exception being Emehntett re. This is one of my top ten favorite albums ever. Dark, smokey, epic, well composed and jammin hard. Funny that it took them until 2009 to finally record an album that matched their live shows. There is a DVD of the recording of this album that's pretty great. Anyway, in case you hadn't heard this perspective on Magma before, it might be something to check out.. Thanks
That’s a hard one because of so many different styles.
I ‘prefer their early stuff’ by a long mark. Romantic Warrior is a graceless attempt to out-ELP ELP. There I said it! Love Chick’s acoustic jazz though.
As far as I'm aware, as you note, no, the original "Hymn..." with Steve Gadd has yet to resurface. On another note, a live album from the 1983 tour would be welcome, it has more otherwise unrecorded music, at least by RTF (one track was done by Chick's Elektrik Band, and the other two on solo albums by White and Di Meola... and they didn't even play "Compadres" for some strange reason).
The elusive Gadd RTF session! Check out comment below
@@AndyEdwardsDrummer I checked the comments but the only one I see mentions live recordings - three tracks with Gadd and Mingo Lewis were included in a 1990s compilation but no studio recordings are available as far as I know. Bootlegs also exist of rare line-ups like one with Darryl Brown on drums (between Gadd and White) and with Earl Klugh on guitar (between Connors and DiMeola).
7th galaxy. 1st romantic warrior 2nd. The rest 3rd.❤
No Mystery is Al's first album with RTF. It's the 2nd of the classic progressive quartet lineup. The first had Bill Connors, which I know you knew. I think No Mystery is excellent. They do some excellent progressive Funk. The entire Celebration Suite might just be my all time favorite composition from the classic era of progressive Rock music. If I only had a couple hundred albums, that wouldn't be saying much, but I have nearly 10,000 albums and Celebration Suite is definitely in my top 5 progressive compositions if not the top.
What about 'Where Have I Known You Before'?
@@AndyEdwardsDrummer My personal opinion; I can't choose between WHIKYB and RW as my favorite RTF album. HOTSG is fantastic as well, but a bit less refined. On a scale of 1-10 WHIKYB and RW are 10s, where HOTSG and NM are 9s. If you put a gun to my head and told me to name my top progressive artists, RTF and PFM are the top 2 progressive Rock music artists in my collection; but of course, music is a very personal thing and no two people have the same viewpoint. BTW, I'm really enjoying the various videos you have made sir.
@@AndyEdwardsDrummer D'OH ... that's what happens when you get real old; you forget stuff you once knew. You are correct sir that WHIKYB is the first album with Al, not as I erroneously stated NM. Don't get old Andy, it sux
A lowly small you-tuber! Ha! Great insight and perhaps esoteric to many, but lofty and vast musical appreciation!
Thank you kindly!
Nice overview Andy. But your comments have sent me down what turned out to be a rather dark rabbit hole. A bit like yourself I was always rather diffident about Gayle Moran's contributions to Chicks music so I did a bit of research. First I discovered that she had recorded one solo album and there was one track on TH-cam. It was OK and her piano work was better than I expected. However I also stumbled across this effort - 'Space Jazz' by L. Ron Hubbard. Moran, Chick and Stanley ( among others ) appear on this masterpiece. Let me quote the blurb -
"Space Jazz is an original musical form based on the recently developed Fairlight Computer Musical Instrument (Fairlight CMI). It marks the point where computer technology caught up with musicians. Space Jazz is the first real computer music that will appeal to mass public. It antiquates past music like the cathedral organ wiped away blowing on a blade of grass. Listeners are treated to the adventure and unexpected delights of discovering a totally new musical concept in this innovative album."
Here's a link - th-cam.com/video/fdE1xH93k4A/w-d-xo.html
I made it as far as 9.54 and challenge anyone to beat that heroic feat of endurance! RTF might never be the same for me again. 😬
Yesm Gayle nade an album in 79 arranged in part by Chick.It's actually quite pleasant. I will check out Space Jazz...
wow, one to include in worst albums of all time, though there is some ok playing later on but only very short snippets - I didnt listen to the whole thing though, just skipped through so could easily have missed other nice moments however I seriously doubt it. As somene in the comments to it said - batshit crazy.🤪😵💫
@@terryjohnson5275 I actually went back and listened to the whole thing after I posted the original comment. There were a couple of brief spots where Chick and Stanley manfully step up and try to salvage something from the train wreck. They were just brief moments though and did nothing but throw the awfulness of the rest into sharp relief! There is a fair bit of unintentional hilarity, but if I had to sum it up in one word I think it would be 'delusional'.
I feel a little bit guilty for steering people in the direction of this one Terry, but why should I suffer alone?😵💫
@@devereauxclandestine1272 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I'm definitely a fan of the latin band over the fusion band. I'd go with either of those first releases as my No1.
Best fusion LP for me is probably Where Have I known You Before followed by Hymn then Romantic Warrior. Never cared for Musicmagic...
Romantic Warrior no 1
Tough call but I think my favorite RTF album would be Hymn of the Seventh Galaxy but I'm not really sure.
Hey Andy before I forget, the other day I came across a classic orchestra version of Holdworth's Zarabeth. Search for "Allan Holdsworth's Zarabeth- Orchestral Arrangement". It's by a composer named. Kostas Rekleitis.
BTW it seems like Holdworth hardly ever did Zarabeth live. I've searched for a live version of Zarabeth from Holdsworth and I can't seem to find any live versions.
It looks like the same composer did the same thing for another Holdworth tune. Search for "Allan Holdsworth's Distance vs Desire- Orchestral Arrangement"
Romantic Warrior was the first Jazz album I bought.
Do you think Sketches of Spain by Miles Davis influenced them.
Not directly. I think the real influence on that was Yes
My favourite JRF band.
Those first two albums with Al playing on them were recorded in two days! That's why the production is kinda odd. Romantic Warrior was done in two weeks, which was luxury! Hence the amazing sounds and production.
The raised eyebrow on the mention of Chick Corea’s Scientology is hilarious given Andy’s mentions of Gurdjieff. Tho, it’s true the Fourth Way is deeper than Dianetics.
There is also Live album "The Musician" but as you say the vocals are a bit naff but solos are great
i feel no mystery the best RTF album. side one had great funk and rock. flight of the newborn is an awesome tune featuring al demiola . title cut no mystery is one of the most beautiful songs ever made...my fav RTF album
That album along with Zappa's overnigh sensation changed me musically...these albums were recorded to perfection...and jump off the vinyl with new life compared to what was around at the time....
Sofistifunk side one is so godamn good.
Andy, you said recently (i can't remember which video), something was 'a little too ECM' - do you think anything at all that you've heard that's on ECM has value? I've heard a few good things on ECM - some of the Ralph Towner stuff, etc. Just if you feel like riffing on - thanks for a great show!
I really like ECM. Check the video on ECM
ECM vinyl was some of the best recorded music of the 70's.....the German vinyl discs were of superior quality both sound wise and product quality...
"MusicMagic" was an interesting listening moment for me. When I first heard it, I thought "why are they doing this"? After a while, I thought, "This is how Kenny G happened". This album is a parallel universe to "Romantic Warrior". They're both 6 songs, the title track is third, and the album covers look like how the music sounds. Looking back on it, I think Chick wanted to integrate what he was doing with his solo albums at the time (Leprechaun, My Spanish Heart, Mad Hatter) with a more mainstream pop sound. Unfortunately, some of the songs come across like a bad version of EWF meets Chicago.
Stanley Clarke's "Children of Forever" also a great one!
Lenny Whites astral pirates, big city and venusian summer are really good
I would like to announce that I have all of these albums...yay me
When I finally got up the nerve to watch this, I was still sitting through it with my knuckles white from clenched fists. See, one of these albums is my desert island album. My first experience of RTF was from a bandmate in 1978 insisting that the rest of our little southern rock band check out his 8 track of Romantic Warrior. It changed the trajectory of my musical life. I bought all of this lineup's recordings. They couldn't do wrong. If there was something that didn't click with me, it was my shortcoming and I had to learn to catch up with them. I eventually heard them all and have to admit that I only disagree with one ranking - I would rank No Mystery higher. I finally got to see them in 2009 (?) in Atlanta GA.
Chick Corea married Gayle Moran and he got her work on this album and wrecked it.
Chick was playing the wrong organ...amazing what paths the dick can steer a man.
I wonder what, back in the 1970s, before Return To Forever, someone had told Chick about Xenu, what would have happened... ;-)
Can you elaborate on fairy folk and leprechauns? 😊
Like no mystery more than music magic or romantic warrior
The first time I saw RTF was just after Bill Conners left and before Al DiMeola joined up. The fill-in guitarist was Earl Klugh, a sort of George Benson type player. He did a fine job but lacked the fire of Bill or Al.
I consider Romantic Warrior as the most perfectly crafted „Bad Music“ Album ever. It is made of the Worst of both World. The Worlds being Jazz Rock and Prog Rock.
I do know this is in no means an Original Idea. It is offered by a lot of Music Critics but I‘ll go with them.
Return To Forever: The Anthology on cd is so much better sound than the Polydor albums.
Where have I known you before is their best album. Most solid all the way through. It’s unreal. One of the greatest albums of all time. Beyond the seventh galaxy is fucking amazing but just so inconsistent compared to WHIKYB
The reason it’s so great is it’s production that is emblematic of the time and studio
I've tried to watch a couple of videos on youtube of their OGWT appearances but gave up each time because I found them incredibly tedious.
I agree with your rankings except I put Hymn to the Seventh Galaxy 1st. I always appreciated DiMeola's technical expertise but his solo's with RTF alway sounded like he was practicing arpeggio's and always felt that his solos were structured, not improvised. Connors had a raw, yes, bombastic, powerhouse electric guitar style that I loved. There are/were more Connors RTF "pirate" video recorded in 1973 in Germany that I found on the internet that, of course, were of poor quality where Connors was even more raw and unrestrained including a version of Captain Senor Mouse that will absolutely knock your socks off. Lastly, I agree with Music Magic being at the bottom of your list. You were being kind; I thought that album was atrocious and that the sum was less than parts.
Also Stanley Clark's solo will "melt your face!"
Bill Conners > Al DeMeola. There I’ve said it. I know y’all were thinking it.
I wrote out my ranking before watching this and what do you know, mine was the same as yours.
As you say side 1 of No Mystery is good but totally overshadowed by what came before and just after and that includes side 2 - could Excerpt form the First Movement of Heavy Metal be the worst non vocal spoilt RTF track?. Theres some fantastic playing on Musicmagic however as I've said in previous comments, I'm not a fan of Gayle Moran's vocals - I'll give you that they are ok on the Mahavishnu and Leprechaun albums but on Musicmagic and the subsequent RTF Live - no, please dont. I love the RTF live 1977 album however the vocals by both Gayle and Stanley (why Stanley why?) drop that from a 5* to a 3.5*.
As said in the comments below the audio on the RTF The Anthology from 2008 is an improvement - George Lamie waxes lyrical about how much better sounding Hymn is and he's spot on. Interestingly the album with the least tracks from it on the Anthology is no Mystery.
As also said below there is a recording of RTF with Steve Gadd - 3 live tracks on 'Return To Forever Featuring Chick Corea - Return To The 7th Galaxy: The Anthology' snappy title , released on Verve in 1996.
Gayle moran was good on the mad hatter
Goodbye Mickey mouse, what does that even mean? Hahaha
Miles is way over hyped. He just couldn't hold his own with the really great jazz performers, so he went slow and boring. Chick went on to surpass anything Miles could dream of.
absolutely not true. Miles played trumpet with Charlie Parker when he was 21 years old. You have to be a virtuoso to do that
Really don’t love Lenny whites two fist albums
The tweeness
For a taste of Steve Gadd and Mingo Lewis with RTF - th-cam.com/video/nKyKhn1v9Dc/w-d-xo.html
Wow...Gadd and RTF...it sounds like it would have been incredible. Thabnks for finding this
@@AndyEdwardsDrummer Here's one more (FM broadcast) - th-cam.com/video/BilACgKaZOw/w-d-xo.html
Seems I am the outsider here: I never liked Romantic Warrior and still cannot stand it - - too pretentious, too bombastic, overloaded with manic unison lines, definitely not one of my favourite RTF albums.
Bill Connor's contribution was abysmal.Weak,toneless and horrifically bad attack.Come on now,Al's playing is in a different sphere entirely.Heavy.subtle,accurate certainly but also full of soul.Some of rtf's finest tracks are on that album but are ruined by tentative,hesitant guitar playing.
I just don't agree. And I'm not the only one. See below
BullConnora sounds like strings are too tight!
@@AndyEdwardsDrummer I think Di meola is the hesitant one...Connors gave the music that attack and fire...i think chick wanted to orchestrate rather then improvise as he did with Bill....most people disagree with the statement about Al Dimeola being the man....lot of gnat notes..
Romantic Warrior: word that comes to mind is cheesy. Forgettable themes with lots o solos. Chick particularly sounds circusy on the synth (is that a word?).
I can’t put into words how much I hated “Musicmagic”!!! What a misguided project!!!
I have a Maynard Fergusen album where he plays La Fiesta.