We all know that Lizzie is the one for Thomas but you and him aren't ready for this conversation. Also, he doesn't deserve her. But I can't help shipp them.
Yup! And that makes her a true queen to me. Even after all the thing's she's been through, she's still willing to love. She still has a warm heart for a boy who needs a mother - even if it's not hers.
@@ohmygod_rickey I love Tommy however I do agree with the original comment that she deserves to be with someone who loves her just as much as she loves him and doesn't constantly imagine his ex is there.
@@ohmygod_rickey It’s messed up but I think she did that to stick around Tommy. I think she has always loved Tommy, but I think she felt like she could be more to John. Idk... I was disappointed when she failed Tommy’s test. But I also think she was in a different spot in her life and was desperate for security. At the same time Tommy let her down too.. She’s earned her position. She’s been loyal and trustworthy to the family..
@@ashleyprice4138 Nah she chose to fail that test because Marrying a Shelby would get her more money than a few bucks so it wasn't about money , she wanted to sleep with tommy because she always loved him.
@@ohmygod_rickey yes too good. She failed the test coz she was still poor at that time and needed the money to survive that's why when tom offered her the money, she took it!
He needs Lizzie because he needs someone who will never say NO to him. He needs her for Charlie, for his son to have a “normal” family to grow up in, someone who he can call his when he needs to feel complete or the idea that a man has a wife. He sees Lizzie as someone who fills in any void he has in his life no matter how misplaced she may be. She’s a generic aubstitute to anyone or anything. That is self-love and never a genuine love for someone. Really.
Agreed. In the beginning the jokes they made about her were horrible. Like they never intended on her having much of a future role. Then she sat around waiting for whenever Tommy wanted her. This last season they gave her a few scenes where she challenged Tommy more but that lasted about 2 seconds. The relationship between Lizzie and Tommy isn’t really a love story. In fact I don’t think he ever once told her he loves her. Eh we will see what happens next season. But writers have said Tommy isn’t someone really meant to be happy, that’s why they killed off Grace after what seems like two days after their wedding. Though they were together the years leading up to the wedding.
Jerfesson Pedro I think you’re right. She is someone he knows and can trust. She helps take care of not only their daughter but his son with Grace. I think we’ve seen that isn’t something he’s capable of doing in this last season. I can see why he’d want that. It was the writing in the first season that everyone had a laugh at her expense. But I don’t always like how Knight writes female characters.
@@Collins1118 It was like against all odds. He was not meant to be happy, as it is what it is. No one would grant you happiness if you've fucked up hundredths of lives on your palms. I actually agree on the plot of killing Grace because it serves the right justice of all the wicked schemes of Tommy. He was really not meant for happiness since when he was born for being a peaky blinders.
Tommy once said to Grace, I need you. He also hadn't seen Grace for years after she left. Lizzie has always been there for Tommy and always will. That's why he doesn't appreciate her. He's never afraid of what might happen to her...until Oswald appeared. Hopefully he will snap and realize the woman who's always been there for him. She truly gave up everything for him. I hope season 6 or 7, ends with Tommy realizing family is the most important thing and not his wild ambitions. Maybe he almost loses Lizzie, a thought that never crossed his mind before. And then realizes how much she meant to him.
I feel like Tommy always had a little soft spot for Lizzie. Yes he loved Grace but Lizzie’s the person he always seems to go back to no matter how many women came into his life. I think he is in love with her but doesn’t realize or just doesn’t let himself fully love her
@@karolinyherzog8641 Lizzie was clearly someone he loved...but not on a romantic level as with Grace. He was in love and loved Grace very much. Lizzie was his friend, confidant, wife, good person, good mother and he knew all of this. Even though she was a hooker, he still never mistreated her. But Lizzie was his safe choice.
I’ll be honest and a lot of people probably will hate me for it: I can’t stand Grace and even though she was Tommy’s “love of his life” she didn’t fit as his partner. She lied and betrayed him and I will never understand why the writers just made him forgive her. She constantly wanted to change Tommy and ugh. I’m honestly routing more for Lizzie and it breaks my heart how Tommy often treats her. I hope they will make Tommy realize what he has in her at some point before the end. Or give Lizzie someone that is willing to love her how she is and make her truly happy.
fr tho I understand what your saying but grace was the love of his life. Lizzie may not be grace but she is for damn shore her own women and I kind of do ship Lizzie with tom more than grace with tom
He did....but he didn't really spend a lot of time with her, and even in the short time they were married, you could see her manipulating both him and Polly. Plus, she made him feel inadequate and worthless. So, imo, if she'd actually lived, the infatuation would've worn off, and it wouldn't have lasted. Lizzie accepts him for who he is, and frankly, is too good for him.
@@RameshSharma-mw8rp She didn’t make him feel worthless. She’s not responsible for his insecurities. She did ask for a quiet life but obviously the whole point of the show is the criminal activity. It doesn’t seem like it was a long time for us but it was for them. There was a time jump and there’s literally six episodes in each part/season. edit: if anything she helped quiet the dark voices in his head and with her death, she became the voice.
Lizzie was an angel who just had a broken wing in the past...she just needed someone to love her. This goes for many young doves in the sex trade, both past & present.
Lizzie is an honorary member of the Small Heath Rifles. She is a Peaky Blinder. He destroyed her engagement with John, then married John off to someone else, hired her so she could "stop the other work," promoted her to a major role within the company, and had her boyfriend's business blown up THE DAY OF HIS OWN WEDDING! Thus, starting the whole Changretta Vendetta. She "helped keep his heart from breaking." The day she got pregnant he said "I wanted to come here with you." Lizzie is family and he loves Lizzie, he's just too stupid to know it. Polly knows it, and "Polly is never wrong about affairs of the heart."
Yes!!! Finally someone says this! I never liked grace Becuz of her lies, disrespect to Polly, and trying to change and mold Tommy. He is so damn infatuated with her to see what’s right before his eyes. His jealous of anyone having Lizzie. He says that she stopped his heart from breaking every damn night and yet at every damn opportunity he goes and breaks hers. What a fool. I hope Lizzie gets a happy ending she deserves this the most. I wish he could actually realize that he loves her. But his do far gone to see now.
I'm sorry, but there's this tenderness that Tommy shows, and he's only ever showed it to Grace. I don't think he'll ever love a girl as much as he loved Grace.
Actually tomy moved on pretty fast with grace. I think he suffered more in his loved ones during the war. I forgot her name, but he was holding her hands till death. I believe here death contribute to the changes of tommy after the war. Even may said grace and john death doesn’t change him. But the war and losing his love once during the war change him. So i don’t sgree with this. Tommy did love someone more than he did to grace.
@@WW-qt7po lol buddy I don't know what show you're watching but that's not true at all. The writer himself said this in an interview. Even said that Graces death is his second trauma. In season 5 he keeps hallucinating about her. He most definitely loved grace more then Gretta, judging from the fact that he never fucking mentions her. Cillian even said that after her death, Tommy emotionally shut down, and Steven knight also said that the reason they killed off Grace, is because if she lived, Tommy would have been happy, and he was never supposed to be happy.
I agree but he is just so caught up in his grief that he can't see the love she is showing also won't love her the same as grace because love has more than one way of showing itself
X2 por que no importa lo que pase el amor de su vida siempre sera grace y aunque intentara amar de la misma forma a lizzie como lo.hizo con grace jamas podria y no se pero pienso que el es conciente de ello por eso creo que por eso la trata como.la trata
My favorite scenes are when Tommy made Lizzie type on her typewriter with her eyes shut. "Did you say spring?" "Lizzie, what comes after winter?" That's the first time I saw her smile. She's so beautiful with her dimples. Another one is when Thomas saw Lizzie in the office and said "You're still here..." That showed Lizzie's dedication towards her work as secretary. That means she's eager to change from being in the streets to have a decent life! "You can tell it to me. I learned short hand." "Fair enough." (Tom looked a little bit impressed with her) "Dear Mr. Churchill..." Lizzie was astounded. "Is your pencil broken?" "No, do go on." These scenes were the scenes that's only light to take and somehow a breath of fresh air and beacon of light to their dark and toxic relationship. I hope she loves her for who she is, and for the things she's done form him.
Best female character of the show. She deserves better, she deserves the fucking world. Lizzie honey give this man a divorce, take all his money and marry me. I will treat you like a queen and give you the whole fucking world!!!
I hope in the movie Tommy realizes how much he loves Lizzie, I hope he has to fight for her affections, he has put her through pure hell! Lizzie fan here for sure
in my opinion lizzie is special, because she is so incredible and strong. Deserves a person who loves her and makes her feel unique and magnificent, just like she is
I did not like the episodes of grace. Its character is so basic and simple, boring. She didn’t have to betray Tommy or make him feel a little inferior; when she died, I don’t say I liked it but the story became more interesting and more beautiful.
Lizzie did not try to change Tommy, in any way; she had fallen in love with the real Tommy. Instead grace tried to change it. that’s what I also liked about Alizzie, she loved him the way he was, but unfortunately with Tommy it wasn’t so.
People only hate Alizzie because he 'replaced' grace, but it’s not really so in my opinion, she just wanted Tommy to give more attention and that he thought sometimes, as he said in the sixth season. People don’t have to think that she’s obnoxious or anything, she’s so peaceful and has a fantastic character despite her past
She an example how a woman what was called and viewed by everyone the lowest thing in society became a woman for respect by her own (not with force but slowly with time) because she has a true humanity in her. Tommy doesn't deserve her, he literally use her and its sad to watch how she doesn't see it or ignore it
She ignores it. Because she loves him she's willing to stick with him even though most of the time, Tommy treats her like shit. But I feel like Lizzie's growing tired of him too. I'm still hoping they'll end up together but I guess Lizzie will just come in her right state of mind and leave him. Idk yet.
Istg lizzies trama is ignored just as much as tommys bro fought in a ww1, has mental issues, has been shot, suicidal thoughts, ptsd, suffered severe hemorrhage, attempted suicide 3 times, had his own wife get shot before his eyes, his daughter died of TB, and yet he still tries his best even tho he stresses himself way to much in business which then makes him so moody and angry all the time which therefore causes him to lack simple respect for his own wife because of all the shit he's been thru and the shit he's going thru. I get that lizzies also been thru alot but don't antagonize tommy bec not once did he ever compare his trama with lizzies to get her to feel bad for him
@@aleli9204 I have been Lizzie(not the whore part lol) so I know exactly how this kind of relationship feels. It's hot, great sex and a few moments of raw emotions and kindness but for the most part. It hurts! You catch a glimpse of what he could be during those nice moments and hold on to them. You tell yourself if you just give him time, space or more affection then things would change even though they never will. Until eventually you burn out from constantly giving so much, overlooking so much. The person does something that makes you finally see them the way they see you. That's when you leave and they always let you go. Why? because you never meant as much as you thought you did to them.
That scene with John consoling her broke my heart into pieces. 😭 "What happened to you?" "Fell over." She really love Tommy despite of everything. Sometimes I wish she find another man and leave Tommy behind. But I still want them to end up together! 😭😭😭
She was dating Angel Changretta but because Tommy is Tommy, he ordered Lizzie to break up with him and even burnt down his restaurant. Poor Angel got killed in the end.
@@MybabyboyIra @Sohaila In an interview after season 4 aired, the actress Natasha (Lizzie) said Tommy is possessive and doesn't like it when she goes with other men, that's why her Italian boyfriend got the peaky cut. Tommy is jealous and possessive when it comes to her is what the narration is implying
@@MM-wb6qm but that’s nasty tho ! He treats Lizzie like his “possession” , telling her that she “ belongs to him and that he owns her “ that he “ still pays her in his head “ and he doesn’t trust other men around her b/c of her past which he showed at the the party with Mosely where Tommy fuKt her in the pantry so she wouldn’t “go with other men” , it’s kind of a sad life for Lizzie to be under coercive control. He got her former boyfriend blinded and killed because he didn’t want her dating a foreigner and didn’t want them to show up at Grace’s wedding, but then he goes with foreign women like Grace who was from Dublin and Tatiana who was from Tiblisi . So it was ok for him to sleep with foreign women and hookers but Lizzie can’t even go on a date ? He also stopped her from marrying his brother
@@nabihasabri4262 well he needs to let it go n stop punishing other women for her demise ! Like the way he speaks to Lizzie and the way he grabbed Tatiana by the throat
I think the grace vs Lizzie thing is clearly represented with the children when Tom kills the horse; Charlie is like grace, he doesn’t understand nor accepts toms gangster life and wants to change him; ruby stays calm and doesn’t get overly upset like Charlie and is more understanding She’ll probably be the one who inherits toms brains lol
Oohhh! Nicely put ! Maybe because Ruby is younger so she doesn’t really take into account the whole concept of “death” and just accepts it for what it is , maybe she is more sheltered from Tommy’s gangster life whereas Charlie is older and hears and sees things like when Aberama and Johnny Doggs came up to his house all guns blazing
@@supernova7848 you’re right..while Charlie is having a tramtum of “you shoot horses,you shoot people!”...while Ruby asked her dad “Why did you shoot him (horse)? means she wants first to understand what is going on..very wise for her age
Well…. Tommy’s feelings towards his wife is also represented via the children…. how he worries and bothers to go and pacify Charlie but doesn’t even bother to respond to Ruby!!
Agree. Its a bit like the godfather. The son is the more sensative one wanting out of the criminal life..the daughter is for it...I hope to see more of the kids dynamic in the next series.
Yes! We could clearly see that Ruby is a bit ahead of her age. Doesn't whine like a crybaby. Even Tommy's a bit neglectful of her, there's no denying she inherited her father's perception of things.
I just want tommy to realise how much he loves and cares for lizzie in season 6 because he does love her imo and I don’t care what other people say about their relationship. They belong together. I always think tommy only hallucinate over grace because he is guilty of her death and he longed for a normal life with her. But you see, you can’t change someone and that’s what grace tried to do, he wanted to change tommy’s way of living where lizzie accepts tommy for who he is, supports him and I’m sure tommy knows that. He does seem territorial and possessive over lizzie and some people say it’s not love but we never really know, eh? He is thomas shelby, even viewers can’t penetrate and comprehend the way he thinks but somewhere deep inside him I’m sure he feels much more for lizzie not just as his possession or property.
I think he liked Grace so much bc she represented something he thought was unobtainable. Let's face it. She was planted there undercover at the bar and stuck out like a sore thumb. She represented a life, family, unconditional love. She was "untouched" by that life and he wanted to keep it that way. He was always proving himself to Grace. She never asked or made him but it was almost as if he was protecting what he thought was her innocence. Then he found out she was sent in but had fell in love by then. Lizzie was the opposite. She came from nothing; sleeping around for money. Lizzie tried to fend for herself but it was man's world back then and she simply didnt have the luxury life Grace came from. Tommy looked down on that and used it to his advantage. He always gave the impression he was ashamed or disgusted with Lizzie. He was never MEANT to be with Grace. Any other circumstances, they would have never met each other. Now he longs for a love that will never come again. He settled for Lizzie and she accepts what's left. He was humbled quickly tho. Had it not been for Lizzie after Grace died, he probably would have went insane. Lizze always exhibited class and taking the high road then. She helped him mourn his love loss while he never cared deeply for her. Tommy was right. She's just property.
Grace was touched by the life. She lied, had hatred in her heart, knew huge loss, killed people. On paper they werent right for each other. But the war changed Tommy and losing her father changed Grace. That is why Tommy he fell in love. Because they were the same , they could talk, they could understand each other.
@@ejenny21 Grace became that way AFTER what happened to her father. Before then she was untouched. When she finally got what she wanted and felt she avenged her father, she went right back to yearning and desiring that "high" life she came from.
@@roseybud2821 Her father death changed her forever and there was no going back. She told Campbell the revenge thing because she wanted him to let her go without asking question. In truth she let go of her revenge because she found Tommy. if she wanted the high life then she would have loved her husband. But she only loved Tommy.
And I hate him for that. You worded it out perfectly that I almost felt the pain I felt when I first watched PB. I'm itching to know when will Tommy reciprocate the love Lizzie has given him. Or if he'll never come to that point, then don't keep her close. Even if Lizzie insists, he must not let it. He shouldn't keep someone close then treat her like shit for no reason at all.
Tommy may love Grace more than Lizzie. But for me... Lizzie is >>>>> Grace. She's literally there for Tommy since the beginning. And the fact that she treats Charlie as her own child makes me admire her more.
Firstly he doesn't love her. Secondly grace didn't want to change him she just wanted him being out of trouble. He wanted the same. And he wanted to keep his family safe and start legal business. She wanted the same. They both wanted the same
I think Tommy truly is a ladies man & he loves all of them & lusts after them, but in different ways! . I mean in the beginning with Grace, he didn’t treat her that well. He told he her he knew she was lying & he set her up with Billy Kimber, he tested her & put her through some trials & tribulations. Lol
@@_vvvalerie_6776 exactly!!! I don’t understand why people are so negative about grace... and keep saying she wanted to change him!!! U put it well... she just wanted him out of trouble and he wanted them to be safe!!!.... infact people forget in season 1 he was the one who tries to stop her from leaving... telling her he is going to shut down his illegal business... even after he finds out who she is.... he tells her that he will throw the gun in the canal someday.
I love Lizzie she’s one of my favourites, I always rooted for her and Tommy. Hated Grace never understood people’s fascination with her, she was boring and annoying.
I totally agree with you. Not only was she boring, she was also absolutely horrible to her first husband. She didn’t deserve any sort of happy ending, and I hated that she and Tommy ended up together (plus, Polly hated her, and that says a lot)
Hopefully in Season 6 Tommy reciprocates the love Lizzie has for him. In my opinion, Lizzie and Tommy are a better couple and can be even better if Tommy loves her back
Lizzie - what stunning character development. I am rooting for her to come out on top. Lizzie is it for Tommy for sure, he knows it, he is getting there slowly but surely.
Yeah well Tommy doesn’t seem to like Tommy and Lizzie as much as Tommy and Grace. Again for the point the show likes to make about female empowerment they write kid of shitty for the women sometimes except Polly. And Ada.
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When Empowerment means being deceived again and again leaking information, being a burden them leaking information again them yeah, btw Esme should have married Thomas she was damm cleaver but Jhon was no King
@@Collins1118 lol true that... even tommy doesnt like tommy and lizzie 😂😂 and yeah i agree the writing... i didnt like what was done to grace’s character compared to s1.. and i also think her character would have overpowered polly when it came to influencing tommy and she could be a badass but instead just made her cute wife kept away from real stuff..also jessie eden... he just made a joke out of her.. such a smart women being used like that.. absolutely irrational
But he doesn't love back so it's a one sided relationship, unlike with Grace. We can criticize her all we want but what they had was unique just because it was corresponded between both parts. She loved him and he loved her, unlike what happened with any other woman Tommy touched or actually used (like on Lizzie's case).
After I finished the last episode, I felt really really sad for Lizzie. She’s a good wife and a great mother for Charles and Ruby. Tommy put her through way too much. He didn’t even look sad when Lizzie told him she already packed and removed the wedding ring. My heart completely broken. However, I wish they’re back together as a family again in the film 🤍
idk what the people in the comments are saying about Tommy not loving Lizzie. Lizzie is his best friend on this show in my eyes. he loves her beyond a romantic and sexual level. if you don’t think he cares about Lizzie you are lying to yourself.
I feel like Lizzie has gone through so much character development and I feel like she and Thomas really do love each other but I’m just not convinced it will ever be romantically. He is nowhere near as in love with her as he was grace, and they’re only together for Ruby’s sake. I’d of preferred if they bought in a new character altogether instead of trying to make Lizzie fit the description
I love Lizzie, she came from far but she was good and loyal to Thomas she was the one that had him when hè was broken! I think they love eachother more then we all think.. ♥️
Yes! I hate Tommy for what he did. He knew Lizzie will never say no to him and he used that opportunity! If he hadn't meddle with their relationship, John won't die, Grace won't die, and Lizzie will receive the amount of love she truly deserve! That one moment, we never knew, could be a catalyst to such a lot of changes.
Exactly! I really don't get it! 🤣🤣🤣 Crime is a crime, sin is a sin. But with Grace, she'll be worshipped forever like a virgin goddess because Tommy loved her! Wtf!!!
agreed hahaha, it was supposed to be so good that it enchants all the men in the pub but all I think about is “girl, just come down before you embarrass yourself further”
Grace and Lizzie are completely different. The most important difference is that the first was a wife and the last is a real partner. I grew up with Lizzie has she chose this life (as she said) and she doesn’t want to change Tommy. With Grace couldn’t last so much let’s be real ... you could see it from the wedding party. Anyway this show is AMAZING - looking forward for season 6
Omg I thought I was the only one that liked Lizzie and Tommy.😩 I just hate that he told her he still pay for her cuz I thought they was going sum where 😕
There's a saying, sometimes a person (Tommy) get what he NEED (Lizzie) NOT what he WANT (Grace). Maybe....becuz God (the writers & creator) knows better.
agree! sometimes what we want is not what we need, and sometimes we don’t even realized what we need because we are too blinded by what we want. perfectly describes the Toy Lizzy Grace fiasco
Sadly in Tommy’s story, he got what he NEEDED (Grace) and also what he WANTED (Grace) but God (SK) wants to prolong the story and unfortunately inserted the UNwanted and UNneeded (Lizzie)
Yes! That's true! I hope SK is true to his words that at the end of the series, Tommy will realize that he loves his wife and his family. I will hold on to that simply because he's the writer of the show! He knows everything, the reason behind it, and why some characters in the series aren't meant to be at the end of it! ❤
ugh finally someone said that, i feel like she was somehow interesting in season 1 and her storyline from there was boring and unlikely to Tommy since he is such a honorable man
I’m about to watch season 5 and I don’t know yet whether I like him better with Grace or Lizzie. It’s clear that Lizzie loves him to death but until now I just feel like he doesn’t appreciate it enough. It’s also obvious to me that the last time he was truly happy was when he was with Grace but you can see he cares about Lizzie a lot. I haven’t made up my mind yet but I guess I haven’t seen enough.
I'm about to watch s5 too , but I know that i like him better with lizzie because she truly loves him and cares about him but he is just so blinded with grace's love ... and yes he cares about lizzie alot but he doesn't love her . May be he will marry her because she will get pregnant only . I hope he loves her
Tommy once said to Grace, I need you. He also hadn't seen Grace for years after she left. Lizzie has always been there for Tommy and always will. That's why he doesn't appreciate her. He's never afraid of what might happen to her...until Oswald appeared. Hopefully he will snap and realize the woman who's always been there for him. She truly gave up everything for him. If anyone had done that for me, the moment my dumb ass realizes, I'm running straight to her and giving my heart to her bc there's no way I can repay her for all the things she's done for me. I hope season 6 or 7, ends with Tommy realizing family is the most important thing and not his wild ambitions. Maybe he almost loses Lizzie, a thought that never crossed his mind before. And then realizes how much she meant to him.
A man like Tommy will only have a great love once. Its not easy for him to allow himself to fall in love so when he does, he gives a part of his soul to the person, reserved only for that person. So no, he'll never love Lizzie the way he loves Grace. Not that he doesn't Lizzie because he does. But I believe as a person, as someone who is always in his corner, as someone who will take care of his home and kids, but not necessarily the romantic, she is a part of me type of love. And Lizzie, she a great woman. I love her character arc and how she has grown into her own. She is loyal to Tommy, smart, beautiful, and knows how to look the other way. But Lizzie deserves better. She deserves the type of love Tommy will never be able to reciprocate. She too should have in a partner what Tommy requires in his, what he gave to Grace. Lizzie is phenomenal.
Lizzie is the one who really understand tommy but tommy always take her for granted and he just sees her as his property. I hope that in S6 tommy will realize how lizzie love him since the beginning.
Being with a hurt person is sometimes a blessing for they understand suffering and rejection.They no nothing like lust and pleasure all they seek is love and life.
Both Lizzie and Grace are perfect in their own ways for Tommy. I wish we see Tommy being more emotionally close to Lizzie in Season 6, can't wait! Love both his queens
Not sure why but I can’t seem to find anyone other than myself who likes Lizzie and Grace. I believe that nobody could compare to Grace and she was Tommy’s one true love. However Lizzie also did help out Tommy. They’re both good people.
I need him to love her back. I know the creators said the point of graces death was so that Tom couldn't be happy but I honestly think he is going to die in season 6 so it will be fitting for him to show his love for Lizzie and then we see his death.
If he kills himself on S6 chances are Tommy is gonna end himself over the loss of Grace and close family. But as it's stated above there's gonna be a movie...
I feel like if he doesn't love her than dont keep her around let her go just stop with the games because clearly she's in love with him and he's just taking it for granted and she deserves better than that just let her go if you dont want her... But looking at this couple it makes me wonder he may be in love with her but he doesn't say it or show it or maybe hes scared of loving agian because of what happened to grace
I think he is very much attached to her, she does keep him grounded and sane, as sane as he can be. but he still can't let go of Grace. Not only the love but also the guilt
@@Bellas61 He told her you belong to me, yet he throws her over the desk when he wants to make love, which is disrespectful, he still treats her like the old days. Tatiana treated him like that though.May he respects as an upper class trophy, Jessie Eden because he wanted to win her trust but yet too respects her. They al, have different meanings to him, but also like a knot has 8n his belt!
@@MsKatkitty yes ! True ! He was very rough with her when he wanted to make love . Even after Grace left to the US he made love with Lizzie in a very cold and dissassociating way , moving like a robot , just looking at the wall , then when he took her to the park he kept talking about his ex girlfriend and that’s when he gets her pregnant and then in Season 5 she says to him “can’t we at least make love in the bed” ?? I was like please what had been going with these 2 ??? Isn’t she supposed to be his wife ? You are right about Tatiana, Tatiana was in the Alpha position in her interactions with Tommy he looked soft vulnerable next to her , she gave him a bit of his own medicine
The agony of supposed unrequited love (Lizzie)...but if he understood love, he’d know how much he needs and loves her. He’s just so blind. What’s the song? Only know you love her when you let her go?
Grace was Tommy's idea of "ideal love" where everything seems to be perfect, but Lizzie is Tommy in every aspect. Both rough, both flawed, both scarred. It really saddens me that Tommy might not love Lizzie the way he loved Grace but he could at least respect her, be her husband, and love their daughter (in a way that he love his son).
@@aleli9204 wtf? the creator himself said that Grace was the only one he loved, and even after her death or after he married Lizzie, he still thinks of her as the love of his life,she will always be his love, even if he meets or marries other women. What he feels for Lizzie is not love, he's just needy and needed someone to be the mother figure for his,she will always be his love, even if he meets or marries other women. What he feels for Lizzie is not love, he's just needy and needed someone to be the mother figure For your child.
@@Lili_ds i'm not against Grace being Tommy's one true love. She can have that title all for herself and bring it wherever she is now. What i'm saying is that, Tommy should somehow AT LEAST show some tenderness towards Lizzie. As i said, I know HE WILL NEVER LOVE Lizzie the way he loved Grace but THAT IS NOT an enough reason for him to treat her like a piece of shit. As if Tommy boy didn't benefit from Lizzie's undying love for him.
@@Lili_ds the writer is promoting toxic love and pickme-ism ! He writes a storyline where Tommy keeps pining over a dead woman while intoxicated on drugs n alcohol, then treats his actual wife like a piece of shit and keeps her under coercive control ( “when u marry a Shelby you stay married” implying that she can’t leave him even if she wanted to ) you can see an even worse example of that when Arthur goes to beat the she shit out of Linda’s church friend Frederick and severely disfigured him leaving him with “ no face “ ! The only way Linda could escape from the violence was to resort to violence herself by trying to kill Arthur but Polly shoots her first . All the couples on the show are actually seriously flawed .
I think that possibly the hottest scene in Peaky Blinders is where Lizzie lays down the terms on which she will stay in the marriage. No other women in the house. No other women near Ruby. And, even as he is saying he still pays for it, she demands steady sex from him as part of the agreement. Because Tommy Shelby is hot. Good for Lizzie. And her takedown of Mosley's sexual prowess is epic.
Yes he loved her, but never in the same way he loved Grace, she was the one. And no matter how much he tries to make her like Grace, she never will be, and I think, deep down Tommy knows that, but having her around, almost makes it seem like she is Grace, she fills that void. But it´s not true love, he´s just trying to kill the sadness he feels by using her, and keeping her around so that he doesn´t fall apart, because he will never get Grace back.
Lizzie is a great character, interesting evolution on the show. BUT...she'll NEVER be Tommy's TRUE love (even with child and marriage). GRACE was the love of his life and in my POV the writers changer her personnality at the end of season 2 to kill her in season 3 without a lot of people missing her. The show is a drama, we know that Tommy will never be truly happy (especially with women) and that he caresabout Lizzie...but nothing compare to what he had with Grace in season 1 and the two years they had after that.
I belive Lizzie doesn't want and doesn't have to be Thomas' true love. I'm pretty sure she knew how Grace meant to Tommy's life, right from the start. That's why when she and Tommy got married, Lizzie tried to move on with another man (Angel Changretta) but things happened and now, Lizzie is the wife of Tommy Shelby. As I've said, and if I were Lizzie, I won't wish to have that title. The One True Love. No, she doesn't want that. Lizzie is another case. She deserves a brand new type of love, that is only meant for her and she shouldn't be placed in the shadow of a dead woman. She has her own CHARACTER and beauty and Tommy should reciprocate it with the love that is meant only for Lizzie. Not Grace.
Although i love and miss Grace, I think Lizzie is an amazing character and I hope her and Tom could find true love in each other bc they’re pretty cute
Grace was enough lucky as she got Tommy's deep love . But lizzie was used by tommy ,,, when grace left the world , tommy found the necessity of lizzie in his life as Lizzie was always there like a shade to support Tom in anykind of situation. When tommy said to lizzie: "some nights it was you who saved my heart from breaking " I got suddenly so much emotional thinking about the character Lizzie.
Couldn't agree more. I hope in season 6 they got the ending they deserve. If tommy doesn't have any plans of loving Lizzie, he must let her go. He's an asshole for keeping her close and treating her like shit!
Like John said she has a hard life and needs someone . I like Lizzie because she is loyalty to Tommy and she always love him not like Grace. Grace only came back to Tommy because she had his child.
I honestly feel sorry for Lizzie. It's obvious how she's been in love with him for years, yet Tommy never reciprocated - yes, even after they got married. I think he wouldn't even have married her if it wasn't for Ruby. I believe he - sort of - respects her, cares for her on his own way, is grateful that she's a good mother for his children, but that's far from love. Grace left a hole in his heart that no one will ever be able to fullfill. I wish Lizzie could find someone that would genuinely love her, and she'd love that person too - even though it feels kind of impossible now.
I don't know but as I watch season 6 I feel like at the end, Lizzie will just go and break free from Tommy. I absolutely don't want that but Lizzie seemed to be so tired of all the bullshits. I really wish her the best of everything.
I think he loved Esme, but because he and Lizzie used to date he still very much cared for her. That is diffirence between Tommy and John...John saw how kind and loyal Lizzie was even when she was prostitute and had nothing. Tommy saw her just like some mattress he can lay on.
Lizzie dated angel changretta. The peaky boys killed angel resulted to the italians coming back. In restrospect, tommy cared for lizzie maybe not as deeply inlove as he is with grace. He stopped john marrying lizzie, by marrying john to esme. He stopped, lizzie dating angel. And eventually impregnating her. :) i totally think that she deserves to be THE mrs thomas shelby. Not grace, grace betrayed tommy lizzie never did.
He stopped john from marrying lizzy because she was ready to sleep with another man when she was with john, he just wanted better for his brother( i don't like ezme) and he stopped lizzie from dating angelo because she worked on him and he didn' t want to mess with italians. That' s it. Yes grace betrayed him but it was in the past. she would never do that again to him
@@_vvvalerie_6776 she wasn't willing to sleep with another man. She was willing to sleep with him. And you can tell it wasn't about the money. They always had a bond. That's why Tommy stopped him. He wouldn't have access to her if she was married to his brother. Then he hires her to work for him and give up the lifestyle. The Same thing with Angel, his jealousy led to him killing Angel. And his killing Angel resulted in his losing Grace. And still, he runs to Lizzie. Still he ties himself to Lizzie. He may not know it. But he is connected and I do believe he's in love with Lizzie. Thomas Shelby does not tie himself to just anyone, baby or not. He could have told her to abort it. He didn't. He thought, one more tie to her. Not just the baby, but marriage. He keeps tying himself to her. He even said she stopped his heart from breaking. His jealousy drove him to try and kill the fascist sooner than he would have. And Lizzie is definitely one of the few people that is keeping him alive. That woman is his love. He's allowed a third love.
@@_vvvalerie_6776 what would make a person like Thomas Shelby - his character - go and proposition her if he could have sent anyone else. If she was a woman of coin and not interested in John, anyone else could have hired her. He then got her to quit and work for him. If he really didn't want her tied to him and his family, he would have let her be. He could have also hired her after John wanted to marry her. He didn't. He's very convenient with when he assists Lizzie and it is only to draw her closer to him. Then why cook up a beef with Angel when Arthur didn't want to. If he was the same level-headed, cool, rational man he is with everyone else, he would have ignored her dating him. This is not guesswork. You're just angry because I am correct and you have no response to it. Please don't do that. Either have proper feedback or ignore it. But if you analyzed a character, Tommy loves Lizzie. He's just haunted with guilt. And that guilt still wasn't enough to let Lizzie go. He married her. He confides in her. She knows his heartbreaks and they're natural, comfortable, honest with her. She's not on a pedestal. She's a partner.
Never liked grace. Partly because the character was so dull and mostly because Annabelle wallis can't act for shit. They should stop bringing her back as a ghost.
Totally agreed. I just watched the whole series and was so happy when I thought she would never come back after Season 1... only to be let down in Season 2. I was honestly not sad at all when she finally died. The ghost thing is annoying af.
I wish they had shown way more scenes with the two of them... or actually more scenes relationship wise for the whole cast and not just political talk allll the time ..🤷🏼♀️ there is so much to explore in these complex relationships with rich characters
I still and probably will never understand how Tommy can supposedly “fell in love” with Grace in season 1 when he hardly talked to her except when he used her as bait for Kimber. In my eyes, they have 0 chemistry and still don’t. I am still confused on how quickly he “fell in love” when he is so calculating and hard trusting people. I still believe that the writers just want to push the cliché trope of gang leader fell in love with spy women, all this forbidden love type of stuff or the other trope on how he’s the broken bad boy (since the trauma from the war) and she’s a good girl who can somehow “fix” him or make him more “good” when I think the whole point of this movie is about a gang and he’s not supposed to be good. I feel like they only make him love Grace to sort of make the audience see him as “oh he loves the girl so much, he can’t be that evil, he still has some humanity in him left”
I agree! Humanity means loving all people! Not just 1 the one person you put on a pedestal .. he treated the other women like crap and tried to stop Freddie from marrying Ada and John from marrying Lizzie just because he had stopped believing in love it doesn’t mean that he had the right to stop other people, even threatened Ben Younger. As Ada said everything he touches gets burned. Only Tatiana got away Scott Free !
@@supernova7848 yes and the only reason Tatiana got away scotched free was bc she decided to pull herself out of there, to save herself. Look at Grace with her banker husband, she could be happy and criminal life free but nope, she chose danger lmao
Couldn't agree more! That's also the reason why they killed her character. SK said Tommy was never meant to be happy. More like the idea of Grace doesn't fit the series. Notice that all of the storylines are realistically made, gangsters, sinners, prostitutes, totally mirror what the story tries to depict. The protagonist was cold, unfazed, calculating, wise, and traumatized because of the war then suddenly, a rich girl who's secretly a spy, came along. And all of a sudden the protagonist is stupid enough not to figure out that she's a snitch! Not only that, with few interactions, few conversations, mediocre singing, the gangster's already in love!!!! Oh please! 🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️
@@aleli9204 don’t get me started on the singing lmao. i thought it was supposed to be so good that it enchants everyone in the pub but throughout all of it the only thing i’m thinking is “girl get down from there and stop embarrassing yourself” and yes!! i mean if they flesh out her character more and make them get to know each other better then make them hook up at atleast season 2 or 3 i would have accepted it but no.. this man has ptsd from war, he’s a gang member who is very calculating just somehow fell in love with a woman he barely talked to lmaoo this is why i prefer him with lizzie bc atleast they have history
Him not clocking Grace was a HUGE oversight in the script for me ! He managed to clock the Russian spy, he clocked the IRA guy , he clocked the creepy priest , he was always suspicious of Tatiana , he clocked Mickey and even shot him for his betrayal !! But somehow could not clock Grace ?? Even when he said he asked around and no one knew of her at the pub she claimed to have worked at and also clocked her in the Church ! And he still could not figure that she was the mole all along ? Him Only making up a story about Grace running away from home and having had an abortion? Polly had to tell him that Grace was in fact the mole !! 😂😂😂 He should have been thinking with his other head not the one in his trousers ! What type of self respecting Gangster marries the neighborhood Snitch? 😂
I actually like tommy & lizzie more than tommy & grace. Yes grace was interesting in season 1 but not so much after... I was curious about where will tommy & lizzie's relationship go when she show us her interest towards tommy. Also i think lizzie and tommy had more trust and understanding.. also after grace died i think tommy felt more of guilt than love that's why he kept thinking about her, idk...just my opinion.
Agreed, he even travelled all the way to wales after her death for absolution. He needed to know its not his fault that she died so that he can move on. Its the guilt that is still causing him misery more then anything.
@@allthetiredhorses5229 gosh! You seriously have to read between the lines! You take everything literally. What she meant by that is Tommy and his shenanigans shouldn't reach where Lizzie and their children live! It's her daughter's birthday! Charles is on the doorway about to witness everything! There are men outside ready to kill each other! No one will stand for them and that's the reason Lizzie came out with a gun! "Get away from my house! Get away from my child! I don't want you back!" She's so mad at Tommy because he let that happen! His shit reached their children's doorstep! Seriously? You all like to make Lizzie look bad! You're busy hating without analyzing the situtation. She cared for a child that's not hers more than Tommy! He's so dazed with his Peaky world that he let that happen! Without even thinking that his children might be in danger too!
Tommy will never love Lizzie the same way he did with Grace and that is just a fact. However, Lizzie is his "property" and although people would feel indignant of that notion of a person, that's just how Tommy's brain works now and for me that is enough. This was in the 1900's and men, however gentlemanly they conduct themselves has always been misogynistic in a way. I don't want him to just realize that he loved Lizzie just because Tommy is not Tommy without his reservations. He may not love Lizzie but he respects her and he's said it several times that essentially she saved him from breaking. In contrast, Grace broke his heart completely. Lizzie, is just there sometimes to put a bandage on it.
I'm so excited for Lizzie in S6! I hope she steps up.. I would like to see some wife vs wife (Gangster vs. Aristocrat) against Diana Mosley! That would be fun to watch!!
Absolutely agree, the Mosleys were a force together, and Tommy Lizzie as a power couple head butting with them will be fantastic, tension between the 2 classes.
He really lived Esme too. He was looking more for a wife & a mother for his kids, but he respected her more than Tommy did. He’d be rolling 8n his grave knowing his brother married her instead, surprised he hasn’t had dreams of John saying did you stop me from marrying her so you could have her for yourself Tommy! Wtf
@@MsKatkitty not really SK has explained that scene was purely to test Lizzie, he genuinely wanted to give them a chance but lizzie chose money! Also John did his own investigation and found out she was sleeping with other regulars too so Tommy had nothing to do with that!
S6 is just around the corner, wonder what is in store for Tommy and Lizzie. This series is said to be so dark. I'm so tired of all the depression and unhappiness in this show. Hoping for some light in the end. Fingers crossed!
grace miller exactly even in season 2 after the incident at the races John was just so nice and natural with her like ahh they were meant to be I’m convinced
Lizzie just wanted to be loved tbh. She loved Tom, and she was more trustworthy than grace. Too bad Tommy couldn't love her like she did him or like she deserved to be loved. He couldn't get over grace
![Tommy & Lizzie | Another Love [Peaky Blinders]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/cG1KmC6mUJM/mqdefault.jpg)
![Tommy & Lizzie | Another Love [Peaky Blinders]](/img/tr.png)
![[[OFFICIAL MV]] เอิ้นขวัญให้อ้าย- อ๊ะอาย สกุณาพร | ค่ายเพลงเป็นหนึ่ง](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/83x6L3X3qh0/mqdefault.jpg)
When Tommy said "some nights, it was you who stopped my heart from breaking" my whole view on Lizzie changed. I grew to love her character.
That quote is from which episode??
@@anasoares1043 I'm gonna say it was season 3 finale
Berra Saral i’ve already found it but thanks
Same
@@anasoares1043 season 3 episode 4 i gusse
I agree so badly with the "he doesn't deserve her" statement.
The way lizzie love charlie as much as she love ruby, melt my heart
Yup! And that makes her a true queen to me. Even after all the thing's she's been through, she's still willing to love. She still has a warm heart for a boy who needs a mother - even if it's not hers.
Who's charlie?
@@Muhammad-rd6rd his kid from grace
he doesnt deserve her. shes too good for him
Where she'd stay if there wasn't Tommy? Too good? She couldn't even choose between John and Tommy
@@ohmygod_rickey I love Tommy however I do agree with the original comment that she deserves to be with someone who loves her just as much as she loves him and doesn't constantly imagine his ex is there.
@@ohmygod_rickey It’s messed up but I think she did that to stick around Tommy. I think she has always loved Tommy, but I think she felt like she could be more to John. Idk... I was disappointed when she failed Tommy’s test. But I also think she was in a different spot in her life and was desperate for security. At the same time Tommy let her down too.. She’s earned her position. She’s been loyal and trustworthy to the family..
@@ashleyprice4138 Nah she chose to fail that test because Marrying a Shelby would get her more money than a few bucks so it wasn't about money , she wanted to sleep with tommy because she always loved him.
@@ohmygod_rickey yes too good. She failed the test coz she was still poor at that time and needed the money to survive that's why when tom offered her the money, she took it!
He needs Lizzie because he needs someone who will never say NO to him. He needs her for Charlie, for his son to have a “normal” family to grow up in, someone who he can call his when he needs to feel complete or the idea that a man has a wife. He sees Lizzie as someone who fills in any void he has in his life no matter how misplaced she may be. She’s a generic aubstitute to anyone or anything. That is self-love and never a genuine love for someone. Really.
Agreed. In the beginning the jokes they made about her were horrible. Like they never intended on her having much of a future role. Then she sat around waiting for whenever Tommy wanted her. This last season they gave her a few scenes where she challenged Tommy more but that lasted about 2 seconds. The relationship between Lizzie and Tommy isn’t really a love story. In fact I don’t think he ever once told her he loves her. Eh we will see what happens next season. But writers have said Tommy isn’t someone really meant to be happy, that’s why they killed off Grace after what seems like two days after their wedding. Though they were together the years leading up to the wedding.
Jerfesson Pedro I think you’re right. She is someone he knows and can trust. She helps take care of not only their daughter but his son with Grace. I think we’ve seen that isn’t something he’s capable of doing in this last season. I can see why he’d want that. It was the writing in the first season that everyone had a laugh at her expense. But I don’t always like how Knight writes female characters.
@@Collins1118 It was like against all odds. He was not meant to be happy, as it is what it is. No one would grant you happiness if you've fucked up hundredths of lives on your palms. I actually agree on the plot of killing Grace because it serves the right justice of all the wicked schemes of Tommy. He was really not meant for happiness since when he was born for being a peaky blinders.
Tommy once said to Grace, I need you. He also hadn't seen Grace for years after she left. Lizzie has always been there for Tommy and always will. That's why he doesn't appreciate her. He's never afraid of what might happen to her...until Oswald appeared. Hopefully he will snap and realize the woman who's always been there for him. She truly gave up everything for him. I hope season 6 or 7, ends with Tommy realizing family is the most important thing and not his wild ambitions. Maybe he almost loses Lizzie, a thought that never crossed his mind before. And then realizes how much she meant to him.
I have recognised myself in this comment. I just filled a void until he filled it with a better girl
I feel like Tommy always had a little soft spot for Lizzie. Yes he loved Grace but Lizzie’s the person he always seems to go back to no matter how many women came into his life. I think he is in love with her but doesn’t realize or just doesn’t let himself fully love her
Yeah! You said everything. He always come back to Lizzie.
@@karolinyherzog8641 Lizzie was clearly someone he loved...but not on a romantic level as with Grace. He was in love and loved Grace very much. Lizzie was his friend, confidant, wife, good person, good mother and he knew all of this. Even though she was a hooker, he still never mistreated her. But Lizzie was his safe choice.
early on they said Lizzie reminds him of Greta, his first love which is why he has a soft spot for her
@@napperforlife2020 Lizzie is more than just this surface "hooker" label. She's more than that. That's why she is a lot of things to tommy.
@@mirandasummersetWhich episode please?

I’ll be honest and a lot of people probably will hate me for it: I can’t stand Grace and even though she was Tommy’s “love of his life” she didn’t fit as his partner. She lied and betrayed him and I will never understand why the writers just made him forgive her. She constantly wanted to change Tommy and ugh. I’m honestly routing more for Lizzie and it breaks my heart how Tommy often treats her. I hope they will make Tommy realize what he has in her at some point before the end. Or give Lizzie someone that is willing to love her how she is and make her truly happy.
fr tho I understand what your saying but grace was the love of his life. Lizzie may not be grace but she is for damn shore her own women and I kind of do ship Lizzie with tom more than grace with tom
Facts
Lizzie was Tommy's need not desire
It was Always may for me
I fugkin agreee
I like Lizzie more than Grace but somehow I still prefer Tommy & Grace. You could just see how much he loved her
He did....but he didn't really spend a lot of time with her, and even in the short time they were married, you could see her manipulating both him and Polly. Plus, she made him feel inadequate and worthless. So, imo, if she'd actually lived, the infatuation would've worn off, and it wouldn't have lasted. Lizzie accepts him for who he is, and frankly, is too good for him.
@@RameshSharma-mw8rp She didn’t make him feel worthless. She’s not responsible for his insecurities. She did ask for a quiet life but obviously the whole point of the show is the criminal activity. It doesn’t seem like it was a long time for us but it was for them. There was a time jump and there’s literally six episodes in each part/season.
edit: if anything she helped quiet the dark voices in his head and with her death, she became the voice.
Fook lizzie
It’s a different love.
It's not real 😂😂😂😂😂
Lizzie was an angel who just had a broken wing in the past...she just needed someone to love her.
This goes for many young doves in the sex trade, both past & present.
Beautifully put.❤️
Agreed
What about John?
Absolutely agree
Lizzie is an honorary member of the Small Heath Rifles. She is a Peaky Blinder. He destroyed her engagement with John, then married John off to someone else, hired her so she could "stop the other work," promoted her to a major role within the company, and had her boyfriend's business blown up THE DAY OF HIS OWN WEDDING! Thus, starting the whole Changretta Vendetta. She "helped keep his heart from breaking." The day she got pregnant he said "I wanted to come here with you." Lizzie is family and he loves Lizzie, he's just too stupid to know it. Polly knows it, and "Polly is never wrong about affairs of the heart."
Você está assistindo a mesma série que eu 👏🏾
Agree. But did Polly say it?
Yes!!! Finally someone says this! I never liked grace Becuz of her lies, disrespect to Polly, and trying to change and mold Tommy. He is so damn infatuated with her to see what’s right before his eyes. His jealous of anyone having Lizzie. He says that she stopped his heart from breaking every damn night and yet at every damn opportunity he goes and breaks hers. What a fool. I hope Lizzie gets a happy ending she deserves this the most. I wish he could actually realize that he loves her. But his do far gone to see now.
She never got to become his lover, but she has become his family. It's a sadness from deeper layers for them both.
Yes!!!! Thank you for this!
I'm sorry, but there's this tenderness that Tommy shows, and he's only ever showed it to Grace. I don't think he'll ever love a girl as much as he loved Grace.
Actually tomy moved on pretty fast with grace. I think he suffered more in his loved ones during the war. I forgot her name, but he was holding her hands till death. I believe here death contribute to the changes of tommy after the war. Even may said grace and john death doesn’t change him. But the war and losing his love once during the war change him. So i don’t sgree with this. Tommy did love someone more than he did to grace.
@@WW-qt7po lol buddy I don't know what show you're watching but that's not true at all. The writer himself said this in an interview. Even said that Graces death is his second trauma. In season 5 he keeps hallucinating about her. He most definitely loved grace more then Gretta, judging from the fact that he never fucking mentions her. Cillian even said that after her death, Tommy emotionally shut down, and Steven knight also said that the reason they killed off Grace, is because if she lived, Tommy would have been happy, and he was never supposed to be happy.
@@WW-qt7po no. Moved on fast reaĺly? It's been 10 years since her death and he still loves her so much that he even sees her in his hallucinations.
I agree but he is just so caught up in his grief that he can't see the love she is showing also won't love her the same as grace because love has more than one way of showing itself
X2 por que no importa lo que pase el amor de su vida siempre sera grace y aunque intentara amar de la misma forma a lizzie como lo.hizo con grace jamas podria y no se pero pienso que el es conciente de ello por eso creo que por eso la trata como.la trata
My favorite scenes are when Tommy made Lizzie type on her typewriter with her eyes shut.
"Did you say spring?"
"Lizzie, what comes after winter?"
That's the first time I saw her smile. She's so beautiful with her dimples. Another one is when Thomas saw Lizzie in the office and said "You're still here..."
That showed Lizzie's dedication towards her work as secretary. That means she's eager to change from being in the streets to have a decent life!
"You can tell it to me. I learned short hand."
"Fair enough." (Tom looked a little bit impressed with her)
"Dear Mr. Churchill..."
Lizzie was astounded.
"Is your pencil broken?"
"No, do go on."
These scenes were the scenes that's only light to take and somehow a breath of fresh air and beacon of light to their dark and toxic relationship. I hope she loves her for who she is, and for the things she's done form him.
No one could have said it better.
You have inscribed it beautifully.
Best female character of the show. She deserves better, she deserves the fucking world. Lizzie honey give this man a divorce, take all his money and marry me. I will treat you like a queen and give you the whole fucking world!!!
HAHAHAHAHAH
I hope in the movie Tommy realizes how much he loves Lizzie, I hope he has to fight for her affections, he has put her through pure hell! Lizzie fan here for sure
Oh yes.. 🤧😭🙌
Yes
in my opinion lizzie is special, because she is so incredible and strong. Deserves a person who loves her and makes her feel unique and magnificent, just like she is
I’m sorry about Tommy, but he’s not his type, he’s trying so hard to make it look like
I did not like the episodes of grace. Its character is so basic and simple, boring.
I did not like the episodes of grace. Its character is so basic and simple, boring. She didn’t have to betray Tommy or make him feel a little inferior; when she died, I don’t say I liked it but the story became more interesting and more beautiful.
Lizzie did not try to change Tommy, in any way; she had fallen in love with the real Tommy. Instead grace tried to change it. that’s what I also liked about Alizzie, she loved him the way he was, but unfortunately with Tommy it wasn’t so.
People only hate Alizzie because he 'replaced' grace, but it’s not really so in my opinion, she just wanted Tommy to give more attention and that he thought sometimes, as he said in the sixth season. People don’t have to think that she’s obnoxious or anything, she’s so peaceful and has a fantastic character despite her past
I want to see Lizzie and Tommy togather again in next peaky blinders season! I'm rooting for them. Lizzie is too precious...
lets be honest here lizzie deserves better. thomas treated her like shit
She an example how a woman what was called and viewed by everyone the lowest thing in society became a woman for respect by her own (not with force but slowly with time) because she has a true humanity in her. Tommy doesn't deserve her, he literally use her and its sad to watch how she doesn't see it or ignore it
She ignores it. Because she loves him she's willing to stick with him even though most of the time, Tommy treats her like shit. But I feel like Lizzie's growing tired of him too. I'm still hoping they'll end up together but I guess Lizzie will just come in her right state of mind and leave him. Idk yet.
Who respects a sex worker?
@@aleli9204 And Liz left him
Istg lizzies trama is ignored just as much as tommys bro fought in a ww1, has mental issues, has been shot, suicidal thoughts, ptsd, suffered severe hemorrhage, attempted suicide 3 times, had his own wife get shot before his eyes, his daughter died of TB, and yet he still tries his best even tho he stresses himself way to much in business which then makes him so moody and angry all the time which therefore causes him to lack simple respect for his own wife because of all the shit he's been thru and the shit he's going thru. I get that lizzies also been thru alot but don't antagonize tommy bec not once did he ever compare his trama with lizzies to get her to feel bad for him
@@aleli9204 I have been Lizzie(not the whore part lol) so I know exactly how this kind of relationship feels. It's hot, great sex and a few moments of raw emotions and kindness but for the most part. It hurts!
You catch a glimpse of what he could be during those nice moments and hold on to them. You tell yourself if you just give him time, space or more affection then things would change even though they never will. Until eventually you burn out from constantly giving so much, overlooking so much. The person does something that makes you finally see them the way they see you. That's when you leave and they always let you go. Why? because you never meant as much as you thought you did to them.
I really feel for Lizzie. She's always there for Tommy.
That scene with John consoling her broke my heart into pieces. 😭
"What happened to you?"
"Fell over."
She really love Tommy despite of everything. Sometimes I wish she find another man and leave Tommy behind. But I still want them to end up together! 😭😭😭
She was dating Angel Changretta but because Tommy is Tommy, he ordered Lizzie to break up with him and even burnt down his restaurant. Poor Angel got killed in the end.
@@MybabyboyIra why did he
@@sohaila7642 yeah, why did he?
@@MybabyboyIra @Sohaila In an interview after season 4 aired, the actress Natasha (Lizzie) said Tommy is possessive and doesn't like it when she goes with other men, that's why her Italian boyfriend got the peaky cut. Tommy is jealous and possessive when it comes to her is what the narration is implying
@@MM-wb6qm but that’s nasty tho ! He treats Lizzie like his “possession” , telling her that she “ belongs to him and that he owns her “ that he “ still pays her in his head “ and he doesn’t trust other men around her b/c of her past which he showed at the the party with Mosely where Tommy fuKt her in the pantry so she wouldn’t “go with other men” , it’s kind of a sad life for Lizzie to be under coercive control. He got her former boyfriend blinded and killed because he didn’t want her dating a foreigner and didn’t want them to show up at Grace’s wedding, but then he goes with foreign women like Grace who was from Dublin and Tatiana who was from Tiblisi . So it was ok for him to sleep with foreign women and hookers but Lizzie can’t even go on a date ? He also stopped her from marrying his brother
Tommy and Lizzie understand each other There good together he helped her she helps him Lizzie loves tommy
Oh shut up they both love themselves
Yes she loves Tommy but Tommy don’t love Lizzie because he thinks on grace .he will always love her so in season 5 he still thinks of her.
@@fundacarikci1563 and let’s not forget the guilt he had after grace died. That’s also one of the reasons he can’t move on.
@@nabihasabri4262 well he needs to let it go n stop punishing other women for her demise ! Like the way he speaks to Lizzie and the way he grabbed Tatiana by the throat
@@AliAli-nu1nr 😂🤝
Lizzie is a survivor. She loves Tommy .
I think the grace vs Lizzie thing is clearly represented with the children when Tom kills the horse; Charlie is like grace, he doesn’t understand nor accepts toms gangster life and wants to change him; ruby stays calm and doesn’t get overly upset like Charlie and is more understanding
She’ll probably be the one who inherits toms brains lol
Oohhh! Nicely put ! Maybe because Ruby is younger so she doesn’t really take into account the whole concept of “death” and just accepts it for what it is , maybe she is more sheltered from Tommy’s gangster life whereas Charlie is older and hears and sees things like when Aberama and Johnny Doggs came up to his house all guns blazing
@@supernova7848 you’re right..while Charlie is having a tramtum of “you shoot horses,you shoot people!”...while Ruby asked her dad “Why did you shoot him (horse)? means she wants first to understand what is going on..very wise for her age
Well…. Tommy’s feelings towards his wife is also represented via the children…. how he worries and bothers to go and pacify Charlie but doesn’t even bother to respond to Ruby!!
Agree. Its a bit like the godfather. The son is the more sensative one wanting out of the criminal life..the daughter is for it...I hope to see more of the kids dynamic in the next series.
Yes! We could clearly see that Ruby is a bit ahead of her age. Doesn't whine like a crybaby. Even Tommy's a bit neglectful of her, there's no denying she inherited her father's perception of things.
I just want tommy to realise how much he loves and cares for lizzie in season 6 because he does love her imo and I don’t care what other people say about their relationship. They belong together. I always think tommy only hallucinate over grace because he is guilty of her death and he longed for a normal life with her. But you see, you can’t change someone and that’s what grace tried to do, he wanted to change tommy’s way of living where lizzie accepts tommy for who he is, supports him and I’m sure tommy knows that. He does seem territorial and possessive over lizzie and some people say it’s not love but we never really know, eh? He is thomas shelby, even viewers can’t penetrate and comprehend the way he thinks but somewhere deep inside him I’m sure he feels much more for lizzie not just as his possession or property.
Actually the way he verbalized and treats Lizzie is actually great case study on coercive control and triangulation
@anapaul640because Lizzie stick with him no matter what happens, Grace, puts herself first that's what made her more desirable in his eyes
I think he liked Grace so much bc she represented something he thought was unobtainable. Let's face it. She was planted there undercover at the bar and stuck out like a sore thumb. She represented a life, family, unconditional love. She was "untouched" by that life and he wanted to keep it that way. He was always proving himself to Grace. She never asked or made him but it was almost as if he was protecting what he thought was her innocence. Then he found out she was sent in but had fell in love by then. Lizzie was the opposite. She came from nothing; sleeping around for money. Lizzie tried to fend for herself but it was man's world back then and she simply didnt have the luxury life Grace came from. Tommy looked down on that and used it to his advantage. He always gave the impression he was ashamed or disgusted with Lizzie. He was never MEANT to be with Grace. Any other circumstances, they would have never met each other. Now he longs for a love that will never come again. He settled for Lizzie and she accepts what's left. He was humbled quickly tho. Had it not been for Lizzie after Grace died, he probably would have went insane. Lizze always exhibited class and taking the high road then. She helped him mourn his love loss while he never cared deeply for her. Tommy was right. She's just property.
Grace was touched by the life. She lied, had hatred in her heart, knew huge loss, killed people. On paper they werent right for each other. But the war changed Tommy and losing her father changed Grace. That is why Tommy he fell in love. Because they were the same , they could talk, they could understand each other.
@@ejenny21 Grace became that way AFTER what happened to her father. Before then she was untouched. When she finally got what she wanted and felt she avenged her father, she went right back to yearning and desiring that "high" life she came from.
@@roseybud2821 Her father death changed her forever and there was no going back. She told Campbell the revenge thing because she wanted him to let her go without asking question. In truth she let go of her revenge because she found Tommy. if she wanted the high life then she would have loved her husband. But she only loved Tommy.
@@ejenny21 well said!
And I hate him for that. You worded it out perfectly that I almost felt the pain I felt when I first watched PB. I'm itching to know when will Tommy reciprocate the love Lizzie has given him. Or if he'll never come to that point, then don't keep her close. Even if Lizzie insists, he must not let it. He shouldn't keep someone close then treat her like shit for no reason at all.
Tommy may love Grace more than Lizzie. But for me... Lizzie is >>>>> Grace.
She's literally there for Tommy since the beginning. And the fact that she treats Charlie as her own child makes me admire her more.
These 2 definitely have a deeper love, thick as thieves. She accepts him for him, never wanted to change him like grace...
Firstly he doesn't love her. Secondly grace didn't want to change him she just wanted him being out of trouble. He wanted the same. And he wanted to keep his family safe and start legal business. She wanted the same. They both wanted the same
I think Tommy truly is a ladies man & he loves all of them & lusts after them, but in different ways! . I mean in the beginning with Grace, he didn’t treat her that well. He told he her he knew she was lying & he set her up with Billy Kimber, he tested her & put her through some trials & tribulations. Lol
@@MsKatkitty proper playa, playa, that Shelby guy! 😁
@@_vvvalerie_6776 exactly!!! I don’t understand why people are so negative about grace... and keep saying she wanted to change him!!! U put it well... she just wanted him out of trouble and he wanted them to be safe!!!.... infact people forget in season 1 he was the one who tries to stop her from leaving... telling her he is going to shut down his illegal business... even after he finds out who she is.... he tells her that he will throw the gun in the canal someday.
@@pixiedust0828 throw the gun in the canal ?? But ends up with a whole arsenal of weapons in his house 🤣🤣🤣
I love Lizzie she’s one of my favourites, I always rooted for her and Tommy. Hated Grace never understood people’s fascination with her, she was boring and annoying.
I totally agree with you. Not only was she boring, she was also absolutely horrible to her first husband. She didn’t deserve any sort of happy ending, and I hated that she and Tommy ended up together (plus, Polly hated her, and that says a lot)
Yes, i agree with you.
I agree!
Same!
SAME
Hopefully in Season 6 Tommy reciprocates the love Lizzie has for him. In my opinion, Lizzie and Tommy are a better couple and can be even better if Tommy loves her back
YES !!
Facts
I agree
Pretty sure he cares for her. He speeds up Mosley killing because he insulted her
@@qqq386 yeah, after saying he's still paying her in his mind and that she's his property. He's possessive alright, but not in the good way...
Lizzie - what stunning character development. I am rooting for her to come out on top. Lizzie is it for Tommy for sure, he knows it, he is getting there slowly but surely.
I like Tommy and Lizzy better than Tommy and Grace because imo it seems like Lizzy truly loves him without all the mind games and betrayal.
Yeah well Tommy doesn’t seem to like Tommy and Lizzie as much as Tommy and Grace. Again for the point the show likes to make about female empowerment they write kid of shitty for the women sometimes except Polly. And Ada.
When Empowerment means being deceived again and again leaking information, being a burden them leaking information again them yeah, btw Esme should have married Thomas she was damm cleaver but Jhon was no King
@@Collins1118 lol true that... even tommy doesnt like tommy and lizzie 😂😂 and yeah i agree the writing... i didnt like what was done to grace’s character compared to s1.. and i also think her character would have overpowered polly when it came to influencing tommy and she could be a badass but instead just made her cute wife kept away from real stuff..also jessie eden... he just made a joke out of her.. such a smart women being used like that.. absolutely irrational
But he doesn't love back so it's a one sided relationship, unlike with Grace.
We can criticize her all we want but what they had was unique just because it was corresponded between both parts. She loved him and he loved her, unlike what happened with any other woman Tommy touched or actually used (like on Lizzie's case).
Tommy may not love Lizzie, NOT YET. We still have one season to figure everything out.
"-u said "spring"?
+Lizzie, what comes after winnter?"
I love that scene, her smile just cheers me up
After I finished the last episode, I felt really really sad for Lizzie. She’s a good wife and a great mother for Charles and Ruby. Tommy put her through way too much. He didn’t even look sad when Lizzie told him she already packed and removed the wedding ring. My heart completely broken. However, I wish they’re back together as a family again in the film 🤍
😢😢
idk what the people in the comments are saying about Tommy not loving Lizzie. Lizzie is his best friend on this show in my eyes. he loves her beyond a romantic and sexual level. if you don’t think he cares about Lizzie you are lying to yourself.
Tommy paid her for sex I don't think that's beyond sexual romance
@@catalyst.4664 because she was a prostitute. he didn’t meet her and ask her to be that.
@@catalyst.4664that was before Lizzie was introduced as a major character
I feel like Lizzie has gone through so much character development and I feel like she and Thomas really do love each other but I’m just not convinced it will ever be romantically. He is nowhere near as in love with her as he was grace, and they’re only together for Ruby’s sake. I’d of preferred if they bought in a new character altogether instead of trying to make Lizzie fit the description
Yes me too, someone smoking hot 😜
@@217lijana tom and lizzie arent together r they?
@@SirSlime399 well you need to watch and see, I don't want to spoil it for you 😋
yea I feel like they love eachother only cuz they’ve been there for eachother since day 1 but he will never love her like he loved grace EVER
^ This exactly this!
I love Lizzie, she came from far but she was good and loyal to Thomas she was the one that had him when hè was broken! I think they love eachother more then we all think.. ♥️
Ugh Lizzie deserved John and he would have still be alive if he with her. Lizzie deserved John’s love.
Yes! I hate Tommy for what he did. He knew Lizzie will never say no to him and he used that opportunity! If he hadn't meddle with their relationship, John won't die, Grace won't die, and Lizzie will receive the amount of love she truly deserve! That one moment, we never knew, could be a catalyst to such a lot of changes.
Is it just me who likes Lizzie better than Grace, or any other woman who were interested in Tommy? 🤔🤔
Grace was a two faced liar and we're supposed to ignore that just because he loved her. Lizzie is what she is. No sides. Just her. That takes guts
Exactly! I really don't get it! 🤣🤣🤣 Crime is a crime, sin is a sin. But with Grace, she'll be worshipped forever like a virgin goddess because Tommy loved her! Wtf!!!
It doesn't matter she's a liar or Lizzie is honest
The thing matter's is Tommy love Grace
And ya Lizzie deserve someone better than him.
Did anyone else think Grace’s singing voice was okay, but not great? I always wondered if we were supposed to think her singing was special.
i got second hand embarrassment from her singing
@@fateha9686 me too
Thought it was bloody awful myself! Lol
Her voice was awful actually
agreed hahaha, it was supposed to be so good that it enchants all the men in the pub but all I think about is “girl, just come down before you embarrass yourself further”
Wow I forgot how badly they talked about her in season 1
And everything they said about her Was a fact.
Grace and Lizzie are completely different. The most important difference is that the first was a wife and the last is a real partner. I grew up with Lizzie has she chose this life (as she said) and she doesn’t want to change Tommy. With Grace couldn’t last so much let’s be real ... you could see it from the wedding party. Anyway this show is AMAZING - looking forward for season 6
Yes! Guess some people couldn't understand the difference between wants and needs. 🤷♀️
Omg I thought I was the only one that liked Lizzie and Tommy.😩 I just hate that he told her he still pay for her cuz I thought they was going sum where 😕
We are a few who shipped them! ❤ Hope in s6, Tommy starts to realize who's been there for him since the beginning. Before it's too late.
In which episode he said that
@@aleli9204 in which ep he said that
@@snehapatra6977 I think it's season 5 episode 2
There's a saying, sometimes a person (Tommy) get what he NEED (Lizzie) NOT what he WANT (Grace). Maybe....becuz God (the writers & creator) knows better.
...speechless! 🙏 Thank you for this!
agree! sometimes what we want is not what we need, and sometimes we don’t even realized what we need because we are too blinded by what we want. perfectly describes the Toy Lizzy Grace fiasco
Sadly in Tommy’s story, he got what he NEEDED (Grace) and also what he WANTED (Grace) but God (SK) wants to prolong the story and unfortunately inserted the UNwanted and UNneeded (Lizzie)
Yes! That's true! I hope SK is true to his words that at the end of the series, Tommy will realize that he loves his wife and his family. I will hold on to that simply because he's the writer of the show! He knows everything, the reason behind it, and why some characters in the series aren't meant to be at the end of it! ❤
Grace is overrated. Tommy loved her so much and she made him very happy, but she is a very underdeveloped character. It makes me indifferent.
True
Same
ugh finally someone said that, i feel like she was somehow interesting in season 1 and her storyline from there was boring and unlikely to Tommy since he is such a honorable man
Yah... After the marriage her personality shifted a bit,it was kinda weird tbh... But thn u know wat happened..
M E she was blonde and pretty. That’s why people like her.
I’m about to watch season 5 and I don’t know yet whether I like him better with Grace or Lizzie. It’s clear that Lizzie loves him to death but until now I just feel like he doesn’t appreciate it enough. It’s also obvious to me that the last time he was truly happy was when he was with Grace but you can see he cares about Lizzie a lot. I haven’t made up my mind yet but I guess I haven’t seen enough.
I'm about to watch s5 too , but I know that i like him better with lizzie because she truly loves him and cares about him but he is just so blinded with grace's love ... and yes he cares about lizzie alot but he doesn't love her . May be he will marry her because she will get pregnant only . I hope he loves her
@ yeah that's too disappointing
She just a mother of his son and a good friend to him, no more
How can you appreciate someones love if you don't love him back?
Tommy once said to Grace, I need you. He also hadn't seen Grace for years after she left. Lizzie has always been there for Tommy and always will. That's why he doesn't appreciate her. He's never afraid of what might happen to her...until Oswald appeared. Hopefully he will snap and realize the woman who's always been there for him. She truly gave up everything for him. If anyone had done that for me, the moment my dumb ass realizes, I'm running straight to her and giving my heart to her bc there's no way I can repay her for all the things she's done for me. I hope season 6 or 7, ends with Tommy realizing family is the most important thing and not his wild ambitions. Maybe he almost loses Lizzie, a thought that never crossed his mind before. And then realizes how much she meant to him.
A man like Tommy will only have a great love once. Its not easy for him to allow himself to fall in love so when he does, he gives a part of his soul to the person, reserved only for that person. So no, he'll never love Lizzie the way he loves Grace. Not that he doesn't Lizzie because he does. But I believe as a person, as someone who is always in his corner, as someone who will take care of his home and kids, but not necessarily the romantic, she is a part of me type of love.
And Lizzie, she a great woman. I love her character arc and how she has grown into her own. She is loyal to Tommy, smart, beautiful, and knows how to look the other way. But Lizzie deserves better. She deserves the type of love Tommy will never be able to reciprocate. She too should have in a partner what Tommy requires in his, what he gave to Grace. Lizzie is phenomenal.
Lizzie is the one who really understand tommy but tommy always take her for granted and he just sees her as his property. I hope that in S6 tommy will realize how lizzie love him since the beginning.
Love Lizzie. Great character, and a good match for Tommy. I am rooting for these 2, they have so much potential!
No one ever noticed how many times Tommy says her name throughout all the seasons and every time I melted
Nicely done. Their story is so compelling and its non linear which makes it interesting.
Being with a hurt person is sometimes a blessing for they understand suffering and rejection.They no nothing like lust and pleasure all they seek is love and life.
Both Lizzie and Grace are perfect in their own ways for Tommy. I wish we see Tommy being more emotionally close to Lizzie in Season 6, can't wait!
Love both his queens
She is much prettier and more elegant than Grace, incomparably beautiful and very charming, but she did not receive the attention she deserves. 🥺
Grace is a ghost of death,Lizzie is life
Not sure why but I can’t seem to find anyone other than myself who likes Lizzie and Grace. I believe that nobody could compare to Grace and she was Tommy’s one true love. However Lizzie also did help out Tommy. They’re both good people.
I love Grace and like Lizzie in season 2 but not with Tommy and don like her in season 5.
@@MsRouxe same!!
I used to like Grace a little. But as the series progressed I just couldn't stand her. 🤷♀️
You guys forgot the part where Tommy told lizzie "on this day in this room at this time I want to tell you I love you"
I need him to love her back. I know the creators said the point of graces death was so that Tom couldn't be happy but I honestly think he is going to die in season 6 so it will be fitting for him to show his love for Lizzie and then we see his death.
Nope, there gonna be a movie.
He doesn’t die producer already said he’ll be fine I think ada or Michael might die
If he kills himself on S6 chances are Tommy is gonna end himself over the loss of Grace and close family. But as it's stated above there's gonna be a movie...
Then you'll be Waiting forever.
@@MsKatkitty when?
I feel like if he doesn't love her than dont keep her around let her go just stop with the games because clearly she's in love with him and he's just taking it for granted and she deserves better than that just let her go if you dont want her... But looking at this couple it makes me wonder he may be in love with her but he doesn't say it or show it or maybe hes scared of loving agian because of what happened to grace
I think he is very much attached to her, she does keep him grounded and sane, as sane as he can be. but he still can't let go of Grace. Not only the love but also the guilt
@@Bellas61 He told her you belong to me, yet he throws her over the desk when he wants to make love, which is disrespectful, he still treats her like the old days. Tatiana treated him like that though.May he respects as an upper class trophy, Jessie Eden because he wanted to win her trust but yet too respects her. They al, have different meanings to him, but also like a knot has 8n his belt!
@@MsKatkitty yes ! True ! He was very rough with her when he wanted to make love . Even after Grace left to the US he made love with Lizzie in a very cold and dissassociating way , moving like a robot , just looking at the wall , then when he took her to the park he kept talking about his ex girlfriend and that’s when he gets her pregnant and then in Season 5 she says to him “can’t we at least make love in the bed” ?? I was like please what had been going with these 2 ??? Isn’t she supposed to be his wife ? You are right about Tatiana, Tatiana was in the Alpha position in her interactions with Tommy he looked soft vulnerable next to her , she gave him a bit of his own medicine
Love Lizzie. She is a fuckin survivor
The agony of supposed unrequited love (Lizzie)...but if he understood love, he’d know how much he needs and loves her. He’s just so blind. What’s the song? Only know you love her when you let her go?
To build a home is the song
That's exactly what I thought. 👍
Cinematic Orchestra To build a home
Its the song "let her go" by the passenger
@Kimberly A 👍 👌 👏
I like lizzie more than grace.. .and I hope in s6 we could see lizzie more with Tommy and Tommy love lizzie like he love grace
Lizzie deserves Tommy's love rather than Grace.
Grace was the only woman he ever loved.
Grace was Tommy's idea of "ideal love" where everything seems to be perfect, but Lizzie is Tommy in every aspect. Both rough, both flawed, both scarred. It really saddens me that Tommy might not love Lizzie the way he loved Grace but he could at least respect her, be her husband, and love their daughter (in a way that he love his son).
@@aleli9204 wtf? the creator himself said that Grace was the only one he loved, and even after her death or after he married Lizzie, he still thinks of her as the love of his life,she will always be his love, even if he meets or marries other women. What he feels for Lizzie is not love, he's just needy and needed someone to be the mother figure for his,she will always be his love, even if he meets or marries other women. What he feels for Lizzie is not love, he's just needy and needed someone to be the mother figure For your child.
@@Lili_ds i'm not against Grace being Tommy's one true love. She can have that title all for herself and bring it wherever she is now. What i'm saying is that, Tommy should somehow AT LEAST show some tenderness towards Lizzie. As i said, I know HE WILL NEVER LOVE Lizzie the way he loved Grace but THAT IS NOT an enough reason for him to treat her like a piece of shit. As if Tommy boy didn't benefit from Lizzie's undying love for him.
@@Lili_ds the writer is promoting toxic love and pickme-ism ! He writes a storyline where Tommy keeps pining over a dead woman while intoxicated on drugs n alcohol, then treats his actual wife like a piece of shit and keeps her under coercive control ( “when u marry a Shelby you stay married” implying that she can’t leave him even if she wanted to ) you can see an even worse example of that when Arthur goes to beat the she shit out of Linda’s church friend Frederick and severely disfigured him leaving him with “ no face “ ! The only way Linda could escape from the violence was to resort to violence herself by trying to kill Arthur but Polly shoots her first . All the couples on the show are actually seriously flawed .
Lizzie #1 woman in this series
I think that possibly the hottest scene in Peaky Blinders is where Lizzie lays down the terms on which she will stay in the marriage. No other women in the house. No other women near Ruby. And, even as he is saying he still pays for it, she demands steady sex from him as part of the agreement. Because Tommy Shelby is hot. Good for Lizzie. And her takedown of Mosley's sexual prowess is epic.
Yes he loved her, but never in the same way he loved Grace, she was the one. And no matter how much he tries to make her like Grace, she never will be, and I think, deep down Tommy knows that, but having her around, almost makes it seem like she is Grace, she fills that void. But it´s not true love, he´s just trying to kill the sadness he feels by using her, and keeping her around so that he doesn´t fall apart, because he will never get Grace back.
Lizzie is a great character, interesting evolution on the show. BUT...she'll NEVER be Tommy's TRUE love (even with child and marriage). GRACE was the love of his life and in my POV the writers changer her personnality at the end of season 2 to kill her in season 3 without a lot of people missing her. The show is a drama, we know that Tommy will never be truly happy (especially with women) and that he caresabout Lizzie...but nothing compare to what he had with Grace in season 1 and the two years they had after that.
True! But i hope in next season there would be a woman (not lizzie ) he will love
Absolutely Agree
I belive Lizzie doesn't want and doesn't have to be Thomas' true love. I'm pretty sure she knew how Grace meant to Tommy's life, right from the start. That's why when she and Tommy got married, Lizzie tried to move on with another man (Angel Changretta) but things happened and now, Lizzie is the wife of Tommy Shelby. As I've said, and if I were Lizzie, I won't wish to have that title. The One True Love. No, she doesn't want that. Lizzie is another case. She deserves a brand new type of love, that is only meant for her and she shouldn't be placed in the shadow of a dead woman. She has her own CHARACTER and beauty and Tommy should reciprocate it with the love that is meant only for Lizzie. Not Grace.
Although i love and miss Grace, I think Lizzie is an amazing character and I hope her and Tom could find true love in each other bc they’re pretty cute
Grace was enough lucky as she got Tommy's deep love . But lizzie was used by tommy ,,, when grace left the world , tommy found the necessity of lizzie in his life as Lizzie was always there like a shade to support Tom in anykind of situation. When tommy said to lizzie: "some nights it was you who saved my heart from breaking " I got suddenly so much emotional thinking about the character Lizzie.
Couldn't agree more. I hope in season 6 they got the ending they deserve. If tommy doesn't have any plans of loving Lizzie, he must let her go. He's an asshole for keeping her close and treating her like shit!
You wonder if john ever felt awkward about the whole thing, lizzy being with tommy, after tommy shut down Johns relationship with her.
Like John said she has a hard life and needs someone . I like Lizzie because she is loyalty to Tommy and she always love him not like Grace. Grace only came back to Tommy because she had his child.
And no she came back because she loved him
@@_vvvalerie_6776 yup we watch the same show!!
I honestly feel sorry for Lizzie. It's obvious how she's been in love with him for years, yet Tommy never reciprocated - yes, even after they got married. I think he wouldn't even have married her if it wasn't for Ruby. I believe he - sort of - respects her, cares for her on his own way, is grateful that she's a good mother for his children, but that's far from love. Grace left a hole in his heart that no one will ever be able to fullfill. I wish Lizzie could find someone that would genuinely love her, and she'd love that person too - even though it feels kind of impossible now.
I don't know but as I watch season 6 I feel like at the end, Lizzie will just go and break free from Tommy. I absolutely don't want that but Lizzie seemed to be so tired of all the bullshits. I really wish her the best of everything.
Lizzie is the one for Tom. Always has been always has been.
Damn, what a journey this show has taken I forgot Lizzie and John were a thing. Lizzie was such a badass and strong character despite her past.
2:14 on this part I think John still loves Lizzie
I think he loved Esme, but because he and Lizzie used to date he still very much cared for her. That is diffirence between Tommy and John...John saw how kind and loyal Lizzie was even when she was prostitute and had nothing. Tommy saw her just like some mattress he can lay on.
Lizzie dated angel changretta. The peaky boys killed angel resulted to the italians coming back. In restrospect, tommy cared for lizzie maybe not as deeply inlove as he is with grace. He stopped john marrying lizzie, by marrying john to esme. He stopped, lizzie dating angel. And eventually impregnating her. :) i totally think that she deserves to be THE mrs thomas shelby. Not grace, grace betrayed tommy lizzie never did.
YAS
He stopped john from marrying lizzy because she was ready to sleep with another man when she was with john, he just wanted better for his brother( i don't like ezme) and he stopped lizzie from dating angelo because she worked on him and he didn' t want to mess with italians. That' s it. Yes grace betrayed him but it was in the past. she would never do that again to him
@@_vvvalerie_6776 she wasn't willing to sleep with another man. She was willing to sleep with him. And you can tell it wasn't about the money. They always had a bond. That's why Tommy stopped him. He wouldn't have access to her if she was married to his brother. Then he hires her to work for him and give up the lifestyle. The Same thing with Angel, his jealousy led to him killing Angel. And his killing Angel resulted in his losing Grace. And still, he runs to Lizzie. Still he ties himself to Lizzie. He may not know it. But he is connected and I do believe he's in love with Lizzie. Thomas Shelby does not tie himself to just anyone, baby or not. He could have told her to abort it. He didn't. He thought, one more tie to her. Not just the baby, but marriage. He keeps tying himself to her. He even said she stopped his heart from breaking. His jealousy drove him to try and kill the fascist sooner than he would have. And Lizzie is definitely one of the few people that is keeping him alive. That woman is his love. He's allowed a third love.
@@khadijahmuhammad3133 oh my god every word you say is bullshit and just your guesswork
@@_vvvalerie_6776 what would make a person like Thomas Shelby - his character - go and proposition her if he could have sent anyone else. If she was a woman of coin and not interested in John, anyone else could have hired her. He then got her to quit and work for him. If he really didn't want her tied to him and his family, he would have let her be. He could have also hired her after John wanted to marry her. He didn't. He's very convenient with when he assists Lizzie and it is only to draw her closer to him. Then why cook up a beef with Angel when Arthur didn't want to. If he was the same level-headed, cool, rational man he is with everyone else, he would have ignored her dating him. This is not guesswork. You're just angry because I am correct and you have no response to it. Please don't do that. Either have proper feedback or ignore it. But if you analyzed a character, Tommy loves Lizzie. He's just haunted with guilt. And that guilt still wasn't enough to let Lizzie go. He married her. He confides in her. She knows his heartbreaks and they're natural, comfortable, honest with her. She's not on a pedestal. She's a partner.
Never liked grace. Partly because the character was so dull and mostly because Annabelle wallis can't act for shit. They should stop bringing her back as a ghost.
Thank god Im not alone! Its annoying to watch her. The rest of the cast kill it even in small parts.
Totally agreed. I just watched the whole series and was so happy when I thought she would never come back after Season 1... only to be let down in Season 2. I was honestly not sad at all when she finally died. The ghost thing is annoying af.
I wish they had shown way more scenes with the two of them... or actually more scenes relationship wise for the whole cast and not just political talk allll the time ..🤷🏼♀️ there is so much to explore in these complex relationships with rich characters
I still and probably will never understand how Tommy can supposedly “fell in love” with Grace in season 1 when he hardly talked to her except when he used her as bait for Kimber. In my eyes, they have 0 chemistry and still don’t. I am still confused on how quickly he “fell in love” when he is so calculating and hard trusting people.
I still believe that the writers just want to push the cliché trope of gang leader fell in love with spy women, all this forbidden love type of stuff or the other trope on how he’s the broken bad boy (since the trauma from the war) and she’s a good girl who can somehow “fix” him or make him more “good” when I think the whole point of this movie is about a gang and he’s not supposed to be good.
I feel like they only make him love Grace to sort of make the audience see him as “oh he loves the girl so much, he can’t be that evil, he still has some humanity in him left”
I agree! Humanity means loving all people! Not just 1 the one person you put on a pedestal .. he treated the other women like crap and tried to stop Freddie from marrying Ada and John from marrying Lizzie just because he had stopped believing in love it doesn’t mean that he had the right to stop other people, even threatened Ben Younger. As Ada said everything he touches gets burned. Only Tatiana got away Scott Free !
@@supernova7848 yes and the only reason Tatiana got away scotched free was bc she decided to pull herself out of there, to save herself. Look at Grace with her banker husband, she could be happy and criminal life free but nope, she chose danger lmao
Couldn't agree more! That's also the reason why they killed her character. SK said Tommy was never meant to be happy. More like the idea of Grace doesn't fit the series. Notice that all of the storylines are realistically made, gangsters, sinners, prostitutes, totally mirror what the story tries to depict. The protagonist was cold, unfazed, calculating, wise, and traumatized because of the war then suddenly, a rich girl who's secretly a spy, came along. And all of a sudden the protagonist is stupid enough not to figure out that she's a snitch! Not only that, with few interactions, few conversations, mediocre singing, the gangster's already in love!!!! Oh please! 🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️
@@aleli9204 don’t get me started on the singing lmao. i thought it was supposed to be so good that it enchants everyone in the pub but throughout all of it the only thing i’m thinking is “girl get down from there and stop embarrassing yourself”
and yes!! i mean if they flesh out her character more and make them get to know each other better then make them hook up at atleast season 2 or 3 i would have accepted it but no.. this man has ptsd from war, he’s a gang member who is very calculating just somehow fell in love with a woman he barely talked to lmaoo this is why i prefer him with lizzie bc atleast they have history
Him not clocking Grace was a HUGE oversight in the script for me ! He managed to clock the Russian spy, he clocked the IRA guy , he clocked the creepy priest , he was always suspicious of Tatiana , he clocked Mickey and even shot him for his betrayal !! But somehow could not clock Grace ?? Even when he said he asked around and no one knew of her at the pub she claimed to have worked at and also clocked her in the Church ! And he still could not figure that she was the mole all along ? Him Only making up a story about Grace running away from home and having had an abortion? Polly had to tell him that Grace was in fact the mole !! 😂😂😂 He should have been thinking with his other head not the one in his trousers ! What type of self respecting Gangster marries the neighborhood Snitch? 😂
what we need is some damn character development for this two cause i need tommy to go gaga for lizzie.
Lizzie iz my favourite Lady character in the show ❤
i hope their relationship gets better in s6❤
i always liked Lizzie.
After season 6 this hits different 😪
Fuck literally 💔💔💔🤧
Grace is dead.
Lizzie is his wife now.
Clear~!
I actually like tommy & lizzie more than tommy & grace. Yes grace was interesting in season 1 but not so much after...
I was curious about where will tommy & lizzie's relationship go when she show us her interest towards tommy. Also i think lizzie and tommy had more trust and understanding.. also after grace died i think tommy felt more of guilt than love that's why he kept thinking about her, idk...just my opinion.
Agreed, he even travelled all the way to wales after her death for absolution. He needed to know its not his fault that she died so that he can move on. Its the guilt that is still causing him misery more then anything.
I feel like Lizzie is more understanding of his life style and can handle his choices and respects him for it
@@maureenpeart8000 that's what i like about them. By the way when will season 6 come out?
@@maureenpeart8000 didnt she ask him to “get away from my house.. get away from my child” .. what exactly is she understanding and accepting here!?!
@@allthetiredhorses5229 gosh! You seriously have to read between the lines! You take everything literally. What she meant by that is Tommy and his shenanigans shouldn't reach where Lizzie and their children live!
It's her daughter's birthday! Charles is on the doorway about to witness everything! There are men outside ready to kill each other! No one will stand for them and that's the reason Lizzie came out with a gun!
"Get away from my house! Get away from my child! I don't want you back!" She's so mad at Tommy because he let that happen! His shit reached their children's doorstep!
Seriously? You all like to make Lizzie look bad! You're busy hating without analyzing the situtation. She cared for a child that's not hers more than Tommy! He's so dazed with his Peaky world that he let that happen! Without even thinking that his children might be in danger too!
Tommy will never love Lizzie the same way he did with Grace and that is just a fact. However, Lizzie is his "property" and although people would feel indignant of that notion of a person, that's just how Tommy's brain works now and for me that is enough. This was in the 1900's and men, however gentlemanly they conduct themselves has always been misogynistic in a way. I don't want him to just realize that he loved Lizzie just because Tommy is not Tommy without his reservations. He may not love Lizzie but he respects her and he's said it several times that essentially she saved him from breaking. In contrast, Grace broke his heart completely. Lizzie, is just there sometimes to put a bandage on it.
I agree- she may be the only character besides Arthur that truly deserves a better life and I love Tommy so that for me is saying a great deal...
I'm so excited for Lizzie in S6! I hope she steps up.. I would like to see some wife vs wife (Gangster vs. Aristocrat) against Diana Mosley! That would be fun to watch!!
Absolutely agree, the Mosleys were a force together, and Tommy Lizzie as a power couple head butting with them will be fantastic, tension between the 2 classes.
@@MM-wb6qm I know!! Can't fucking wait!!
I bet Tommy will try to get in Diana’s pants
John really loved Lizzie
He really lived Esme too. He was looking more for a wife & a mother for his kids, but he respected her more than Tommy did. He’d be rolling 8n his grave knowing his brother married her instead, surprised he hasn’t had dreams of John saying did you stop me from marrying her so you could have her for yourself Tommy!
Wtf
@@MsKatkitty not really SK has explained that scene was purely to test Lizzie, he genuinely wanted to give them a chance but lizzie chose money! Also John did his own investigation and found out she was sleeping with other regulars too so Tommy had nothing to do with that!
S6 is just around the corner, wonder what is in store for Tommy and Lizzie. This series is said to be so dark. I'm so tired of all the depression and unhappiness in this show. Hoping for some light in the end. Fingers crossed!
Anyone else sad that Lizzie didn’t end up with John
Lily Snape omg me, like he was even going to marry her first in season one and I just feel like they clicked emotionally more than her and tommy
grace miller exactly even in season 2 after the incident at the races John was just so nice and natural with her like ahh they were meant to be I’m convinced
me
Honestly, I liked John better with Esme. She matched his crazy. Lizzie never loved John, he just was her only chance at a normal life.
yes, you know who should be with whom and your username confirms it!
Lizzie doesn't deserve Tommy's status but Tommy doesn't deserve Lizzie's love
I KNEW he'd end up with Lizzie in the end. Great actress.
Agree. She is absolutely brilliant. I think she has a big role in s6..cant wait.
She is indeed a great actress! ❤
Lizzie just wanted to be loved tbh. She loved Tom, and she was more trustworthy than grace. Too bad Tommy couldn't love her like she did him or like she deserved to be loved. He couldn't get over grace
Lizzie is so strong. I love more Lizzie than Grace sorry
I love Lizzie more than grace..
Same
Lizzie and Tommy for real!
I loved tommy with lizzie more than tommy with grace.
My favourite character is Lizzie 🖤