Vincent Kartheiser is truly such a brilliant, hugely underrated actor. His performance in these last episodes is so nuanced and heartbreaking and real. Especially in that hostage scene, he's just amazing. His face looks so dead and empty and lost and then there are these flashes of total agony and anger and he seems so so young. "You let him get me." People definitely don't give him enough credit for the beautiful work he did on this show.
Vincent later stated he hated the character of Connor and wanted to stop playing the role after a few episodes, since all he did was skulk around angrily and argue. He found it all very one-note and unlikeable.
@@arc7375I NEVER understood why they did that with Connor’s character? There were SUCH GOOD writers on that show, how did they fail the actors & character so poorly. Even Doyle in 9episodes had more growth than him.
Especially pointing out the poor writing until the last couple of episodes that caused him to be so disliked. Such a waste of a great charater premise and fantastic actor.
Sofie tends to understand things a lot deeper than most on their first watch. Things that people don't get until watching a couple times, Sofie gets on the first watch
I always loved Connor. From my first watch. It helped that I could always identify with him and what he was going through, for personal reasons. And I always disagree when people bring up "bad writing", because I don't think it was at all. I think people just hated Connor not liking/trying to kill Angel and the stuff with Cordelia, both Angel and Cordelia being favorite chrs, not to mention Angel/Cordy being a popular ship, and it transferred to them hating Connor. But I feel like people just slap on the "bad writing" tag when they don't like something. Just because you don't like something doesn't make it bad writing, just because you don't like a character doesn't make them a bad chr or their actor a bad actor.
It’s heartbreaking to think that S4 opens with Angel’s toast “to family” with Connor in his dream, and ends with a real toast “to family” from Connor with his new family, while Angel watches.
When Angel was faced with the meaninglessness of the fight against evil, he found his mantra "Nothing we do matters, so all that matters is what we do". When Connor was faced with the meaninglessness of the fight against evil, it broke him so much he just wanted to end it all.
To be fair, twice when Angel gave up, "Fate" showed him life was worth living, with the snow storm in Amends, and him not losing his soul at the start of Epiphany. All Fate has done to Connor is dick punch him again and again and again and again and again without even a whiff of greater meaning or joy. I think most would eventually just want an end to that sort of suffering.
Yes, I agree! If the writers would have approached Connor's character as they did in the last two episodes, he would woule have been far more compelling and we could empathize with him.
I wish Connor had some of emotional scenes from the last two eps sprinkled throughout the whole season. The acting in the finale between Vincent and David was SO good.
While Connor may have always seen Jasmine's true form, he clearly was under her thrall, up until his blood is mixed with Cordelia's. Then his personality does a complete 180. He goes from a happy shiny person, to questioning everything that Jasmine tells him to do. You can the disappointment on his face, when the blood mixes and he realizes that everything is a lie. But then he chooses that this lie is better than the others.
Season 4 is... divisive, to be sure. But I'll tell you, Angel season 5 is probably my favorite Buffyverse season, period. 4 had to happen so we could get to 5.
Angel's deal is a lot like the one he made in season 1 with the Oracles, where he would be the only one who would remember (besides Lyla & probably the senior partners) who Connor was, but more than a day was taken, it was Connor's whole life from the point of his birth to his almost death.
I mean, Jasmine genuinely _did_ want to help and actively fight for the triumph of Good over Evil. But as a part of The Powers, she’s so far above all life on Earth that it’s like a human trying to treat an ant colony just as they would a human. She can’t. She’s like a gardener with her plants. There’s such a power imbalance because she’s so beyond earthly life that it’s impossible for her to meet anyone at their level. She’s not actually evil. But tell a flower that the pruning is for its own good, or the grass being cut on your lawn is for good maintenance. It’s the same thing. Edit: And much like a human tending to a garden, she eats humans the way a human eats plants. She’s only terrible from our perspective.
There is a phrase, attributed to Lenin: "You can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs." The implication is that, like Jasmine tells Angel, it's okay to murder thousands in order to save millions. A great many people (arguably with communist inclinations) still use that phrase today when they try to assert dominance (or domination) on others that insist on asserting their own free will. They see themselves as working towards a better world, and therefore they're not evil. As does Jasmine here, according to your explanation. But to return to the omelette metaphor: If you have to break a few eggs, that's one thing. But if you get a drop of blood into my omellette, it becomes inedible. (I'm into "the whole kosher thing", as Lorne puts it.) Which means you've broken the eggs, and gotten nothing worth having in return. Jasmine is actually evil, as are all those others who think it is worth it to kill thousands in order to save millions. And in fact, they end up murdering millions, and the survivors, hey live their lives under a tyranny, their free will trampled. What makes them human is stripped away. They are victims, who survived in spite of their oppressors, they who claimed to only want what's good for the little people. They haven't really been saved. TL;DR: Jasmine _is_ evil. She wants power, absolute power, and is willing to trample over everyone and everything to get it. What she wants to use the power for may seem altruistic and good and loving, but the juice is not worth the squeeze. Sorry, I'll be getting off my soapbox now.
@@KS-xk2so I agree. The writers were the true big bad of this season. Poor baby Connor! I always thought he should have been the only one to see and has to get everybody back on team good (basically give him Fred’s story)! I feel like that would have made people get back on team Big C
@@B-Dad There's no saving any of the Season 4 storyline honestly lol. Once Charisma got pregnant and Joss decided to take a big ssteamy shit all over Season 4 of his own show as revenge, it was completely doomed.
@@KS-xk2so It’s my favorite season. 🤷🏾♂️😂😂 I don’t love everything but there’s no other season that I cared more in the week to week watching. Not even Season 5 👍🏾✌🏾
@@B-Dad Personally I found Season 3 the best week to week... I couldn't miss an episode during the whole Holtz/pregnancy build up and pay off. Season 4 is strange to me. I call it the Schizo season, because it's either some of the best stuff we got, or TOTAL dogshit. Some individual moments or episodes are incredible, but large swaths of Season 4 suck so hard I have trouble not skipping during a rewatch. Pretty much everything Cordy or Connor related is just horrendously done. Angelus and Faith stuff rocks, mostly mixed success or failure across the rest of them.
Another cracking episode in Peace Out with Angel still trying to find Jasmine's real name in the other world. Connor eventually overpowers our gang, but just as he is about to behead Wesley she says to stop through one of the soldiers. Angel still fighting the demons to extract the name, and Gunn continually kicking the cage door to free them. I know Connor has been to a hell dimension etc etc, but he has betrayed Angel so many times it's just infuriating. Wesley as we know is great at working out solutions and here he realises that Cordelia cannot be harmed by Jasmine. Gunn eventually frees them all with constant kicking, and great bit of comedy here when he looks for thanks from the gang. When Jasmine is about to broadcast live it was great to see Angel appear with the head of the demon and cut his mouth with his final releasing the name and ending Jasmine's power over everyone. A really interesting conversation with Angel and Jasmine on the bridge with Jasmine saying that by killing thousands she would be saving billions who would be living in peace and paradise. Angel of course talks of free will, but Jasmine counters saying look at what choice has done and is still doing. We end on another cliffhanger with Jasmine getting killed by Connor in the end, and Connor running off again! When Angel get back to the hotel we have the bombshell of Lilah returning, but who is she, and what does she want, and message has she got. We shall see. All in all and action packed penultimate episode to S4.
In Home a total bombshell of an offer from the 'dead' Lilah offering the LA Branch of Wolfram & Hart to Angel and the team. A strange development indeed, but what a brilliant course for the show to take. Funny scene when the approach the massive Wolfram & Hart black limo and open the door and Lorne is already in there having a party. Again almost unreal when they emerge from the lift at the new offices and all the 'suits' saying 'Good Morning Mr Angel'. Again very funny when Lorne is being briefed by the W&H employee, rejecting him until he opens the book and Lorne swoons at the talent inside. When Fred get introduced to the R&D Science Dept guy, he immediately looks 'sus'. Of course it Jonathan M Woodward, who played Holden in BTVS Conversations With Dead People, as well as Knox here. Whedon constantly used actors in both shows playing different roles. One of the best scenes in this episode is when Wesley gets to his dept, a dream for him to be surrounded by such ancient volumes, again all too good to be true and he knocks out the W&H assistant cold. One of the most telling scenes in the whole Buffyverse when Lilah hands Angel the file and says ' that nifty little bobble comes with the file' that amulet seems so important at this point, interesting that the camera focuses back on the file with the amulet in it. Angel says 'Buffy can handle herself' but is it for Buffy? Lilah trying to tease Angel about Connor to accept the post, and a bit of light relief when she turns on the tv and Angel says is that 'high-def'. Gunn get the 'white button' treatment again in the lift, this time a mysterious black panther is the messenger. Wesley and Lilah meet again in the ultimate records room burning Lilah's contract. Connor, has finally snapped with true evil strapping up the whole place with bombs, again how many times has he betrayed Angel in this show! The fact that Connor is terrorising innocent people and children is hard to watch. Great satisfaction when Angel overpowers Connor and has him at his mercy, we see Angel strike the knife towards Connor but where is he. The team all decide to take the deal, and Lilah handing the amulet back to Angel very significant, but perhaps not in the way we think, brilliant plot line being layed here across both shows. We see Connor placed with the nicest family ever, and Angel looking on, now we know why Angel took the deal to give Connor peace and happiness. This is similar to Angel having to wipe Buffy's memory in I Will Remember You, where yet Angel alone has to suffer the emotional pain that has been his life as a vampire with a soul. An absolutely brilliant episode which sets up the best Season of the whole Buffyverse IMHO. The quality of writing and storytelling in this show was imperious. You will love Season 5. Enjoy!
Oh look, it's Lyla!! OK, I know this season wasn't everyone's favorite season, but there were some amazing moments and it had a very strong connection to season 3's craziness that really ends with this season finale. Season 5 will feel like a new era, but I won't spoil anything yet
@sebrussell I remember when it originally aired how weird I felt about it where before the other 3 seasons were pretty fantastic. Yet the last few episodes are among the best in the series, it's such an odd season for me.
@@nedzed3663 It's not all that mixed up in reality, when you know about Whedon's hate-boner for Charisma. Almost all the worst stuff this season was Cordelia related (generally dunking on her character), while most of the rest of the season is strong. The one outlier is Connor (barring those last couple of episodes). But even there, you can also see in Buffy with Dawn and the Potential Slayers that the Buffyverse writers had an ongoing problem writing 'young' characters (where 'young' means younger than the core cast, as they were fine when the main characters were young).
Great opening scenes to Sacrifice when Angel fires Connor out the window and he lands on the bonnet of the car. With the guys now on the run, everything seems to be against them. Amazing scenes too in the petrol station with Jasmine acting through ordinary members of the public trying to attack Angel and the gang. So creepy when Jasmine draws blood while holding Connors hand. The gang are lucky to gain some refuge in the sewer underworld with some of Gunn's ex-gang members. The look on Fred's face when Gunn knocks the kid out with a massive slap was priceless, he of course had to do this. Wesley, who is the cleverest of them all, tries to get Jasmine's real name from the scorpion demon. The demon is very strong, but Angel eventually kills him. Angel and Wesley now have the orb for Angel to enter the other world. Very sinister again with Connor turning up with the military and Jasmine laughing off the cuts and slashes she is receiving from the fighting of others. Can Angel work out how to defeat Jasmine, we shall see.
The end of this storyline came close to making up for the state of the season throughout, but not quite. There are still some gaping holes that need answering. If this was Jasmine's master plan, what was the point in the Beast? The Rain of Fire? Freeing Angelus? None of it tracks. Any any potentially interesting moral ambiguity that was raised in the peace vs freedom discussion was undermined by the fact that she was obviously actually evil, with the maggot face, maniac laughing and eating people thing. The Wolfram & Hart twist is hype af though, no denying that. And rewriting Connor's history was kinda the only way to conclude that mess, so glad they realized that.
The maggot face is a subjective thing. It's been _ages_ since they tried to teach us that"ugly doesn't necessarily mean evil"...this applies to Jasmine too. And I remember someone saying that all the bad things that happened before she was born were the equivalent of the planet having"the pain of childbirth"or something. The maniac laugh...yeah,that one I don't know how to justify it either.🤷♂But apart from that I *do* believe Jasmine was Good and Angel&co. destroyed world peace because of prejudice. #TeamJasmine 💙
Connor only wanted to have something to belong to, like a real family. And he said he knew Jasmine was a lie, but went along because it was the better lie in his opinion. He didn't seem to like the whole fighting evil lifestyle, even though he was suited for it with his strength and abilities. He could have joined up with team Angel and worked like a slayer. But that wasn't the sort of family he wanted to belong to. He acted disgusted with Angel bringing back evil to the world because he didn't want to have to fight against it like Angel does. Maybe he had enough of that in the hell dimension.
Yep! The father killed the son in the end. (Even by creating a new Connor with new memories that kills the real Connor. And isn’t Angel doing the same thing Jasmine did? Offering a better lie where someone isn’t suffering? But if real life is so awful then maybe that’s not such a terrible option?) Anyway, I know a lot of people hate this season but for me the Jasmine arc is worth it because it makes you think about all of this.
In Magic Bullet after the Angelus Saga, we now have the Jasmine Saga, which definitely has a undertones of 'Invasion Of The Body Snatchers' about it, in that you have one person against the everyone. I have to admit that in some ways this is a reflection on Religious TV Evangelists, who infect the minds of some without question. When Jasmine collects the group by telepathy, you can see how determind she is to find Fred by connecting with all people. When the man crashes his car in pursuit of Fred, and even whilst burning to death, we can see how evil Jasmine really is, she has now infected he whole population against Fred. Again when Wesley gives the speech looking for Fred, definitely a mirror on ridiculous Tele Evangelists. When Angel and Connor team up to sing Mandy, but change the name to Jasmine! 'pass the sick bucket'. When Jasmine makes reference to JFK dates, interesting to see Elie make the connection, in which older people would instantly recognise. Great scene when Fred launches the Magic Bullet than penetrates both Jasmine and Angel, and then he sees the real Jasmine. Fred unloads on Jasmine, and Connor still tries to defend her. Fred realises it is Jasmine's blood that is the key to people seeing the real her, Angel kisses her to try and fool the people after them. With Cordelia still in the coma Angel knows it is blood that will make the difference, and turn Lorne back. As Spike said is BTVS The Gift ' there always has to be blood'. Cordelia's blood has made the difference. Jasmine tells Connor she ate the people in her room, and he doesn't seem concerned. Again Connor betrays them again ( how many times has he betrayed Angel ). We end on a cliffhanger again. A great intense episode building towards the finale.
In fairness, I get Angel and his team choosing to run the L.A. Branch of Wolfram and Hart. I can see the potential of taking one of the most evil corporations since Umbrella. So that leaves plenty of room for next season.
Angel made ultimate sacrifice deal with Wolfram&Hart for his biological son Connor and his anchor/true love/Connor's surrogate mom Cordelia to save them by give Connor a new wonderful good normal life with The Reilly Family (Connor's adoptive parents Laurence Reilly and Colleen Reilly) and recover Cordelia from her coma. Connor have three moms in his life: his biological mother Darla, his surrogate mom Cordelia Chase, and his adoptive mother Colleen Reilly. Always sympathy and empath for Connor the most because he's victim of circumstances. Always disappointed in Joss Whedon for wronged all characters in BTVS tv show and Angel tv show.
Season Four has its problems, and a lot of big problems, but it ends strong, and Season Five is a great final season, with an amazing finale! You might to finish Buffy before going on to Season Five of Angel, but I can understand if you are hesitant to go through any more of Season Seven of Buffy (and yes, Kennedy somehow gets even worse).
Season 5 doesn't really go anywhere. You think it's going somewhere with Lyndsey but then it never does. Then you think its going somewhere with Illyria, but then doesn't. The Big Bad of the season ends up being a this big evil group consisting of a bunch of random characters from throughout the season, that we don't really care about. A lot of that had to do with the show getting cancelled and the ending being rushed, as it originally was supposed to be played out over two seasons. However, Illyria is a one of, if not the most badass character in the whole Buffyverse. Spike, you thought could have went somewhere, but he ends up just being the comic relief sidekick without any real purpose
@@alexh8613 You might want to give a spoiler warning first. I made sure my commentary was very general, even though there are multiple items I wanted to discuss in more specific details.
@@LordNifty Sofie finished season 5 of Angel almost a year ago. TH-cam is always behind, because it's a pain for reactors to edit their videos within the website's guidelines.
@12:07 I still think it's hilarious that the writers made Angel clumsy simply because David slipped while filming a scene during episode 21 of season 3 of Buffy and he and SMG reacted in character so it got left in the episode
@@arc7375 Funny...she would have been the only one apart from Angel who would have _saved_ the show IMO if it wasn't for her ships that I never liked!X-P And that's _because_ she's so similar to Willow!Willow is the character who convinced me to keep watching"Buffy",Winny _could have been_ the character who convinced me to keep watching"Angel"!
@@NicamonIt’s just my opinion. I didn’t ever care for her character. She seemed to only be a “prize” for Wesley, and little else. All scenes with her could easily function without her. Such as anyone else washing Jasmine’s sweater to be contaminated with her blood and be freed of her control. Or Angel, being Jasmine’s grandfather, would be immune to her control. I used to love Willow. But she’s also a terrible character in my opinion. She frequently violated the people around her by using magic on them without their knowledge or consent since season 3, and was rarely held accountable for it until season 6. And her quirky/cute persona which is supposed to endear us to her lost it’s effect on me, especially as an adult. I’m in the minority, I know. I just grew to dislike Willow. And never liked Fred. 🤣
@@arc7375 "She seemed to only be a"prize"for Wesley and little else."As I said,I like _her_ I don't like _her ships._ Which includes the one with Wesley. Yes,Willow did several terrible things,but,unlike with you,her quirky and cute personality still manages to endear me after all these years.❤She's kinda the opposite of Spike...you can enlist me all her flaws and _I would tell you you're right_ but I still wouldn't manage to hate her.❤❤❤❤(While with Spike I would agree on all his _good_ qualities and still wouldn't manage to _like_ him.)
@@Nicamon I don’t _hate_ Willow. I just don’t like how her character evolved. Spike seemed like the writers just didn’t know what to do with him. I believe even James Marsters stated he was originally going to replace Cordelia as the abrupt realist of the group - but that role was taken by Anya eventually, and he was left to just “be there.” Anya, on the other hand, was a character I initially didn’t care for. And came to exponentially adore. I stan our autistic Fairy.
0:02:33 - 0:02:34 Not yet...🤭 0:13:12 - 0:13:21 Hey,she must eat _something..._ 0:13:55 - 0:13:56 Jasmine's saga in a nutshell.Couldn't you guys mind your own buisness??? 0:18:00 - 0:18:07 OK,this is creepy,I'll grant you that.😬 23:41 - 23:48 Then you're not made for Heaven.🤷♂ 0:25:09 - 0:25:15 SHUT UP!!!🤫🤐 0:30:06 - 0:30:12 He's right. 0:30:36 - 0:30:45 I'll explain it to you,Connor...it's called *plot armor.* 0:39:25 - 0:39:26 True. 0:40:04 - 0:40:17 _It is_ real!Think about it!True world peace can be achieved only with the total absence of conflicts. And to have that you _must_ have brainwashed people who think as one and have no personal desires. It's literally the only way. And that's why we will never achieve world peace in this world. But Jasmine was managing to do that!Until Fred got in the way bringing conflict on the table once again. And all because of beauty standards. How _crazy_ is that?!?! 0:41:37 - 0:41:43 *See???!!!* This is the result of"the Good Guys"winning!Tell me again how _Jasmine_ was the Villain!!😠 0:42:10 - 0:42:14 BECASE SHE WAS!!! 0:42:15 - 0:42:19 There's no _real_ Paradise!This is the closest thing humans could ever get!! 0:42:40 - 0:43:00 IDIOT!!! If she doesn't add it,I will!😡💢 0:43:30 - 0:43:50 Ok,now you've lost me!;-P But I don't blame you. They started it. #Justice4JHasmine 💙 0:45:29 - 0:45:40 *SEE?????!!!!!!!* What did I tell you!!!? 0:47:28 - 0:47:42 But that's why *you can't* have world peace!That's *exactly* why!!Jasmine was right!! If you think free will > peace,you'll simply never get peace. You chose you priority. 0:49:12 - 0:50:00 I love this reaction.🤭🤭🤭🤭🤭🤭🤭🤭🤭 0:50:01 - 0:50:39 No,because they literally DESTROYED PARADISE!!!>O< 0:50:40 - 0:50:42 *SEE?????!!!!!!!>O
No, the Producers moved heaven and earth to keep her on the show, paying her hundreds of thousands of dollars to say one line or lie down for 5 minutes, even though she'd screwed the season by not telling everyone about her pregnancy. She was supposed to come back and finish Jasmine herself but her health wasn't up to it. Stop the Joss bashing, the madness is over.
The dark creature that helped bring back Darla in the S1 finale also had a maggoty face. I've always wondered if there was supposed to be some sort of connection between them, if Skip was right, that everything was planned that far back. The dark creature helps bring back Darla, who gives birth to Connor, who helps bring forth Jasmine.
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Vincent Kartheiser is truly such a brilliant, hugely underrated actor. His performance in these last episodes is so nuanced and heartbreaking and real. Especially in that hostage scene, he's just amazing. His face looks so dead and empty and lost and then there are these flashes of total agony and anger and he seems so so young. "You let him get me." People definitely don't give him enough credit for the beautiful work he did on this show.
💯Agreed!!
its like dawn in the first eps , they wrote her as a brat..it was supposed to make us hate her and him.. later they both were redemed as characters...
Vincent later stated he hated the character of Connor and wanted to stop playing the role after a few episodes, since all he did was skulk around angrily and argue. He found it all very one-note and unlikeable.
@@arc7375I NEVER understood why they did that with Connor’s character? There were SUCH GOOD writers on that show, how did they fail the actors & character so poorly. Even Doyle in 9episodes had more growth than him.
@@arc7375 But then he played Pete Campbell.
you’re the first reactor i’ve seen show real empathy towards connor
💜💜not many do
I definitely didn't get Connor's character at all on my first watch. Sophie's breakdown 46:33 is very insightful.
Especially pointing out the poor writing until the last couple of episodes that caused him to be so disliked. Such a waste of a great charater premise and fantastic actor.
Sofie tends to understand things a lot deeper than most on their first watch. Things that people don't get until watching a couple times, Sofie gets on the first watch
I always loved Connor. From my first watch. It helped that I could always identify with him and what he was going through, for personal reasons. And I always disagree when people bring up "bad writing", because I don't think it was at all. I think people just hated Connor not liking/trying to kill Angel and the stuff with Cordelia, both Angel and Cordelia being favorite chrs, not to mention Angel/Cordy being a popular ship, and it transferred to them hating Connor. But I feel like people just slap on the "bad writing" tag when they don't like something. Just because you don't like something doesn't make it bad writing, just because you don't like a character doesn't make them a bad chr or their actor a bad actor.
It’s heartbreaking to think that S4 opens with Angel’s toast “to family” with Connor in his dream, and ends with a real toast “to family” from Connor with his new family, while Angel watches.
When Angel was faced with the meaninglessness of the fight against evil, he found his mantra "Nothing we do matters, so all that matters is what we do".
When Connor was faced with the meaninglessness of the fight against evil, it broke him so much he just wanted to end it all.
To be fair, twice when Angel gave up, "Fate" showed him life was worth living, with the snow storm in Amends, and him not losing his soul at the start of Epiphany. All Fate has done to Connor is dick punch him again and again and again and again and again without even a whiff of greater meaning or joy. I think most would eventually just want an end to that sort of suffering.
How far we’ve come from 3 people in a small office fighting a weekly demon or monster.
kickin' it old school as they say...
Wolfram and Hart can at least ensure their rats are low.
Yes, I agree! If the writers would have approached Connor's character as they did in the last two episodes, he would woule have been far more compelling and we could empathize with him.
I wish Connor had some of emotional scenes from the last two eps sprinkled throughout the whole season. The acting in the finale between Vincent and David was SO good.
While Connor may have always seen Jasmine's true form, he clearly was under her thrall, up until his blood is mixed with Cordelia's. Then his personality does a complete 180. He goes from a happy shiny person, to questioning everything that Jasmine tells him to do. You can the disappointment on his face, when the blood mixes and he realizes that everything is a lie. But then he chooses that this lie is better than the others.
Season 4 is... divisive, to be sure. But I'll tell you, Angel season 5 is probably my favorite Buffyverse season, period. 4 had to happen so we could get to 5.
I feel like season 5 is another version of Buffy season 4. Lots of stand alone episodes. And lots of change ups in dynamics
Yes, one hour of Angel....i liked it. Cant wait for season 5...thank you Sofie. ❤
Her name is Hyuiiiiuiiihhhuuuiii.
Angel's deal is a lot like the one he made in season 1 with the Oracles, where he would be the only one who would remember (besides Lyla & probably the senior partners) who Connor was, but more than a day was taken, it was Connor's whole life from the point of his birth to his almost death.
Are you going to react to season 5 of Angel?
I mean, Jasmine genuinely _did_ want to help and actively fight for the triumph of Good over Evil. But as a part of The Powers, she’s so far above all life on Earth that it’s like a human trying to treat an ant colony just as they would a human. She can’t.
She’s like a gardener with her plants. There’s such a power imbalance because she’s so beyond earthly life that it’s impossible for her to meet anyone at their level.
She’s not actually evil. But tell a flower that the pruning is for its own good, or the grass being cut on your lawn is for good maintenance. It’s the same thing.
Edit: And much like a human tending to a garden, she eats humans the way a human eats plants.
She’s only terrible from our perspective.
There is a phrase, attributed to Lenin: "You can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs." The implication is that, like Jasmine tells Angel, it's okay to murder thousands in order to save millions. A great many people (arguably with communist inclinations) still use that phrase today when they try to assert dominance (or domination) on others that insist on asserting their own free will. They see themselves as working towards a better world, and therefore they're not evil. As does Jasmine here, according to your explanation.
But to return to the omelette metaphor: If you have to break a few eggs, that's one thing. But if you get a drop of blood into my omellette, it becomes inedible. (I'm into "the whole kosher thing", as Lorne puts it.) Which means you've broken the eggs, and gotten nothing worth having in return. Jasmine is actually evil, as are all those others who think it is worth it to kill thousands in order to save millions. And in fact, they end up murdering millions, and the survivors, hey live their lives under a tyranny, their free will trampled. What makes them human is stripped away. They are victims, who survived in spite of their oppressors, they who claimed to only want what's good for the little people. They haven't really been saved.
TL;DR: Jasmine _is_ evil. She wants power, absolute power, and is willing to trample over everyone and everything to get it. What she wants to use the power for may seem altruistic and good and loving, but the juice is not worth the squeeze.
Sorry, I'll be getting off my soapbox now.
@@menachemsalomon I think your “soapbox” was very well written and eloquently put!
For some reason, the last 2 episodes makes me cry for Connor! The actor actually manages to really shine in these episodes.
Makes you wonder what the character could've become if they hadn't written him as even more annoying and lame than Dawn for 92% of his run.
@@KS-xk2so
I agree. The writers were the true big bad of this season. Poor baby Connor! I always thought he should have been the only one to see and has to get everybody back on team good (basically give him Fred’s story)! I feel like that would have made people get back on team Big C
@@B-Dad There's no saving any of the Season 4 storyline honestly lol. Once Charisma got pregnant and Joss decided to take a big ssteamy shit all over Season 4 of his own show as revenge, it was completely doomed.
@@KS-xk2so
It’s my favorite season. 🤷🏾♂️😂😂
I don’t love everything but there’s no other season that I cared more in the week to week watching. Not even Season 5 👍🏾✌🏾
@@B-Dad Personally I found Season 3 the best week to week... I couldn't miss an episode during the whole Holtz/pregnancy build up and pay off.
Season 4 is strange to me. I call it the Schizo season, because it's either some of the best stuff we got, or TOTAL dogshit. Some individual moments or episodes are incredible, but large swaths of Season 4 suck so hard I have trouble not skipping during a rewatch. Pretty much everything Cordy or Connor related is just horrendously done. Angelus and Faith stuff rocks, mostly mixed success or failure across the rest of them.
Season 5 is great!! I love how they set it up in this episode
Another cracking episode in Peace Out with Angel still trying to find Jasmine's real name in the other world. Connor eventually overpowers our gang, but just as he is about to behead Wesley she says to stop through one of the soldiers. Angel still fighting the demons to extract the name, and Gunn continually kicking the cage door to free them. I know Connor has been to a hell dimension etc etc, but he has betrayed Angel so many times it's just infuriating. Wesley as we know is great at working out solutions and here he realises that Cordelia cannot be harmed by Jasmine. Gunn eventually frees them all with constant kicking, and great bit of comedy here when he looks for thanks from the gang. When Jasmine is about to broadcast live it was great to see Angel appear with the head of the demon and cut his mouth with his final releasing the name and ending Jasmine's power over everyone. A really interesting conversation with Angel and Jasmine on the bridge with Jasmine saying that by killing thousands she would be saving billions who would be living in peace and paradise. Angel of course talks of free will, but Jasmine counters saying look at what choice has done and is still doing. We end on another cliffhanger with Jasmine getting killed by Connor in the end, and Connor running off again! When Angel get back to the hotel we have the bombshell of Lilah returning, but who is she, and what does she want, and message has she got. We shall see. All in all and action packed penultimate episode to S4.
Oh shit we got an hour of angel reactions!
Love these multiple episode uploads.
In Home a total bombshell of an offer from the 'dead' Lilah offering the LA Branch of Wolfram & Hart to Angel and the team. A strange development indeed, but what a brilliant course for the show to take. Funny scene when the approach the massive Wolfram & Hart black limo and open the door and Lorne is already in there having a party. Again almost unreal when they emerge from the lift at the new offices and all the 'suits' saying 'Good Morning Mr Angel'. Again very funny when Lorne is being briefed by the W&H employee, rejecting him until he opens the book and Lorne swoons at the talent inside. When Fred get introduced to the R&D Science Dept guy, he immediately looks 'sus'. Of course it Jonathan M Woodward, who played Holden in BTVS Conversations With Dead People, as well as Knox here. Whedon constantly used actors in both shows playing different roles. One of the best scenes in this episode is when Wesley gets to his dept, a dream for him to be surrounded by such ancient volumes, again all too good to be true and he knocks out the W&H assistant cold. One of the most telling scenes in the whole Buffyverse when Lilah hands Angel the file and says ' that nifty little bobble comes with the file' that amulet seems so important at this point, interesting that the camera focuses back on the file with the amulet in it. Angel says 'Buffy can handle herself' but is it for Buffy? Lilah trying to tease Angel about Connor to accept the post, and a bit of light relief when she turns on the tv and Angel says is that 'high-def'. Gunn get the 'white button' treatment again in the lift, this time a mysterious black panther is the messenger. Wesley and Lilah meet again in the ultimate records room burning Lilah's contract. Connor, has finally snapped with true evil strapping up the whole place with bombs, again how many times has he betrayed Angel in this show! The fact that Connor is terrorising innocent people and children is hard to watch. Great satisfaction when Angel overpowers Connor and has him at his mercy, we see Angel strike the knife towards Connor but where is he. The team all decide to take the deal, and Lilah handing the amulet back to Angel very significant, but perhaps not in the way we think, brilliant plot line being layed here across both shows. We see Connor placed with the nicest family ever, and Angel looking on, now we know why Angel took the deal to give Connor peace and happiness. This is similar to Angel having to wipe Buffy's memory in I Will Remember You, where yet Angel alone has to suffer the emotional pain that has been his life as a vampire with a soul. An absolutely brilliant episode which sets up the best Season of the whole Buffyverse IMHO. The quality of writing and storytelling in this show was imperious. You will love Season 5. Enjoy!
Oh look, it's Lyla!! OK, I know this season wasn't everyone's favorite season, but there were some amazing moments and it had a very strong connection to season 3's craziness that really ends with this season finale. Season 5 will feel like a new era, but I won't spoil anything yet
Her name is Lilah
This season, in my opinion, is the most polarised season by far. It has the absolute best and worst of Angel as a whole all shuffled together.
@sebrussell I remember when it originally aired how weird I felt about it where before the other 3 seasons were pretty fantastic. Yet the last few episodes are among the best in the series, it's such an odd season for me.
@@nedzed3663 It's not all that mixed up in reality, when you know about Whedon's hate-boner for Charisma. Almost all the worst stuff this season was Cordelia related (generally dunking on her character), while most of the rest of the season is strong.
The one outlier is Connor (barring those last couple of episodes). But even there, you can also see in Buffy with Dawn and the Potential Slayers that the Buffyverse writers had an ongoing problem writing 'young' characters (where 'young' means younger than the core cast, as they were fine when the main characters were young).
The only good thing about this season is the return of Faith, and seeing Wesley _finally_ become the Watcher she needed.
You might recognize Knox, the man with Fred as Tracey from Firefly the message episode.
He was also from Buffy. He was her conversation with dead people!
Never seen this many reactions to The Buffyverse at once, that I can recall.
Wow! 4 episodes? That was a decent bite of angel. You fed us very well , thanks!
a bite... of Angel. ouch!
Connor got the Dawn treatment!
Great opening scenes to Sacrifice when Angel fires Connor out the window and he lands on the bonnet of the car. With the guys now on the run, everything seems to be against them. Amazing scenes too in the petrol station with Jasmine acting through ordinary members of the public trying to attack Angel and the gang. So creepy when Jasmine draws blood while holding Connors hand. The gang are lucky to gain some refuge in the sewer underworld with some of Gunn's ex-gang members. The look on Fred's face when Gunn knocks the kid out with a massive slap was priceless, he of course had to do this. Wesley, who is the cleverest of them all, tries to get Jasmine's real name from the scorpion demon. The demon is very strong, but Angel eventually kills him. Angel and Wesley now have the orb for Angel to enter the other world. Very sinister again with Connor turning up with the military and Jasmine laughing off the cuts and slashes she is receiving from the fighting of others. Can Angel work out how to defeat Jasmine, we shall see.
"There's always a catch" 😶🌫️😶🌫️😶🌫️
The end of this storyline came close to making up for the state of the season throughout, but not quite. There are still some gaping holes that need answering. If this was Jasmine's master plan, what was the point in the Beast? The Rain of Fire? Freeing Angelus? None of it tracks. Any any potentially interesting moral ambiguity that was raised in the peace vs freedom discussion was undermined by the fact that she was obviously actually evil, with the maggot face, maniac laughing and eating people thing.
The Wolfram & Hart twist is hype af though, no denying that. And rewriting Connor's history was kinda the only way to conclude that mess, so glad they realized that.
The maggot face is a subjective thing. It's been _ages_ since they tried to teach us that"ugly doesn't necessarily mean evil"...this applies to Jasmine too. And I remember someone saying that all the bad things that happened before she was born were the equivalent of the planet having"the pain of childbirth"or something. The maniac laugh...yeah,that one I don't know how to justify it either.🤷♂But apart from that I *do* believe Jasmine was Good and Angel&co. destroyed world peace because of prejudice. #TeamJasmine 💙
Connor only wanted to have something to belong to, like a real family. And he said he knew Jasmine was a lie, but went along because it was the better lie in his opinion. He didn't seem to like the whole fighting evil lifestyle, even though he was suited for it with his strength and abilities. He could have joined up with team Angel and worked like a slayer. But that wasn't the sort of family he wanted to belong to. He acted disgusted with Angel bringing back evil to the world because he didn't want to have to fight against it like Angel does. Maybe he had enough of that in the hell dimension.
You have to finish Buffy in order to begin the 5th season of Angel. This is a MUST... you later will know why.
Yep! The father killed the son in the end. (Even by creating a new Connor with new memories that kills the real Connor. And isn’t Angel doing the same thing Jasmine did? Offering a better lie where someone isn’t suffering? But if real life is so awful then maybe that’s not such a terrible option?)
Anyway, I know a lot of people hate this season but for me the Jasmine arc is worth it because it makes you think about all of this.
I'm also with Fred on that last question.
Almost as emotional as when the one guy punched him in the office meeting.
In Magic Bullet after the Angelus Saga, we now have the Jasmine Saga, which definitely has a undertones of 'Invasion Of The Body Snatchers' about it, in that you have one person against the everyone. I have to admit that in some ways this is a reflection on Religious TV Evangelists, who infect the minds of some without question. When Jasmine collects the group by telepathy, you can see how determind she is to find Fred by connecting with all people. When the man crashes his car in pursuit of Fred, and even whilst burning to death, we can see how evil Jasmine really is, she has now infected he whole population against Fred. Again when Wesley gives the speech looking for Fred, definitely a mirror on ridiculous Tele Evangelists. When Angel and Connor team up to sing Mandy, but change the name to Jasmine! 'pass the sick bucket'. When Jasmine makes reference to JFK dates, interesting to see Elie make the connection, in which older people would instantly recognise. Great scene when Fred launches the Magic Bullet than penetrates both Jasmine and Angel, and then he sees the real Jasmine. Fred unloads on Jasmine, and Connor still tries to defend her. Fred realises it is Jasmine's blood that is the key to people seeing the real her, Angel kisses her to try and fool the people after them. With Cordelia still in the coma Angel knows it is blood that will make the difference, and turn Lorne back. As Spike said is BTVS The Gift ' there always has to be blood'. Cordelia's blood has made the difference. Jasmine tells Connor she ate the people in her room, and he doesn't seem concerned. Again Connor betrays them again ( how many times has he betrayed Angel ). We end on a cliffhanger again. A great intense episode building towards the finale.
"But it means something that you tried..."
In fairness, I get Angel and his team choosing to run the L.A. Branch of Wolfram and Hart. I can see the potential of taking one of the most evil corporations since Umbrella. So that leaves plenty of room for next season.
What a great season reaction 👏
Angel made ultimate sacrifice deal with Wolfram&Hart for his biological son Connor and his anchor/true love/Connor's surrogate mom Cordelia to save them by give Connor a new wonderful good normal life with The Reilly Family (Connor's adoptive parents Laurence Reilly and Colleen Reilly) and recover Cordelia from her coma.
Connor have three moms in his life: his biological mother Darla, his surrogate mom Cordelia Chase, and his adoptive mother Colleen Reilly.
Always sympathy and empath for Connor the most because he's victim of circumstances.
Always disappointed in Joss Whedon for wronged all characters in BTVS tv show and Angel tv show.
Season Four has its problems, and a lot of big problems, but it ends strong, and Season Five is a great final season, with an amazing finale! You might to finish Buffy before going on to Season Five of Angel, but I can understand if you are hesitant to go through any more of Season Seven of Buffy (and yes, Kennedy somehow gets even worse).
Season 5 doesn't really go anywhere. You think it's going somewhere with Lyndsey but then it never does. Then you think its going somewhere with Illyria, but then doesn't. The Big Bad of the season ends up being a this big evil group consisting of a bunch of random characters from throughout the season, that we don't really care about. A lot of that had to do with the show getting cancelled and the ending being rushed, as it originally was supposed to be played out over two seasons. However, Illyria is a one of, if not the most badass character in the whole Buffyverse. Spike, you thought could have went somewhere, but he ends up just being the comic relief sidekick without any real purpose
@@alexh8613 You might want to give a spoiler warning first. I made sure my commentary was very general, even though there are multiple items I wanted to discuss in more specific details.
@@LordNifty Sofie finished season 5 of Angel almost a year ago. TH-cam is always behind, because it's a pain for reactors to edit their videos within the website's guidelines.
At 6:45 Zakk Wylde 🎸
SDMF
@@ieeanderson6326 👍
It seems that David (Angel) had a contract to kiss all the women on the show🤣
Where the hell is Season 5 already??
@12:07 I still think it's hilarious that the writers made Angel clumsy simply because David slipped while filming a scene during episode 21 of season 3 of Buffy and he and SMG reacted in character so it got left in the episode
I never understood the Fred kiss. I don’t know if I hate it but it never made any sense for either character!
I honestly never liked the Fred character, and thought she contributed nothing to the show.
She’s just a cheap parody of Willow.
@@arc7375 Funny...she would have been the only one apart from Angel who would have _saved_ the show IMO if it wasn't for her ships that I never liked!X-P And that's _because_ she's so similar to Willow!Willow is the character who convinced me to keep watching"Buffy",Winny _could have been_ the character who convinced me to keep watching"Angel"!
@@NicamonIt’s just my opinion. I didn’t ever care for her character. She seemed to only be a “prize” for Wesley, and little else. All scenes with her could easily function without her. Such as anyone else washing Jasmine’s sweater to be contaminated with her blood and be freed of her control. Or Angel, being Jasmine’s grandfather, would be immune to her control.
I used to love Willow. But she’s also a terrible character in my opinion. She frequently violated the people around her by using magic on them without their knowledge or consent since season 3, and was rarely held accountable for it until season 6. And her quirky/cute persona which is supposed to endear us to her lost it’s effect on me, especially as an adult.
I’m in the minority, I know. I just grew to dislike Willow. And never liked Fred. 🤣
@@arc7375 "She seemed to only be a"prize"for Wesley and little else."As I said,I like _her_ I don't like _her ships._ Which includes the one with Wesley.
Yes,Willow did several terrible things,but,unlike with you,her quirky and cute personality still manages to endear me after all these years.❤She's kinda the opposite of Spike...you can enlist me all her flaws and _I would tell you you're right_ but I still wouldn't manage to hate her.❤❤❤❤(While with Spike I would agree on all his _good_ qualities and still wouldn't manage to _like_ him.)
@@Nicamon I don’t _hate_ Willow. I just don’t like how her character evolved.
Spike seemed like the writers just didn’t know what to do with him. I believe even James Marsters stated he was originally going to replace Cordelia as the abrupt realist of the group - but that role was taken by Anya eventually, and he was left to just “be there.”
Anya, on the other hand, was a character I initially didn’t care for. And came to exponentially adore.
I stan our autistic Fairy.
Please upload Buffy s7e20
0:02:33 - 0:02:34 Not yet...🤭 0:13:12 - 0:13:21 Hey,she must eat _something..._ 0:13:55 - 0:13:56 Jasmine's saga in a nutshell.Couldn't you guys mind your own buisness???
0:18:00 - 0:18:07 OK,this is creepy,I'll grant you that.😬 23:41 - 23:48 Then you're not made for Heaven.🤷♂ 0:25:09 - 0:25:15 SHUT UP!!!🤫🤐
0:30:06 - 0:30:12 He's right. 0:30:36 - 0:30:45 I'll explain it to you,Connor...it's called *plot armor.* 0:39:25 - 0:39:26 True. 0:40:04 - 0:40:17 _It is_ real!Think about it!True world peace can be achieved only with the total absence of conflicts. And to have that you _must_ have brainwashed people who think as one and have no personal desires. It's literally the only way. And that's why we will never achieve world peace in this world. But Jasmine was managing to do that!Until Fred got in the way bringing conflict on the table once again. And all because of beauty standards. How _crazy_ is that?!?!
0:41:37 - 0:41:43 *See???!!!* This is the result of"the Good Guys"winning!Tell me again how _Jasmine_ was the Villain!!😠 0:42:10 - 0:42:14 BECASE SHE WAS!!!
0:42:15 - 0:42:19 There's no _real_ Paradise!This is the closest thing humans could ever get!! 0:42:40 - 0:43:00 IDIOT!!! If she doesn't add it,I will!😡💢
0:43:30 - 0:43:50 Ok,now you've lost me!;-P But I don't blame you. They started it. #Justice4JHasmine 💙 0:45:29 - 0:45:40 *SEE?????!!!!!!!* What did I tell you!!!?
0:47:28 - 0:47:42 But that's why *you can't* have world peace!That's *exactly* why!!Jasmine was right!! If you think free will > peace,you'll simply never get peace. You chose you priority.
0:49:12 - 0:50:00 I love this reaction.🤭🤭🤭🤭🤭🤭🤭🤭🤭 0:50:01 - 0:50:39 No,because they literally DESTROYED PARADISE!!!>O< 0:50:40 - 0:50:42 *SEE?????!!!!!!!>O
Unfortunately Joss Weadon was a dick to Charisma about being pregnant and getting fat. So of course she was written out.
No, the Producers moved heaven and earth to keep her on the show, paying her hundreds of thousands of dollars to say one line or lie down for 5 minutes, even though she'd screwed the season by not telling everyone about her pregnancy. She was supposed to come back and finish Jasmine herself but her health wasn't up to it. Stop the Joss bashing, the madness is over.
The dark creature that helped bring back Darla in the S1 finale also had a maggoty face. I've always wondered if there was supposed to be some sort of connection between them, if Skip was right, that everything was planned that far back. The dark creature helps bring back Darla, who gives birth to Connor, who helps bring forth Jasmine.
Please upload stranger things 4 last episode
I hated the whole connor arc. Next season is better.