Went to a small concert the other day.. with a singer and a guitarist, old folk music. The singer was clearly singing non-equal temperament when singing alone, but changed to "standard" when accompanied by the guitar. The difference is distinct. When accompanied, the song has a similar feeling as more modern folk song, while unaccompanied you get this otherworldly feeling, it's pure in a different way, and moves you differently.
@@bigol9223 Traditional song of the type here didn't use equal temperament. The singer was singing exactly as it "should" sound. "on pitch" only makes sense if you think ".. relative to.." where ".. relative to.." is e.g. equal temperament, or, as in this case, the natural scale used for that kind of traditional song (and was exactly on pitch for that, according to my ears). But when singing along with a guitar it's necessary to move to equal temperament or it wouldn't match the guitar. But the song feels different. Not really in a better way..
I play the Native American flute which has a fixed scale which has been “force-tempered” to a pentatonic minor. I come from a jazz background and love “bending” the notes to get the blue notes. Love your explanation!
That's so interesting, as I'm doing some research about the prevalence of Lydian mode in some regions of Scandinavia... which happen to be the ones with some clear presence of harmonic-scale instruments. The Lydian mode being the closest tempered scale to the harmonic scale... I'm really starting to draw conclusions ^^
@@EmelieWaldken before “western” influence, flutes were measured by the makers body. The length was that of the makers arm, the lowest hole was the width of the hand from the end, and the remaining holes were spaced by the width of the thumb, etc. so each flute was unique.
Hi Emelie, I personally love the Lydian and Mixalydian modes. What I hear in Scandinavian folk music and Welsh as well at times, is a Lydian dominant, or Lydian b7 if you like. I suppose you could also see this as a Mixalydian #4. It seems to me that the 4th in Northern European folk doesn’t always want to settle, taking a more emotional or bluesy if you like approach towards the 5th. This sharp 4th seems to be a thing with the pipe tradition in Britain, which is a lot older then often stated and certainly had its major development there. Of corse pipes and lures go back a few thousand years in NE. Interesting the idea of a bag assisting a horn seems to have its roots in basic form both in the Mediterranean and Anatolia, as well as Scandinavia strongly with the Sami. There is definitely strong and shared influence of Norse culture, language and music with Britain and Ireland. OK enough of my blabbing, just excited to find people like yourself. Back to the video now and thank you Josh:)
It is worth noting that when Jazz was borne in the US it almost immediately became huge in Sweden too. When you start playing around with swedish and nordic folk music and put it into 4/4th instead of 3/4th it is instant Jazz/Blues. The syncopation, the backbeat and the blue notes where already in the culture. Our folk musicians only had to count to 4 instead of counting to 3.
Ironically European folk and classical music had a bigger influence on American roots and popular music then is often recognized these days. Not only did it parallel folk music elements with other cultures, (some that also helped shape American styles) but specifically the early English and Scottish emigrants. They sang with a lot of blue notes, used syncopation in their dances and rhythms, as well as used call and response in their church singing that they brought with them. Many of these musical styles where a shared part with Scandinavia and the continent both in Europe and in America.
A standard tempered scale diatonic harmonica is a tempered instrument AND a blue note instrument. The C diatonic was used to play the G scale in blues music. The microtones come from bending notes to fill the gaps in the scale. So you can make a tempered instrument "blue" with technique.
@@EmelieWaldken My favorite dramatic use of blue notes I have heard in both trad Irish and American Blues... Where throughout a tune you expect a certain note but the blue note never quite reaches the expected note for resolution (or maybe it finally does!). I just love that tension.
That is true. However, it is still a bit of a difference compared to when you're using a fretless (or the equivalent for your section) instrument like violin or trombone, or an instrument that is tuned to something else than equal temperament. When you're going for the blue notes on a harmonica, you can really hear that it's not tuned differently. It's bent. I'm not saying what's good and bad. Just saying that there is a difference. On woodwind instruments you can often experiment with alternative grips. Maybe you cannot find a good grip that gives you exactly the pitch you're looking for, but you can change pitch without the feeling of a bent note. For instance, on a baroque recorder, you can lift your pinkie or ring finger or both to sharpen the F to be somewhere between F and F#.
@@intehelt8606 Sure, but none of that was my point. And there are harmonica players out there who are very precise with their bends, where it is very difficult to hear the bend, you hear the blue note. Regardless, my whole point was that there are tempered instruments (guitars and harmonicas) that players have learned how to get blue notes out of.
@@daveburklund2295 I didn't mean to say that you're wrong or anything. Was just pointing out a few things related to the topic. And yes, you can prebend a note to avoid hearing the actual bend. But it still get a different timbre, and it can introduce significant difficulties in fast passages.
Thanks for sharing. In berber folk music we have as blues notes flat third , flat fifth flat seventh and sometimes flat sixth ( on guitar one bends up a quarter step) , very similar to blues.
Enjoyed your video as always. Your videos bring music down to terms that can be understood by anyone, regardless of instrument. You are a great teacher, and your videos are relaxing, whether you perform or explain the nuances of your craft. I never heard of this instrument until I saw one of your videos one day. You make it "sing" and also share the local history and beauty of where you live as well. I miss my travels in Europe, music is a big reason, especially European folk music. My favorite instrument is the hammered dulcimer, especially the way I've heard it played in Swiss and Austrian folk music and modern dulcimer ("Tap that Dulcimer" is worth searching for on TH-cam). My favorite concert ever was a pops classical concert at the Kursall in Vienna I saw in '17 during my last visit to Europe. There is nothing more beautiful than classical music performed live, so true of so much music.
Emelie, thanks a lot for this video! I asked you specifically a couple years ago to deal with the topic, being a student of ottoman classical music (which uses a lot of microtones) and at the same time having an interest in Scandinavian folk music!! That's all so interesting!!!
Being entirely self-taught and having no knowledge of music theory, at 70years young I am sure that I'll never made the grade set by Emelie but I just love making music on whatever instruments I can afford and squeeze into my music room. I've just published my version of "Strings in the Earth & Air" (James Joyce 1907) on TH-cam and honest, I tried to travel with the string vibrations of my harp and let them take me to my version of this beautiful poem.
Thank you so much for your wonderful videos! I have two questions that you may have covered elsewhere but that I haven’t found. The questions are related. First, what is that delightful melody the you use at the beginning of your videos? It has that bewitching raised fourth tone, which is my second question. Is here a story behind it? It always catches my ear! Thanks again!
Very good video. An modern Equaly tempered piano is perfectly out of tune. It can’t more out of tune because we have put the faults equally between all notes. So when we use Autotune when recording we put the music out of tune. We can look at temperament on piano as the pianist s vibrato. Historic temperaments give different vibratos. An 8 note thinking tempered and is very close to pure so then it is more in tune thinking pure than a tempered. So I think one can have that in mind. Best is as you say experiment. But no criticizing video. Just commenting :-D
Thank you for a wonderfully informative video! I'd heard of blue notes before but not the reason why they're called blue notes, so that makes a lot of sense. Classical guitarist Brandon Acker has a recent video demonstrating how beautiful some chords can sound with gut frets on a guitar to tune it to different temperaments (and how bad some other chords sound!) - tuning is a really fascinating topic.
Thank you ! I forgot to mention viola da gamba and all the instruments with moveable frets, and yes they are fascinating ! They are similar to harps and nyckelharpas in regard of the tuning !
Very good video. Unfortunately, in my experience, blue notes are often overlooked. We in the western world has really been locked into the template of 12-tet. Sure, blue notes exists in for example blues, but when they are used there, they most often sounds like a modulation of the "proper" note. Starting playing violin was one of my best choices. I come from the guitar, and there I was always forced to bend notes to get into the blue territory.
@@EmelieWaldken TBH, I actually don't really like calling them blue notes in a folk context. Because it implies that it's not a correct note. In jazz, it makes perfect sense since in jazz you use those notes to create a lot of tension, and you really get the feeling of an intentionally false note. But the blue notes are not a part of the scale there. But the way you are using it here, it does not sound blue to me. Instead, it sounds non 12-tet, because you're not playing a note outside of the scale. You have altered the scale itself. #nerdyamateurmusicphilosopher
@@intehelt8606I disagree, partially- a lot of the pieces played on hardangfele have a blue note as well as the "regular" one. So sometimes it is treated as an accidental. There's even one I heard that had two blue versions of the same note.
There's something so wholesome about Emelie eating berries off the nearby plants mid-sentence. I wanna live in Sweden so bad! Everything where I live is dry and lifeless, and when it does eventually rain, all the plants that grow are just fuel for wildfires anyway :/
Completely understanding the appeal of Sweden, and yes it is full of life and water and green, fluffy moss here... half of the year. During winter we have another kind of lifeless landscape : the cold, frozen one. I prefer that to dry/scorched/hot climates, but just remember that nothing is perfect ;)
Its really interessting, that you said you play the minor third a little bit higher and the six a little bit flat, because in 12TET these are quite a bit out of tune compared to the just intervals which are for the third a little bit higher and for the six a little bit flat. So all you are actually doing is to play them in a very pure intonation compared to the compromise of 12TET.
I didn't know that, thanks ! I'm not surprised that this way of "tuning" one's scale already exists (pretty much everything in this domain has already been done anyways, it's just a question of taste in the end).
Thank you for providing today’s happy nerdy content😊
Even if I were teaching someone just music...I'd have them watch your videos. Never mind Swedish music. Your educational value is great!
Went to a small concert the other day.. with a singer and a guitarist, old folk music. The singer was clearly singing non-equal temperament when singing alone, but changed to "standard" when accompanied by the guitar. The difference is distinct. When accompanied, the song has a similar feeling as more modern folk song, while unaccompanied you get this otherworldly feeling, it's pure in a different way, and moves you differently.
Yes we in the West have really lost the habit of blue notes, so they can easily sound very foreign / magical / weird to our ears !
Was he doing it on purpose or did he just stay on pitch better when he could hear the guitar?
@@bigol9223 Traditional song of the type here didn't use equal temperament. The singer was singing exactly as it "should" sound. "on pitch" only makes sense if you think ".. relative to.." where ".. relative to.." is e.g. equal temperament, or, as in this case, the natural scale used for that kind of traditional song (and was exactly on pitch for that, according to my ears). But when singing along with a guitar it's necessary to move to equal temperament or it wouldn't match the guitar. But the song feels different. Not really in a better way..
I play the Native American flute which has a fixed scale which has been “force-tempered” to a pentatonic minor. I come from a jazz background and love “bending” the notes to get the blue notes. Love your explanation!
That's so interesting, as I'm doing some research about the prevalence of Lydian mode in some regions of Scandinavia... which happen to be the ones with some clear presence of harmonic-scale instruments. The Lydian mode being the closest tempered scale to the harmonic scale... I'm really starting to draw conclusions ^^
@@EmelieWaldken before “western” influence, flutes were measured by the makers body. The length was that of the makers arm, the lowest hole was the width of the hand from the end, and the remaining holes were spaced by the width of the thumb, etc. so each flute was unique.
Hi Emelie, I personally love the Lydian and Mixalydian modes. What I hear in Scandinavian folk music and Welsh as well at times, is a Lydian dominant, or Lydian b7 if you like. I suppose you could also see this as a Mixalydian #4. It seems to me that the 4th in Northern European folk doesn’t always want to settle, taking a more emotional or bluesy if you like approach towards the 5th. This sharp 4th seems to be a thing with the pipe tradition in Britain, which is a lot older then often stated and certainly had its major development there. Of corse pipes and lures go back a few thousand years in NE. Interesting the idea of a bag assisting a horn seems to have its roots in basic form both in the Mediterranean and Anatolia, as well as Scandinavia strongly with the Sami. There is definitely strong and shared influence of Norse culture, language and music with Britain and Ireland. OK enough of my blabbing, just excited to find people like yourself.
Back to the video now and thank you
Josh:)
Really appreciate this detailed description. Thank you for putting this together.
She's got the Blues! Blue notes give music character and are more expressive in my opinion.
28:41 yep, you convinced me. Blue notes are more awesome than I thought. I just find your channel and i'm loving your videos!!
Yay, I convinced someone =D
It is worth noting that when Jazz was borne in the US it almost immediately became huge in Sweden too. When you start playing around with swedish and nordic folk music and put it into 4/4th instead of 3/4th it is instant Jazz/Blues. The syncopation, the backbeat and the blue notes where already in the culture. Our folk musicians only had to count to 4 instead of counting to 3.
Ironically European folk and classical music had a bigger influence on American roots and popular music then is often recognized these days. Not only did it parallel folk music elements with other cultures, (some that also helped shape American styles) but specifically the early English and Scottish emigrants. They sang with a lot of blue notes, used syncopation in their dances and rhythms, as well as used call and response in their church singing that they brought with them. Many of these musical styles where a shared part with Scandinavia and the continent both in Europe and in America.
Very interesting. Thank you Emelie
well done. good explanation of a complicated subject.
Great job! Du e grym!
Tack !
I love that you came up with a video idea that let you eat Blueberries! 🫐🫐🫐
Hehehe, busted =P
A standard tempered scale diatonic harmonica is a tempered instrument AND a blue note instrument. The C diatonic was used to play the G scale in blues music. The microtones come from bending notes to fill the gaps in the scale. So you can make a tempered instrument "blue" with technique.
I didn't know that about harmonicas, but it makes a lot of sense with much I associate this instrument with Blues music. Thank you for the info !!
@@EmelieWaldken My favorite dramatic use of blue notes I have heard in both trad Irish and American Blues... Where throughout a tune you expect a certain note but the blue note never quite reaches the expected note for resolution (or maybe it finally does!). I just love that tension.
That is true. However, it is still a bit of a difference compared to when you're using a fretless (or the equivalent for your section) instrument like violin or trombone, or an instrument that is tuned to something else than equal temperament. When you're going for the blue notes on a harmonica, you can really hear that it's not tuned differently. It's bent. I'm not saying what's good and bad. Just saying that there is a difference.
On woodwind instruments you can often experiment with alternative grips. Maybe you cannot find a good grip that gives you exactly the pitch you're looking for, but you can change pitch without the feeling of a bent note. For instance, on a baroque recorder, you can lift your pinkie or ring finger or both to sharpen the F to be somewhere between F and F#.
@@intehelt8606 Sure, but none of that was my point. And there are harmonica players out there who are very precise with their bends, where it is very difficult to hear the bend, you hear the blue note. Regardless, my whole point was that there are tempered instruments (guitars and harmonicas) that players have learned how to get blue notes out of.
@@daveburklund2295 I didn't mean to say that you're wrong or anything. Was just pointing out a few things related to the topic.
And yes, you can prebend a note to avoid hearing the actual bend. But it still get a different timbre, and it can introduce significant difficulties in fast passages.
Thanks for this very informative video!!
Thanks for sharing. In berber folk music we have as blues notes flat third , flat fifth flat seventh and sometimes flat sixth ( on guitar one bends up a quarter step) , very similar to blues.
Enjoyed your video as always. Your videos bring music down to terms that can be understood by anyone, regardless of instrument. You are a great teacher, and your videos are relaxing, whether you perform or explain the nuances of your craft.
I never heard of this instrument until I saw one of your videos one day. You make it "sing" and also share the local history and beauty of where you live as well. I miss my travels in Europe, music is a big reason, especially European folk music.
My favorite instrument is the hammered dulcimer, especially the way I've heard it played in Swiss and Austrian folk music and modern dulcimer ("Tap that Dulcimer" is worth searching for on TH-cam).
My favorite concert ever was a pops classical concert at the Kursall in Vienna I saw in '17 during my last visit to Europe. There is nothing more beautiful than classical music performed live, so true of so much music.
Thank you for your nice words ! I also really love hammered dulcimer of every kind, my favourite possibly being the cimbalom in Romanian folk music.
Thank you! This was the first time someone explained this to me in a way I could somewhat understand! 🙂
Blueberries are the best way to explain I could find (in my opinion) ^^
@@EmelieWaldken Blueberries are awesome! But here in Småland most of them sadly dried up in this year's drought...
Emelie, thanks a lot for this video! I asked you specifically a couple years ago to deal with the topic, being a student of ottoman classical music (which uses a lot of microtones) and at the same time having an interest in Scandinavian folk music!! That's all so interesting!!!
Interesting video, thanks for sharing!
Being entirely self-taught and having no knowledge of music theory, at 70years young I am sure that I'll never made the grade set by Emelie but I just love making music on whatever instruments I can afford and squeeze into my music room. I've just published my version of "Strings in the Earth & Air" (James Joyce 1907) on TH-cam and honest, I tried to travel with the string vibrations of my harp and let them take me to my version of this beautiful poem.
Thank you so much for your wonderful videos! I have two questions that you may have covered elsewhere but that I haven’t found. The questions are related. First, what is that delightful melody the you use at the beginning of your videos? It has that bewitching raised fourth tone, which is my second question. Is here a story behind it? It always catches my ear! Thanks again!
I love this tune too ! It's called Fossegrimen, composed by Magnus Stinnerbom, here played by me, recorded on my second album "Hallingrr"
Very good video.
An modern Equaly tempered piano is perfectly out of tune. It can’t more out of tune because we have put the faults equally between all notes.
So when we use Autotune when recording we put the music out of tune.
We can look at temperament on piano as the pianist s vibrato. Historic temperaments give different vibratos.
An 8 note thinking tempered and is very close to pure so then it is more in tune thinking pure than a tempered. So I think one can have that in mind.
Best is as you say experiment.
But no criticizing video. Just commenting :-D
We were waiting for this video!
Cheers! Fioltrollet och Säckpipstrollet and keep on being Blå!
matur suksma untuk video ini ! 🌹🎻🤠
mewali
Thank you for more blue topics :)
(I noticed the instrument parts and the voice parts a bit different volume levels?)
Yes everytime I move the camera the sound varies a little =/
Great✨! Question..How many Hertz can you tune one ”löv” on your harpa? Is it possible to reach all the way to the quartertone?
Not with just turning the tangent, but by turning AND bending (pressing harder with the finger), yes, then one can reach the full quarter-tone !
Thank you for a wonderfully informative video! I'd heard of blue notes before but not the reason why they're called blue notes, so that makes a lot of sense. Classical guitarist Brandon Acker has a recent video demonstrating how beautiful some chords can sound with gut frets on a guitar to tune it to different temperaments (and how bad some other chords sound!) - tuning is a really fascinating topic.
Thank you ! I forgot to mention viola da gamba and all the instruments with moveable frets, and yes they are fascinating ! They are similar to harps and nyckelharpas in regard of the tuning !
私は初めて見にきた日本人かな？日本語で書きますよ。音楽も勿論素敵ですがあなた自身も魅力ある女性なので捕まってしまいました。
登録しますね。
Very good video. Unfortunately, in my experience, blue notes are often overlooked. We in the western world has really been locked into the template of 12-tet. Sure, blue notes exists in for example blues, but when they are used there, they most often sounds like a modulation of the "proper" note.
Starting playing violin was one of my best choices. I come from the guitar, and there I was always forced to bend notes to get into the blue territory.
Totally agreeing there. I'm trying to give blue notes more recognition and appreciation !
@@EmelieWaldken TBH, I actually don't really like calling them blue notes in a folk context. Because it implies that it's not a correct note. In jazz, it makes perfect sense since in jazz you use those notes to create a lot of tension, and you really get the feeling of an intentionally false note. But the blue notes are not a part of the scale there.
But the way you are using it here, it does not sound blue to me. Instead, it sounds non 12-tet, because you're not playing a note outside of the scale. You have altered the scale itself.
#nerdyamateurmusicphilosopher
@@intehelt8606I disagree, partially- a lot of the pieces played on hardangfele have a blue note as well as the "regular" one. So sometimes it is treated as an accidental. There's even one I heard that had two blue versions of the same note.
*hardingfele
There's something so wholesome about Emelie eating berries off the nearby plants mid-sentence. I wanna live in Sweden so bad! Everything where I live is dry and lifeless, and when it does eventually rain, all the plants that grow are just fuel for wildfires anyway :/
Move to another part of the country.
Completely understanding the appeal of Sweden, and yes it is full of life and water and green, fluffy moss here... half of the year. During winter we have another kind of lifeless landscape : the cold, frozen one. I prefer that to dry/scorched/hot climates, but just remember that nothing is perfect ;)
Its really interessting, that you said you play the minor third a little bit higher and the six a little bit flat, because in 12TET these are quite a bit out of tune compared to the just intervals which are for the third a little bit higher and for the six a little bit flat. So all you are actually doing is to play them in a very pure intonation compared to the compromise of 12TET.
I didn't know that, thanks ! I'm not surprised that this way of "tuning" one's scale already exists (pretty much everything in this domain has already been done anyways, it's just a question of taste in the end).
Emelie, what of the nyckelharpa?
th-cam.com/video/WwCEl4Y8fDk/w-d-xo.html
Turn your volume up please
a little out of tune sounds better , I think someone said.
Profound analogy illustrating effects of industrialization!