@@dharmadefender3932 Christianity has changed and the disparaging rhetoric against non-believers has slowly disappeared but the core belief that all other religions and beliefs are false remains embedded in the gospels..
@@AColonelPanic I suppose it's true of most uses of most religions. To be fair, I know some genuinely kind and loving people of many different religions, including Christianity. It just bugs me how much "monotheism" automatically becomes contempt for people who are different from you.
I'd love to see an extended discussion of the remaining fragments of the Emperor Julian's "Against the Galileans." It's a fascinating work with some very valid critiques of Christianity, so, of course, it was nearly censored out of existence by the usual suspects.
Thx for watching Julian. Will definitely be doing plenty on Julian especially discussing 'Against the Galileans' in future videos. Like you said he had some great points which are worth mulling over.
Julian was the subject of a novel, Julian (1964), by Gore Vidal, describing his life and times. It is notable for, among other things, its scathing critique of Christianity.
I have a great degree of affection for the classical Greco Roman culture and lament it's loss at the hands of these hateful religions. I am glad you are exposing them. Keep up the great work friend, I love your content
He was a truly inspirational chap (!!) being a Philosopher/General/Statesman/Writer. And to his credit he never showed intolerance towards Christians despite his dislike of the belief.
Just discovered your channel and subscribed! Thank you for your content. Have you read, A Darkening Age, by Catherine Nixey? The tragedy of the Christian religious intolerance is there for all to see.
Thanks for subscribing! Yes I've read Catherine Nixey's excellent book and hope to do a. video review on it. She did unfortunately get some flak from people suggesting the book wasn't balanced/ that it was anti-Christian. But since the topic of the book was the active suppression of paganism and religious free thinking during the 4th and 5th centuries its difficult to see how else she could have written the book.
@@FlaviusClaudiusJulianus361 Yes indeed. I mean either they did the things she researched or they didn't. But then modern Christians can fall back on the " they weren't true Christians" argument . The Christians did a pretty good job of hating each other too.
Emperor Julian really is a tragic figure. Noble, virtuous, wise, and intelligent, he did his best to restore Rome to its former glory, but too much damage had already been done.
I think you're right. He would probably have had a much better chance if he had come straight after Constantine. It's a shame Secundius Salutius, a pagan scholar and one of Julian's right hand men was offered the crown on Julian's death but refused to accept it. The new Emperor Jovian - a Christian - was very much a second choice.
Pagans is everyone that worshiped the Divinity in some form that is not superstitious monotheism. This mean both panteism and the polytheists like romans (actuall greeks and romans were also a bit pantheists since they believe the earth, sea, rivers etc were all gods too).
@@jakek.403 Catholicism is a combination of early christianity with some paganism (while protestantism is neither of the three). So i see no nonsense in that statement.
Was certainly a very uncertain and increasingly dangerous time for pagans and pagan worship.And especially so in the reign of Theodosius and Gratian and co. after Julians's death.
Keep up the good work. I doubt that the historical material discussed in your videos will ever be of great interest to the majority of people. Julian has been a long standing figure of interest to me, and what remains of his writings provide insights into the decline of paganism in the later stages of the Roman Empire. In your future videos, I would like to see you discussing Julian's "Misopogon", whose themes are akind to Celsus "True Doctrine", but on the side of so-called philosophers turned vagabonds in the ancient world.
Thanks! Yes it a shame - the later Roman Empire and the end of antiquity/paganism is a fascinating subject - but as you say not of great interest to most. Would love to do a video on Mispogon - thx for the suggestion.
The dark ages in Europe resulted from the destruction of anything pagan from the culture. The Ancient Greek science was a drastic casualty. Europe eventually got its science via the Islamic Golden Age ~800 - 1100 CE.
The bible Genesis stories directly contradicted what the Greek astronomers/mathematicians had worked out about our Earth. Essentially Greek thinking and science was totally incompatible with the biblical narrative
@@FlaviusClaudiusJulianus361 And therefore anathema to the Christians. The Pagan philosophers even worked out the existence of atoms and suggested a hypothesis of evolution. Christians couldn't stand it! Anything they couldn't tolerate they destroyed. No wonder people call "zealous" Christians a bunch of ChristPsychotics!
its very interesting thing about the early Christian mindset, they think the Greek gods was demons, but this is understandable, they wanted to erase the other religions. The interesting thing is the once the Roman born, Latin speaking Christians translated the Bible and read it...they was shocked , and rejected the Jehovah(/Elion/El or how you want to call it) as a false god, a demiurge... because of the never ending materials need it have, lands,money,animals,human slaves and sacrifices...
yes the contempt for pagan worship was inherited from judaism but the turning against Judaism and the split between Judaism and the new Christianity cult is a fascinating one. I think even the early Christians (the obvious example being Marcion) were quite aware the teachings of Jesus had a very different flavour to that of the Jewish scriptures. But patently the Jewish scriptures couldn't be jettisoned either as Jesus had never rejected them.
St Augustine would have corrected the dubious Pegasius on the matter of Christian veneration of Martyrs, specifically in 'The City of God', Book 8, Chapter 27. The Martyrs are honoured for their loyalty to the True God, and all of their intercessory ability stems from this loyalty and service. Achilles, on the other hand, was perceived by many Fathers of the Church as the megalomaniac son of a demon, and consequently any honour paid to him was in fact paid either to devils or to the spirits of wrongly deified humans (assuming on holds to Euhemerism).
Chapter 27.- Concerning the Nature of the Honor Which the Christians Pay to Their Martyrs. But, nevertheless, we do not build temples, and ordain priests, rites, and sacrifices for these same martyrs; for they are not our gods, but their God is our God. Certainly we honor their reliquaries, as the memorials of holy men of God who strove for the truth even to the death of their bodies, that the true religion might be made known, and false and fictitious religions exposed. For if there were some before them who thought that these religions were really false and fictitious, they were afraid to give expression to their convictions. But who ever heard a priest of the faithful, standing at an altar built for the honor and worship of God over the holy body of some martyr, say in the prayers, I offer to you a sacrifice, O Peter, or O Paul, or O Cyprian? For it is to God that sacrifices are offered at their tombs - the God who made them both men and martyrs, and associated them with holy angels in celestial honor; and the reason why we pay such honors to their memory is, that by so doing we may both give thanks to the true God for their victories, and, by recalling them afresh to remembrance, may stir ourselves up to imitate them by seeking to obtain like crowns and palms, calling to our help that same God on whom they called. Therefore, whatever honors the religious may pay in the places of the martyrs, they are but honors rendered to their memory, not sacred rites or sacrifices offered to dead men as to gods. And even such as bring there food - which, indeed, is not done by the better Christians, and in most places of the world is not done at all - do so in order that it may be sanctified to them through the merits of the martyrs, in the name of the Lord of the martyrs, first presenting the food and offering prayer, and thereafter taking it away to be eaten, or to be in part bestowed upon the needy. But he who knows the one sacrifice of Christians, which is the sacrifice offered in those places, also knows that these are not sacrifices offered to the martyrs. It is, then, neither with divine honors nor with human crimes, by which they worship their gods, that we honor our martyrs; neither do we offer sacrifices to them, or convert the crimes of the gods into their sacred rites. For let those who will and can read the letter of Alexander to his mother Olympias, in which he tells the things which were revealed to him by the priest Leon, and let those who have read it recall to memory what it contains, that they may see what great abominations have been handed down to memory, not by poets, but by the mystic writings of the Egyptians, concerning the goddess Isis, the wife of Osiris, and the parents of both, all of whom, according to these writings, were royal personages. Isis, when sacrificing to her parents, is said to have discovered a crop of barley, of which she brought some ears to the king her husband, and his councillor Mercurius, and hence they identify her with Ceres. Those who read the letter may there see what was the character of those people to whom when dead sacred rites were instituted as to gods, and what those deeds of theirs were which furnished the occasion for these rites. Let them not once dare to compare in any respect those people, though they hold them to be gods, to our holy martyrs, though we do not hold them to be gods. For we do not ordain priests and offer sacrifices to our martyrs, as they do to their dead men, for that would be incongruous, undue, and unlawful, such being due only to God; and thus we do not delight them with their own crimes, or with such shameful plays as those in which the crimes of the gods are celebrated, which are either real crimes committed by them at a time when they were men, or else, if they never were men, fictitious crimes invented for the pleasure of noxious demons. The god of Socrates, if he had a god, cannot have belonged to this class of demons. But perhaps they who wished to excel in this art of making gods, imposed a god of this sort on a man who was a stranger to, and innocent of any connection with that art. What need we say more? No one who is even moderately wise imagines that demons are to be worshipped on account of the blessed life which is to be after death. But perhaps they will say that all the gods are good, but that of the demons some are bad and some good, and that it is the good who are to be worshipped, in order that through them we may attain to the eternally blessed life. To the examination of this opinion we will devote the following book.
by the Christian logics a person who kill himself should end in Hell, a lot of Christian martyrs in Roman times was absolutely doing anything possible to be killed by the State, from desertion from the army, to the openly negate the sacrificial duty's to the Emperors figure.. exist a lot of Roman cases of magistrates asking them to full fill their obligations, beg them to do their duty's, a lot of times...they where wanting to die , because the early Christians belived that Jesus will rise again very soon.
@@rutrem09 But one must differentiate between standing up for ones beliefs, knowing that doing so may result in death, and suicide. Suicide is the deliberate ending of ones own life due, often due to crushing despair. Martyrdom, on the other hand, is the conscious willingness to lay down ones life for the truth. No one would accuse Sir Thomas More of dying via suicide, despite the fact that he knew the ramifications of defying King Henry the 8th. Additionally, the New Testament is very clear that all pagan sacrifices were invalid. and thus could not be partaken in, since "the sacrifices of pagans are offered to demons, not to God". Martyrdom was thus the pinnacle of standing up for what was right, even if it resulted in death. As Eusebius said in his Historia Ecclesiastica regarding St Blandina; "she the small, the weak, the despised, who had put on Christ the great and invincible Champion, and who in many rounds vanquished the adversary and through conflict was crowned with the crown of incorruptibility. ”
Contempt for others really sums up the essence of Christianity to me.
A characteristic of the Abrahamic faiths I think, Christianity inheriting the contempt of other beliefs from Judaism.
Certainly contempt for the beliefs and opinions of others
@@dharmadefender3932 Christianity has changed and the disparaging rhetoric against non-believers has slowly disappeared but the core belief that all other religions and beliefs are false remains embedded in the gospels..
The same charge can be levelled against judaism and particularly islam.
@@AColonelPanic I suppose it's true of most uses of most religions. To be fair, I know some genuinely kind and loving people of many different religions, including Christianity. It just bugs me how much "monotheism" automatically becomes contempt for people who are different from you.
I'd love to see an extended discussion of the remaining fragments of the Emperor Julian's "Against the Galileans." It's a fascinating work with some very valid critiques of Christianity, so, of course, it was nearly censored out of existence by the usual suspects.
Thx for watching Julian. Will definitely be doing plenty on Julian especially discussing 'Against the Galileans' in future videos. Like you said he had some great points which are worth mulling over.
My two favorite emperors...Marcus Aurelius and the last light of the old pagan world....Julian! This was very good, by the way. Cheers!
Thank you! Will be producing more videos on Julian shortly
Julian was the subject of a novel, Julian (1964), by Gore Vidal, describing his life and times. It is notable for, among other things, its scathing critique of Christianity.
Read it a long time ago. Loved it!
A faith so self evident it needed legal persecution of its competition.
..and of course an all knowing Christian God being complicit in this persecution knowing it would happen if he appeared
I have a great degree of affection for the classical Greco Roman culture and lament it's loss at the hands of these hateful religions. I am glad you are exposing them. Keep up the great work friend, I love your content
Thx Appreciate your interest! Do keep 'tuning' in for more. I have plenty more videos in the pipeline
Great insight into the Christian mindset , hissing at demon's at the sight of greek gods and defacing Marcus aurelius statue with the sign of a cross.
Appreciate the interest!
Christianity was the wokeness of the ancient world
based
Very interesting video!
Thanks! More in the pipeline.
Julian, one of the the last shining lights before christianity dragged the world into the dark ages☹️
He was a truly inspirational chap (!!) being a Philosopher/General/Statesman/Writer. And to his credit he never showed intolerance towards Christians despite his dislike of the belief.
He was certainly interesting, but a shining light ? I think not.
@@tobiasbellhouse8107 Interesting 'what if' regarding how things would have gone if he had lived longer
Good luck with that.
Can't say we didn't warn you.
What an utterly ridiculous claim.
Just discovered your channel and subscribed! Thank you for your content. Have you read, A Darkening Age, by Catherine Nixey? The tragedy of the Christian religious intolerance is there for all to see.
Thanks for subscribing! Yes I've read Catherine Nixey's excellent book and hope to do a. video review on it. She did unfortunately get some flak from people suggesting the book wasn't balanced/ that it was anti-Christian. But since the topic of the book was the active suppression of paganism and religious free thinking during the 4th and 5th centuries its difficult to see how else she could have written the book.
@@FlaviusClaudiusJulianus361 Yes indeed. I mean either they did the things she researched or they didn't. But then modern Christians can fall back on the " they weren't true Christians" argument . The Christians did a pretty good job of hating each other too.
This is my new favorite channel. Thanks man!
Welcome! Appreciate the interest!
I don't think smashing statues is the best way to follow God
There's nothing more beautiful than Greco-Roman sculpture. Was a huge cultural loss.
Thanks a lot for bringing forth so much material I have been hitherto unaware.
Always welcome Jerry! More in the pipeline :)
Emperor Julian really is a tragic figure. Noble, virtuous, wise, and intelligent, he did his best to restore Rome to its former glory, but too much damage had already been done.
I think you're right. He would probably have had a much better chance if he had come straight after Constantine. It's a shame Secundius Salutius, a pagan scholar and one of Julian's right hand men was offered the crown on Julian's death but refused to accept it. The new Emperor Jovian - a Christian - was very much a second choice.
When you say pagans in this context, do you mean all pantheists, or just the ones that still worshipped the old Roman gods?
I meant pagans as Christians viewed them so yes worshippers of old Roman Gods and also pantheists.
Pagans is everyone that worshiped the Divinity in some form that is not superstitious monotheism. This mean both panteism and the polytheists like romans (actuall greeks and romans were also a bit pantheists since they believe the earth, sea, rivers etc were all gods too).
Thesis: The New Testament
Antithesis: Paganism
Synthesis: Catholicism.
Julian was a little too early; but Theodosius figured it out.
Thesis: Judaism
Antithesis: Paganism
Synthesis: Pauline Gnostic Christianity.
Catholicism was a synthesis of Paul.
lmao... what is this nonesense?
@@jakek.403 Catholicism is a combination of early christianity with some paganism (while protestantism is neither of the three). So i see no nonsense in that statement.
The early Christian’s were basically the communists of their time: it’s like seeing Mao’s cultural Revolution but in antiquity
Was certainly a very uncertain and increasingly dangerous time for pagans and pagan worship.And especially so in the reign of Theodosius and Gratian and co. after Julians's death.
Thank you for the work you’ve done here, good stuff, you’ve earned another subscriber
Awesome, thank you!
Keep up the good work.
I doubt that the historical material discussed in your videos will ever be of great interest to the majority of people. Julian has been a long standing figure of interest to me, and what remains of his writings provide insights into the decline of paganism in the later stages of the Roman Empire.
In your future videos, I would like to see you discussing Julian's "Misopogon", whose themes are akind to Celsus "True Doctrine", but on the side of so-called philosophers turned vagabonds in the ancient world.
Thanks! Yes it a shame - the later Roman Empire and the end of antiquity/paganism is a fascinating subject - but as you say not of great interest to most. Would love to do a video on Mispogon - thx for the suggestion.
Another great video. :D
Thx! More on the way:)
The dark ages in Europe resulted from the destruction of anything pagan from the culture. The Ancient Greek science was a drastic casualty. Europe eventually got its science via the Islamic Golden Age ~800 - 1100 CE.
The bible Genesis stories directly contradicted what the Greek astronomers/mathematicians had worked out about our Earth. Essentially Greek thinking and science was totally incompatible with the biblical narrative
@@FlaviusClaudiusJulianus361 And therefore anathema to the Christians. The Pagan philosophers even worked out the existence of atoms and suggested a hypothesis of evolution. Christians couldn't stand it! Anything they couldn't tolerate they destroyed. No wonder people call "zealous" Christians a bunch of ChristPsychotics!
Does Pagisius imply that he is Christian and worships the martyrs of christianity?
Thx for watching! I think he must have been being a bishop but certianly seemed to have regrets.A pity Julian didn't elaborate more on Pegasus.
Cobstantine the Almighty. Phenominal Emperor
Controversial as well!
And criminal.
its very interesting thing about the early Christian mindset, they think the Greek gods was demons, but this is understandable, they wanted to erase the other religions. The interesting thing is the once the Roman born, Latin speaking Christians translated the Bible and read it...they was shocked , and rejected the Jehovah(/Elion/El or how you want to call it) as a false god, a demiurge... because of the never ending materials need it have, lands,money,animals,human slaves and sacrifices...
yes the contempt for pagan worship was inherited from judaism but the turning against Judaism and the split between Judaism and the new Christianity cult is a fascinating one. I think even the early Christians (the obvious example being Marcion) were quite aware the teachings of Jesus had a very different flavour to that of the Jewish scriptures. But patently the Jewish scriptures couldn't be jettisoned either as Jesus had never rejected them.
Righteous culture based on similar or dissimilar sentiments, bigotry, beliefs or fear , continues to hold humanity back and cause suffering
The ancient Israelites destroyed Rome with Christianity.
Certainly changed the entire nature of Roman culture prior to its demise.
St Augustine would have corrected the dubious Pegasius on the matter of Christian veneration of Martyrs, specifically in 'The City of God', Book 8, Chapter 27. The Martyrs are honoured for their loyalty to the True God, and all of their intercessory ability stems from this loyalty and service. Achilles, on the other hand, was perceived by many Fathers of the Church as the megalomaniac son of a demon, and consequently any honour paid to him was in fact paid either to devils or to the spirits of wrongly deified humans (assuming on holds to Euhemerism).
Thanks for that Tobias - very much so. Including City of God Book 8 Chap 27 below
Chapter 27.- Concerning the Nature of the Honor Which the Christians Pay to Their Martyrs.
But, nevertheless, we do not build temples, and ordain priests, rites, and sacrifices for these same martyrs; for they are not our gods, but their God is our God. Certainly we honor their reliquaries, as the memorials of holy men of God who strove for the truth even to the death of their bodies, that the true religion might be made known, and false and fictitious religions exposed. For if there were some before them who thought that these religions were really false and fictitious, they were afraid to give expression to their convictions. But who ever heard a priest of the faithful, standing at an altar built for the honor and worship of God over the holy body of some martyr, say in the prayers, I offer to you a sacrifice, O Peter, or O Paul, or O Cyprian? For it is to God that sacrifices are offered at their tombs - the God who made them both men and martyrs, and associated them with holy angels in celestial honor; and the reason why we pay such honors to their memory is, that by so doing we may both give thanks to the true God for their victories, and, by recalling them afresh to remembrance, may stir ourselves up to imitate them by seeking to obtain like crowns and palms, calling to our help that same God on whom they called. Therefore, whatever honors the religious may pay in the places of the martyrs, they are but honors rendered to their memory, not sacred rites or sacrifices offered to dead men as to gods. And even such as bring there food - which, indeed, is not done by the better Christians, and in most places of the world is not done at all - do so in order that it may be sanctified to them through the merits of the martyrs, in the name of the Lord of the martyrs, first presenting the food and offering prayer, and thereafter taking it away to be eaten, or to be in part bestowed upon the needy. But he who knows the one sacrifice of Christians, which is the sacrifice offered in those places, also knows that these are not sacrifices offered to the martyrs. It is, then, neither with divine honors nor with human crimes, by which they worship their gods, that we honor our martyrs; neither do we offer sacrifices to them, or convert the crimes of the gods into their sacred rites. For let those who will and can read the letter of Alexander to his mother Olympias, in which he tells the things which were revealed to him by the priest Leon, and let those who have read it recall to memory what it contains, that they may see what great abominations have been handed down to memory, not by poets, but by the mystic writings of the Egyptians, concerning the goddess Isis, the wife of Osiris, and the parents of both, all of whom, according to these writings, were royal personages. Isis, when sacrificing to her parents, is said to have discovered a crop of barley, of which she brought some ears to the king her husband, and his councillor Mercurius, and hence they identify her with Ceres. Those who read the letter may there see what was the character of those people to whom when dead sacred rites were instituted as to gods, and what those deeds of theirs were which furnished the occasion for these rites. Let them not once dare to compare in any respect those people, though they hold them to be gods, to our holy martyrs, though we do not hold them to be gods. For we do not ordain priests and offer sacrifices to our martyrs, as they do to their dead men, for that would be incongruous, undue, and unlawful, such being due only to God; and thus we do not delight them with their own crimes, or with such shameful plays as those in which the crimes of the gods are celebrated, which are either real crimes committed by them at a time when they were men, or else, if they never were men, fictitious crimes invented for the pleasure of noxious demons. The god of Socrates, if he had a god, cannot have belonged to this class of demons. But perhaps they who wished to excel in this art of making gods, imposed a god of this sort on a man who was a stranger to, and innocent of any connection with that art. What need we say more? No one who is even moderately wise imagines that demons are to be worshipped on account of the blessed life which is to be after death. But perhaps they will say that all the gods are good, but that of the demons some are bad and some good, and that it is the good who are to be worshipped, in order that through them we may attain to the eternally blessed life. To the examination of this opinion we will devote the following book.
by the Christian logics a person who kill himself should end in Hell, a lot of Christian martyrs in Roman times was absolutely doing anything possible to be killed by the State, from desertion from the army, to the openly negate the sacrificial duty's to the Emperors figure.. exist a lot of Roman cases of magistrates asking them to full fill their obligations, beg them to do their duty's, a lot of times...they where wanting to die , because the early Christians belived that Jesus will rise again very soon.
@@rutrem09 But one must differentiate between standing up for ones beliefs, knowing that doing so may result in death, and suicide. Suicide is the deliberate ending of ones own life due, often due to crushing despair. Martyrdom, on the other hand, is the conscious willingness to lay down ones life for the truth. No one would accuse Sir Thomas More of dying via suicide, despite the fact that he knew the ramifications of defying King Henry the 8th. Additionally, the New Testament is very clear that all pagan sacrifices were invalid. and thus could not be partaken in, since "the sacrifices of pagans are offered to demons, not to God". Martyrdom was thus the pinnacle of standing up for what was right, even if it resulted in death. As Eusebius said in his Historia Ecclesiastica regarding St Blandina; "she the small, the weak, the despised, who had put on Christ the great and invincible Champion, and who in many rounds vanquished the adversary and through conflict was crowned with the crown of incorruptibility. ”
@@tobiasbellhouse8107 so the sacrifices to Elion was sacrifices to a demon, so the Father of Jesus is a demon
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