This is pretty much the main reason I stopped railway modelling years ago. I can remember as a teenager in the early 2000s, being able to purchase a Hornby 14XX for £31.50. Okay the tooling was ex-Dapol and is now looking quite dated, but within a few years, locos of similar size were passing £40 at the cheapest retailers. Now I'm indulged in filmmaking full-time, I'm unable to spare anything even on a budget. Only Rapido's recent announcement of a Titfield Thunderbolt train pack will encourage me to invest, but even that will have to result in a few sacrifices. Thank you for covering this issue. Keep up the good work.
I HAVE THE SAME FRICKING QUESTION! I JUST WANT TO HAVE SOME FUN! AND THEN THEY BLAME THE VIDEO GAMES FOR TAKING AWAY THE YOUNG AUDIENCE. WHEN WILL THEIR AUDACITY END!
When I was a kid my dad took my brother and I to the local train show every year outside of Seattle. It was maybe $5 for most pre owned cars, $20-30 for locos. I went to the train show this year for old times sake with my younger cousin after we hadn't gone for probably ten years, and for those same pre owned cars it was over $25-30 and each loco was at least $100. The cheapest I saw was a boring grey Sealand container, just one, for $20! It's sad because model railroading is a good hobby but the price is killing it. For new kits though I think it's the same price as when I was younger. I've always been fascinated with Euro high speed rail and Kato's new TGV duplex set with ten cars is about $300. Really enjoy it but I wish it were easier to find new British and ICE sets.
We have two 3D printers and have just launches a small range of 009 rolling stock and loco bodies with more models planned in. OO , HO and N, so you are right there
The model train Hobby was always very expensive. They push their product as a Christmas ,birthday high end gift. Its said the Hobby is dying ,and that's been so since the 1950s ! No wonder, people who do buy them, lose interest, as they can't afford the accessories. This is an absurd world wide of phenomenon. Wonderful Marklin , so high. Price so high ,you dont make a profit because you SELL less. They should have loss leaders ,and older molds to get people in . Or if the trains are high, the accessories should be cheap....plus build pre made platforms. So many, single mothers etc ,dont have the ability to go make one ....in this day & age absurd!
Totally agree, Im 28 and 90% of my layout and locos are second hand, I simply cant afford to buy brand new directly from hornby Its simply too expensive.
We have far too many locos! But all but two of them were bought second hand, most for approx £20/25, like you I simple couldn't afford that many locos new. Mind you second hand prices have shot up
Every year there is a model railway exhibition right next to my house and the vast majority of them were bought from there, I often buy broken ones and fix them to save money but even the broken ones are becoming expensive. :(
I agree with your opinion 100%, we live in a culture where we (the consumer) think more expensive means better quality. This is achieved by the retail market industry feeding us advertising and marketing to convince us of this. I've been in manufacturing for decades and know once R&D and the tools is complete, its all pure profit after that. Many of the model train tooling dies are probably years old, and have long ago made their money back for the R&D and tooling. Take it there is a collector market that these model train manufacturers may be appealing to, but that is a also an expendable money market too. The model train market can be an expanding market if the manufacturers keep prices in the range of the beholder. Good rant...BTW. lets see if this comes to fruition? Probably not.. I enjoy your channel and glad to see the your channel is gaining viewers. Keep up the great work. Skol! Ron//
I've noticed when I go into the local shops everyone, including myself, is at least 55 years old or older. And the one shop is really only interested in selling the most expensive models, so I almost never go there.
Interesting reading the comments, I have built model railways for over 50 years and the price was always eye watering. I am also a mould toolmaker who has had the pleasure of making tools for Hornby and some of comments about tooling are somewhat inaccurate especially when it comes to CAD, CNC and price ... I remember when calculators came out, as soon as everyone was able to afford one the sums set at school became far more difficult, OK if you had a calculator, a bit unfair if you couldn't afford one. As with calculators CAD/CAM allows today's models to be far more detailed than yesteryear and to be honest the plastic parts are probably not that expensive, but putting them together and finishing them with high quality paintwork is expensive, modelers are very fussy and demand more, hence the price. Many years ago I bought Thomas and Percy for my kids, the mouldings were simple, they were moulded in the colour to be used, very little fitting or painting involved, this reflected in their reasonable price. To be fair to Hornby, I have seen the Lima based Deltic for sale at £60 new, whilst the Bachmann offering is twice the price, I have both and put next to each other the Bachmann version is far better. Hornby's railroad range using old or ex Lima moulds is a sensible way to help youngsters into the hobby. Prices are often half the premium version of the products and being less complicated tend to last well. The Bargain sections of most main online retailers offer some really good deals on new locomotives and rolling stock. "Budget Model Railways" does a good job, showing inexpensive ways to enter the hobby, maybe linking up with Hattons, Kernow and other retailers to promote the best new bargains is a good way forward, there is no need to pay the often quoted prices of over £150 for a locomotive, £50 - £60 allows a reasonable choice. Model railway shows, Ebay, car boot sales and the second hand section of retailers offer a great choice for used rolling stock for as little as a fiver. Model railway manufacturers are finding life tough at the moment, many have gone bust, it is only natural that they will try to capitalize on limited quantity high quality models, but please remember younger modelers are catered for by Hornby's Railroad range. There are plenty of card models for buildings available, modelling materials are not that expensive and PVA glue from a cheap store is as good as the expensive stuff. When I started my first railway, the choice was Wren, Trix or Triang Hornby, I bought Triang Hornby because that is what my pocket money would stretch to, even though I really wanted the Wren version Budget Model Railways are doing a great job showing that the hobby can be enjoyed on a limited budget, but we must remember we are not being fair to the industry by only quoting the price of top end models, after all my first car was a second hand Vauxhall Viva, because I couldn't afford a Jaguar XJS. Keep up the good work "Budget Model Railways" and it would be nice to think the manufacturers read these comments, because there is a lot they could learn.
Hi and many thanks for such a full and informed comment, I appreciate you taking the effort. We probably agree on most points, I would just like to see more of the range released and at a slightly lower price. I still struggle to see how the four wheeler coach can be £17 given that the wagon on the same chassis is only £10, I suspect the cheaper models are being used to subsidise the high end ones. My main concern is that the hobby seems to be only catering for the richer older enthusiast, even the model press seems that way, but as you say we are doing our best to solve that. We know that many people have taken up the hobby from seeing our videos and our layout at exhibitions, just imagine what could happen if the press and suppliers tried the same instead of just preaching to the converted. Thanks again for your comment and support
Hi, I agree with you £17 is too expensive for the 4 wheeled coach, I've just looked on Hattons website where it is listed at £13.88p new. I have one left over from my kids Thomas the Tank engine days, It consists of 3 main mouldings (Chassis, Body, Roof), plus window mouldings, 2 axles with wheels and a coupling at each end. The body is painted with lining pad printed. There is more work in producing a carriage than a wagon that consists of just two main mouldings. The factory probably charges around £5 at the gate, there is import duty, shipping and VAT to be added, raising the price to around £8, then the shop marks it up by between 30 and 60% to cover the cost of premises, staff, NIC contribution, pension contribution etc giving a price in the shop of around £12, so £13.88 is not too far wide of the mark. As you can see there is a big difference in price between the factory and the shop, for which Hornby is not responsible. The price could be reduced in a number of ways ... selling direct ... selling higher numbers or more competition between shops (Budget Model Railways could play a part here by advertising the shop offering the best deal) I could not find it on the internet cheaper than Hattons, who also have lots of second hand ones for sale at around £7. Even 50 or more years ago the railway modeler magazines were aimed at older people with a section for younger readers. Thomas the Tank has done more than anything else to bring the young into the hobby. It is time for the manufacturer to produce their own high quality children's videos featuring a new range of character engines in much the same way the Rev Awdry did with Thomas. Re-invention is the way to survive and prosper. In the meantime BMR can and does play its part by advising where viewers can get the best bargains.
Absolutely agree. I'm 50, live in Australia and was looking to get back into the hobby - but the prices are outrageously high with a nasty markup even after the exchange rate conversation. The weather is fantastic here for garden railways, not to mention huge gardens but it's just too expensive - and I'm in a very well paid job.
Thank you for making this- I’m 14 and what I’ve found is that the saddest thing now is people accepting it or trying to ignore it which is what the likes of Hornby and Bachmann want us to do... upon starting a large Edinburgh Waverley plan and planning on building up stock, I’ve found myself getting more and more interested in kits. My question to Hornby is why did they move to China in the first place if they were going to charge considerably more? Great video, thanks
All good points. Hornby make track in China, Peco make identical track in the UK, they cost the same, so where are the savings? Have fun with your layout. We also have a video on young people and model railways which you might like
It is probably due to increased shipping costs on the heavy loads of containers, and very prescise builds of modern stock that require a lot of money. However, I agree some models are way too much money, such as 60 pound for a decent coach new. My advice for scoping with this is to downscale you plans, to try and go as basic as possible, and to always consider the cheapest options first (a good method of keeping costs down is to go for used like new locos, or bargains at retailers, but to make sure you go for recent models, as they run better. Rolling stock is something I rarely get new, as the old stuff is way cheaper. I can definitely relate, as a 15 year old who wanted to do a full great western mainline junction with 4 tracks in London, now doing a countryside mainline with no junction to accommodate the heavy trains I already got cheaply. Hope I helped :)
Definitely agree, cost is putting people off starting in the hobby - I always buy second hand now, locos for about £30 etc - something with some play value that doesn't really matter if it gets a bit damaged. But these new locos at £130+ is something I just cant justify buying at this time. Seeing as PS4 and XBoxes are all about the same price now . . .its easy to see which one parents are more likely to go for. When I had space for railways, I was always making stuff out of recycling as I just couldnt afford to buy model kits (some buildings are so expensive!)
Makes me cringe watching videos on TH-cam and who ever it is says "I bought this loco for £100, which i think is great value" what? Really? And then they go and get the DCC chip at £30 or what ever they are! It's unreal, yes some of the newest stuff is super detailed and run beautifully but as you say, surely they don't need to be that expensive. This is also another reason why I refuse to sell any of my railway models because when I eventually have the room to make a decent layout I'll have the stuff ready and waiting because no way would I buy brand new starter kits or locos/rolling stock! Your right a rant is good 😂👍
It's all relative - £100+ for a super-detailed locomotive that looks AMAZING and has DCC fitted is a great bargain. BUT, not everyone wants that. To bring people into the hobby, the basic stuff is perfect - and giving people options for those are definitely what is needed. For me, there's some mid-tier stuff, locos that would've been £150-200 five years ago that are now sneaking down below £100 - I am happy with those. If they were available as their own range, that'd be so useful. And the Railroad locos would sell like hot cakes if they were priced accurately - not only will beginners/newbies to the hobby buy things like the £30 Class 33, but others will buy them to use as kitbashing parts or a nice project to add detailing parts, weathering etc.
True, the problem is that not many people have £500 and the real issue is not high prices where it might be justified but the lack of a cheaper option to bring people in
I have come into the hobby late in life (Now 62). I found some old model train stuff in the loft and thought that I'd put together a small layout to amuse the nieces and nephews. The stuff I had was at least 45 to 50 years old. I laid it out onto a piece of board and found that there wasn't a complete circuit. Happily at the end of my road is a model shop so I bought the missing sections of track however I then found that the new track had a different profile the old stuff and there was a step from one to the other. "Bugger better buy some more new track" I said. New track bought and circuit put together. Old loco's and rolling stock put on new track...."bugger the larger flanges on the wheels of the old rolling stock run along on the sleepers". Only one thing for it get new rolling stock. Thanks to Ebay not all of it bought new, however 3 years later the layout has become a 6 by 12 foot baseboard concentrating on the BR blue diesel era with, at the last count 42 sets of points, a 4 way Gaugemaster analogue controller, 8 mainline diesels, 8 blue diesel shunters of various classes, 5 steam engines, 40 odd assorted goods wagons, 20 or so passenger coaches, a dozen or so Metcalfe buildings and various scenery purchases and I've spent in excess of £3000 !!! At least it does amuse the nieces and nephews. The affect on my wife is a different matter.
I'd also like to point out that the capabilities of CNC mills and EDM machines designed specifically for tool making has really sped up and automated processes. For example the surface finish a high-end CNC mill can achieve makes the need for manual polishing obsolete or highly reduced. Electrodes for EDM can be machined overnight in batches autonomously and to a high degree of accuracy. It's one reason there are fewer tool makers than there used to be.
I teach machine trades on the college level. I have over 55 years in the trabe and teaching,( I started in 1968). There is only one reason why... greed. These train parts can be manufactured at , and sold for 90% of the cost now charged.
As someone from a younger demographic (28 y/o), I look at these prices - for example, that train consist being north of £300 - and I just think, "christ, my car is worth less than that". And I instantly go back to cheaper hobbies. Younger people have less money and less space. And, as pointed out, a lot of the lower end models are easily in the range of £5-15 in terms of a sensible retail cost (depending on the item) - but they're simply not going for it. It's bad business. They seem to be set in a way of doing things, and don't look at the possibility of opening up the market by charging less, but getting more, because more people are buying (which also gives you larger scales of economy). A good example of counter-intuitive pricing being good is with PC games on Steam, where they make their most money during the twice annual sales - a time when games have huge discounts, anything from 30% to 90%. Although, coincidentally, I think the computerised train sim community suffers the same conservatively minded business model, too. They seem to overcharge for the sort of content other games can produce, even with the smaller potential market, which in my mind is definitely wasting the hobby's potential there, too.
You are absolutely right. Though the age issue is not limited to younger people, the pricing has stopped me taking the hobby up in my 30s,40s and now in my 50s. I had a setup when I was a child and have always wanted to do it again. As a keen modeller my young daughter also wanted us to set up a layout. But the prices are just insane and we never will at current prices. It's a shame and people with layouts are far rarer than when I was growing up as a result. I recall 2 of my teachers had model railways and about 5 of my mates did. Now I know only 1 person with one... which speaks volumes.
Well, I agree. :-) I find it's cheaper to build model railways, than it is to buy the trains. I do love the modelling side above all else, but I still haven't bought any trains for some years now. Hopefully the future will be different.
I've tried to make 3d printed ho scale model trains before, I started really simple with some basic 4 wheel chassis, a "universal chassis" that I could attach various 3d printed bodies to, and after some experimentation, I discovered that the biggest issue is the wheels, it is really hard to print wheels that are reasonably round, and the axles are really fragile, that said it was just a M3d I got from a christmas sale, not some extremely proffesional rig. Higher end machines might have better results.
Have a look on ebay. I've purchased bags of wheel sets (up to 100) from China, for scratchbuilding and kitbashing models. Quite cheap and not much cost to post. All metal wheels, metal axles, fine scale treads and flanges too. There is the odd dud which is buckled. Goes on display on the scrap pile at the workshops. The only thing I wish would be mentioned in ads is the axle length.
Mate I hate to break it to you, but in the states it's getting just as obnoxious price wise. You are absolutely right about the hobby getting overpriced. I just bought a Bachmann N Scale set for my son and it set me back nearly 120 dollars US. The nearly identical set 10 years ago was 54 dollars US. I thinks it's honestly gouging and greed, the industry knows kids are flocking to the latest XBOX or Playstation and are making hobbies in general a "niche" market with prices to match. It's a damn shame because so many fathers, older men and kids love to hand down this hobby and it's being priced by shills and "limited production". That's my rant.
I returned to the hobby last Christmas, after a 15-20 break. I was stunned at the price increases, but then, it has been so long. The last I remember paying, for something like a Hornby Scotsman was about £75, a Bachmann standard class 4 was about £50-60. I was also into kit built locos, which I didn’t mind paying the extra for. As a kid in the 70’s, I built a layout on pocket money. There was far less available than there is today, and it was much more basic, because it was Triang, Hornby, HO Lima, and Airfix kits. The bonus for me was, being able to use mail order catalogues, I remember buying an Iron Duke train set for about a £1 per week, the Mainline J72 train set was a break from the crude Hornby Triang stock, which looked beautiful back then, I’m sure it was £15 cash, or 70-80p per week. Airfix kits, plus the new, at that time Airfix model Railways, I could buy from a local shop, they’d let me deposit money on a weekly basis, where I’d put my pocket money in weekly, for a model put on one side till I completed the full amount. I can’t remember if a Jinty I bought was £5.00, or £7, although I do remember the Diesel dock shunter being about £3.00.
"Nellie", "Polly" and "Connie" 0-4-0s once retailed at 33 shillings and sixpence. Basically regarding Hornby it is greed, there's no two ways about it!
Harley Davidson here in the states is going through the exact same thing. Their buyers keep getting older and older (for the same basic reasons) and while they are doing OK now they can already see the writimg on the wall. Harley is desperately marketing toward younger people now. Hopefully model rr companies will get the same clue at some point.
Harley Davidson has ran for years on the "outlaw biker" image and history of there bikes. Since the 80's there been behind in tech in other bikes, often there keep stuck in the past by said history.
I abandoned the hobby back in 97 when I started high school. Not for a lack of desire, but cost. I'm into German model trains which living in the US was darn near impossible to get until buying on the internet became common. I would love to get back into the hobby with DCC, someday [sigh].
Absolutely agree, I'm 24, decided to start modeling at the beginning of the year after seeing my dad loving painting up all his buildings and running all his locos when I was a kid, but never realised how expensive it is! I don't get a lot of spare cash out or my wage and in about 7 months and with about £200vI've managed to buy myself a starter set and track pack D, it's annoying because I know I'm going to have to save another £110 for Track packs A, B & C just to simply get 2 ovals of track up and running. Nevermind the baseboards that are 10ft around my whole basement, If I keep on at this rate I might have layout by the time I'm 65! Really good channel here, really helping me out with buildings and scenery etc on the cheap, keep it coming guys! 👍👍
Portrait painting is also very expensive if you just buy the finished portrait instead of actually painting one yourself. Why don't train modellers actually scratch build models instead of buying the finished article? Surely this is the difference between railway modelling and playing with a trainset. What is the cost of scratch building a model train set vs buying off the shelf? That would be an interesting video! I've even seen a youtube video of people making a whole house layout entirely out of cardboard. Amazing how creative some modellers get when funds are limited. Money is no excuse, unless you're in some imaginary competition for model accuracy with people who just buy stuff from expensive professional model manufacturers.
absolutely agree. not all of us have wages or pensions. it's just to expensive. then adults are wondering "why are young people not into the hobby these days?". I get 10 euros pocket money each week. How am I supposed to be able to buy a train that costs upwards of €100??? It's ridiculous
@@pedanticmongrel Yes, but then there are other expenses that come with the hobby (obviously I'm not suggesting that everything should be free, but it's not cheap either) My recent trip to the arts and craft shop: 2 sheets of mounting board -7 euros Paint brushes- 5 euros Brick paper - 7 euros Plumbers hemp - 5 euros Paint - 5 euros Nearly 30 euros gone for some materials for scratch building projects. As I said, I'm not expecting things to be free, but I dont want to spend 10 weeks modelling nothing saving up for a train as I'd have no funds for anything else! Anyway I feel that I'm complaining way too much here as this hobby is still very fun and rewarding!
@@jonathankelly7430 i get €10 each MONTH that makes it impossible for me to even buy a locomotive from märklin, i think all trains are overpriced. like €309 for ONE locomotive and €79 for ONE wagon. my dad dosn't let me buy anything over €50 so i just quitted with this hobby :(
Interesting video.......I model in n gauge,and if you look at some of the new prices of models,such as a dcc 2 6 4 Pacific up around £270 your eyes begin to water!!.....I spent all of my working life in retail, and sometimes a company like Hornsby,that specialises in a specific range/ line can find,as popularity declines, that to remain afloat,pay shareholders, introduce new lines and stock,that ,after reducing every cost they can( redundancies etc) the only way to survive is to push up prices until sales start to slow ,then the price remains at that level.........as to the China end totally agree....a pair of tourmaline earrings in 9 carat gold were sent ,free delivery, to me just before Christmas for £4.99!!.....keep up the good work!
I came into this hobby 3 years ago (I retire in a months time)I fancied doing a train layout for my own amusement. I looked in the window of our local shop and nearly had a heart attack at the prices. I binned the idea for some weeks and then I was delivering stuff to local charity shop and saw a Gt Western set for £15 along with another box of track and stuff for a £10. Bought it and my son sponsored my layout board and foam base. Thats how i got started, went on eBay and bought old buildings and accessories 2nd hand. Repainted all the engines and coaches to German colours and restencilled as DB German Federal Railways. My layout is an imaginery german town and I love it, It is now being redesigned incorporated a sawmill and some extra sidings. All. in DC because DCC is far too expensive and causes too much trouble
Very interesting, and I agree with much of what you say. My progress in the hobby has been very slow due to the cost. My son was getting into it but was put off by the cost as he doesn't want to spend all his pocket money on the hobby! You are right in your views. Would be good to get the manufacturers views on this
My son loves Hornby trains! Bought him the Thomas tank engine starter set for £60 and oval track! He loves it so he naturally looks to expand his collection! James the red loco alone costs £90. What a rip off, now hes upset because its out of our/his prize range, things need to change he's only 4 and is the next generation for model rail hobby. Sad times if we cant even afford the starter packs.
Exactly the issue, well said. You get a cheap set and then everything after that is a fortune. It's what happened to us , but we found second hand via eBay and shops like classic rail were the answer. But you should be able to do it new!
Sorry, what I meant was, prices should be low enough new that people can expand. I'm led to believe it's the lack of being able to expand it that did for the new red and white kids loco starter set, piles of them reduced everywhere. But if they could afford to tool that up and release it for £40 then something like James the red engine should be £40/50
Even back when I was young(ish), the Thomas stuff was too expensive. Had it been cheaper (which it should be, for a product aimed primarily at children / teenagers-with-aspergers-who-didn't-and-will-never-grow-out-of-Thomas-like-me), I'd probably have had more than just the Thomas set. I always wanted to have Edward because of his 4-4-0 configuration. Never happened.
I used to be a member of a model railway club,but left because I was starting to loose interest. I’m thinking about coming back to the hobby but the prices are just too high and can’t justify paying the price of the newer models.
I can agree with pretty much all your rant :) I started with hornby sets that were bought by my parents for Christmas, later in life I moved onto 16mm:1" scale, four times larger than hornby and running in the garden, the staggering thing that you pointed out about the G Scale been nearly the same price as one loco and four coaches is that a live steam (not electric) loco can be bought from suppliers such as accucraft or roundhouse engineering for a little over £500 for an entry level loco into proper live steam running trains. What's more the track the locos run on been 32mm gauge in my case is around £90 for 12yards of track. For around the same length of hornby track your looking at £40 only half the price not a quarter as you would expect if price was proportionate to size.......and don't even get me started on N gauge lol. My point is that there is a need for prices to reduce for OO to maintain been a hobby that entices people. I suspect and have seen over the last 5-10years the 16mm scale really becoming popular, and I expect that will continue, there are companies that supply coaches to 16mm scale size for £30-50 for a four wheel coach, a bogie coach been around £60-70. All food for thought. Not to.distract too much from OO or the work you two do making these videos, but you have a real valid point that really need to be addressed before the big players in the hobby bow out due to their customer base diminishing.
Wonderful analytical video. 8-) You're doing great work for promoting a healthier approach to the entire hobby. Keep up the good work ! As someone looking into getting into the hobby (but only slightly, I prefer home-made scenery/terrain, only need the rails, locos and some cars), I've always been dismayed at all the absurd prices. Even a decade and more ago, the situation was exactly the same, sadly. An acquaintance of mine even wrote a series of blog articles, at that time, on how he's become very passionate at promoting a home-brewn approach to the hobby, precisely because of all the constant overpricing. When even tiny accessories for typical H0 railways cost some 20-30 euros or pounds on average, and even the cheapest locomotives are barely under 50 euros or pounds, that's outright shameful. I don't mind overpriced high-end stuff for the details-obsessed pros, but not even starter kits have decent pricing these days.
ABSOLUTELY SPOT ON!!! I have been saying this for ages to any of friends who will listen, the cost is simply absurd, its putting me off getting into the hobby and I'm 26! Yes I have a 40 hour week in my job but they need to re-examine their pricing and as soon as possible, Hornby need to sort themselves out, the prices they expect for starter locos kit and everything is mental, very well explained video, you have yourself a new subscriber my good sir!
Great comments great vid ...the only thing I would say there are lot of people who actually buy at inflated prices... myself I try all avenues to buy stuff occasionally a new one ....yep I’m one of the oldies nearly 70 ....but came to hobby late and although retired still do not have a huge disposable income but you are right we need new blood in the hobby .....it was a good rant ....regards Fred
That's the problem , the price of any product is what people are prepared to pay, not its actual cost. All the time three are enough people prepared to pay high prices( just 500 on limited runs) then the prices will remain high.
The situation here in Australia is the same, with an even smaller market than the UK. There are a number of companies that produce Australian prototype locos and rolling stock in small limited batches in factories in China. The locos start at about AU$280 for a small diesel and wagons go for about AU$260 for a pack of six four wheel wagons as an example. Bear in mind theses models are very high quality with a lot of detail, but the up front cost is not insignificant. Based on the cost I would say this compares well with the UK examples you give. UK, US, Japanese and European models are more expensive in local retailers compared to what you can buy for online. The second hand market is crazy here, with inflated pricing for low quality items that people still seem to buy (especially eBay!). Model railway exhibitions have second hand stalls that are popular and sell out of any good items early. Watching your videos I am always envious of the prices you buy second hand items for.
I'm Australian in the 50+ age group, it was always an expensive hobby here. I think that what has changed is people's expectations as to how well a locomotive should run, thanks to TH-cam. Thus entry level locomotives by Hornby may look pretty, but are terrible to control (I'm looking at you Mr Pug and your 0-4-0 mates). This is ridiculous in 2017. Then you find that your upgrade locomotives are a hit and miss affair, and each miss being a $$$$ loss, and frustration. Sorry, i'm not in the hobby to increase frustration. One gets wary and keeps one's wallet in one's pocket. Where I think Rovex/Triang/Hornby shot themselves in the foot was not switching to HO. I understand they were unable to make their motors small enough to fit the smaller scale, but when that was no longer an issue, they should have swapped. Their production market is now curtailed to us British outline modlers, they have a limited, finite and dwindling world wide market. And since i'm on a rant, the price of rolling stock is prohibitive (flabbergastingly, eye wateringly, extortionate) But I guess this is the steady income stream that keeps the manufacturers afloat whilst they wait for the large bubbles of income that arise each time a new expensive tooling of locomotives hits the shelves. I wonder if going back to good basics would sustain the hobby, or if that simpler take on the hobby is a thing of a simpler past. Maybe my basics are too basic for tomorrow's modeler. Too many board execs and not enough enthusiasts at the control panel. They are neglecting to bring to market fun. Check out "Sort of Interesting Trains" on TH-cam for his video "you spent how much" Makes me sad. Fun guy btw :)
I'm late to the table here but better late than never right. I've just recently been able to bring out of storage a Lima set my grandfather gave me when I was 5 (I'm early 40's). Here in Australia it's a ridiculous priced hobby to be considering. Surely they can re-release some models using old tooling at a cheaper price than the newer models, further more having big runs of a single model make it cheaper per piece, more people able to afford an item can increase the fan base, pick a couple models to start and they'll know if it works. Even I've seen the increase in 'limited runs' being used more and more to control the price versus effort/outlay, and certainly not just this hobby. The costs involved have me looking at well used second hand and how much I can make/repair myself with everyday items, this will give the manufacturers virtually no income from me, and everyone else in my shoes. Surely some of them see this happening.
I think part of the problem is that not as many kids want to get into the hobby anyway nowadays, meaning that they need to make higher prices in order to make the same amount of money as they did years ago.
I agree with everything stated here. I've been banging on about this for ages. My son loved the usual push along plastic Thomas trains etc. When he wanted to 'upgrade' to a real electric trainset, we bought a Hornby Percy electric set. We were very disappointed. Very cheap plastic and no where near child friendly. Bits broke easily (even putting the track together) and my son soon lost interest, as did I. At his age, I was asking for railway accessories for Christmas and Birthdays and building my layout! Unfortunately, my son quickly moved on to a different hobby all together. As you say, catering for the older generation is not a sensible long term proposition. Very sad.
Insane prices, I find train videos relaxing, but I don't want one, I'm just here watching yours and other channels for the dioramas! Hornby are cheeky effers! Perhaps if they were very cheap I would get one tbf, but I've always been aware of the prices in the back of my mind after being into dollhouse minatures years ago! Lol I'm a 25 year old female hahaha I am the opposite demographic XD
Lol, mind you I would place an evens bet that prices wouldn't come down. The hobby is aimed only at the high end big spender with no long term plan to expand the hobby by encouraging newer,younger less affluent people into the hobby.
You are correct about everything you said here. In 1969 when I first started collecting "N" Scale trains, you could get an engine for about $10.00 and a freight car costs about $2.00. TODAY, an engine costs about $150.00 and any kind of "reasonable" freight car costs about $20 or $30 or $40.00 and up! As you pointed out, they are all made in China and they probably costs no more than a dollar or two to make. It is a big rip off. Just wanted to point out that here in the states, it is the same thing. Train cars are very expensive. Also, those fancy German plastic building kits are extremely expensive. An average building kit costs about $50.00 (for a small one) to over $175.00 for something bigger. Recently, I noticed a building kit for a European style Monastery building kit. It is a very large kit and I was curious as to what it costs. I found it and the price was almost $500.00 for it! I had no intention of buying it anyway but was curious as to what it cost. I find that just about every single time I see a kit, it costs about $50.00 or $100.00 per kit but if I scratch build it myself, MY cost is about $5.00 or so. The hobby is getting outrageously expensive. -Regards, Ron
Coming from an overseas South American modeler where anything and everything MUST be imported, I´ve known nothing but clear disadvantages of dedicating myself to this hobby. I walked into it for the first time when I lived in the US back during my teens and reassumed the hobby in 2011. Since reassuming, I had to buy everything from scratch. The local model hobby stores didn´t know a single thing about DCC, (which was the way I prefered to go this time). Only through some very small and limited retailers could I get my hands on such things locally, the rest was just importation (and the fees that come with it). Track, rolling stock and scenery was relatively easy to come by in the stores but accessibility didn´t necessarily translate to inesxpensive. Then it hit me to go check the youtube and the MRR channels and boy was I in for a treat! My most important overseas purchase (to me at least) would definitely be the precision tools (of which I purchased a very large selection through Micro Mark). These represent my possibility to tackle this hobby fairly on my own. In the end , places like the US and UK (to mention a few) do have a very strong MRR industry and that is shown through the travelling expos and shows, not to mention the countless MRR associations (many usually close to peoples homes where they can sort out all kinds of doubts and issues with fellow members in no time). Luxury i can't afford in these latitudes because of lack of such associations. I believe that 3D printing has come for many modelers as a real solution to their problems and certain prototypical etching that just can't be bought through the established market. New techniques of modeling shared unselfishly through extensive and dedicated youtube tutorials paved the way instead of having to buy specific MRR magazines in the past that might not have even addressed the issue or solved ones specific problem that today is solved by posting a message to the generous youtube modeler in his channel (and receiving a reply!). Bottom line, costs are relative to the effort we (as a group are willing to pay) and in exchange go about the extra mile as to come up with convincing and innovative solutions that are downright inexpensive, ingenious and can help make you build prototypical representations regardless of your geographic location. In my case all my purchased scenery kits do need a certain degree of kitbashing, not to mention that all need new signs because they all come in English. I believe we are in an era as to not sacrifice our hard earned money on the thing we can model for ourselves convincingly and purchase those we simply can´t. My two cents.....
Hoping people obtain a little more insight regarding others experience rather than addressing the length, style, grammar, etc. It’s sad that people will still criticize ANY aspect of a post and not the content.
Nearly three years late to the game here, but since lockdown and getting back into the model trains I've come across your channel and it is genius. Scatter on a corduroy swatch for a veg patch, roofing felt for ballast, black sandpaper and strips of a white sticky label for road. We sold off the large majority of our locos, rolling stock, and buildings two years ago, it had just been sitting boxed away for a few years before that, and kept what is still a good amount for when the nephews/grandkids are old enough. As I've said to my Dad many times in the last two or three months, you really wouldn't want to be starting out or getting into trains in 2020 with the price of it these days.
I agree. I've recently got back into the hobby in my early 40's and if it wasn't for ebay and hunting around for ex-collector stock I would't have bothered. I don't understand why Hornby and the rest are so expensive, they are shooting themselves in the foot really. I never buy from a Hornby shop, the prices are ridiculous.
Absolutely agree with this, I feel the cost will scare people off. I'm holding on to the 00 models I have for when I *hopefully* have enough room, for the moment I've moved on to the digital side of the hobby and Train Simulator it's cheaper in comparison to models but you loose the physical aspect - until my pockets get deeper though i'll be concentrating on my screen tan :)
A well presented fair and informative video. My dear wife bought me a train set for Xmas which really was a pleasant surprise. The next suprise though was not at all. I really was staggered at the prices of additional trains and carriages and this will now limit how far I go with the hobby. I am learning how to go cheaper and see that buying brand new will be a very limited option. Thanks for the video really well explained.
You're so right about this! as a teen living in italy ive tried starting a model railway a few times, but i always gave up because of how expensive it is. The starter sets 0-4-0s are literally 50 POUNDS now, isnt that just crazy?!
Very interesting video. I agree prices are steep. The Demographic is mainly for the retired on good pension. Myself came back to the hobby at early 40’s on an average wage with a family. Now at 52 still love the hobby today. You have a strong argument here. Over the last few years see prices ramp up. I understand much of it is manufacturing costs? I am sure many younger people would love to get into the hobby? It will be interesting to see what happens when the larger older demographic pass on in kinder terms. How will the manufactures deal with this?
I'm not convinced its manufacturing costs, given the cost of items from China. The price of a product is what the customer will pay, not what it cost to make. A DCC chip can't cost £80, yet that's what it adds to the price of a loco, you are paying for the features not the cost of making it.
From what I understand? China have demanded higher wages in the last few years. Also import chargers. Hence the price hike. I am sure there is a large profit margin for the manufacturers saying that? To themit is a “ Business”. Apparently according to Bachmann? If a OO gauge guards van was made in the UK you would be looking to pay over £40+! The problem here is that wages have not gone up in line. A political hot potato at the moment.
Wage prices have gone up in China due to a shortage of skilled workers, but not as much as the prices have risen in the UK. There is no way the four wheel coach can cost £17.
What do you think the answer is? What I don’t want to see at all with this is the hobby going over to just the rich and wealthy only. This hobby should be for all people.
After your unfortunate 3 in 1 and WD40 utube, I have to say I totally agree with you on this one. I think all your arguments hold water and are clearly and well made. I am utterly amazed that nobody has tried to capitalise any more than they seem to have, on what must be a good market out there. My children had model trains and now my grand children are ready for them. Every year I go to the Warley annual show and it is absolutely crowded out for two days. Never mind all the individuals and clubs all over the UK and abroad, the attendance at the Warley show would in itself keep the industry in mink coats. But a message to Bachmann, Hornby, et al, although I can afford it, I don't buy anything unless it is on offer or is second hand. Precisely for the reasons concerning the lack of fairness to others who should be encouraged to take up the hobby, but also because it simply smacks of taking the piss!
This is bang on. I live in western Canada, not close to a hobby shop and not close to the border with the U.S.A. No weekend shopping trips for me. Typically, I see what I would call "not quite junk" class N-scale locomotives, in either the classic EMD F9 or an early GP series, with plastic bodies, mostly plastic frames, little to no detailing, garbage paintwork, etc. starting at $150 plus postage. For something decent, like Kato, tack on as much again - more if you want a more "up-to-date" locomotive. This is _before_ adding a DCC control chip, or sound chip and speaker - very costly unless obtained from China. For freight cars, tank cars, gondolas, - all the standard freight rolling stock, even poor examples are around $45-$50 (All plastic) by the time postage is added. I'm sure this deters a lot of young people who might be interested; it has certainly deterred me, a senior retired on a small fixed income. In 1967, when N-scale was very new in Canada, I received an N-scale train set for Christmas, and over the next 4 years gradually built a layout and acquired about 20 pieces of rolling stock, plus the original "road" locomotive - an EMD F9. It ran OK, but there was just one. I couldn't afford "kit" buildings - almost everything was card stock and disposable chopsticks, plus some "chidren's craft paint." I was able to get 1 yard lengths of flex-track for expanding the layout, but I had very few turnouts. I doubt I could do something similar today for under about $700, unless I had a very good "in" with a club in a town not too far away. I took one look recently at the DCC systems currently offered commercially, and I'm appalled. The technology - much of it - is over 30 years old. Using the modular electronics available today, it would not be hard to scratch-build a full control system for a fraction of what even a DC throttle pack goes for. There are open-source electronics and control systems that have been developed recently, and I think we'll see a lot more of those. But if a kid is really broke, and not savvy with electronics, he might do something I've seen being done in India: buy a very cheap radio controlled model car with transmitter for under $5 (don't know what that is in Rupees), then strip out the radio control and motor. Scratch build a locomotive body, frame, wheels and trucks using cardboard, foamboard and bits of metal from beverage cans. Add a 9V battery & you've got a radio-controlled battery powered train set. There are videos of some of these on TH-cam. It's amazing what can be done with cardboard, glue, and imagination. A lot of the pricing I see here for rolling stock simply does not make sense, for the reasons you've laid out. Perhaps in the U.S.,A., where there are many more people, the economics are better. But even at that, for a 10-14 year-old child to build up a layout is not cheap.
You are absolutely right. I used to do model trains with my dad and whilst he funded it it was fine, I moved out got my own job etc but can't imagine starting out on my own for my own models and trains, I just don't have the disposable income!
That's what a lot of people are telling us, especially your age group which in My view is the market they should be aiming at. Mind you take a look at second hand it brings the prices right down.
When Irv Athearn first started producing his ho scale f7, the price was $7.00 usd. Car kits were priced at $2.50 and $3.50 usd. well into the 1960's. The prices today are insane and the product isn't 3ven produced domestically.
But in 60's I earned maybe $2/hr two years ago when I retired $42/hr so that engine at 3 1/2 hrs wage $100 + and not great quality compared to today, all relative
In the UK wages have not gone up for ten years yet prices have gone up 20%+ , I'm earning exactly the same as I did in 2007 yet everything I buy has gone up, some model railway items have gone up nearly 40% in that time.
Totally agree with ALL your comments in the video. People have commented here that ebay is a cheap way of getting into the hobby- I would have agreed 6 years ago (when I first got into the hobby) but not now! What new people to the hobby don't seem to realise is that they are artificially forcing the prices up- not just on ebay. I bought a Pullman Observation Coach in 'like new' condition for £38 only 3 years ago on there, I've just seen one sell for £91!!! I do believe that people bid stupidly and if they held back and 'await the next one' prices will fall back to what they once were. The reason I said ‘not just on ebay’ is that people seem to forget that ebay is available to everyone 24/7 and when I attended a local Model Rail Exhibition recently the prices had gone through the roof there too- a seller behind a stall said “that’s what they’re goin for on ebay- so I match the price!” (FYI- Model Fairs used to offer discounted products at ‘trade stalls’). Hornby are also watching ebay (of course) and are responding by re-releasing those popular items at an inflated cost- doh! "Supply and demand" as they say.
You raise some valid points about the cost of new model railway equipment and the detrimental effect it must be having attracting new younger people into the hobby. I'd like to add a point about buying second hand, especially on auction sites - this has become expensive too, as prices have become inflated by "collectors" who are mostly older people, usually men, who collect not because second-hand plastic toys really have any intrinsic collectable value but because they remind them, nostalgically, of their childhood (this is certainly the case for me). But what us older enthusiasts tend to forget is that as our generation diminishes and eventually disappears, the market for second-hand plastic trains will also diminish and prices will hopefully return to a more realistic level because there will be fewer nostalgic, relatively wealthy retired old men to pay inflated prices for them.
I have a similar problem, albeit not with train sets. I'm into Tamiya Mini 4wd. Depending on where you shop, the cars can cost between £5-10 and again for upgrade parts any where other than direct from japan can be upto double the cost. But that's not the big problem. The issue is the track cost, sure you can always build your own if you have both the skills and tools, but to get an entry track (simple 2 lane oval) can cost around £150-£200 whilst the same simple oval 3 lane can cost around £350-£450. Extra track sections can cost anywhere between £100-£250. This is factoring in the shipping and import/customs/tax. In japan and america, they retail at about £150 for the 3 lane, £50 for the 2 lane. We have over the top costs for everything, it's hard to get into any kind of hobby other than gaming (pc/console) without stupidly excessive costs. I miss living over seas down in SE Asia. I have a saying "The UK is where 'fun' comes to die.".
I’m lucky to have second hand shop near me and if I go to hamleys and I think out what I’ll buy and my budget and even though I know they are expensive I come out with not even half I thought I’d get I’ve seen in old model produced in England still being produced somehow move from 50 to 270, HOW! I’m an early teen and most other people are old and I go to hamleys and feel out of place because I’m younger yet more privileged
You’ll hate the prices of models here in NZ. If they were a direct comparison between the British Pound and the Kiwi $ I wouldn’t mind, but they aren’t. Your 50 pound loco in the UK will be around $150-200 here. Makes your channel a breath of fresh air! Keep up the good work!
WELL MADE POINT Sir! I've had that same rant for over 20 Years. I live in the "Colonies"... Here in the States, one Company, Horizon Hobby, Inc. has slowly been creating a Monopoly!! And nobody has said a word. They now have almost 80% of ALL Hobby Product Distribution in North America. And still nobody is alarmed. And when I say All... I mean ALL!! Model Railways, RC Cars, Trucks, Boats, Aircraft, Static Models in all Scales, Arts and Crafts, even Wargaming!!! 20 Years ago, i bought Athearn and Atlas Locomotives, for between $25 and $65, new, in Shops. Now, the cheapest Athearn Loco is $95, and the average is about $150! Atlas is even higher. As in your Market, nearly all Locos are equipped with DCC, whether you want it or not. Yes, details are better. Motor performance is loads better.... BUT, a lot of those are using the SAME or slightly Modified Chassis, and the SAME Plastic Bodies, made in China!!! They just have a few more holes drilled into them, and more add-on Details, most of those, Engineering Plastic. Does a new Motor and some added Plastic bits, REALLY justify the Quintupled Prices or HIGHER? Yes also, our Trains are cheaper than yours. But like you, I can't see where ALL the extra cost is coming from. Shouldn't the fact that nearly ALL of the Jobs in the US and UK were moved to China, Korea and all over Asia, have caused the cost to come DOWN, drastically?? Why did we all have to suffer? Your other point is also spot on! I'm 54, I have to Retire later, and the Pensioners are paying whatever the Companies feel like charging! WHAT happens when the rest of the Baby Boomers die off? Do the Corporations HAVE a contingency plan? Will Prices Miraculously FALL, because the "Money Train" gone, and they've squeezed everything they can out the Market?? Will they just close Shop, and start selling Phones?? I've been called Daft for many years. I predicted this as early as 1996! Reading your comments, I'm glad that more People are FINALLY aware of what's happening! Also, our two Countries used to represent the LARGEST share of Consumers AND Producers.... WHAT happened??
Sadly everything you say is so correct and well said, it shouldn't be that way. Nearly every other hobby has got cheaper except model railroads! The U.K. Hobby seems obsessed with the grey pound with no,plans fir ten years time when the current crop are all gone and the rest of us have no pensions
Indeed, I've been working with RC Crawlers, which USED to be more expensive than Trains.... but are now cheaper. I've got a fairly large Layout, that I practically can't afford to finish. I do have DCC. Because I chose to. I was lucky to have gotten into NCE's introductory offer of $129.95, 9 Years ago on the PowerCab. So glad I did!! DCC has gone through the roof now. I hunt EvilBay for bargains on Sound Decoders, because once I've experienced Sound in my Locos, I was HOOKED. I also enjoy the fact that I can have a friend over, and we can each run a Train, without all the bother of Block switches! I've cobbled together a decent system, at low cost. My friend has a similar system on his Layout, but his was over $1000 as a convenient "package deal". There's Bargains out there, but they require some serious hunting to find. Cheers, Carmine 💥⛽
I found some Bachmann wagons up my loft from about 10 years ago priced still on them at £5 brand new I looked up the same wagon now is at £15 second hand! I totally agree I have one Bachmann 37 with a rake of 4 coaches but all my stuff except this is old Lima stuff that if you look after it runs just as well as some of the new stuff.
I bought the majority of my models between 2000 and 2010, and a fiver was the going rate for wagons. A tender engine or diesel cost between £39 and £56 from the bargain pages, brand new. The most I ever paid was for an A1, £69. The "new" Hornby A4 with a rake of modern Gresley teaks was under a hundred quid. I appreciate it's a few years ago now and there's inflation, but few consumer leisure purchases can match model trains for price hikes. Of course people have no right to expect "cheap" new models, but the price rise has filtered through to second hand stock from the 1960s and 70s, which are being sold for more than the cost of modern locos now in the catalogues when they were launched just a few years ago. Hopefully this silliness gets people's imagination turning and they get back to modelling basics as shown on this channel.
Some well made points. I'm considering coming back into the hobby modelling 0-16.5, but I am thinking twice because I'm gobsmacked at the prices. My interest was re-kindled when I had a recent clear out and found some old OO9 stock that I sold on eBay to help fund another hobby. I thought I'd be lucky to get more than £100 for the 30+ year old locos and wagons, most of which had faults. I described them honestly and was amazed when I cleared £400 for them! That should have rung some warning bells as to new prices, because high new prices drive up 2nd hand prices. So am I coming back into the hobby? Still haven't decided. And the *only* reason I'm undecided is cost.
Brilliant video, and I agree with a lot of what you have said. I currently work for a plastic injection moulding company and I can tell you that a plastic product the same size as a 0-4-0 body shell costs about £2 a piece and each part only takes about 30 seconds to mould. these high prices have stopped me from buying a lot of locomotives I want (il be building a layout in the future once i own my own house but I enjoy collecting the locomotives for now), such as this year hornby are releasing an merchant navy class steam locomotive called “East Atlantic Company” in a beautiful BR blue but it costs £180 so I’m really put off from buying it. To think only 6 years ago I bought a premium Hornby LNER P2 brand new for £120, so I can already see costs going up to over £200 as standard in the next few years, it’s really not fair.
I totally agree with you. I live in Denmark where model railways is even more pricier than in the UK, and as a guy aged 22, and this high pricing of locos and wagons is resulting in me (and other Danes) thinking of leaving this hobby. An example from Denmark is Heljan's model of the DSB MX loco, which they are now making a fourth run of, and they are still selling them at a high price (2399 DKK or 289 pounds for the cheapest model and it is with both DCC and sounds) as the last couple runs. When I bought my model or it (third run), it was when a retailer had bought all of the unsold models from Heljan at slightly more than the manufacturing cost and then sold them at 875 DKK or 105 pounds for a base model (DC).
I would buy a Deltic for 50£, even if it's not the era i'm interested. I really like this video, i totally agree! Some coaches are just made of plastic and the prices are ridiculous. Even my father was shocked when hearing that the coaches and locos are not even metal, too expensive! (he remembers the old Marklin trains, which were metal) Living in Italy makes things a bit more expensive, so i always look for second hand like at Hatton's, which is where i go the most, or Ebay. I got plenty of locos and coaches there at half the prices or less!
Couldn't agree more. Also it should be said that the quality of the items has not improved as quickly as the price has risen. Recently bought a brand new Hornby set. quality of all the parts was well below par for the price. If you have a look inside the flagship DCC controller you will see the components are the cheapest on the market. That together with low quality plastic mouldings that where already worn inside the box really isn't good enough. I work in the electronics industry and have to say if I put out work of such low quality it would be returned. I was forced to open the the DCC controller up to fix the keypad straight out of the box brand new. Was very sad to see how shoddy the product was, Hornby isn't what it used to be. Clearly no quality control in their screw driver plants and no pride in the products. How else do they explain an expensive DCC controller getting past QC with keys not working ? Wouldn't happen where I work.
Can’t agree more with anything that is said throughout. I’m kicking the backside of 50, looking at this hobby to help my mental health after a stroke. Wish companies would see they’re missing a trick. Keep the good work and ideas going sirs loving these!!!.
Good luck with it. Model railways are very beneficial for mental health , I even made a video on this a little while back. Build cheap, buy second hand, build and run whatever you like and have fun!
I remember for years asking for a train set but we didn’t have any room in our old early 80’s semi d. Got one at 13 but because of school its taken me 4 years to actually have the time and motivation. Doing LCA course and doing the groundwork of masking and painting trackbed,relaying the track, wiring, ballasting with sheet for my practical achievement task. I have also gone into wristwatch collecting
just like in America, auto manufacturers are charging outrageous prices for autos/trucks..for instance, $72k for fully loaded ford truck..not many will buy because they don't have the money and do not have the jobs..and companies will end up like sears, penneys, and macys going broke or maybe go to a mexico for cheaper labor but will still have to pay higher import prices back into the US..everything is a chain reaction and model railroad is not different..common people will not buy because of the high price..
"$72k for fully loaded ford truck" Does it have to be fully loaded? I agree that prices are ridiculous to what you're getting but a $72k truck isn't exactly a mass-market model. At that price point you're starting to get into premium luxury and/or high-performance models. Besides, a Raptor is the _last_ thing you want for a work truck, the suspension is just too soft for hauling.
It’s basically the same here in the US especially with Lionel O gauge starter sets now costing anywhere between $175-$300 USD. My first starter set from them was $190 USD which was several years before Lionel added LionChief BlueTooth R/C technology in recent years. I do agree that this hobby is aimed towards the older/elderly demographic and less on kids. This is also why they make mostly 1950’s era buildings and trains more, but have some attention to modern era stuff. I just hope one day all of the world’s model train companies get to know the younger demographic better and start catering to them more since this isn’t the 50s anymore and the previous generations aren’t around any longer. This is also why the younger generations are mostly into gaming and apps more. I remember when Leokimvideo said that in a video he filmed at a model railway exhibition a year ago. He also explained about how train shows/exhibitions drive kids away from the hobby instead of towards it. I’m not sure if you saw that or not, but I just think kids who are interested in trains are going to spend more time on train simulators instead of building actual layouts. The train simulator downloable content can either be free or be payware which are far cheaper than actual models since I bought some myself. Once someone buys a simulator game, their virtual train collection would grow larger in less time than it would take for someone who collects actual model trains. I can see why the gaming industry is doing well when it comes to virtual trains.
My son Doug is always very popular when we exhibit because he is usually the only exhibitor under 50. The hobby esp in the UK is obsessed with the steam era which holds limited interest to younger modellers or even late entries like me who have no memory of steam, so I agree with you.
Used to always buy Model Stuff New. Prices Rose. Now I buy half my stuff Second Hand. Bought a brand new Bachmann coach the other day £39.99. A week later, at a model railway show, old Lima Class 20 Br Green, £35. Runs Great. What's that say about prices?
What a well thought out video. As said elsewhere I model in N Gauge for space reasons, and fined the costs somewhat expensive in today's market. When I started the models were very limited and basic, yet reasonably priced. If you acquired models on ebay you were buying from sellers that were selling dads old models, and you bid accordingly. Now ebay are mostly shops with there buy it now prices, I have even seen second hand priced as new. Even the swap meets are asking high prices for tat. I envisage a day when the model rail industry will price itself out of business unless it wakes up to reality. Keep up the good work guy's
Having worked in a model shop quite a few years ago, one thing to remember, its not perishable stock. That loco, carriage, or even tank kit, can sit on that shelf, at full retail price, and wait until someone buys at that price. The one I used to work at models shop in Sheffield (won't say which, but you may gather), I only worked for them a short while, but I remember repricing all the Hornby stock to updated RRP at the start of the new year. I also remember (they might not do this anyway more) was the Hornby new year clear out, where the sold the accessory/track stock at a further reduced price, but the savings weren't passed onto the customer. As you said, its dying hobby to many, especially in the world of smaller housing. The people able to buy the stock is the older generation, those younger, who are probably too young to remember real mainline steam will probably avoid getting into the hobby with the lack of space and funds. Yes, the starter sets are great value for money, they are designed to be. I have a starter set put aside I got for £30 from Asda after Christmas (I did hear it got reduced to £20 in some stores). How they are able to sell at that price is beyond me, when the controller is £33....PLUS £22 FOR THE PLUG! £55 total, and Asda can sell a set for £20-30 and still make a profit?!?! As others have said, some sellers can sell a different version of the same loco for half the price is very unusal Hornby has a tough time, and has made it tough for themselves. Overpriced loco's, loco's at the same price despite being the same model from decades ago, selling the same tired starter sets, selling the Thomas range at normal Hornby prices, unsure if they are selling a hobby or a toy. Scalextric suffers from other PoV's, they are toys but aimed at collectors "Yes, I want my rather expensive £30-40 highley detailed model car to fly off the table and break", so they end just being static display pieces, so you're spending money for an electric motor for something that'll never leave the case! They also suffer the Christmas bubble, you get some interest for the starter sets, but once its over, there's no follow up sales I've watched other hobbies become more focused towards the older generations. My father does amateur radio, and the cost of such items are both hard to justify to completely insane, and largely unneeded by those younger. However, like model railways, any image of a kid playing with equipment is jumped on "SEE! KIDS ARE ENJOYING THIS!" when in reality, they haven't a clue what they're doing and just enjoying the wurring sounds of their actions Games Workshop is also a place of "we like money, and you like our models, which will break first, our sales, or your wallet" style of selling. Yes, they have started the Warhammer Conquest magazine to get people either into, or back into the hobby. However they are limited to only 2 armies, and the seller of the mags are renowned for giving up after a while. But to actually get into the hobby is expensive, £35 for the corebook, or £95 for the starter set (their are cheaper ones, but they don't include the full rulebook), to get a reasonable army it can be at least £200-300, plus about £50 for the all the tools/paints it can be expensive to fit in to the crowd who have been collecting for years. Add in the shocking inconstant for "tabletop quality" of painting and its easy to shy away, when you try painting and you're left feeling down because you can't do anything like the amazing standard put before you Overall, I do hope that the prices do go down. Getting people into the hobby is vital, Games Workshop has done a fantastic job lately with a new CEO, where they've moved towards getting people into or back into the hobby. Alongside the "gateway" products, they've done lots of a mini games with nods to older games systems. Add in their masses of computer games releases, they've branched out. Hornby have tried getting kids into the hobby (The Junior range), but wheres the expansion? Where do you go from there? That set is aimed at a 4+yr old, how is that spark going to last the next few years when they can truly use the much more detailed loco's.
am an old train enthusiast myself, when I was part of train spotter club in the uk in my teens, I had an old hornby set long time ago, Rocky Mountain Express, came complete with layout already pre=assembled, good set, and looking at prices today, really do agree that prices shouldnt be so expensive for young ones coming into the hobby.....and for people like myself and older generation, that the cost of the sets and or locomotives and coaches, shouldn't be so expensive....I would like to start another set from scratch, but the cost, is one thing that is putting me off starting, Might just start with a set and totally familar with here in Australia....and start up from there, and most probably extend when I get the place of my own, but would have the sets in storage...until that day happens.
Be glad you don't have to pay to import them. As one of the few Americans who is into building British model railways, British products are so obscure that you have to pay extra to get them shipped overseas. Some even arrive broken through the mail and you have to go through the hassle of sending them back. After about five years and some 800 or so dollars later, only have 4 engines, some track, and a few bits of rolling stock. I've put them in a box in the attic because I can't even afford to build a layout now.
I occasionally run across very old Hornby for sale in the US with price stickers from US toy store chains. The prices the people want online are either too high for how old it is or the train is broken in some way. I'm not really into US outline stuff and even those are starting to get expensive. It would be better just to save my money and buy a real locomotive.
It cuts the other way as well. I wanted a kit by walthers, paid for it, paid a second time over for postagem then got hit by import duties and customs, on top of which I faced a 120 mile round trip to go collect it. I didnt bother!
I started off buying wagons and locos etc a few years before building a layout but nearly all my items were bought in sales or second hand or even damaged and they are euro trains made in the e.u the prices are quite expensive but the quality is very good. Some of the Hornby tooling is over 40 years old ... Hornby still sell some of these items today...it's just pure greed...
Same over here in the states. Prices have gone through the roof and beyond. Plus, the detail that is on the cars and locos now kind of take away from the fun of putting aftermarket detail parts on the models, and/or painting and decaling them.
I have only discovered your channel, and as a young person who is interested in model railways, I wholeheartedly agree with all of the points you express here. I personally have been very lucky as my father started me off with a really good set when I was five or six, with high fidelity items which weren't entirely suited for my age. He then went through a stage of buying old triang/lima/mainline locos and rolling stock on ebay (although the period/region accuracy was all over the place!), and bought all of the buildings I needed at an early stage. If all this hasn't happened, I think it would have been nigh on impossible for me to really get into the hobby later on. On my tiny layout in a garage, I have built up a modest collection of locos . However, it is very difficult to accumulate enough money to even buy a decent coaches from my very limited pocket money, let alone engines - most of mine are either one-off birthday/christmas presents, or purchases from ebay and the occasional train fair. But I would NEVER even contemplate buying direct from Hornby or Bachmann, at their crippling prices. To be fair to Hornby though, I am sadly not convinced there would be a significant market in the younger generation today, even if the prices were lower, without a transformative increase in awareness and a change in how the hobby is viewed. Moreover, the benefit of producing models in China can surely only decrease over time, especially as worker's wages and labour costs increase - although 3D printing etc. may partly offset this.
you hit the nail on the head here,it is overpriced,i saw an unpowered emu 4 car trailer unit at 300 pounds,looks great but far too expensive,i also remember when Hornby and co moved production to china,they said it was cheaper,but do believe one manufacturer, manufactures in wales,not much difference in price,you are not the only person complaining about this either.in peace.jpj
I seem to remember seeing somewhere Hornby's announcement that they were moving production to China and they said "we don't expect this to effect the price". I would've expected it to effect the price - downwards!!!!! I don't think that happened though. The manufacturer in Wales you are thinking of is Dapol, their rolling stock is reasonably priced in my opinion.
if i had children and wanted them to get into model railroading i would rather teach them to build models buildings tracks electronics etc themselves. it cuts costs and keeps them usefully occupied while they learn. because just running a train on a circle will make them bored quickly. rather go out into nature and collect stuff which you can use nicely on your layout. make buildings yourself from cardboard paint them weather them etc... for my first layout i used big matchboxes as tunnels on a table. i was very young and just happy to use all kinds if stuff which was not made for model trains to enhance it. :-) those were matchboxes with mountains printed on them. it was enough to get the mind of a young kid engaged for a while...
I agree with you too, well put. From the comments it's clear there are many who would spend more on new if the prices were reasonable and there would be better take up of the hobby which would be good for both manufacturers and their customers I.e us railway modellers. We all have a choice, to buy high or refuse and shop around for sensible prices and use second hand; that is exactly what I have done on getting back into the hobby in retirement. In my opinion voting with your feet plus as some are starting to do tell the manufacturers their customers have had enough and they are losing business as a result. Unfortunately some company pricing policies are to sell for as high as they can and not at a reasonable cost. There are many companies who work on single digit percentage overall profits, so a small change either way in gross sales can make a massive change in their fortunes. Let's hope they realise this for the better of the hobby, we are loyal to it please do not try and rip us off.
Excellent video. I'm 60 and myself and a friend considered starting a joint effort from scratch. We looked at prices and walked away. I also considered buying a set up for my grandson but it was just way too expensive. We bought him the child's battery kit that you showed, but won't be expanding on it. The only way is second hand but even then for decent stuff (and we all want it recent and in good condition), it's still silly money.
Sadly all good points. We bought most of our stuff second hand five years ago. Until recently second hand stuff has been OK price wise but now it too is going up and up, you can still get bargains but its hard work
I am from India and All I Could do is watch others participate In this Beautiful Hobby ;( Half of the things arent even available here let alone Locos !!! I wish The International Presence of these Companies Was a Bit Better and more Affordable .
I find it amazing that there is no demand or market for model railways in India, the potential market is huge, the big suppliers are seriously missing an opportunity
@@BudgetModelRailways Can You Help Me How to Get started in this hobby ? Please Make a Video on how International Hobbyists like us , Specially Adolescents like us can acquire the necessary things and sets to get started :) I also want to Spend Time with Trains and have a beautiful time with my family just like You and others have . Thank You .
I have a question : Is it me or have Hornby products got really cheap looking and seem really rather flimsy...As a kid I'm sure Hornby was way better made....
I agree with your views, even in 1991, when I was 20, Model Railways were still expensive, as back then I was planning to build a 3z6 foot n gauge model railway, the total cost would have been £850 for a fully working n gauge model railway without any scenery added. I am about to start a new model railway which will be £2200 for a 3x12 foot model railway, I will be able to budget £250 a month to the cost, but that might change once I have moved into a decent 2 bedroom flat, the costs are higher for gauge 1 Aster locomotives (£7000 for a RTR Flying Scotsmans Live Steam) and for 16mm scale, for a Roundhouse Engineering Live Steam Lady Anne, the cost is £1815.00 from one retailer, and other 16mm scale retailers have similar prices.
Growing up I was allowed to purchase a new rail car, or a new building (kits only, no premade) each year during December. We got the layout off of the garage wall and set it up each year right after Thanksgiving (end of November for those no familiar with the US holiday), and that weekend we'd go to the hobby store and look around. That was from 1988 to 2000. As an adult, looking at getting back into the hobby when my family and I get moved into our "new" house, my railroad spending will probably confuse most people. But seriously, I appreciate your comments on the hobby. In the US it seems to be aimed at the more skilled, but you still see the starter sets all of the time. As a Frisco enthusiast who grew up in the city that was their headquarters (I live in Springfield, Missouri, and the railroad line was purchased by Burlington Northern about 40 some odd years ago), the hardest stuff to find are the passenger cars, but you're vides have given the confidence enough to look into making my own cars if necessary.
I‘d suggest you to try out the german manufacturer PIKO. Sometimes they have very high quality stuff for an affordable price. In their stores they sometimes sell for example locos in a damaged box, so it’s 30€ cheaper but still brand new and functional ;)
Heres an example. The class 450 from bachmann is £300. It is just a class 350 without a pantograph. the class 350 from bachmann is 180-210 pounds (maybe more). You'd expect them to be a similar price becuase they are basically the same train..... anyways i get what you mean but its the way companies do things. Like it probably cost less then half the price of the iPhone 11 to make.
Very good video. I have seen Huge G scale sets going for £225 yet some single OO scale models are going for well over that. It's absolutely ridiculous because they're saying to you that you would get an ENTIRE train set in a larger scale for less than a OO gauge loco.
This is pretty much the main reason I stopped railway modelling years ago.
I can remember as a teenager in the early 2000s, being able to purchase a Hornby 14XX for £31.50. Okay the tooling was ex-Dapol and is now looking quite dated, but within a few years, locos of similar size were passing £40 at the cheapest retailers.
Now I'm indulged in filmmaking full-time, I'm unable to spare anything even on a budget. Only Rapido's recent announcement of a Titfield Thunderbolt train pack will encourage me to invest, but even that will have to result in a few sacrifices.
Thank you for covering this issue. Keep up the good work.
I agree where did this price hike come from.
how do these firms expect to get youngsters into this great hobby when the items are so expensive?
Exactly im 12 and im a trainspotter and I would like to have a train set but that price though!
@THECOMMENTMASTER 7 very good points well made, thanks
I would say the same I myself am a younger person who wants to be a modeller but cannot afford to buy more than two things per year
Sadly thats so true, even second hand is very pricey
I HAVE THE SAME FRICKING QUESTION! I JUST WANT TO HAVE SOME FUN! AND THEN THEY BLAME THE VIDEO GAMES FOR TAKING AWAY THE YOUNG AUDIENCE. WHEN WILL THEIR AUDACITY END!
When I was a kid my dad took my brother and I to the local train show every year outside of Seattle. It was maybe $5 for most pre owned cars, $20-30 for locos. I went to the train show this year for old times sake with my younger cousin after we hadn't gone for probably ten years, and for those same pre owned cars it was over $25-30 and each loco was at least $100. The cheapest I saw was a boring grey Sealand container, just one, for $20! It's sad because model railroading is a good hobby but the price is killing it.
For new kits though I think it's the same price as when I was younger. I've always been fascinated with Euro high speed rail and Kato's new TGV duplex set with ten cars is about $300. Really enjoy it but I wish it were easier to find new British and ICE sets.
As 3D printers get cheaper, I think we'll see more people using 3D printing technology to participate in the hobby on the cheap.
We have two 3D printers and have just launches a small range of 009 rolling stock and loco bodies with more models planned in. OO , HO and N, so you are right there
@@BudgetModelRailways American model trains are worse
I've already started 3D printing !!
Good luck with it
The model train Hobby was always very expensive. They push their product as a Christmas ,birthday high end gift. Its said the Hobby is dying ,and that's been so since the 1950s ! No wonder, people who do buy them, lose interest, as they can't afford the accessories. This is an absurd world wide of phenomenon. Wonderful Marklin , so high. Price so high ,you dont make a profit because you SELL less. They should have loss leaders ,and older molds to get people in . Or if the trains are high, the accessories should be cheap....plus build pre made platforms. So many, single mothers etc ,dont have the ability to go make one ....in this day & age absurd!
Totally agree, Im 28 and 90% of my layout and locos are second hand, I simply cant afford to buy brand new directly from hornby Its simply too expensive.
We have far too many locos! But all but two of them were bought second hand, most for approx £20/25, like you I simple couldn't afford that many locos new. Mind you second hand prices have shot up
Every year there is a model railway exhibition right next to my house and the vast majority of them were bought from there, I often buy broken ones and fix them to save money but even the broken ones are becoming expensive. :(
Try non runners
I agree with your opinion 100%, we live in a culture where we (the consumer) think more expensive means better quality. This is achieved by the retail market industry feeding us advertising and marketing to convince us of this. I've been in manufacturing for decades and know once R&D and the tools is complete, its all pure profit after that. Many of the model train tooling dies are probably years old, and have long ago made their money back for the R&D and tooling. Take it there is a collector market that these model train manufacturers may be appealing to, but that is a also an expendable money market too. The model train market can be an expanding market if the manufacturers keep prices in the range of the beholder. Good rant...BTW. lets see if this comes to fruition? Probably not.. I enjoy your channel and glad to see the your channel is gaining viewers. Keep up the great work. Skol! Ron//
I've noticed when I go into the local shops everyone, including myself, is at least 55 years old or older. And the one shop is really only interested in selling the most expensive models, so I almost never go there.
Exactly, take look at our other video on model railways and young people for more on the age topic
Interesting reading the comments, I have built model railways for over 50 years and the price was always eye watering. I am also a mould toolmaker who has had the pleasure of making tools for Hornby and some of comments about tooling are somewhat inaccurate especially when it comes to CAD, CNC and price ... I remember when calculators came out, as soon as everyone was able to afford one the sums set at school became far more difficult, OK if you had a calculator, a bit unfair if you couldn't afford one.
As with calculators CAD/CAM allows today's models to be far more detailed than yesteryear and to be honest the plastic parts are probably not that expensive, but putting them together and finishing them with high quality paintwork is expensive, modelers are very fussy and demand more, hence the price.
Many years ago I bought Thomas and Percy for my kids, the mouldings were simple, they were moulded in the colour to be used, very little fitting or painting involved, this reflected in their reasonable price.
To be fair to Hornby, I have seen the Lima based Deltic for sale at £60 new, whilst the Bachmann offering is twice the price, I have both and put next to each other the Bachmann version is far better. Hornby's railroad range using old or ex Lima moulds is a sensible way to help youngsters into the hobby. Prices are often half the premium version of the products and being less complicated tend to last well. The Bargain sections of most main online retailers offer some really good deals on new locomotives and rolling stock.
"Budget Model Railways" does a good job, showing inexpensive ways to enter the hobby, maybe linking up with Hattons, Kernow and other retailers to promote the best new bargains is a good way forward, there is no need to pay the often quoted prices of over £150 for a locomotive, £50 - £60 allows a reasonable choice. Model railway shows, Ebay, car boot sales and the second hand section of retailers offer a great choice for used rolling stock for as little as a fiver.
Model railway manufacturers are finding life tough at the moment, many have gone bust, it is only natural that they will try to capitalize on limited quantity high quality models, but please remember younger modelers are catered for by Hornby's Railroad range. There are plenty of card models for buildings available, modelling materials are not that expensive and PVA glue from a cheap store is as good as the expensive stuff.
When I started my first railway, the choice was Wren, Trix or Triang Hornby, I bought Triang Hornby because that is what my pocket money would stretch to, even though I really wanted the Wren version
Budget Model Railways are doing a great job showing that the hobby can be enjoyed on a limited budget, but we must remember we are not being fair to the industry by only quoting the price of top end models, after all my first car was a second hand Vauxhall Viva, because I couldn't afford a Jaguar XJS.
Keep up the good work "Budget Model Railways" and it would be nice to think the manufacturers read these comments, because there is a lot they could learn.
Hi and many thanks for such a full and informed comment, I appreciate you taking the effort. We probably agree on most points, I would just like to see more of the range released and at a slightly lower price. I still struggle to see how the four wheeler coach can be £17 given that the wagon on the same chassis is only £10, I suspect the cheaper models are being used to subsidise the high end ones. My main concern is that the hobby seems to be only catering for the richer older enthusiast, even the model press seems that way, but as you say we are doing our best to solve that. We know that many people have taken up the hobby from seeing our videos and our layout at exhibitions, just imagine what could happen if the press and suppliers tried the same instead of just preaching to the converted. Thanks again for your comment and support
Hi, I agree with you £17 is too expensive for the 4 wheeled coach, I've just looked on Hattons website where it is listed at £13.88p new. I have one left over from my kids Thomas the Tank engine days, It consists of 3 main mouldings (Chassis, Body, Roof), plus window mouldings, 2 axles with wheels and a coupling at each end. The body is painted with lining pad printed. There is more work in producing a carriage than a wagon that consists of just two main mouldings. The factory probably charges around £5 at the gate, there is import duty, shipping and VAT to be added, raising the price to around £8, then the shop marks it up by between 30 and 60% to cover the cost of premises, staff, NIC contribution, pension contribution etc giving a price in the shop of around £12, so £13.88 is not too far wide of the mark. As you can see there is a big difference in price between the factory and the shop, for which Hornby is not responsible.
The price could be reduced in a number of ways ... selling direct ... selling higher numbers or more competition between shops (Budget Model Railways could play a part here by advertising the shop offering the best deal)
I could not find it on the internet cheaper than Hattons, who also have lots of second hand ones for sale at around £7.
Even 50 or more years ago the railway modeler magazines were aimed at older people with a section for younger readers. Thomas the Tank has done more than anything else to bring the young into the hobby. It is time for the manufacturer to produce their own high quality children's videos featuring a new range of character engines in much the same way the Rev Awdry did with Thomas. Re-invention is the way to survive and prosper.
In the meantime BMR can and does play its part by advising where viewers can get the best bargains.
Timsvideochannel1 q
Timsvideochannel1 of
Hi Tim,, Excellent!! John
Absolutely agree. I'm 50, live in Australia and was looking to get back into the hobby - but the prices are outrageously high with a nasty markup even after the exchange rate conversation. The weather is fantastic here for garden railways, not to mention huge gardens but it's just too expensive - and I'm in a very well paid job.
Thank you for making this- I’m 14 and what I’ve found is that the saddest thing now is people accepting it or trying to ignore it which is what the likes of Hornby and Bachmann want us to do... upon starting a large Edinburgh Waverley plan and planning on building up stock, I’ve found myself getting more and more interested in kits. My question to Hornby is why did they move to China in the first place if they were going to charge considerably more? Great video, thanks
All good points. Hornby make track in China, Peco make identical track in the UK, they cost the same, so where are the savings? Have fun with your layout. We also have a video on young people and model railways which you might like
Budget Model Railways Thankyou!
GREED
It is probably due to increased shipping costs on the heavy loads of containers, and very prescise builds of modern stock that require a lot of money.
However, I agree some models are way too much money, such as 60 pound for a decent coach new.
My advice for scoping with this is to downscale you plans, to try and go as basic as possible, and to always consider the cheapest options first (a good method of keeping costs down is to go for used like new locos, or bargains at retailers, but to make sure you go for recent models, as they run better. Rolling stock is something I rarely get new, as the old stuff is way cheaper.
I can definitely relate, as a 15 year old who wanted to do a full great western mainline junction with 4 tracks in London, now doing a countryside mainline with no junction to accommodate the heavy trains I already got cheaply.
Hope I helped :)
If the prices were half, they would still be too expensive.
Definitely agree, cost is putting people off starting in the hobby - I always buy second hand now, locos for about £30 etc - something with some play value that doesn't really matter if it gets a bit damaged. But these new locos at £130+ is something I just cant justify buying at this time.
Seeing as PS4 and XBoxes are all about the same price now . . .its easy to see which one parents are more likely to go for.
When I had space for railways, I was always making stuff out of recycling as I just couldnt afford to buy model kits (some buildings are so expensive!)
Makes me cringe watching videos on TH-cam and who ever it is says "I bought this loco for £100, which i think is great value" what? Really? And then they go and get the DCC chip at £30 or what ever they are! It's unreal, yes some of the newest stuff is super detailed and run beautifully but as you say, surely they don't need to be that expensive. This is also another reason why I refuse to sell any of my railway models because when I eventually have the room to make a decent layout I'll have the stuff ready and waiting because no way would I buy brand new starter kits or locos/rolling stock!
Your right a rant is good 😂👍
Like you I can't believe that some people think £100+ for a loco is a bargain!
Well in some cases it is! Some brass loco's cost nearly £500 each
It's all relative - £100+ for a super-detailed locomotive that looks AMAZING and has DCC fitted is a great bargain. BUT, not everyone wants that. To bring people into the hobby, the basic stuff is perfect - and giving people options for those are definitely what is needed. For me, there's some mid-tier stuff, locos that would've been £150-200 five years ago that are now sneaking down below £100 - I am happy with those. If they were available as their own range, that'd be so useful. And the Railroad locos would sell like hot cakes if they were priced accurately - not only will beginners/newbies to the hobby buy things like the £30 Class 33, but others will buy them to use as kitbashing parts or a nice project to add detailing parts, weathering etc.
Exactly, it's not the high prices as such it's the lack of a cheaper option.
True, the problem is that not many people have £500 and the real issue is not high prices where it might be justified but the lack of a cheaper option to bring people in
I have come into the hobby late in life (Now 62). I found some old model train stuff in the loft and thought that I'd put together a small layout to amuse the nieces and nephews. The stuff I had was at least 45 to 50 years old. I laid it out onto a piece of board and found that there wasn't a complete circuit. Happily at the end of my road is a model shop so I bought the missing sections of track however I then found that the new track had a different profile the old stuff and there was a step from one to the other.
"Bugger better buy some more new track" I said. New track bought and circuit put together. Old loco's and rolling stock put on new track...."bugger the larger flanges on the wheels of the old rolling stock run along on the sleepers". Only one thing for it get new rolling stock.
Thanks to Ebay not all of it bought new, however 3 years later the layout has become a 6 by 12 foot baseboard concentrating on the BR blue diesel era with, at the last count 42 sets of points, a 4 way Gaugemaster analogue controller, 8 mainline diesels, 8 blue diesel shunters of various classes, 5 steam engines, 40 odd assorted goods wagons, 20 or so passenger coaches, a dozen or so Metcalfe buildings and various scenery purchases and I've spent in excess of £3000 !!! At least it does amuse the nieces and nephews.
The affect on my wife is a different matter.
Lol, you sound just like us, I darent add up what we hsvebeen spent!!
thank you for supporting the hobby !
Ouch some stuff will pay out over time. The controllers. But I would try buy and sells, toy fairs and scalescenes or doing them yourself
Could you sand down the flanges so they don't run against the sleepers?
You could and some people do but it's difficult to get right
I'd also like to point out that the capabilities of CNC mills and EDM machines designed specifically for tool making has really sped up and automated processes. For example the surface finish a high-end CNC mill can achieve makes the need for manual polishing obsolete or highly reduced. Electrodes for EDM can be machined overnight in batches autonomously and to a high degree of accuracy. It's one reason there are fewer tool makers than there used to be.
I teach machine trades on the college level. I have over 55 years in the trabe and teaching,( I started in 1968). There is only one reason why... greed. These train parts can be manufactured at , and sold for 90% of the cost now charged.
Thanks for the confirmation. The basic Hornby loco has gone up from £34 to £51 in two years using the same 30 year old moulds
As someone from a younger demographic (28 y/o), I look at these prices - for example, that train consist being north of £300 - and I just think, "christ, my car is worth less than that". And I instantly go back to cheaper hobbies.
Younger people have less money and less space. And, as pointed out, a lot of the lower end models are easily in the range of £5-15 in terms of a sensible retail cost (depending on the item) - but they're simply not going for it. It's bad business. They seem to be set in a way of doing things, and don't look at the possibility of opening up the market by charging less, but getting more, because more people are buying (which also gives you larger scales of economy).
A good example of counter-intuitive pricing being good is with PC games on Steam, where they make their most money during the twice annual sales - a time when games have huge discounts, anything from 30% to 90%. Although, coincidentally, I think the computerised train sim community suffers the same conservatively minded business model, too. They seem to overcharge for the sort of content other games can produce, even with the smaller potential market, which in my mind is definitely wasting the hobby's potential there, too.
Thanks Jo, some great points
You are absolutely right. Though the age issue is not limited to younger people, the pricing has stopped me taking the hobby up in my 30s,40s and now in my 50s. I had a setup when I was a child and have always wanted to do it again. As a keen modeller my young daughter also wanted us to set up a layout. But the prices are just insane and we never will at current prices. It's a shame and people with layouts are far rarer than when I was growing up as a result. I recall 2 of my teachers had model railways and about 5 of my mates did. Now I know only 1 person with one... which speaks volumes.
Well, I agree. :-)
I find it's cheaper to build model railways, than it is to buy the trains. I do love the modelling side above all else, but I still haven't bought any trains for some years now.
Hopefully the future will be different.
Sammy B Videography yeah, especially considering 3D printing is getting cheaper every year
I've tried to make 3d printed ho scale model trains before, I started really simple with some basic 4 wheel chassis, a "universal chassis" that I could attach various 3d printed bodies to, and after some experimentation, I discovered that the biggest issue is the wheels, it is really hard to print wheels that are reasonably round, and the axles are really fragile, that said it was just a M3d I got from a christmas sale, not some extremely proffesional rig. Higher end machines might have better results.
Have a look on ebay. I've purchased bags of wheel sets (up to 100) from China, for scratchbuilding and kitbashing models. Quite cheap and not much cost to post. All metal wheels, metal axles, fine scale treads and flanges too. There is the odd dud which is buckled. Goes on display on the scrap pile at the workshops. The only thing I wish would be mentioned in ads is the axle length.
Mate I hate to break it to you, but in the states it's getting just as obnoxious price wise. You are absolutely right about the hobby getting overpriced. I just bought a Bachmann N Scale set for my son and it set me back nearly 120 dollars US. The nearly identical set 10 years ago was 54 dollars US. I thinks it's honestly gouging and greed, the industry knows kids are flocking to the latest XBOX or Playstation and are making hobbies in general a "niche" market with prices to match. It's a damn shame because so many fathers, older men and kids love to hand down this hobby and it's being priced by shills and "limited production". That's my rant.
Couldn't agree more
I returned to the hobby last Christmas, after a 15-20 break.
I was stunned at the price increases, but then, it has been so long.
The last I remember paying, for something like a Hornby Scotsman was about £75, a Bachmann standard class 4 was about £50-60.
I was also into kit built locos, which I didn’t mind paying the extra for.
As a kid in the 70’s, I built a layout on pocket money.
There was far less available than there is today, and it was much more basic, because it was Triang, Hornby, HO Lima, and Airfix kits.
The bonus for me was, being able to use mail order catalogues, I remember buying an Iron Duke train set for about a £1 per week, the Mainline J72 train set was a break from the crude Hornby Triang stock, which looked beautiful back then, I’m sure it was £15 cash, or 70-80p per week.
Airfix kits, plus the new, at that time Airfix model Railways, I could buy from a local shop, they’d let me deposit money on a weekly basis, where I’d put my pocket money in weekly, for a model put on one side till I completed the full amount.
I can’t remember if a Jinty I bought was £5.00, or £7, although I do remember the Diesel dock shunter being about £3.00.
All good points thanks
"Nellie", "Polly" and "Connie" 0-4-0s once retailed at 33 shillings and sixpence. Basically regarding Hornby it is greed, there's no two ways about it!
6:40 and some of us are even younger! I'm almost always on the second hand market exept for Christmas and my birthday when I get new ones as a present
Been saying this for years! Absolutely correct in your statement. It's exactly the same for Plastic Model kits and Miniatures!
Thanks.The main difference is that there are some budget kits but no cheap model railways.
Not everyone has the money
Harley Davidson here in the states is going through the exact same thing. Their buyers keep getting older and older (for the same basic reasons) and while they are doing OK now they can already see the writimg on the wall. Harley is desperately marketing toward younger people now. Hopefully model rr companies will get the same clue at some point.
Harley Davidson has ran for years on the "outlaw biker" image and history of there bikes.
Since the 80's there been behind in tech in other bikes, often there keep stuck in the past by said history.
I abandoned the hobby back in 97 when I started high school. Not for a lack of desire, but cost. I'm into German model trains which living in the US was darn near impossible to get until buying on the internet became common. I would love to get back into the hobby with DCC, someday [sigh].
Absolutely agree, I'm 24, decided to start modeling at the beginning of the year after seeing my dad loving painting up all his buildings and running all his locos when I was a kid, but never realised how expensive it is! I don't get a lot of spare cash out or my wage and in about 7 months and with about £200vI've managed to buy myself a starter set and track pack D, it's annoying because I know I'm going to have to save another £110 for Track packs A, B & C just to simply get 2 ovals of track up and running. Nevermind the baseboards that are 10ft around my whole basement, If I keep on at this rate I might have layout by the time I'm 65! Really good channel here, really helping me out with buildings and scenery etc on the cheap, keep it coming guys! 👍👍
Thanks for watching. I would suggest having a look at second hand track etc, it can be a big saving
Portrait painting is also very expensive if you just buy the finished portrait instead of actually painting one yourself. Why don't train modellers actually scratch build models instead of buying the finished article? Surely this is the difference between railway modelling and playing with a trainset. What is the cost of scratch building a model train set vs buying off the shelf? That would be an interesting video! I've even seen a youtube video of people making a whole house layout entirely out of cardboard. Amazing how creative some modellers get when funds are limited. Money is no excuse, unless you're in some imaginary competition for model accuracy with people who just buy stuff from expensive professional model manufacturers.
"That's my son saying hello. He doesn't know I'm changing the locks when I'm 18"
1. Omg I'm dying lmao
2. Great vid
3. Should've changed them at 12
absolutely agree. not all of us have wages or pensions. it's just to expensive. then adults are wondering "why are young people not into the hobby these days?". I get 10 euros pocket money each week. How am I supposed to be able to buy a train that costs upwards of €100??? It's ridiculous
I couldn''t afford them on my pocket money as a kid in the 1960s either, not much has changed :(
you wait 10+ plus weeks?
@@pedanticmongrel Yes, but then there are other expenses that come with the hobby (obviously I'm not suggesting that everything should be free, but it's not cheap either)
My recent trip to the arts and craft shop:
2 sheets of mounting board -7 euros
Paint brushes- 5 euros
Brick paper - 7 euros
Plumbers hemp - 5 euros
Paint - 5 euros
Nearly 30 euros gone for some materials for scratch building projects. As I said, I'm not expecting things to be free, but I dont want to spend 10 weeks modelling nothing saving up for a train as I'd have no funds for anything else!
Anyway I feel that I'm complaining way too much here as this hobby is still very fun and rewarding!
@@jonathankelly7430 i get €10 each MONTH that makes it impossible for me to even buy a locomotive from märklin, i think all trains are overpriced. like €309 for ONE locomotive and €79 for ONE wagon. my dad dosn't let me buy anything over €50 so i just quitted with this hobby :(
Interesting video.......I model in n gauge,and if you look at some of the new prices of models,such as a dcc 2 6 4 Pacific up around £270 your eyes begin to water!!.....I spent all of my working life in retail, and sometimes a company like Hornsby,that specialises in a specific range/ line can find,as popularity declines, that to remain afloat,pay shareholders, introduce new lines and stock,that ,after reducing every cost they can( redundancies etc) the only way to survive is to push up prices until sales start to slow ,then the price remains at that level.........as to the China end totally agree....a pair of tourmaline earrings in 9 carat gold were sent ,free delivery, to me just before Christmas for £4.99!!.....keep up the good work!
I came into this hobby 3 years ago (I retire in a months time)I fancied doing a train layout for my own amusement. I looked in the window of our local shop and nearly had a heart attack at the prices. I binned the idea for some weeks and then I was delivering stuff to local charity shop and saw a Gt Western set for £15 along with another box of track and stuff for a £10. Bought it and my son sponsored my layout board and foam base. Thats how i got started, went on eBay and bought old buildings and accessories 2nd hand. Repainted all the engines and coaches to German colours and restencilled as DB German Federal Railways. My layout is an imaginery german town and I love it, It is now being redesigned incorporated a sawmill and some extra sidings. All. in DC because DCC is far too expensive and causes too much trouble
Sounds fantastic Thanks for supporting us
Very interesting, and I agree with much of what you say. My progress in the hobby has been very slow due to the cost. My son was getting into it but was put off by the cost as he doesn't want to spend all his pocket money on the hobby! You are right in your views. Would be good to get the manufacturers views on this
My son loves Hornby trains! Bought him the Thomas tank engine starter set for £60 and oval track! He loves it so he naturally looks to expand his collection! James the red loco alone costs £90. What a rip off, now hes upset because its out of our/his prize range, things need to change he's only 4 and is the next generation for model rail hobby. Sad times if we cant even afford the starter packs.
Exactly the issue, well said. You get a cheap set and then everything after that is a fortune. It's what happened to us , but we found second hand via eBay and shops like classic rail were the answer. But you should be able to do it new!
Sorry, what I meant was, prices should be low enough new that people can expand. I'm led to believe it's the lack of being able to expand it that did for the new red and white kids loco starter set, piles of them reduced everywhere. But if they could afford to tool that up and release it for £40 then something like James the red engine should be £40/50
Even back when I was young(ish), the Thomas stuff was too expensive. Had it been cheaper (which it should be, for a product aimed primarily at children / teenagers-with-aspergers-who-didn't-and-will-never-grow-out-of-Thomas-like-me), I'd probably have had more than just the Thomas set. I always wanted to have Edward because of his 4-4-0 configuration. Never happened.
One of the worst thing about living in Australia is how expensive model trains are
Same with România
I used to be a member of a model railway club,but left because I was starting to loose interest. I’m thinking about coming back to the hobby but the prices are just too high and can’t justify paying the price of the newer models.
Take a look at second hand and eBay , it's where we get all our track, locos and rolling stock
I can agree with pretty much all your rant :) I started with hornby sets that were bought by my parents for Christmas, later in life I moved onto 16mm:1" scale, four times larger than hornby and running in the garden, the staggering thing that you pointed out about the G Scale been nearly the same price as one loco and four coaches is that a live steam (not electric) loco can be bought from suppliers such as accucraft or roundhouse engineering for a little over £500 for an entry level loco into proper live steam running trains. What's more the track the locos run on been 32mm gauge in my case is around £90 for 12yards of track. For around the same length of hornby track your looking at £40 only half the price not a quarter as you would expect if price was proportionate to size.......and don't even get me started on N gauge lol.
My point is that there is a need for prices to reduce for OO to maintain been a hobby that entices people. I suspect and have seen over the last 5-10years the 16mm scale really becoming popular, and I expect that will continue, there are companies that supply coaches to 16mm scale size for £30-50 for a four wheel coach, a bogie coach been around £60-70. All food for thought. Not to.distract too much from OO or the work you two do making these videos, but you have a real valid point that really need to be addressed before the big players in the hobby bow out due to their customer base diminishing.
Wonderful analytical video. 8-) You're doing great work for promoting a healthier approach to the entire hobby. Keep up the good work !
As someone looking into getting into the hobby (but only slightly, I prefer home-made scenery/terrain, only need the rails, locos and some cars), I've always been dismayed at all the absurd prices. Even a decade and more ago, the situation was exactly the same, sadly. An acquaintance of mine even wrote a series of blog articles, at that time, on how he's become very passionate at promoting a home-brewn approach to the hobby, precisely because of all the constant overpricing. When even tiny accessories for typical H0 railways cost some 20-30 euros or pounds on average, and even the cheapest locomotives are barely under 50 euros or pounds, that's outright shameful. I don't mind overpriced high-end stuff for the details-obsessed pros, but not even starter kits have decent pricing these days.
ABSOLUTELY SPOT ON!!! I have been saying this for ages to any of friends who will listen, the cost is simply absurd, its putting me off getting into the hobby and I'm 26! Yes I have a 40 hour week in my job but they need to re-examine their pricing and as soon as possible, Hornby need to sort themselves out, the prices they expect for starter locos kit and everything is mental, very well explained video, you have yourself a new subscriber my good sir!
Thanks for your support
Great comments great vid ...the only thing I would say there are lot of people who actually buy at inflated prices... myself I try all avenues to buy stuff occasionally a new one ....yep I’m one of the oldies nearly 70 ....but came to hobby late and although retired still do not have a huge disposable income but you are right we need new blood in the hobby .....it was a good rant ....regards Fred
That's the problem , the price of any product is what people are prepared to pay, not its actual cost. All the time three are enough people prepared to pay high prices( just 500 on limited runs) then the prices will remain high.
Hi Fred,
I am an active 71 year old!! Take a look at my entry above, signed by John. Have fun, enjoy the hobby. John
The situation here in Australia is the same, with an even smaller market than the UK. There are a number of companies that produce Australian prototype locos and rolling stock in small limited batches in factories in China. The locos start at about AU$280 for a small diesel and wagons go for about AU$260 for a pack of six four wheel wagons as an example. Bear in mind theses models are very high quality with a lot of detail, but the up front cost is not insignificant. Based on the cost I would say this compares well with the UK examples you give.
UK, US, Japanese and European models are more expensive in local retailers compared to what you can buy for online. The second hand market is crazy here, with inflated pricing for low quality items that people still seem to buy (especially eBay!). Model railway exhibitions have second hand stalls that are popular and sell out of any good items early. Watching your videos I am always envious of the prices you buy second hand items for.
I'm Australian in the 50+ age group, it was always an expensive hobby here. I think that what has changed is people's expectations as to how well a locomotive should run, thanks to TH-cam. Thus entry level locomotives by Hornby may look pretty, but are terrible to control (I'm looking at you Mr Pug and your 0-4-0 mates). This is ridiculous in 2017. Then you find that your upgrade locomotives are a hit and miss affair, and each miss being a $$$$ loss, and frustration. Sorry, i'm not in the hobby to increase frustration. One gets wary and keeps one's wallet in one's pocket.
Where I think Rovex/Triang/Hornby shot themselves in the foot was not switching to HO. I understand they were unable to make their motors small enough to fit the smaller scale, but when that was no longer an issue, they should have swapped. Their production market is now curtailed to us British outline modlers, they have a limited, finite and dwindling world wide market.
And since i'm on a rant, the price of rolling stock is prohibitive (flabbergastingly, eye wateringly, extortionate) But I guess this is the steady income stream that keeps the manufacturers afloat whilst they wait for the large bubbles of income that arise each time a new expensive tooling of locomotives hits the shelves. I wonder if going back to good basics would sustain the hobby, or if that simpler take on the hobby is a thing of a simpler past. Maybe my basics are too basic for tomorrow's modeler.
Too many board execs and not enough enthusiasts at the control panel. They are neglecting to bring to market fun.
Check out "Sort of Interesting Trains" on TH-cam for his video "you spent how much" Makes me sad. Fun guy btw :)
Both Lima and Jouef and one other tried HO outline and none of them could make it work
I'm late to the table here but better late than never right.
I've just recently been able to bring out of storage a Lima set my grandfather gave me when I was 5 (I'm early 40's).
Here in Australia it's a ridiculous priced hobby to be considering.
Surely they can re-release some models using old tooling at a cheaper price than the newer models, further more having big runs of a single model make it cheaper per piece, more people able to afford an item can increase the fan base, pick a couple models to start and they'll know if it works. Even I've seen the increase in 'limited runs' being used more and more to control the price versus effort/outlay, and certainly not just this hobby.
The costs involved have me looking at well used second hand and how much I can make/repair myself with everyday items, this will give the manufacturers virtually no income from me, and everyone else in my shoes.
Surely some of them see this happening.
I think part of the problem is that not as many kids want to get into the hobby anyway nowadays, meaning that they need to make higher prices in order to make the same amount of money as they did years ago.
I agree with everything stated here. I've been banging on about this for ages. My son loved the usual push along plastic Thomas trains etc. When he wanted to 'upgrade' to a real electric trainset, we bought a Hornby Percy electric set. We were very disappointed. Very cheap plastic and no where near child friendly. Bits broke easily (even putting the track together) and my son soon lost interest, as did I. At his age, I was asking for railway accessories for Christmas and Birthdays and building my layout! Unfortunately, my son quickly moved on to a different hobby all together.
As you say, catering for the older generation is not a sensible long term proposition. Very sad.
Its shooting yourself in the foot
Insane prices, I find train videos relaxing, but I don't want one, I'm just here watching yours and other channels for the dioramas! Hornby are cheeky effers! Perhaps if they were very cheap I would get one tbf, but I've always been aware of the prices in the back of my mind after being into dollhouse minatures years ago! Lol I'm a 25 year old female hahaha I am the opposite demographic XD
We have a diorama video coming up, and a street scene being made in my layout. It's a great hobby if you do it with second hand items
Will you marry me? ;))
Some Chinese manufacturer will probably see an opening and jump in. They could end up owning Hornby.
Crow T. Robot can someone tell them to hurry?
Lol, mind you I would place an evens bet that prices wouldn't come down. The hobby is aimed only at the high end big spender with no long term plan to expand the hobby by encouraging newer,younger less affluent people into the hobby.
I thinkit'd take an insanely rich person who realizes that working class people want into the hobby but feel the prices are a middle finger.
@@iron1349 - MOST insanely rich people are disconnected from the working class and the budget available to them. So I doubt this will happen
@@dibley1973 i gues sthis is a good summation of my political views
You are correct about everything you said here. In 1969 when I first started collecting "N" Scale trains, you could get an engine for about $10.00 and a freight car costs about $2.00. TODAY, an engine costs about $150.00 and any kind of "reasonable" freight car costs about $20 or $30 or $40.00 and up!
As you pointed out, they are all made in China and they probably costs no more than a dollar or two to make. It is a big rip off.
Just wanted to point out that here in the states, it is the same thing. Train cars are very expensive.
Also, those fancy German plastic building kits are extremely expensive. An average building kit costs about $50.00 (for a small one) to over $175.00 for something bigger. Recently, I noticed a building kit for a European style Monastery building kit. It is a very large kit and I was curious as to what it costs. I found it and the price was almost $500.00 for it! I had no intention of buying it anyway but was curious as to what it cost.
I find that just about every single time I see a kit, it costs about $50.00 or $100.00 per kit but if I scratch build it myself, MY cost is about $5.00 or so. The hobby is getting outrageously expensive.
-Regards, Ron
Coming from an overseas South American modeler where anything and everything MUST be imported, I´ve known nothing but clear disadvantages of dedicating myself to this hobby. I walked into it for the first time when I lived in the US back during my teens and reassumed the hobby in 2011. Since reassuming, I had to buy everything from scratch. The local model hobby stores didn´t know a single thing about DCC, (which was the way I prefered to go this time). Only through some very small and limited retailers could I get my hands on such things locally, the rest was just importation (and the fees that come with it). Track, rolling stock and scenery was relatively easy to come by in the stores but accessibility didn´t necessarily translate to inesxpensive. Then it hit me to go check the youtube and the MRR channels and boy was I in for a treat! My most important overseas purchase (to me at least) would definitely be the precision tools (of which I purchased a very large selection through Micro Mark). These represent my possibility to tackle this hobby fairly on my own. In the end , places like the US and UK (to mention a few) do have a very strong MRR industry and that is shown through the travelling expos and shows, not to mention the countless MRR associations (many usually close to peoples homes where they can sort out all kinds of doubts and issues with fellow members in no time). Luxury i can't afford in these latitudes because of lack of such associations. I believe that 3D printing has come for many modelers as a real solution to their problems and certain prototypical etching that just can't be bought through the established market. New techniques of modeling shared unselfishly through extensive and dedicated youtube tutorials paved the way instead of having to buy specific MRR magazines in the past that might not have even addressed the issue or solved ones specific problem that today is solved by posting a message to the generous youtube modeler in his channel (and receiving a reply!). Bottom line, costs are relative to the effort we (as a group are willing to pay) and in exchange go about the extra mile as to come up with convincing and innovative solutions that are downright inexpensive, ingenious and can help make you build prototypical representations regardless of your geographic location. In my case all my purchased scenery kits do need a certain degree of kitbashing, not to mention that all need new signs because they all come in English. I believe we are in an era as to not sacrifice our hard earned money on the thing we can model for ourselves convincingly and purchase those we simply can´t. My two cents.....
Is this a high school essay
Hoping people obtain a little more insight regarding others experience rather than addressing the length, style, grammar, etc. It’s sad that people will still criticize ANY aspect of a post and not the content.
Nearly three years late to the game here, but since lockdown and getting back into the model trains I've come across your channel and it is genius. Scatter on a corduroy swatch for a veg patch, roofing felt for ballast, black sandpaper and strips of a white sticky label for road. We sold off the large majority of our locos, rolling stock, and buildings two years ago, it had just been sitting boxed away for a few years before that, and kept what is still a good amount for when the nephews/grandkids are old enough. As I've said to my Dad many times in the last two or three months, you really wouldn't want to be starting out or getting into trains in 2020 with the price of it these days.
Glad we could help. New prices especially for buildings and infrastructure are silly and second hand especially locos is not much better
I agree. I've recently got back into the hobby in my early 40's and if it wasn't for ebay and hunting around for ex-collector stock I would't have bothered. I don't understand why Hornby and the rest are so expensive, they are shooting themselves in the foot really. I never buy from a Hornby shop, the prices are ridiculous.
Absolutely agree with this, I feel the cost will scare people off. I'm holding on to the 00 models I have for when I *hopefully* have enough room, for the moment I've moved on to the digital side of the hobby and Train Simulator it's cheaper in comparison to models but you loose the physical aspect - until my pockets get deeper though i'll be concentrating on my screen tan :)
A well presented fair and informative video. My dear wife bought me a train set for Xmas which really was a pleasant surprise. The next suprise though was not at all. I really was staggered at the prices of additional trains and carriages and this will now limit how far I go with the hobby. I am learning how to go cheaper and see that buying brand new will be a very limited option. Thanks for the video really well explained.
This vid was obviously made 4 years ago, but I wish Birdcage coaches were £30 now! They are currently £76 on Model Railways Direct website!
You're so right about this! as a teen living in italy ive tried starting a model railway a few times, but i always gave up because of how expensive it is. The starter sets 0-4-0s are literally 50 POUNDS now, isnt that just crazy?!
Very interesting video. I agree prices are steep. The Demographic is mainly for the retired on good pension. Myself came back to the hobby at early 40’s on an average wage with a family. Now at 52 still love the hobby today. You have a strong argument here. Over the last few years see prices ramp up. I understand much of it is manufacturing costs? I am sure many younger people would love to get into the hobby? It will be interesting to see what happens when the larger older demographic pass on in kinder terms. How will the manufactures deal with this?
I'm not convinced its manufacturing costs, given the cost of items from China. The price of a product is what the customer will pay, not what it cost to make. A DCC chip can't cost £80, yet that's what it adds to the price of a loco, you are paying for the features not the cost of making it.
From what I understand? China have demanded higher wages in the last few years. Also import chargers. Hence the price hike. I am sure there is a large profit margin for the manufacturers saying that? To themit is a “ Business”. Apparently according to Bachmann? If a OO gauge guards van was made in the UK you would be looking to pay over £40+! The problem here is that wages have not gone up in line. A political hot potato at the moment.
Wage prices have gone up in China due to a shortage of skilled workers, but not as much as the prices have risen in the UK. There is no way the four wheel coach can cost £17.
What do you think the answer is? What I don’t want to see at all with this is the hobby going over to just the rich and wealthy only. This hobby should be for all people.
Just gathered by your videos you must be local? Eastbourne area?
After your unfortunate 3 in 1 and WD40 utube, I have to say I totally agree with you on this one. I think all your arguments hold water and are clearly and well made. I am utterly amazed that nobody has tried to capitalise any more than they seem to have, on what must be a good market out there. My children had model trains and now my grand children are ready for them. Every year I go to the Warley annual show and it is absolutely crowded out for two days. Never mind all the individuals and clubs all over the UK and abroad, the attendance at the Warley show would in itself keep the industry in mink coats.
But a message to Bachmann, Hornby, et al, although I can afford it, I don't buy anything unless it is on offer or is second hand. Precisely for the reasons concerning the lack of fairness to others who should be encouraged to take up the hobby, but also because it simply smacks of taking the piss!
Hi Tom , thanks for your comment, you might also enjoy a similar video we did on the future of model railways
I use ebay if you wait and look for bargains you can cut down in costs also i bought an mpv recently for £60 and it costs around £100-140
Patience is the key with ebay
This is bang on. I live in western Canada, not close to a hobby shop and not close to the border with the U.S.A. No weekend shopping trips for me. Typically, I see what I would call "not quite junk" class N-scale locomotives, in either the classic EMD F9 or an early GP series, with plastic bodies, mostly plastic frames, little to no detailing, garbage paintwork, etc. starting at $150 plus postage. For something decent, like Kato, tack on as much again - more if you want a more "up-to-date" locomotive. This is _before_ adding a DCC control chip, or sound chip and speaker - very costly unless obtained from China. For freight cars, tank cars, gondolas, - all the standard freight rolling stock, even poor examples are around $45-$50 (All plastic) by the time postage is added. I'm sure this deters a lot of young people who might be interested; it has certainly deterred me, a senior retired on a small fixed income.
In 1967, when N-scale was very new in Canada, I received an N-scale train set for Christmas, and over the next 4 years gradually built a layout and acquired about 20 pieces of rolling stock, plus the original "road" locomotive - an EMD F9. It ran OK, but there was just one. I couldn't afford "kit" buildings - almost everything was card stock and disposable chopsticks, plus some "chidren's craft paint." I was able to get 1 yard lengths of flex-track for expanding the layout, but I had very few turnouts. I doubt I could do something similar today for under about $700, unless I had a very good "in" with a club in a town not too far away.
I took one look recently at the DCC systems currently offered commercially, and I'm appalled. The technology - much of it - is over 30 years old. Using the modular electronics available today, it would not be hard to scratch-build a full control system for a fraction of what even a DC throttle pack goes for. There are open-source electronics and control systems that have been developed recently, and I think we'll see a lot more of those.
But if a kid is really broke, and not savvy with electronics, he might do something I've seen being done in India: buy a very cheap radio controlled model car with transmitter for under $5 (don't know what that is in Rupees), then strip out the radio control and motor. Scratch build a locomotive body, frame, wheels and trucks using cardboard, foamboard and bits of metal from beverage cans. Add a 9V battery & you've got a radio-controlled battery powered train set. There are videos of some of these on TH-cam. It's amazing what can be done with cardboard, glue, and imagination.
A lot of the pricing I see here for rolling stock simply does not make sense, for the reasons you've laid out. Perhaps in the U.S.,A., where there are many more people, the economics are better. But even at that, for a 10-14 year-old child to build up a layout is not cheap.
I agree with you 100%. I am now addicted to the hobby, especially the model building side of it, and would never have believed it was so expensive.
You are absolutely right. I used to do model trains with my dad and whilst he funded it it was fine, I moved out got my own job etc but can't imagine starting out on my own for my own models and trains, I just don't have the disposable income!
That's what a lot of people are telling us, especially your age group which in My view is the market they should be aiming at. Mind you take a look at second hand it brings the prices right down.
Here in my Country, One Express locomotive with 2 coaches and rails, cost what some people expends in one month in food!
When Irv Athearn first started producing his ho scale f7, the price was $7.00 usd. Car kits were priced at $2.50 and $3.50 usd. well into the 1960's. The prices today are insane and the product isn't 3ven produced domestically.
But in 60's I earned maybe $2/hr two years ago when I retired $42/hr so that engine at 3 1/2 hrs wage $100 + and not great quality compared to today, all relative
In the UK wages have not gone up for ten years yet prices have gone up 20%+ , I'm earning exactly the same as I did in 2007 yet everything I buy has gone up, some model railway items have gone up nearly 40% in that time.
Totally agree with ALL your comments in the video. People have commented here that ebay is a cheap way of getting into the hobby- I would have agreed 6 years ago (when I first got into the hobby) but not now! What new people to the hobby don't seem to realise is that they are artificially forcing the prices up- not just on ebay. I bought a Pullman Observation Coach in 'like new' condition for £38 only 3 years ago on there, I've just seen one sell for £91!!! I do believe that people bid stupidly and if they held back and 'await the next one' prices will fall back to what they once were. The reason I said ‘not just on ebay’ is that people seem to forget that ebay is available to everyone 24/7 and when I attended a local Model Rail Exhibition recently the prices had gone through the roof there too- a seller behind a stall said “that’s what they’re goin for on ebay- so I match the price!” (FYI- Model Fairs used to offer discounted products at ‘trade stalls’). Hornby are also watching ebay (of course) and are responding by re-releasing those popular items at an inflated cost- doh! "Supply and demand" as they say.
Just returned from an exhibition and as you say some of the traders were in cloud cuckoo land, second hand fir almost the same as new!
You raise some valid points about the cost of new model railway equipment and the detrimental effect it must be having attracting new younger people into the hobby. I'd like to add a point about buying second hand, especially on auction sites - this has become expensive too, as prices have become inflated by "collectors" who are mostly older people, usually men, who collect not because second-hand plastic toys really have any intrinsic collectable value but because they remind them, nostalgically, of their childhood (this is certainly the case for me). But what us older enthusiasts tend to forget is that as our generation diminishes and eventually disappears, the market for second-hand plastic trains will also diminish and prices will hopefully return to a more realistic level because there will be fewer nostalgic, relatively wealthy retired old men to pay inflated prices for them.
This is so true. In Australia it costs like $500 for a decent track, 2 locos and a bit of scenery.
hi duty rates ? countries that dont manufacture keep high rates to protect their factories.
Ye probably
I have a similar problem, albeit not with train sets. I'm into Tamiya Mini 4wd. Depending on where you shop, the cars can cost between £5-10 and again for upgrade parts any where other than direct from japan can be upto double the cost. But that's not the big problem. The issue is the track cost, sure you can always build your own if you have both the skills and tools, but to get an entry track (simple 2 lane oval) can cost around £150-£200 whilst the same simple oval 3 lane can cost around £350-£450. Extra track sections can cost anywhere between £100-£250. This is factoring in the shipping and import/customs/tax. In japan and america, they retail at about £150 for the 3 lane, £50 for the 2 lane. We have over the top costs for everything, it's hard to get into any kind of hobby other than gaming (pc/console) without stupidly excessive costs. I miss living over seas down in SE Asia.
I have a saying "The UK is where 'fun' comes to die.".
I might use that !
I’m lucky to have second hand shop near me and if I go to hamleys and I think out what I’ll buy and my budget and even though I know they are expensive I come out with not even half I thought I’d get
I’ve seen in old model produced in England still being produced somehow move from 50 to 270, HOW!
I’m an early teen and most other people are old and I go to hamleys and feel out of place because I’m younger yet more privileged
You’ll hate the prices of models here in NZ. If they were a direct comparison between the British Pound and the Kiwi $ I wouldn’t mind, but they aren’t. Your 50 pound loco in the UK will be around $150-200 here. Makes your channel a breath of fresh air! Keep up the good work!
WELL MADE POINT Sir! I've had that same rant for over 20 Years.
I live in the "Colonies"... Here in the States, one Company, Horizon Hobby, Inc. has slowly been creating a Monopoly!! And nobody has said a word. They now have almost 80% of ALL Hobby Product Distribution in North America. And still nobody is alarmed.
And when I say All... I mean ALL!! Model Railways, RC Cars, Trucks, Boats, Aircraft, Static Models in all Scales, Arts and Crafts, even Wargaming!!!
20 Years ago, i bought Athearn and Atlas Locomotives, for between $25 and $65, new, in Shops. Now, the cheapest Athearn Loco is $95, and the average is about $150! Atlas is even higher. As in your Market, nearly all Locos are equipped with DCC, whether you want it or not.
Yes, details are better. Motor performance is loads better.... BUT, a lot of those are using the SAME or slightly Modified Chassis, and the SAME Plastic Bodies, made in China!!! They just have a few more holes drilled into them, and more add-on Details, most of those, Engineering Plastic.
Does a new Motor and some added Plastic bits, REALLY justify the Quintupled Prices or HIGHER? Yes also, our Trains are cheaper than yours. But like you, I can't see where ALL the extra cost is coming from.
Shouldn't the fact that nearly ALL of the Jobs in the US and UK were moved to China, Korea and all over Asia, have caused the cost to come DOWN, drastically??
Why did we all have to suffer?
Your other point is also spot on! I'm 54, I have to Retire later, and the Pensioners are paying whatever the Companies feel like charging! WHAT happens when the rest of the Baby Boomers die off? Do the Corporations HAVE a contingency plan? Will Prices Miraculously FALL, because the "Money Train" gone, and they've squeezed everything they can out the Market??
Will they just close Shop, and start selling Phones??
I've been called Daft for many years. I predicted this as early as 1996! Reading your comments, I'm glad that more People are FINALLY aware of what's happening!
Also, our two Countries used to represent the LARGEST share of Consumers AND Producers....
WHAT happened??
Sadly everything you say is so correct and well said, it shouldn't be that way. Nearly every other hobby has got cheaper except model railroads! The U.K. Hobby seems obsessed with the grey pound with no,plans fir ten years time when the current crop are all gone and the rest of us have no pensions
Indeed, I've been working with RC Crawlers, which USED to be more expensive than Trains.... but are now cheaper.
I've got a fairly large Layout, that I practically can't afford to finish. I do have DCC. Because I chose to. I was lucky to have gotten into NCE's introductory offer of $129.95, 9 Years ago on the PowerCab. So glad I did!! DCC has gone through the roof now.
I hunt EvilBay for bargains on Sound Decoders, because once I've experienced Sound in my Locos, I was HOOKED. I also enjoy the fact that I can have a friend over, and we can each run a Train, without all the bother of Block switches!
I've cobbled together a decent system, at low cost. My friend has a similar system on his Layout, but his was over $1000 as a convenient "package deal".
There's Bargains out there, but they require some serious hunting to find.
Cheers, Carmine 💥⛽
I found some Bachmann wagons up my loft from about 10 years ago priced still on them at £5 brand new I looked up the same wagon now is at £15 second hand! I totally agree I have one Bachmann 37 with a rake of 4 coaches but all my stuff except this is old Lima stuff that if you look after it runs just as well as some of the new stuff.
I bought the majority of my models between 2000 and 2010, and a fiver was the going rate for wagons. A tender engine or diesel cost between £39 and £56 from the bargain pages, brand new. The most I ever paid was for an A1, £69. The "new" Hornby A4 with a rake of modern Gresley teaks was under a hundred quid. I appreciate it's a few years ago now and there's inflation, but few consumer leisure purchases can match model trains for price hikes.
Of course people have no right to expect "cheap" new models, but the price rise has filtered through to second hand stock from the 1960s and 70s, which are being sold for more than the cost of modern locos now in the catalogues when they were launched just a few years ago. Hopefully this silliness gets people's imagination turning and they get back to modelling basics as shown on this channel.
Thanks so much for your suppory
Some well made points.
I'm considering coming back into the hobby modelling 0-16.5, but I am thinking twice because I'm gobsmacked at the prices.
My interest was re-kindled when I had a recent clear out and found some old OO9 stock that I sold on eBay to help fund another hobby. I thought I'd be lucky to get more than £100 for the 30+ year old locos and wagons, most of which had faults. I described them honestly and was amazed when I cleared £400 for them! That should have rung some warning bells as to new prices, because high new prices drive up 2nd hand prices.
So am I coming back into the hobby? Still haven't decided. And the *only* reason I'm undecided is cost.
Mehano is much cheaper ......
Great that you talk about this.lets hope the word reaches the right ears
Brilliant video, and I agree with a lot of what you have said. I currently work for a plastic injection moulding company and I can tell you that a plastic product the same size as a 0-4-0 body shell costs about £2 a piece and each part only takes about 30 seconds to mould. these high prices have stopped me from buying a lot of locomotives I want (il be building a layout in the future once i own my own house but I enjoy collecting the locomotives for now), such as this year hornby are releasing an merchant navy class steam locomotive called “East Atlantic Company” in a beautiful BR blue but it costs £180 so I’m really put off from buying it. To think only 6 years ago I bought a premium Hornby LNER P2 brand new for £120, so I can already see costs going up to over £200 as standard in the next few years, it’s really not fair.
Hornby will sell you the 0-4-0 motorized chassis for £12 which means you are paying £20 for the plastic body, madness!
I totally agree with you. I live in Denmark where model railways is even more pricier than in the UK, and as a guy aged 22, and this high pricing of locos and wagons is resulting in me (and other Danes) thinking of leaving this hobby. An example from Denmark is Heljan's model of the DSB MX loco, which they are now making a fourth run of, and they are still selling them at a high price (2399 DKK or 289 pounds for the cheapest model and it is with both DCC and sounds) as the last couple runs. When I bought my model or it (third run), it was when a retailer had bought all of the unsold models from Heljan at slightly more than the manufacturing cost and then sold them at 875 DKK or 105 pounds for a base model (DC).
Sadly it seems the same the world over
I would buy a Deltic for 50£, even if it's not the era i'm interested.
I really like this video, i totally agree! Some coaches are just made of plastic and the prices are ridiculous. Even my father was shocked when hearing that the coaches and locos are not even metal, too expensive! (he remembers the old Marklin trains, which were metal)
Living in Italy makes things a bit more expensive, so i always look for second hand like at Hatton's, which is where i go the most, or Ebay. I got plenty of locos and coaches there at half the prices or less!
Couldn't agree more. Also it should be said that the quality of the items has not improved as quickly as the price has risen. Recently bought a brand new Hornby set. quality of all the parts was well below par for the price. If you have a look inside the flagship DCC controller you will see the components are the cheapest on the market. That together with low quality plastic mouldings that where already worn inside the box really isn't good enough. I work in the electronics industry and have to say if I put out work of such low quality it would be returned. I was forced to open the the DCC controller up to fix the keypad straight out of the box brand new. Was very sad to see how shoddy the product was, Hornby isn't what it used to be. Clearly no quality control in their screw driver plants and no pride in the products. How else do they explain an expensive DCC controller getting past QC with keys not working ? Wouldn't happen where I work.
Thanks for the insight. Their basic DC controller is a pile of crap compared to the older ones, and yet it's £20+!!
This the reason why we only see old mans with big layouts! You need more than 10 years to buy everything for your dream layout!
I won't live that long . . .
@@jimbaritone6429 retirement fund lol
Can’t agree more with anything that is said throughout. I’m kicking the backside of 50, looking at this hobby to help my mental health after a stroke. Wish companies would see they’re missing a trick. Keep the good work and ideas going sirs loving these!!!.
Good luck with it. Model railways are very beneficial for mental health , I even made a video on this a little while back. Build cheap, buy second hand, build and run whatever you like and have fun!
I remember for years asking for a train set but we didn’t have any room in our old early 80’s semi d. Got one at 13 but because of school its taken me 4 years to actually have the time and motivation. Doing LCA course and doing the groundwork of masking and painting trackbed,relaying the track, wiring, ballasting with sheet for my practical achievement task. I have also gone into wristwatch collecting
just like in America, auto manufacturers are charging outrageous prices for autos/trucks..for instance, $72k for fully loaded ford truck..not many will buy because they don't have the money and do not have the jobs..and companies will end up like sears, penneys, and macys going broke or maybe go to a mexico for cheaper labor but will still have to pay higher import prices back into the US..everything is a chain reaction and model railroad is not different..common people will not buy because of the high price..
"$72k for fully loaded ford truck"
Does it have to be fully loaded? I agree that prices are ridiculous to what you're getting but a $72k truck isn't exactly a mass-market model. At that price point you're starting to get into premium luxury and/or high-performance models. Besides, a Raptor is the _last_ thing you want for a work truck, the suspension is just too soft for hauling.
It’s basically the same here in the US especially with Lionel O gauge starter sets now costing anywhere between $175-$300 USD. My first starter set from them was $190 USD which was several years before Lionel added LionChief BlueTooth R/C technology in recent years. I do agree that this hobby is aimed towards the older/elderly demographic and less on kids. This is also why they make mostly 1950’s era buildings and trains more, but have some attention to modern era stuff. I just hope one day all of the world’s model train companies get to know the younger demographic better and start catering to them more since this isn’t the 50s anymore and the previous generations aren’t around any longer.
This is also why the younger generations are mostly into gaming and apps more. I remember when Leokimvideo said that in a video he filmed at a model railway exhibition a year ago. He also explained about how train shows/exhibitions drive kids away from the hobby instead of towards it. I’m not sure if you saw that or not, but I just think kids who are interested in trains are going to spend more time on train simulators instead of building actual layouts. The train simulator downloable content can either be free or be payware which are far cheaper than actual models since I bought some myself. Once someone buys a simulator game, their virtual train collection would grow larger in less time than it would take for someone who collects actual model trains. I can see why the gaming industry is doing well when it comes to virtual trains.
My son Doug is always very popular when we exhibit because he is usually the only exhibitor under 50. The hobby esp in the UK is obsessed with the steam era which holds limited interest to younger modellers or even late entries like me who have no memory of steam, so I agree with you.
I get mines free cause Santa 🎅🏻
Used to always buy Model Stuff New. Prices Rose. Now I buy half my stuff Second Hand. Bought a brand new Bachmann coach the other day £39.99. A week later, at a model railway show, old Lima Class 20 Br Green, £35. Runs Great. What's that say about prices?
What a well thought out video. As said elsewhere I model in N Gauge for space reasons, and fined the costs somewhat expensive in today's market. When I started the models were very limited and basic, yet reasonably priced. If you acquired models on ebay you were buying from sellers that were selling dads old models, and you bid accordingly. Now ebay are mostly shops with there buy it now prices, I have even seen second hand priced as new. Even the swap meets are asking high prices for tat. I envisage a day when the model rail industry will price itself out of business unless it wakes up to reality. Keep up the good work guy's
Thanks, second had prices are silly now in some places
Having worked in a model shop quite a few years ago, one thing to remember, its not perishable stock. That loco, carriage, or even tank kit, can sit on that shelf, at full retail price, and wait until someone buys at that price. The one I used to work at models shop in Sheffield (won't say which, but you may gather), I only worked for them a short while, but I remember repricing all the Hornby stock to updated RRP at the start of the new year. I also remember (they might not do this anyway more) was the Hornby new year clear out, where the sold the accessory/track stock at a further reduced price, but the savings weren't passed onto the customer.
As you said, its dying hobby to many, especially in the world of smaller housing. The people able to buy the stock is the older generation, those younger, who are probably too young to remember real mainline steam will probably avoid getting into the hobby with the lack of space and funds.
Yes, the starter sets are great value for money, they are designed to be. I have a starter set put aside I got for £30 from Asda after Christmas (I did hear it got reduced to £20 in some stores). How they are able to sell at that price is beyond me, when the controller is £33....PLUS £22 FOR THE PLUG! £55 total, and Asda can sell a set for £20-30 and still make a profit?!?! As others have said, some sellers can sell a different version of the same loco for half the price is very unusal
Hornby has a tough time, and has made it tough for themselves. Overpriced loco's, loco's at the same price despite being the same model from decades ago, selling the same tired starter sets, selling the Thomas range at normal Hornby prices, unsure if they are selling a hobby or a toy. Scalextric suffers from other PoV's, they are toys but aimed at collectors "Yes, I want my rather expensive £30-40 highley detailed model car to fly off the table and break", so they end just being static display pieces, so you're spending money for an electric motor for something that'll never leave the case! They also suffer the Christmas bubble, you get some interest for the starter sets, but once its over, there's no follow up sales
I've watched other hobbies become more focused towards the older generations. My father does amateur radio, and the cost of such items are both hard to justify to completely insane, and largely unneeded by those younger. However, like model railways, any image of a kid playing with equipment is jumped on "SEE! KIDS ARE ENJOYING THIS!" when in reality, they haven't a clue what they're doing and just enjoying the wurring sounds of their actions
Games Workshop is also a place of "we like money, and you like our models, which will break first, our sales, or your wallet" style of selling. Yes, they have started the Warhammer Conquest magazine to get people either into, or back into the hobby. However they are limited to only 2 armies, and the seller of the mags are renowned for giving up after a while. But to actually get into the hobby is expensive, £35 for the corebook, or £95 for the starter set (their are cheaper ones, but they don't include the full rulebook), to get a reasonable army it can be at least £200-300, plus about £50 for the all the tools/paints it can be expensive to fit in to the crowd who have been collecting for years. Add in the shocking inconstant for "tabletop quality" of painting and its easy to shy away, when you try painting and you're left feeling down because you can't do anything like the amazing standard put before you
Overall, I do hope that the prices do go down. Getting people into the hobby is vital, Games Workshop has done a fantastic job lately with a new CEO, where they've moved towards getting people into or back into the hobby. Alongside the "gateway" products, they've done lots of a mini games with nods to older games systems. Add in their masses of computer games releases, they've branched out. Hornby have tried getting kids into the hobby (The Junior range), but wheres the expansion? Where do you go from there? That set is aimed at a 4+yr old, how is that spark going to last the next few years when they can truly use the much more detailed loco's.
am an old train enthusiast myself, when I was part of train spotter club in the uk in my teens, I had an old hornby set long time ago, Rocky Mountain Express, came complete with layout already pre=assembled, good set, and looking at prices today, really do agree that prices shouldnt be so expensive for young ones coming into the hobby.....and for people like myself and older generation, that the cost of the sets and or locomotives and coaches, shouldn't be so expensive....I would like to start another set from scratch, but the cost, is one thing that is putting me off starting,
Might just start with a set and totally familar with here in Australia....and start up from there, and most probably extend when I get the place of my own, but would have the sets in storage...until that day happens.
Good luck with it thanks for commenting
Good luck I used cereal box card to back up my scale scenes coal office
Be glad you don't have to pay to import them. As one of the few Americans who is into building British model railways, British products are so obscure that you have to pay extra to get them shipped overseas. Some even arrive broken through the mail and you have to go through the hassle of sending them back. After about five years and some 800 or so dollars later, only have 4 engines, some track, and a few bits of rolling stock. I've put them in a box in the attic because I can't even afford to build a layout now.
That's a shame, I guess the only cheap option is to run US outline? We have looked into sending stuff to the US but the postage is prohibitive.
I occasionally run across very old Hornby for sale in the US with price stickers from US toy store chains. The prices the people want online are either too high for how old it is or the train is broken in some way. I'm not really into US outline stuff and even those are starting to get expensive. It would be better just to save my money and buy a real locomotive.
It cuts the other way as well. I wanted a kit by walthers, paid for it, paid a second time over for postagem then got hit by import duties and customs, on top of which I faced a 120 mile round trip to go collect it. I didnt bother!
I started off buying wagons and locos etc a few years before building a layout but nearly all my items were bought in sales or second hand or even damaged and they are euro trains made in the e.u the prices are quite expensive but the quality is very good. Some of the Hornby tooling is over 40 years old ... Hornby still sell some of these items today...it's just pure greed...
The Hornby Class 37 is a ridiculous joke, isn't it? I'm surprised that people still but them.
Same over here in the states. Prices have gone through the roof and beyond.
Plus, the detail that is on the cars and locos now kind of take away from the fun of putting aftermarket detail parts on the models, and/or painting and decaling them.
I have only discovered your channel, and as a young person who is interested in model railways, I wholeheartedly agree with all of the points you express here.
I personally have been very lucky as my father started me off with a really good set when I was five or six, with high fidelity items which weren't entirely suited for my age. He then went through a stage of buying old triang/lima/mainline locos and rolling stock on ebay (although the period/region accuracy was all over the place!), and bought all of the buildings I needed at an early stage. If all this hasn't happened, I think it would have been nigh on impossible for me to really get into the hobby later on.
On my tiny layout in a garage, I have built up a modest collection of locos . However, it is very difficult to accumulate enough money to even buy a decent coaches from my very limited pocket money, let alone engines - most of mine are either one-off birthday/christmas presents, or purchases from ebay and the occasional train fair. But I would NEVER even contemplate buying direct from Hornby or Bachmann, at their crippling prices.
To be fair to Hornby though, I am sadly not convinced there would be a significant market in the younger generation today, even if the prices were lower, without a transformative increase in awareness and a change in how the hobby is viewed. Moreover, the benefit of producing models in China can surely only decrease over time, especially as worker's wages and labour costs increase - although 3D printing etc. may partly offset this.
All very good points, thanks for commenting
you hit the nail on the head here,it is overpriced,i saw an unpowered emu 4 car trailer unit at 300 pounds,looks great but far too expensive,i also remember when Hornby and co moved production to china,they said it was cheaper,but do believe one manufacturer, manufactures in wales,not much difference in price,you are not the only person complaining about this either.in peace.jpj
I seem to remember seeing somewhere Hornby's announcement that they were moving production to China and they said "we don't expect this to effect the price". I would've expected it to effect the price - downwards!!!!! I don't think that happened though.
The manufacturer in Wales you are thinking of is Dapol, their rolling stock is reasonably priced in my opinion.
if i had children and wanted them to get into model railroading i would rather teach them to build models buildings tracks electronics etc themselves. it cuts costs and keeps them usefully occupied while they learn. because just running a train on a circle will make them bored quickly. rather go out into nature and collect stuff which you can use nicely on your layout. make buildings yourself from cardboard paint them weather them etc...
for my first layout i used big matchboxes as tunnels on a table. i was very young and just happy to use all kinds if stuff which was not made for model trains to enhance it. :-)
those were matchboxes with mountains printed on them. it was enough to get the mind of a young kid engaged for a while...
Very well said
Some of the prices these days really take the piss. Thank goodness for retailers like Hattons who give you the odd bargain.
I agree with you too, well put. From the comments it's clear there are many who would spend more on new if the prices were reasonable and there would be better take up of the hobby which would be good for both manufacturers and their customers I.e us railway modellers. We all have a choice, to buy high or refuse and shop around for sensible prices and use second hand; that is exactly what I have done on getting back into the hobby in retirement. In my opinion voting with your feet plus as some are starting to do tell the manufacturers their customers have had enough and they are losing business as a result. Unfortunately some company pricing policies are to sell for as high as they can and not at a reasonable cost. There are many companies who work on single digit percentage overall profits, so a small change either way in gross sales can make a massive change in their fortunes. Let's hope they realise this for the better of the hobby, we are loyal to it please do not try and rip us off.
Excellent video. I'm 60 and myself and a friend considered starting a joint effort from scratch. We looked at prices and walked away. I also considered buying a set up for my grandson but it was just way too expensive. We bought him the child's battery kit that you showed, but won't be expanding on it.
The only way is second hand but even then for decent stuff (and we all want it recent and in good condition), it's still silly money.
Sadly all good points. We bought most of our stuff second hand five years ago. Until recently second hand stuff has been OK price wise but now it too is going up and up, you can still get bargains but its hard work
unbelievably expensive
I am from India and All I Could do is watch others participate In this Beautiful Hobby ;(
Half of the things arent even available here let alone Locos !!!
I wish The International Presence of these Companies Was a Bit Better and more Affordable .
I find it amazing that there is no demand or market for model railways in India, the potential market is huge, the big suppliers are seriously missing an opportunity
@@BudgetModelRailways Can You Help Me How to Get started in this hobby ? Please Make a Video on how International Hobbyists like us , Specially Adolescents like us can acquire the necessary things and sets to get started :)
I also want to Spend Time with Trains and have a beautiful time with my family just like You and others have . Thank You .
I have a question : Is it me or have Hornby products got really cheap looking and seem really rather flimsy...As a kid I'm sure Hornby was way better made....
I agree with your views, even in 1991, when I was 20, Model Railways were still expensive, as back then I was planning to build a 3z6 foot n gauge model railway, the total cost would have been £850 for a fully working n gauge model railway without any scenery added. I am about to start a new model railway which will be £2200 for a 3x12 foot model railway, I will be able to budget £250 a month to the cost, but that might change once I have moved into a decent 2 bedroom flat, the costs are higher for gauge 1 Aster locomotives (£7000 for a RTR Flying Scotsmans Live Steam) and for 16mm scale, for a Roundhouse Engineering Live Steam Lady Anne, the cost is £1815.00 from one retailer, and other 16mm scale retailers have similar prices.
Growing up I was allowed to purchase a new rail car, or a new building (kits only, no premade) each year during December. We got the layout off of the garage wall and set it up each year right after Thanksgiving (end of November for those no familiar with the US holiday), and that weekend we'd go to the hobby store and look around. That was from 1988 to 2000. As an adult, looking at getting back into the hobby when my family and I get moved into our "new" house, my railroad spending will probably confuse most people. But seriously, I appreciate your comments on the hobby. In the US it seems to be aimed at the more skilled, but you still see the starter sets all of the time. As a Frisco enthusiast who grew up in the city that was their headquarters (I live in Springfield, Missouri, and the railroad line was purchased by Burlington Northern about 40 some odd years ago), the hardest stuff to find are the passenger cars, but you're vides have given the confidence enough to look into making my own cars if necessary.
Great background from a US perspective, many thanks. Take care. Mike
I‘d suggest you to try out the german manufacturer PIKO. Sometimes they have very high quality stuff for an affordable price. In their stores they sometimes sell for example locos in a damaged box, so it’s 30€ cheaper but still brand new and functional ;)
Thanks for the heads up
about time you changed your name from Budget Model Railways to Common Sense Railways
That's very kind, thanks
We've pointed this video directly at Hornby, Bachmann, and Dapol on our twitter feed. It will be interesting to see if they respond.
Excellent , let us know if you get a reply
Good luck with that...........
Heres an example. The class 450 from bachmann is £300. It is just a class 350 without a pantograph. the class 350 from bachmann is 180-210 pounds (maybe more).
You'd expect them to be a similar price becuase they are basically the same train..... anyways i get what you mean but its the way companies do things. Like it probably cost less then half the price of the iPhone 11 to make.
Very good video. I have seen Huge G scale sets going for £225 yet some single OO scale models are going for well over that. It's absolutely ridiculous because they're saying to you that you would get an ENTIRE train set in a larger scale for less than a OO gauge loco.