The Controversial Ending of Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth (SPOILERS)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 มี.ค. 2024
- Final Fantasy VII Rebirth's ending was loaded with mystery, and I talk deeper about thoughts on this ending and where the developers go from here with part 3.
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#finalfantasyviirebirth #finalfantasyvii #ff7 - เกม
Still processing the ending, but for a moment during the final boss fight as Cait Sith all I could think about is Reeve watching all of this on his feed while he is controlling Cait with either a controller or a mocap suit. 😂
Lol You're right, I forgot about that. This dude is looking at everything going on like 😳 Nigga wtf?
in a way, Reeve is playing along with us lol.
Absolutely hilarious that "adding more mini games" is the 2nd most popular answer in the poll at 2:20 and now everyone is complaining about too many mini games lmaooo
Only mini game I didn't like was cactuar rush the hard mode was a nightmare to complete
the mini games were kinda fun, until they became extremely irritating. The easy versions are all fine. The more challenging versions, which actually gatekeep crafting and getting some good equipment, not to mention finishing all quests, or getting some trophies, are absurd. Specially 3d battle. Fuck that shit and fuck whoever created that.
it was okay until you beat the initial side quests and stuff and then each region got more
@@lucasrfma The 3D battler stayed true to the original and it already sucked there. In this version they added more options for an entirely reactional, intuitively awkward combat system with extremely similar animation for different moves as cherry on top. One of the mini games they should've changed from the ground up, like chocobo racing.
@@lucasrfma is this your first video game?
Schrödinger's Aerith... she is dead and alive at the same time
Yes it’s obvious
The same way that Zack has died in the current world but it's alive in another one.
Why even play the game if you're going to deny the multiverse setting?
She's alive. Get over it.
Why even play the game if you're going to deny the multiverse setting?
She's dead. Get over it.
That cracked me up 😂
I think people forgot what sephiroth said during chapter 14, how every action leads to another timeline, and the visual cues of the timelines. When cloud blocked the killing blow, the rainbow colors appeared, depicting another timeline. She's dead, in the original timeline she is, and in the alternate timeline where Zack was in. But, shes alive in this one, the rebirth timeline. That's why Cloud can see the gap in the sky while his crewmates dont see it. He's stuck between timelines.
That's the problem with multiverse stuff, if you don't fully commit to it and embrace these implications it can feel really arbitrary what creates an alternate timeline.
Is there a timeline for choosing alternate Costa del Sol costumes? Or where the party is captured by Hojo? Where Sephiroth fumbles the ball so badly he's never a threat? Where he rolls an one and misses the fatal blow on Aerith?
Exactly clouds in between worlds.
I think she's dead in the Rebirth timeline but alive in another one. That would explain the party thinking she's dead, but not Cloud because she has got awareness of the multiverse for what has happen durict chapter 14. That's why Cloud also is capable of seeing the rift in the sky that Aerith acknowledged in the new traslated ending of remake
@@lergat agreed
@@bodacious6622that ultimately doesn't feel as significant
there are multiple timelines but in the one that were experiencing it we were robbed of Aerith living anyways
Aerith never really "died" not even in OG FF7. Or to put it another way, she has always had the ability to communicate with the living even after death. Which in essence means she never dies. She has always been a "force ghost" Same with Zack. She needed to "die" in the OG to save the planet from Sephiroth. In AC, she clearly communicates with Cloud beyond death. You even see both her and Zack. Rebirth is just expanding on all of that. And the multiple worlds are clearly a plot device for Sephiroth to have a new way to destroy the planet because his first attempt in OG FF7 didn't work. There is no need to wait for part 3 to understand that. If anyone is thinking that the multiple worlds is pointless, they haven't been paying attention.
Thank you!
The thing I don't see people mentioning.
Aerith said after the trials not to use anger hate and rage to be stronger, Sephiroth specifically said multiple times to let that rage burn and consume (paraphrasing).
Aerith was comforting Cloud at the end so he wouldn't be consumed hence why he didn't have a limit in the fight with Jenova.
I think Clouds connection to Sephiroth is allowing him to see the alternative timeline where he saved her. Initially Sephiroth was using this connection to feed memories n information to Cloud to mess him up but I think now Sephiroth has opened that door he can't close it and now Cloud is using that connection similarly to Harry Potter seeing Voldemorts thoughts or POV n Aerith is using that connection against Sephiroth knowing Cloud will be able to see her being ok.
Even if this isn't true I hope my idea breeds interesting discussion 👍
Just thought about the additional texts, bad feelings corrupted the lifestream creating negative lifestream as Sephiroth went around spreading negativity to create geostigma Aerith goes round spreading positivity to counter... I think that's when she finds the spirits of Biggs wedge and Jessie and asks for their help...
The world Aerith takes Cloud to at the end everyone is positive despite it being the end Sephiroth even says she's hiding in a world that's accepted it's fate whereas Zacks world everyone seems quite down... I dunno I feel there's something there 🤷😅
Theres a very important detail in the ending cg where whenever cloud is looking aerith is there but when he isnt she is nowhere to be seen, this leads me to believe that she may just be in clouds head but nanaki sensing her kinda debunks that theory so maybe she is just showing herself to him through the lifestream because she knows that if he finds out she is dead that will break him even more also i heard maxdood say this and its true..aerith isnt acting like aerith in the last convo with cloud..she tells him things she wouldnt say and i dont think its bad writing cause everyone else is on point..there's just something off about her..she even tells him she will stop the meteor even though sephiroth doesnt even have the black materia yet.
for me the problem with that interpretation is how the last cgi scene is directed and animated.
We see aerith from cloud’s pov(not internal but still) - when he looks at her from the hill. And then we see her walking around party members with sad face at moments, big shots of sad face... why show this if cloud is far from her and don’t see it? so no need to pretend to fool cloud. So we are shown Aerith emotions. Not jenova’s or seph’s. also if you slow down the video you can clearly see that Aerith puts on a smile when she turns to cloud (like with much effort) but turning away - she immediately gets this very sad face!
The thing that I found very interesting... she seems not to see party members. Only Cloud. But she feels them? I noticed that she didn’t look directly at yuffie and tifa, she touched only Nanaki and looked at him with a smile but maybe it is because he is kinda ‘special’ creature and she can comfort him through time and space? It is also interesting that she is the last one to turn to Bronco’s loud noise when Cid fixes it. Seems like she is detached from party members and what they are doing, partly from physical processes, so maybe she sees only Cloud and the plane, but not Cid fixing it. but somehow she feels their 'aura' and sorrow maybe? or another interpretation - it is hard for her to look at them crying so she avoids it and does not avoid Nanaki because he is the only one who can still feel her alive.
and about the things she say - i think they showed it with her body language (she struggles to turn to cloud and to ask for this terrible promise) that she HAS TO send cloud to fight seph, cause she kinda failed it to do this alone like in OG
Íts because we have TWO Aerith in the last CGI scene. The first one who doesnt talk and can be sensed by Nanaki and the second one that appears after Cloud puts the Black Materia into his buster sword and only repeats line Aerith said throughout the games.
I think the first one is the real deal but only appearing to Cloud from the lifestream and the second is one created by Jenova from Clouds mind because Sephiroth needs to control him more and Cloud still thinks that Aerith is alive
I have a feeling that these multiple time lines or worlds is gonna be how cloud learns omni slash as its going to be mutiple versions of himself coming together and attacking at once
I like this theory
I'm predicting an ending swerve. All the multi-verse stuff and all the Sephiroth stuff is going to be revealed to be Cloud's hallucinations/insanity at the end of Part 3 tying it all back into being a remake. It will be revealed to simply be a retelling of Final Fantasy 7 with a much greater emphasis and exploration of Cloud's mental state than was possible in the original game.
@@canisblackbut how do you explain all other characters seeing and being effected by the whispers?
Omniverseslash
There is already ONE reason the multiple worlds is important. We saw that the main Aerith had a translucent white materia, which hinted that it was powerless. That was why Aerith and Cloud having that date in the alternate world was also important, because Aerith was able to get a new white materia and was able to send it back to Cloud while sacrificing herself to Sephiroth.
The purpose of the branching worlds are basically just to explore different philosophies toward life. For instance in the poem loveless, it talks about three people. One who becomes a prisoner (of fate) one who flies away (from fate) and the one who remains and becomes a hero. They show this with Zack's encounters with the Shinra Soldiers. In one scenario, the reactor, he decides to make his own rules and defy fate (i.e. fly away) in the other scenario he says "ah well the world's going to end anyway" (prisoner of fate) and just charges toward his foes. Both of these are the "wrong" or non-heroic choices. But the heroic choice is the choice he made outside Midgar, his true fate where he didn't run from his fate, nor did he give into the inevitability of his death. He embraced both his dreams and his fate simultaneously which is the "correct" path to heroism, in contrast to Sephiroth who rejects his fate and has no dreams. Sephiroth catapulted Zack into a despairing world where his heroic last stand is taken from him, and there is nothing to live for. You see a glimpse of this where he returns to the Church and she is absent, with only sobbing church attendees.
And then you have the two worlds. One where the flowers are dying and everyone is despairing including Marlene and Biggs. This is a world of Sephiroth's creation and will. They are nihilistic and have given up hope, and Zack is brought into that world via the reunion of worlds (and to deny Zack his true heroic fate.) This is the bad world meant to explore the bad way to face your fate. But then there is the world of Aerith's creation and will. They are having fun going on a date, and the flowers are blooming etc. The couples are having fun having their photo taken. All the vendors are happy and cheerful. And yet the world is still ending, much like Sephiroth's cruel world he placed Zack in, and Aerith tells Cloud to not look up. To instead just roll with it and enjoy the date. These two worlds, the cruel world of Sephiroth and hopeful world of Aerith are both exploring these two contrasting philosophies toward fate (and life in general.) Sephiroth who is terrified of non-existence, and would rather live alone for eternity than merge with the lifestream. And Aerith who is also saddened by her fate, but embraces it and uses that sadness as a reminder of all the joy she had in life.
It is kind of bizarre and convoluted but I'm pretty sure this what the worlds are meant to represent. Different choices you make in life, that alter what your dreams (your potential futures) might be. The lifestream and its arbiters don't just return the memories of your past back to the heart of the planet, it also carries your dreams for the future. And when the "boundaries of fate are breached" and those whispers can be thwarted, your dreams for the future are made reality and that is what we see with the different worlds.
Cloud isn't even seeing two timelines. He only sees the timeline where Aerith lives. Cloud, and the player by extension, is spared the loss. It's a scene that used to be about loss, but is now about branch timelines.
yeah but nojima still wrote it.
@@arceptor And?
@@Alassandros i cant believe hes so good at adapting a story and make it new but feel samey
It's still about loss. It's pretty obvious that Cloud is having another traumatic/psychotic episode where he's refusing to accept the loss of her. I think it'll all be shown and obviously explained in part 3. We can't take part 2 as if it were final.
@@MiguelAldanotes I would argue that it's pretty obvious that he didn't lose her. Cloud can see a different timeline where Aerith continues to live (for now anyway). He can see the rifts in the sky. He's definitely going through some mental stuff, but that's Cloud, not us.
The sense of loss was lost for us because we didn't lose Aerith. What does it matter if she died in one reality when we can experience her in another? That's why I think this version of the Aerith death scene is worse. First, it leaves us with confusion and then it leaves us with nothing because she doesn't actually die. I would've been happier if they just let us save her, but they couldn't just stick to a clear and solid plan.
Also, expecting part 3 to do the job part 1 and 2 didn't is probably misguided. Part 1 and 2 did a lot of work to create questions without doing ANYTHING to provide answers for any questions. Why would they change that now? Seems like they're perfectly okay with leaving us confused. I don't expect any clear resolution for part 3.
I liked the ending but there's no denying they sacrificed emotional impact for intrigued.
Cloud actually managed to save Aerith in forgotten capital. When Cloud blocked Sephiroth's sword a bright rainbow colored light appeared out of nowhere and then Sephiroth's sword flies into the ground. Then the scene switches into main timeline where he kills Aerith. We see Aerith being covered in blood when Barret and the others arrive to the scene. When we see them crying around her body there is no rainbow light anywhere to be seen. Then after the final fight is over Cloud walks to check on Aerith, the scene changes and Barret and the others mysteriously disappear and Cloud is suddenly alone with Aerith and this bright rainbow colored light is surrounding the altar. We learned from Zack's actions that this light symbolizes the creation of parallel worlds. Also Sephiroth said that everytime the fate gets breached it leads into the creation of another parallel world. This is what we see when Cloud blocks Sephiroth's attack in forgotten capital. The scene goes back and forth implying that there are two parallel realities where Aerith died and survived. Main timeline Aerith is dead but Aerith from that timeline Cloud's actions created is alive and well. When this light is surrounding the altar we see that Aerith is uninjured. There is no blood to be seen around her body. Cloud asks Aerith to wake up and she opens her eyes and smiles at Cloud. Main world Aerith's spirit also thanked Cloud for saving her during the last fight
"I saw what you did back there Cloud, thank you."
and Cait Sith's first fortune reading heavily foreshadows this moment:
"Things are looking up so throw your caution to the wind. Place your trust in others and the last minute twist may pleasantly surprise you."
I love this ending. Cloud finally saved her. This is the ending i wanted to see. Even if it happens in parallel timeline i'll gladly take it.
I agree with this which is also why I think at the end when they are boarding the tiny bronco cloud sees the rift in the sky. I believe that his actions saved the Aerith that we played with through remake and rebirth but through the events that took place during the boss fight I believe that cloud that we played as got transferred to a timeline where she did die. We also never saw which Stamp was present when they were boarding the tiny bronco at the end. But Idk I really liked the ending myself as well 🤷🏼♀️
@@sassychespins I think what really bugs people is that they will have to wait 3 years or so to finally find out for sure and people hate waiting
I've watched the ending quite a few times now, and now I know what to look for, I kinda dig it more. It's actually really dark. Cloud refusing to accept her death could have a fantastic payoff in the last part. His repression of the whole scene mirrors his reaction to Zack's death too, so it actually makes more sense he would do that, than brush it off like he does in the OG.
Poor Tifa, by the way. I'm really looking forward to her finally redeeming Cloud in the last part and getting some closure. I think that's when they will show us Aerith's water burial scene.
Seeing Cloud's schizophrenia is real time while it's complimented with the party members' raw reaction to the death scene, was actually very sad for me to watch. If you happen to know a schizo in real life, it is indeed pretty fuckin sad to witness.
He’s not in denial tifa sees her alive and dead like cloud did
She does not
you nailed it, I felt the same way and really loved the ending
@@zacatkinson3926 i think that's probably a function of tifa's contact with the lifestream earlier in the game. Cloud is definitely repressing the whole event (otherwise we would've seen the burial) but there is also lifestream weirdness going on with these "worlds" that Sephiroth mentions. Bit of both I think.
My only issue is that the impact of Aerith's death gets drowned because you have 10 boss fights right after. The death in the OG was way more heartbreaking because you see her get impaled. And the weight of it all hits you because you only have a short boss fight and then you have to sit and mourn it after, and drop her into the lake, and see the 2 other party members with you react to the death. And Cloud gives an epic speech about how much pain he is in (which they still might show in the 3rd part I understand that)
They still could have done the same conclusion, but after Cloud blocks the attack and they flash to the blood, they could have flashed to Sephiroth actually impaling Aerith, and having the sword still inside her, so it is less confusing. On top of this, let everyone in the party mourn her death for longer (right after her death). Then after that, have her appear to Cloud after. It would still set up the next game and continue whatever plan they have in store but actually give the death room to breathe.
Typical square move. Convoluted timeline/alternate reality stories or some crap about free will and friendship is what they've always done. I loved FF7 OG, because that was one of the few exceptions to this and it actually picked up some interesting criticisms to our real world (capitalism and environmentalism), but now Rebirth is a top contender for the most convoluted story ever. I cared much more about Barrett and Dyne's story and even the Ifalna clip with kid Aerith looking for a doctor was alot more emotional than the "ending" to Aerith's plot.
Kind of the same feeling I had about FF16. Should've leaned much harder into the Game of Thrones inspiration and the slaves freeing themselves of their oppressors with the help of the Eikons. Instead they made it about a godlike creature again who's pulling the strings and trying to take away everyones "free will", because it's a selfish super alien that doesn't want to share the cake.
I honestly wish they just stuck with the OG plot and built complexity on Jenova, Shinra and Wutai instead of trying to look like the smart kid who's too invested into unproven, theoretical and confusing concepts. Might as well have made this about string theory or quantum mechanics.
They did a really good job aside from the ending and the whispers crap. Remake and Rebirth would've been some of the best games of all time and the trilogy would've ended up being unforgettable if they decided against the multiverse. Alternate reality and time travel plots always at least reduce the stakes and always make a story less emotionally investing and more convoluted for the sake of complexity.
I personally feel like it's also sacrificing thematic storytelling for intrigue (and some fanservice). There's just something really off in both Remake and Rebirth where you go through almost all the same events of a story crafted around specific themes, and then at the last minute switch to something totally different. I'm highly curious for when the final game drops, and we pose the question of "what was this story really trying to say?"
@@kayzaac we'll just have to see but I do think the writers for this game should not have tried to do multiverses/timelines as it just gets convoluted fast.
@@kayzaac I feel bad for the new players that don't have the context of the OG game or other FF7 media, because they were told by Square they can play this with no prior knowledge. Which I think was horribly misleading. And new players don't get to experience the true story of FF7. I hope they can make sense of all this by the end of the 3rd game
@@kayzaac I have a bad feeling that what the story is trying to say is: "I am tetsu nomura! >:} "
I think the Aertih that helps us fight Sephiroth was either the alternate version (the one we went on a date with before she kicks Cloud out) or it was "our" Aerith and she just projected herself through the lifestream onto that dimension that they were fighting in. She even comments that she "saw" what Cloud did and thanked him (as in he tried to save her/that version of Aerith).
And the Aerith Cloud sees after the debacle is definatly her projecting herself from the lifestream, since nobody else can see her but Cloud, yet Nanaki can clearly feel her touch.
But then again, Aerith might very well be existing as a hivemind through all possible timelines, on the account of being a Cetra and knows those timelines rarley last anyway, but given how Cloud immediatley noticed that Aertih was acting strange in the "dream" world, as she called it, i'd say she was acting strange in Clouds view, because she wasn't his Aerith, close, but just different enough that Cloud would notice (Remember how Aerith say's Cloud has a good eye for picking up on things like that, when you confront Cissnei?).
Regarding "dream Aerith", Sephiroth speaks onminously as if he's been hunting her for awhile and the assumption would be that she has been hiding on alternate timelines, so my take is that she was definatly _not_ the main Aerith.
And in fact in the forrest were Cloud gives her the white materia he got from alternate Aerith, they off handedly hint at there actually being multiple Aeriths colaborating to restore the "proper" timeline (her walking past one tree and appearing at the next, like a Leshen from Witcher :P).
The proper timeline being were she ends up dying, but Cloud and the team defeat Sephiroth and saves the world. Every version of Aerith would willingly sacrifce her life for others to live, especially the entire planet AND her friends. And as the black whispers "work" for Sephiroth, i'd wager that the white ones work for "Lifestream goddess" Aerith.
They dropped the ball with not showing Aerith being impaled, it made you hate and fear Sephiroth as a human, then his final angel form made you realize you were fighting god and made the final fight that much more emotional
Can’t wait to see Cloud and Zack use Omni slash side by side in the void tho
I just gotta say, and i hope that im not alone in this, that the very end of the game starting when the party is sitting by the pool (that pool) is downright creepy. Cloud is acting like nothing actually happened while the rest of the party is mortified by what just happened. The "aerith" that cloud is seeing is 100% a fake. Either a jenova or sephiroth imitation. Cause she directly contradicts what she says in the forest to cloud where she tells him NOT to fight sephiroth and to take care of himself. This new version actively encourages him to do it. He tells her hes gonna fight sephiroth and she goes "You Promise?" Remember that sephiroth said that jenova can take the form of people you care about and people you love. Sure Red sensed her when she walked by but that wasnt the real Aerith. She legit doesn't exist unless cloud is looking directly at her. Watch the ending scene again and unless he's actively looking at her she is nowhere to be found.
Also feel so bad for Tifa cause shes seeing cloud acting this way and she stays silent the whole time and looks genuinely hurt that he's acting like she never even existed. When Barret tells the party they need to move on cloud looks at tifa and says cmon with an almost demanding tone. Also at the end when Barret tells cloud everything is on his shoulders he replies like yeah i got this and almost smiles at him. The look on Barrets face is one of almost horror and once again Tifa looks absolutely mortified at how happy go lucky hes acting when a few hours prior they witnessed Aerith get killed. I have a feeling at the start of part 3 we're gonna see a very dark and brutal version of cloud like how he was acting when he killed the shinra soldiers and almost killed Elena
You might be on to something. He equipped the "you-know-what" to the Buster Sword after finding it in his pocket and mumbling Reunion.
Cloud is still very much under Sephiroth's and puppet strings no matter how you slice it. I'm wondering how Cloud is going to come back from all this if he is so far gone already.
I did a video on this where you can see her eyes are same as Sephiorth in NIbelheim its just a very creepy scene indeed
Cloud became my hated character. I'm a girl that lived her life through abusive relationships, and the way cloud was toward her, almost demanding of her, or commanding her. I found myself calling him an a$$ Hole. I hate/love that they made me both hate and think of cloud as a creepy villain. Lets be honest here. Sephiroth is evil sure, but Cloud? Cloud owned that, i got chills almost every time he would freak out. like literally my hair would stand on its ends that is how scary cloud came off. like some kind of PTSD split personality that is just so monstrous, more so than that of Sephiroth. Cloud felt really scary.
@bonniescalise6274 the particularly brutal attitude ramped up the strongest near the end. His response to her emotional speech - "are you done yet?" Said as cold as possible. You have the PTSD but at this point he's sephiroth‐puppetmaxxed with a one track mind. It was rough, my viewing I thought the few moments like that drove home painfully how mindbroke he is with his jenova cell manipulation and general fractured psyche. I appreciate your take though.
You do realize that Cloud is not in his right mind throughout a lot of this story. Quite literally in fact as he sometimes can't even walk up right or walk straight at all due to what's happening to him. Cloud is a victim of Mako Poisoning and mind manipulation from Sephiroth.
Also, Cloud was turning into Sephiroth and talking like him during the Revisit to the Mt. Nebil reactor cave. Cloud recited Sephiroth's monolog about naturally formed materia word for word. This poor sap shuffles around like a zombie because he can barely keep himself upright properly most of the time. Between the migraines from his damaged memory, the Jenova Cell infusion, the effects of Mako Poisoning lingering on him, Sephiroth trying to manipulate him, and just straight up turning into Sephiroth, is it any wonder why Cloud is acting so erratically and out of character?
The trilogy is LITERALLY a sequel to advent children: from the first game you can clearly tell that Aerith and Sephiroth knew what was going to happen in the future and by challenging fate multiple timelines were created so there’s still a chance to see Aerith back in the third game in fact she’s alive in Zack’s timeline.
Sephiroth and the cetras can see some random futures
But that not exclusive from advent children
So it could be a sequel, or simply not
Nope, it’s just bad writing.
I'm a hardcore FFVII original fan, but I won't lie that I loved all of the twists and turns for the ending. Aerith is my favorite video game character of all time. I loved seeing her more and comfort Cloud at the end. I do hope we get to see the lowering of her in the water for the next game and to see Cloud truly mourning her death. Great video as always.
I'm not hardcore fan but even hardcore fan can except this loved to see that....
No doubt! I imagine in the third game, they'll reveal the true ending of Aerith's death and the words Cloud said that were muted. It'll happen when Tifa helps Cloud regain his memories, and I bet it'll be super emotional cause he'll finally have to come to terms with Aerith's death. That's why I'm not too hard on Rebirth's ending, personally.
Same here! I've been really happy with what they've done thus far.
Cloud has accepted Aerith's death, but he knows the true state of reality, which means her death does not matter. It is not death; it is a homecoming. This is why he is not affected by her death. She died, but in another reality, she is alive, and he saved her.
Sephiroth's goal is to get Cloud to devalue life by showing him endless possibilities of worlds where his friends survive. To give Cloud a false comfort to ultimately strip it all away so he can have the pear. Aerith wants Cloud to value life and every moment they shared as significant. Cloud continues to struggle as he is still under the influence.
I am on the side of this theory. I think Cloud can see into multiple timelines. (Not at his own will) When Sephiroth shows him the "True Nature of Reality" and we see the many different timelines, Sephiroth says he's leaving us with a "gift" but he doesn't give us anything. I believe this gift is the knowledge of the timelines. Endless possibilities and the chaos that comes with it. Knowledge of things nobody should ever have, therefore cloud is going crazy trying to know what's real in this reality and real in other realities.
Cloud doesn't have a full understanding (he thinks the others can see the tear in the sky) so this will cause some friction, where Cloud and the rest of the party have a different perception of which is the "true" timeline, and you can bet SE will keep us guessing throughout the 3rd game.
Except no, she didn't die in the Prime world where the Temple is on the North. Seph hunts her in every doomed world, such as the OG game where the Temple is in the South.
Give up on the failed narrative.
@@josephr.2763makes sense as to why Cloud thinks the rift in the sky is "just an illusion"
i just found they blurred the lines too much at the wrong time so we lost the emotion of her death etc. i'm ok with how it ended etc but we didnt get the gravity and emotion we got from the original aerith death.
Yes i agree. Her death should be sad, not confusing.
Ending of Rebirth aside, I do see some potential promise in the concept of having Aerith continue to be an active character despite being dead. The most obvious is playing as Aerith as she wanders the Lifestream trying to kickstart the Holy spell, along the way reuniting with and helping out old friends, old enemies, Ifalna, and the rest of the Cetra.
Of course, now that it's established that Aerith can interact with Cloud, we can also have some wacky adventures with the mercenary and his ghost girlfriend. It would be refreshing for Aerith to not take her death too seriously and even crack jokes about it, especially if it means trolling Cloud and getting him to lighten up.
And then there's the pathos angle. Even if death isn't an ending for Aerith herself, it still leaves a monumental impact on everyone else who can't see her. At a certain point, Cloud is going to have to break the news to Elmyra and Marlene. Marlene (who I think is implied to be part Cetra) might sense Aerith's presence, and try to communicate messages from Aerith to Elmyra. Elmyra might cook dinner for four: herself, Marlene, Cloud, and a fourth plate in memorial of Aerith. Aerith might sit down at the table, and weep that she's no longer able to taste her foster mother's cooking. The whole scene would be bittersweet yet cathartic, as everyone (Aerith included) really comes to terms with the new status quo.
There a lot that can be done with this plot, and I hope the third game explores its potential to the absolute fullest.
I think she may be an active party member to the player due to cloud still thinking she's alive which was would one hell of a treat then when he breaks she disappeared from the parry for a couple of chapters, but we all know she's gonna be there in the final battle.
Cloud isnt delusional, as in jenova cells in him arent manipulating him. Aerith is alive in one world and zack is alive in another. Cloud can view things the others cant, like when he directed where tongo when he saw the whispers go to the forgotten city. Plus in clouds fight with sephiroth, he interacts with zack and zack tells cloud to save aerith. My guess is Aerith is saved in zacks world but has to be dead in clouds real world
It feels like the writers are backing themselves into a corner. There are two things in writing is basically playing with fire: time travel, and multi-universes. Done right, the story can be a memorable work of art (like the first two Terminator movies and the Spiderverse movies). But there is so much danger of the plot becoming convoluted and boring due to lack of stakes. Not even Disney could pull off multiverses with all their powers and resources.
Judging from Square Enix's writers wanting to pull off fan-favorite scenes like Zack and Cloud teaming up on Sephiroth and Cloud finally blocking that fateful blow after 27 long years, they are in serious danger of messing up like the same way D&D messed up Game of Thrones. People love seeing awesome things, but those things have to be earned. Imagine if the writers had the guts to commit to a whole new story with Aerith unambiguously alive. Imagine the hype the players would have.
The recent “Easy Allies w/ Maximillian Dude” spoiler video ABSOLUTELY broke my brain, and made me entirely reevaluate the ending. I knew it was “Cloud’s denial/interpretation,” but the theories they presented…man, Square could be not only setting-up to fix a “disappointing” ending, but giving us one of the best twists/risks payoffs in entertainment history, if any of those theories play out 🙂☺️
Sephiroth is trying to bring every timeline branch together, and I think that’s why Zack and Cloud could fight together. As Sephiroth merged them closer, alternate timeline versions of themselves were able to come together to fight him. Every version of Aerith, due to being a Cetra and her affinity to the Lifestream, has some vague knowledge of each other and what is happening in their timeline.
As far as Cloud seeing and interacting with Aerith, I believe this is linked to him having the White materia, as it is also connected to the Cetra and the Lifestream. This is also due to being in an alternate timeline with her and being exposed to the tear in the sky, which is also why he is the only one who sees it in his timeline.
I think you're right about so much weight being put on Part 3 now. I remember with MGSV, Kojima said that fans who were questioning why the character Quiet wore so little clothing would be "ashamed of our words and deeds" when we found out the story reason. It ended up being some throwaway nonsense, and I worry that the team thinks mystery boxes and timelines are worth experiencing in themselves. That being said, I love absolutely everything else about Rebirth so I'm excited to see what comes next. I just hope that we get satisfactory answers as to what's going on!
I think the point of the spacey area where Cloud fights Sephiroth is to show his mental struggle with Sephiroth like in the original at the end.
In Remake he fights and loses against Sephiroth
In Rebirth he has friends (Zack and Aerith) to help him fight sephiroth off
In Re-whatever he will beat Sephiroth by himself just like OG
I feel like Aerith is still around in the same way she was "around" in Advent Children. She is still able to speak to Cloud and appear (if not briefly) via the lifestream.
In OG she dies, and she just...gone. In Rebirth she "dies" and then helps you fight the man that killed her...
I hate the ending. No water “burial” it didn’t allow players to even grieve for her. How can I grieve her when I’m fighting Sephiroth with her? 9/10 game but the ending would’ve made it a 10 for me.
If Doomguy was after you, you would also unkill Aerith.
There's Doomguy references through the whole story. Rabbits in portraits with daisies, Aerith "rip em off" to Corneo while holding her hands the same way as Doomguy. Finally, Cloud finds RED RUNES in the black materia chamber and puts it in his GIANT SWORD -- a crucible reference, although it was carefully hidden.
@@robertjones3489 wth are you on about...
Yeah they did this scene dirty. They just dont want to put characters like Aeris and Zack down because of the fan service.
Part 3 will 100% have Aerith and Zack join Cloud in fighting the EXACT same sephiroth model in the first 2 games smh. Even Zack said it himself "whos to say worlds cant merge again?". Its laughably predictable.
@@hayabusa09 I am the Prophet of Doom.
3/3/2020 - original Remake release date
3/20/2020 - Doom Eternal release date
THE STREETS WILL FLOW WITH THE BLOOD OF THE NONBELIEVERS.
As a new player who started with Remake and later on played the original, I have to say that I would’ve preferred a 1:1 retelling of the scene. The best way I can explain my issue is this way: you know that popular tips of storytelling where it is told the writers need to trim out the fat of their story to make it more effective? I feel like the whole Remake trilogy added more fat for people who already knew the original and wanted more content with these characters.
It’s not necessarily bad but often, I find that the strongest moment of Rebirth were the best and everything that was added (the whole multiverse thing, the wutai war etc…) just felt like some needless complications that would’ve been cut during editing if this was there first go-around. It just feels like bloat the themes of life and environmentalism the story seems to want to tell with convoluted MCU type multiverse narrative.
Fantastic analysis. Also in my opinion everything will make sense in the third part also considering how they narrated the story before chapter 14. For me the choice not to show that scene is due to the fact of manifesting it in all its power when Cloud faces reality and the truth about himself...and after seeing how this guy's mind is at the end of the game...Christ it's going to hurt.
So I actually subscribe to Max’s Jenova theory. Even if I were to subscribe to the multiple-timelines-Aerith theory though, I wouldn’t have a problem with it. I would have had a problem had Aerith been killed exactly like in the original, and I’m thankful the developers didn’t take that route or really listen to the irl whisper people who want them basically just to recreate the original with prettier graphics. Because it would be POINTLESS.
There would have been no emotional power behind killing Aerith exactly like in the original again in Rebirth. BECAUSE WE KNOW WHAT HAPPENS!
Even for people who played the OG, many will say that Aerith’s death scene wasn’t that emotionally resonant to them, because it was spoiled to hell and back because of how well known it was. It was a powerful scene, but it’s a scene that only works once. Seeing something like that again play out the exact same way again becomes a mere reenactment of it that, by nature, will always fail to live up to the original. And what’s the point of creating something like that? Why spend millions of dollars on art that transforms nothing and makes nothing new?
Instead, if we go by Max’s Jenova theory, the way they’ve done Aerith’s death expands the emotional death and turmoil of Cloud beyond the original! Cloud now has more depth and suffering to him. In fact, the Jenova theory makes Aerith’s death even darker I think.
So I’m all for these changes, even if it isn’t the Jenova theory and it’s just a Schrodinger’s cat thing.
Honestly the tone I got at the end was a sense of uneasiness. Not because of the ending but the deeper elements at play. The Aerith we see cloud talk to and acknowledge is in my mind a fabrication created from his messed up trauma and Genova cells. The line wear aerith asks cloud to promise to fight sephiroth is contradicting what she said when she was alive. While the ending has sweet music it’s actually a lot more sinister in context. Clouds mind is growing more unstable and tifa didn’t say a word to him at all in the end. I’m excited for the next game. Cause things are gonna pop off in an insane way.
The "promise?" line is a mistranslation, in Japanese, she replies to Cloud "I'm sure you will!". She also urges the party earlier in the game that they need to stop Sephiroth ASAP. The whole Arieth = Jenova is just Indoctrination Theory 2.0 IMO
@@koklusz89 yeah, but you missed the part that in Japanese, Cloud doesn't say he will stop Sephiroth, he says "倒す", that has a meaning of "to defeat" not to stop, often associated with physical violence or killing the target. He is basically saying "I'll kill Sephiroth" and Aerith sounds very excited about it. It feels odd.
@@koklusz89 even if it's not the case i have high hopes for the ending of part 3. Thats what's good about not knowing whats coming next, people can freely speculate.
@@danobra I think ""I will beat him" is the translation that makes most sense, I don't think Could would say that he will murderer Sephiroth, this is not an M rated game.
I mean why would she say “goodbye” at the end when no one else is around if it was just in his head. Or is his imagination just that powerful?lol
Can’t wait to see Rocket Town
Obviously we wont know until part 3 where cloud gets trapped in the Rachet and Clank timeline and has to steal the dimensionator to get back and fix everything by defeating all of the sephiroths and evil alternate aeriths alongside the good alternate sephiroths and doctor nefarious alongside banjo kazooie who has teamed up with zack.
Multi-dimensional Super AI Chadley will save us in the end. But only if you filled the bar in every zone
Couldn't have said it better myself. I was so overwhelmed trying to figure out what the hell was going on that the ending had no emotional impact on me at all, though I was able to put together what happened when it was over. This couldn't been better executed. They should've kept the iconic moment there and afterward messes around with all the timeline mumbo-jumbo. They lost that emotional affect with this one and somewhat fumbled the ending. They need to redo this entire section in DLC or something. The whole forgotten city could've been great, exploring centa lore, actually seeing Jenova come shapeshift into people's loved ones and infect them, leading to its sealing, the iconic forgotten city music, with death looming in the air, ending with Aerith being killed and lowered into the water. Imagine the emotional impact that could've had!
I find it hilarious how much this game ignored Zack and these "worlds" then decide to show it in your face like 5+ of these in the last two hours only to show it that they are rather meaningless
The scene where cloud sees Aerith, while everybody is sad, her darkened face for a moment, before the camera turns to her, gave me advent children goose bumps, i looked at her and she had that whole old movie look about her, her lips, reminded me of the scene where she walks into the lights with Zack, i felt the green tint she was always portrayed in. I feel like he lowered her into the water but he doesn't remember, everybody else does. We might rewatch that scene in the third part, because there's no way they ran out of budget and skipped it lol, everybody was expecting it and they cut ight to them sitting there, it's sus, they want us to play the third part.
some people want Aerith and Zack to be alive and some wants it to be the same as the OG. Now, Squex gave us both. and people still complaining. Zack and Aerith are both alive and dead now. 😂
As much as i love og ff7 the rebirth death scene when his sword switchs to her death that shit was clean asf
faxx that bait and switch was fire ngl
Here’s my take:
OG FF7 is my favorite game of all time. It was special for what it did and deserves its own place in history. Never wanted a remake because I’m happy with what I have in 97, it’s perfect. If you start recreating these things like this and do the same thing with the same beats, then your cheapening the original experience and diluting the impact of Aeriths death. Her death is special and deserves its own place in time, you keep recreating it and then it’s like “oh hey cool, it’s that scene.”
If we’re gonna cone back to this world I think it’s better to introduce new themes with new experiences. And they’re now introducing this “unknown journey” stuff into it which breaths excitement. With the introduction of the multiverse we can now say that the original is the “main canonical timeline” of the story, so let’s explore different themes and different avenues for new experiences.
Don’t dilute important moments, don’t dilute my Aeriths death just because you want to see it happen in modern graphics. Let it stand on its own pedestal in time, and let it be a special moment. Let this timeline send these characters off on the note they would want if they were actually alive, which they sort of are in some ways through our experiences.
I kind of agree, excited to see how the round out the themes of uncertainty, fate and fighting against it by the end of the trilogy. The fact we can theorise so much and be excited for what’s to come makes this special.
Preach bro. My thoughts exactly. Grew up poor and OG FF7 was 1 of 3 games i had so I played it countless times. Multiverse story changes are wack to me. OG FF7 storyline is canon; Remake and rebirth final chapters, ehh its cute
I agree, but the multiverse approach still sucks.
Added complexity to original plot devices and world building is great and they've done that. But FF7 OG was always my favorite, because it didn't do the hyper esoteric alternate reality and time travel stuff Square usually defaulted to. The plot wasn't driven by "the power of friendship and free will" either. It was a plot about hyper capitalism destroying the planet, most of the citizens being indoctrinated and manipulated and some resistance fighters trying to combat the power hungry. Sephiroth was a mutated super human that was half evil alien and influenced by it (as Cloud was), who felt betrayed after somewhat misinterpreting his and the planets history and fully embraced his evil alien side due to those occurances. Jenova was powerful, but was specifically said to not being able to enter the lifestream. Now I could kind of see them adding a way for Jenova to enter and influence the lifestream through Sephiroth (half human half alien), but that should've been it. The timeline crap and Sephiroth turning into an evil chronos super god (which for some reason Aerith suddenly has the ability to as well) is just stupid and takes away everything I liked about the OG plot, because it's a cheap plot device that also lowers the stakes and emotional investment as well as how relatable it is (it's not).
@@Luftgitarrenprofiart and entertainment speaks to some of us differently and everyone’s entitled to their personal feelings to it. The themes I highlighted is what reached out to me so that’s what I’m taking away from it. I guess if you read far enough into it you can take away political undertones but those weren’t really harped on in the story; as far as that stuff goes I always felt greed and corruption were more prevalent in the game but you can also get a lot of that in socialism too when leaders take over ( as they almost always do). I think a lot of ppl gravitate towards the darker undertones because of advent children but if you just play the original game it’s way more vibrant, upbeat, and goofy and that’s the source material I’m more grounded with. Personally I thought AC was trash cuz it ruined a lot of those brighter themes and made it way more dark and emo than it needed to be. It was never suppose to be about that.
I think the multiverse stuff gets a bad rap because it’s been ham fisted so much in main stream but all it is is just a plot tool for storytelling. I guess I’m ok with it because it’s different than the original which is what I ultimately want out of this story arc, something different.
@@theonecalledlamorak6446 What I'm saying is that OG FF7 was more grounded and less grand in the sense that other Final Fantasy games tend to be with their cosmic godlike figures that manipulate reality. It was what made it different to FF6 or FF8 and FF9 or even games like Strangers of Paradise or Kingdom Hearts. There was "magic", although it's explained through the lifestream and there were superhuman characters, but it never went the ridiculous route. Much like OG Dragonball compared to Super or even Z.
With Rebirth it's essentially complete abandoned that identity and yes, Advent Children already went more towards that theme as well. That was my problem with AC, not the darker theme.
Sephiroth for example, while incredibly strong in the original, was a nuanced, multifacetted character who was relatable as a human when he found out about the experiments when he realized he was "created in a lab", which is only partly true but he really believed he and Jenova were ancients. Past that Sephiroth was really just Jenova.
I think Rebirth has the best writing for all the main and side characters in this game, but Sephiroth became incredibly one-dimensional. They really did him dirty with the time travel, alternate reality crap that is never explained, like how Jenova/Sephiroth acquired that power or how it's even possible. It's very esoteric and lazily written. It's way too convoluted and has a large amount of plot holes that they leave so open to interpretation that they can just handwave it away.
While the multiverse hypothesis is somewhat intruiging, it should at least fit in the fictional world. And here it's just been inserted with zero origin or reference points. It's just suddenly there. And for some reason, many people just seem to accept this as presented without asking the question "wait a minute... why can Sephiroth and even Aerith suddenly influence different realities? Like... what!?"
People are casually throwing around "Omni Sephiroth" and "Omni Aerith" like it makes any sense for this concept to even be a thing.
And yes, the OG was very political and this game even moreso.
I'm kind of mad we didn't have the scene where Cloud lowers her into the water.
Just like remake I love and hate the ending of rebirth at the same time but it’s not because it’s bad but because I just hate that we have to wait 3-4 years to know the ending. They expanded the universe of FF7 so much with just this game and now I can’t wait to know the conclusion.
Waiting sucks. It's gonna be almost a full 12 years and almost 210 dollars for the full experience.
@@lunarkrueger3341 its weird of you to put price in when rebirth alone is incredibly longer than the original game
It's especially frustrating because basically no story happens at all the entire game. You're just following the robes, looking for sephiroth. Then after 50+ hours when you finally finish the game and expect a bit of story, it's just more ambiguous timeline bullshit and "hey don't forget to buy part 3 in 10 years if you want any of this to mean anything".
Its bad. They left us with very little to discuss. Is aerith alive or dead for 4 more years. Dull people just drool over anything with pretty graphics
carrot on a stick design
its not worth it
One possible theory I kinda like is that, since Red XIII mentioned finding another way to help the Gi tribe, and there is a world that is apparently on the verge of ending, so I could see them finding or trying to find a way to hel pthe Gi tribe onto this doomed version of the planet so they can have their deliverance from their cursed existence while saving others who, well, want to be saved.
The use of "worlds" feels, again feels, like a metaphor for the dead, in which each living being that passes creates their own afterlife "world" before shedding their sense of identity/ego and ultimately ending/melding into the Lifestream.
Night sky king should make a vid called "its pretty simple" and show the million different theories people say after they say that lol
It’s so confusing because we the player are in clouds mind. He still thinks he was in soldier still thinks he’s a hero so Aereith is dead but Clouds mind fractures so he thinks he saved her, but we know he didn’t.
Just thought I'd point out in remake the 7 seconds line was referred to as 7 seconds before "the end of the world" based on a description or something and chapter 14 in rebirth is called "end of the world" yet no-one I've seen has mentioned it or seemed to notice.
This is true, they confirmed it in the Remake Ultimania
I totally I agree with the idea of not knowing what we were supposed to feel. With all the weird confusing stuff going on I wasn't even sure exactly what had happened or what it was going to mean so I just kinda felt nothing. I highly doubt that was the goal.
Im still gutted we didn't get a faithful remaster of "listen to the cries of the planet" at the end. I remember getting to the city of the ancients in OG and that track really resonated with the motif of mystery and mourning, especially when we bring the key back. It sorta hits differently after she's gone and come back.
I feel your pain. I wanted a faithful remake of that song and Birth of a God (Bizzaro Sephiroth's theme) but hopefully they are coming in Three-make? 😔
I was waiting for this. Most powerful track of the entire game. Should have been ominous and haunting as soon as you saw the capital. But in fairness, they used it in the background of the scene just before this where Sephiroth shows Cloud all the differing timelines and Cloud says the planet is screaming. It was effective in this scene... But I really wanted it playing leading up to the alter. I will for sure be patching it into the PC version.
It plays in Temple of the Ancients also in Ch 13
I think we can all agree that adding in a multiversal element into a narrative just invites more trouble with storytelling down the line.
I didn't mind that the changed the story up a bit in remake/rebirth in order to keep it fresh and seperate it from the original.
But holy fck was what they came up with bad.
Its baffling to me how they got things so right on some stuff while getting things so wrong on others.
The ending was the definition of "have your cake and eat it too." I loved that I was on the edge of my seat in that last chapter
On the "why multiple worlds, it hasn't really changed anything yet"...the fact we actually have a not blank/clear White Materia for Aerith to use for Holy is one massive way it has changed things already. Now what the empty White Materia will do in the future, I have no idea about. But Seph's plan to use the Whispers to rob Aerith of memories that made the White materia...well, White was countered by Aerith getting a functioning one from another of the worlds.
Great video Ryan
I don't think the multiverse is there to change much, i think its a plot device used to explain potential differences between the trilogy and OG while also giving us enough reasonable doubt and openings for a surprise or 2, like Aerith outplaying Sephiroth by giving Cloud the White Materia in another timeline. I can't know everything about where this is going but overall I enjoyed the ending.
As an OG FF7 player from 97 I get why they wanna mess with everyone and complicate stuff to make us talk for a couple of years about "theories" and buy the next game but not a big fan of this. too complicated that 90% of people don't get what is going on. I never had that around FF7 as a kid.
A game isn't well written or "deep" just because people are clueless and can only speculate what is going on all the time.
What do you mean? You can totally miss HUGE story cues in the original. Like every secret in shinra mansion?
@@pneuma6421ye but it is easy to understand when you see it
I played ff7 in 97 when I was 13. Was so mad at AC because while doing a sequel they retconed Aerith, Zack and Cloud. In CC also we have a retcon of them. Remake seemed dial those down except Zack. But it also changes the story and is a sequel.
My final though is whatever. Just do a good game. It isn't really in line with og anyway. So in my headcannon afyer og everything is a non cannon spin off. Like when ppl say Cloud or Aerith don't love eachother.
I want to know why the Aerith that fights Sephiroth alongside Cloud in the last battle is so much more powerful! Theres got to be a narrative reason for that, right???
The ending is not so bad if you really understand it, like it or not its multiverse now, they broke the fate in the end of Remake remember? so now decisions can create new timeline and new worlds, there is a timeline where Arieth lives Cloud blocked the killing blow, and there is the OG timeline where Arieth is apparently dead, just like the Loki TV show, there is a sacred timeline, which is the OG timeline here, Sephiroth is trying to consolidate all of the timelines into one sacred timeline and rule it, and this timeline is close to the OG one.
BY doing this you can say developer undermined the devastating impact of Arieth's death or you can say they echoed many fans requests and left us a glimpse of hope.
BTW its still quite emotional to go on a date with Arieth and witness her inevitable demise later on in that timeline and her OG timeline, but we were left with Hope, I couldn't describe the feeling when I saw Arieth joined Cloud's final fight with Sephiroth, its impactful.
It always felt so wrong to me that Cloud handled her death so easily in the OG so I'm glad it's presented like he is in denial. It is much more realistic than “Oh it is sad I wanna go get Sephiroth.” He is so In denial that it feels wrong but I think that's exactly the point.
But he's not in denial. He only sees the timeline in which she's alive. Cloud really didn't lose Aerith. Cloud, and the player by extension, is spared the loss.
He will loose her when he wont see other timelines.
Well that's why advent children exists
@@yesno5688 AC is a retcon. Cloud said in og he will see Aerith in the promised land and he feels her. Before that he is either sick or trying to work things out and only there he should be grieving.
Exactly. They did it like that in the original to realize (if I remember correctly) Sakaguchi-san’s vision of an unglamorous and realistic death inspired by the death of his mother. Here, if we subscribe to Max’s theory that Cloud initially hallucinated saving Aerith and then Sephiroth plays along and manipulates him via a Jenova Aerith, it’s not the same as Sakaguchi’s vision (which I don’t believe works more than once). But it is just as, if not more, true to Cloud’s character and mental anguish, and frankly it may even be darker.
nothing was said in this vid
This is just my speculation, and I believe that the developers intentionally lessen the impact of Aerith's death in Rebirth, and gamble by having another emotional scene that will have the potential on exceeding the OGs Aerith death on the 3rd game. I speculate this because if you think about it, Aerith's death is an iconic scene in the video game industry and most gamers already know it. It just wont have the same impact no matter what they do so knowing that, they took the risk. The development team clearly has lot of ambition on these trilogy, and they will do their best to exceed the OG but careful on not destroying its legacy. This is also why I think this is really a sequel because by making it a sequel, FF7 OG still happens and so they are not invalidating it.
Aerith death in Rebirth is similar to Zack in original. They will go to another multiverse. I thought Part3 is about reunited every world so it is quite likely to have both back.
The first thing we see is Cloud parries. Then we see Sephiroth with blood. Then we see Cloud with blood...then Cloud with no blood...Aerith silent, Aerith speaking. Aerith joining Cloud by herself for the final round against Sephiroth. Suffice to say, I don't think they wrote Brianna White a pink slip and told her she's fired.
I’m almost positive there will be a scene in the third game where cloud is alone fighting enemies but aerith is “there” to help him, having a mission where it’s the duo. Think black ops where you see reznov and he actually shoots at enemies, but obviously is dead
I'd love if they pulled this for the whole game. Like, she's still in the party, but the rest of the party doesn't know. So we get Cloud throwing potions at nothing, thanking thin air for healing him, etc. Meanwhile the rest of the party is being freaked out as they're being healed by potions thrown from nowhere.
I agree with the love and hate this ending gets. So much happens that it’s kinda led you numb or gives you a sense of “I win?”
Which thin possibly the point. Remember we are seeing this mostly through cloud’s point of view. What has happened to him? Well on top of having amnesia, mind controlled by sephiroth, self-hate issues, he has been literally brought into different worlds, sees his role model Zack alive for a moment, fight jeniva and sephiroth, saw aerith alive multiple times, the guy is INSANELY messed up. I mean this worse. Not only is he still under sephortoh’s contorl, he might actually be even more so, and he believes aerith is alive. Even if he isn’t incorrect on aerith , he isn’t reacting properly.
In that sense, cloud is no to not overwhelmed but delusional which is what we the players are. Whether or not that’s a good storytelling idea I have idea.
But let’s also reflect n this. The ff7 remake is UNPRECEDENTED. There have been remakes or reboots but nothing quite like this. The closest we got was Star trek 2009 but unlike that movie, there seems to be a INTENTIONAL desire to make the ff7 remake its spin on the story by combining everything in the ff7 universe. Star Trek 2009 has fizzled out but this remake is still getting us to say “wait what happens?” While newer fans are getting hooked on a franchise that may have seemed intimidating. Bask it in ff fans, this may not happen at all again. .
Saved this in my to watch for a while, finished the game and came back.
How they handled many scenes near the end really soured it for me, it was a rollercoaster of "they're effing up" and "oh no they're not effing up" ending in a shitstorm.
My biggest issue being Cloud's goofy stoner smile, making her loss lose a lot of weight as it's been stated by others as well.
If this was the final game and we had no thirt one coming i would hate the ending but knowing it will resolve later the end of FF rebirth might be a sleeper
I feel like all the multiverse stuff doesn't do anything except dilute the main plot. I also did not like Aeris coming back after death to fight one last time. The impact of the moment was completely taken away.
I also think that in part 3 we could see Cloud and Tifa separated from the party and fight Sephiroth together alone and have it be Cloud and Tifa working together to defeat Sephiroth (in the lifestream) after Cloud’s mind is restored.
Well, I mean, even on top of everything you mentioned with the multiverse and what we do know will happened and what they’re going to pack into part 3 is the direction they’re even going to go with Deepground.
I think its a Cloud not processing/accepting her death situation amd is being unknowingly Haunted and/or Manipulated by this "Aerith" and he has to let go sorta deal.
Basically a Spiderverse Cannon in a nutshell.
Cloud is pretty strong right and it takes a strong man to deny wants right in front of Him.
If you get that reference you're amazing.
The new story makes sense when you think about advent children. Zack and aerith show up, and only Cloud can see them just like the ending of rebirth. I believe that Zack is the Zack we are experiencing in the game and that Aerith is the Aerith Cloud saved in advent children. The 3rd installment may tie it all together.
I know it's not Square Enix's style, but I wish they'd pull a full BG3, and put dialog options (that are *obvious* choices) throughout the 3rd game, leading to multiple endings, and not just surrounding Aerith
I think he still sees her because he's got jenova cells mixed in with Zack's memories.. and in Zack timeline Aerith is still alive so he sees her being alive still because he is connected with Zack in some kind of weird timeline split kind of way almost like Zack is his Corsican brother😅
People seem to be missing the point of what Square did here in this remake. 25+ years ago, we experienced the tragedy of the main heroine of the game we were playing dying 2/3s through the story. We'd grown to love this character and it hit us losing her and the fact that a heroine could actually die like this not even at the end of the story.
That feeling has left its mark on anyone who played the original game.
Now with the remake, Square setup this narrative of fate being possible to change, that we could change important events, which both lead to the fearful possibility of Sephiroth winning in the end, or us saving Aerith, because fate has been altered and shifted around, creating this scenario in our heads what if we COULD save her?
And in the end it left us with an unanswered question if we did save her, if fate altered things somehow, but also lets others believe it didn't, leaving the a mystery if fate can still be altered.
Thats the point of the story here now.
If they really wanted the hammer home the point, then they'd let us, the players, change the outcome of the story, through our actions. Not typical of JRPGs compared to WRPGs, I know, but maybe it's time that changed.
Clear point 😅
"Thats the point of the story here now." And frankly it's garbage.
SquareEnix did to take Aerith fans' money. Occam's Razor....
SquareEnix did to take Aerith fans' money. Occam's Razor....
I have a funny feeling they just might make it all go "back to the original ending" in part 3. And maybe the convoluted Worlds plot is a new way to show Cloud's craziness and that Zack is actually fighting in the Lifestream, with Aerith, like in the books and Advent Children.
But who knows, am I right? Hahaha
Aerith is the "good sephiroth" now technically.
She can do what he does.
Has white whispers.
This kinda sets me up to believe, that she could manifest more, just like sephiroth but maybe lacks the power to do so. Cuz Sephi had help from Hojo, which implanted Jenova cells in Soldiers, creating "points of entrance" for him.
And she only has Cloud atm, but Nanaki seems to be the next one in line
You nailed it. A convoluted mess of an ending that confuses the player seeing it all for the first time.
I think your take is a reasonable one. The timeline stuff is intriguing but it remains to be seen whether it justifies the added complexity. On the one hand, the confusion of the ending robs us of the grief of Aerith’s death; on the other, it places the player in the shoes of a Cloud who is in denial. The alternate timelines do play some roles: they expand the stage of the conflict to an even greater scale, and through the death of Biggs the alternate Zack timeline provide one of multiple examples of how seeking revenge isn’t the way forward (highlighting Aerith’s message to the party at the Temple of the Ancients). But that doesn’t seem like quite enough, yet.
Maybe the most important narrative function is to provide players with a futile hope that we can get Aerith back somehow, that she can somehow be reunited with Cloud and the party. Clearly Cloud believes she is already alive again at the end of the game, and ignores the obvious signs of grief from his party, and presumably has blocked out the memories of having laid her to rest. By leaving that room for doubt, I think they’re going to try to break our hearts later with the realization that the Aerith we came to know is really gone, for good. If that happens, I’m not quite sure it will have the same emotional impact as a definitive death and burial scene in Rebirth would have, though.
Clouds being manipulated by Jenova. Aerith is dead. He refuses to see it, just like he did with Zach. Sephiroth literally tells him "You'll never see the truth with such clouded eyes" This will most likely all be revealed by Tifa when she finds Cloud in the Lifestream and helps him face the truth about Zach and now Aerith. I think that's when we will see Cloud laying Aerith to rest as he comes to terms. We are seeing this through Cloud who is an extremally unreliable narrator.
(Adding this for extra context, Aerith does still exist, but I don’t think it’s in another time line, I believe as a spirit in the Lifestream, look at the final fight with Sephiroth, after it’s over what happens to Aerith? Her body disappears the same way everything else does when it returns to the Lifestream)
agreed
We already have that whole reveal about Zack becoming clear in part 3. We didn't need Cloud failing to process Aerith 's death as well tbh. Especially when doing so results in utter confusion for the viewer as to whether Aerith is dead, force ghosting etc, and it also robbed us of the iconic water burial scene.
@@kenmasters1803Water burial will happen in part 3 and I also think they will show the full death scene again since we didn't hear Cloud's speech either but they alluded to it.
@@kenmasters1803 we weren’t robbed. We / Cloud just haven’t seen the scene yet.
i disagree. There's no payoff for the audience if we know Cloud is being manipulated and Aerith has WAY too much agency to be just a Jenovah hallucination. My money is it's 1 of 2 things:
1. Force Ghost (which I initially thought it was but the more I watched the more I felt the evidence was shying away from
2. Aerith is Dead/Alive due to a split timeline with Cloud seemingly experiencing the lived timeline events during her death, and now perceive both (although it is admittedly unclear if CLOUD realizes this is what's happening and THAT may be the reason for this mental decline in the 3rd game. It just makes more sense given the plethora of S*%#$ we saw with Zack in the earlier chapter. There's no reason to show the audience that without it being relevant in some way.
What I'm wondering now is which Zack we saw at the end of the Yuffie DLC where he goes to the church. I assumed, based on the Rebirth trailers, that after Zack throws Cloud over to Kyrie, that he headed over to the church, where he saw everyone gathered crying and the flowers dying. But is that Zack even from the Terrier timeline, or some other timeline? I can't tell when he might have had time to go to the church in the Terrier timeline. And now at the end of Rebirth, he's sitting in the church, but the flowers are perfectly healthy. Which timeline is that? It can't be the Terrier one, where all the flowers were wilted. Was he maybe thrown into the Beagle timeline, or some completely different timeline?
I just watched the insider eposides and the part they talked about Zack and his impact on story was really interesting. They said they want to introduce planet as a character in the story and Zack is key to that goal. When we asses white whipsers it is explained they are agents of the planet. I think they are drawing a line separating the Planet, life stream and aerith
The real tragedy of the ending that I haven't seen anybody talk about is the fact that they really gave us Bizzaro Sephiroth and, instead of a really cool and solid version of "Birth of a God" they gave us, "One-Winged Angel Again but Worse this Time"
If we don't fight him again in Part 3 (which seems unlikely as that would just be kinda weird to throw him at the end of Rebirth and then again right before the final boss of part 3 like it happened in the original) and we don't get this song, I will be really upset. Same with the final Jenova fight. Please don't just give us Jenova again, I love the final fight theme with Jenova. :(
I refuse to think Aerith is Jenova 🤡🗿
It would be a dope twist but also seems like it’s a bit of a reach.
Especially since the CG cutscenes always look a little uncanny at least when it comes to Aerith.
@@torchlight1785Isn’t everything that is already in the story a bit of a reach also so I wouldn’t put it past them to do something like that
@@DavidZMHWell the only evidence I’ve heard for the Aerith being Jenova is the scene at the pool and the CG ending. Both of which are weird but again not a smoking gun.
Oh, a Cloud i see. :)
Same its WAYY too much of a strech. I think its much less complex than people are making it out to be.
I just finished playing final fantasy 7 rebirth not too long ago! What an amazing experience! I loved every minute. I think the third game in this remake trilogy will be called final fantasy 7 reunion. Despite the fact we already have crisis core final fantasy 7 reunion that came out in 2022. I mean the word “reunion” is hinted at so heavily.
I don’t get all the theories. It’s pretty simple to me. It’s the original story with added flair. It’s not multiversal or timelines. To borrow from another property, “time is a flat circle,” the livestream itself is a melting pot of all the memories false or otherwise of the planet and everyone on it. The planet remembers and connects to the unreliable narrations of everyone. Cloud dreams of an outcome where Zack & Aerith are alive, so the planet feeds that dream to motivate him to make it so. We’re seeing Jenova/Sephiroth manipulating this in order to control the outcomes. Or so they think they are… In the end the planet will win as it always has done since it has been pulling the strings all along. The planet will do what it must to survive - the main theme of the game. Cloud is a puppet, Sephiroth is a puppet. They are all puppets.
This is kinda whats been happening with the retrilogy. Many will say “actually its really simple” then give me an entirely different explanation each time lol. Also if this was the case, then there are better ways to communicate everything you mentioned
I wonder if, when modding these games becomes easier many, many years from now, someone would be able to stitch together pieces of the trilogy to make a faithful remake. Really hope we get Cloud's speech/Aerith's funeral in part 3 to let that happen lol
It’s funny to see how so many people wanted this scene, in an obvious sequel to the original, to play out the exact same way as the original.
at first i was agitated that we didn't get to explore or do anything at all in the forgotten capital, but then i remember that you have to go back there with the Key of the Ancients in the 3rd part of the game and now im excited to see where they take this story. As for the Aerith bit. Honestly the mental flashes happened all the time back in OG, just now they are giving us context as to what those flashes are. Aerith as well, was seen in her church and the end of FF7 as a ghost or alive, depending on how you want to look at it. So its not really out of the realm of possibility that those things aren't the same as what we have seen here. but over all. after completing everything. This by far was my favorite game and I couldn't be more happy with how they ended it.
It was a bit weird because i went into this game saying "You better not change the death of Aerith" to me saying "OMFG you better save her!", at one point I felt myself hoping that she was to be saved this time. I think that was the biggest take away for me. if SE did anything for me, it made me realize that all this time, even though i knew she had to die, i was praying and holding out some kind of deep longing for her to live. Thanks SE for pointing out something i never knew about myself.
Really loved how batshit insane things got. I am all for mixing things up. Expected Cloud to have some form of clarity at the end of the game and instead he has gone completely off the deep end. His character development, in my opinion, was the best in the game.
Something I don't understand is how/why Stamp is different in each timeline. Especially since a lot of the branches should be happening a point in time where it wouldn't make sense for Stamp to be a different breed because of it. Maybe I'm just being nitpicky lol
It's just so people can differentiate between 'timelines'. You need something otherwise nobody would have a clue what timeline they are looking at at any given time.
@@nathanking5137 I get why they did it, but I kinda wish they found a better way to do it.
Thank you Nightsky. This is what my main gripe is ' what has been the purpose of the multi-timelines / metaversus. So far, it has not reallky made any impact to the main story. If they removed all the whispers - what would the difference be? It would be less convoluted, but it would still end up with the same outcomes. I think thye just needed to expand the universe and add extra story elements (The Gi backstory was great).
I still love this game and hope that it will all pan out with the release of the final entry, but I am really starting to get scared that Nomura and Nojima are gonna stumble at the finish line and this will all amount to essentially an Abrhams-style mystery box (something full of fan-service and self-indulgence rather than actual narrative substance).
There is no "Zack Lives Timeline" though. at least not a meaningful one (maybe part 3 will change that)
In every universe where Zack lived, Cloud never woke up from the shock, didn't have a memory mimic of Zack's personality to substitute Clouds fractured pscyhe.
With Cloud staying in a coma, he never gets hired by the splinter cell, doesn't meet Tifa and Barret and so the party doesn't go on their journey and Sephiroth wins.
At least that was my take at every Zack universe having the yellow tear in the sky with everyone having a knowing feeling that the world is ending.
Cloud also being in full puppet mode at the end means he's experiencing a reality where Sephiroth wins, which could be why he's also seeing a tear in the sky.
I genuinely think Rebirth makes her death just as impactful as the OG. I just really wish we could see the burial scene but I have a feeling they are saving it for part 3 when cloud isn’t delusional. Not great they don’t show it in the game it should be in but I think they want aerith to be just as important in part 3. And I don’t understand people saying it’s not clear if she’s dead. But it’s like pretty fucking obvious she’s either a delusion or a life stream spirit or something?
Remake series is fantastic outaide of the complete fumble of the Aerith death
That being said, Zack and Cloud fighting Sephiroth together made me forgive them and literally every other flaw, 10/10
It was explained that when fate is defied, worlds are created. In remake, it was done when the party entered the barrier and fought the arbiter.
I think people are misunderstanding that "cloud blocked sephiroth's masamune" was the fate defiance in rebirth. No. The moment he defied fate was when he entered the barrier that was opened by the party. When cloud entered, another world was created: one when aerith lives. ONLY CLOUD ENTERED THAT BARRIER, the rest of the party followed cloud after the barrier was gone. This is why only cloud can see aerith alive after the merging, while the rest can see the original timeline, where aerith is dead.
Why was zack still in a separate world? It's because sephiroth slashed him off during their fight in the edge of creation. Zack's goal in part 3 would probably to unite his world to the merged timeline.
Also, remember that created worlds are bound to end no matter how persistent they are. It means the world where aerith lives will still end. The world where zack lives will also end. As to when it would end? I think it will end during the ending of advent children, when aerith and zack bid farewell to cloud. Remember that cloud has been talking to aerith the entire AC, zack also appeared as a wolf. So aerith's and zack's timelines are still persisting till ac.
If you look closely, Sephiroth landed not exactly on above Aerith. You can see when Cloud is parrying Sephiroth's attack.