Sorry for the light clickbaiting!! I hope you don’t mind I deceived you into having a much deeper conversation than normal - and as always I’m very interested in knowing your thoughts on this as well, I’ll be reading this comments thoroughly!
I wonder if you'll make an update to this video in light of the recent Tana allegations. I feel like it opens up a greater conversation of how people seem to care a lot less about SA allegations when the woman in question is know to be "provocative" and the guy is seen as a "good guy". It's so frustrating and I feel awful for Tana
Even if Tana has f*ed up before it doesnt invalidate her traumatizing experience of being taken advantage of by an older guy she looked up to. A perfect victim doesnt exist and its truly disturbing to see people repeat behaviours to stand behind mens disgusting behavior again and again.
Lol tana is a loser, imagine feeling bad for a bigot who got cancelled and tried to sleep her way to the top of game, from cody ko all the over to lil pump, shes a typical 304 who had her reputation ruined and now wants to take others down with her, its embarrassing honestly.
@@matket5192 Considering she was only 17 when it happened I'd argue people should be even more on her side for innocence because despite her agreeing to the actions I daresay she had barely begun to unpack or acknowledge any trauma that might've led her to believe sleeping with a 25yr old was normal at that age and this event would've contributed to the snowball of traumas and further messy behaviour down the road before she started to realise she needed help. Messy people are often deeply traumatised and vulnerable people
@@siennz7127 from my experience when people would talk about it over the yrs the comments would get buried by people harassing people who brought it up and or the comments would get deleted
@@kerri6011 if the mods in his reddit sub were anything to go by... its like they all got on their pc's at the same time and were deleting posts as they went up. Insane.
Danny Gonzales had a good take on the Tate situation, essentially calling him pathetic, embarrassing and dangerous. It's not hard to make a simple stance on a sex trafficking misogynist who has so much influence.
I would think being Anti Tate implies that you give a damn about him, and that is also detrimental. The dude feed off of attention, specially bad attention. You say you hate him, he will say to his followers "see? People hate me because they want to shut me up cuz I'm right" and they will believe it.
@@LunaWitcherArt when someone like Tate influences plenty of young boys to be misogynistic and delusional, while simultaneously being accused of human trafficking, then they are absolutely worthy of being disliked. I understand your comment somewhat, he does not deserve any attention, but Cody and Noel specifically brought him up. If they wanted to avoid discourse about him they would not talk about him at all. The fact that they brought him up is enough to make that entire point irrelevant. If they bring attention to him, why not voice their distaste for him?
@@claire-fd7kq you can dislike smth/someone and not be anti. Anti means you are preaching that thing/person is garbage, for anyone who does and doesn't want to listen. To me, they brought him up to justify not talking about him. After all, this is the internet and not talking about a hot topic will definitely be understood as you disagreeing with the current bandwagon. They were basically "damned if you do, damned if you don't". If they never addressed it, they're on Tate's side. If they try to address it without making him a big deal or threat or even interesting, to avoid giving him MORE attention and followers, they are being nonchalant because they agree with him.
Andrew is an example of an objectively bad person, and I don’t understand how people can be “neutral” or in support of these bad people thereis no discussion about him maybe being an okay person. he has shown multiple times that he is a bad person. and Cody and Noel ignoring or being neutral about andrew is a sign of privilege because they will never be hurt by a man like andrew. (I’m sorry if this doesnt make sense my brain is still trying to wrap around all this i just needed to let my brain ramble)
People close to me in real life are 'neutral ' about tate and it hurts so fucking much. I wish men realised how much it harms the women in their life when they treat misogyny like just another opinion deserving of respect
exactly. like he literally moved to romaina because the metoo movement wasn’t as big there, and that the law there isn’t great. and to get away for his sexual assault & HUMAN TRAFFICKING allegations. human trafficking. and people still like him
100% agree. While I am not a woman, I am apart of a minority group that is rather vulnerable to sexual assault ( typically at the hands of men, not always. ) and it bothers me that a lot of people feel like it’s not a “big problem” or “just an internet problem”. While Andrew Tate himself is a horrible fucking person, he represents a ideology of harming minorities, especially women and generally hateful and violent behavior. That is my personal opinion of course, I just think that his words and platform and people like him are harmful, to women, to young impressionable boys who could hurt MORE WOMEN. And it just hurts everyone.
@@ss-hc7tb dude… so a) how would you even know this if you hadn’t watched him (Jesus Christ do not give views to that man!!) and b) who the fuck cares?? He’s objectively terrible, shows no inclination to change and shouldn’t be listened to at all!!!?
I understand not wanting to platform or give him more attention but it’s gotta be said - it’s frustrating that women are the ones always fighting in these spaces to be respected. If men did more to call out their peers then it wouldn’t fall on women so much and casual sexism wouldn’t go so unchecked. Can’t help but think that these men are more likely to listen to other men than women.
Yes! All of these commentary youtubers seem to sometimes treat these kinds of people as a fleeting topic to just lightly clown on and then move on. It’s so frustrating and it scares me that our generation and the next generation of girls and fem people are going to have to deal with the actual consequences of these people, meanwhile the men can just go on with their lives and say ignorant shit like ”who cares about Andrew Tate?”. Ofc you wouldn’t care when it doesn’t affect you… 😞
On the slightly positive side, Tate in particular has gotten a lot of widespread attention from all genders from what I've seen. I think the first time I heard about Tate was in a Danny Gonzalez video and he pointed out that his whole "business model" sounded like trafficking pretty early on. A great, more in depth series of videos about the rise in this type of content are "Dissecting the Manosphere" and "Connecting the Manosphere" by F.D. Signifier. They are very well-done and provides a really comprehensive look at this phenonmen. There has clearly been a massive spike in this manosphere content lately and it is very alarming. The more creators who call it out, the better. We're in the midst of another backlash to feminsim and it is scary.
We can _try_ to ignore Tate himself (we shouldn’t), but his crimes, his attitude, and his impact on young men HAS to be talked about. Men with Tate’s attitude existed forever, but Tate is extremely loud about it, and he’s fucking everywhere. There’s going to be even more of them because most of his fans can’t be older than 18. Not to say that minors are just idiots; they just want to think for themselves, yet a lot of them don’t have the experience required to truly form their own ideas. In order to get a grip on the world, they’re forced to turn to older people (parents, teachers, friends, and *especially* online creators), which puts them in a unique position for manipulation. Tate loves the attention, but we can’t just ignore him because it’s spreading to young people. The fact that so many people are dismissive of the fact that he has (_allegedly_) assaulted multiple women is testament.
@@Vanessa-vz5cw I am nonbinary, I am disabled and neurodivergent, I am recovering from a terrible illness so that whenever im ready I will be a voice, be a presence, everything to say when I get there! I'm so tired of toxic manosphere. FD signifier is amazing, I like Noah Samsen too, I try to find men I trust to watch instead, and someday I'll be a person speaking too
@@Vanessa-vz5cw I really enjoy FD Signifier's videos, so I'm happy to see people also looking into his content. He really clarifies the thoughts I've been having for some time now.
I had NO idea this was going on, I stopped watching Cody a while ago and only watch Kelsey’s vlogs. I find it interesting that they went so hard criticizing Girl Defined for a similar view as Andrew Tate (women aren’t equal to men and belong in the kitchen, etc.), yet they won’t criticize him. Girl Defined was less extreme too. Is it worry over overlapping audiences?
The GD video also rubbed me the wrong way. Idk I'd need to watch it again, I saw it maybe 2-3 months ago, but it was pretty "sexually immature." At the time thinking "this is borderline iffy, kinda sexist/inappropriate?" I prob should watch it again b4 commenting but I also wanna see if anyone sees/feels the same way? Was I projecting "it's not so bad" then, and now projecting "that's so sus?" Idk its interesting.
Me trying to pull the video out of my memory: iirc the jokes were "GD dont want to have sex..... but they should have sex!" And then they made sexual jokes of the GD girls like.... I get it, it is extreme to tell girls "crushing on boys and having strong sexual feelings is sinful," but the opposite of that and forcing sex on someone who doesn't want it isn't good either. :/ Maybe I'll watch it tomorrow and see what I think then. I'd do it now but its time to sleep. I want to record (to the best of my ability) what I thought/felt before this drama tho. Edit: grammar, wow I was sleepy last night hahaha. I'm gonna watch the video and just make another edit to this comment.
Me not having a twitter or a tiktok account and absolutely only finding out about any drama through your videos where you already have them all wrapped up in a constructive and nuanced conversation mwah thanks duncan
always my thought too. like duncan is the person who takes all the jumbled nuance of these situations and breaks them down so well, and i’m glad i often first hear this drama stuff from him and not from twitter people, who are often so black and white with their takes.
Former Cody fan here: One of the more serious things about Cody that really turned me off from him was his affiliation with Colby Leachman. There's a whole saga there, but basically: Colby r*p*d a girl while him and Cody were at Duke together. Cody used to have him in some of his earlier videos from when he used to do vlogs on his channel. It's one of those things where it's pretty clear that Cody knows about it, but refuses to acknowledge it. Even though he hasn't had him on the channel in awhile, about once a year or so, there will be a random picture on social media of them on vacation together so it's clear that Cody still willingly associates with him. There's a subreddit (CodyKoUnfiltered) that's mostly ex-fans calling out some of the more problematic things he's done
If you read the court documents, it says that Colby's frat brothers were questioned about what happened because many of them saw the video he took while assaulting his victim. There is absolutely zero chance that Cody doesn't know his friend is a r@pist.
Since finding out about this a while ago, I haven't been able to watch his stuff. The details of the story get more disturbing the more you read about it. I'm not sure how Cody justifies their friendship, mostly because he refuses to acknowledge it.
I don’t know if no one is talking about this because they don’t know or because they’re too scared to talk about it. I hope Duncan does because I feel like no one else will.
what i find peculiar is that these kind of commentary men are so quick to make fun of controversial women but can’t blatantly say that they don’t support a prominent misogynist ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@@MT-mq9rs girl defined, classical Abby, that one Ben Shapiro copy with the cat ear headphones I do not like them at all but you can see that some of them have a problem with saying "I'm against this misogynistic man" when they do not have a problem with saying "I'm against this misogynistic women"
I mean, I can’t think of any other examples besides Cody or Noel, but I never really thought about that before 😕 I’ve never been a huge fan, but the only reason I watch him a lot less than other channels is because sometimes his comedy is a bit too gross for me lmao
@@mooiioo8094 Quenton Reviews, CJ the x, James Sommerton, Yhara zaid, ladyknightthebrave, Shanspeare, Theresa Jordan, Salem Tovar, Renegade Cut. I could honestly go on forever
adding on to the channel recommendations here. lindsay ellis isn’t making videos anymore but her channel is still up and still has some great stuff. for more political ones i’m gonna suggest some specific videos. shaun’s harry potter critique is really great imo it dives into a lot of issues that were already in the series that weren’t really talked about from someone reading it for the first time post jk rowling is transphobic realization (loosely connected to the video topic lol). contrapoints has a lot of good videos but one of my favorites is the cringe one. (also loosely connected to the video because cody ko got popular for his videos about cringe lol) and backing up the sarah z suggestion one of my favorite videos from her is “idiocracy is not a documentary” it’s heavily affected the way i talk about politics edit: new recommendations: verilybitchie and mia mulder. mia’s got a really interesting video about maps that i enjoy and another one about drugs that’s pretty good. verilybitchie has a great video about copyright laws which i think is cool and just uploaded a new one about s/x work which was super informative. go watch it
I find it hilarious how they'll rip into harmful rhetorics that comes from channels like Girl Defined but they won't put someone like Andrew Tate in his place. Why? I think they're kinda scared in my opinion.
I think it’s exactly that. They’ve usually gone at people who are more being weird on the internet than being hateful. They’re not the type to stir up drama like that
I do disagree a bit about taking up past actions. Yes, you shouldn't compile ammo on a person just to use it when that person is getting "canceled", but I do very much think that current actions can give new context to old ones
precisely. if theres a pattern of behavior, its important to examine where it came from. its not always the case in people whove genuinely changed, but completely being against examining peoples past mistakes in context of their current ones is just unhelpful
It's important to consider that people ARE angry about these things when they happen. Social media just didn't catch on and boost the topic at the most "appropriate" time. Scandals or whatnot don't get a mulligan just because it didn't trend when they happened. People HAD been shouting Shane Dawson's problems for years, but it didn't catch until there was already an avalanche. If someone does take full accountability and shows actual growth, that's a reason to defend them from past behaviors. But Cody is usually quiet about public issues which leaves viewers with a lack of resolution. So people will mark the page and hold off until someone wants to listen. Jenna Marbles and the fish debacle is a stellar example of accountability and forgiveness. She was thorough, candid, and extremely open about her mistakes and the topic was virtually squashed forever on.
I’m not surprised unfortunately. Cody and Noel can be very entertaining, but their sense of humor has always had a fratty undertone. Before this, I’ve never been able to pinpoint an egregiously ~problematic~ thing either have said, but I always got the vibe they just didn’t really… get it.
ikr like their content isn’t bad at all, i’ve actually enjoyed some videos of theirs. i just never got into it bc it just felt like they weren’t actually trying to make a commentary on anything, just poke fun at stuff
I think you’re onto something here, my bf and I used to love their videos but we grew somewhat disinterested in their stuff because everything has this extreme undertone of “needing to be cool”… it always seems that being “uncool“ is the worst thing a person can be, by their rhetoric and humor. Sure it’s entertaining at first but after a while you notice the lack of depth to their material. You can only say a joke so many times until it becomes a fact to your brain.
Noels content is partly pretty disturbing for me, but I don‘t see what you mean by fratty undertone when it comes to cody. Yes, it was like that a couple years ago but I think Cody changed alot. For example in his videos with his wife I think it‘s just wholesome and fun to watch, nothing to do with frat anymore imo :)
@@user-rz3nu3lm5r yeah drew is my fav too! He was never problematic or had any drama, because his Videos are kinda opinion based but not really, yknow what I mean? He never talks about controversal stuff that could upset people or part them because of their different opinions, like kurtis does or something (love kurtis, I don‘t think it‘s completely bad to do that or something) with for example genders, politics, relegion, etc. Which drew never touched as far as I can recall.
I really do think this is just the "straw that breaks the camels back"-effect if a little thing happens we are quick to move on but remember, then when something big happens, it encourages us enough to speak about that one thing that rubbed us the wrong way. Now that our opinion wouldnt be going against the grain, it's safe to mention
I absolutely agree. I think that's what it is. It's like being friends with someone has these red flags that you ignore and don't want to make a big fuss over despite the bad feeling in your gut you get from them, maybe because you're afraid to say anything and get backlash from your other friends or you rationalize the behavior in your head by saying that the friend "has good intentions/was joking/etc.), but then you find out something extremely terrible about them, and it all clicks in your head and other people's heads that your gut feeling when those red flags came up were 100% valid.
I will say that I believe that some of " I always knew he was bad" aren't necessarily from ex fans, but from (usually marginalised) people who *have* picked up on some dodgy stuff before but were never taken seriously. And now that it's a "hot topic", there is a level of bitter vindication about being right now that people are listening.
It's more like a "the signs were there, I told you but you didn't listen". I feel like it applies less in this situation and obviously isn't 100% of cases, but in regards to the general "I always knew" response.
I definitely caught a vibe from him a little over a year ago and combined with the duo in quality with his videos I stopped watching. I didn’t say anything or even let myself think it really because I felt like a crazy radfem for feeling like Cody might have been a little off when no one else did. It’s definitely a accumulation of things that led to this controversy.
I second this…made a video on cody ko saying the n word and his crappy apology and eventually just gave up on youtube because of how much racist harassment i got for it…now it’s like 😐 interesting
One of the biggest reasons I love your videos is because they hold up a mirror to the viewer but you do it in a way that also holds up a mirror to yourself as well. Your videos are always a call for all of us to think more critically and to be better. I wasn't familiar with the current Cody Ko situation, but I am someone who stopped watching him a while ago because his content was making me feel uncomfortable. I think that this video has made me do a lot of self reflection on that bit. But also hearing you go through a very similar self reflection made that not as uncomfortable as it would normally be. I have no idea if any of that makes sense (I am very sick while writing this comment haha), but big point is: your content is unique in a way that I've not really seen from other creators and I always appreciate your perspective because of that.
@@celunax idk about op but i had the same experience- i didn't like the switch to covering watchcut-style videos. he would poke fun at them but offer no real critique, and the people in the videos weren't public figures, so it was just uncomfortable to watch. also, without Noel there to build on the jokes, his humor just didn't appeal to me. i don't think that content is _bad_ , just not my style.
@@lizz83 Everything has just seemed so low effort ever since he actually made it super big on TH-cam. Just 0 flavor or personality and I get no laughs out of the videos. I think part of the issue is going from being "just some guy" to an out-of-touch millionaire.
@@lizz83 I agree with a lot of this. Also I think I just grew out of his content as well? Like I started watching his content in high school and I’m in grad school now so just don’t think the frat-boy esq humor appeals to me anymore.
Seeing the comments about them saying "I'm not anti tate" is actually sad. Cody and Noel were two of my favourite youtubers. As someone who experienced a huge amount of misogyny and abuse in their childhood I don't want to support anyone who is on the fence about a misogynist. Ik i should watch this for my self and decide but honestly i find this topic so difficult I don't know if I can and I'm genuinely sad that I'm not sure I want to watch them now.
Just wanted to say that if you feel it is better for your own mental health to just avoid this video and take a break from Cody + Noel all together to be safe, please do that. This video does provide excellent context and a nuanced take on the situation. I will recommend it to anyone wanting more info on the topic, but always put your own mindset first. I hope you are doing well now. Wishing you all the best😊
I understand so heavily... Kendrick was a musical idol for me until he basically stood up for xxx .... I cried really hard, which I'm sure someone will make fun of me for. But when you realize someone you look up to literally wouldn't care if you were abvsed, it really hurts. ❤️❤️❤️❤️ All I can do is send you good vibes cause I know that feeling
I think for your own sake it's best to take a step back from the two, and there's nothing wrong with that! There's so many TH-cam commentators/comedians that are amazing and are also incredibly firm in their beliefs unlike Cody and Noel. Please do what's best for you :)
this video really underminds the apology video where they say they 100% don’t agree or like andrew tate. i would 100% stop watching tmg if i genuinely believed that they felt that way but i don’t. this is coming from some who believes in deplatforming creators and i don’t think cody nor noel deserve that
Something that worries me, is a lot of men are more into this “all way of feminism is wrong and extreme” than standing up for the women in their lives.
That sounds like an issue with feminism rather than men. How about working to push feminism in a direction that isn't predominantly about man-hating and petty social media drama?
Men are complaining about womans bias towards men (extreme feminism) and women are complaining about mens bias towards woman (misogyny). It’s just a big loop of people who think the other person is the bad guy while ironically being just as bad
I had gone off of Cody and Noel after their shown interest in stocks/crypto etc, but also that one video where Cody basically defends outrageously large celebrity houses. Even with that I decided to go back after around a year and see how they were doing and was instantly deterred after seeing their lack of reaction to Andrew Tate. It's very strange stuff to see the people you'd watch constantly become the very person they used to make fun of - as many others have pointed out.
I completely agree about the house video, but hardly see people bringing it up. I've never been a huge 'stan' of either Cosy or Noel, so I am unfamiliar with all the ins and outs of all their content, but I do enjoy watching the occasional video. The celebrity house video came off to me as shockingly out of touch, essentially telling his audience that it was unfair to get annoyed at these multimillionaire celebrities who buy houses so big they will likely never even use a tenth of the space while thousands of people live in poverty just down the road.
@@TroboTicTac this one here - th-cam.com/video/dXw5o0n3vO8/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=CodyKo I think it's super off the way he defends the houses by saying they are beautiful when obviously all the comments he's reading don't genuinely think the architecture is the most hideous, they just hate the capitalistic and wastefulness behind what the houses are. I don't know man, some people might not think It's that bad, and that I'm overreacting, but where I live it's almost impossible for any working or even middle-class young people to even get a foot in the real estate door, and it's unlikely ill ever be able to afford to buy a house of my own, so it hits pretty close to home (or more my lack thereof I suppose).
@@Rose-rd9fp yeah you're completely right, it was just an overall very weird video. And I'm not trying to be one of those people saying "I always got weird vibes" because I didn't! I used to love their 'thats cringe' videos and rewatched them constantly - and on this house video the whole comment section was disagreeing with him so it's not like what he said was ignored in the moment, but I guess people didn't take it as a sign of him beginning to be more out of touch. The housing crisis is some serious shit that he clearly didn't think about before spewing all that defense towards the rich. Like everyone knows he has an expensive house too - which I guess would be just as strange if he was complaining about about how obnoxious the buildings were. Basically why did he make the vid in the first place? Also you're definitely not overreacting because housing is so incredibly important and everyone deserves it.
I had pretty much the same experience. What also turned me off was that the comments had a surprisingly large amount of young men of a very... specific ilk that I dislike. The comments being consistently toxic is often somewhat of a reflection of the creator's values. Also don't take this a weird way but you sound like someone I would be friends with irl.
I can’t say “I always got those vibes from him” because I loved the that’s cringe series and had a little tmg phase back in 2018ish. I followed Cody and Noel for years. That being said, I actually unsubbed from both of them 6mo back or so because I felt their videos take a huge dip in quality, feeling there were video ideas taken from other creators (first one coming to mind being Scott Cramer) and low-effort, less-than-thought-provoking commentary that wasn’t even all that entertaining to watch. This is still all severely disappointing to hear about, since I still had a generally positive view of Cody and Noel.
I'm kinda in the same boat -- I'd been contemplating unsubbing from both just for a little while because their recent content just hasn't been as interesting to me (with the exception of Cody's The Button series, sue me, it's good no-thoughts-brain-off content oops) but I never went through with it for some reason. And I totally thought the same thing about the Scott Cramer thing for the Moment of Truth videos but didn't think it was worth bringing up because I think he shouted out Scott in his second video about it? But I still felt a little weird about it so thank you for validating that lol
@@EF-kk3vh actually I might be a little overopinionated on this lmao probably just from being a former fan of Cody’s and current fan of Scott’s, but it definitely felt like he only shouted out Scott after some (very reasonable) pushback, and it was very quick and only in that single video, when he’d done videos on the same things Scott had done (like that tattoo show and siblings or dating). It’s a rough subject because obviously anyone can make videos on anything and Scott clearly doesn’t own the rights to commentating on public entertainment (especially since cody wasn’t the only one who also made videos on those subjects) but it just felt more consistently “taken” from Scott than any other creator, at least that I’m aware of. I just remember a lot of people being like “Scott had no right to be upset” when I’d argue he actually kinda did, and I don’t even remember him being all that upset lmao
Adore the amount of “I knew they were bad comments” that appeared here and vanished after they clearly got to the part where the video said this isn’t useful
They always gave off those vibes. It was so obvious lmao don’t tell me you guys didn’t notice? (It was not obvious. I am using to power of hindsight and to reanalyze seemingly inconsequential moments, things I had previously excused as “drama,” and things I didn’t know about at all. I am putting together the full picture, and acting like I recognized it for what it actually was from the beginning)
To be fair though, there probably _are_ a lot of people who saw this coming, especially those who heard the abuse allegations and slurs, and didn’t stick around to try and defend him. But I doubt that most of them would’ve waited until now to call them out, and they’re not the ones saying “I saw this coming.”
Yeah I wouldn’t say it aged well, I think he could go into a deep dive on himself with this one. My friend and I both had a work through our own internalized views when this situation came out bc I knew a lot of people in the space looked up to him like drew and Danny and kurtis and I stopped watching Cody a long time ago bc i thought his content got to gross and cried for me personally but my flatly was still a long time viewer so it was really eye opening to talk about our reactions to this situation and how it takes time and time again to see how your brain reacts to different situations and work through our internalized masaginy
What bugs me about this shit is that all of these type of influencers will jump onto roasting any female celebrity for wearing a weird outfit. But advocating for violence against women? Who cares!
The most eye-opening thing about cody and noel's situation is the fact that men with such a large female audience can still be so ignorant to (and dismissive of) the female perspective. Andrew Tate is a physically violent and outspoken misogynist who advocates for and perpetuates manipulation and objectification of women, and all they have to say on that is "oh, his male fans will eventually grow out of it." That's just so completely ignorant coming from men who will never be the recipient of Tate's harmful rhetoric. A man that is enlisting countless young men into his fucked up vision of male/female relations IS damaging and IS dangerous, and to think that it's not only shows your own privilege and distance from such discrimination. They were so scared of Tate stans coming after them that they alienated their own fanbase who were expecting something a little more meaningful for them to say about an alleged sex trafficker and known abuser. This trend of male commentary youtubers exhibiting the bare minimum of actual feminist takes while largely laughing at or making light of dangerous men is honestly vile. On some level they must think that this will make them appear to be "one of the good ones" to their female fans, all the while they don't actually have to do any work educating themselves on feminist issues or take a step back to think about how maybe these misogynist alpha men are not just "cringe content" to the women that their views actually affect. Sure Tate shouldn't be given as much attention as he's getting because it's only sending more men to his content, but they literally had a whole conversation about him on their podcast anyway, a conversation that literally included the words "I'm not anti Tate" which speaks volumes.
Tate has never been charged with assault, the woman in question said that it was a kink thing and that it was consensual. I think Tate is stupid and awful and I don’t support him at all. I don’t think that they knew the severity of Tate, and honestly I kind of agree. Tate thrives off of hate and coverage of him. Plus, he’s right, since about 2016 the red pill community has existed, and once Andrew Tate is gone, someone else will take his place. He’s seen so many of these people come and go why would Tate be different. I do think Noel’s word choice was awful and he shouldn’t have said he wasn’t against Tate, but I think it was just an oversight.
@@lumenx7499 if tate thrives off of attention, why create an entire episode around him? if you don’t want to give him a bigger platform, maybe don’t mention him at all. it’s pretty simple.
I think there's something to be said for "minor accusations" being held without critique because everybody makes mistakes (to an extent). When someone ends up in the news for doing something much bigger and much more detrimental, it adds context in a way. It shows a pattern of behavior, instead of small isolated incidents. Just my take. Love your videos as always :)
I agree! I think we often brush these things aside, not because we we don't want to deal with it or are too nervous too, but because it can feel like a very singular event. like, maybe they just phrased something wrong or maybe we're misunderstanding. but when something bigger happens we realize that, oh, actually it might have been signs of a pattern after all. hindsight and all that.
I definitely agree. I also think the reason folks try and get in contact with commentary channels regarding that seemingly minor stuff is because they know they don’t have the platform to do anything about it. IMO, there are two main factors to effectively calling attention to someone’s missteps online: content and messenger. Content is what’s being said. More serious accusations are more likely to gain traction. Messenger is who’s saying it. If it’s someone with a bigger platform or a more solid reputation, they’re more likely to be listened to. If a tiny channel were to make a video/post/comment calling out one seemingly minor mistake one creator made, they’d get very few people listening, and those who did would probably say they were blowing things out of proportion. But if they get in contact with a bigger channel to talk about it, the bigger channel might have more claims to talk about than just the one, and make a more in depth video more people would listen to. I know this from experience. A creator I watch semi-regularly has a video up from four years ago where they repeatedly misgender a trans woman. They’ve shown themself to be an ally in the time since, so I’m not trying to cancel them or anything, but it makes me uncomfortable that the video is still up. When a similar situation with another video was brought to their attention they took it down, so I genuinely think they’re just not aware. But all my efforts to inform them (comments, DMs, etc) have been futile. If I thought it was something that needed to be called out, rather than simply brought to their attention, I can totally see myself doing similar to the folks Duncan mentioned and trying to tell a bigger commentary channel about it.
i agree im kind of confused why duncan didn’t seem to have this take, i love his videos but it seems really obvious. as well as dismissing people saying they’re jumping on a bandwagon by saying something was off. something was off people have been saying it for years. just now that feelings been justified so people can act based on a fact not a feeling and him being entertaining was worth ignoring a feeling but not something substantial
Yeah definitely. For me a moment like that was when they made the video about that "40 year old virgin" guy. I'm asexual and i used to have a lot of self esteem issues because of that (like there must be something wrong with me if i still haven't done the do by this age. Even if i don't actually want to) And a lot of the jokes they made in that video just made fun of the guy for still being a virgin at his age. I remember that made me uncomfortable enough to stop watching for a while but i still justified it "they don't have my experience and don't know those kind of jokes can hurt people like me" "i don't want to cause drama" In the end i never voiced that complaint but now i definitely feel like i should have tried. I can't expect people to change if i don't say anything. Still though i don't think it would have really reached them.
I don't think Cody and Noel are bad people I think they were being cowardly and trying to avoid having to interact with tate in anyway. But that's no excuse it's not hard to condemn a human trafficker.
It's also not hard to avoid accusing people of crimes that they've never been convicted of, or even charged with. Tate's a cunt, but you undermine the argument against him when you base your anger around easily debunked misinfo.
ive said before about Cr1tikal, "i sometimes dont think that guy is as self aware as he thinks he is" and i honestly think that applies to a fair amount of commentary personalities. they build off of this "ironic" persona that ends up secretly being/ becoming their actual way of thinking when you learn more about them or watch more of their content. i think its like a combo of not being as aware as they think they are and a kind of self-flanderization
Charlie is someone I believe is a decent person, but he's a perfect example of the ironic persona and not realizing he isn't as self-aware as he thinks. He made some really dumb fencesitter comments in a video about Black Lives Matter and the murder of George Floyd that really upset me and so few people aside from me said anything in the comments.
@@Aster_Risk I'm glad you bring that up because I remember him reacting to a video of a black woman recording a Karen in a Victoria Secret store and all he could say was the staff were unfair, the security were unfair, and the situation was unfair. He couldn't say why and the reason why was obvious; racism. Everyone, including me, had to address the racism in the comment section because it wasn't address in the video. I don't think Charlie is a bad person. He tries to stand up for vunerable people, especially women, as much as possible, but doesn't want to get too political--probably in fear of losing his fanbase.
When Charlie gets it right, he gets it right - but he can be an absolute fencesitter on crystal clear issues. Its the typical "My politics are kinda in the middle, I see both sides, so Im smarter" stance that is just very immature.
@@bethchills LMFAO KURTIS IS JUST LIKE THE REST OF THESE MFS WHAT ARE U ON ABOUT???? He’s a fake feminist/ally. He knows he has a majority female audience and knows exactly what to say to get them to support him. This happened with another commentary youtuber and he was revealed as having been verbally, mentally, emotionally abusing and neglecting his own gf. I don’t trust any of these mfs. Also, Kurtis still hangs out with, shoots videos with, and supports his friend racist, misogynistic friend Dean
This is crazy! Not only are all the issues with Cody covered but the insight into why other creators are only now talking about what happened. This means anyone close with Cody has definitely known about all of this for a long time. Cody isn’t the only one getting burned this time around
@@agneebags I also had this thought until I remembered how he was talking about how unbearably hot it was in his last video so like? Not the wildest thing to dream about lol
I've been trying to post a comment about Colby Leachman, a r••••• Cody is friends with, but youtube won't let me post it. But, he was platforming this dude for a long time and has been in pics with him as recent as 2021. His friend committed the act while in college with Cody and they've continued their friendship for 10+ years. Finding this out is why I stopped watching Cody
Oh my God, yes. I remember when the Tana Mongeau thing happened, a lot of people were calling Cody out about Colby in the comments of his videos, but the comments would all get deleted.
I actually had no idea about the Breitbart standup, really makes me look at Noel differently. If he ever addresses it, him saying he did it 'ironically' won't cut it for me. As for Cody, it was always weird to me how the Tana allegations got swept under the rug.
@@sillymiaow true, but I think any accusation of SA (since that’s what I understood the allegations to be, correct me if I’m wrong) should be taken seriously, regardless of who it’s from. Especially since the type of influencer Tana is might lie about this sort of thing for attention, but I highly doubt she’d come up with a story that could stand any scrutiny (Paytas did a similar thing a while back). Getting more eyes on it would only make the truth come out faster. If nothing else, I find it very weird that Cody didn’t respond at all. Personally I would find that kind of accusation very offensive and make sure to make my side of the story known, even if that’s “I’ve literally never met this girl, she’s lying.”
@@thedestroyasystem ya I would NOT ignore SA allegations and I'm just a regular shmegular person... Like I get maybe not wanting to turn it into a big thing but why not at least a post saying "nope I don't do that shit"?
i think the “don’t want to give it attention” is stupid when you make him the title and thumbnail. that looked like an andrew tate video, they were already giving him attention with that.
Also another thing the Andrew Tate tag on Tik Tok has over 7 billion views he was already given way more attention than Cody or Noel could’ve given him.
I remember this sort of misogyny being prevalent during the 2000s to 2015s and I'm so unhappy this shit is making the rounds again. I don't want to see girls going through the "not like other girls" phase in order to distance themselves from the shame of being sexually objectified.
I like Cody but it's easy to forget that he was a genuine frat bro. It's not just a character that he plays for fun. He was actually a playboy that engaged with that culture and he's admitted it before. A bit ago it came out that one of his college friends was accused of sa and I don't remember the case much but it was a known thing and the guy was associated to the school in some way so it was swept under the rug and Cody was still seem in photos with him after. That started making me feel a certain way about him. He responded pretty well to criticism a lot of the way so it's hard to feel that his slips are intentional and he has boomer energy a lot of the time so it's not crazy to say maybe he just wasn't on social media that week or something but still. I've been taking a break from Cody. I don't like the crypto thing they were on. I don't like that they were so vanilla on Gary Vee. I don't like that they were so vanilla on Tate. I think he can do better so I don't want to write him off completely but yeah it's understandable why people would if they feel that the Cody we've seen is inauthentic.
@@emmetmahoeny957 you really take the time to make this comment just say is that deep as an argument ???I don’t shit this dude but really a least argue you don’t agree
@@emmetmahoeny957 Cody got you down bad doesn’t he you have responded to a least 4 comments in this channel just start yapping any time somebody’s says something about hero🤣🤣🤡 without arguing why again🤣🤣
What’s really terrifying about Andrew tate to me is that he says he goes to Romania because of how women in Romania are. There’s an excellent article I highly recommend everyone read called “cockblocked by redistribution: a pickup artist in Denmark” which talks about the economic relationship to cultural values. Women in scandavian counties are more empowered culturally and are able to confidently reject the ideology of an Andrew tate because their economic empowerment literally makes them less dependent on men. In poor Romania , patriarchal values thrive because women are dependent on men. Cultural values are justifications of existing economic relationships. This is something we need to think about if we want to fend off this kind of violent patriarchal misogyny and it’s normalization. As always study Marx
Thank you so much!! I'll go read this article. It's really amazing and insightful how we can learn so much thanks to people like you sharing knowledge. Thank you again.
No… As someone from Eastern Europe this isn’t the case with younger women. Most women stand their ground and are able to reject people like Tate. Most women work for themselves and aren’t dependent on a man. However there are other factors at play. Romania and other parts of Eastern Europe hold much more backwards views on stuff like misogyny and are generally more conservative. Most people have higher tolerance or acceptance of misogynistic rhetoric. That fact is often used by Western men to fetishise Eastern European women. They see us as these white women with blonde hair that haven’t been corrupted by the Western “woke culture” and globalisation. That seems to be the case with Tate. The way he describes Romanian women is very wrong and is not the reality at all. The biggest danger here is Andrew manipulating young impressionable Romanian women with his money and the fact that he’s American. Many young Romanian women can fall for that because of little job opportunities.
@@justsamoo3480 so you agree? The OP stated that the problem with Romanian women and AT was that there’s a power imbalance created by the socioeconomic disparity in the country? You said in one statement that most women work for themselves but sum it up at the end by saying that the problem with Tate is that Romanian women may see him as a job opportunity because he’s American and wealthy? While I get the idea that Eastern European women have been fetishized to the point of their losing identities to men like this is accurate the final paragraph contradicts your initial claims.
I used to watch them and remember watching their video on Girl Defined and how they kept making a lot of sexual comments on the two women, and it made me really uncomfortable so I stopped watching him for the most part, and I used to mod for a youtuber on twich, and we raided Noel on twich after the stream and he was saying some misogynistic stuff that upset our audience. It seems like the casual sexism is just part of their brand for while and I had assumed that the people watching had realized that they were at least somewhat like that?
Yeah I can't remember who said it, but someone talked about girl defined in a video very respectfully. They brought up the fact that maybe being sexualized without consent is why they dress the way they do, which I could totally understand. Not saying it's right to force on other people, but I also have been dressing more modestly in public for the same reason. Tired of getting comments and stuff. I just don't think they're feminists lol (Cody n Noel) so I don't really look to them for that content. We need a higher standard for feminist men than 'at least they don't call their girl a b!tch'
@@mightymeatymech You're thinking about the previous video on this channel, which was about Abby Shapiro, not girl defined, but the point definitely stands here. When I watched that video I actually thought of the Cody KO Girl Defined video
I remember that video! That was the first one I saw and it really upset me how he was treating them! I HATE girl defines but I felt they were being sexist and gross with their "commentary" Gave me gross vibes
Exactly. Cody always gave me the feeling of arrogance and i wasn’t ever a fan really. But that one video was so bad to me. But when i said it, i was called out for “defending” Girl defined, which I’m definitely not. Idk Where I’m going with this. It’s just cool to share this in here, now that i see more people agreeing with me
i used to watch a lot of cody ko but i think his videos loss a lot of quality over the years. it’s not that i’ve grown out of the genre of commentary at all- but i feel like his videos have become more reactionary than actual criticism. his videos now feel stale where i personally feel like the quality has been diminished by the quantity.
Yeah I very much feel that. It’s like he didn’t evolve much as a creator, so his content now is no different from any reaction channel. He just watches a weird video and goes “wow that’s weird!” (Or at least in the few videos I’ve tried to watch- it could just be that those are the ones I clicked on)
Yeah, I’ve also felt that recently, I think it has to do with his subscriber number. Back when he had a smaller audience he would actually make a commentaries and give his opinion and even roast the person on the video he was watching but he also started getting in trouble with the things he was saying by other audiences and as his subscribers grew, he kinda has backed away from that and has just been making more reactions.
i think what rlly hurt a lot of their audience (including me) is the fact that they have previously and repeatedly gone after women for doing much less and making a lot of content out of it, especially when reacting to creators like girldefined who actively talked somewhat badly of men - yet when a man does something 100x worse they suddenly have nothing to say :/ it just kinda shows that if something hurtful is not affecting them directly, they don’t even care about it. Also over the past year i’ve kinda been distancing myself from noel after a couple comments he made and always felt kinda bad about it but ig not anymore lol
@@trynagocrayz12 when your values and beliefs are such a big part of your platform and career, people are going to stop supporting you if you betray those values. if they wanted a comedy career where their political beliefs don't matter as much, they should be stand-up comedians instead of internet personalities. i mean, *personalities* is in the name.
@@neuroatypicalkirby2 I would argue there values and beliefs aren’t a big part of their platform at all, people like them because they are funny, they tell good jokes and make people laugh, there popularity has very little to do with politics and their beliefs, that’s why this will all blow over and have 0 effect on them
Never got into Cody and Noel. Not gonna say I’m any good judge of character cuz I loved Gus Johnson, but their sense of humor (at least when I tried to watch em) was pretty reliant on gross out stuff and that’s not my thing. I’m not surprised they’re getting backlash, though; if nothing else, being on the internet for as long as they have made it inevitable.
I second this, I definitely didn't like the fratty kind of humour they had and still have going on, it always seemed so superficial and childish to me. Also getting famous cringing at other people's videos doesn't really give the best vibes or at least not vibes I enjoy engaging in.
Hmm I was into Cody Ko years ago and gross out was definitely not something I recall. Maybe that’s a new thing that developed, I would call it more so like a bit juvenile. He reminds me of how me and my friends talked to each other in highschool, with just intense surface level personal attacks as a joke that we never meant genuinely. But I tend to kinda step back a bit when a creator gets super popular and “brandy/businessy” anyways
@@monhi64 it’s possible I’ve misremembered stuff, I just remember a lot of dick jokes when I tried to watch Noel and Cody together. I mean, they called themselves Tiny Meat Gang, ffs. Not that I’m totally against that, but it’s low hanging fruit, and when it makes up the majority of somebody’s humor I find it uninteresting. Immature is definitely a good way to put it. It came to mind when I was writing this, but I felt like it might be a bit harsh since I haven’t watched them in so long, so I decided to try and go with a more neutral descriptor. Thinking back on the kind of content they made though, the shoe fits lol.
i got into them back in 2017 (i was in 8th/9th grade at the time) when they first came onto youtube, but as i got towards the end of HS something really felt off to me so i started watching less. i think what finally got me iirc (it’s been years and i have an awful memory and i remember this vaguely) to stop watching was a video i saw of noel apologizing for using the t-slur? again i vaguely remember this happening so idek if i made it up in my head but all i’m sure of is that after i stopped watching cody (but kept watching noel), i dropped both of them completely when noel apologized for something. i only remember him making an apology video and vaguely what it was of. but i agree w u that their humor was/is very juvenile and i think i realized that the frat-bro humor wasn’t actually all that funny as i matured
Same! I really wanted to like them since he was part of the vine commentary group but I just couldnt get into it. I know it'll sound fake now but he always gave me weird vibes
I never got into Cody Ko's stuff, but for years I've seen people put him on a pedestal - and that in itself made me wary. I enjoy many creators in that genre, such as Kurtis Conner and Jarvis Johnson, and it has always made me uncomfy when people idolise them for their opinions. I mean, as a woman and a member of the lgbt+ community, I definitely understand why they do - it used to be very hard to find a man in commentary who stood up for women and minorities, or a woman in commentary who wasn't relentlessly bullied for actually expressing activist stances, and so the safe space they create is a very important and useful one. However, when these men are lifted up for basically doing the bare minimum of saying "sexism/racism/etc is bad" or making fun of someone doing those things, it leads to a position where their downfall is 100% inevitable. I'm not defending Cody here, I think not outright condemning Andrew Tate is despicable, but when people act like a creator is perfect, it hurts their community so much more when it turns out they aren't.
My personal favorites are Chad Chad, Jarvis, and Kurtis in that department because they always stand up for what they believe in, specifically Jarvis. He gets a lot more serious in a lot of his funny videos and I think it’s great. Chad Chad doesn’t really cover serious stuff, but it’s so refreshing to see a woman in the big commentary names. And Kurtis always adds a disclaimer when he makes fun of women to say that it’s not just because they’re women. I love Drew and Danny, but they talk about Cody a lot and kind of, like you said, idolize him, in a way. That’s why I started watching his content
@@yoongiverse. as much as i like kurtis, his understanding of women's issues is extremely surface level and he tends to infantilise women very often in his videos, like they can't deal with the consequences of their actions
@@yoshita4140 I really don’t think he has a savior complex but sometimes it seems like he does. Also what do you mean by the acting like women can’t handle the consequences thing?
@@yoshita4140 i haven’t really seen videos where he infantilises women, are there videos that you have seen where he does? because i’ve seen some where he does hold some women accountable for toxic behaviour
I unsubscribed from Cody years ago because I felt he had nothing interesting to say and came across inarticulate. To me, it always felt that he made fun of these wealthy influencers but actually just wanted to be one
I’ve obviously just started the video. But on the note of the andrew tate bit. Background- I’m in grad school studying incel violence and far-right extremism in general. I’m also an avid TMG fan, I listen to their podcast and even other podcasts that belong to TMG studios. I watch both of their their TH-cam videos etc. I’m not as into Cody but he’s still part of it. So when I saw mainly Noel Miller and Cody Ko spend a 5 minute segment saying something to the effect of “Let people believe what they wanna believe, just ignore Tate completely.” I was annoyed, it was an ignorant take. They clearly didn’t know enough about tate to speak on the issue, and that was also frustrating. It was clear Noel had no idea the extent of Tate!! Don’t speak on something like this without research. Because not everyone has a right to their opinion if it has tangible violence as a result. Something I CAN fully endorse was Noel Miller saying it’s basically irresponsible to have Tate on for a ~debate~ or a clickbait conversation because it’s exposing him to a new pool of young men that maybe have never heard of him, and platforming him. I feel the same about creators that debate fascists and other extremists. But after the episode aired, they both fully evaluated why that was a bad take, made an extremely well informed apology, faced it HEAD on and didn’t defend themselves in the slightest. I think there absolutely was a mobish wave about the situation that drowned out valid backlash. The bandwagon reaction and the “we always knew xyz” takes that were especially prevalent on tiktok from people that don’t regularly watch either of them was disproportionate. There were even videos from people jumping on saying it was an hour long conversation about Tate defending him, then admitting they didn’t watch the segment at all (it was like 5 minutes) Yes it was an ignorant take but the reaction was WILD to me and I literally study this. Yes it was bad. No it wasn’t feral-cancellation bad. I do encourage people to also watch their apology/how they addressed the situation
Also *for sure* I don’t even like speaking on it because the last thing I want is to appear like a pick-me, or sound like I’m excusing someone’s actions, defend someone as a lil fan etc. I want to make it clear that the HEALTHY critique was valid
I hate when people say that what Andrew Tate is doing is okay because "he's just kidding" like even if he was, it's still toxic because so many people follow and look up to him for his toxic ideas, even if he is joking.
@@Getout634 and the thing is he’s absolutely not joking, he might say he is in order to gaslight people but he means every word and has the criminal history to back it up
Moral of the story, don’t become emotionally invested in people you don’t know. Also, it’s important to realize that good people can do bad things and bad people can do good things
Being that you have a very similar analytic view point to D’Angelo - your perspective seems like part one of the miniseries. I mean that as a wholehearted compliment.
They could've mocked him on being the star wars makes you poor guy and people would've taken it and there wouldn't be a controversy but the fact that they weren't even willing to do that feels kinda hmm... ya know? Like obviously you should condemn Tate's actions outright, but the fact that they wouldn't even roast the ostensibly most hilarious twitter thread makes me think they are a bit more than "not anti-Tate".
andrew tate is arguably the easiest person to make fun of simply because his opinions are so dumb lmao- he is charismatic but so were a lot of serial killers. i thought for a long time that he was being satirical, so when i found out he was for real it made it even funnier. he’s a sad lonely man who has a fragile sense of identity. and he’s violent… and a kickboxer. i’ve done kickboxing for 12 years those mfs are borderline sadistic.
Absolutely relate to the adhd brain rn ☠️ I'm so caught up in the Cody ko drama and the lesbian tik tok drama going on, it just scratches the brain different these days
i usually only say "i knew something was up with them" when i really KNEW. like how during that time in 2016-8 (i think?) where everyone loved jeffree star and shane. i hadn't forgot either of their sketchy pasts of the old youtube days and the kinds of people jeffree hung out and went on tour with. when the public finally began hating them i was like oh NOW you see why i never watched shane's documentaries with you or why i didn't buy the palette? it's not just a me not liking a thing cause its popular.... pls
i think when people say they knew something was up disingenuously its a similar idea to when popular artists die and suddenly there's tons of people saying they were huge fans when they obviously weren't
Ugh, I've been there too. The amount of times I've been dismissed while trying to inform people about the shit their favs did is just depressing. When the tipping point finally came around I suddenly wasn't "lying" or "trying to ruin their reputation" anymore. Curious.
I am 23 minutes into this video and I just had to pause it to say this; I have never in my life heard a TH-camr speak with such honesty. I know it will never mean much to anyone else but speaking with this level of candor can be life-changing. This little TH-cam channel is going to change more of the world than you know
man i liked noel. the fact that he can be not anti-tate shows that he can excuse even violent misogyny and that completely ruins any positive perception i have of him.
@Tabitha Cakes yeah tbh I always thought Noel was a decent guy but some of his jokes/comments (cant't remember specifics) just rubbed me the wrong way and I unsubsribed too
@@unpreparedwithacapitalf Damn, I've rarely had that reaction to anyone who I already liked, it would take real action and not someone not going trough a bunch of reflection to not like them. You do you though.
i do think they always had a “feeling” about them but people just didn’t know or didn’t have a solid enough reason to justify it to themselves so they watched because it was still entertaining. and “i knew something was off” is how they’re voicing that.
I think it's absolutely fair to feel that way! It's the implied superiority behind "I'm not surprised because I could tell" that I think drowns out valid backlash
this is how I felt about noel at first. Cody was just boring alone so I stopped. but noel had a more distinct personality and after a few months of watching his content, I just dipped. I noticed it and just couldn't be bothered. I think another thing that might throw ppl off is the fact they have gf and seems very sweet and all that.
@@ggundercover3681 same, i stopped watching them for years, I started back a month or two b4 all this happened and I got the vibe of Cody being the type to sort of be like "i have my privlige, why worry about anyone else's problems", like he was never loud and proud about supporting minoritiy groups and just made these easy formulaic jokes that get boring fast
Yes I was going to say something like this to add. Not to be adding fuel to the fire but Cody and Noel (more so Cody) always had a vibe about them. There was a video with tana and him at vid on or something and for some reason i didn’t like him only when he was with Noel. For a long time I didn’t interact with Cody’s brand or videos alone only when Noel for me was a buffer. But then his brand or persona seemed to be more relaxed and relatable. I should say before he did come off as a ashore completely and that’s why. Am I upset this happened yes, am I surprised no because TH-camrs bring out a persona that they know is socially acceptable. I do think it is interesting that he can’t seem to be anti Tate even though he’s a sex trafficker but quick to critique those same guys with a lower following.
I have to admit I got the same feeling. They feel a little more mature so I always got weird vibes from both of them. It feels like they’re the final bosses of commentary
Hey Duncan, i hope you’ll see this, but I think there’s an angle missing from your assessment of these reactions. I think it’s important to distinguish when the accusations about a person are specifically about misogyny or SA, because when it comes to these reactions of ‘yeah he gave me bad vibes’, when it’s a woman trying to call out a man publicly, we get fucking burned alive unless we have a full court case worth of evidence behind us. How do you think the other commenters would treat a woman who goes onto the TH-cam videos of a popular man with a lot of social capital and says things like ‘is it just me, or does this dude give creepy misogynistic vibes? I don’t have any proof yet, but he just comes across that way’. People do NOT like it when women speak up about misogyny. The irl version of this is how often women in a room will exchange a knowing look, but remain silent because the thing that just happened is ‘not bad enough’ for anyone to take us seriously and do something. So we file it away, and tell any other relevant women in secret, warning them. For anyone to listen and take you seriously, the evidence has to be numerous, damming, and inescapable. I say this as someone who went through the court of public opinion trying to voice my Metoo stories about two different men who were popular in local communities. Sure, some people believed me, but just as many were more than happy to blacklist ME and go for character assassination, nitpicking the story I told and bringing up anything that could spin me in a negative light, because I was less popular and well established in that group. Giving him up would have been a big sacrifice for that community, so people broke their backs to convince themselves that he was innocent. I was more disposable, because I was giving less time, money or resources to that friend group. So I was disposed of. Unfortunately, this is a common experience for women. I certainly don’t have the emotional fortitude to call out misogyny wherever I see it and deal with the onslaught of reactionary abuse. So yeah. I’m 100% the person you’re describing but with a VERY different context. ‘Oh yeah, it turns out ____ is a horrible misogynist and graped someone! Can you believe it?’ Oh yeah. 100%! I totally suspected. But I didn’t say anything about it because nobody would want to hear it anyway. Something had to happen that was ‘bad enough’, and then when that tipping point finally comes, every woman with a story will come out of the woodwork to pile on. We aren’t lying. Or bandwagoning. Or trying to get attention. We’re finally being granted social permission to share the things that we’ve been sitting on for our own safety and well being. And that’s a horrible reality of cases like this, but it is the reality.
this is a great comment! duncan always offers nuanced commentary and an interesting perspective, but i think he failed to consider other possibilities here.
What hurts and I think is very important to keep in mind is that Cody Ko, just as his peers (drew gooden, danny gonzalez and kurtis conner) have and have had a large amount of teenage girls as an audience. The issue with this is that many of us have grown up watching their videos since we were very young. I'll be dead honest, I was watching in 2016 when I was 12 years old and I'm still watching today at 18. Their videos did have an impact on my development as well as that of many of my friends, we were shaped by their humour and worldly views. I know they didn't ask for this and that it seems extreme but that is what happened, you want to be like the person you find cool it's as simple as that. As a girl who would often hear misogynistic comments online by other male creators, Cody's (and his peers) videos felt like a safe haven, a sense of protection against misogynistic comments. It was where a grown man, a nice and funny guy, would also respect, defend and befriend their young female audience in a safe way. The best real-life example I can give is that family friend who you've come to see as an older brother, you respect and consider their words seriously. Suddenly though they talk down to you or another woman by agreeing with or off-handedly saying something misogynistic. It feels like a betrayal of trust but more importantly it kind of feels like a betrayal of protection, this is no longer the safe space that it was. I think that's a huge part of why there is so much backlash, his brand is that safe space but it doesn't feel like it's there anymore which can be very confusing for fans. I also think that's why people were so quick to defend him in the past, you want to keep and protect your safe space. Any threat to that is very scary, I don't think he necessarily realized the strange relationship or situation he created with a lot of his fans and thus doesn't understand all the implications of his actions. Coming from a generation raised by the internet this hits different.
I subscribed to Noel because I think the way that he laughs at his audience while laughing with them is like no other creator. I haven't watched one of Cody's videos in about a year or so bc I haven't found his content funny for awhile. I also, personally don't like the way that he went full steam ahead into capitalism, though he's never said anything that would make me think he that he's NOT a capitalist. At this point, I have no dog in this fight and I just hope that things turn out well, whatever that might mean.
same. i hadn't watched cody or noel for over a year and unsubscribed because it wasn't my sense of humor anymore. i had no idea about the slurs cody used and didn't think about them until all this drama. i hope it all gets sorted out to some extent
I don't know about Cody but Noel has been this way for a while now. I did speak out about it but no one really listens when you're not a creator. I'm not interested in ruining anyone's career, I just dislike it when men make money out of revolving their entire image around feminism, although they are far from feminists. It's dishonest and ingenuine.
@@kaitlynm9463 I didn't say it doesn't apply to those creators. They all made money out of doing the bare minimum. People called them feminist icons for it and acted like they were saints. Same thing happened with creators like Gus Johnson as well. A closer look and you realize that they really don't give a fuck about feminism, what they care about is that feminism is profitable right now. This may not apply to all creators, especially not in the same way, but there's definitely a trend going on.
I agree to a certain extent, but I also think a lot of that has to do with audience reactions, not the creators' content or intentions necessarily. I think it's more about women being conditioned to overly praise any man who stands up against misogyny in any way, rather than these creators purposefully using that to profit off of women. A lot of them never claim to be the feminist icons they're lauded as, and I wouldn't expect to see deep, academic breakdowns of the patriarchy from their channels anyway. I would still rather have a man call out misogyny in a light-hearted way than not at all.
as someone who watches a lot of commentary videos, i think for me there is a general thing of like, i'm always a LITTLE worried there will be some kind of deep undertone of terrible ideology to things, in part because i have found in the past that if i watch or listen to a lot of someone's work, even their unspoken ideology tends to accrete in my head- like, i listened to hundreds of hours of ricky gervais's old radio show, and found that it coarsened my sense of humor, reinforced an idea that mockery to someone's face could somehow force them to be better people, a bunch of that kind of shit. so at some level, for less overtly political channels, i'm always looking for little signifiers, little hints that this person too is approaching the topic in ways that might be unfair or unreasonable or destructive or whatever, not because i necessarily care about their morality for its own sake- we live in a world run by monsters, the exact moral character of a youtuber probably doesn't matter much- but because i want to make sure that the shit that drip drip drips into my head when i am trying to relax isn't going to make me a worse person so when people like kurtis connor mock shitty dudes, it's reassuring. but it's not much of a test, shitty dudes are easy to mock. when they shitcan gus johnson, a dude who still has a large and cruel fanbase, and who is unquestionably a pretty horrible person, that means more. when they work with someone i like, that's a good sign, when they work with someone i think sucks, it then puts me in a position of trying to figure out if i was wrong to think they sucked, or if they suck but maybe in a way that i can tolerate, or if actually they're aligned with this suckiness and i need to re-examine my relationship with their own work. like, youtube is a place with a well known pipeline that draws people further and further towards literal white supremacists like stephan molyneux. there's a lot of money propping up shitty work that goes towards that goal- and not all of it as incompetently managed as prager u. and even outside youtube, you run into the shit like chapo trap house, where one of them turned out a.) to be some kind of sex criminal, who b.) dove into a pretty ugly subset of the right once that got outed. it's fuckin. i dunno, it sucks that it's all this hard for both audience and creators, but in general, i'm not surprised that there's this huge outsize weight given to tiny little signs, all the time
I hope people like these two keep getting called out for stuff like this. It's more serious than people think it is. I left a pretty mild comment a couple days ago on another TH-cam video that was talking about Tate and, almost immediately, I started getting replies from his fans saying women have everything handed to them and we don't really want equality, etc. There are too many people like that and they're gaining in number. Especially after the Roe v. Wade turnover, we need to be vigilant about fighting this. We can't just ignore it.
Honestly I think the "I always knew something was off" mentality happens like you say but in the opposite direction. People genuinely know something is off but gaslight themselves into thinking it's ok and they should ignore it because the creator is popular and people seem to like them. Then when the creator gets called out later, they are fully able to admit the problems with the creator to themselves. I've only been hearing about Cody for like a year but convinced myself that the mildly misogynistic, racist, bodyphobic etc. things he would say weren't a big deal, because he seemed so well loved it was hard for me to admit. Now I can feel like I'm not crazy and other people see it too.
I got weird frat tech douche vibes from when he was younger, but tried to shake it off that maybe he'd grown from it (even though I guess he didn't really show growth, he was just funny). Turns out, nope, he doesn't appear to have grown out of it, just became more charismatic, code switched to the TH-cam ecosystem over the silicon valley one.
I've always been uncomfortable supporting his content after he made some really ableist jokes about a disabled character in a skit he was commenting on. As a disabled person myself, I would never be able to forgive myself for supporting that kind of content, but I will admit that I have doubted my choice in the past. I've worried that I was overreacting because nobody had commented on it before.
I think sometimes, people say "I always knew something was off" because we often try to rationalize away our gut feelings without considering that our gut feelings are important. So that's the meta conversation happening here: those people may be bringing it up to get a cheap sense of superiority, but also to say that our gut feelings are often right, and we should listen to them. Furthermore, you seem to think that everyone saying that simply wasn't saying that before, simply because you weren't hearing it. I think we need to stop trusting our vague impressions of "the internet" so much. We see a filtered version of the general landscape of opinion. There are definitely people who have been discussing this about Cody and will now be saying, "see? I always knew something was off! I'm glad the rest of you are catching up!"
totally understand the whole "i always thought something was off" thing. I usually hate when people do that. But this time it's me. I've followed Kurtis, danny, drew, and so many other commentary channels for so long. And obviously Cody is in that sphere, but I've only ever watched 3/4 videos of his, and never subbed to his channel. I always felt like he wasn't for me. In the sense that i could never feel 100% comfortable watching him as i felt w other commentary channels
I haven't finished but I quit watching Cody after the Tana thing happened where she said he slept with her when she was still underage. Iirc, none of it got addressed, he and kelsey were both quiet for weeks, and the next we heard from him was announcing his engagement to Kelsey. All of it felt off. I never really liked Noel's sense of humor or the way people worship him for having basic empathy when it comes to women.
idkk it’s hard to believe tana. she’s lied abt so much for clout. (like having a stalker, her assistant, her racist past much more) and cody with his racist past and weird sexual comments, they’re both problematic. so it’s hard to choose sides yk?
@@aleah8939 tana and cody made a collab on a video on tanas channel about 8 years ago, and he was definitely acting weird. Even though tana has lied, i believe her cus i dont think she would ever lie about this
really love your analysis as usual duncan! also wanted to add that i like how you’ve been switching up your backgrounds throughout your commentary lately! it’s fun to watch :)
I hope you do an update soon knowing the Tana allegations. Damn, sometimes saying that a TH-camr is terrible doesn’t just come out of nowhere, there’s always early signs. I wonder how Kelsey is doing…
Small thing but I love that you said "...women or people affected by misogyny". So easily making people who are affected but choose not to identify as women feel included and considered
I have to admit that I do watch Cody sometimes and I even used to watch Noel a bit but I think even the people that watch them religiously can admit that they aren't as funny anymore. Their audiences have grown out of them and they seem to be losing touch with even their most die-hard fans. I'm not surprised that this happened when it did. The fraction of a cent that one of my views makes for them might not be important to them, but I personally don't see a point in supporting them anymore.
You shouldn’t blame yourself for not saying something immediately after receiving those early messages. It isn’t your individual responsibility to call him out. You also probably made a good call in terms of protecting yourself - you’re right that at a time when a public figure has an overwhelmingly positive public image, trying to highlight any accusation against them would lead to some fans crucifying you for it. I’ve been in that position before, and it was one of my most acute moments of poor mental health that I’ve ever experienced. It’s OK not to take on the responsibility of calling out (potentially) problematic behaviour every single time.
im also really disappointed in cody and noel. im a HUGE fan of them, theyve been comfort youtubers for me for the longest time. i still dont know how to feel, i dont want to think he’s a bad person but i dont know… i dont know. it just sucks. the whole t-slur situation (hi im trans) makes it worse. cody said the word on the podcast (not as a slur, but in reference to others using it), he didn’t apologize for that. NOEL DID. i actually think noel treated it with a lot of care and made me feel better about the situation. but it still hurts that cody really just let noel take the fall. even when they clarified their stance on the andrew tate issue, noel was doing all the talking. cody just sat there and went “yeah i agree”. it just… really hurts. im sick of my favorite creators consistently letting people down. it feels like at any point my comfort creators could be ripped from me, and that’s terrifying. i want to give cody another chance, i dont think he’s some evil villain, but it’s gonna be difficult to forgive him honestly. but im still holding out hope. another amazing video duncan. thank you so much for this, i always appreciate your different takes on these situations. it’s important to take a step back and look at everything as a whole.
Hey, you should check out Danny Gonzalez. I’d be willing to bet money he’d never do anything bad. He’s one of my comfort creators and if you like Cody you might like Danny too. Also Drew almost forgot. They’re wholesome down to earth guys and imo super funny. I’m sorry people do shitty stuff and let you down when you liked them so much. It happens way too often. I can't help so I’ll just leave with a recommendation. I don’t trust people on the internet to be good because most of the time stuff comes out and it turns out they’ve done or said horrible things. It sucks being let down. Especially when you wanna believe in them. Different content but have you seen ranboo? He’s pretty cool and if you’re into game plays or other streams to watch or have on while you’re doing something he’s great. And it’s a safe place there for us lqbtq+ folks. If you like art I suggest Moriah Elizabeth. These are my comfort creators and the people I trust. Sorry just throwing things out there since there’s not much I can do to help. Hope you’re doing well 😊💕
Hi I hope you’re alright! but also I would like to say that it is a bad idea to get super attached to creators. You’re essentially forming a parasocial relationship with a person who is bound to fuck up eventually. It’s very unhealthy to form such extreme attachment to these random people online because they will eventually disappoint you for some reason. and even if they don’t, it still is a bad idea. It’s hard not to because it’s fun being in a community and humanity thrives off that, but it’s a better idea in this case to simply watch them from afar and try your best not to essentially have your comfort based on internet people’s content, because that comfort can so quickly be snatched away, I’m not trying to blame you in any sense at all, just sharing what personally helps me in case it helps! I’m also a former fan of them, it seriously sucks to watch this happen
@@marie-zb5bh i watch a ton of other creators! danny and drew are some favorites 🥰 thanks for the other recommendations! (im just fine btw, just a bit upset/confused about all this. i hope youre doing well, too!)
this is giving off the same energy as when gus johnson was revealed to be a domestic ab*ser and the commentary community has to pivot to save their own careers. what kind of small or midsize creator would want to call out a popular figure who shares their audience and basically could ruin their own reputation. also you GOTTA do a defnoodles video!!!
What I’ve always found hilarious is that this “I’ve always thought there was something off” effect is clearly just part of human nature at this point, because even Jane Austen was cracking satirical jokes about this in Pride and Prejudice e.g. how people reacted to learning the truth about Wickham’s character. I think it’s just this desire to make sense of and come to terms with the massive change in information by convincing yourself you had already thought of it aka you weren’t wrong this whole time 🤷♀️
noel made the weirdest transphobic remark on their podcast a while ago and that breitbart standup you mentioned is another instance. It seems like he clearly has some bad takes that he's hiding and/or avoiding. Cody is an ex frat boy and has never shown that he actually has a deep understanding of sexism or literally any feminism related topics. People surprised by how they act should realize noel and cody never had critical thinking skills and have always just gotten points for calling out sexist/problematic stuff without any nuance.
i had to unsubscribe from cody ko after i watched a vid in 2020 and he says the f slur, and i was shocked but no one mentioned it in the comments so i thought i was crazy😭
Jesus you have nothing else better to do? just because you feel a certain way about how words were said does not mean that's the reality of it. you are a certified goomba.
Ok I haven't been watching Cody in a while but I've always found him funny. I don't know if I still do. But yeah he's commentary is always just funny,cringe,awkward humor etc. But I've never thought deeply about him having problematic behavior..
i personally cant accept noels apology. i havent really cared about tmg for a while. and im not just saying that to be "part of the crowd" or whatever. i genuinely have felt for a while that theyre just not as fun to watch. noel makes misogynist jokes all the time on stream and tries so hard to be contrarian and too above it all to denounce misogyny or social issues in general tbh. so i wasnt shocked when i heard about this but the fact that he had such a giant hang up to even simply admit that andrew is a bad person and that he doesnt support him??? andrew tate is one of the few examples of a truly bad person that is making the world an even harder place for women to inhabit and all noels reaction tells me is that, like a lot of men, he just doesnt care. im still on the fence about cody...
This is an incredible video very well put together and you were talking about this long before D'Angelo and so many others. I really look forward to your update
Sorry for the light clickbaiting!! I hope you don’t mind I deceived you into having a much deeper conversation than normal - and as always I’m very interested in knowing your thoughts on this as well, I’ll be reading this comments thoroughly!
big brain
Nah cuz him an Noel killer like Andrew tate. YUCK
@@matrocksism when?
thank u again duncan
Ty for being a nice boy Kuncan
This aged… interestingly
@@abbyxoxo48 RIGHT
I'm not shocked about Noel. Cody had me fooled for two years, though.
@@swampsprite9 he could've grown as a person since then. Finding out old dirt doesn't automatically mean you have the person figured out
14:17
I wonder if you'll make an update to this video in light of the recent Tana allegations. I feel like it opens up a greater conversation of how people seem to care a lot less about SA allegations when the woman in question is know to be "provocative" and the guy is seen as a "good guy". It's so frustrating and I feel awful for Tana
would love to see something like this
Even if Tana has f*ed up before it doesnt invalidate her traumatizing experience of being taken advantage of by an older guy she looked up to. A perfect victim doesnt exist and its truly disturbing to see people repeat behaviours to stand behind mens disgusting behavior again and again.
Lol tana is a loser, imagine feeling bad for a bigot who got cancelled and tried to sleep her way to the top of game, from cody ko all the over to lil pump, shes a typical 304 who had her reputation ruined and now wants to take others down with her, its embarrassing honestly.
@@matket5192 Considering she was only 17 when it happened I'd argue people should be even more on her side for innocence because despite her agreeing to the actions I daresay she had barely begun to unpack or acknowledge any trauma that might've led her to believe sleeping with a 25yr old was normal at that age and this event would've contributed to the snowball of traumas and further messy behaviour down the road before she started to realise she needed help. Messy people are often deeply traumatised and vulnerable people
@@stephe1506 saying the exact same thing as u. Agreed. Absolutely not trying to victim blame here at all, the exact opposite!!
Hold up. This lore dropped a YEAR AGO???????
this video is almost two years old actually, and the Tana stuff was known about for years before that.
that's what happens when TH-cam doesn't want you to know something about their money makers😂
How the hell did I miss this.
@@siennz7127 from my experience when people would talk about it over the yrs the comments would get buried by people harassing people who brought it up and or the comments would get deleted
@@kerri6011 if the mods in his reddit sub were anything to go by... its like they all got on their pc's at the same time and were deleting posts as they went up. Insane.
Danny Gonzales had a good take on the Tate situation, essentially calling him pathetic, embarrassing and dangerous. It's not hard to make a simple stance on a sex trafficking misogynist who has so much influence.
He’s never been convicted
And now here we are…
I don’t even think it’s that they didn’t wanna talk about it but ending it with “I’m not anti Tate” is a simple sentence that says quite a lot
Yeah that's the most damning
Literally all of this
I would think being Anti Tate implies that you give a damn about him, and that is also detrimental. The dude feed off of attention, specially bad attention. You say you hate him, he will say to his followers "see? People hate me because they want to shut me up cuz I'm right" and they will believe it.
@@LunaWitcherArt when someone like Tate influences plenty of young boys to be misogynistic and delusional, while simultaneously being accused of human trafficking, then they are absolutely worthy of being disliked. I understand your comment somewhat, he does not deserve any attention, but Cody and Noel specifically brought him up. If they wanted to avoid discourse about him they would not talk about him at all. The fact that they brought him up is enough to make that entire point irrelevant. If they bring attention to him, why not voice their distaste for him?
@@claire-fd7kq you can dislike smth/someone and not be anti. Anti means you are preaching that thing/person is garbage, for anyone who does and doesn't want to listen. To me, they brought him up to justify not talking about him. After all, this is the internet and not talking about a hot topic will definitely be understood as you disagreeing with the current bandwagon. They were basically "damned if you do, damned if you don't". If they never addressed it, they're on Tate's side. If they try to address it without making him a big deal or threat or even interesting, to avoid giving him MORE attention and followers, they are being nonchalant because they agree with him.
Andrew is an example of an objectively bad person, and I don’t understand how people can be “neutral” or in support of these bad people thereis no discussion about him maybe being an okay person. he has shown multiple times that he is a bad person. and Cody and Noel ignoring or being neutral about andrew is a sign of privilege because they will never be hurt by a man like andrew.
(I’m sorry if this doesnt make sense my brain is still trying to wrap around all this i just needed to let my brain ramble)
People close to me in real life are 'neutral ' about tate and it hurts so fucking much. I wish men realised how much it harms the women in their life when they treat misogyny like just another opinion deserving of respect
what about his comments on work ethic? some of them make sense for me?
exactly. like he literally moved to romaina because the metoo movement wasn’t as big there, and that the law there isn’t great. and to get away for his sexual assault & HUMAN TRAFFICKING allegations. human trafficking. and people still like him
100% agree. While I am not a woman, I am apart of a minority group that is rather vulnerable to sexual assault ( typically at the hands of men, not always. ) and it bothers me that a lot of people feel like it’s not a “big problem” or “just an internet problem”. While Andrew Tate himself is a horrible fucking person, he represents a ideology of harming minorities, especially women and generally hateful and violent behavior.
That is my personal opinion of course, I just think that his words and platform and people like him are harmful, to women, to young impressionable boys who could hurt MORE WOMEN. And it just hurts everyone.
@@ss-hc7tb dude… so a) how would you even know this if you hadn’t watched him (Jesus Christ do not give views to that man!!) and b) who the fuck cares?? He’s objectively terrible, shows no inclination to change and shouldn’t be listened to at all!!!?
I understand not wanting to platform or give him more attention but it’s gotta be said - it’s frustrating that women are the ones always fighting in these spaces to be respected. If men did more to call out their peers then it wouldn’t fall on women so much and casual sexism wouldn’t go so unchecked. Can’t help but think that these men are more likely to listen to other men than women.
Yes! All of these commentary youtubers seem to sometimes treat these kinds of people as a fleeting topic to just lightly clown on and then move on. It’s so frustrating and it scares me that our generation and the next generation of girls and fem people are going to have to deal with the actual consequences of these people, meanwhile the men can just go on with their lives and say ignorant shit like ”who cares about Andrew Tate?”. Ofc you wouldn’t care when it doesn’t affect you… 😞
On the slightly positive side, Tate in particular has gotten a lot of widespread attention from all genders from what I've seen. I think the first time I heard about Tate was in a Danny Gonzalez video and he pointed out that his whole "business model" sounded like trafficking pretty early on.
A great, more in depth series of videos about the rise in this type of content are "Dissecting the Manosphere" and "Connecting the Manosphere" by F.D. Signifier. They are very well-done and provides a really comprehensive look at this phenonmen.
There has clearly been a massive spike in this manosphere content lately and it is very alarming. The more creators who call it out, the better. We're in the midst of another backlash to feminsim and it is scary.
We can _try_ to ignore Tate himself (we shouldn’t), but his crimes, his attitude, and his impact on young men HAS to be talked about. Men with Tate’s attitude existed forever, but Tate is extremely loud about it, and he’s fucking everywhere. There’s going to be even more of them because most of his fans can’t be older than 18. Not to say that minors are just idiots; they just want to think for themselves, yet a lot of them don’t have the experience required to truly form their own ideas. In order to get a grip on the world, they’re forced to turn to older people (parents, teachers, friends, and *especially* online creators), which puts them in a unique position for manipulation. Tate loves the attention, but we can’t just ignore him because it’s spreading to young people. The fact that so many people are dismissive of the fact that he has (_allegedly_) assaulted multiple women is testament.
@@Vanessa-vz5cw I am nonbinary, I am disabled and neurodivergent, I am recovering from a terrible illness so that whenever im ready I will be a voice, be a presence, everything to say when I get there! I'm so tired of toxic manosphere. FD signifier is amazing, I like Noah Samsen too, I try to find men I trust to watch instead, and someday I'll be a person speaking too
@@Vanessa-vz5cw I really enjoy FD Signifier's videos, so I'm happy to see people also looking into his content. He really clarifies the thoughts I've been having for some time now.
This being rerecommended to me during tana's accusations despite watching it at the time is interesting
righttt i just got this on my feed and my eyes widened when i saw the date
Hi y'all, here from the future with the blowups about his creepy history with Tana
@@chrisz7494 yeah but there isn’t any evidence yet just tanas word
@@cartermarrero9431 and cody being friends with/inviting a rapist to his wedding
Codygeddon
did you predict the D'Angelo Wallace vid?????
@@cartermarrero9431 ever heard of believing women?
I had NO idea this was going on, I stopped watching Cody a while ago and only watch Kelsey’s vlogs. I find it interesting that they went so hard criticizing Girl Defined for a similar view as Andrew Tate (women aren’t equal to men and belong in the kitchen, etc.), yet they won’t criticize him. Girl Defined was less extreme too. Is it worry over overlapping audiences?
Oooooh, really solid point!
@@dac3y Which part did they say in the apology? The Girl Defined part or the overlapping audience part?
Let's not say girl defined is less extreme. They are aggressively homophobic and transphobic. They support the torture of LGBTQIA kids.
The GD video also rubbed me the wrong way. Idk I'd need to watch it again, I saw it maybe 2-3 months ago, but it was pretty "sexually immature." At the time thinking "this is borderline iffy, kinda sexist/inappropriate?" I prob should watch it again b4 commenting but I also wanna see if anyone sees/feels the same way?
Was I projecting "it's not so bad" then, and now projecting "that's so sus?" Idk its interesting.
Me trying to pull the video out of my memory: iirc the jokes were "GD dont want to have sex..... but they should have sex!" And then they made sexual jokes of the GD girls like.... I get it, it is extreme to tell girls "crushing on boys and having strong sexual feelings is sinful," but the opposite of that and forcing sex on someone who doesn't want it isn't good either. :/
Maybe I'll watch it tomorrow and see what I think then. I'd do it now but its time to sleep. I want to record (to the best of my ability) what I thought/felt before this drama tho.
Edit: grammar, wow I was sleepy last night hahaha. I'm gonna watch the video and just make another edit to this comment.
Me not having a twitter or a tiktok account and absolutely only finding out about any drama through your videos where you already have them all wrapped up in a constructive and nuanced conversation mwah thanks duncan
^^this omg i had no idea about any of this lol
always my thought too. like duncan is the person who takes all the jumbled nuance of these situations and breaks them down so well, and i’m glad i often first hear this drama stuff from him and not from twitter people, who are often so black and white with their takes.
Me as well lol
same lmao
This is like… good mental health care
Former Cody fan here: One of the more serious things about Cody that really turned me off from him was his affiliation with Colby Leachman. There's a whole saga there, but basically: Colby r*p*d a girl while him and Cody were at Duke together. Cody used to have him in some of his earlier videos from when he used to do vlogs on his channel. It's one of those things where it's pretty clear that Cody knows about it, but refuses to acknowledge it. Even though he hasn't had him on the channel in awhile, about once a year or so, there will be a random picture on social media of them on vacation together so it's clear that Cody still willingly associates with him. There's a subreddit (CodyKoUnfiltered) that's mostly ex-fans calling out some of the more problematic things he's done
If you read the court documents, it says that Colby's frat brothers were questioned about what happened because many of them saw the video he took while assaulting his victim. There is absolutely zero chance that Cody doesn't know his friend is a r@pist.
Since finding out about this a while ago, I haven't been able to watch his stuff. The details of the story get more disturbing the more you read about it. I'm not sure how Cody justifies their friendship, mostly because he refuses to acknowledge it.
@@carriemaej Absolutely. I felt (and still feel) the same way 100%
I can’t believe I hadn’t heard about the Colby thing until now, but if what I saw on the subreddit is true….like video evidence? Wtf?
I don’t know if no one is talking about this because they don’t know or because they’re too scared to talk about it. I hope Duncan does because I feel like no one else will.
crazy that you were talking about this a YEAR ago and now the reckoning appears to be starting
Holy shit...you were on this subject A YEAR AGO
almost 2!!
what i find peculiar is that these kind of commentary men are so quick to make fun of controversial women but can’t blatantly say that they don’t support a prominent misogynist ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
What controversial women did they make fun of??
@@MT-mq9rs Girl Defined is the first that comes to mind
yikes ™️
@@MT-mq9rs girl defined, classical Abby, that one Ben Shapiro copy with the cat ear headphones
I do not like them at all but you can see that some of them have a problem with saying "I'm against this misogynistic man" when they do not have a problem with saying "I'm against this misogynistic women"
I mean, I can’t think of any other examples besides Cody or Noel, but I never really thought about that before 😕 I’ve never been a huge fan, but the only reason I watch him a lot less than other channels is because sometimes his comedy is a bit too gross for me lmao
A deep dive on something that “could” be covered in 3 minutes is my favorite genre on TH-cam.
can you recommend any channels like that? sorry been looking for new youtubers :)
@@mooiioo8094 tiffany ferguson, jenny nicholson, sarah z are my go-to's when i want to hear an entirely too long but well made anaylsis
@@mooiioo8094 check out Salari
@@mooiioo8094 Quenton Reviews, CJ the x, James Sommerton, Yhara zaid, ladyknightthebrave, Shanspeare, Theresa Jordan, Salem Tovar, Renegade Cut.
I could honestly go on forever
adding on to the channel recommendations here. lindsay ellis isn’t making videos anymore but her channel is still up and still has some great stuff.
for more political ones i’m gonna suggest some specific videos.
shaun’s harry potter critique is really great imo it dives into a lot of issues that were already in the series that weren’t really talked about from someone reading it for the first time post jk rowling is transphobic realization (loosely connected to the video topic lol).
contrapoints has a lot of good videos but one of my favorites is the cringe one. (also loosely connected to the video because cody ko got popular for his videos about cringe lol)
and backing up the sarah z suggestion one of my favorite videos from her is “idiocracy is not a documentary” it’s heavily affected the way i talk about politics
edit: new recommendations: verilybitchie and mia mulder. mia’s got a really interesting video about maps that i enjoy and another one about drugs that’s pretty good.
verilybitchie has a great video about copyright laws which i think is cool and just uploaded a new one about s/x work which was super informative. go watch it
I feel like misogyny is getting worse lately and it's depressing as fuck to see it happen, we are sliding backwards 😔
fr
I'm a little fearful for the future tbh...😭
I think we’re just noticing it and calling it out more than we used to
We're not sliding backwards, people are just being more open and proud of being douchebags
@@haleyt7518 the problem is that the more vocal we get, the louder they have to yell their misogyny
I find it hilarious how they'll rip into harmful rhetorics that comes from channels like Girl Defined but they won't put someone like Andrew Tate in his place. Why? I think they're kinda scared in my opinion.
I think it’s exactly that. They’ve usually gone at people who are more being weird on the internet than being hateful. They’re not the type to stir up drama like that
Or they're misogynistic
@@claudiacaro624they just don’t want to start drama with Tate
Interesting to see this pop back up again... 👀
I do disagree a bit about taking up past actions. Yes, you shouldn't compile ammo on a person just to use it when that person is getting "canceled", but I do very much think that current actions can give new context to old ones
exactly
i think i agree with you. i really love this community because the criticisms are respectful and nuanced.
precisely. if theres a pattern of behavior, its important to examine where it came from. its not always the case in people whove genuinely changed, but completely being against examining peoples past mistakes in context of their current ones is just unhelpful
I'm just happy to see a comment here that actually seems to be addressing the whole point of the video
It's important to consider that people ARE angry about these things when they happen. Social media just didn't catch on and boost the topic at the most "appropriate" time. Scandals or whatnot don't get a mulligan just because it didn't trend when they happened. People HAD been shouting Shane Dawson's problems for years, but it didn't catch until there was already an avalanche.
If someone does take full accountability and shows actual growth, that's a reason to defend them from past behaviors. But Cody is usually quiet about public issues which leaves viewers with a lack of resolution. So people will mark the page and hold off until someone wants to listen.
Jenna Marbles and the fish debacle is a stellar example of accountability and forgiveness. She was thorough, candid, and extremely open about her mistakes and the topic was virtually squashed forever on.
I’m not surprised unfortunately. Cody and Noel can be very entertaining, but their sense of humor has always had a fratty undertone. Before this, I’ve never been able to pinpoint an egregiously ~problematic~ thing either have said, but I always got the vibe they just didn’t really… get it.
ikr like their content isn’t bad at all, i’ve actually enjoyed some videos of theirs. i just never got into it bc it just felt like they weren’t actually trying to make a commentary on anything, just poke fun at stuff
I think you’re onto something here, my bf and I used to love their videos but we grew somewhat disinterested in their stuff because everything has this extreme undertone of “needing to be cool”… it always seems that being “uncool“ is the worst thing a person can be, by their rhetoric and humor. Sure it’s entertaining at first but after a while you notice the lack of depth to their material. You can only say a joke so many times until it becomes a fact to your brain.
@@user-rz3nu3lm5r I agree I love his content
Noels content is partly pretty disturbing for me, but I don‘t see what you mean by fratty undertone when it comes to cody. Yes, it was like that a couple years ago but I think Cody changed alot. For example in his videos with his wife I think it‘s just wholesome and fun to watch, nothing to do with frat anymore imo :)
@@user-rz3nu3lm5r yeah drew is my fav too! He was never problematic or had any drama, because his Videos are kinda opinion based but not really, yknow what I mean? He never talks about controversal stuff that could upset people or part them because of their different opinions, like kurtis does or something (love kurtis, I don‘t think it‘s completely bad to do that or something) with for example genders, politics, relegion, etc. Which drew never touched as far as I can recall.
I really do think this is just the "straw that breaks the camels back"-effect
if a little thing happens we are quick to move on but remember, then when something big happens, it encourages us enough to speak about that one thing that rubbed us the wrong way. Now that our opinion wouldnt be going against the grain, it's safe to mention
THIS
I absolutely agree. I think that's what it is. It's like being friends with someone has these red flags that you ignore and don't want to make a big fuss over despite the bad feeling in your gut you get from them, maybe because you're afraid to say anything and get backlash from your other friends or you rationalize the behavior in your head by saying that the friend "has good intentions/was joking/etc.), but then you find out something extremely terrible about them, and it all clicks in your head and other people's heads that your gut feeling when those red flags came up were 100% valid.
I will say that I believe that some of " I always knew he was bad" aren't necessarily from ex fans, but from (usually marginalised) people who *have* picked up on some dodgy stuff before but were never taken seriously. And now that it's a "hot topic", there is a level of bitter vindication about being right now that people are listening.
It's more like a "the signs were there, I told you but you didn't listen".
I feel like it applies less in this situation and obviously isn't 100% of cases, but in regards to the general "I always knew" response.
I definitely caught a vibe from him a little over a year ago and combined with the duo in quality with his videos I stopped watching. I didn’t say anything or even let myself think it really because I felt like a crazy radfem for feeling like Cody might have been a little off when no one else did. It’s definitely a accumulation of things that led to this controversy.
He literally said the t slur on a podcast but nobody listened to anyone speaking up
@@emoth didnt noel make an apology for it
I second this…made a video on cody ko saying the n word and his crappy apology and eventually just gave up on youtube because of how much racist harassment i got for it…now it’s like 😐 interesting
You were ahead of your time kuncan
Ro Ramdin has a really good video called Should We Have Seen This Coming about John Mulaney. Talking about exceptional white guy syndrome.
Loved that video! Ro makes fantastic content 😊
That's a great video!
Oooo gonna watch it right now 😁
+
Thanks for the rec 👀 checking it out rn
One of the biggest reasons I love your videos is because they hold up a mirror to the viewer but you do it in a way that also holds up a mirror to yourself as well. Your videos are always a call for all of us to think more critically and to be better. I wasn't familiar with the current Cody Ko situation, but I am someone who stopped watching him a while ago because his content was making me feel uncomfortable. I think that this video has made me do a lot of self reflection on that bit. But also hearing you go through a very similar self reflection made that not as uncomfortable as it would normally be. I have no idea if any of that makes sense (I am very sick while writing this comment haha), but big point is: your content is unique in a way that I've not really seen from other creators and I always appreciate your perspective because of that.
(your comment makes sense to me, this is exactly why Duncan is such a special breath of fresh air!)
What about his content made you uncomfortable? Just wondering, if you don't mind me asking.
@@celunax idk about op but i had the same experience- i didn't like the switch to covering watchcut-style videos. he would poke fun at them but offer no real critique, and the people in the videos weren't public figures, so it was just uncomfortable to watch. also, without Noel there to build on the jokes, his humor just didn't appeal to me. i don't think that content is _bad_ , just not my style.
@@lizz83 Everything has just seemed so low effort ever since he actually made it super big on TH-cam. Just 0 flavor or personality and I get no laughs out of the videos. I think part of the issue is going from being "just some guy" to an out-of-touch millionaire.
@@lizz83 I agree with a lot of this. Also I think I just grew out of his content as well? Like I started watching his content in high school and I’m in grad school now so just don’t think the frat-boy esq humor appeals to me anymore.
Seeing the comments about them saying "I'm not anti tate" is actually sad. Cody and Noel were two of my favourite youtubers. As someone who experienced a huge amount of misogyny and abuse in their childhood I don't want to support anyone who is on the fence about a misogynist. Ik i should watch this for my self and decide but honestly i find this topic so difficult I don't know if I can and I'm genuinely sad that I'm not sure I want to watch them now.
Just wanted to say that if you feel it is better for your own mental health to just avoid this video and take a break from Cody + Noel all together to be safe, please do that.
This video does provide excellent context and a nuanced take on the situation. I will recommend it to anyone wanting more info on the topic, but always put your own mindset first.
I hope you are doing well now. Wishing you all the best😊
I understand so heavily... Kendrick was a musical idol for me until he basically stood up for xxx .... I cried really hard, which I'm sure someone will make fun of me for. But when you realize someone you look up to literally wouldn't care if you were abvsed, it really hurts.
❤️❤️❤️❤️
All I can do is send you good vibes cause I know that feeling
I think for your own sake it's best to take a step back from the two, and there's nothing wrong with that! There's so many TH-cam commentators/comedians that are amazing and are also incredibly firm in their beliefs unlike Cody and Noel. Please do what's best for you :)
@@mightymeatymech oh wow I wasn't aware of that
this video really underminds the apology video where they say they 100% don’t agree or like andrew tate. i would 100% stop watching tmg if i genuinely believed that they felt that way but i don’t. this is coming from some who believes in deplatforming creators and i don’t think cody nor noel deserve that
Something that worries me, is a lot of men are more into this “all way of feminism is wrong and extreme” than standing up for the women in their lives.
That sounds like an issue with feminism rather than men. How about working to push feminism in a direction that isn't predominantly about man-hating and petty social media drama?
Men are complaining about womans bias towards men (extreme feminism) and women are complaining about mens bias towards woman (misogyny). It’s just a big loop of people who think the other person is the bad guy while ironically being just as bad
Don't worry JiU, I will protect you.
@@peacemaster8117bruh do you even realise that the reason why women are oppressed is MEN?it’s pretty fckn obvious
@@peacemaster8117 who the fxck said it even was that in the first place?
man i thought this was recent. yeah around 1 year later and its even worse
I had gone off of Cody and Noel after their shown interest in stocks/crypto etc, but also that one video where Cody basically defends outrageously large celebrity houses. Even with that I decided to go back after around a year and see how they were doing and was instantly deterred after seeing their lack of reaction to Andrew Tate. It's very strange stuff to see the people you'd watch constantly become the very person they used to make fun of - as many others have pointed out.
I completely agree about the house video, but hardly see people bringing it up. I've never been a huge 'stan' of either Cosy or Noel, so I am unfamiliar with all the ins and outs of all their content, but I do enjoy watching the occasional video. The celebrity house video came off to me as shockingly out of touch, essentially telling his audience that it was unfair to get annoyed at these multimillionaire celebrities who buy houses so big they will likely never even use a tenth of the space while thousands of people live in poverty just down the road.
I dont remember that in the house video
Link?
@@TroboTicTac this one here - th-cam.com/video/dXw5o0n3vO8/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=CodyKo
I think it's super off the way he defends the houses by saying they are beautiful when obviously all the comments he's reading don't genuinely think the architecture is the most hideous, they just hate the capitalistic and wastefulness behind what the houses are.
I don't know man, some people might not think It's that bad, and that I'm overreacting, but where I live it's almost impossible for any working or even middle-class young people to even get a foot in the real estate door, and it's unlikely ill ever be able to afford to buy a house of my own, so it hits pretty close to home (or more my lack thereof I suppose).
@@Rose-rd9fp yeah you're completely right, it was just an overall very weird video. And I'm not trying to be one of those people saying "I always got weird vibes" because I didn't! I used to love their 'thats cringe' videos and rewatched them constantly - and on this house video the whole comment section was disagreeing with him so it's not like what he said was ignored in the moment, but I guess people didn't take it as a sign of him beginning to be more out of touch.
The housing crisis is some serious shit that he clearly didn't think about before spewing all that defense towards the rich. Like everyone knows he has an expensive house too - which I guess would be just as strange if he was complaining about about how obnoxious the buildings were. Basically why did he make the vid in the first place? Also you're definitely not overreacting because housing is so incredibly important and everyone deserves it.
I had pretty much the same experience. What also turned me off was that the comments had a surprisingly large amount of young men of a very... specific ilk that I dislike. The comments being consistently toxic is often somewhat of a reflection of the creator's values. Also don't take this a weird way but you sound like someone I would be friends with irl.
I can’t say “I always got those vibes from him” because I loved the that’s cringe series and had a little tmg phase back in 2018ish. I followed Cody and Noel for years. That being said, I actually unsubbed from both of them 6mo back or so because I felt their videos take a huge dip in quality, feeling there were video ideas taken from other creators (first one coming to mind being Scott Cramer) and low-effort, less-than-thought-provoking commentary that wasn’t even all that entertaining to watch. This is still all severely disappointing to hear about, since I still had a generally positive view of Cody and Noel.
I'm kinda in the same boat -- I'd been contemplating unsubbing from both just for a little while because their recent content just hasn't been as interesting to me (with the exception of Cody's The Button series, sue me, it's good no-thoughts-brain-off content oops) but I never went through with it for some reason. And I totally thought the same thing about the Scott Cramer thing for the Moment of Truth videos but didn't think it was worth bringing up because I think he shouted out Scott in his second video about it? But I still felt a little weird about it so thank you for validating that lol
I was in my tmg era about 5 months ago, i’m still blasting their songs tho lol. They were my comfort youtubers so this really sucks
@@EF-kk3vh actually I might be a little overopinionated on this lmao probably just from being a former fan of Cody’s and current fan of Scott’s, but it definitely felt like he only shouted out Scott after some (very reasonable) pushback, and it was very quick and only in that single video, when he’d done videos on the same things Scott had done (like that tattoo show and siblings or dating). It’s a rough subject because obviously anyone can make videos on anything and Scott clearly doesn’t own the rights to commentating on public entertainment (especially since cody wasn’t the only one who also made videos on those subjects) but it just felt more consistently “taken” from Scott than any other creator, at least that I’m aware of. I just remember a lot of people being like “Scott had no right to be upset” when I’d argue he actually kinda did, and I don’t even remember him being all that upset lmao
I got more suspicious when Kelsey mentioned on the B&C Podcast that her and Cody still hang with David Dobrik. That to me was 🚩
@@coffeehag oh shit •_•
Adore the amount of “I knew they were bad comments” that appeared here and vanished after they clearly got to the part where the video said this isn’t useful
It’s incredible really
Meta-herd-mentality lol
i always hate those type of comments, im glad it was brought up
They always gave off those vibes. It was so obvious lmao don’t tell me you guys didn’t notice? (It was not obvious. I am using to power of hindsight and to reanalyze seemingly inconsequential moments, things I had previously excused as “drama,” and things I didn’t know about at all. I am putting together the full picture, and acting like I recognized it for what it actually was from the beginning)
To be fair though, there probably _are_ a lot of people who saw this coming, especially those who heard the abuse allegations and slurs, and didn’t stick around to try and defend him. But I doubt that most of them would’ve waited until now to call them out, and they’re not the ones saying “I saw this coming.”
Well, this aged well.
@@amyk.2500 ehhh it certainly aged
Yeah I wouldn’t say it aged well, I think he could go into a deep dive on himself with this one. My friend and I both had a work through our own internalized views when this situation came out bc I knew a lot of people in the space looked up to him like drew and Danny and kurtis and I stopped watching Cody a long time ago bc i thought his content got to gross and cried for me personally but my flatly was still a long time viewer so it was really eye opening to talk about our reactions to this situation and how it takes time and time again to see how your brain reacts to different situations and work through our internalized masaginy
past behaviors do matter. he was 25 hooking up with a 17 yeat old.
What bugs me about this shit is that all of these type of influencers will jump onto roasting any female celebrity for wearing a weird outfit. But advocating for violence against women? Who cares!
Noel and Cody, do they do that?
yeah cause cody and noel are known for roasting female celebrity outfits!!!
@@xxmuyaxx Cody has made numerous videos on outfits worn to award shows so yes
@@Fran-le5pk I see I see
i mean, cody is friends with a convicted r@pist for years so that's not shocking lol
The most eye-opening thing about cody and noel's situation is the fact that men with such a large female audience can still be so ignorant to (and dismissive of) the female perspective. Andrew Tate is a physically violent and outspoken misogynist who advocates for and perpetuates manipulation and objectification of women, and all they have to say on that is "oh, his male fans will eventually grow out of it." That's just so completely ignorant coming from men who will never be the recipient of Tate's harmful rhetoric. A man that is enlisting countless young men into his fucked up vision of male/female relations IS damaging and IS dangerous, and to think that it's not only shows your own privilege and distance from such discrimination. They were so scared of Tate stans coming after them that they alienated their own fanbase who were expecting something a little more meaningful for them to say about an alleged sex trafficker and known abuser. This trend of male commentary youtubers exhibiting the bare minimum of actual feminist takes while largely laughing at or making light of dangerous men is honestly vile. On some level they must think that this will make them appear to be "one of the good ones" to their female fans, all the while they don't actually have to do any work educating themselves on feminist issues or take a step back to think about how maybe these misogynist alpha men are not just "cringe content" to the women that their views actually affect. Sure Tate shouldn't be given as much attention as he's getting because it's only sending more men to his content, but they literally had a whole conversation about him on their podcast anyway, a conversation that literally included the words "I'm not anti Tate" which speaks volumes.
Tate has never been charged with assault, the woman in question said that it was a kink thing and that it was consensual. I think Tate is stupid and awful and I don’t support him at all. I don’t think that they knew the severity of Tate, and honestly I kind of agree. Tate thrives off of hate and coverage of him. Plus, he’s right, since about 2016 the red pill community has existed, and once Andrew Tate is gone, someone else will take his place. He’s seen so many of these people come and go why would Tate be different. I do think Noel’s word choice was awful and he shouldn’t have said he wasn’t against Tate, but I think it was just an oversight.
@@lumenx7499 if tate thrives off of attention, why create an entire episode around him? if you don’t want to give him a bigger platform, maybe don’t mention him at all. it’s pretty simple.
i aint reading allat 😂🙏
Especially given that he’s just been arrested for human trafficking
@@emmettjoynson35 then don't read it :/
I think there's something to be said for "minor accusations" being held without critique because everybody makes mistakes (to an extent). When someone ends up in the news for doing something much bigger and much more detrimental, it adds context in a way. It shows a pattern of behavior, instead of small isolated incidents. Just my take. Love your videos as always :)
I agree! I think we often brush these things aside, not because we we don't want to deal with it or are too nervous too, but because it can feel like a very singular event. like, maybe they just phrased something wrong or maybe we're misunderstanding. but when something bigger happens we realize that, oh, actually it might have been signs of a pattern after all. hindsight and all that.
@@greyisnthere my thoughts exactly
I definitely agree. I also think the reason folks try and get in contact with commentary channels regarding that seemingly minor stuff is because they know they don’t have the platform to do anything about it. IMO, there are two main factors to effectively calling attention to someone’s missteps online: content and messenger. Content is what’s being said. More serious accusations are more likely to gain traction. Messenger is who’s saying it. If it’s someone with a bigger platform or a more solid reputation, they’re more likely to be listened to. If a tiny channel were to make a video/post/comment calling out one seemingly minor mistake one creator made, they’d get very few people listening, and those who did would probably say they were blowing things out of proportion. But if they get in contact with a bigger channel to talk about it, the bigger channel might have more claims to talk about than just the one, and make a more in depth video more people would listen to.
I know this from experience. A creator I watch semi-regularly has a video up from four years ago where they repeatedly misgender a trans woman. They’ve shown themself to be an ally in the time since, so I’m not trying to cancel them or anything, but it makes me uncomfortable that the video is still up. When a similar situation with another video was brought to their attention they took it down, so I genuinely think they’re just not aware. But all my efforts to inform them (comments, DMs, etc) have been futile. If I thought it was something that needed to be called out, rather than simply brought to their attention, I can totally see myself doing similar to the folks Duncan mentioned and trying to tell a bigger commentary channel about it.
i agree im kind of confused why duncan didn’t seem to have this take, i love his videos but it seems really obvious. as well as dismissing people saying they’re jumping on a bandwagon by saying something was off. something was off people have been saying it for years. just now that feelings been justified so people can act based on a fact not a feeling and him being entertaining was worth ignoring a feeling but not something substantial
Yeah definitely. For me a moment like that was when they made the video about that "40 year old virgin" guy. I'm asexual and i used to have a lot of self esteem issues because of that (like there must be something wrong with me if i still haven't done the do by this age. Even if i don't actually want to) And a lot of the jokes they made in that video just made fun of the guy for still being a virgin at his age.
I remember that made me uncomfortable enough to stop watching for a while but i still justified it "they don't have my experience and don't know those kind of jokes can hurt people like me" "i don't want to cause drama" In the end i never voiced that complaint but now i definitely feel like i should have tried. I can't expect people to change if i don't say anything.
Still though i don't think it would have really reached them.
Bro was ahead of his time😭
I don't think Cody and Noel are bad people I think they were being cowardly and trying to avoid having to interact with tate in anyway. But that's no excuse it's not hard to condemn a human trafficker.
Yea especially they been on youtube too long. I bet they have better videos to watch about andrew's worst past
They did. Literally one podcast later.
He’s not a trafficker
@@jaceeeeeee he’s definitely been linked to trafficking
It's also not hard to avoid accusing people of crimes that they've never been convicted of, or even charged with. Tate's a cunt, but you undermine the argument against him when you base your anger around easily debunked misinfo.
ive said before about Cr1tikal, "i sometimes dont think that guy is as self aware as he thinks he is" and i honestly think that applies to a fair amount of commentary personalities. they build off of this "ironic" persona that ends up secretly being/ becoming their actual way of thinking when you learn more about them or watch more of their content. i think its like a combo of not being as aware as they think they are and a kind of self-flanderization
Charlie is someone I believe is a decent person, but he's a perfect example of the ironic persona and not realizing he isn't as self-aware as he thinks. He made some really dumb fencesitter comments in a video about Black Lives Matter and the murder of George Floyd that really upset me and so few people aside from me said anything in the comments.
@@Aster_Risk exactly- its not necessarily that theyre bad people its mostly just that they're out of touch and think they're not
@@Aster_Risk I'm glad you bring that up because I remember him reacting to a video of a black woman recording a Karen in a Victoria Secret store and all he could say was the staff were unfair, the security were unfair, and the situation was unfair. He couldn't say why and the reason why was obvious; racism. Everyone, including me, had to address the racism in the comment section because it wasn't address in the video.
I don't think Charlie is a bad person. He tries to stand up for vunerable people, especially women, as much as possible, but doesn't want to get too political--probably in fear of losing his fanbase.
When Charlie gets it right, he gets it right - but he can be an absolute fencesitter on crystal clear issues. Its the typical "My politics are kinda in the middle, I see both sides, so Im smarter" stance that is just very immature.
@@bethchills LMFAO KURTIS IS JUST LIKE THE REST OF THESE MFS WHAT ARE U ON ABOUT???? He’s a fake feminist/ally. He knows he has a majority female audience and knows exactly what to say to get them to support him. This happened with another commentary youtuber and he was revealed as having been verbally, mentally, emotionally abusing and neglecting his own gf. I don’t trust any of these mfs. Also, Kurtis still hangs out with, shoots videos with, and supports his friend racist, misogynistic friend Dean
This is crazy! Not only are all the issues with Cody covered but the insight into why other creators are only now talking about what happened. This means anyone close with Cody has definitely known about all of this for a long time. Cody isn’t the only one getting burned this time around
ngl I had a dream last night where kuncan stopped uploading because of climate change so this was a relief to find in my notifications
the lack of correlation between those two things is so funny
@@agneebags I think it makes sense
@@agneebags I also had this thought until I remembered how he was talking about how unbearably hot it was in his last video so like? Not the wildest thing to dream about lol
He doesn't have an AC
@@shochre6497 me neither
We need an update. He always gave off the typical frat boy vibes.
14:20 How is nobody giving @kuncandastner any sort of credit for at the minimum, addressing this before anyone else. A full year prior.
Almost 2!! years ago is crazy
its crazy lots of smaller channels were talking about this for at least a year/over a year and so many people still didnt pick up on it
I've been trying to post a comment about Colby Leachman, a r••••• Cody is friends with, but youtube won't let me post it. But, he was platforming this dude for a long time and has been in pics with him as recent as 2021. His friend committed the act while in college with Cody and they've continued their friendship for 10+ years. Finding this out is why I stopped watching Cody
Oh my God, yes. I remember when the Tana Mongeau thing happened, a lot of people were calling Cody out about Colby in the comments of his videos, but the comments would all get deleted.
So am i! TH-cam auto delete my comments that mention his name/ the things that he had done. Weird.
I actually had no idea about the Breitbart standup, really makes me look at Noel differently. If he ever addresses it, him saying he did it 'ironically' won't cut it for me. As for Cody, it was always weird to me how the Tana allegations got swept under the rug.
Alot of people swept it because Tana wasn't reliable and stuff
I think he was just a super dumb immature 20 year old getting paid to do a gig
@@sillymiaow true, but I think any accusation of SA (since that’s what I understood the allegations to be, correct me if I’m wrong) should be taken seriously, regardless of who it’s from. Especially since the type of influencer Tana is might lie about this sort of thing for attention, but I highly doubt she’d come up with a story that could stand any scrutiny (Paytas did a similar thing a while back). Getting more eyes on it would only make the truth come out faster. If nothing else, I find it very weird that Cody didn’t respond at all. Personally I would find that kind of accusation very offensive and make sure to make my side of the story known, even if that’s “I’ve literally never met this girl, she’s lying.”
@@thedestroyasystem i mean they did videos together back in the day he undeniably at least had some sort of friendship with her
@@thedestroyasystem ya I would NOT ignore SA allegations and I'm just a regular shmegular person... Like I get maybe not wanting to turn it into a big thing but why not at least a post saying "nope I don't do that shit"?
i think the “don’t want to give it attention” is stupid when you make him the title and thumbnail. that looked like an andrew tate video, they were already giving him attention with that.
Also another thing the Andrew Tate tag on Tik Tok has over 7 billion views he was already given way more attention than Cody or Noel could’ve given him.
good point lol
I remember this sort of misogyny being prevalent during the 2000s to 2015s and I'm so unhappy this shit is making the rounds again. I don't want to see girls going through the "not like other girls" phase in order to distance themselves from the shame of being sexually objectified.
I like Cody but it's easy to forget that he was a genuine frat bro. It's not just a character that he plays for fun. He was actually a playboy that engaged with that culture and he's admitted it before. A bit ago it came out that one of his college friends was accused of sa and I don't remember the case much but it was a known thing and the guy was associated to the school in some way so it was swept under the rug and Cody was still seem in photos with him after. That started making me feel a certain way about him. He responded pretty well to criticism a lot of the way so it's hard to feel that his slips are intentional and he has boomer energy a lot of the time so it's not crazy to say maybe he just wasn't on social media that week or something but still. I've been taking a break from Cody. I don't like the crypto thing they were on. I don't like that they were so vanilla on Gary Vee. I don't like that they were so vanilla on Tate. I think he can do better so I don't want to write him off completely but yeah it's understandable why people would if they feel that the Cody we've seen is inauthentic.
This comment is unintentionally hilarious, i think your looking to far into it its not that deep fortunately.
@@emmetmahoeny957 you really take the time to make this comment just say is that deep as an argument ???I don’t shit this dude but really a least argue you don’t agree
@@eddyalonsomoramorales6069 lmaoooo am I reading a riddle?? this comment is also unintentionally hilarious :)
@@emmetmahoeny957 Cody got you down bad doesn’t he you have responded to a least 4 comments in this channel just start yapping any time somebody’s says something about hero🤣🤣🤡 without arguing why again🤣🤣
@@emmetmahoeny957 my man is friends with a pedo
Yeah is not that deep🤣🤣🤣
What’s really terrifying about Andrew tate to me is that he says he goes to Romania because of how women in Romania are. There’s an excellent article I highly recommend everyone read called “cockblocked by redistribution: a pickup artist in Denmark” which talks about the economic relationship to cultural values. Women in scandavian counties are more empowered culturally and are able to confidently reject the ideology of an Andrew tate because their economic empowerment literally makes them less dependent on men. In poor Romania , patriarchal values thrive because women are dependent on men. Cultural values are justifications of existing economic relationships. This is something we need to think about if we want to fend off this kind of violent patriarchal misogyny and it’s normalization. As always study Marx
Thank you so much!! I'll go read this article. It's really amazing and insightful how we can learn so much thanks to people like you sharing knowledge. Thank you again.
No… As someone from Eastern Europe this isn’t the case with younger women. Most women stand their ground and are able to reject people like Tate. Most women work for themselves and aren’t dependent on a man. However there are other factors at play. Romania and other parts of Eastern Europe hold much more backwards views on stuff like misogyny and are generally more conservative. Most people have higher tolerance or acceptance of misogynistic rhetoric. That fact is often used by Western men to fetishise Eastern European women. They see us as these white women with blonde hair that haven’t been corrupted by the Western “woke culture” and globalisation. That seems to be the case with Tate. The way he describes Romanian women is very wrong and is not the reality at all.
The biggest danger here is Andrew manipulating young impressionable Romanian women with his money and the fact that he’s American. Many young Romanian women can fall for that because of little job opportunities.
@@justsamoo3480 so you agree? The OP stated that the problem with Romanian women and AT was that there’s a power imbalance created by the socioeconomic disparity in the country?
You said in one statement that most women work for themselves but sum it up at the end by saying that the problem with Tate is that Romanian women may see him as a job opportunity because he’s American and wealthy?
While I get the idea that Eastern European women have been fetishized to the point of their losing identities to men like this is accurate the final paragraph contradicts your initial claims.
great take thanks for your input. Happy seeing Tate get banned from the major platforms.
@@justsamoo3480 nigga why would u say "no" if you're gonna end up agreeing with what dude said 😂😂
I used to watch them and remember watching their video on Girl Defined and how they kept making a lot of sexual comments on the two women, and it made me really uncomfortable so I stopped watching him for the most part, and I used to mod for a youtuber on twich, and we raided Noel on twich after the stream and he was saying some misogynistic stuff that upset our audience. It seems like the casual sexism is just part of their brand for while and I had assumed that the people watching had realized that they were at least somewhat like that?
Yeah I can't remember who said it, but someone talked about girl defined in a video very respectfully. They brought up the fact that maybe being sexualized without consent is why they dress the way they do, which I could totally understand. Not saying it's right to force on other people, but I also have been dressing more modestly in public for the same reason. Tired of getting comments and stuff.
I just don't think they're feminists lol (Cody n Noel) so I don't really look to them for that content. We need a higher standard for feminist men than 'at least they don't call their girl a b!tch'
@@mightymeatymech You're thinking about the previous video on this channel, which was about Abby Shapiro, not girl defined, but the point definitely stands here. When I watched that video I actually thought of the Cody KO Girl Defined video
I remember that video! That was the first one I saw and it really upset me how he was treating them! I HATE girl defines but I felt they were being sexist and gross with their "commentary" Gave me gross vibes
I actually tried to watch his vids before and never really understood the appeal of Cody, to be honest.
Just found him annoying.
Exactly. Cody always gave me the feeling of arrogance and i wasn’t ever a fan really. But that one video was so bad to me. But when i said it, i was called out for “defending” Girl defined, which I’m definitely not. Idk Where I’m going with this. It’s just cool to share this in here, now that i see more people agreeing with me
i used to watch a lot of cody ko but i think his videos loss a lot of quality over the years. it’s not that i’ve grown out of the genre of commentary at all- but i feel like his videos have become more reactionary than actual criticism. his videos now feel stale where i personally feel like the quality has been diminished by the quantity.
Yeah I very much feel that. It’s like he didn’t evolve much as a creator, so his content now is no different from any reaction channel. He just watches a weird video and goes “wow that’s weird!” (Or at least in the few videos I’ve tried to watch- it could just be that those are the ones I clicked on)
While I never subscribed, I did watch a couple of his videos back in 2018, and possibly 2019. It was from the Girl Defined one. That's how I started.
No offense to the creators or anything, it may have been too fast paced for me at times.
Yeah, I’ve also felt that recently, I think it has to do with his subscriber number. Back when he had a smaller audience he would actually make a commentaries and give his opinion and even roast the person on the video he was watching but he also started getting in trouble with the things he was saying by other audiences and as his subscribers grew, he kinda has backed away from that and has just been making more reactions.
Whelp this aged weird...
This video feels like foreshadowing in hindsight. There needs to be an update.
Loll I saw this vid on my recommendations after watching the D'Angelo video about him
i think what rlly hurt a lot of their audience (including me) is the fact that they have previously and repeatedly gone after women for doing much less and making a lot of content out of it, especially when reacting to creators like girldefined who actively talked somewhat badly of men - yet when a man does something 100x worse they suddenly have nothing to say :/ it just kinda shows that if something hurtful is not affecting them directly, they don’t even care about it. Also over the past year i’ve kinda been distancing myself from noel after a couple comments he made and always felt kinda bad about it but ig not anymore lol
Because the girl defined thing was sooooooo much funnier people need to realize it’s a comedy channel first and a commentary channel second
@@trynagocrayz12 when your values and beliefs are such a big part of your platform and career, people are going to stop supporting you if you betray those values. if they wanted a comedy career where their political beliefs don't matter as much, they should be stand-up comedians instead of internet personalities. i mean, *personalities* is in the name.
@@neuroatypicalkirby2 I would argue there values and beliefs aren’t a big part of their platform at all, people like them because they are funny, they tell good jokes and make people laugh, there popularity has very little to do with politics and their beliefs, that’s why this will all blow over and have 0 effect on them
Girldefined never talked bad of men tho?They literally put them on a pedestal
@@jjjiiddppeew1810 literally??? And honestly, SOME of their advice wasn't even THAT bad
Never got into Cody and Noel. Not gonna say I’m any good judge of character cuz I loved Gus Johnson, but their sense of humor (at least when I tried to watch em) was pretty reliant on gross out stuff and that’s not my thing. I’m not surprised they’re getting backlash, though; if nothing else, being on the internet for as long as they have made it inevitable.
I second this, I definitely didn't like the fratty kind of humour they had and still have going on, it always seemed so superficial and childish to me. Also getting famous cringing at other people's videos doesn't really give the best vibes or at least not vibes I enjoy engaging in.
Hmm I was into Cody Ko years ago and gross out was definitely not something I recall. Maybe that’s a new thing that developed, I would call it more so like a bit juvenile. He reminds me of how me and my friends talked to each other in highschool, with just intense surface level personal attacks as a joke that we never meant genuinely. But I tend to kinda step back a bit when a creator gets super popular and “brandy/businessy” anyways
@@monhi64 it’s possible I’ve misremembered stuff, I just remember a lot of dick jokes when I tried to watch Noel and Cody together. I mean, they called themselves Tiny Meat Gang, ffs. Not that I’m totally against that, but it’s low hanging fruit, and when it makes up the majority of somebody’s humor I find it uninteresting. Immature is definitely a good way to put it. It came to mind when I was writing this, but I felt like it might be a bit harsh since I haven’t watched them in so long, so I decided to try and go with a more neutral descriptor. Thinking back on the kind of content they made though, the shoe fits lol.
i got into them back in 2017 (i was in 8th/9th grade at the time) when they first came onto youtube, but as i got towards the end of HS something really felt off to me so i started watching less. i think what finally got me iirc (it’s been years and i have an awful memory and i remember this vaguely) to stop watching was a video i saw of noel apologizing for using the t-slur? again i vaguely remember this happening so idek if i made it up in my head but all i’m sure of is that after i stopped watching cody (but kept watching noel), i dropped both of them completely when noel apologized for something. i only remember him making an apology video and vaguely what it was of. but i agree w u that their humor was/is very juvenile and i think i realized that the frat-bro humor wasn’t actually all that funny as i matured
Same! I really wanted to like them since he was part of the vine commentary group but I just couldnt get into it. I know it'll sound fake now but he always gave me weird vibes
andrew tates influence on adolescence is horrifying. misogyny is very much alive, even though many people (mostly non-women) deny it. stay safe y'all
Lol
Lol
based romanian police
I never got into Cody Ko's stuff, but for years I've seen people put him on a pedestal - and that in itself made me wary. I enjoy many creators in that genre, such as Kurtis Conner and Jarvis Johnson, and it has always made me uncomfy when people idolise them for their opinions. I mean, as a woman and a member of the lgbt+ community, I definitely understand why they do - it used to be very hard to find a man in commentary who stood up for women and minorities, or a woman in commentary who wasn't relentlessly bullied for actually expressing activist stances, and so the safe space they create is a very important and useful one. However, when these men are lifted up for basically doing the bare minimum of saying "sexism/racism/etc is bad" or making fun of someone doing those things, it leads to a position where their downfall is 100% inevitable. I'm not defending Cody here, I think not outright condemning Andrew Tate is despicable, but when people act like a creator is perfect, it hurts their community so much more when it turns out they aren't.
My personal favorites are Chad Chad, Jarvis, and Kurtis in that department because they always stand up for what they believe in, specifically Jarvis. He gets a lot more serious in a lot of his funny videos and I think it’s great. Chad Chad doesn’t really cover serious stuff, but it’s so refreshing to see a woman in the big commentary names. And Kurtis always adds a disclaimer when he makes fun of women to say that it’s not just because they’re women. I love Drew and Danny, but they talk about Cody a lot and kind of, like you said, idolize him, in a way. That’s why I started watching his content
@@yoongiverse. as much as i like kurtis, his understanding of women's issues is extremely surface level and he tends to infantilise women very often in his videos, like they can't deal with the consequences of their actions
@@yoshita4140 I really don’t think he has a savior complex but sometimes it seems like he does. Also what do you mean by the acting like women can’t handle the consequences thing?
@@yoshita4140 i haven’t really seen videos where he infantilises women, are there videos that you have seen where he does? because i’ve seen some where he does hold some women accountable for toxic behaviour
@@yoongiverse. so why is kurtis still chumming around with Dean
Hoping to see an update with the new allegations. Great video regardless!
I unsubscribed from Cody years ago because I felt he had nothing interesting to say and came across inarticulate. To me, it always felt that he made fun of these wealthy influencers but actually just wanted to be one
I’ve obviously just started the video. But on the note of the andrew tate bit.
Background- I’m in grad school studying incel violence and far-right extremism in general. I’m also an avid TMG fan, I listen to their podcast and even other podcasts that belong to TMG studios. I watch both of their their TH-cam videos etc. I’m not as into Cody but he’s still part of it. So when I saw mainly Noel Miller and Cody Ko spend a 5 minute segment saying something to the effect of “Let people believe what they wanna believe, just ignore Tate completely.” I was annoyed, it was an ignorant take. They clearly didn’t know enough about tate to speak on the issue, and that was also frustrating. It was clear Noel had no idea the extent of Tate!! Don’t speak on something like this without research. Because not everyone has a right to their opinion if it has tangible violence as a result. Something I CAN fully endorse was Noel Miller saying it’s basically irresponsible to have Tate on for a ~debate~ or a clickbait conversation because it’s exposing him to a new pool of young men that maybe have never heard of him, and platforming him. I feel the same about creators that debate fascists and other extremists. But after the episode aired, they both fully evaluated why that was a bad take, made an extremely well informed apology, faced it HEAD on and didn’t defend themselves in the slightest.
I think there absolutely was a mobish wave about the situation that drowned out valid backlash. The bandwagon reaction and the “we always knew xyz” takes that were especially prevalent on tiktok from people that don’t regularly watch either of them was disproportionate. There were even videos from people jumping on saying it was an hour long conversation about Tate defending him, then admitting they didn’t watch the segment at all (it was like 5 minutes) Yes it was an ignorant take but the reaction was WILD to me and I literally study this. Yes it was bad. No it wasn’t feral-cancellation bad.
I do encourage people to also watch their apology/how they addressed the situation
Also *for sure* I don’t even like speaking on it because the last thing I want is to appear like a pick-me, or sound like I’m excusing someone’s actions, defend someone as a lil fan etc. I want to make it clear that the HEALTHY critique was valid
I hate when people say that what Andrew Tate is doing is okay because "he's just kidding" like even if he was, it's still toxic because so many people follow and look up to him for his toxic ideas, even if he is joking.
@@Getout634 and the thing is he’s absolutely not joking, he might say he is in order to gaslight people but he means every word and has the criminal history to back it up
where is the apology?
th-cam.com/video/4AN2ozYUOv4/w-d-xo.html here
Moral of the story, don’t become emotionally invested in people you don’t know. Also, it’s important to realize that good people can do bad things and bad people can do good things
Being that you have a very similar analytic view point to D’Angelo - your perspective seems like part one of the miniseries. I mean that as a wholehearted compliment.
They could've mocked him on being the star wars makes you poor guy and people would've taken it and there wouldn't be a controversy but the fact that they weren't even willing to do that feels kinda hmm... ya know? Like obviously you should condemn Tate's actions outright, but the fact that they wouldn't even roast the ostensibly most hilarious twitter thread makes me think they are a bit more than "not anti-Tate".
Wait holy shit andrews that guy????? Oh my god that’s amazing (and also the worst-)
WAIT THAT'S THE SAME GUY????????????
andrew tate is arguably the easiest person to make fun of simply because his opinions are so dumb lmao- he is charismatic but so were a lot of serial killers. i thought for a long time that he was being satirical, so when i found out he was for real it made it even funnier. he’s a sad lonely man who has a fragile sense of identity. and he’s violent… and a kickboxer. i’ve done kickboxing for 12 years those mfs are borderline sadistic.
Absolutely relate to the adhd brain rn ☠️ I'm so caught up in the Cody ko drama and the lesbian tik tok drama going on, it just scratches the brain different these days
Wait I’m curious about the lesbian tik tok drama 👀 can you explain what’s happening?
@@jaylaoliver6725 👁👁
@@jaylaoliver6725 everyone is breaking up , including Sedona the D1 basketball player
Lesbian tiktok drama doesn't hold back any punches, I'm doing my best to keep up myself
i usually only say "i knew something was up with them" when i really KNEW. like how during that time in 2016-8 (i think?) where everyone loved jeffree star and shane. i hadn't forgot either of their sketchy pasts of the old youtube days and the kinds of people jeffree hung out and went on tour with. when the public finally began hating them i was like oh NOW you see why i never watched shane's documentaries with you or why i didn't buy the palette? it's not just a me not liking a thing cause its popular.... pls
i think when people say they knew something was up disingenuously its a similar idea to when popular artists die and suddenly there's tons of people saying they were huge fans when they obviously weren't
Ugh, I've been there too. The amount of times I've been dismissed while trying to inform people about the shit their favs did is just depressing. When the tipping point finally came around I suddenly wasn't "lying" or "trying to ruin their reputation" anymore. Curious.
This video is about to blow up-
I am 23 minutes into this video and I just had to pause it to say this; I have never in my life heard a TH-camr speak with such honesty. I know it will never mean much to anyone else but speaking with this level of candor can be life-changing. This little TH-cam channel is going to change more of the world than you know
man i liked noel. the fact that he can be not anti-tate shows that he can excuse even violent misogyny and that completely ruins any positive perception i have of him.
@Tabitha Cakes yeah tbh I always thought Noel was a decent guy but some of his jokes/comments (cant't remember specifics) just rubbed me the wrong way and I unsubsribed too
@@unpreparedwithacapitalf Damn, I've rarely had that reaction to anyone who I already liked, it would take real action and not someone not going trough a bunch of reflection to not like them. You do you though.
@Tabitha Cakes thiisss
he literally finds animals suffering and in pain hilarious
i do think they always had a “feeling” about them but people just didn’t know or didn’t have a solid enough reason to justify it to themselves so they watched because it was still entertaining. and “i knew something was off” is how they’re voicing that.
I think it's absolutely fair to feel that way! It's the implied superiority behind "I'm not surprised because I could tell" that I think drowns out valid backlash
this is how I felt about noel at first. Cody was just boring alone so I stopped. but noel had a more distinct personality and after a few months of watching his content, I just dipped. I noticed it and just couldn't be bothered. I think another thing that might throw ppl off is the fact they have gf and seems very sweet and all that.
@@ggundercover3681 same, i stopped watching them for years, I started back a month or two b4 all this happened and I got the vibe of Cody being the type to sort of be like "i have my privlige, why worry about anyone else's problems", like he was never loud and proud about supporting minoritiy groups and just made these easy formulaic jokes that get boring fast
Yes I was going to say something like this to add. Not to be adding fuel to the fire but Cody and Noel (more so Cody) always had a vibe about them. There was a video with tana and him at vid on or something and for some reason i didn’t like him only when he was with Noel. For a long time I didn’t interact with Cody’s brand or videos alone only when Noel for me was a buffer. But then his brand or persona seemed to be more relaxed and relatable. I should say before he did come off as a ashore completely and that’s why. Am I upset this happened yes, am I surprised no because TH-camrs bring out a persona that they know is socially acceptable. I do think it is interesting that he can’t seem to be anti Tate even though he’s a sex trafficker but quick to critique those same guys with a lower following.
I have to admit I got the same feeling. They feel a little more mature so I always got weird vibes from both of them. It feels like they’re the final bosses of commentary
Hey Duncan, i hope you’ll see this, but I think there’s an angle missing from your assessment of these reactions.
I think it’s important to distinguish when the accusations about a person are specifically about misogyny or SA, because when it comes to these reactions of ‘yeah he gave me bad vibes’, when it’s a woman trying to call out a man publicly, we get fucking burned alive unless we have a full court case worth of evidence behind us. How do you think the other commenters would treat a woman who goes onto the TH-cam videos of a popular man with a lot of social capital and says things like ‘is it just me, or does this dude give creepy misogynistic vibes? I don’t have any proof yet, but he just comes across that way’.
People do NOT like it when women speak up about misogyny. The irl version of this is how often women in a room will exchange a knowing look, but remain silent because the thing that just happened is ‘not bad enough’ for anyone to take us seriously and do something. So we file it away, and tell any other relevant women in secret, warning them.
For anyone to listen and take you seriously, the evidence has to be numerous, damming, and inescapable.
I say this as someone who went through the court of public opinion trying to voice my Metoo stories about two different men who were popular in local communities. Sure, some people believed me, but just as many were more than happy to blacklist ME and go for character assassination, nitpicking the story I told and bringing up anything that could spin me in a negative light, because I was less popular and well established in that group. Giving him up would have been a big sacrifice for that community, so people broke their backs to convince themselves that he was innocent. I was more disposable, because I was giving less time, money or resources to that friend group. So I was disposed of.
Unfortunately, this is a common experience for women. I certainly don’t have the emotional fortitude to call out misogyny wherever I see it and deal with the onslaught of reactionary abuse.
So yeah. I’m 100% the person you’re describing but with a VERY different context. ‘Oh yeah, it turns out ____ is a horrible misogynist and graped someone! Can you believe it?’
Oh yeah. 100%! I totally suspected. But I didn’t say anything about it because nobody would want to hear it anyway. Something had to happen that was ‘bad enough’, and then when that tipping point finally comes, every woman with a story will come out of the woodwork to pile on.
We aren’t lying. Or bandwagoning. Or trying to get attention. We’re finally being granted social permission to share the things that we’ve been sitting on for our own safety and well being. And that’s a horrible reality of cases like this, but it is the reality.
Fantastic comment!!!!
!!!
Exactly. This video lacks some much-needed nuance.
🙌🏽🙌🏽
this is a great comment! duncan always offers nuanced commentary and an interesting perspective, but i think he failed to consider other possibilities here.
Ngl this aged well.
What hurts and I think is very important to keep in mind is that Cody Ko, just as his peers (drew gooden, danny gonzalez and kurtis conner) have and have had a large amount of teenage girls as an audience. The issue with this is that many of us have grown up watching their videos since we were very young. I'll be dead honest, I was watching in 2016 when I was 12 years old and I'm still watching today at 18. Their videos did have an impact on my development as well as that of many of my friends, we were shaped by their humour and worldly views. I know they didn't ask for this and that it seems extreme but that is what happened, you want to be like the person you find cool it's as simple as that.
As a girl who would often hear misogynistic comments online by other male creators, Cody's (and his peers) videos felt like a safe haven, a sense of protection against misogynistic comments. It was where a grown man, a nice and funny guy, would also respect, defend and befriend their young female audience in a safe way. The best real-life example I can give is that family friend who you've come to see as an older brother, you respect and consider their words seriously. Suddenly though they talk down to you or another woman by agreeing with or off-handedly saying something misogynistic. It feels like a betrayal of trust but more importantly it kind of feels like a betrayal of protection, this is no longer the safe space that it was.
I think that's a huge part of why there is so much backlash, his brand is that safe space but it doesn't feel like it's there anymore which can be very confusing for fans. I also think that's why people were so quick to defend him in the past, you want to keep and protect your safe space. Any threat to that is very scary, I don't think he necessarily realized the strange relationship or situation he created with a lot of his fans and thus doesn't understand all the implications of his actions. Coming from a generation raised by the internet this hits different.
Very well said. You are articulate and express many of the opinions we have. Thank you for this. ❤️
I subscribed to Noel because I think the way that he laughs at his audience while laughing with them is like no other creator. I haven't watched one of Cody's videos in about a year or so bc I haven't found his content funny for awhile. I also, personally don't like the way that he went full steam ahead into capitalism, though he's never said anything that would make me think he that he's NOT a capitalist. At this point, I have no dog in this fight and I just hope that things turn out well, whatever that might mean.
same. i hadn't watched cody or noel for over a year and unsubscribed because it wasn't my sense of humor anymore. i had no idea about the slurs cody used and didn't think about them until all this drama. i hope it all gets sorted out to some extent
Noel is actually worse, he‘s done multiple fckd up things
I've seen it pointed out that his own channel suffers as he focuses more on TMG in general and merch and live shows
I tried so hard to find Cody's content funny ☠
@@briicksyy what did he do?/gen
I don't know about Cody but Noel has been this way for a while now. I did speak out about it but no one really listens when you're not a creator. I'm not interested in ruining anyone's career, I just dislike it when men make money out of revolving their entire image around feminism, although they are far from feminists. It's dishonest and ingenuine.
? That applies more to Nickisnotgreen and Kurtis Conner types more than Cody lol??
@@kaitlynm9463 I didn't say it doesn't apply to those creators. They all made money out of doing the bare minimum. People called them feminist icons for it and acted like they were saints. Same thing happened with creators like Gus Johnson as well. A closer look and you realize that they really don't give a fuck about feminism, what they care about is that feminism is profitable right now. This may not apply to all creators, especially not in the same way, but there's definitely a trend going on.
@@ozge8262 couldnt you say the same thing about the channel we're watching right now?
I agree to a certain extent, but I also think a lot of that has to do with audience reactions, not the creators' content or intentions necessarily. I think it's more about women being conditioned to overly praise any man who stands up against misogyny in any way, rather than these creators purposefully using that to profit off of women. A lot of them never claim to be the feminist icons they're lauded as, and I wouldn't expect to see deep, academic breakdowns of the patriarchy from their channels anyway. I would still rather have a man call out misogyny in a light-hearted way than not at all.
as someone who watches a lot of commentary videos, i think for me there is a general thing of like, i'm always a LITTLE worried there will be some kind of deep undertone of terrible ideology to things, in part because i have found in the past that if i watch or listen to a lot of someone's work, even their unspoken ideology tends to accrete in my head- like, i listened to hundreds of hours of ricky gervais's old radio show, and found that it coarsened my sense of humor, reinforced an idea that mockery to someone's face could somehow force them to be better people, a bunch of that kind of shit. so at some level, for less overtly political channels, i'm always looking for little signifiers, little hints that this person too is approaching the topic in ways that might be unfair or unreasonable or destructive or whatever, not because i necessarily care about their morality for its own sake- we live in a world run by monsters, the exact moral character of a youtuber probably doesn't matter much- but because i want to make sure that the shit that drip drip drips into my head when i am trying to relax isn't going to make me a worse person
so when people like kurtis connor mock shitty dudes, it's reassuring. but it's not much of a test, shitty dudes are easy to mock. when they shitcan gus johnson, a dude who still has a large and cruel fanbase, and who is unquestionably a pretty horrible person, that means more. when they work with someone i like, that's a good sign, when they work with someone i think sucks, it then puts me in a position of trying to figure out if i was wrong to think they sucked, or if they suck but maybe in a way that i can tolerate, or if actually they're aligned with this suckiness and i need to re-examine my relationship with their own work.
like, youtube is a place with a well known pipeline that draws people further and further towards literal white supremacists like stephan molyneux. there's a lot of money propping up shitty work that goes towards that goal- and not all of it as incompetently managed as prager u. and even outside youtube, you run into the shit like chapo trap house, where one of them turned out a.) to be some kind of sex criminal, who b.) dove into a pretty ugly subset of the right once that got outed. it's fuckin. i dunno, it sucks that it's all this hard for both audience and creators, but in general, i'm not surprised that there's this huge outsize weight given to tiny little signs, all the time
I feel like "be smart, be safe, and Andrew Tate can deepthroat a cactus" should be your sign off for every video
huh. funny how we are getting recommended this NOW (Duncan please make a follow up)
He won’t. He is a balding nerd that pretended to be a feminist
I hope people like these two keep getting called out for stuff like this. It's more serious than people think it is. I left a pretty mild comment a couple days ago on another TH-cam video that was talking about Tate and, almost immediately, I started getting replies from his fans saying women have everything handed to them and we don't really want equality, etc. There are too many people like that and they're gaining in number. Especially after the Roe v. Wade turnover, we need to be vigilant about fighting this. We can't just ignore it.
Honestly I think the "I always knew something was off" mentality happens like you say but in the opposite direction. People genuinely know something is off but gaslight themselves into thinking it's ok and they should ignore it because the creator is popular and people seem to like them. Then when the creator gets called out later, they are fully able to admit the problems with the creator to themselves. I've only been hearing about Cody for like a year but convinced myself that the mildly misogynistic, racist, bodyphobic etc. things he would say weren't a big deal, because he seemed so well loved it was hard for me to admit. Now I can feel like I'm not crazy and other people see it too.
I got weird frat tech douche vibes from when he was younger, but tried to shake it off that maybe he'd grown from it (even though I guess he didn't really show growth, he was just funny).
Turns out, nope, he doesn't appear to have grown out of it, just became more charismatic, code switched to the TH-cam ecosystem over the silicon valley one.
Exactly what I felt
I've always been uncomfortable supporting his content after he made some really ableist jokes about a disabled character in a skit he was commenting on. As a disabled person myself, I would never be able to forgive myself for supporting that kind of content, but I will admit that I have doubted my choice in the past. I've worried that I was overreacting because nobody had commented on it before.
I think sometimes, people say "I always knew something was off" because we often try to rationalize away our gut feelings without considering that our gut feelings are important. So that's the meta conversation happening here: those people may be bringing it up to get a cheap sense of superiority, but also to say that our gut feelings are often right, and we should listen to them.
Furthermore, you seem to think that everyone saying that simply wasn't saying that before, simply because you weren't hearing it. I think we need to stop trusting our vague impressions of "the internet" so much. We see a filtered version of the general landscape of opinion. There are definitely people who have been discussing this about Cody and will now be saying, "see? I always knew something was off! I'm glad the rest of you are catching up!"
Oh so this was going on from a long time
Yeah. A video is recirculating of Cody and Kelsey letting 16 yr old Emma Chamberlain try their vape for the first time
Foreshadowing at it's finest!!
totally understand the whole "i always thought something was off" thing. I usually hate when people do that. But this time it's me. I've followed Kurtis, danny, drew, and so many other commentary channels for so long. And obviously Cody is in that sphere, but I've only ever watched 3/4 videos of his, and never subbed to his channel. I always felt like he wasn't for me. In the sense that i could never feel 100% comfortable watching him as i felt w other commentary channels
i agree! he just didn’t feel as comforting or “safe”? maybe it’s just me though haha
@@laurtbh definitely!
Yeah, I got the same vibes. He just felt a shade more mean-spirited than those others, from what I watched.
Ya i could never understand why people found him funny, especially when he made a sexual joke about one of the woman on a girl defined reaction video
I haven't finished but I quit watching Cody after the Tana thing happened where she said he slept with her when she was still underage. Iirc, none of it got addressed, he and kelsey were both quiet for weeks, and the next we heard from him was announcing his engagement to Kelsey. All of it felt off. I never really liked Noel's sense of humor or the way people worship him for having basic empathy when it comes to women.
Omg!!! I couldn't handle watching the rest of the video and missed that! That's horrible!!!!!! I'm so done with following pedos online!
Wow I didn't know he was a predator, ewww how could Kelsey be OK with that? 🤮
Omg yes the engagement thing felt so weird for me too
idkk it’s hard to believe tana. she’s lied abt so much for clout. (like having a stalker, her assistant, her racist past much more) and cody with his racist past and weird sexual comments, they’re both problematic. so it’s hard to choose sides yk?
@@aleah8939 tana and cody made a collab on a video on tanas channel about 8 years ago, and he was definitely acting weird. Even though tana has lied, i believe her cus i dont think she would ever lie about this
really love your analysis as usual duncan! also wanted to add that i like how you’ve been switching up your backgrounds throughout your commentary lately! it’s fun to watch :)
I hope you do an update soon knowing the Tana allegations. Damn, sometimes saying that a TH-camr is terrible doesn’t just come out of nowhere, there’s always early signs. I wonder how Kelsey is doing…
@batzalkobatzalko3106 man I feel bad for her. I do wonder if she knew about Cody's frat bros charges tho.
she knows and doesn’t care. also apparently she took selfies with a dead seal’s carcass at the beach during their marriage proposal, so gross of her??
@@user-xd3jl1hk7g wtf 😭
Interesting how this video is getting suggested now lol
Small thing but I love that you said "...women or people affected by misogyny". So easily making people who are affected but choose not to identify as women feel included and considered
I have to admit that I do watch Cody sometimes and I even used to watch Noel a bit but I think even the people that watch them religiously can admit that they aren't as funny anymore. Their audiences have grown out of them and they seem to be losing touch with even their most die-hard fans. I'm not surprised that this happened when it did. The fraction of a cent that one of my views makes for them might not be important to them, but I personally don't see a point in supporting them anymore.
oh they totally became unfunny. idk what happened but it's why I stopped watching a few years ago.
Imo they're only funny together lol, alone they're just EH
Hell naw, noel has been dropping bomb videos
@@ggundercover3681 I disagree. I think Cody is funny.
Cody's videos have gotten lazy. How many jubilee videos can one react to
You shouldn’t blame yourself for not saying something immediately after receiving those early messages. It isn’t your individual responsibility to call him out. You also probably made a good call in terms of protecting yourself - you’re right that at a time when a public figure has an overwhelmingly positive public image, trying to highlight any accusation against them would lead to some fans crucifying you for it. I’ve been in that position before, and it was one of my most acute moments of poor mental health that I’ve ever experienced. It’s OK not to take on the responsibility of calling out (potentially) problematic behaviour every single time.
im also really disappointed in cody and noel. im a HUGE fan of them, theyve been comfort youtubers for me for the longest time. i still dont know how to feel, i dont want to think he’s a bad person but i dont know… i dont know. it just sucks.
the whole t-slur situation (hi im trans) makes it worse. cody said the word on the podcast (not as a slur, but in reference to others using it), he didn’t apologize for that. NOEL DID. i actually think noel treated it with a lot of care and made me feel better about the situation. but it still hurts that cody really just let noel take the fall. even when they clarified their stance on the andrew tate issue, noel was doing all the talking. cody just sat there and went “yeah i agree”. it just… really hurts. im sick of my favorite creators consistently letting people down. it feels like at any point my comfort creators could be ripped from me, and that’s terrifying. i want to give cody another chance, i dont think he’s some evil villain, but it’s gonna be difficult to forgive him honestly. but im still holding out hope.
another amazing video duncan. thank you so much for this, i always appreciate your different takes on these situations. it’s important to take a step back and look at everything as a whole.
yeah when creators are exposed for being bad people it definitely hurts because it feels like "damm can we have anything?"
Hey, you should check out Danny Gonzalez. I’d be willing to bet money he’d never do anything bad. He’s one of my comfort creators and if you like Cody you might like Danny too. Also Drew almost forgot. They’re wholesome down to earth guys and imo super funny. I’m sorry people do shitty stuff and let you down when you liked them so much. It happens way too often. I can't help so I’ll just leave with a recommendation. I don’t trust people on the internet to be good because most of the time stuff comes out and it turns out they’ve done or said horrible things. It sucks being let down. Especially when you wanna believe in them. Different content but have you seen ranboo? He’s pretty cool and if you’re into game plays or other streams to watch or have on while you’re doing something he’s great. And it’s a safe place there for us lqbtq+ folks. If you like art I suggest Moriah Elizabeth. These are my comfort creators and the people I trust. Sorry just throwing things out there since there’s not much I can do to help. Hope you’re doing well 😊💕
cody also said the n word in a vine and then only apologized on his patreon page :/ that never set right with me.
Hi I hope you’re alright! but also I would like to say that it is a bad idea to get super attached to creators. You’re essentially forming a parasocial relationship with a person who is bound to fuck up eventually. It’s very unhealthy to form such extreme attachment to these random people online because they will eventually disappoint you for some reason. and even if they don’t, it still is a bad idea. It’s hard not to because it’s fun being in a community and humanity thrives off that, but it’s a better idea in this case to simply watch them from afar and try your best not to essentially have your comfort based on internet people’s content, because that comfort can so quickly be snatched away, I’m not trying to blame you in any sense at all, just sharing what personally helps me in case it helps! I’m also a former fan of them, it seriously sucks to watch this happen
@@marie-zb5bh i watch a ton of other creators! danny and drew are some favorites 🥰 thanks for the other recommendations! (im just fine btw, just a bit upset/confused about all this. i hope youre doing well, too!)
This aged well
this is giving off the same energy as when gus johnson was revealed to be a domestic ab*ser and the commentary community has to pivot to save their own careers. what kind of small or midsize creator would want to call out a popular figure who shares their audience and basically could ruin their own reputation.
also you GOTTA do a defnoodles video!!!
What I’ve always found hilarious is that this “I’ve always thought there was something off” effect is clearly just part of human nature at this point, because even Jane Austen was cracking satirical jokes about this in Pride and Prejudice e.g. how people reacted to learning the truth about Wickham’s character. I think it’s just this desire to make sense of and come to terms with the massive change in information by convincing yourself you had already thought of it aka you weren’t wrong this whole time 🤷♀️
noel made the weirdest transphobic remark on their podcast a while ago and that breitbart standup you mentioned is another instance. It seems like he clearly has some bad takes that he's hiding and/or avoiding. Cody is an ex frat boy and has never shown that he actually has a deep understanding of sexism or literally any feminism related topics. People surprised by how they act should realize noel and cody never had critical thinking skills and have always just gotten points for calling out sexist/problematic stuff without any nuance.
i had to unsubscribe from cody ko after i watched a vid in 2020 and he says the f slur, and i was shocked but no one mentioned it in the comments so i thought i was crazy😭
@@dandelion4439 same with him saying the n word
Jesus you have nothing else better to do? just because you feel a certain way about how words were said does not mean that's the reality of it. you are a certified goomba.
Ok I haven't been watching Cody in a while but I've always found him funny. I don't know if I still do. But yeah he's commentary is always just funny,cringe,awkward humor etc. But I've never thought deeply about him having problematic behavior..
@@Isabellediaz112 he did? Damn
i personally cant accept noels apology. i havent really cared about tmg for a while. and im not just saying that to be "part of the crowd" or whatever. i genuinely have felt for a while that theyre just not as fun to watch. noel makes misogynist jokes all the time on stream and tries so hard to be contrarian and too above it all to denounce misogyny or social issues in general tbh. so i wasnt shocked when i heard about this but the fact that he had such a giant hang up to even simply admit that andrew is a bad person and that he doesnt support him??? andrew tate is one of the few examples of a truly bad person that is making the world an even harder place for women to inhabit and all noels reaction tells me is that, like a lot of men, he just doesnt care. im still on the fence about cody...
This is an incredible video very well put together and you were talking about this long before D'Angelo and so many others. I really look forward to your update
yes yes i rediscovered this video which i liked published a year ago, aged like fine wine yes