RATT - Round and Round - guitar lesson (solo) with tabs!

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ก.พ. 2018
  • Classic solo from the early '80s that is so much fun to play! :) Interested in my custom tabs for this solo? Keep reading below.
    If you would like to support the channel, you can send me a message and donate following this link: www.paypal.me/PDXguitarfreak
    I appreciate any support as these videos take a significant amount of my free time to create. Rock on! :)
    Want to purchase a copy of the custom tabs I display in this video? This is for the solo only. The price is $1.99. Here are the directions:
    1) Go to my PayPal transaction site: www.paypal.me/PDXguitarfreak
    2) Click on the Send button
    3) Enter the US dollar amount I listed for this video: $1.99
    4) Add a Note, including the name of this song/solo, and also your email address
    After I have received confirmation on my end, and everything looks good, I will email you a copy.
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ความคิดเห็น • 152

  • @PDXguitarfreak
    @PDXguitarfreak  4 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    Don't know how to read tablature? No problem! Check out my quick and easy lesson: th-cam.com/video/BLst2CxQy2c/w-d-xo.html

  • @brandonyankees1
    @brandonyankees1 4 ปีที่แล้ว +51

    Can't imagine growing up during that legendary rock era

    • @PDXguitarfreak
      @PDXguitarfreak  4 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      I was in the 7th grade when Out of the Cellar came out (about 5 months after I first picked up the guitar), and it was definitely one of my favorite albums that year. The videos were awesome too... RATT definitely were ahead of the pack (no pun intended LOL) when it came to their early videos :)

    • @brandonyankees1
      @brandonyankees1 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@PDXguitarfreak van Halen is amazing too ,I'm probably the only 21 year old listening to these bands

    • @64siskat96
      @64siskat96 3 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      @@brandonyankees1 no youre not. Dont think youre special in any way alot of young guys listen to this stuff

    • @jimmyjennings4089
      @jimmyjennings4089 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      I was 18 in 78 and im here to tell you i dont think there could have been a better time to be growing up as a teenager and a musician especially a guitar player, after Eddie Van Halen opened the door every guitar player after was kicking it hard because EVH set the dam standard so high in fact when i first heard eruption i almost quit but it was just to dam tempting to try and figure it out and when bands like ratt came out you had to have good guitar players or you just didnt matter at least not as much i cant imagine not having the music we did growing up it would be one boring life i can tell you that much.

    • @brandonyankees1
      @brandonyankees1 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@jimmyjennings4089 the only con during that era was not having music at your fingertips like today with phones and stuff but yea that must have been great

  • @ChinkRoy
    @ChinkRoy 6 ปีที่แล้ว +57

    "I can go back to it once a year"
    WHAT?! I listen to that album at the very least once a week aha

    • @adamprovo5964
      @adamprovo5964 6 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      I listen to Out Of The Cellar, Invasion, and Dancing Undercover every week....my fave band of all time!!!

    • @AleX-ux2qz
      @AleX-ux2qz 6 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Me too!

  • @philsalvage
    @philsalvage 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    80's was such a great time to be alive. Music, horror movies, movies in general so many classics. SNL was actually funny, sitcoms, Ronald Reagan... just a magical era.

  • @joelsmith4816
    @joelsmith4816 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Broke out of the cellar out of the cellar just the other night. Been about maybe 20yrs. Found what I was missin. Wow. A song I like just as much is in your direction. Then I'm insane. What a treasure.

  • @douglasgugel2752
    @douglasgugel2752 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    PDX FREAK RULES !!!

  • @TonyFuentesTV
    @TonyFuentesTV 6 ปีที่แล้ว +31

    Totally Nailed it! Best cover yet!

    • @PDXguitarfreak
      @PDXguitarfreak  6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Thank you Tony! I appreciate the kinds words!

    • @ColonelStraker
      @ColonelStraker 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      3:53 Confused. The fart is / is not part of Warren's original track??

  • @CrisKRA
    @CrisKRA 4 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    I really liked how you were laughing after playing that vibrato, made me laugh too. Great video!

  • @jeffmoore6279
    @jeffmoore6279 6 ปีที่แล้ว +10

    Dude you are old school like me. I was in 7th grade when that album came out. Good job on the tab.
    Great work.

  • @garrettgrant6049
    @garrettgrant6049 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    R.I.P. to ROBBIN CROSBY who passed away 20 Years Ago Today at Age 42

  • @johnsantos1348
    @johnsantos1348 ปีที่แล้ว

    I originally got a Japanese tab book in 1981 - I was playing all these songs then . First real U.S. Tabs that followed were the ' Guitar for the Practicing Musician " Followed by Guitar School ." it was then that others got on board . Years later the Play it like it "is series came out .

  • @devildozer
    @devildozer 3 ปีที่แล้ว +11

    Your solo is way more accurate than the other video I just watched by some guy named Carl...he's missing a note or two whereas you nailed it perfectly.

    • @PDXguitarfreak
      @PDXguitarfreak  3 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      Thanks! I guess one difference between me and most others that do lessons on TH-cam is that I take the time to dissect every note of the original solo and tab it myself, whereas others appear to be just reading a tab they found online (which is often wrong). :)

    • @devildozer
      @devildozer 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@PDXguitarfreak Wow, that is actually really impressive that you are doing the tabliture yourself, you've got a great ear and for that, I'm subscribing.

    • @tomkenny5864
      @tomkenny5864 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@devildozer I used to pay for lessons at master musicians he would play dokken tooth and nail and alone again solos lynch over and over on cassette and show them to me back in 1986

    • @richieranno5905
      @richieranno5905 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@PDXguitarfreak Great job ! You have a great feel. That "other guy" has ZERO feel :)

  • @jamminjimmy3848
    @jamminjimmy3848 6 ปีที่แล้ว +10

    Wow. You nailed this this.
    AWESOME job!!!

  • @NeilAloha
    @NeilAloha ปีที่แล้ว

    Another great solo played this years ago But since I re picked up my guitars Need a little reminder so I come to PDX thanks again bro ✌🏿

  • @kylevanderkooi7947
    @kylevanderkooi7947 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Thanks for the lesson! I think that vibrato slide was invented, or at the very least popularized, by george lynch. Can hear it a lot in his playing

  • @williamdistasio9358
    @williamdistasio9358 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I was watching Warren on some live Ratt solos and he holds his pick JUST LIKE George Lynch! Watch and see for yourselves.... and that slidey bit, that's a George technique all day long!
    I know that Warren borrowed a guitar or guitars from George or the other way around.....but I think Warren learned a good deal from Lynch.
    It's no wonder I loved Warrens style.....cuz I freaking LOVED Dokken and GL! Especially their early stuff from Breaking the chains and Tooth and Nail etc....

  • @bigblob27
    @bigblob27 5 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Hell yeah dude, you nailed it!

  • @StacyJamesGuitar
    @StacyJamesGuitar 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Great tutorial man! This video reminds me of Curt Mitchell videos. Old school! 🤘🎸

  • @crackuhpleez
    @crackuhpleez ปีที่แล้ว

    Dude, excellent - hell yes!

  • @Howdy699
    @Howdy699 6 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Your playing is incredible
    Love the videos

  • @chuckhanson7506
    @chuckhanson7506 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Some of the "little notes or glitches" is where it was comped together to create the solo.
    You can always tell the comp when it's slightly wierd...
    He played it many different ways live.... another sign of studio comping.

  • @AleX-ux2qz
    @AleX-ux2qz 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Hi PDX Guitar Freak!
    Thanx for the video, I really appreciate your lesson! It took me a while to learn this solo, and I am not as fluent as you are, but it's really fun to play it! Cheers!

  • @etherlords88
    @etherlords88 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Simple yet elegant solo! Warren DeMartini is sure one heck of an ace guitarist!
    Oh for the note, DeMartini always focused on Jazzy side and it was mentioned by him and others in several interview and he is considered one of very few jazz influenced glam shredders!

  • @Scream4vengeance
    @Scream4vengeance 6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Hey Dave! That was truly awesome, love that tone, Bro!! Some fine solo indeed...

    • @PDXguitarfreak
      @PDXguitarfreak  6 ปีที่แล้ว

      Thanks JC! I appreciate that! Rock on bro! :)

  • @Havanacuba1985
    @Havanacuba1985 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Excellent

  • @DC7ify
    @DC7ify ปีที่แล้ว

    Dude you are so awesome. Tabs by yourself can sometimes be tedious. Your tutorial was perfect

  • @drinkspecials
    @drinkspecials 6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Another great vid Dave!!!

  • @akadkins69
    @akadkins69 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    most excellent job brother

  • @Johnnyleealdridgeofficial
    @Johnnyleealdridgeofficial 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    You are soooooo talented please dont ever stop!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • @scootergreen3
    @scootergreen3 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    You are an amazing guitar player!

  • @juliAnarchist
    @juliAnarchist 6 ปีที่แล้ว +13

    Man what a great solo, those guys were brilliant. I wish i had the dexterity to play this smh

  • @TheGuitargary
    @TheGuitargary 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great job on the video.

  • @cbeserra
    @cbeserra 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Awesome!

  • @thomasw7779
    @thomasw7779 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I’ve been playing for 10 years and I’ve only bothered learning a couple solos, thought today is the day I learn the solo that got me into guitar 😂 look up a video and you have the same guitar as me, thanks made it very easy to understand!

    • @PDXguitarfreak
      @PDXguitarfreak  4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Right on bro, so glad I could be of some help :) Rock on!

    • @stricknine8623
      @stricknine8623 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      It was this song and "you're in trouble" that just sent me to another level of inspiration.
      It wasn't Eddie,....It was Warren DeMartini and Lynch. But Demartini the most.

  • @wormstain
    @wormstain 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Fantastic All of your videos.

  • @davidg8389
    @davidg8389 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great tutorial, thanks!

  • @crunkstr8502
    @crunkstr8502 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Awesome Lesson!

  • @martino5150
    @martino5150 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thank you!!!

  • @cbeserra
    @cbeserra 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Still don’t understand why you don’t have way more subscribers. Your content is as good as it gets for accuracy!

  • @NeilAloha
    @NeilAloha ปีที่แล้ว

    Thanks!

  • @GuitarFunWorks
    @GuitarFunWorks 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Out of the cellar - it's been awhile! I still like the songs and I still like RATT!
    Good choice!

    • @PDXguitarfreak
      @PDXguitarfreak  6 ปีที่แล้ว

      Thanks man! Long live the 80s! :)

  • @ColonelStraker
    @ColonelStraker 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    This was terrific. Definitely, one of my favorite albums of 80s, alongside Dokken as well as Def Leppard's Pyromania.

    • @ColonelStraker
      @ColonelStraker 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Warren's Isolated Tracks
      th-cam.com/video/SWU7_fHJxDk/w-d-xo.html

  • @michaelwilsford7097
    @michaelwilsford7097 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I know this is 5 years old but just wanted to try this solo. Great job tabbing and explaining this one. I wish you would've done the full solo a couple of times at the end. But that's just me. I wanted to jam along with you on it. Thanks for the great work.

  • @Dougs-Ear-Hole-Entertainment
    @Dougs-Ear-Hole-Entertainment 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thank you

  • @popstotexas
    @popstotexas 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Awesome lesson Dave!

  • @DarthBaeza
    @DarthBaeza 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    NICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • @fernandofernandez5719
    @fernandofernandez5719 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    good one

  • @ArnoldwilliamDow
    @ArnoldwilliamDow 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    The music was so good then it was our "internet" of the time.

  • @divadgnol67
    @divadgnol67 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    solid as usual. thanks dave

  • @countcrizack8581
    @countcrizack8581 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Please do back for more!🙏🏼

  • @Sciencebeard
    @Sciencebeard 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thanks \m/

  • @Me37368
    @Me37368 ปีที่แล้ว

    TBH, you could improvise some random fast notes and alternate between strings for the fast lick and then do a slide vibrato and it’ll capture the vibe

  • @creepymcpeepers
    @creepymcpeepers 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I wish I could play this

  • @abeyanb.b1169
    @abeyanb.b1169 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    最高です✨

    • @PDXguitarfreak
      @PDXguitarfreak  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      ありがとうございました

  • @swifteclipse9962
    @swifteclipse9962 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Jeezzzzz

  • @ewitkop
    @ewitkop 6 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Songsterr is way off, as usual. Where can I get the correct (this tab) in one place? BTW, thanks PDX!

    • @PDXguitarfreak
      @PDXguitarfreak  6 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Hi Erik, I use free software called Power Tab Editor. Unfortunately, I messed up and deleted it when I was cleaning up the folder. If you like what I did, probably the best way to go, is to take screen shots and piece them together. Sorry!

  • @drinkspecials
    @drinkspecials 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    love this tune. so much fun to play too. that's a helluva stretch there tho. but after a few dozen times it's not so bad. awesome solo Warren!

  • @robertanderson1043
    @robertanderson1043 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Did anybody else hear "Magic Man" at 2:23? 1/2 step away I guess, but the contour of the bend just sounds similar.

  • @davida6889
    @davida6889 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    You farted ...best part of this whole lesson ...dude I literally dropped my iPad when you tooted lol

  • @lorenzodegani2669
    @lorenzodegani2669 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    ALIENOOOOKEYYYYY

  • @Blixer7
    @Blixer7 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    New to your channel. But do you have the Warren solo to the song "Nobody rides for free"?

    • @PDXguitarfreak
      @PDXguitarfreak  6 ปีที่แล้ว

      Hi Chris, no I don't have that one, but perhaps I can add that to the long list of requests. :)

  • @solincillo
    @solincillo 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Where in the solo does the fart go again?

  • @FunkymetalBL
    @FunkymetalBL 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Awesome! DeMartini shreds and you did a great job on this. One of the greatest metal solos ever. Thanks 🙏

  • @arnonburns
    @arnonburns 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Dude your awesome,thanks so much,Im working on three of your lessons,this bark a t m,and hot f t,but that one gives me a headache though,,,i practice playing along with you,not the album,at varying speeds,,,,damn your good,thanks again so much,,,where can i make a donation?seemed like you mentioned it once.

    • @PDXguitarfreak
      @PDXguitarfreak  4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Hey bro, thanks for the nice words, and I'm just seeing this message now. I you would like to support the channel, you can send me a message and donate following this link: www.paypal.me/PDXguitarfreak
      ... Rock on! :)

  • @overcome8628
    @overcome8628 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Can we get tabs for this also? Please

  • @rrguitar1
    @rrguitar1 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Awesome playing dude!! So after all this time, how are you liking the evh striped? All stock still? I've wanted this guitar for a while now.

    • @PDXguitarfreak
      @PDXguitarfreak  6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Thanks bro! Yeah I'm still enjoying this guitar, and everything is stock. Well, I had one minor change to the guitar... a block of wood added inside the spring cavity to help stabilize the tremolo (otherwise the D-Tuna pulls the guitar out of tune).

    • @rrguitar1
      @rrguitar1 6 ปีที่แล้ว

      PDXguitarfreak I don't remember exactly when, but I may have read that at one time also. The trem is still active right?

    • @PDXguitarfreak
      @PDXguitarfreak  6 ปีที่แล้ว

      yes the trem is still active. It just prevents you from being able to pull up on it (you can only go down with it), but that's the way it should have originally been setup coming from the factory. Apparently, Fender didn't want to pay for that extra cost associated.

  • @DarkendSun
    @DarkendSun 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Damn Dave...Awesome, and the tone is spot on... Was you using the Pod HD500X ? If so, can i get that patch off line6 site... I love it bro

    • @PDXguitarfreak
      @PDXguitarfreak  6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Hey thanks bro. I'm using my POD HD500 here. I will upload this patch to the Line6 site from home tonight and let you know when it's there (and what it's called). Rock on!

    • @PDXguitarfreak
      @PDXguitarfreak  6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Alright bro, I just uploaded the patch to the Line6 CustomTone website... I titled it "EVH PB Lead"

    • @DarkendSun
      @DarkendSun 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Thanks man, your a cool dude for being so kind... I appreciate that

  • @Thatguy55595
    @Thatguy55595 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Can you give me some advice for getting the second part up to speed? It’s really hard.

    • @PDXguitarfreak
      @PDXguitarfreak  4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Hi KW. When I usually learn a solo for the first time, I practice along to the original song at slower speed. Most audio playback programs have a function that allows you to slow the speed of the song. I will usually take it down to about 50% speed, and practice there until it feels comfortable... then, I will raise the speed just a little bit, and play at that new speed until comfortable... I will then continue that process until finally I get to 100% speed. It may sound simple, but for me it works. Some solos take longer to get to 100% speed comfortably, so it can take some patience if you are trying to learn a solo that is challenging :)

  • @DarkSim77
    @DarkSim77 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Great lesson..wish you would do the even better outro solo..

  • @billsalvey
    @billsalvey 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    🤘🤘.

  • @paulconnell5399
    @paulconnell5399 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    3:55

  • @IDGAF_PLUS
    @IDGAF_PLUS 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Hey man, I know you're kind of retired from this but hopefully you catch this and are able to answer. You talked about slowing the solo down with editing software. Is there anything other than slowing the song down that you do to make it easier to transcribe (e.g. specific type of eq-ing)?.

    • @PDXguitarfreak
      @PDXguitarfreak  4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Hey bro, that's a great question. I will occasionally adjust the EQ in my editing software to try and make the guitar pop through the mix more. I don't have any magic EQ settings though... it really depends on the song and the guitar tone they used. I'll loop the section I'm analyzing so it repeats, and then I'll just mess with the EQ until I can pinpoint which frequencies need to be boosted to make the guitar in the original track stand out more... and sometimes that also means reducing other frequencies, such as the very low end, so other instruments like bass and drums are kind of minimized. But for the guitar frequencies, typically it's midrange that I'm focused on boosting.... but even with that spectrum, it can vary from low to central to high mids.

    • @IDGAF_PLUS
      @IDGAF_PLUS 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@PDXguitarfreak Thanks!

  • @russlockard2699
    @russlockard2699 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Warren is one of my favs. Do you see similarities to Lynch in his style?

    • @PDXguitarfreak
      @PDXguitarfreak  6 ปีที่แล้ว

      Yeah, they both do that sideways vibrato at times. I think Warren's style has more blues rock influence coming out through it though, and George does more legato stuff. I like them both, but tend to lean toward Warren more... probably because he's less dependent on effects as George is, and also because I like the blues based stuff a lot too.

    • @michaelmiglino6512
      @michaelmiglino6512 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      PDX Guitar Freak How would you compare them both to Steve Vai?
      Thank you for the awesome lessons!

  • @somebodystupidd
    @somebodystupidd 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    There is a distinct sound that I’ve heard in a couple songs that I really love but I’m not sure how to obtain. At 0:20 you overlay a second guitar, is that why that section sounds so good in the original? I can’t quite explain it but there is a very distinct sound and I’m not sure how to achieve it. Is there a pedal or an amp that helps with getting that sound or does it come down to the guitar?
    You’ve done a fantastic job with this video and I’m hoping I can learn this iconic solo soon :)

    • @Me37368
      @Me37368 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Yeah it’s a guitar doing a harmony with the other

  • @gabesgaming7064
    @gabesgaming7064 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Put me on my shell.

  • @gitarman666
    @gitarman666 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Nice, new subscriber
    Like to see a
    Back for more solo lesson!

  • @zombee38
    @zombee38 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I like your “hair”

  • @jacksonmarshallkramer5087
    @jacksonmarshallkramer5087 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Why aren't you playing a Crossed Sword Charvel? It always sounds better if it's played on the correct guitar.

  • @satchbooggy
    @satchbooggy 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    wheres the wolfie?? j/k your lessons are solid dude.

    • @PDXguitarfreak
      @PDXguitarfreak  6 ปีที่แล้ว

      I accidentally dropped it and broke the neck... ha just kidding :) Seriously, I only used this guitar instead because of the sideways vibrato parts... I don't really like doing that vibrato, but this guitar helps because I'm forced to stop my hand from going to far up the neck because my left hand just naturally hits the body while I'm doing it. I hope that makes sense LOL

  • @jessedover6175
    @jessedover6175 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Awesome. 🤘
    ( A little too much TALKING!)🤯

    • @PDXguitarfreak
      @PDXguitarfreak  4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      LOL, thanks for the feedback! What annoys me is when people do the lessons and talk about EVERY note... "so you play 7th fret of the E string, followed by the 8th fret, and then what you want to do is hammer on to the 10th fret..." I try to find the right balance :)

  • @williamlayton1827
    @williamlayton1827 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Is that your wife in the background noise?😂

    • @PDXguitarfreak
      @PDXguitarfreak  5 ปีที่แล้ว

      LOL if you heard anyone in the background, it's probably one of my boys, as the game room is right next to my den where I do the recording :)

  • @6stringgunner511
    @6stringgunner511 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Can you do a lesson on "Funky poodle" by WILD HORSES?

  • @ralphralpherson9441
    @ralphralpherson9441 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Wow, this is way easier than I thought it would be. Nice lesson. Must be Warren's hands adding all the soul that makes it sound hard...
    12:55 - plays the order of notes incorrect compared to tab on screen.
    *While editing* : um... lets breeze past that,.... no one will notice. LOL 🤣
    Clearly this dude has the chops, so I'll give him a pass.

  • @wadson990
    @wadson990 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Stranger Things 2

    • @PDXguitarfreak
      @PDXguitarfreak  6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I've never actually watched the show, but I hear it's great :)

  • @AtariForeva
    @AtariForeva 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I wish I could fake this, too complex for me.