This was just me ranting on stream about cashout and a bit about balance issues in the finals / piggyxdd / piggyxdd 00:00 - Cashout 03:45 - Balance 08:50 - Cashout #thefinals #balance #rant #proplayer #competetive
I still think the dev could just simply have a loading screen tips teaching player the important of finishing fight fast and track team’s location using scoreboard.
@@Thehackerguy2000 Let’s say you’re defending A and you know that there’s only 1 team in-front of you, push hard. Use your gadget early and Push fast with your team. You might think I’m telling you to be reckless but it’s really strategic. Think about it, if you wipe this first enemy team fast, third party won’t get the advantage over yours cause you have more time to prepared for them. But if you lose to the first team fast, no big deal, now you just become the third party that’s still ducking it out at B. Now how do you know if it’s safe to fight this team considering that third party might just appear out of nowhere? Scoreboard. The scoreboard show real time death of any player and their increased combat score. Let’s say pink combat score increase and they’re the one defending B. That’s mean they must be fighting with other team at B. So if you see purple start pushing you, it just mean pink was fighting with red. And here you go. Now you have a solid 40 seconds to fight purple knowing no one will come third you. Similarly let’s say Pink was defending B but one of red team member is dead and you hear no gun shot near you. You can also work it out that purple is the only team That might be pushing you. Now, here’s the harder part. Sometime, it be that when you’re defending. There’s two team that get wipe at the same team (as will be shown to you at the top left corner of your screen) This is where your team location is crucial. No matter what happen, always always make sure you never get sandwich between two team Even if you have to leave the cash out undefended Seriously, unless the cashout is almost finish. Just leave the location, better to lose the cashout than your own life. Cause as long as you’re living, you can retake it back And when you’re the one attacking a site and you know that a third party might come from behind you. (You will know this if you track the top left respawn timer) Hide if you can. Better to let the third party foolishly fought the defender for you before you comeback to take it last second But if you can’t hide from the third party. Or it a steal or lose situation No matter what Don’t get Sandwich by the third party and instead try to make the the defending team the one that get pinched between your team and the third party team cause Prioritizes killing the defending team should be the priority since they are the one that will throw their life preventing the steal
They should do that but also add a tutorial with video explanations. Like an overhead view of the map with marking of spawns, vaults, and cashouts with arrows showing map flow and rotations for macro play. Giving different examples of how the game flow changes based off of team wipes and such.
@@Alkalineman Yeah, it won’t work every-time. But that’s sort of what it meant to be a battle Royal. Though I guess it would be nice if the team that started the vault get some more benefit than the measly 2k they have now.
What about an exponential curve for cash out cash gain? Instead of it being a linear gain every 25% it could be where 25% would be 1.25k, 50% would be 2.5k, 75% would be 5k, then 100% or the completion of the cashout would be 10k total. The ramp up of money would make holding the cashout for its entire duration more rewarding and also give a chance for other teams to steal and have it be still rewarding and avoiding the game feeling snowbally all while the game would still be less rewarding for 3rd parties. This would also still encourage people to maintain tempo as the other teams that start late have far more money to give up, but not much more than the other cashout that started sooner. I really like the idea of making team wipes worth more as it would make those moments where there aren’t any vaults up yet but no time for steals feel better, as there would still be insensitive to go push a cashout just for the sake of wiping the team.
Actually not a bad suggestion, we would need to test it in a actual game to see how it would feel in a "lower" skilled lobby and a "higher" skilled lobby
No matter how you slice it, holding the Cashout through multiple fights from 0 till 90% only to have a heavy drop double barricade dome and steal it last second is a genuinely tilting experience. It rewards and incentivizes being a rat and playing like an absolute cunt, while the team that held for almost 2 mins gets fuck all to show for their effort.
Im really hoping the Would Tour tourneys test out a ruleset change like the one discussed in the video instead of just being whacky loadouts or whatever
Great take on keeping destruction in the heavy's kit while discussing nerfs, especially regarding the RPG. And taser should absolutely cancel abilities. A thought I've had to give the light class a level of healing utility more in line with heavy and medium would be giving lights a slightly faster totem revive speed to encourage sort of a "dash through the fight to make a rescue" role. curious about your thoughts on that.
Love these ideas! I think also with a partial deposit feature it could be fun for vaults to then be significantly larger & only one of them at a time when not deposited, but ofc 2 different deposit spots to choose between. Once deposited, despawn other deposit spot, then another vault can spawn while it's progressing to maybe double up the cashout & incentivize splitting the team. High risk high reward. Then ofcourse spawn 2 new deposit spots once cashout completes.
There should be a sudden death feature when time runs out. If youre grabbing a cash when time runs out you enter sudden death. Game ends when the cash box is flipped. If you die in sudden death there is a 3 second re-grab timer. That would be amazing for the ending moments of a match.
I think that the carrying the cashbox and getting money idea is good, however, the numbers can end up getting so precise to the point where 200 decides whether you qualify or not. Having someone just pick up a cashbox and not really having to do much which would intern put them out of the knockout zone would be so irritating because there’s not much you can do about that, if they are across the map
Changing it to 10% is not good imo Just because you lose that "pressure" aspect of the cashout gamemode. You also gotta think about the later cashout that have 15k and 22k. And if its at 10% people have a harder time doing a comeback in the game. You still need a comeback mechanic.
@@piggyxdd fair enough, i just feel like a big aspect of cashout is the massive money deposit at the end of the timer. keeping it at 10% both rewards the team for holding and gives the chance of a big play for a team on the other end to get the final deposit of the remaining cash and qual.
I agree with everything in your video, to add onto your point with gaining money based on how long you have the cashout: i think - if this change does happen - they will need to make it faster to steal because if its towards the end, you will sit there for 5 sec stealing just to gain like 500 cash, where as if it took 2-3 sec to steal it will make everything much more fast paced and will incentivise the players to stay close to the cashout rather than all fighting at different layers of a building while also making sure people dont just give up towards the end of the cashout.
This all makes sense, RPG should be about destroying and separating the enemy team (causing chaos to be able to do a correct engage), not about destroying enemies with damage. If not, simply being able to use 1 Heavy per team would solve the case (and the team would have to always be aware of the enemy rpg)
I have a pretty good idea for cashout, so yknow the whole issue with being third partied at the last second of the cashout, so all the maps for the finals have a cashout in a designated area or building, embark should put like a invisible or visible barrier around these areas where the cashouts are when the cashout time reaches halfway, and whichever team is within the barrier after the halfway point can respawn in the area and whichever team member is not in the barrier won’t be able to spawn inside or get inside the area in order to third party
So this technically would raise the stakes for cashouts, so let’s say your team needs to steal a cashout to win but you gotta choose the cashout where the timer dident reach halfway yet in order to get into the barrier and steal it, and this also can make strategic plays where one person in one team stays in the area of another cashout just in case the halfway point comes in, this is just a idea but I feel like embark can really flesh out this idea better in a way that makes sense for cashout
dont think gaining cash while holidng point works if they double stack the cashes because everyone will be fighting while the team that has cashout is just benefitting and by the time everyone wipes stealing wont be rewarding
The argument about nerfing charge n slam and rpg damage is also what I've been saying in all the discussions about it. I would even go as far as removing RPG damage entirely and give it a 2nd charge (however that would look cosmetically) to make it more of a strategic tool. The description of the class in game literally says "specializes in demolition and fortifications". Imo light class is already in a good state with most weapons having a very high damage output. The only problem is - as you said - "oh there is a he-" **dead** Only the top players are able to survive against a heavy. When lights with a bit less skill could also actually survive for once and use their abilites, that would already be enough. I see the meta as "Fragger, Fragger, Support". when heavy is less of a fragger we would already see them being replaced by lights or fragger mediums. One heavy would still be prefered for **the fortifications** (crazy, right?)
I think a pre-game planning map would be great. Like a Battle Royal where you choose where to drop. Text chat will help for solo q but I think we need a bit more. I was thinking like an rts or mmo map where you can draw on it, making arrows or circling an area of interest.
I might be dumb but yesterday when I was playing bank it it felt fun, I feel like they could've tried doing something with it instead. IMO it's overlooked by a lot of players, especially casuals.
2:41 when you get the wipe the very last enemy should explode/dissolve in much more coins (maybe it already is like that but I never noticed, should be obvious tho!). Would be a nice little addition and better feedback than the delayed wipe buzzer sound lol
I agree with your cashout change but would like to propose one revision. I don't think it should completely remove third partying but only reduce it's impact. One way would be making 50% of the cashout rewarded for holding and 50% for winning the cashout at the end. For instance, Team A holds the cashout 80% of the time and Team B holds for 20% and wins the cashout at the end. Team A would get $4,000 and Team B gets $1,000 for holding. The other $5,000 is given to Team B for winning the cashout. This way, it's still important to win the cashout while also making holding important as well.
That was a concern I had. At a certain point you have the win so it’s no longer necessary to defend. Then that team has the power to grief 2nd place. Maybe half the power between holding objective and stealing
I'm hoping they experiment with all this stuff during the "World Tour" mode they've announced. I think the $2k for each 25% plus $2k bonus for holding to 100% will work even better than people are imagining. Especially if they take your other suggestions. It's actually kind of bizarre how it feels like they haven't bothered to calibrate the rewards to the gameplay all that well. Basic stuff like teams spawning equidistant to vaults, providing more ways to win by modestly increasing reward for kills so that if you can't get a steal in time to earn sufficient funds to win (e.g., by stealing by the 50% mark - note how now there is even more continuous urgency to be stealing cashouts), you can compensate with kills and team wipes. Anyway, I'm just agreeing with you and repeating what you said, but if Embark were to put these changes in as the rules for the 2nd and 3rd weeks of World Tour, I think it's more likely than not that it would work. I'm less convinced of the need to nerf heavies because a team can run their own heavy, but totally agree that it's cooler when there is at least one viable LMH meta. I think you just have to buff the light class in some ways that casuals won't get steamrolled by. I wonder, e.g., if Thermal Bore is going to be a good gadget for solving some of the problems you highlight, especially helping light use more range (although I think that's probably too optimistic). Anyway, I caught some of your gameplay toward the beginning of Season 2, when a decent number of teams were starting to run LMH, and it was refreshing.
glitches should counter APS, it makes no sense that the APS shoots down the glitch imo. but then revert the APS nerf again. and i'd agree with your ideas
i wish they could just add a TDM Mode. Sometimes playing for objective is kind of unrewarding due to all the players playing like rats and terrorizing the game especially with people not even using guns anymore. You may as well add kill based game modes
I agree with alot of ur takes, 1 thing i dont agree with is balancing the game around the top players. U can’t get around the fact that most players are casuals. Maybe simple number changes could be different in quickplay than in ranked tournaments. Taser was really oppressive in casual, in ranked with good players it was a balanced gadget. Maybe ranked tournaments could get the pre nerf taser and the casuals can get current taser. If u catch my drift. Theres alot of disconnect between top tier balance and casual balance. So yeh thats why im saying this
The RPG should have an arming range 15-25 meters so that you have to use it at farther ranges. Make it team kill so can't just spam into a group fight. Allow players to shoot it out of the air and make it have a slower travel time which increases its difficulty to snipe.
my main issue with the game is the light class, unfun to play against, when playing against light players it literally ruins the game for me. the actual weapons im fine with, my main issue is the sniper and whatever random weapon they decide to randomly buff to oblivion for whatever reason (currently throwing knives). They cant balance light and they really need to figure it out. also invis has no place in any fps game full stop.
Yea, i play this game kinda casually and i pretty much came up with the same change idea of cash out Extra gradual reward for holding cash out longer More neutral spawn points More cash on kills (so it rewarda team successfully fight and contest more) Also, with more source of cash, gap of cash difference each vault can be decreased ao early vaults actually matter but there are chance for come back late game due to other cash source These changes not only deter 3rd party but also weaken "safe griefing" where a leading team can easily manipulate the match to have the worst team qualify with them. While it is a valid and unique strat for the finals, i feel like it is a bit anti-competitive and anti-hype, especially when it can be done with little risk and huge reward. Having other major cash flow make it harder to predict placements and control enemy's cash gain and griefing even have a chance to backfire as the griefing team might be knocked to 3rd place instead if they misplay Another things to address in the future is map design and cash box location because there are many broken cash out spawn right now.
@@piggyxdd you didn't get my point... like the Finals is about to GET TO THE FINALS like last second, last moment, like only the best team can make it... The issue with third party should be solved some how another way.. but over all - this would make like - just Hold the flag or idk - it would be just one of the hundreds of the games... I hope they would find another way to make it good. Peace.
@@Thehackerguy2000 sometimes you need to play a flank or an off angle away from your team to get a pick. You may take damage and that can leave you out of a fight for a while
Yes that would help a lot and I think the light should be able to jump as high as a heavy so that you can actually run away from them. You have to do all this movement tech just to climb a wall that a heavy can vault right up no problem. So you waste time climbing while they catch up to you.
What if tapping a vault would give you a coin, idk just an idea. Also, I am not sure how i feel about having kills be more rewarding because i like how the game is very objective based but i think an interesting way to do it would a portion of the money (20% ?) that gets taken away (-33%) goes to the team who wipes them. Though this could cause some problems where teams just suicide lol. l Also i think to balance RPG, you have destruction be the same or more for each charge as the original. I find it really sad when there like "Don't use RPG to break wall we need to save" like bruh. For glitches i think its pretty straightforward. Set time to 7s and make the effect STACKING, that way if you hit both glitches then they are glitched for over 10 seconds. I think contact would be a good change as long as when there are players in the air and the glitch actually like directly makes contact with them it glitches, not just on building.
Literally make it role queue and force LMH for balance and diversity. Having two of any decent ability feels incredibly oppressive. Double heal beam and double defib isn’t as tilting as double RPG but it’s still absurdly good and very boring-even in diamond
@@TahsinMiah-vc3fs I think it would increase diversity dramatically because it would mean all classes are played equally. I don’t think it’s possible to balance classes so that LMH emerges naturally and then maintain that for any length of time. One class will always be better than the others (and it will probably always be heavy), so they should just go the overwatch route so the gameplay is more dynamic.
Yeah I know it would force diversity, and honestly is probably the most feasible option. If role queue you need a light on each team so every team is balanced but I want the option of running LLL even if I don’t win or it isn’t viable. But I agree it’s just too difficult to have that flexibility and balance
Actually I walk that back, it would severely limit diversity. It would force a specific team comp, and meta would form around that team comp. We’d likely see the exact same loadout from all teams. Now thinking about it, I think this would drastically decrease the fun of the game by making the meta stale
@@TahsinMiah-vc3fs I really disagree. Maybe it is better in lower Elo, but the meta last season was absurdly stale. If everyone plays a different class then there is a lot of counter picking that can ensue. Maybe you run thermal vision for an invis light or start even using a motion sensor. Maybe with all the glitch grenades you run APS or perhaps the heavy stops running dome shield. Maybe dash light makes the heavy switch off charge and slam. There is a lot of strategy and counter play that emerges when the entire game isn’t movement support medium and 2 heavies with rpgs.
clearly the devs want heavies to reign supreme because they can't play there own game without them. It's clear they just want a fkn handout when they suck. Been saying the heavy nerf should have happened since beta, but all the bot kiddies cried for it, and look how that made the game turn out, near dead. Oof next time listen to me embark, too bad may not be a fkn next time games near gone unfortunately rip to not using a fkn ounce of common sense and real education from a top skilled player.
not really because the issue there again is gonna be that you have 2x heavies with 4 rpg rounds and they can keep dropping the cashout multiple times making it almost impossible to steal if its in a building with multiple floors
Another thing is that they should get rid of gadget and spec swap altogether, even if the mode goes back into rank. You should just be able to switch spec and gadget freely when respawninflg. The limit hurts the meta development and also discourage casual from trying out the game mode
>get money when holding the cashout this would make going to attack a cashout completely boring. what's the incentive to attack when all your potential money is being drained right before your eyes? think about it from an attacker's perspective. getting the vault in the cashout first would be more powerful than it already is. yes, 3rd-parties are annoying, but i don't think they're annoying enough or common enough or deadly enough to warrant changing the entire game. also, have you ever gotten a cashout at the last moment, and been qualified for the next round because of it? if everyone has an advantage, no one has that advantage. >incentive to tap vaults the people who spawn further away are the attackers of the vault, the people who spawn closer are the defenders. either way they both get to the vault, usually while it's still being tapped so i don't really know how it's not fair >kills and wipes should be more rewarding you think there should be less of a focus on objective? maybe i can get on board with giving more money for kills, but wipes already get remove 30% of a teams total cash, so i don't think it needs to be changed >light agree with almost all the changes-- - tazer nerf doesn't need to be reverted, it's still really good - cloak nerfs definitely need to be reverted, but do NOT need to be more visible. as an ex-light main who used to use cloak, people could already see (and hear) me very well and pick me off easily >heavy heavies need high damage because they're slow asf and have a huge hitbox. contrary to popular belief that extra 100 hp doesn't do a lot for heavies. - the rpg already has a very long cooldown and doesn't do enough damage to fully kill a single person. also, it's very hard to use indoors because the explosion can damage the user. it's best for killing annoying lights that are picking on your teammates. heavies are made for defense, they're not a support class like medium. just focusing on destruction with heavies is going to make the class unusable - charge n slam is often times the only thing i can do when i get close to people, nerfing the damage and increasing the cooldown makes it horrible and unusable as a now heavy main i think you're heavily dramatizing how much heavies have as an advantage to lights. i've been absolutely slaughtered by lights who know how to do their job, others just run up to me and expect me to just sit there while they spray me also bubble shield is super weak, just shoot like 4 bullets at it and it'll go down, same with aps, just shoot at it, plus aps just got nerfed so it can only stop four util until it breaks, there are also canisters outside you can use to break down the barricades, or get a heavy to break them. something people forget when playing this game is that there's a hard counter to every single gadget/weapon how often do you play the other classes? it feels like you're very one-sided, like you haven't played heavy or medium that much i played light for almost the entirety of season 1, and mostly heavy for season 2, with some light and some medium. embark are ex-dice/ea employees and know what they're doing with the game, especially when it comes to balancing.
I agree with most of the stuff said here. How many hours do you have currently, some of the things you said here I never even knew even though I have 145 hours in finals. Guess there is still more to learn haha!
@@mobert777you keep your diamond rewards even if you derank. also i like your assessment here. piggy is particularly whiny here acting as if the whole game is built and balanced in direct opposition to him specifically like you said, just about everything has a direct counter. every time i see a red barrel i grab it because it counters so many options, it also doubles as a stronger rpg if you know how to aim. where are his complaints about that? i don't think light is broken or anything, but how am i gonna counter one dashing 3 times around me while melting me lol
this idea is very out there, but i think it would be cool if respawns were like apex drops where you jump from the sky and land wherever you want. it would keep the action going too, and wouldnt take long due to the maps not being as big
I kinda agree, it’s already a very complex game mode. I understand the mode but look at what else is out there and compare it to this, then tell me it’s not complicated. Maybe the should have the training mode be focused on cashout
I still think the dev could just simply have a loading screen tips teaching player the important of finishing fight fast and track team’s location using scoreboard.
Oh my god tell me about it.
@@Thehackerguy2000 Let’s say you’re defending A and you know that there’s only 1 team in-front of you, push hard. Use your gadget early and Push fast with your team. You might think I’m telling you to be reckless but it’s really strategic. Think about it, if you wipe this first enemy team fast, third party won’t get the advantage over yours cause you have more time to prepared for them. But if you lose to the first team fast, no big deal, now you just become the third party that’s still ducking it out at B.
Now how do you know if it’s safe to fight this team considering that third party might just appear out of nowhere?
Scoreboard.
The scoreboard show real time death of any player and their increased combat score. Let’s say pink combat score increase and they’re the one defending B. That’s mean they must be fighting with other team at B.
So if you see purple start pushing you, it just mean pink was fighting with red. And here you go. Now you have a solid 40 seconds to fight purple knowing no one will come third you.
Similarly let’s say Pink was defending B but one of red team member is dead and you hear no gun shot near you.
You can also work it out that purple is the only team That might be pushing you.
Now, here’s the harder part.
Sometime, it be that when you’re defending. There’s two team that get wipe at the same team (as will be shown to you at the top left corner of your screen)
This is where your team location is crucial.
No matter what happen, always always make sure you never get sandwich between two team
Even if you have to leave the cash out undefended
Seriously, unless the cashout is almost finish.
Just leave the location, better to lose the cashout than your own life. Cause as long as you’re living, you can retake it back
And when you’re the one attacking a site and you know that a third party might come from behind you. (You will know this if you track the top left respawn timer)
Hide if you can. Better to let the third party foolishly fought the defender for you before you comeback to take it last second
But if you can’t hide from the third party.
Or
it a steal or lose situation
No matter what
Don’t get Sandwich by the third party and instead try to make the the defending team the one that get pinched between your team and the third party team cause
Prioritizes killing the defending team should be the priority since they are the one that will throw their life preventing the steal
They should do that but also add a tutorial with video explanations. Like an overhead view of the map with marking of spawns, vaults, and cashouts with arrows showing map flow and rotations for macro play. Giving different examples of how the game flow changes based off of team wipes and such.
Wish that would work, literally seen many teams wait for the 3rd party
@@Alkalineman Yeah, it won’t work every-time. But that’s sort of what it meant to be a battle Royal. Though I guess it would be nice if the team that started the vault get some more benefit than the measly 2k they have now.
What about an exponential curve for cash out cash gain? Instead of it being a linear gain every 25% it could be where 25% would be 1.25k, 50% would be 2.5k, 75% would be 5k, then 100% or the completion of the cashout would be 10k total. The ramp up of money would make holding the cashout for its entire duration more rewarding and also give a chance for other teams to steal and have it be still rewarding and avoiding the game feeling snowbally all while the game would still be less rewarding for 3rd parties. This would also still encourage people to maintain tempo as the other teams that start late have far more money to give up, but not much more than the other cashout that started sooner.
I really like the idea of making team wipes worth more as it would make those moments where there aren’t any vaults up yet but no time for steals feel better, as there would still be insensitive to go push a cashout just for the sake of wiping the team.
Actually not a bad suggestion, we would need to test it in a actual game to see how it would feel in a "lower" skilled lobby and a "higher" skilled lobby
Congrats on 10K!
TYSM!
I agree with everything you said in the video. Hopefully they add all of these changes.
No matter how you slice it, holding the Cashout through multiple fights from 0 till 90% only to have a heavy drop double barricade dome and steal it last second is a genuinely tilting experience. It rewards and incentivizes being a rat and playing like an absolute cunt, while the team that held for almost 2 mins gets fuck all to show for their effort.
Im really hoping the Would Tour tourneys test out a ruleset change like the one discussed in the video instead of just being whacky loadouts or whatever
Great take on keeping destruction in the heavy's kit while discussing nerfs, especially regarding the RPG.
And taser should absolutely cancel abilities.
A thought I've had to give the light class a level of healing utility more in line with heavy and medium would be giving lights a slightly faster totem revive speed to encourage sort of a "dash through the fight to make a rescue" role. curious about your thoughts on that.
Another thing I’ve been suggesting for light is a sort of stim gadget that insta heals 75 hp or could immediately start regen
@@FreelanceMexican Theres 100% gonna come a stim for the light haha, its bound to happen.
Congrats to 10k🎉🎉
Congrats on 10k subs Piggy! Well deserved!
I like this video piggy, very nice ideas and thoughts.
Love these ideas! I think also with a partial deposit feature it could be fun for vaults to then be significantly larger & only one of them at a time when not deposited, but ofc 2 different deposit spots to choose between. Once deposited, despawn other deposit spot, then another vault can spawn while it's progressing to maybe double up the cashout & incentivize splitting the team. High risk high reward. Then ofcourse spawn 2 new deposit spots once cashout completes.
There should be a sudden death feature when time runs out.
If youre grabbing a cash when time runs out you enter sudden death. Game ends when the cash box is flipped.
If you die in sudden death there is a 3 second re-grab timer.
That would be amazing for the ending moments of a match.
I would pay to see you and JFJ argue over which class is overpowered
It’s heavy and there’s no debate lol
@@SassyTakes lol
I think that the carrying the cashbox and getting money idea is good, however, the numbers can end up getting so precise to the point where 200 decides whether you qualify or not. Having someone just pick up a cashbox and not really having to do much which would intern put them out of the knockout zone would be so irritating because there’s not much you can do about that, if they are across the map
Man spits facts.🔥
good changes but i would rather you get 10% of the total cashout value per 25%, and the team holding it gets the rest.
Changing it to 10% is not good imo
Just because you lose that "pressure" aspect of the cashout gamemode. You also gotta think about the later cashout that have 15k and 22k.
And if its at 10% people have a harder time doing a comeback in the game. You still need a comeback mechanic.
@@piggyxdd fair enough, i just feel like a big aspect of cashout is the massive money deposit at the end of the timer. keeping it at 10% both rewards the team for holding and gives the chance of a big play for a team on the other end to get the final deposit of the remaining cash and qual.
I agree with everything in your video, to add onto your point with gaining money based on how long you have the cashout: i think - if this change does happen - they will need to make it faster to steal because if its towards the end, you will sit there for 5 sec stealing just to gain like 500 cash, where as if it took 2-3 sec to steal it will make everything much more fast paced and will incentivise the players to stay close to the cashout rather than all fighting at different layers of a building while also making sure people dont just give up towards the end of the cashout.
This all makes sense, RPG should be about destroying and separating the enemy team (causing chaos to be able to do a correct engage), not about destroying enemies with damage. If not, simply being able to use 1 Heavy per team would solve the case (and the team would have to always be aware of the enemy rpg)
Keep up the great work we need more people like you in the community
tysm for the 2 dollars
Great ideas. I hope they listen.
Good idea
I have a pretty good idea for cashout, so yknow the whole issue with being third partied at the last second of the cashout, so all the maps for the finals have a cashout in a designated area or building, embark should put like a invisible or visible barrier around these areas where the cashouts are when the cashout time reaches halfway, and whichever team is within the barrier after the halfway point can respawn in the area and whichever team member is not in the barrier won’t be able to spawn inside or get inside the area in order to third party
So this technically would raise the stakes for cashouts, so let’s say your team needs to steal a cashout to win but you gotta choose the cashout where the timer dident reach halfway yet in order to get into the barrier and steal it, and this also can make strategic plays where one person in one team stays in the area of another cashout just in case the halfway point comes in, this is just a idea but I feel like embark can really flesh out this idea better in a way that makes sense for cashout
The GOAT
dont think gaining cash while holidng point works if they double stack the cashes because everyone will be fighting while the team that has cashout is just benefitting and by the time everyone wipes stealing wont be rewarding
hey piggy where do you get the bird eye view templates of the maps?
google haha
10/10 video
If you held for 25% or whichever duration, would you get the money right away or after cashout?
The argument about nerfing charge n slam and rpg damage is also what I've been saying in all the discussions about it. I would even go as far as removing RPG damage entirely and give it a 2nd charge (however that would look cosmetically) to make it more of a strategic tool. The description of the class in game literally says "specializes in demolition and fortifications". Imo light class is already in a good state with most weapons having a very high damage output. The only problem is - as you said - "oh there is a he-" **dead** Only the top players are able to survive against a heavy. When lights with a bit less skill could also actually survive for once and use their abilites, that would already be enough.
I see the meta as "Fragger, Fragger, Support". when heavy is less of a fragger we would already see them being replaced by lights or fragger mediums. One heavy would still be prefered for **the fortifications** (crazy, right?)
you can really feel piggy's frustration LMAOO he curses a lot than usual. KEKW
YUP!
I think a pre-game planning map would be great. Like a Battle Royal where you choose where to drop. Text chat will help for solo q but I think we need a bit more. I was thinking like an rts or mmo map where you can draw on it, making arrows or circling an area of interest.
I might be dumb but yesterday when I was playing bank it it felt fun, I feel like they could've tried doing something with it instead. IMO it's overlooked by a lot of players, especially casuals.
w suggestions
2:41 when you get the wipe the very last enemy should explode/dissolve in much more coins (maybe it already is like that but I never noticed, should be obvious tho!). Would be a nice little addition and better feedback than the delayed wipe buzzer sound lol
I agree with your cashout change but would like to propose one revision. I don't think it should completely remove third partying but only reduce it's impact. One way would be making 50% of the cashout rewarded for holding and 50% for winning the cashout at the end. For instance, Team A holds the cashout 80% of the time and Team B holds for 20% and wins the cashout at the end. Team A would get $4,000 and Team B gets $1,000 for holding. The other $5,000 is given to Team B for winning the cashout. This way, it's still important to win the cashout while also making holding important as well.
That was a concern I had. At a certain point you have the win so it’s no longer necessary to defend. Then that team has the power to grief 2nd place. Maybe half the power between holding objective and stealing
I’ve been saying impact glitches should’ve been a thing from beta
If you're going to have three roles that aren't properly balanced, you need role lock.
No
Yeah, locked loadouts are not the way to go, but locked roles likely are at this point
@@arcanum3882 that will 100% kill the game
I'm hoping they experiment with all this stuff during the "World Tour" mode they've announced. I think the $2k for each 25% plus $2k bonus for holding to 100% will work even better than people are imagining. Especially if they take your other suggestions. It's actually kind of bizarre how it feels like they haven't bothered to calibrate the rewards to the gameplay all that well. Basic stuff like teams spawning equidistant to vaults, providing more ways to win by modestly increasing reward for kills so that if you can't get a steal in time to earn sufficient funds to win (e.g., by stealing by the 50% mark - note how now there is even more continuous urgency to be stealing cashouts), you can compensate with kills and team wipes. Anyway, I'm just agreeing with you and repeating what you said, but if Embark were to put these changes in as the rules for the 2nd and 3rd weeks of World Tour, I think it's more likely than not that it would work. I'm less convinced of the need to nerf heavies because a team can run their own heavy, but totally agree that it's cooler when there is at least one viable LMH meta. I think you just have to buff the light class in some ways that casuals won't get steamrolled by. I wonder, e.g., if Thermal Bore is going to be a good gadget for solving some of the problems you highlight, especially helping light use more range (although I think that's probably too optimistic). Anyway, I caught some of your gameplay toward the beginning of Season 2, when a decent number of teams were starting to run LMH, and it was refreshing.
glitches should counter APS, it makes no sense that the APS shoots down the glitch imo. but then revert the APS nerf again.
and i'd agree with your ideas
i wish they could just add a TDM Mode. Sometimes playing for objective is kind of unrewarding due to all the players playing like rats and terrorizing the game especially with people not even using guns anymore. You may as well add kill based game modes
Congratulations on 10000 subscrivers!
I agree with alot of ur takes,
1 thing i dont agree with is balancing the game around the top players. U can’t get around the fact that most players are casuals.
Maybe simple number changes could be different in quickplay than in ranked tournaments. Taser was really oppressive in casual, in ranked with good players it was a balanced gadget. Maybe ranked tournaments could get the pre nerf taser and the casuals can get current taser. If u catch my drift.
Theres alot of disconnect between top tier balance and casual balance. So yeh thats why im saying this
The RPG should have an arming range 15-25 meters so that you have to use it at farther ranges. Make it team kill so can't just spam into a group fight. Allow players to shoot it out of the air and make it have a slower travel time which increases its difficulty to snipe.
my main issue with the game is the light class, unfun to play against, when playing against light players it literally ruins the game for me. the actual weapons im fine with, my main issue is the sniper and whatever random weapon they decide to randomly buff to oblivion for whatever reason (currently throwing knives). They cant balance light and they really need to figure it out. also invis has no place in any fps game full stop.
Yea, i play this game kinda casually and i pretty much came up with the same change idea of cash out
Extra gradual reward for holding cash out longer
More neutral spawn points
More cash on kills (so it rewarda team successfully fight and contest more)
Also, with more source of cash, gap of cash difference each vault can be decreased ao early vaults actually matter but there are chance for come back late game due to other cash source
These changes not only deter 3rd party but also weaken "safe griefing" where a leading team can easily manipulate the match to have the worst team qualify with them. While it is a valid and unique strat for the finals, i feel like it is a bit anti-competitive and anti-hype, especially when it can be done with little risk and huge reward. Having other major cash flow make it harder to predict placements and control enemy's cash gain and griefing even have a chance to backfire as the griefing team might be knocked to 3rd place instead if they misplay
Another things to address in the future is map design and cash box location because there are many broken cash out spawn right now.
Great ideas here! But I would rather buff other classes instead of nerfing heavy because if heavy is nerfed more, no one will play him in casual
i agree but nerfing RPG is a good step in the direction of making HHm less oppressive
Make the rankeds 1 of each class c:
So many W takes but unfortunately devs won't listen 😔
It wont fix it - it will just make it casual AF!! damn
nope it wont. it will make it less punishing getting third-partied this is also a common issue in higher ranks even in scrims this is a massive issue
@@piggyxdd you didn't get my point... like the Finals is about to GET TO THE FINALS like last second, last moment, like only the best team can make it... The issue with third party should be solved some how another way.. but over all - this would make like - just Hold the flag or idk - it would be just one of the hundreds of the games... I hope they would find another way to make it good. Peace.
SOMEONE HAD TO SAY IT. I think faster health regen for lights would be great too.
Nah dog mediums just need to realize that heavies aren’t the only ones who benefits from a heal beam. Learn to play with your team.
@@Thehackerguy2000 sometimes you need to play a flank or an off angle away from your team to get a pick. You may take damage and that can leave you out of a fight for a while
Yes that would help a lot and I think the light should be able to jump as high as a heavy so that you can actually run away from them. You have to do all this movement tech just to climb a wall that a heavy can vault right up no problem. So you waste time climbing while they catch up to you.
What if tapping a vault would give you a coin, idk just an idea. Also, I am not sure how i feel about having kills be more rewarding because i like how the game is very objective based but i think an interesting way to do it would a portion of the money (20% ?) that gets taken away (-33%) goes to the team who wipes them. Though this could cause some problems where teams just suicide lol. l Also i think to balance RPG, you have destruction be the same or more for each charge as the original. I find it really sad when there like "Don't use RPG to break wall we need to save" like bruh.
For glitches i think its pretty straightforward. Set time to 7s and make the effect STACKING, that way if you hit both glitches then they are glitched for over 10 seconds. I think contact would be a good change as long as when there are players in the air and the glitch actually like directly makes contact with them it glitches, not just on building.
thats what i mean with glitches as soon as it hits a playermodel it should detonate like the barrel adding a extra level of skill to the class
It should be split into 3rds 33/66/100
Tell them nerf heavy and buff light
Literally make it role queue and force LMH for balance and diversity. Having two of any decent ability feels incredibly oppressive. Double heal beam and double defib isn’t as tilting as double RPG but it’s still absurdly good and very boring-even in diamond
I love the flexibility this game offers and taking that away removes that variety element from its identity
@@TahsinMiah-vc3fs I think it would increase diversity dramatically because it would mean all classes are played equally. I don’t think it’s possible to balance classes so that LMH emerges naturally and then maintain that for any length of time. One class will always be better than the others (and it will probably always be heavy), so they should just go the overwatch route so the gameplay is more dynamic.
Yeah I know it would force diversity, and honestly is probably the most feasible option. If role queue you need a light on each team so every team is balanced but I want the option of running LLL even if I don’t win or it isn’t viable. But I agree it’s just too difficult to have that flexibility and balance
Actually I walk that back, it would severely limit diversity. It would force a specific team comp, and meta would form around that team comp. We’d likely see the exact same loadout from all teams. Now thinking about it, I think this would drastically decrease the fun of the game by making the meta stale
@@TahsinMiah-vc3fs I really disagree. Maybe it is better in lower Elo, but the meta last season was absurdly stale. If everyone plays a different class then there is a lot of counter picking that can ensue. Maybe you run thermal vision for an invis light or start even using a motion sensor. Maybe with all the glitch grenades you run APS or perhaps the heavy stops running dome shield. Maybe dash light makes the heavy switch off charge and slam. There is a lot of strategy and counter play that emerges when the entire game isn’t movement support medium and 2 heavies with rpgs.
clearly the devs want heavies to reign supreme because they can't play there own game without them. It's clear they just want a fkn handout when they suck. Been saying the heavy nerf should have happened since beta, but all the bot kiddies cried for it, and look how that made the game turn out, near dead. Oof next time listen to me embark, too bad may not be a fkn next time games near gone unfortunately rip to not using a fkn ounce of common sense and real education from a top skilled player.
Giving heavy two rpgs rounds that do half the damage of the current one could be a decent nerf.
not really because the issue there again is gonna be that you have 2x heavies with 4 rpg rounds and they can keep dropping the cashout multiple times making it almost impossible to steal if its in a building with multiple floors
They killed the game it was unique
I love the suggestions, but what's the point if this isn't ranked anymore?
Another thing is that they should get rid of gadget and spec swap altogether, even if the mode goes back into rank. You should just be able to switch spec and gadget freely when respawninflg. The limit hurts the meta development and also discourage casual from trying out the game mode
>get money when holding the cashout
this would make going to attack a cashout completely boring. what's the incentive to attack when all your potential money is being drained right before your eyes? think about it from an attacker's perspective. getting the vault in the cashout first would be more powerful than it already is. yes, 3rd-parties are annoying, but i don't think they're annoying enough or common enough or deadly enough to warrant changing the entire game. also, have you ever gotten a cashout at the last moment, and been qualified for the next round because of it? if everyone has an advantage, no one has that advantage.
>incentive to tap vaults
the people who spawn further away are the attackers of the vault, the people who spawn closer are the defenders. either way they both get to the vault, usually while it's still being tapped so i don't really know how it's not fair
>kills and wipes should be more rewarding
you think there should be less of a focus on objective? maybe i can get on board with giving more money for kills, but wipes already get remove 30% of a teams total cash, so i don't think it needs to be changed
>light
agree with almost all the changes--
- tazer nerf doesn't need to be reverted, it's still really good
- cloak nerfs definitely need to be reverted, but do NOT need to be more visible. as an ex-light main who used to use cloak, people could already see (and hear) me very well and pick me off easily
>heavy
heavies need high damage because they're slow asf and have a huge hitbox. contrary to popular belief that extra 100 hp doesn't do a lot for heavies.
- the rpg already has a very long cooldown and doesn't do enough damage to fully kill a single person. also, it's very hard to use indoors because the explosion can damage the user. it's best for killing annoying lights that are picking on your teammates. heavies are made for defense, they're not a support class like medium. just focusing on destruction with heavies is going to make the class unusable
- charge n slam is often times the only thing i can do when i get close to people, nerfing the damage and increasing the cooldown makes it horrible and unusable
as a now heavy main i think you're heavily dramatizing how much heavies have as an advantage to lights. i've been absolutely slaughtered by lights who know how to do their job, others just run up to me and expect me to just sit there while they spray me
also bubble shield is super weak, just shoot like 4 bullets at it and it'll go down, same with aps, just shoot at it, plus aps just got nerfed so it can only stop four util until it breaks, there are also canisters outside you can use to break down the barricades, or get a heavy to break them. something people forget when playing this game is that there's a hard counter to every single gadget/weapon
how often do you play the other classes? it feels like you're very one-sided, like you haven't played heavy or medium that much
i played light for almost the entirety of season 1, and mostly heavy for season 2, with some light and some medium. embark are ex-dice/ea employees and know what they're doing with the game, especially when it comes to balancing.
I agree with most of the stuff said here. How many hours do you have currently, some of the things you said here I never even knew even though I have 145 hours in finals. Guess there is still more to learn haha!
@@dimov670 a little over 300 hours
@@mobert777 Gotcha! What rank did you manage to achieve at best? I'm currently stuck at plat 3 since I have randoms that don't fill lmao.
@@dimov670 got to diamond 4 recently and stopped playing ranked bc I didnt want to derank lol
@@mobert777you keep your diamond rewards even if you derank. also i like your assessment here. piggy is particularly whiny here acting as if the whole game is built and balanced in direct opposition to him specifically
like you said, just about everything has a direct counter. every time i see a red barrel i grab it because it counters so many options, it also doubles as a stronger rpg if you know how to aim. where are his complaints about that?
i don't think light is broken or anything, but how am i gonna counter one dashing 3 times around me while melting me lol
Charge n Slam is deleted, I'm pretty sure.
I dont think so. Saw a dev on discord say that he was a charge main and there is a lot of chargable places in the new map smh
@@reeseastaire3498The cons of having a dev team that actually plays their game, just not competitively
I'd guess that if any of the three are getting replaced it would be goo gun because of how frustrating it can be to play against.
this idea is very out there, but i think it would be cool if respawns were like apex drops where you jump from the sky and land wherever you want. it would keep the action going too, and wouldnt take long due to the maps not being as big
that would just create more third parties. and that is something i want to remove
You are overcomplicating it for new players..
Not really. It seems complicated at first but it good for the gamemode since it prevents thirdpartying
I kinda agree, it’s already a very complex game mode. I understand the mode but look at what else is out there and compare it to this, then tell me it’s not complicated. Maybe the should have the training mode be focused on cashout
Give light defib and RPG, game fixed.