I don't know how the cost report rules have evolved with the years but I know that when I was doing the competition the gain from small carbon fiber winglets like this would be to expensive to produce for the grip gain that they produce. The competition is at slow speed so an underbody tunnel with a large rear wing and a large front wing is enough.
Good point! It's been a while since i looked at that stuff so i can't comment on how the judges evaluate those kind of things but you may well be right.
@@comptegoogle511 Yeah, right.. I guess you have to weigh up the hit you take in the design report vs. the performance gained and engineering experience you'd get from doing the aero work in that respect.
@@WaveyDynamics If you can come up with the simplest solution that can get the job done efficiently then you show that you've already have a lot of engineering experience. LEAN manufacturing is the Hiroshima of the automotive industry in North America because they didn't adapt.
Yeah FS does get like that which is a shame. It's things like the sponsorship and free parts etc that are really hard to control. Either way i feel like you probably learn a little more being in the less funded teams!
The car will be at 80 Km/h only at the end of the straight line. Most of the race is at 30-50 km/h and lift (downforce) is proportional to the scare factor of the speed. Those wings must penalize the team a lot for the cost report.
Given the very limited performances of the SAE cars and the kind of gymkhana tracks they're racing on, I see no need for so much aero complicated stuff and that ridiculously high rear wing.
You'd think so, but generally the top 20 placed teams all have cars with significant aero, so there's certainly a correlation there whether it's design points or absolute performance.
the typical sensitivities of a FSAE car are as follows: 1. tire mu 2. overall mass 3. coefficient of lift 4. cog-height 5. coefficient of drag 6. motor power as a rule of thumb you can say that each of those parameters is only half as sensitive to the laptime as the one above: so you could change the cog-height by 10% but also increase C_l by 5% and the car will not be slower. p.s.: keep in mind that procentual changes depend on the baseline and theres quite a big variability regarding weight (between 160 and 220 kg) or C_l (none up to 8!). the above stated sensitivities are for a 180kg car with C_l of about 6.
I race for a decent FSAE team in the US and during our testing I found that our car without wings was faster than with wings. The wings add weight and max speed we hit in our car was 70 mph but it’s rare we hit that
![Aerodynamic Considerations YOUR Build Deserves | Formula SAE [#TECHTALK]](/img/n.gif)
yo I didn't know daniel ricciardo was moonlighting as an aerodynamicist (great vid btw)
Hahaha! Thanks, glad you enjoyed it.
Lol you’re right. He a black Riccardo. Haha.
These guys on some real racing shit. Downforce like crazy, open to huge innovation... what’s not to love. Thanks my guy. Subbed now too.
Nice!
What a fantastic video, mate. Thanks for going so in depth.
Thanks! I'd love to do another one like this in front of an LMP car or something similar! I'll try and make that happen soon!
Great Video!
I don't know how the cost report rules have evolved with the years but I know that when I was doing the competition the gain from small carbon fiber winglets like this would be to expensive to produce for the grip gain that they produce. The competition is at slow speed so an underbody tunnel with a large rear wing and a large front wing is enough.
Good point! It's been a while since i looked at that stuff so i can't comment on how the judges evaluate those kind of things but you may well be right.
@@WaveyDynamics When I was doing the competition all the carbon fiber grams on the car had to be debated for the 100$/ per pound in the cost report.
@@comptegoogle511 Yeah, right.. I guess you have to weigh up the hit you take in the design report vs. the performance gained and engineering experience you'd get from doing the aero work in that respect.
@@WaveyDynamics If you can come up with the simplest solution that can get the job done efficiently then you show that you've already have a lot of engineering experience. LEAN manufacturing is the Hiroshima of the automotive industry in North America because they didn't adapt.
love to see the crazy aero and open rules but it kinda turns it into play to win, would be better imo with a cost cap (great video btw too)
Yeah FS does get like that which is a shame. It's things like the sponsorship and free parts etc that are really hard to control. Either way i feel like you probably learn a little more being in the less funded teams!
@@WaveyDynamics for sure, the less funded teams usually find the most interesting advantages
cost plays a role in the score, the more money spent, the less the score
Great video👍🏻
Appreciate it Fernando. Must be more regular with my content!
are you allowed to drive if you are a student with racing experience or does it have to be a beginner cause i think i read that somewhere?
Bro looks like Daniel Ricciardo
The car will be at 80 Km/h only at the end of the straight line. Most of the race is at 30-50 km/h and lift (downforce) is proportional to the scare factor of the speed. Those wings must penalize the team a lot for the cost report.
you look like Daniel Riccardo somehow
You guys have been watching too much F1 lol
Given the very limited performances of the SAE cars and the kind of gymkhana tracks they're racing on, I see no need for so much aero complicated stuff and that ridiculously high rear wing.
You'd think so, but generally the top 20 placed teams all have cars with significant aero, so there's certainly a correlation there whether it's design points or absolute performance.
the typical sensitivities of a FSAE car are as follows:
1. tire mu
2. overall mass
3. coefficient of lift
4. cog-height
5. coefficient of drag
6. motor power
as a rule of thumb you can say that each of those parameters is only half as sensitive to the laptime as the one above: so you could change the cog-height by 10% but also increase C_l by 5% and the car will not be slower.
p.s.: keep in mind that procentual changes depend on the baseline and theres quite a big variability regarding weight (between 160 and 220 kg) or C_l (none up to 8!). the above stated sensitivities are for a 180kg car with C_l of about 6.
I race for a decent FSAE team in the US and during our testing I found that our car without wings was faster than with wings. The wings add weight and max speed we hit in our car was 70 mph but it’s rare we hit that