The problem with Chalcedon it is makes it sound like Jesus did miracles by his own attributes of deity. But Scripture does not bear this out. The book of John illustrates many times that Jesus did miracles by the Father dwelling in him in the power of the Holy Spirit. This is why Jesus did no miracles in his childhood, or early adult life. It was after the Holy Spirit came upon him that the miracles started. Hope that helps.
The Scribes and the Teachers thought it was a miracle when Christ taught in the synagogue at age 12. He also said that He had to be about His Fathers work.
@@Mike65809 So you are saying that every miracle that Christ preformed is written in the bible. Or did John tell us that their was so much more Christ said and did that is was to much to write down.
@@rbrack54 every miracle Jesus did may not be written in the Bible, but it makes it clear that there were none prior to His Ministry. His first miracle was changing water to wine...
A simple question for Sanders, "Did the Second Divine Person of the Holy Trinity assumed post-lapsarian human nature?" If He assumed pre-lapsarian humanity then He saved no one. Both Athanasius and Cappadocian Fathers addressed this. I'm looking froward for others at Biola or Sanders to update this discussion in a better way. Good video.
sakor88 I'm a Byzantine Catholic, Orthodox in Communion with Rome. In both Catholic and Orthodox original sin is not the same with original guilt. The later is Protestantism. When Orthodox deny original sin, it's original guilt that being denied. Original sin is dogmatized at Ephesus in 431. Both the Logos and Theotokos were born with mortality and corruptibility. Christ can't sinned because He is a divine person (His person is not very God and very man, Nestorianism) so He doesn't have concupiscence or gnomic will. His mother is full of grace being redeemed at her conception and aided by grace to live a sinless life throughout her entire life. That's why both died, resurrected, and now rule in heaven bodily. Unless One of the Holy Trinity assumed humanity in the likeness of sinful flesh there is no Gospel. Protestant's anthropology is Pelagian. If He assumed a pre-lapsarian human nature then we're not saved. Because what is not assumed is not healed. I was a former Calvinist and I respect my separated brethren.
sakor88 I would recommend Fr. Thomas Weinandy, "In the likeness of sinful flesh." While I was considering to become an Eastern Orthodox this book helped me to debunk a myth that Augustinian Anthropology is Pelagian (Christ's humanity is prelapsarian). Which then lead me into Eastern Catholicism. This is a very crucial link between Christology and Soteriology which is lacked in Sanders' lecture. Without Christ and Theotokos being consubstantial with us in our postlapsarian nature, there is no Gospel. Remember that which is not assumed is not healed. Immaculate Conception doesn't excluded Theotokos from receiving our fallen humanity. She was protected from the stain of original sin not from ancestral sin which is transmitted to all mankind including her and the Logos incarnate. www.firstthings.com/blogs/leithart/2013/12/sinful-flesh
adithia - I believe Christ carried our fallen condition to the cross and destroyed it, but i don't believe it was His fallen condition if that makes sense. And Mary was born with a fallen condition like every other sinner, no exception
Adithia Kusno The assumption of Mary is a terrible heresy that developed from human manipulation of theology to allow a single bishop to attain and maintain ascendancy. This is a terrible abomination of Scripture, and a purely human creation from the fallen mind of man. Jesus condemned the traditions of men when they replace the word of God.
What's with the splitting of hairs with human nature? When Adam and Eve sinned, they died (i.e. were separated from God). Today we see the extent of depravity human nature is able to manifest of itself. We face temptation ourselves each day. Whether to fulfill our lusts or walk in the Spirit, and more often we fall short... Jesus Christ never sinned, He lived a perfect life. He didn't exercise any advantage when suffering temptation. He alone is qualified as the Sinless Sacrifice.
Jesus did not have two natures as usually understood. Jesus was the Logos made flesh, the Logos Spirit transformed into human spirit but kept his identity the whole time. So he didn't know the day or hour of his return because he chose to limit himself by becoming a man. If he did know the day or hour of his return in his human nature, then why not just go into his divine nature and find out?? The problem is Chalcedon gave us a basically Nestorian Jesus, but said they didn't by simply stating there was no separation.
I noticed that you left this comment on several hypostatic union video wherein you promote an unbiblical kenosis theory, declaring that Christ had to rely on the Holy Sprit in order to perform miracles. The problem with that interpretation, however, is that Scripture explicitly presents these miracles as manifesting the unique glory of the Son, and as the ground upon which one ought to believe that He is the divine Messiah. The apostle John speaks of beholding in Jesus “glory as of the only begotten from the Father” (John 1:14), the unique glory of the one and only Son to be begotten of the Father from eternity.
@@CaldwellApologetics Jesus did have glory, but he could not glorify himself. If he did, his glory was nothing; It was the Father who glorified him, right? Now God can certainly glorify himself, right? And God does not need anything else to glorify him, right? Okay then let me ask you, what did the Logos empty himself of when he became a man?
@@Mike65809 Philippians 2 says He divested Himself of His Rights and Privileges He enjoyed as the Second Person of the Godhead. He did not exercise His Rights except to glorify the Father. His Ministry of Redemption was established in the Council before Creation. The only Ones around were the Members of the Godhead.
One person and two natures? Yes, the Christian Soteriology model is based on this, but until one explains how actually "unity of the human and divine persons" is possible (2 wills? 2 self-consciousness(es) ?) in practice, we play tennis without a net. Any takers? The trick of treating natures as substances, and at the same persons as separate categories simply does not work, how we can talk about unity if natures in one divine person, while ignoring self-consciousness generated by both agencies per nature? This is just a language game played by the owners of the related cashflow (religion, etc.). Nothing more. Again, explain this cogently or stop messing with other people's critically thinking brains. Kind regards.
If Jesus was fully God and fully man, then how was he tempted? 🤔 You can NOT tempt God as temptation emanates from SIN, but sin and God can NOT coexist, thus the Fall from Heaven. Theological logic.✅
@@andrewmeneely9774 - says you. The Hypostatic Union theory is flawed theology as Jesus himself declared he was not deified and would not reach full glory until his ascension. That’s mostly rooted in Catholicism, not Biblical Christianity. Not going to debate you here. Gotta love your legalistic tone and words.✌🏼
@@TednGilbertAZ HE WAS TEMPTED SAME AS WE ARE ! THATS WHY HE TOOK ON HUMANITY AS PART OF HIS NATURE ! AGAIN DO YOUR HOMEWORK BEFORE YOU IGNORANTLY SPOUT OFF !
@@yotototab4922 - yes, naturally. Again, that is where temptation originates - from nature, not from the Divine. Thus, the incoherent ‘logic’ of the Hypostatic Union is completely exposed.
Confusion. Check out Mike Desario holding firmly. I promise you will hear the truth from a true preacher,you'll find out how to be saved,and know it without a doubt.
Man has 2 natures, flesh and spirit. Jesus was man and God. Logically, Jesus has 3 natures, the flesh and spirit of humanity, and then divinity. Or, is the divine, the Word, Jesus' humanity spirit?
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 72 วันนี้!! คู่เอก "ก้องศึก vs โจอาคิม"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/hT1EOSsRPac/mqdefault.jpg)
Good !
❤
The problem with Chalcedon it is makes it sound like Jesus did miracles by his own attributes of deity. But Scripture does not bear this out. The book of John illustrates many times that Jesus did miracles by the Father dwelling in him in the power of the Holy Spirit. This is why Jesus did no miracles in his childhood, or early adult life. It was after the Holy Spirit came upon him that the miracles started. Hope that helps.
The Scribes and the Teachers thought it was a miracle when Christ taught in the synagogue at age 12. He also said that He had to be about His Fathers work.
@@rbrack54 He grew in wisdom and stature, and favor with God and man. But he did no miracles until he was baptized by the Holy Spirit.
@@Mike65809 So you are saying that every miracle that Christ preformed is written in the bible. Or did John tell us that their was so much more Christ said and did that is was to much to write down.
@@rbrack54 Not sure why you concluded that from what I wrote.
@@rbrack54 every miracle Jesus did may not be written in the Bible, but it makes it clear that there were none prior to His Ministry. His first miracle was changing water to wine...
A simple question for Sanders, "Did the Second Divine Person of the Holy Trinity assumed post-lapsarian human nature?" If He assumed pre-lapsarian humanity then He saved no one. Both Athanasius and Cappadocian Fathers addressed this. I'm looking froward for others at Biola or Sanders to update this discussion in a better way. Good video.
sakor88 I'm a Byzantine Catholic, Orthodox in Communion with Rome. In both Catholic and Orthodox original sin is not the same with original guilt. The later is Protestantism. When Orthodox deny original sin, it's original guilt that being denied. Original sin is dogmatized at Ephesus in 431. Both the Logos and Theotokos were born with mortality and corruptibility. Christ can't sinned because He is a divine person (His person is not very God and very man, Nestorianism) so He doesn't have concupiscence or gnomic will. His mother is full of grace being redeemed at her conception and aided by grace to live a sinless life throughout her entire life. That's why both died, resurrected, and now rule in heaven bodily. Unless One of the Holy Trinity assumed humanity in the likeness of sinful flesh there is no Gospel. Protestant's anthropology is Pelagian. If He assumed a pre-lapsarian human nature then we're not saved. Because what is not assumed is not healed. I was a former Calvinist and I respect my separated brethren.
sakor88 I would recommend Fr. Thomas Weinandy, "In the likeness of sinful flesh." While I was considering to become an Eastern Orthodox this book helped me to debunk a myth that Augustinian Anthropology is Pelagian (Christ's humanity is prelapsarian). Which then lead me into Eastern Catholicism. This is a very crucial link between Christology and Soteriology which is lacked in Sanders' lecture. Without Christ and Theotokos being consubstantial with us in our postlapsarian nature, there is no Gospel. Remember that which is not assumed is not healed. Immaculate Conception doesn't excluded Theotokos from receiving our fallen humanity. She was protected from the stain of original sin not from ancestral sin which is transmitted to all mankind including her and the Logos incarnate. www.firstthings.com/blogs/leithart/2013/12/sinful-flesh
adithia - I believe Christ carried our fallen condition to the cross and destroyed it, but i don't believe it was His fallen condition if that makes sense. And Mary was born with a fallen condition like every other sinner, no exception
Adithia Kusno The assumption of Mary is a terrible heresy that developed from human manipulation of theology to allow a single bishop to attain and maintain ascendancy. This is a terrible abomination of Scripture, and a purely human creation from the fallen mind of man. Jesus condemned the traditions of men when they replace the word of God.
What's with the splitting of hairs with human nature? When Adam and Eve sinned, they died (i.e. were separated from God). Today we see the extent of depravity human nature is able to manifest of itself. We face temptation ourselves each day. Whether to fulfill our lusts or walk in the Spirit, and more often we fall short... Jesus Christ never sinned, He lived a perfect life. He didn't exercise any advantage when suffering temptation. He alone is qualified as the Sinless Sacrifice.
Jesus did not have two natures as usually understood. Jesus was the Logos made flesh, the Logos Spirit transformed into human spirit but kept his identity the whole time. So he didn't know the day or hour of his return because he chose to limit himself by becoming a man. If he did know the day or hour of his return in his human nature, then why not just go into his divine nature and find out?? The problem is Chalcedon gave us a basically Nestorian Jesus, but said they didn't by simply stating there was no separation.
I noticed that you left this comment on several hypostatic union video wherein you promote an unbiblical kenosis theory, declaring that Christ had to rely on the Holy Sprit in order to perform miracles. The problem with that interpretation, however, is that Scripture explicitly presents these miracles as manifesting the unique glory of the Son, and as the ground upon which one ought to believe that He is the divine Messiah. The apostle John speaks of beholding in Jesus “glory as of the only begotten from the Father” (John 1:14), the unique glory of the one and only Son to be begotten of the Father from eternity.
@@CaldwellApologetics Jesus did have glory, but he could not glorify himself. If he did, his glory was nothing; It was the Father who glorified him, right? Now God can certainly glorify himself, right? And God does not need anything else to glorify him, right? Okay then let me ask you, what did the Logos empty himself of when he became a man?
@@Mike65809 - what is the key 🔑 verse of the Bible?🤔
@@Mike65809 Philippians 2 says He divested Himself of His Rights and Privileges He enjoyed as the Second Person of the Godhead. He did not exercise His Rights except to glorify the Father. His Ministry of Redemption was established in the Council before Creation. The only Ones around were the Members of the Godhead.
@@nmbr1son64 Yes I agree. But it should be noted that his miracle were done by the Father working in him, and not by his own power. Amen?
What is person? I thought person is man. Jesus is perfect human and perfect God in one nature Jesus.
One person and two natures? Yes, the Christian Soteriology model is based on this, but until one explains how actually "unity of the human and divine persons" is possible (2 wills? 2 self-consciousness(es) ?) in practice, we play tennis without a net. Any takers? The trick of treating natures as substances, and at the same persons as separate categories simply does not work, how we can talk about unity if natures in one divine person, while ignoring self-consciousness generated by both agencies per nature? This is just a language game played by the owners of the related cashflow (religion, etc.). Nothing more. Again, explain this cogently or stop messing with other people's critically thinking brains. Kind regards.
If Jesus was fully God and fully man, then how was he tempted? 🤔 You can NOT tempt God as temptation emanates from SIN, but sin and God can NOT coexist, thus the Fall from Heaven. Theological logic.✅
Your statement is just Wrong . GO DO SOME EVEN CURSORY INVESTIGATION ON THIS BEFORE YOU IGNORANTLY TAG IT ... " THEOLOGICAL LOGIC " .
@@andrewmeneely9774 - says you. The Hypostatic Union theory is flawed theology as Jesus himself declared he was not deified and would not reach full glory until his ascension. That’s mostly rooted in Catholicism, not Biblical Christianity. Not going to debate you here. Gotta love your legalistic tone and words.✌🏼
@@TednGilbertAZ HE WAS TEMPTED SAME AS WE ARE ! THATS WHY HE TOOK ON HUMANITY AS PART OF HIS NATURE ! AGAIN DO YOUR HOMEWORK BEFORE YOU IGNORANTLY SPOUT OFF !
There are two analogies for the word " Tempted." The first one is tempted and be a victim . The other one is tempted and overcome temptation.
@@yotototab4922 - yes, naturally. Again, that is where temptation originates - from nature, not from the Divine. Thus, the incoherent ‘logic’ of the Hypostatic Union is completely exposed.
You make a mockery out of the sonship of The only begotten Son of God.
You're talking to one of the foremost trinitarian scholars in the world. I assure you he is making a mockery of nothing.
Confusion. Check out Mike Desario holding firmly. I promise you will hear the truth from a true preacher,you'll find out how to be saved,and know it without a doubt.
Man has 2 natures, flesh and spirit. Jesus was man and God. Logically, Jesus has 3 natures, the flesh and spirit of humanity, and then divinity. Or, is the divine, the Word, Jesus' humanity spirit?
If we believe Jesus's teaching the Father alone is God. Infact the Father is the God of Jesus. This man is a false.