Thanks for this, I accidentally stored my I Pace at 74% for 3 weeks. It's NMC, I tried to login and activate the heating to reduce SOC, but the car had gone to sleep 😮 I estimate in reality 74% is 68% ISH which according to the data given is fine. Was getting stressed, thanks for putting my mind at ease!
I think its important to stress not just that degradation depends on the potential between the cell plates but also the time spent at that potential. Itsn't going to cause a huge problem to charge to 100% just before you set off on a long journey and start discharging the battery - the thing to avoid is to leave the battery at a high state of charge for most of its life while parked up.
I saw Dr Euan Turk talk at the Fully Charged Show about batteries in Yorkshire a couple of months back. He's a very clever, informative and articulate person indeed. The upcoming progress in battery technology is looking fantastic! Great video Nicolas; keep them coming. 👍
@@NicolasRaimo I'm amazed his videos don't get more views - so great that you are featuring him on your channel - good to have some science mixed in with all the EV fun :)
Great video, thanks! However, could you provide a reference for the part where you say that cycling between 80% and 20% provides a greater energy throughput than smaller depths of discharge around an mSOC of 50%? Every paper I have read regarding NMC has shown that cycling 55% to 45% shows less degradation than 80% to 20%.
Hey buddy, love your videos about EVs and stuff, really appreciate the work and effort you’re putting in there! One question though: can u perhaps do a video about regen braking and how it affects or not affects battery longevity and degradation? I’m always wondering how this makes sense since a li-ion battery has only a limited number of charge cycles and if every regen braking contributed as a (very short) charging cycle, then the battery would be dad after a year or two. That’s obviously not the case, but why? Thx a lot man and all the best
Been charging mine to 100% for the last 4 years without any problems at all, so long as you use it within a couple of days and run the battery as low as you can before you recharge it then it will be fine.
Haha - yes indeed. However it doesn't seem to cause problems so long as you use the charge that is stored fairly soon after charging. 24kwh (2013 onwards) is maybe more resilient than the battery in the 2011/12 24kwh too? My car has 80k miles on the clock, 11/12 bars health and 80-mile range, but I only occasionally need to charge up to 100%. I need to make a point of doing so every few weeks just to re-balance the battery pack..
0:08 - I wish we could do that with our Zoe ZE50. It's a nuisance having to open the car door and then press a button on the dashboard. Especially if it's raining.
And what was the answer you heard and which battery chemistry or use case? 😆 I got Euan to record this as everyone avoids charging to 100 stating it’s bad to do so but having Euan him self stated he does it kinda kills most arguments
I have solar PV (lucky me ..still on high FIT tariff as early adopter) and I needed info re trickle charging to 100% ..a tempting proposition in summer . I now will not be doing this . Thanks again .
"NMC" sounds like a lot of trouble. I shall be very wary of my electric tooth brush from now on. And there have been a lot of lithium battery fires recently - not least one that caused the destruction of an entire cargo ship. I understand that batteries which use sodium chemistry are much less combustible than the lithium kind (and lithium batteries even come with their own oxygen supply built in). But I do not know why Sodium is safer. After all, a battery is a concentration of a lot of energy in a small space. That sounds like a good recipe for a bomb, to me - no matter what the chemistry. So can you explain why sodium batteries are "safer" than lithium batteries? I would be happy to sacrifice some vehicle "range", if I were confident that my battery was not going to go "bang".
Hi Paul LFP is VERY VERY stable and safe and newer blade cells don't even get hot or vent hot gases video on this soon click the bell not to miss the next video with Euan
I've just bought an Kia Soul EV. My plan is to charge to 75% most of the time. I'm planning to use the Octopus Intelligent tariff with a Ome Pro charger plugged in a lot of the time but controlled by Octopus. This may lead to short cyclinging between 50% and 75%, is this a problem?
I brought an Ev from Cinch and they had it for several months before it sold. By the SOC of the battery after only two years I suspect they charged it to 100% and then stored the car until it sold. It was delivered with a very low M/Kwh average but still a high battery state of charge. I have no proof but does Cinch understand how Evs work or indeed any ordinary garage?
I get the impression that there are only a minority of fossil dealerships that are fully trained in EV maintenance and storage.. hopefully that is already changing in advance of the 2030 census.
Excellent video and really good information. So, with an LFP home battery connected to solar panels, what should I charge the battery too at night time. I usually charge the battery from off peak based on my predicted amount of solar generation and the predicted home consumption. This often means charging the battery up to 60 to 80% and then it running down to 20 to 30%. But it's hard to predict and charging it to 100% is usually too high as the solar miss max out the battery during the morning and it starts to export which is a little bit of a waste. Any suggestions?
I check the weather forecast as well as what home assistant tells me and make a best guess on how much, if any to add during cheap off peak tariff. But regarding worrying about over charging, if you are like me and buy at 7.5p and sell for 4.1p then, if you over charge by let’s say 2 kwh then in reality you have wasted 6.8 pence. No biggie eh? But if you undercharge by 2kwh it will cost 60p at peak rate. Oh and in the Winter I will be charging to 100% every night as I too have LFP batteries.
Is there any way to check what battery chemistry your car (specifically Tesla Model 3 standard range, 72 plate) is using so you can manage SoC accordingly?
@@NicolasRaimo thanks, just checked and I'm on a LiFePO4. It also says when I reduce from 100% "we recommend keeping your charge limit at 100% and charging fully once per week"
Interesting what you say about charging phones to 100% not a good idea. I suppose a lot of us have that NiCad memory effect still lurking in our minds and think we have to charge to 100%.
@@NicolasRaimo I know but it is difficult to break old ingrained habits and practices. I remember in my radio club when we had a talk on the amazing lengths they had to go to maintain the NiCad radio batteries at Stansted Airport. As a matter of routine they were put on multiple discharge/charge cycles to keep them up to scratch.
So in reality, the battery is charged when 20% and up to 80% a useable 60% capacity. That would relate to 60% of quoted mileage. All to conserve the life of a very expensive battery. It just gets worse.
If you listen to video that’s not what Euan said he even said he chargers to 100% when he needs the range and LFP doesn’t care… it’s more about being kept at high % for long periods or shallow cycled
*Quite agree with all your comments, a few years ago did consider buying an EV as were stated to be the best thing since **_sliced bread_** however now so glad I opted instead to get a Mercedes (W247) B200 CDi AMG 8 Speed [Diesel] with 81 miles on the clock (ex Demo) with all the latest tricks etc - and got a massive discount of nearly £10k from list price. This has absolutely amazed me, so so quiet, incredible range and over 35 mile journey (A6/A46) to Newark in Eco Mode [Freewheels when lifting throttle in 'E' Mode] did nearly 90 mpg - hit traffic near end. This car will no doubt still be running in 20 years time and still giving good sensible practical use. I don't make many journeys outside most EV's Range, but during summertime take generally a trip every week of between 150-300 miles Cotswolds, Wales or Cromer - I start to have Range Anxiety when see only have 60 Miles left in tank and warning light comes on !*
Diesel vehicles give off Carcinogenic Gases that give millions Respiratory sickness and Death. 9 Million a year die from Fossil Fuel Pollution. Wars are fought to keep Heavy Crude( needed for Diesel) flowing from the Middle East. I watch in wonder at some Schools where the Parents and Buses line up on a Hot Day to pick up their Kids. Sitting with A/C on and waiting Children vacuuming up the Cancer Fumes. But as long as you are Happy and don't get Range Anxiety.
I would hire a large-capacity electric car when I need to drive 500 miles. For everything else, there's my cheap, reliable, zero-emissions, zero-tax, super-efficient budget EV with 80-100 mile range. :)
Thanks for this, I accidentally stored my I Pace at 74% for 3 weeks. It's NMC, I tried to login and activate the heating to reduce SOC, but the car had gone to sleep 😮 I estimate in reality 74% is 68% ISH which according to the data given is fine. Was getting stressed, thanks for putting my mind at ease!
I think its important to stress not just that degradation depends on the potential between the cell plates but also the time spent at that potential. Itsn't going to cause a huge problem to charge to 100% just before you set off on a long journey and start discharging the battery - the thing to avoid is to leave the battery at a high state of charge for most of its life while parked up.
Thank you. Very educative.😀🖖
I saw Dr Euan Turk talk at the Fully Charged Show about batteries in Yorkshire a couple of months back. He's a very clever, informative and articulate person indeed. The upcoming progress in battery technology is looking fantastic!
Great video Nicolas; keep them coming. 👍
I got a great interview coming up with him on battery safety make sure you click the 🔔 icon
@@NicolasRaimo I'm amazed his videos don't get more views - so great that you are featuring him on your channel - good to have some science mixed in with all the EV fun :)
Awesomesauce! Thank you both for explaining a complex topic so clearly… ✅ 👏🏻
Glad you enjoyed it!
Great video, thanks! However, could you provide a reference for the part where you say that cycling between 80% and 20% provides a greater energy throughput than smaller depths of discharge around an mSOC of 50%?
Every paper I have read regarding NMC has shown that cycling 55% to 45% shows less degradation than 80% to 20%.
Hey buddy, love your videos about EVs and stuff, really appreciate the work and effort you’re putting in there! One question though: can u perhaps do a video about regen braking and how it affects or not affects battery longevity and degradation? I’m always wondering how this makes sense since a li-ion battery has only a limited number of charge cycles and if every regen braking contributed as a (very short) charging cycle, then the battery would be dad after a year or two. That’s obviously not the case, but why? Thx a lot man and all the best
A cycle is counted as 0-100 regen is hardly a number worth measuring but I’ll consider it as a topic
I have 2 EVs your videos are very helpful
Great to hear!
Tesla tells me to charge my LFP battery to 100%. That's good enough advice for me.
Which is what Euan said
Great video as ever - thanks for this comprehensive answer to a question that must get asked every 20ms on channels like this! :)
Glad you enjoyed it!
Been charging mine to 100% for the last 4 years without any problems at all, so long as you use it within a couple of days and run the battery as low as you can before you recharge it then it will be fine.
When you only have a range of 60 miles in the leaf you have no choice
Haha - yes indeed. However it doesn't seem to cause problems so long as you use the charge that is stored fairly soon after charging. 24kwh (2013 onwards) is maybe more resilient than the battery in the 2011/12 24kwh too? My car has 80k miles on the clock, 11/12 bars health and 80-mile range, but I only occasionally need to charge up to 100%. I need to make a point of doing so every few weeks just to re-balance the battery pack..
Thanks for the very fitting tribute to John Goodenough. He had a long and productive innings. We owe him a great deal.
Well said!
Very reassuring video, thanks very much.
Glad it was helpful!
Great video. Lots of useful advice and information
Glad you enjoyed it
0:08 - I wish we could do that with our Zoe ZE50. It's a nuisance having to open the car door and then press a button on the dashboard. Especially if it's raining.
Saddens me to hear about the news of Professor Goodenough. Also surprised I don’t recall reading or hearing about it in the news at the time.
Great video.
Very useful video. Thank you 👍
Very very useful information. At last a definitive answer to my questions.
And what was the answer you heard and which battery chemistry or use case? 😆 I got Euan to record this as everyone avoids charging to 100 stating it’s bad to do so but having Euan him self stated he does it kinda kills most arguments
I have solar PV (lucky me ..still on high FIT tariff as early adopter) and I needed info re trickle charging to 100% ..a tempting proposition in summer . I now will not be doing this . Thanks again .
I should add , I have a 64kw kona with a summer range of over 300 miles so there’s no point risking it unless I plan a long trip .
"NMC" sounds like a lot of trouble. I shall be very wary of my electric tooth brush from now on.
And there have been a lot of lithium battery fires recently - not least one that caused the destruction of an entire cargo ship.
I understand that batteries which use sodium chemistry are much less combustible than the lithium kind (and lithium batteries even come with their own oxygen supply built in).
But I do not know why Sodium is safer.
After all, a battery is a concentration of a lot of energy in a small space.
That sounds like a good recipe for a bomb, to me - no matter what the chemistry.
So can you explain why sodium batteries are "safer" than lithium batteries?
I would be happy to sacrifice some vehicle "range", if I were confident that my battery was not going to go "bang".
Hi Paul LFP is VERY VERY stable and safe and newer blade cells don't even get hot or vent hot gases video on this soon click the bell not to miss the next video with Euan
I've just bought an Kia Soul EV. My plan is to charge to 75% most of the time. I'm planning to use the Octopus Intelligent tariff with a Ome Pro charger plugged in a lot of the time but controlled by Octopus. This may lead to short cyclinging between 50% and 75%, is this a problem?
This is what I do with my I pace on an portable charger connected to a pod point. I think it's the Optimum option for longer battery life
I brought an Ev from Cinch and they had it for several months before it sold. By the SOC of the battery after only two years I suspect they charged it to 100% and then stored the car until it sold. It was delivered with a very low M/Kwh average but still a high battery state of charge. I have no proof but does Cinch understand how Evs work or indeed any ordinary garage?
I get the impression that there are only a minority of fossil dealerships that are fully trained in EV maintenance and storage.. hopefully that is already changing in advance of the 2030 census.
It depends on battery chemistry
A very well-put-together video
Excellent video and really good information. So, with an LFP home battery connected to solar panels, what should I charge the battery too at night time. I usually charge the battery from off peak based on my predicted amount of solar generation and the predicted home consumption. This often means charging the battery up to 60 to 80% and then it running down to 20 to 30%. But it's hard to predict and charging it to 100% is usually too high as the solar miss max out the battery during the morning and it starts to export which is a little bit of a waste. Any suggestions?
Get a bigger battery? Do you use home assistant to estimate your next day solar and set battery charge rate?
I check the weather forecast as well as what home assistant tells me and make a best guess on how much, if any to add during cheap off peak tariff. But regarding worrying about over charging, if you are like me and buy at 7.5p and sell for 4.1p then, if you over charge by let’s say 2 kwh then in reality you have wasted 6.8 pence. No biggie eh? But if you undercharge by 2kwh it will cost 60p at peak rate. Oh and in the Winter I will be charging to 100% every night as I too have LFP batteries.
Is there any way to check what battery chemistry your car (specifically Tesla Model 3 standard range, 72 plate) is using so you can manage SoC accordingly?
Open your charging menu and click “set limit.” If you see the words daily and trip, then you have an NCA battery
@@NicolasRaimo thanks, just checked and I'm on a LiFePO4. It also says when I reduce from 100% "we recommend keeping your charge limit at 100% and charging fully once per week"
❤ this stealth PlugLife Television 😂
Gotta trick people into science every now and again
Do you mean it could go on fire.
No it won't go on fire.... Weirdly a video about battery fire risks coming up so if you haven't already click subscribe and hit the bell
It all depends what EV you have... Our Model 3 cannot be left at 100% but my BMW i£ can...
It depends on the chemistry of the battery not the make of car the model 3 and bmw both use NMC. I assume you skipped most the video?
@@NicolasRaimo Not true as the Model 3 uses different batteries depending on the model / build and date
@@bitmanev4331 it does correct as mentioned in video later model 3 on std range and long range use LFP which is fine at 100%
Tell me you didn’t watch the video without telling me 😂
Thank you!
You're welcome!
Interesting what you say about charging phones to 100% not a good idea. I suppose a lot of us have that NiCad memory effect still lurking in our minds and think we have to charge to 100%.
lithium batteries don't get memory
@@NicolasRaimo I know but it is difficult to break old ingrained habits and practices. I remember in my radio club when we had a talk on the amazing lengths they had to go to maintain the NiCad radio batteries at Stansted Airport. As a matter of routine they were put on multiple discharge/charge cycles to keep them up to scratch.
So in reality, the battery is charged when 20% and up to 80% a useable 60% capacity. That would relate to 60% of quoted mileage. All to conserve the life of a very expensive battery. It just gets worse.
If you listen to video that’s not what Euan said he even said he chargers to 100% when he needs the range and LFP doesn’t care… it’s more about being kept at high % for long periods or shallow cycled
Electric junk. Best way is to scrap it
Isn't it the fossils that are being junked by 2030? Anyway, if you buy and EV and then junk it let me know so I can buy it off you ;)
YEAR 1 75% OF MILEAGE . YEAR 2 50% OF CHARGE . YEAR 3 YOUR CAR IS ALREADY WORTH LESS THAN 80% OF YEAR 1 . ITS NOT ABOUT THE CHARGE ! .
Year 1 - No, Year 2 - Nope, Year 3 - if you are talking about an ICE then pretty much yes
My 2014 Leaf: 80,000 miles and 80% battery health. Still going strong, and it gets plenty of abuse too!
*Quite agree with all your comments, a few years ago did consider buying an EV as were stated to be the best thing since **_sliced bread_** however now so glad I opted instead to get a Mercedes (W247) B200 CDi AMG 8 Speed [Diesel] with 81 miles on the clock (ex Demo) with all the latest tricks etc - and got a massive discount of nearly £10k from list price. This has absolutely amazed me, so so quiet, incredible range and over 35 mile journey (A6/A46) to Newark in Eco Mode [Freewheels when lifting throttle in 'E' Mode] did nearly 90 mpg - hit traffic near end. This car will no doubt still be running in 20 years time and still giving good sensible practical use. I don't make many journeys outside most EV's Range, but during summertime take generally a trip every week of between 150-300 miles Cotswolds, Wales or Cromer - I start to have Range Anxiety when see only have 60 Miles left in tank and warning light comes on !*
Diesel vehicles give off Carcinogenic Gases that give millions Respiratory sickness and Death. 9 Million a year die from Fossil Fuel Pollution. Wars are fought to keep Heavy Crude( needed for Diesel) flowing from the Middle East. I watch in wonder at some Schools where the Parents and Buses line up on a Hot Day to pick up their Kids. Sitting with A/C on and waiting Children vacuuming up the Cancer Fumes. But as long as you are Happy and don't get Range Anxiety.
I would hire a large-capacity electric car when I need to drive 500 miles. For everything else, there's my cheap, reliable, zero-emissions, zero-tax, super-efficient budget EV with 80-100 mile range. :)