I watched B5 growing up, and it saved me after returning home from 2 tours in Iraq and alcoholism. Clips like this help reinforce a lot of the series morals/ideas. It helped me to stop drinking and make peace with myself.
There were shows like this, and certain music which did the same for me, although my time in a combat zone was short ( Beruit ). Reminders of honor and honesty, in any form helps.
Glad to hear stories like these. Art matters. It's not just escapism. Sometimes something helps us heal, grieve, recuperate, or otherwise move forward with our lives. Glad you found that in Babylon 5, a show which explored the uses and limits of honour, and did so to great effect. For instance, some look at Stephen's "Walkabout" arc and call it cheesy. It's theatrical, to be sure. But, for me, its culmination was very significant more than once in my life. Now, the phrase "I'm alive. Everything else is negotiable" is seared into my brain and serves as a fallback position any time things seem grim. It's my guardian against depression. So, I have an idea of what you mean when it comes to Babylon 5. Be well, brother.
You could also read the Bible and understood. So Babylon (Iraq) has fallen, that too was written thousand years ago. The Devil attacked you for being the hand of God and Destroying Babylon.
Neroon's character arc was one of many things that made this show so amazing. His final scene was heartbreakingly beautiful. "I was born Warrior Caste! But I see now, the calling of my heart is RELIGIOUS! The war is over! Listen to her! Listen!" Brings tears to my eyes just thinking about it.
@@JnEricsonx your kidding. gotta look that one up. One a side note from kenshiro, and since you took time to write a few hrs ago, i have always thought of B5 as a scify soap opera. Hellofa show, just have always thought that.
One piece of background lore that makes this scene shine all the more - particularly the end - is this: If you pay attention in later episodes, a curious thing is discovered - the basis for Mimbari humor is based on wordplay such as puns, and failure to reach enlightenment. So Marcus's words *literally* hit Neroon in the funny bone in precisely the the right way to make him laugh at his own "enlightenment fail" in self deprecation. And it gets even funnier when you consider that - once again - Marcus "out-Mimbaris" Neroon. Which Neroon probably thought was even FUNNIER!! 😂😂😂
"I would speak to him, one warrior to another" - A drastic change in his attitude. Before Marcus he thought humans were weak and unbefitting of the title "warrior" but here he gives him all the respect he feels he deserves. One warrior to another.
In all of his fighting against humans, he only thought they were just desperately trying to survive. Seeing who was willing to go well out of their way to fight for another, even if it meant their own death was a real eye-opener for him. One of the best things about Babylon 5 is the characters & their growth. It's a show that should be watched even by people who don't care for scifi
Agreed, Neroon was a little gem in the B5 series. Although I am always compelled to read the words, "One warrior to another," in Christopher Plummer's Klingon General Chang's voice.
@Fuzzyscarfandmittens Actually the warrior caste did not even respect other Minbari. Even though they literally went to war to fight ancient races like the shadows. In the end, they started a civil war amongst the Minbari because of their massively inflated egos. Which is when Neroon even dies for Delenn. An underrated continuation of his character arc.
Neroon was a great example of the way Babylon 5 made its characters complex and not simple cutouts. He seemed like villain a lot of the time, but was really a good guy.
The redeeming factor about Neroon is that he was always willing to think about what he's doing and take new information on board -- slowly perhaps, and not without a fight from his huge pride and ego, but he gets there in the end. he's hotheaded, but he's willing to admit it once he realized he's wrong.
hagamapama I think there were more redeeming factors about Neroon than that. True, he often seemed like a villain (as Daniel 5 mentioned), but everything he did, he did it because he thought it was for the good of the Minbari people. It was never for personal gain or selfish ambition. Neroon really was a good guy, just somewhat misguided and he had an extremely limited perspective (but as you pointed out, he was always willing to reconsider when the evidence warranted it).
I'm not sure who said it, but it's said that every villain is the hero of his own story. That's what makes Neroon a character, rather than a cardboard cut out. He's not bent on imposing his will on everyone else in the story because it's what he wants. He's doing it because he genuinely believes that he's doing the right thing for those around him. Thankfully, Delen is the same sort of person. So, while they might disagree and oppose one another, there's a lot of room for common ground between them.
doublefine204 That was that crucial scene between Neroon and Delenn, where she told him that she would rather somebody disagreed with her because they genuinely felt they were right rather than agreeing with her out of political convenience. Minbari warriors had fought the war against humanity that *Delenn* had been the one to call for (albeit in a moment of grief). When the Religious Caste abruptly called off the final battle, which they were winning, and surrendered, no explanation was given to the Warrior Caste. Understandably, they were a little pissed. It was a testament to the Minbari culture of being told "What you need to know, and no more." that this happened. But it was a bad idea from a social standpoint. The Religious, and even Worker Castes, might have stood down on Delenn's say-so. But a better explanation *should* have been givent to the warriors, even if it meant hedging on the truth. For example, the Gray Council might have declared that they had beaten humanity all the way back to its homeworld, and that they had avenged Dukhat's death. Showing mercy to non-combatants was merely making a point. The warriors would probably have accepted that and the rift between the Castes would not have happened. Delenn had to learn how to speak Warrior.
+Daniel S The grey council call out the war, but never told why so the rest of the Minbaris all think they did that because of the religious cast. But the council at the time was 9, three from each.
They made it in a storage garage in a parking lot behind a construction site for $800,000 an episode at a time when other sci-fi shows were running around 2 million.
Everybody talks about Neroon's transformation, which is right. But let's not forget Lennier's quiet exposition of reality. "All that we know is that we will die. It is only a matter of How, When and whether or not it is with honour".
@@willt3223 yeah, JMS sacrificed Lennier's character for the sake of narrative convenience. How he acted in that one moment was so out of his character I don't even really consider it canon.
@@zlozlozlo It was well within character. Lennier never thought Sheridan was good enough. Mimbari slow boil then explode into rage/insanity. Hence the Earth/Mimbari war
Remember, Minbari humor was based on failure to obtain enlightenment, to them, seeing someone live through a transcendent, life-altering experience and completely failing to grasp its true meaning is as funny as slapstick is to us. What Marcus said is funny to a human, it's ABSOLUTELY FRIGGING HILLARIOUS to a Minbari.
That's what made this scene so much more enjoyable, it had to be absolutely hilarious from a Minbari perspective for Nahroon to even smile let alone belly laugh.
John Vickery as Neroon was probably my favorite 'recurring' character in the series. A being of honor who had to travel an uncomfortable path to realize it.
Mine too. A great character arc, coupled with exceptional acting, raised what could have been something tragic (in his ultimate sacrifice)… Into one of the best parts of the entire series’ run..
@@rh906 You mistake sarcasm for grumpiness, you must avail yourself to the holy texts (archive comedies) than go to the temple (pub) and worship (get pissed as a fart) with utmost diligence, possibly with a pack of pork scratchings or two.
J. Michael Straczynski, Frank Herbert, Gene Roddenberry and Walter H. Hunt...all showed me through my years what true Sci-Fi could really be. Fantastic stories and amazing characters. Politics, war, love, all of it. Such an amazing genre to read and watch.
We are the Rangers. We walk in the dark places few will enter, we stand at the bridge and no one will cross, we do not run from battle, no matter the cost we live for the one we die for the one
This is one of my favorite scenes in B5. At start of series Neroon viewed humans with contempt and hatred. And yet here we are. To hear Neroon utter those words "I would speak to him alone, one warrior to another" just about moves me to tears. Marcus's actions have caused Neroon to change his view of humans and he now regards Marcus as a fellow warrior, someone of equal status. Marcus earned Neroon's respect. There is a old saying "There is no better praise than to earn the respect of your enemies".
It depends somewhat on what you were being praised for. The Doctor was absolutely devastated when a Dalek praised him for the purity of his anger, saying, "You would make a good Dalek".
4u57inc0v3110 Faramir / Galahad, actually. Sherridan was Aragorn / Arthur. Kosh was Merlin/ Gandalf. The shadow ships were the black riders (they even scream). Delenn was Guinivere / Galdriel / Arwen. Lennier was Legolas. Ivanova was Eowyn / Theoden. The rangers were the rangers / knights of the round table. And instead of Kosh / Gandalf falling into za'ha'dum / kazad dum, it was Sherriden, just to change things a little.
Lennier is more the Samwise Gamdshie to me if you want to compare B5 to LotR. Doing his duty for the ones he loves but never getting the hero treatment despite maybe doing more heroic things then the others do.
Neroon and Marcus stories are mirrored opposites. Marcus wasn't wanting to serve, he was looking to atone (the death of is brother). Neroon was wanting to serve, but he ended up atoning.
"One warrior to another". Words spoken from the most ancient and primal of both human and minbari. To give such an honorific is both difficult, and WELL earned. For Neroon to give such an honorific took all his courage and conviction to give something he felt was his......and his alone. To say that to a being not of his kind is just incredible and shows just how much it takes to earn the respect of one whose whose life from birth to now has been to craft and hone a warrior worthy of his people. And to honor Marcus with the same brush. Neroon reminds me of General Zod.
Fun fact: Actor John Vickery, in addition to playing Cardassians and Klingons on Star Trek, also voiced Kenshiro in the english dub of the 1986 Fist of the North Star. I laugh at the thought of him in the vocal booth going "YAAAAATATATATATATA!!!"
People have always considered this episode as a filler, but I disagree. Oh sure, the whole bit about Grey 17 itself missing was a little silly (especially the Zarg or whatever it was), but the bit about Neroon, Marcus, and Delenn are important in the overall arc.
This helped set up several key events for the entire series going forward: It showed just how far Marcus would go setting up his sacrifice at the end of season 4. It set up Neroon and Delenn as possible allies and it transformed the character of Neroon who had been seen in a different light in previous seasons. This event was the reason Neroon turns against the Warrior Caste later. That paired with the death of his Teacher in season 1.
I don't get why this episode gets flack. The A plot sucks, big whoop, the B/non-title plot is great. Exogenesis is an example of an actually bad episode. The B-plot with Corwin is rendered completely pointless TWO episodes later. The A-plot is awful and horrifying and I hate the ending so much. All it has is some testing ground for the Franklin-Marcus dynamic which is done better in later episodes anyway.
Of course, Marcus and Delenn not dying at that point in time is kind of important to the overall story. The risk that the behavior of the warrior caste posed for the whole Minbari race and the shadow war should have been highlighted more in this and other episodes. Telling the story from both Delenn/Lenniers and the Neroon's perspectives should have replaced the switch between A and B plots.
@@Jokie155 Honestly, the mediocre A plot to me is redeemed when at the End when Garibaldi gets the "where were you? spiel" and he has the look of a schoolboy troublemaker who finally has a perfectly valid albeit strange excuse for his absence.
@@Jokie155 I loved this episode when it first aired, it wasn't until decades later I found out others hated it. I loved the idea of Grey 17 being missing, yes the monster of the week storyline was formulaic but I love the concept of little closed off parts of society only known to a few. While I was at uni in Manchester, UMIST was of bizarre construction. The floors didn't line up, each lift only went to some of the floors and it was a maze just trying to find the right room. I met an old staff member who told me that there used to be a secret hairdressers in the building. To get there you had to go up two stories, down one then up again or something like that. Some staff member had found this hidden disused part of the uni and set up a hairdressers. Customers were sworn to secrecy and had to be provided explicit directions. I think it ran for over a decade before the university caught wind of it. I wish they had done more with the Grey 17 is missing idea, that they had been operating in the shadows gently shaping and controlling the stations future.
Neroon was the embodiment of the best the Mimbari had to offer. A warrior with a religious heart, willing to lay his life down for another, for one person. He is one of my favorite characters.
Neroon came to this state after being taught that lesson by Marcos... Neroon's sacrifice for Delenn was his redemption for what the Warrior Cast had done to Minbar... ;)
I could not help but notice that Neroon said "I would speak to him, one warrior to another". Marcus earned Neroon's respect. It is said there is no higher honor than to earn the respect or praise of an enemy.
Which completely destroyed Neroon's political position, and with it _most of his personality._ "The death was mine." Few people have the strength to run into a brick wall of YOUR GOALS ARE WRONG and then accept it. The Grey Council sure bloody didn't.
If i had wished him dead, he would be dead....I would speak with him alone, one warrior to another....then i will speak briefly. Love John Vickery, a true Shakespearean at heart...quotes of renaissance warrior
erp herp ... but at least the acting in DS9 is decent. I'm struggling to get through the first 4 episodes of b5 because the acting & creative choices are like amateur high school pre-teens with a video camera
This what I loved most about B5, DS9 and Battlestar. It showed that just because it's scifi doesn't mean it can put across messages that make you think or just help you coup with things your going though.
battlestar started off well but was full of shit and mailed in the ending. B5 was planned meticulously with trap doors in case actors ever left. Battlestar became nepotism heavy when starbuck got anders to become a mainstay cast and a final five.
@@willt3223 I think it was more that from the beginning they had the overarching storyline about faith and the idea that they were being watched over by God or something. The individual episodes that touched on different social issues were better because they were single episodes, two at the most. For whatever reason they just couldn't get the overarching spiritual storyline aspect of the show to work which is surprising since Moore wrote for DS9 which did it really well, and B5 also did the spiritual storyline better. As a person of faith, it was great having shows that didn't belittle or just outright disrespect people of faith. I do agree that the fact the B5 was planned out from the beginning was a great idea and really worked for the show. It was like each season was a chapter in a book. They probably should have done that with Battlestar since it obviously was going to have a beginning, middle, and end. They would have had time before filming to work out the kinks and get it right.
This scene: Marcus get's a hearty, genuine laugh out of a Minbari of the Warrior Caste. Another scene: Marcus tells Ivanova about the dragon that came out of his butt. He's a complex character.
See this isn't just some laugh you give when a co-worker tells you a joke near the water cooler. No, this was a grade A example of a Minbari belly laugh. What may have seemed like a pretty funny joke to humans actually turned out to be gut busting humor as explained by Rebo in season 5.
Scenes like this show how good Sci-fi can be on this wasteland called television. B5 is probably the best Sci-fi show ever to grace the small screen. AND you're talking to a Star Trek fan here. And a Star Wars fan as well. It should have been a ten year story arc instead of five. 👍💎
It definitely had enough story for 10 years. I would have loved to see the war with the telepaths or Valen's war against the shadows 1000 years ago and all the other events that we were told did or would happen.
10 years (as an opinion, not fact) would have been "maybe" a year or two too much, but it did needed an extra 2 or 3 years to fill the gaps and arcs...what's not in doubt is the quality of it for most part was extremely good because of the packed goodness and stellar acting and storylines that went into it.
It certainly was an interesting show but there are so many other clever shows like farscape or Buck Rogers in the 21st century that were extremely entertaining in their own way
B5 was such a well-written show with an incredible casts. The F/X was okay for its time, but it was the story that made it one of my all time favorites.
Neroon embodied the warrior caste's negative aspects but, more importantly, he also embodied their positive ones. He had an undeniable sense of honor and principles that drove him. He was dignified, had a clarity of purpose, and rightness. He also was willing to sacrifice himself for the greater good.
Okay im just starting all over again and watch all 5 seasons in a week for the 100th time. This series is beyond outstanding ! love every little piece of it.
Babylon 5 one of the best shows ever written and aired. The writing of this show goes deep into a philosophical debate that has been going on for the history of time. Babylon 5 is the only show ever to not only understand this but get it right. Its a shame we as humans for only a breif moment in time had this level of understanding that this show provided.
@@dickbison i actually still enjoy the battles. it blew my pixel graphics mind back then and i am still in awe of how they did it from a tech perspective.
I hope you did eventually buy this show. I've nearly seen season 1 and I hear it's not the best. If you wish you can start from season 2. Season 5 was made on a very short timescale because the show was meant to be cancelled. Season 5 still has excellent story telling but it's not quite as good as season 2-4.
For a character that showed up as sparingly as Neroon he had such a great redemption arc. and in 30 sec here Neroon goes from Hating Marcus, to respecting him, to liking him.
Neroon was a good man even though he was not. And in the end died honorably for delenn to end a war that tore his people apart we should all be so fortunate In Valen's Name....
Neroon .... Died a warriors death on the wheel of fire.for the One. A great moment when marcus confronts him and invokes den shar .... I miss the show it was made with passion and the crew made us believe in the charactors... story telling at its best as far as im concerned.💯💯💯
Just for future reference... this is a meme right? I've been debating watching all of Babylon 5 in chronological order so I've been watching a ton of clips of the show, and I seem to see some variation of this comment on EVERY SINGLE CLIP. It could be a clip of someone farting into an encounter suit and I'd still find half a dozen "THIS was a pivotal moment in the series. It signified the beginning of his downfall. He isn't even aware of how important this would be in the end" comments.
TheRealAkaRai I second Mr. Smith above. This episode is hugely pivotal in affecting what happens in a later episode. And the outcome of that episode effects the rest of the series. If what happened here had not happened, the shadows would have won.
TheRealAkaRai Babylon 5 was a very unusual show in that one person wrote almost all the episodes and there was a complete story arc for the first 4 seasons right from the begining. Multiple characters have their own unique story arc. Many of the episodes are very well written. With a completed 4 season arc , seeds of future development were able to be placed in the early episodes for many of the characters. The Character development was so good that the series was renewed for a 5 th season which wrapped up what happened to all the characters.
@@TheRealAkaRai I should have seen this sooner but i explained it in another post. This sets up two key points, it sets up a solution for the Minbari Civil War. And Marcus Cole's actions at the end of season 4. Not a meme. This episode made sure several things would line up favorably for the side of light later. J. Michael is a fucking MASTER of long term arcs.
This is one of the best scenes in B5. Neroon is the essence of Minbari spirit static for a thousand years, then an immediate change. He did so here and in the Starfire Wheel.
Pay mind to the fight that lead up to this moment. Marcus invoked a fight to the death. Neroon did not want to get into it, but his honor forced him to answer the challenge. When he had Marcus down, Neroon implored him to run, as it was the only way he could see the fight resolved without death. But Marcus stood firm, so death there was... but not of him.
He walked onto Babylon 5 hating him He fought him and and began to respect him He left that room liking him In later episodes they talk about how Minbari humor is about being failing to learn the lessons about enlightenment, which makes Marcus' comment even funnier...
JMS wanted the emotional impact of having a fallen comrade. He later said, if he knew Ivanova's "decision" to become a starship captain, he wouldn't have killed off Marcus. RIB best bro in the show.
He goes from casually snarling "I broke a rib...I broke another one," as he viciously beat Marcus to pulp, to vastly respecting Marcus for the courage of his convictions and even admiring him. That was the beginning of Sattai Neroon's journey, for sure. This was one of the hardest and most coldhearted Minbari warriors extant at the time and it came to that. That says a lot about Marcus right there, about his bravery and conviction and determination.
Spihk Heartbust!? Spihk Heartbust at home fam, friends, & supporters mates internet friends for people in Starbucks Coffee during the moment Rams Server Bozeman Hotmail Recipient entered Starbucks Coffee with some girl from Pof!
I liked the character of Neroon! He seemed to be the first Mimbari other than the Grey Council who suspected that Jeffery Sinclair was destined for something greater than commander of Babylon 5!
That acting of being injured is so good! Really sold me with the position of the lips, I saw that a lot at the hospital. The body sort of curls up, trying to rest in a fetal position that feels safe and your lips get dry because you don't get to drink a lot.
The characterizations of the performers were occasionally exceptional in the show. I have a warm affection for several of them, and I'm a jaded old bastard. Most especially the character of Londo. I hated having to work during the hours it aired in my country.
Glad I met Peter like 20 odd years ago at a con. Try checking into a hotel, either asking the time or being asked, I dont remember which, and realizing you're next to Londo Mollari.
I could really see the next time the paths of Marcus and Naroon crossing they would have great respect for each other after this, at least a mutual friendly respect of two honourable and highly capable warriors. I would of loved to of watched a scene with these two fighting side by side. Marcus took out everyone in one of the roughest bars on the station without breaking a sweat, but with these two side by side would be beyond awesome. Naroon is the the ultimate Minbari bad-ass of war and sits on the grey council itself as one of the nine. Marcus took out a whole bar of gangsters and Naroon could of killed him almost at will, I can barely imagine how dangerous and effective Naroon truly is. Just glade Naroon did hold honour close to his heart, as he was an awesome and deep character. Naroon and delenn working together was one of my favourite episodes, I would of loved to of seen more of him, but he died how he lived-serving his people. Marcus having the respect of someone like Naroon is so cool and fitting for his character.
"The future is all around us, waiting in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future, or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born…in pain."
I've seen no less than 100 clips of Babylon 5 over the past few years, and I'm about to go buy the whole thing. I wouldn't have done it if it wasn't for these darned clips I keep seeing from random uploaders.
You should. The first season requires some patience, but the show gradually builds up and reaches it's climax in season 3 and 4. If you like shows with politics in them and don't require state of the art effects you will probably like it. Even my grandmother liked it, I don't think she really understood all the sci-fi stuff, but she like the distinct personalities of the characters. G'kar was her favorite if I remember correctly.
But don't skip as things that happened in first 2 sessions tend to have an impact in later episodes (can't even say them because it spoils it, any other show you can because what happened in that episode doesn't really have any bearing on future episodes where as b5 by it maker is a story spread over all sessions
John Vickery as Neroon was awesome. I haven't had the chance to rewatch B5 in literally over a decade, but I still remember with a larf: _"I've just broken two of your ribs..."_ *>WHACK
I agree right when he decides to sacrifice himself for Delenn, I was COMPLETELY in love with the character and his evolution. I believe he was a TRULY honorable and noble soul, because when he entered the Starfire Wheel to save Delenn and take her place, I believe her conviction and strength of will had helped Neroon to see the rightness of her sacrifice and I think he fell in love with her.
I re-watch this show from time to time in order to fully appreciate the depth that this show demonstrated across the story arc and all the characters in it. Lennier and Marcus both devoted to the women they loved, but very different tragic endings.
*It's even funnier if you're a fan of the show and you're familiar with the background and nuances of various characters and races.* *During a discussion about humor we learn that while human humour usually derives from another's misfortune, Minbari humour derives from one's failure to achieve spiritual enlightenment.*
I love this scene! The nobility of their cause even though they are opposite sides. The revelation that he was wrong. And, classic Marcus to make a joke at such a series time. Just loved it!
For me this was based on the samurai ethos of Bushido... The Warrior class of minbari are just the B5 version ... the scene were Neroon and Marcus face of is exactly that marcus knows that he is not a match for Neroon but faces him anyway and says he will die for the One even quoting Valens name. Exactly as any Samurai would have done for his lord. Neroon see's Marcus as a worthy foe who would rather die with honour than live without it... that is Bushido the way of the Warrior.... B5 did those scenes so well made it seem almost tangible... Miss the show greatly it gets better every time i watch it.💯👍💯
babylong 5 cannot be remade and people think its going to be even half as good, it was the perfect storm.......that is what makes it so iconic..every clip you see......fantastic
I watched B5 growing up, and it saved me after returning home from 2 tours in Iraq and alcoholism. Clips like this help reinforce a lot of the series morals/ideas. It helped me to stop drinking and make peace with myself.
There were shows like this, and certain music which did the same for me, although my time in a combat zone was short ( Beruit ). Reminders of honor and honesty, in any form helps.
Glad to hear stories like these. Art matters. It's not just escapism. Sometimes something helps us heal, grieve, recuperate, or otherwise move forward with our lives.
Glad you found that in Babylon 5, a show which explored the uses and limits of honour, and did so to great effect.
For instance, some look at Stephen's "Walkabout" arc and call it cheesy. It's theatrical, to be sure. But, for me, its culmination was very significant more than once in my life. Now, the phrase "I'm alive. Everything else is negotiable" is seared into my brain and serves as a fallback position any time things seem grim. It's my guardian against depression. So, I have an idea of what you mean when it comes to Babylon 5.
Be well, brother.
You could also read the Bible and understood. So Babylon (Iraq) has fallen, that too was written thousand years ago. The Devil attacked you for being the hand of God and Destroying Babylon.
@@notforsale5967 Uhhhhhh...weird flex. But, okay.
N F Do fuck off silly boy,now there's a good chap.
Neroon's character arc was one of many things that made this show so amazing. His final scene was heartbreakingly beautiful.
"I was born Warrior Caste! But I see now, the calling of my heart is RELIGIOUS! The war is over! Listen to her! Listen!"
Brings tears to my eyes just thinking about it.
Not the first truly good-hearted warrior he's played. Was Ken in the animated Fist of the North Star movie.
@@JnEricsonx your kidding. gotta look that one up. One a side note from kenshiro, and since you took time to write a few hrs ago, i have always thought of B5 as a scify soap opera. Hellofa show, just have always thought that.
And thus, the answer to Marcus's question is: no, but he took the discomfort upon himself.
@@Jallorn that was humor Neroon saw. This was his greatest strength.
He also played Rusolt on Deep Space 9
Scenes like this, built from hours worth of character development, are why Babylon 5 is at the top of its league.
It doesn't matter that Sheldon Cooper (TBBT) said, "You call that dialogue?"
@@Eyes-of-Horus TBBT were also written to be impressed by the new Star Wars Trilogy ... instant loss of sci-fi credibility!
100%
I hope that the reboot/reimagining won’t be disappointing
@@Eyes-of-Horus: I don’t know why the writers of BBT didn’t like B5
One piece of background lore that makes this scene shine all the more - particularly the end - is this:
If you pay attention in later episodes, a curious thing is discovered - the basis for Mimbari humor is based on wordplay such as puns, and failure to reach enlightenment.
So Marcus's words *literally* hit Neroon in the funny bone in precisely the the right way to make him laugh at his own "enlightenment fail" in self deprecation. And it gets even funnier when you consider that - once again - Marcus "out-Mimbaris" Neroon. Which Neroon probably thought was even FUNNIER!! 😂😂😂
Zooti zoot zoot.
thank you-Mr.Fowler
So.. "a funny moment from babylon 5" for minbari?
Neat.
Well said !
Well met StarFighter!
"I would speak to him, one warrior to another" - A drastic change in his attitude. Before Marcus he thought humans were weak and unbefitting of the title "warrior" but here he gives him all the respect he feels he deserves. One warrior to another.
In all of his fighting against humans, he only thought they were just desperately trying to survive. Seeing who was willing to go well out of their way to fight for another, even if it meant their own death was a real eye-opener for him.
One of the best things about Babylon 5 is the characters & their growth. It's a show that should be watched even by people who don't care for scifi
Agreed, Neroon was a little gem in the B5 series. Although I am always compelled to read the words, "One warrior to another," in Christopher Plummer's Klingon General Chang's voice.
@@PeterEvansPeteTakesPictures I always thought Neroon should have had more screen time. His charm was great.
@Fuzzyscarfandmittens Actually the warrior caste did not even respect other Minbari. Even though they literally went to war to fight ancient races like the shadows. In the end, they started a civil war amongst the Minbari because of their massively inflated egos. Which is when Neroon even dies for Delenn. An underrated continuation of his character arc.
Of all the great lines in the series, that stands out the most in my mind.
Neroon was a great example of the way Babylon 5 made its characters complex and not simple cutouts. He seemed like villain a lot of the time, but was really a good guy.
The redeeming factor about Neroon is that he was always willing to think about what he's doing and take new information on board -- slowly perhaps, and not without a fight from his huge pride and ego, but he gets there in the end. he's hotheaded, but he's willing to admit it once he realized he's wrong.
hagamapama I think there were more redeeming factors about Neroon than that. True, he often seemed like a villain (as Daniel 5 mentioned), but everything he did, he did it because he thought it was for the good of the Minbari people. It was never for personal gain or selfish ambition. Neroon really was a good guy, just somewhat misguided and he had an extremely limited perspective (but as you pointed out, he was always willing to reconsider when the evidence warranted it).
I'm not sure who said it, but it's said that every villain is the hero of his own story. That's what makes Neroon a character, rather than a cardboard cut out. He's not bent on imposing his will on everyone else in the story because it's what he wants. He's doing it because he genuinely believes that he's doing the right thing for those around him. Thankfully, Delen is the same sort of person. So, while they might disagree and oppose one another, there's a lot of room for common ground between them.
doublefine204
That was that crucial scene between Neroon and Delenn, where she told him that she would rather somebody disagreed with her because they genuinely felt they were right rather than agreeing with her out of political convenience.
Minbari warriors had fought the war against humanity that *Delenn* had been the one to call for (albeit in a moment of grief). When the Religious Caste abruptly called off the final battle, which they were winning, and surrendered, no explanation was given to the Warrior Caste. Understandably, they were a little pissed.
It was a testament to the Minbari culture of being told "What you need to know, and no more." that this happened. But it was a bad idea from a social standpoint. The Religious, and even Worker Castes, might have stood down on Delenn's say-so. But a better explanation *should* have been givent to the warriors, even if it meant hedging on the truth.
For example, the Gray Council might have declared that they had beaten humanity all the way back to its homeworld, and that they had avenged Dukhat's death. Showing mercy to non-combatants was merely making a point.
The warriors would probably have accepted that and the rift between the Castes would not have happened. Delenn had to learn how to speak Warrior.
+Daniel S The grey council call out the war, but never told why so the rest of the Minbaris all think they did that because of the religious cast.
But the council at the time was 9, three from each.
The special effects might seem a bit dated; but the writing...the themes, the emotional impact...all still relevant...
They made it in a storage garage in a parking lot behind a construction site for $800,000 an episode at a time when other sci-fi shows were running around 2 million.
@@cadengrace5466 Also all of the cgi in the first season was done on a Amiga
Best show ever
Relevant? B5 remains to be one of the finest pieces of tv writing, of storytelling, of art. It‘s sort of a religion to me. Nothing compares.
Honestly the effects still hold up pretty well
Everybody talks about Neroon's transformation, which is right. But let's not forget Lennier's quiet exposition of reality. "All that we know is that we will die. It is only a matter of How, When and whether or not it is with honour".
You have to admire Lennier's guts to mansplain to Delenn, especially as she gives him the "I SERVED THE COUNCIL FOR.." look and he holds his stance.
i think he died without, lennier that is from shame of trying to kill sheridan
@@willt3223 yeah, JMS sacrificed Lennier's character for the sake of narrative convenience. How he acted in that one moment was so out of his character I don't even really consider it canon.
@@zlozlozlo It was well within character. Lennier never thought Sheridan was good enough. Mimbari slow boil then explode into rage/insanity. Hence the Earth/Mimbari war
lenier, was wisest and pious
Remember, Minbari humor was based on failure to obtain enlightenment, to them, seeing someone live through a transcendent, life-altering experience and completely failing to grasp its true meaning is as funny as slapstick is to us. What Marcus said is funny to a human, it's ABSOLUTELY FRIGGING HILLARIOUS to a Minbari.
hagamapama, i didn't think of that till now. go figure.
That's what made this scene so much more enjoyable, it had to be absolutely hilarious from a Minbari perspective for Nahroon to even smile let alone belly laugh.
Damn, never figured that before. That is totally true. Makes it even better.
Wow, I never realized that, and I've probably watched it half a dozen times. B5 has such incredible depth.
They would probably make sitcoms about human history then
John Vickery as Neroon was probably my favorite 'recurring' character in the series. A being of honor who had to travel an uncomfortable path to realize it.
Neroon and Bester.
Mine too. A great character arc, coupled with exceptional acting, raised what could have been something tragic (in his ultimate sacrifice)…
Into one of the best parts of the entire series’ run..
I hope he realises, that is not Human wit. It's pure British understatement.
Ahh the British, experts of grumpiness and generally being unhappy.
Ah...the Germans or Russians. Brits are quite humourous. @@rh906
We enjoy being unhappy. We embrace the paradox with all the grumpy cheerfulness you'd expect of the British.
@@rh906
You mistake sarcasm for grumpiness, you must avail yourself to the holy texts (archive comedies) than go to the temple (pub) and worship (get pissed as a fart) with utmost diligence, possibly with a pack of pork scratchings or two.
@@rh906only people we e made unhappy are Germans and the French. But French beer and German cooking deserve ridicule.
J. Michael Straczynski, Frank Herbert, Gene Roddenberry and Walter H. Hunt...all showed me through my years what true Sci-Fi could really be. Fantastic stories and amazing characters. Politics, war, love, all of it. Such an amazing genre to read and watch.
Watch Legend of the Galactic Heroes (1988), an anime based on the books of Yoshiki Tanaka. You will love it!
Neroon laughing scared Delenn and Lennier more than the Shadows did.
I can't think of more things unsettling if you don't know the context.
one fears what one does not understand or expects
That was surprise and wonder she showed.
Marcus was a great character. He always made me think from his look and demeanor that he would fit right into an Errol Flynn medieval setting.
His Robin Hood and Susan's Maid Marian...only Marian puts more enemies on the floor than Robin does.
We are the Rangers.
We walk in the dark places few will enter,
we stand at the bridge and no one will cross,
we do not run from battle, no matter the cost
we live for the one
we die for the one
You realize that entire Ranger quote sounds like it was written for the Fellowship of the Ring in Moria from "The Lord of the Rings"?
@@donaldwatson7698 And?
But we don't die stupidly.
"Our watch has begun"
No one to date in America has earned that. Civilians yes, politicians no.
This is one of my favorite scenes in B5. At start of series Neroon viewed humans with contempt and hatred. And yet here we are. To hear Neroon utter those words "I would speak to him alone, one warrior to another" just about moves me to tears. Marcus's actions have caused Neroon to change his view of humans and he now regards Marcus as a fellow warrior, someone of equal status. Marcus earned Neroon's respect. There is a old saying "There is no better praise than to earn the respect of your enemies".
Plains Nations would sing of honored foes, and those that would sometimes come to celebrate with them after the battle was done.
It depends somewhat on what you were being praised for. The Doctor was absolutely devastated when a Dalek praised him for the purity of his anger, saying, "You would make a good Dalek".
Marcus Cole: Aragorn in space!
4u57inc0v3110 Faramir / Galahad, actually. Sherridan was Aragorn / Arthur. Kosh was Merlin/ Gandalf. The shadow ships were the black riders (they even scream). Delenn was Guinivere / Galdriel / Arwen. Lennier was Legolas. Ivanova was Eowyn / Theoden. The rangers were the rangers / knights of the round table. And instead of Kosh / Gandalf falling into za'ha'dum / kazad dum, it was Sherriden, just to change things a little.
Also, I can't help but think that Delenn is also Morgana, given her role in the Earth-Minbari-War, but Sheridan will never know who she really is.
Lennier is more the Samwise Gamdshie to me if you want to compare B5 to LotR. Doing his duty for the ones he loves but never getting the hero treatment despite maybe doing more heroic things then the others do.
Nemo99 Nemo Lennier was a workhorse much like Samwise.
Marcus was Percival the Pure.
Neroon and Marcus stories are mirrored opposites. Marcus wasn't wanting to serve, he was looking to atone (the death of is brother). Neroon was wanting to serve, but he ended up atoning.
Alit Neroon laughing. One of the best things ever in Babylon 5, lol.
Not to the two religions caste outside: they looked like they heard something VERY wrong XD 'wat? No, it can't... wat?'
IKR?!
Sci fi writing at its finest. "...to be willing do die for one of my kind when I was intent upon killing one of my own."
"One warrior to another". Words spoken from the most ancient and primal of both human and minbari. To give such an honorific is both difficult, and WELL earned. For Neroon to give such an honorific took all his courage and conviction to give something he felt was his......and his alone. To say that to a being not of his kind is just incredible and shows just how much it takes to earn the respect of one whose whose life from birth to now has been to craft and hone a warrior worthy of his people. And to honor Marcus with the same brush.
Neroon reminds me of General Zod.
Fun fact: Actor John Vickery, in addition to playing Cardassians and Klingons on Star Trek, also voiced Kenshiro in the english dub of the 1986 Fist of the North Star. I laugh at the thought of him in the vocal booth going "YAAAAATATATATATATA!!!"
Praise from you enemy...the highest compliment a warrior can give to another.
People have always considered this episode as a filler, but I disagree. Oh sure, the whole bit about Grey 17 itself missing was a little silly (especially the Zarg or whatever it was), but the bit about Neroon, Marcus, and Delenn are important in the overall arc.
This helped set up several key events for the entire series going forward: It showed just how far Marcus would go setting up his sacrifice at the end of season 4. It set up Neroon and Delenn as possible allies and it transformed the character of Neroon who had been seen in a different light in previous seasons. This event was the reason Neroon turns against the Warrior Caste later. That paired with the death of his Teacher in season 1.
I don't get why this episode gets flack. The A plot sucks, big whoop, the B/non-title plot is great.
Exogenesis is an example of an actually bad episode. The B-plot with Corwin is rendered completely pointless TWO episodes later. The A-plot is awful and horrifying and I hate the ending so much. All it has is some testing ground for the Franklin-Marcus dynamic which is done better in later episodes anyway.
Of course, Marcus and Delenn not dying at that point in time is kind of important to the overall story. The risk that the behavior of the warrior caste posed for the whole Minbari race and the shadow war should have been highlighted more in this and other episodes. Telling the story from both Delenn/Lenniers and the Neroon's perspectives should have replaced the switch between A and B plots.
@@Jokie155 Honestly, the mediocre A plot to me is redeemed when at the End when Garibaldi gets the "where were you? spiel" and he has the look of a schoolboy troublemaker who finally has a perfectly valid albeit strange excuse for his absence.
@@Jokie155 I loved this episode when it first aired, it wasn't until decades later I found out others hated it. I loved the idea of Grey 17 being missing, yes the monster of the week storyline was formulaic but I love the concept of little closed off parts of society only known to a few.
While I was at uni in Manchester, UMIST was of bizarre construction. The floors didn't line up, each lift only went to some of the floors and it was a maze just trying to find the right room. I met an old staff member who told me that there used to be a secret hairdressers in the building. To get there you had to go up two stories, down one then up again or something like that.
Some staff member had found this hidden disused part of the uni and set up a hairdressers. Customers were sworn to secrecy and had to be provided explicit directions. I think it ran for over a decade before the university caught wind of it.
I wish they had done more with the Grey 17 is missing idea, that they had been operating in the shadows gently shaping and controlling the stations future.
"He will not hear you"
"Then I will speak briefly"
So many great lines in this series.
Neroon was the embodiment of the best the Mimbari had to offer. A warrior with a religious heart, willing to lay his life down for another, for one person. He is one of my favorite characters.
Neroon came to this state after being taught that lesson by Marcos...
Neroon's sacrifice for Delenn was his redemption for what the Warrior Cast had done to Minbar... ;)
I love this show. Exemplifies how you don’t need a big budget to write a great story.
I could not help but notice that Neroon said "I would speak to him, one warrior to another". Marcus earned Neroon's respect. It is said there is no higher honor than to earn the respect or praise of an enemy.
Which completely destroyed Neroon's political position, and with it _most of his personality._ "The death was mine."
Few people have the strength to run into a brick wall of YOUR GOALS ARE WRONG and then accept it.
The Grey Council sure bloody didn't.
If i had wished him dead, he would be dead....I would speak with him alone, one warrior to another....then i will speak briefly. Love John Vickery, a true Shakespearean at heart...quotes of renaissance warrior
I love that Minbari's character ark through the series. How he started and ended are polar opposites - and very very moving.
The best sci-fi show ever
Wrong. DS9 is the best ... or TNG. I watched much of b5 and the acting is atrocious. Struggling to get through episode 3 at the moment.
@@rollerbladinggeek5507 ah ds9, the intellectual theft clone of b5. thats why you are wrong.
erp herp ... but at least the acting in DS9 is decent. I'm struggling to get through the first 4 episodes of b5 because the acting & creative choices are like amateur high school pre-teens with a video camera
We are all entitled to our own opinions and favorite shows. I love Star Trek too. I personally think B5 was better written, but that’s just me.
Lisa Willis .. that's your opinion 🙄
This what I loved most about B5, DS9 and Battlestar. It showed that just because it's scifi doesn't mean it can put across messages that make you think or just help you coup with things your going though.
battlestar started off well but was full of shit and mailed in the ending. B5 was planned meticulously with trap doors in case actors ever left. Battlestar became nepotism heavy when starbuck got anders to become a mainstay cast and a final five.
@@willt3223 I think it was more that from the beginning they had the overarching storyline about faith and the idea that they were being watched over by God or something. The individual episodes that touched on different social issues were better because they were single episodes, two at the most. For whatever reason they just couldn't get the overarching spiritual storyline aspect of the show to work which is surprising since Moore wrote for DS9 which did it really well, and B5 also did the spiritual storyline better. As a person of faith, it was great having shows that didn't belittle or just outright disrespect people of faith.
I do agree that the fact the B5 was planned out from the beginning was a great idea and really worked for the show. It was like each season was a chapter in a book. They probably should have done that with Battlestar since it obviously was going to have a beginning, middle, and end. They would have had time before filming to work out the kinks and get it right.
The writing for this show was amazing. There were more episodes with superb writing in this show then any other SF show.
Scottlp2
Let’s not forget Flash Gordon now. The original that is.
This scene: Marcus get's a hearty, genuine laugh out of a Minbari of the Warrior Caste.
Another scene: Marcus tells Ivanova about the dragon that came out of his butt.
He's a complex character.
We are Starstuff, the universe made manifest, contemplating itself. We also, occasionally, have dragons in our butts.
But what are you going to do? They are such pesky reptiles.
Laughter is the sign of an intelligent species.
Thus spake the Hyena!
...andit sounds the same in every language...
Hyanas don't laugh, it's a similar sound but meant as a warning cry.
Dr. Black jack taught me that . . .
Notice that you never see Trump laughing
See this isn't just some laugh you give when a co-worker tells you a joke near the water cooler. No, this was a grade A example of a Minbari belly laugh. What may have seemed like a pretty funny joke to humans actually turned out to be gut busting humor as explained by Rebo in season 5.
This is the scene that really drew me to Neroon's character. I was sad they didn't do more with him.
Didn't do more? He got one of the most badass climaxes in the series!
Scenes like this show how good Sci-fi can be on this wasteland called television. B5 is probably the best Sci-fi show ever to grace the small screen. AND you're talking to a Star Trek fan here. And a Star Wars fan as well. It should have been a ten year story arc instead of five. 👍💎
It definitely had enough story for 10 years. I would have loved to see the war with the telepaths or Valen's war against the shadows 1000 years ago and all the other events that we were told did or would happen.
10 years (as an opinion, not fact) would have been "maybe" a year or two too much, but it did needed an extra 2 or 3 years to fill the gaps and arcs...what's not in doubt is the quality of it for most part was extremely good because of the packed goodness and stellar acting and storylines that went into it.
good things come in small packages, better leave it at that :)
It certainly was an interesting show but there are so many other clever shows like farscape or Buck Rogers in the 21st century that were extremely entertaining in their own way
B5 was such a well-written show with an incredible casts. The F/X was okay for its time, but it was the story that made it one of my all time favorites.
Neroon was a true warrior he respected his adversary for his sacrifice and honored it. That's why his character was great to me.
Neroon embodied the warrior caste's negative aspects but, more importantly, he also embodied their positive ones. He had an undeniable sense of honor and principles that drove him. He was dignified, had a clarity of purpose, and rightness. He also was willing to sacrifice himself for the greater good.
@@ryanarment5393 true
This scene permanently solidified Cole as a badass. His finale would put him in the upper tier of Angels.
Okay im just starting all over again and watch all 5 seasons in a week for the 100th time. This series is beyond outstanding ! love every little piece of it.
i guess i have to revisit it too. it beats CSI NCIS and whatever just comes up in TV Nowadays
@Dackel Yolo YES, it is so damn good!
Babylon 5 one of the best shows ever written and aired. The writing of this show goes deep into a philosophical debate that has been going on for the history of time. Babylon 5 is the only show ever to not only understand this but get it right. Its a shame we as humans for only a breif moment in time had this level of understanding that this show provided.
i love that scene - so well written 😂 sadly we don‘t get such writing and acting nowadays
They just don't make 'em like they used to.
100% agree
Neroon vs Worf would be the greatest honor battle in both universes. They would so go out for drinks afterwards.
we need to make this happen, now
@@kickemindafacestyleson6986 T'ealc: "I got next!"
@@jamesmartin9401 kinda unfair, he got the whole split personality with Kratos goin on, but hey, what the hell..BATTLE ROYALE!!!
@@kickemindafacestyleson6986 Hell, Neroon's actor dubbed Kenshiro in the Fist of the North Star anime movie. SO he's doubly used to playing badasses.
@@JnEricsonx i know, i own the original Streamline Pictures version from the 90's. Just a awesome person, would love to meet him
I've seen no less than 20 clips of Babylon 5 over the past few months, and I'm about to go buy the whole thing.
If you haven't already, you should. The graphics are dated, but it is a enjoyable watch
@The high ground Eh, not a big deal, the characters and the dialogue is where it truly shines.
@@dickbison i actually still enjoy the battles. it blew my pixel graphics mind back then and i am still in awe of how they did it from a tech perspective.
I hope you did eventually buy this show. I've nearly seen season 1 and I hear it's not the best. If you wish you can start from season 2. Season 5 was made on a very short timescale because the show was meant to be cancelled. Season 5 still has excellent story telling but it's not quite as good as season 2-4.
Always loved this scene. Hard to believe the actor that played Naroon is 70 years old now.
Best show ever on tv. I bought entire box set ,watch it all the time . Today's shows suck unless privatized.
"I would speak to him, one warrior to another"
"He will not hear you"
"Then I shall speak briefly"
It's nice to see that, even though their views are worlds apart, Delenn and Neroon share that same characteristic humor.
Bad ass.
It's damn rare when someone comes off more stoic than Delenn.
The look exchanged between Delenn and Lennier after he said that was one of my favorite B5 moments.
For a character that showed up as sparingly as Neroon he had such a great redemption arc.
and in 30 sec here Neroon goes from Hating Marcus, to respecting him, to liking him.
And then they killed him off
@@Excalibur01 Killed him off as a hero and a martyr, who saved his entire race with his actions.
I think he respected him even before he did say "as one warrior to another"
Every time I watch this scene it makes me laugh, and reminds me of why I respected the Neroon character so much.
Neroon was a good man even though he was not. And in the end died honorably for delenn to end a war that tore his people apart we should all be so fortunate In Valen's Name....
One of those priceless moments that made B5 such a classic.
Loved that laugh.
Neroon .... Died a warriors death on the wheel of fire.for the One.
A great moment when marcus confronts him and invokes den shar .... I miss the show it was made with passion and the crew made us believe in the charactors... story telling at its best as far as im concerned.💯💯💯
It is scary how much this scene would effect the future.
Just for future reference... this is a meme right? I've been debating watching all of Babylon 5 in chronological order so I've been watching a ton of clips of the show, and I seem to see some variation of this comment on EVERY SINGLE CLIP. It could be a clip of someone farting into an encounter suit and I'd still find half a dozen "THIS was a pivotal moment in the series. It signified the beginning of his downfall. He isn't even aware of how important this would be in the end" comments.
TheRealAkaRai naw dude. This scene is literally a big fucking deal and you don't realize it for a loooong time.
TheRealAkaRai
I second Mr. Smith above. This episode is hugely pivotal in affecting what happens in a later episode. And the outcome of that episode effects the rest of the series. If what happened here had not happened, the shadows would have won.
TheRealAkaRai
Babylon 5 was a very unusual show in that one person wrote almost all the episodes and there was a complete story arc for the first 4 seasons right from the begining. Multiple characters have their own unique story arc. Many of the episodes are very well written. With a completed 4 season arc , seeds of future development were able to be placed in the early episodes for many of the characters. The Character development was so good that the series was renewed for a 5 th season which wrapped up what happened to all the characters.
@@TheRealAkaRai I should have seen this sooner but i explained it in another post. This sets up two key points, it sets up a solution for the Minbari Civil War. And Marcus Cole's actions at the end of season 4. Not a meme. This episode made sure several things would line up favorably for the side of light later. J. Michael is a fucking MASTER of long term arcs.
The Minbari always reminded me of Elves.
+amarieoflothlorien - or the Japanese?
+drx1 xym
For me, it was the later one.
+TheGreaterGood80 Klingon + Vulcan = Romulan?
+TheGreaterGood80 and Marcus is like Aragorn a fellow ranger
The Minbari ARE Space Elves
Later he sacrificed himself to bring peace to his people in a civil war.
And this scene hints at the beginning of his shift to the Religious Caste.
"He will not hear you" "Then I will speak briefly". Even when he is an A-hole, Neroon is such an irreverent chad.
"I WAS BOOORN...WARRIOR CASTE...BUT I SEE NOW...THE CALLING OF MY HEART...IS RELIGIOOOOUS". GOATEST death before Boromir.
This is one of the best scenes in B5. Neroon is the essence of Minbari spirit static for a thousand years, then an immediate change. He did so here and in the Starfire Wheel.
one of those scenes you always remember
Neroon was a marvellous character quite beautifully acted
Still one of the best Sci Fi series ever
Pay mind to the fight that lead up to this moment. Marcus invoked a fight to the death. Neroon did not want to get into it, but his honor forced him to answer the challenge. When he had Marcus down, Neroon implored him to run, as it was the only way he could see the fight resolved without death. But Marcus stood firm, so death there was... but not of him.
My favorite line from the entire show, and I've had many. "Ivanova is God....Just kidding about that God part, no offense..."
"Who are you? What do you want?"
@Lord Nuetral I'm with Sheridan on the subject of asking those questions.
"you're going to resist, I hope"
Ahh when writing and great acting was the heart of a great show. I miss those days
He walked onto Babylon 5 hating him
He fought him and and began to respect him
He left that room liking him
In later episodes they talk about how Minbari humor is about being failing to learn the lessons about enlightenment, which makes Marcus' comment even funnier...
I actually liked marcus one of my favorites, wish he lived and continued to go through season 5
@namikejohnson "What do you want to build?"
@@suchiuomizu Very clever! I think a lot of people missed your humor.
JMS wanted the emotional impact of having a fallen comrade. He later said, if he knew Ivanova's "decision" to become a starship captain, he wouldn't have killed off Marcus. RIB best bro in the show.
He goes from casually snarling "I broke a rib...I broke another one," as he viciously beat Marcus to pulp, to vastly respecting Marcus for the courage of his convictions and even admiring him. That was the beginning of Sattai Neroon's journey, for sure. This was one of the hardest and most coldhearted Minbari warriors extant at the time and it came to that. That says a lot about Marcus right there, about his bravery and conviction and determination.
Marcus brought a lot of emotion to the show.
Spihk Heartbust!? Spihk Heartbust at home fam, friends, & supporters mates internet friends for people in Starbucks Coffee during the moment Rams Server Bozeman Hotmail Recipient entered Starbucks Coffee with some girl from Pof!
I liked the character of Neroon! He seemed to be the first Mimbari other than the Grey Council who suspected that Jeffery Sinclair was destined for something greater than commander of Babylon 5!
That acting of being injured is so good! Really sold me with the position of the lips, I saw that a lot at the hospital. The body sort of curls up, trying to rest in a fetal position that feels safe and your lips get dry because you don't get to drink a lot.
The characterizations of the performers were occasionally exceptional in the show.
I have a warm affection for several of them, and I'm a jaded old bastard.
Most especially the character of Londo.
I hated having to work during the hours it aired in my country.
Glad I met Peter like 20 odd years ago at a con. Try checking into a hotel, either asking the time or being asked, I dont remember which, and realizing you're next to Londo Mollari.
Delenn and Lennier completely flatfooted! I didn't think that was possible for Mimbari - apparently it's quite possible. Never realised it until now!
I could really see the next time the paths of Marcus and Naroon crossing they would have great respect for each other after this, at least a mutual friendly respect of two honourable and highly capable warriors.
I would of loved to of watched a scene with these two fighting side by side.
Marcus took out everyone in one of the roughest bars on the station without breaking a sweat, but with these two side by side would be beyond awesome.
Naroon is the the ultimate Minbari bad-ass of war and sits on the grey council itself as one of the nine. Marcus took out a whole bar of gangsters and Naroon could of killed him almost at will, I can barely imagine how dangerous and effective Naroon truly is. Just glade Naroon did hold honour close to his heart, as he was an awesome and deep character. Naroon and delenn working together was one of my favourite episodes, I would of loved to of seen more of him, but he died how he lived-serving his people.
Marcus having the respect of someone like Naroon is so cool and fitting for his character.
Any only Marcus would be able to get a Minbari warrior to laugh.
Poor neroon, he never did find an easy way to revelation
+Melting_Pot And that made it horribly uncomfortable for those in whose presence he did find revelation.
"I was born warrior caste, but my heart is religious! Listen to her!" - Neroon
"The future is all around us, waiting in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future, or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born…in pain."
Mimbari humour is supposed to be about people who try and fail to reach enlightenment. I suspect this joke was perfect for them.
I've seen no less than 100 clips of Babylon 5 over the past few years, and I'm about to go buy the whole thing. I wouldn't have done it if it wasn't for these darned clips I keep seeing from random uploaders.
You should. The first season requires some patience, but the show gradually builds up and reaches it's climax in season 3 and 4. If you like shows with politics in them and don't require state of the art effects you will probably like it. Even my grandmother liked it, I don't think she really understood all the sci-fi stuff, but she like the distinct personalities of the characters. G'kar was her favorite if I remember correctly.
But don't skip as things that happened in first 2 sessions tend to have an impact in later episodes (can't even say them because it spoils it, any other show you can because what happened in that episode doesn't really have any bearing on future episodes where as b5 by it maker is a story spread over all sessions
That's only because you can't find the whole show on youtube.
One of the best SciFi shows ever made.
And probably my favorite.
John Vickery as Neroon was awesome. I haven't had the chance to rewatch B5 in literally over a decade, but I still remember with a larf:
_"I've just broken two of your ribs..."_ *>WHACK
I think Marcus and Neroon are already friends - or at least comrades.
In the place where no shadows fall...
This incident was the true turning point for Neroon. It opened his eyes to what was truly going on around him.
I agree right when he decides to sacrifice himself for Delenn, I was COMPLETELY in love with the character and his evolution. I believe he was a TRULY honorable and noble soul, because when he entered the Starfire Wheel to save Delenn and take her place, I believe her conviction and strength of will had helped Neroon to see the rightness of her sacrifice and I think he fell in love with her.
I miss Babylon 5, good times, good time indeed.
I re-watch this show from time to time in order to fully appreciate the depth that this show demonstrated across the story arc and all the characters in it. Lennier and Marcus both devoted to the women they loved, but very different tragic endings.
Lennier friend-zoned himself, while Marcus always meaningfully expressed his feelings.
@@blusafe1 "meaningfully expressed", including when he said to her Nu'zen fel'ani in-a lis'e medran, describing it as a common greeting?
One of the best shows ever.
*It's even funnier if you're a fan of the show and you're familiar with the background and nuances of various characters and races.*
*During a discussion about humor we learn that while human humour usually derives from another's misfortune, Minbari humour derives from one's failure to achieve spiritual enlightenment.*
A Fan of, "Rebo and Zootie", I see... ;)
@@SogoTX Zootie... zoot zoot! _leg shake_ 😄
neroon is a true warrior. He respected his opponent and thus allowed him to live.
God I love this show, it didn't always do everything right, but damn they did a lot of it right
I love this scene! The nobility of their cause even though they are opposite sides. The revelation that he was wrong. And, classic Marcus to make a joke at such a series time. Just loved it!
Neroon actually had a sense of humor, when he seemed like a stuffy, pompous, arguementive guy most of the time.
marcus has to be my favourite character from the whole since he has some of the best lines ever
Naroon was a great character, his 'redemption' arch pivoted on this event. Marcus' words could almost be foretelling its conclusion.
For me this was based on the samurai ethos of Bushido... The Warrior class of minbari are just the B5 version ... the scene were Neroon and Marcus face of is exactly that marcus knows that he is not a match for Neroon but faces him anyway and says he will die for the One even quoting Valens name. Exactly as any Samurai would have done for his lord. Neroon see's Marcus as a worthy foe who would rather die with honour than live without it... that is Bushido the way of the Warrior.... B5 did those scenes so well made it seem almost tangible... Miss the show greatly it gets better every time i watch it.💯👍💯
Ugh! Every clip I watch of B5 makes me want to watch the series even more.
Go on, do it!
Still not watching? really?
A truly mavelous show. Recently rewatched it. Even better than I remembered. And I remembered it as pretty great.
babylong 5 cannot be remade and people think its going to be even half as good, it was the perfect storm.......that is what makes it so iconic..every clip you see......fantastic
This is definitely 1 of my favorite scenes!
If anyone could crack up any Mimbari of the Warrior Class - Marcus was one who could do so! He did!
still my favorite scene of the series
And so many amazingly good scenes to choose from. Fantastic writing & acting, I miss B5.
+Akm72 Amen to that!!