Hangar Door, Wings, Wiring, Fuel Tanks, Fuel Senders, etc... (Ep15)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ต.ค. 2020
- There's lots to talk about in this episode of the Zenith CH-750 Super Duty build. I've started re-doing the insulation on the hangar door, I built a work stand for the right wing, installed the top and forward skins, fit the fuel tanks, and now I'm deciding where to mount the fuel senders. Let's dig in...
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Mark, loved the part about about staring (er, thinking) about placing the fuel senders. "Studies have shown" that 20 percent of construction time is wasted on staring at the project. As a side note, my sister lived in Owosso, and my wife grew up in Birmingham. Great work on the build.
Just a pleasure to watch. And yep, better to ponder awhile before cutting anything, and to plan for future maintenence!
Hey Mark, Great Work! I'm following along step-by-step. Going to build my own CH701 in a couple years. Your providing good insight. Thank You!
Really love all the details you provide in your build videos! Keep up the great work and videos!
WoW, Mark, I had no idea how many times you have to Cleco test fit, drill & redrill then remove and Debur, before being able to actually rivet to completion! Can you in one of your videos draw a chart of how many steps it takes for a part, such as a wing, to complete, with ALL the steps. Thank you for your patience.
Your emphasis on thinking things through before committing to a plan is a valuable tip! It never hurts to sleep on a problem and reassess your options! BTW, having very recently "been there, done that" on drilling out the rivets in the top wing root skin to replace my leaking VDO senders with the Stewart Warner senders, it's not necessary to drill-out all the rivets. Once you get a few rivets forward of the spar, you'll find the wing root skins can be simply arched forward and on my STOL 750, I was able to cleco the left and right skins to each other and that held them out of the way. For those building and haven't installed their senders yet, I totally agree with Mark's advice to mount them on TOP of the tank with an access cover and not on the side of the tank!
Kudos to you, Mark! I like the way you go over all the steps in drilling, deburring and riveting! Every time I worked on a metal repair or new build, we always had things together and apart at least 5 times before final riveting, sometimes more. Mind you these were all done with solid rivets( showing my age), but taking the time to do the best you can builds the most satisfaction and admiration down the road. Safety is also a concern, as leaving an aircraft full of drill shavings is not only sloppy, but can lead to wear and corrosion. There's probably a ton of builders who will say they never have had a problem from this, but I would sure hate to be included in the 1 time there is one. You've covered the subject, and your opinions, well during this build
Just in case you’re not aware. They do make fuel sending units that slide up and down on a tube. Do slosh and are very accurate as fuel sender go. Just a thought because that is what I will use on my build. Thanks for the video. 👍
There are always challenging things to think through on the journey of building your Zenith CH-750. I really appreciate the way you explain what you are thinking about doing and how you will do it. I am really excited for your build and trust it will continue to go well.
Temperature. Consistent temperature while building is very helpful to get good fit during installation.
Mount the sender outboard and lower down the tank with the float in the highest corner, diagonally. Best of all worlds. IMHO.
You can shorten the leg of float to use a full travel. But before this will be good to see how it works connected with dial indicator of fuel.
IMHO your videos are the best on the subject of building a Zenith. do you have a CD that shows the whole airplane from beginning to end, if you don't my i suggest that you should, it wouould sell like hot cakes and would prevent inexperienced builders from making umpeteen mistakes and saving them thousands of $$$ nd valuable time. in fct zenith should sell it. thnk you
Thanks Jose. No need to buy a CD- all the videos are free to watch on TH-cam.
Thanks for the efforts Mark. As I suspected, you are passing me on the build; which is great because of all the tips I pick up from you. I am kind of dreading seeing your pitot as I just finished mine and I’ll see your design and think it is better. For what it is worth, I ended up just behind the spar between ribs 6 & 7. I liked the .020 of the bottom skin vs. the 016 of the nose skin. I went with Garmin, used the GAP 26 and was within the the tolerances of the forward of the wing chord. Please keep up the great work!
Nice presentation.
If you shorten the arm of the fuel sender, you can use the entire range of the gauge. Just trim it until it touches the stops in the full up and full down positions.
True, but with these gauges, the arm can not be shortened.
@@KitplaneEnthusiast Bend it in a S or Z shape...
Looks great. Excellent job dressing the wires.
I'll refrain from leaving thoughts on the fuel sensor placement since you didn't ask for viewer comments on the matter.
Really enjoying your videos.
I think that I would probably end up mounting the sending unit just as you pointed out at the end of the video. While it may also make the job more complicated, you can fix the travel issue by shortening the length of the rod the float is on. But if modern avionics allow it, I'd think that you could calibrate the sending units for the E-F range. I appreciate your thought for thinking ahead, though. Sending units definitely fail.
Great video. I’m not a fan of the zip ties. Zip ties get brittle with age and break
Your rationale about the fuel tank indicator is valid. I wonder if you go back to Zenith and discuss it with them, they may accept your point and update their plans or dissuade you otherwise.
True-a lot of people mount the sender on the top of the tank. I'm not sure why Zenith still has it mounted on the side.
Certainly less chances of a leak on top versus on the side
I like the idea of the sender reading empty when you still have a little fuel left, just adds a little safety, that said I don't take an electronic guage's word for what it says, if I had the option I would go for a sight tube.
As for the thumb down crew, I would like it if they would say why they thumbed down, though I didn't know it count as a positive thing with TH-cam, so a big thumbs up for the lesson (I will not feel so down when get one on my channel now).
Mark, is there any reason for NOT routing the wires and fuel lines through the ribs, even if you have to drill a hole and bush it, wouldn't it be closer to the cockpit center, or do the wings fold and require all to be at the pivot point?
Think about an electronic fuel sender, too many problems with that vintage style sender unit, very smart move with the removable plastic cap
I know I will get flak fro saying this, but the fuel gauge is the most useless instrument in the entire airplane. Anyone who flies his airplane based on what the fuel gauge says is crazy LOL! I can add or subtract fuel on my gauge just by pitching the airplane up or down (because it moves the fuel in the tank). I always fly by time. My engine burns 4.6 gallons per hour. I plan on 5. So by flying 1/2 hour or an hour (what ever interval I choose) I always know how much fuel is in each tank. One of the things I love about the Dynon system is that I have it set so that every half hour it gives me an audible "SWITCH FUEL TANKS" message and also puts an alert on the screen. Obviously we have to have fuel gauges, but I use them as a back up instrument that tells me ABOUT how much fuel I have in the tanks.
It amazes me you can get so much work done on the SD AND make videos so frequently! Can't believe you left me hanging. You were almost at the point I was anticipating: Will there be a fuel sender cover on the SD? If not, what did you do to eliminate the cover, and can I eliminate it on the Cruzer? :)
Yes I also made the cover for it. It's nothing special-just a square piece of aluminum that gets screwed to the nutplates you see around the hole. You don't want to eliminate the cover. It is there in case you ever have to service the fuel sender.
Don’t know if you’re going to later but make sure to wrap your wires in Chaffe tape before you zip them down. This prevents rubbing of the wires.
Is there a different type of fuel sender that would be more accurate that you could use? I assume those senders are included in the kit from Zenith.
There's capacitive senders that have no moving parts. I like those better than the mechanical ones shown here.
Mark, ,does it snow where you are? How cold does it get there and can you work in there through the entire winter to be able for you to build as much as possible.
It gets freezing cold here! I do have heat in the hangar, but heating such a large area is expensive. I keep the hangar at 55 degrees and for me, that's a comfortable temp.
Wait B-4 you cut the hole... Can you shorten the Fuel Sender arm to be able to use all of the travel?
No. Getting full travel doesn't matter. It's just that the more travel you have, the more points the gauge has to measure.
You could put an S bend in the float arm to shorten it also if you want to get the full range of travel for greater accuracy.
Can I ask you where you got the construction manual that has the area where you check off that you did that process? Is that included in the plans or did you put it together? Does it come with the 750 Cruzer? Thanks for your time.
That is the new manual for the Super Duty.
@@KitplaneEnthusiast Thanks.
Watching these videos got me thinking ground school students should view one a day to appreciate what keeps them airborne and alive. I flew a lot of Cessnas and never had an accurate reading from gauges. Do the homebuilts with see through tubing have the best accuracy? Isn't there something better than the senders you are showing?
Enjoy the videos. Isn’t it crazy how expensive that pink foam is?!
Yes! And it's amazing how different the prices are comparing one Home Depot to another. At the local store, it was $35 dollars a sheet. At the Home Depot 15 minutes up the road, it was $28/sheet. And at that store only, if I bought 24 sheets, it lowered the price to $21 something! Then I get my 10% military discount!
Why can't you bend the wire (rod) up or down to allow the mounting location of the base in the optimal
place.
Where is the optimal place?
@@KitplaneEnthusiast You were showing how if you position the unit with the float forward in the tallest portion of the tank, then you have either dead space above or below the float. But if you bend the rod up or down slightly, it would allow the float to touch both the top and bottom of the tank. Giving the greatest amount of gauge accuracy.
@@edwardmullen1581 Bending the rod would do nothing. Consider this-let’s day it’s positioned so that at full down travel the float is touching the bottom. At full up travel, the float goes above the tank, so we bend the rod down so that the float is now just at the top of the tank. Now what happens when we lower the float (with the bent arm) back to the lower position? Answer: we no longer get full down travel because we bent the arm down. The only way to truly get full travel is to shorten the arm, which on these particular senders, we can’t do.
I don't think that I've ever been 1st ! Not that it matters much. Have you given any thought or consideration to a non-mechanical sender? homebuiltHELP did an interesting video on them. I'm aware that Zenith provides one in the kit...just curious. Also , how many gallons did you opt for? Thanks for the update... Blue Skies!
I do like the new unit from beelight
I looked at the sender from Beelight when I was building my Cruzer and was turned off by the cost. Plus, others were posting that they had problems with them. I also looked at the sender from Viking aircraft but laughed when I was quoted $700.00!
@@KitplaneEnthusiast from what I have read the issues were fixed with software but haven't heard much since the fix but I like the fact its tiny
Thanks Mark... what's the capacity per??
Mr Mark,
Please do your next build as all electric. I think you like the newest technology so this is why I suggest this. Batteries getting better and cheaper every day. Thank you
Wow, that's what pink foam is for. I used it to make my wings. Silly me.
I also have a top secret project I'm using the foam for, but I can't tell you yet. But let me just say, it will be the coolest thing you've ever seen!
@@KitplaneEnthusiast Can't wait to see!
Have you looked at the Grip Lock type zip ties? What do you think of them. Mostly my experience with the type you use is they break after a few years.
Can you plug in the sender unit to see where the extents register on your guage?
No...because the gauge is built in to the Dynon HDX that I don't have yet LOL. Each fuel gauge gets calibrated by adding one gallon at a time to the tank and pressing a button on the Dynon. Obviously this gets done when he airplane is complete and ready to fly.
I would mount it inward to give yourself a “reserve”. Math should tell you the exact position for the number of gallons the reserve would be. Just my thoughts
Is the reason for slowly enlarging the drilled rivet holes for alignment or worried they wont center properly?
If You want the largest travel for the float, why dont shorten the arm? Then You can get full travel.
I would go 90* to the way you were showing.
Exactly, does the lever arm have to be inline with the plane? Mount it towards the larger side of the taper, with the float pointing towards the fuselage leaving a couple inches of clearance all around.
Great-nothing wrong with mounting it that way either.
It seems like the capacitive fuel senders are not that expensive, so for the convenience and accuracy, I think that is the way to go. I think they probably last a lot longer than the resistive type, too. Did those come with the kit?
When are you going to do the update, on the "Monster CORVETTE LS-3 Engine on a VELOCITY Kitplane?"
Well it sounds like he's given up hope on ever getting his gearbox back. I know right now he is working on his interior, and his seats are at the upholstery shop. Hopefully once his interior is done, he will at least let me do an update then.
Can't you cut the rod on the fuel sender shorter and rebind where the float goes that way you can put it closer to where you want it???
I already have it exactly where I want it!
Is the old clear plastic tube fuel gage an option for the super duty? Similar to J3 Cub.
You should insulate / cover the windows too.
Is the super duty bigger than the cruzer? Those wings look huge, will both planes fit in the hangar?
Why not mount the fuel sender at an angle so that the float is close to the deepest corner of the tank and get the fullest reading?
There are plusses and minuses to any spot you choose to mount the sender. Mount it where it works best for you!
Awww, no thumbdowns this time? C'mon man, you ruined it!
(kidding, awesome work)
Oh don't worry, the losers will return!
So awesome! Your Trump flag is pretty awesome too!
Would mount it like you showed last. maximum travel less "reserve" You'll be doing mental gymnastics about "reserve" fuel quantity. Not good. rely on the gauges.
I tried to give 2 thumbs down, it only allows one, so no thumbs down cause i didn't get what i want.🤣