ray does have multiglide actually, you can renew it (alongside with resetting its decay timer) by bouncing off badniks he is a character with a very high skill floor much like his mania plus itteration, so holding that against him seems like its done in bad faith (especially since you did account for your inexperience with vector when ranking him) as a person who played a considerable amount of time with ray, i can say that he feels AMAZING in vanilla levels. his glide doesnt just entail nyooming in widely open areas with barely any hazards, the entire point is how you can maneuver him to get the most out of the glide ray is quite literally capable of clearing GFZ1, arguably the most cramped level in the base game, while only touching the ground TWICE
This comment is the best way I’ve seen it described. I tried describing it myself to no avail, but you’ve got a great point, dude. Ray’s character, even in Mania, is on how you can use the glide to YOUR personal advantage.
I'd say Ray, at least in his current state, fairs better in large, open environments where he can gain enough speed to fly high and maintain his glide. The vanilla levels are often cramp and you hit walls a lot. It's so fun using the cape in SMW cause the levels allow that freedom and even have secrets dedicated to the cape. Sonic Mania, again, really fun to use there. Great speedrunning tech. Here, not so much in the vanilla campaign.
With Metal Sonic being an outlier due to his design being quite similiar to the Classic design. Quite unfair considering that Ray didn't receive anything outside of Archie comica in term of modern design
That’s RUTHLESSLY unfair to Ray because like the comment above me, he’s only in the Classic era, the only time he had a Modern Design was in Archie and that’s long gone. It’s like comparing Mighty to someone like Shadow. Of course Shadow’s gonna look “cooler” because Mighty doesn’t have a Modern design to match with him
Just as a tip, Ray can reset the glide without touching the ground if you bounce over an enemy or an itembox, I know its not the same as a multi glide but still it rewards you for doin it so...
Disagreed with most of this review, i think something that's being missed here is that if Ray didn't have his wall cling in most cases he would just go into a ball and drop with no way to recover. The wall detection is mostly on srb2's side and not ray's. It's also meant to discourage hugging walls and help with redirecting and positioning which can save you from a lot of situations if used well. The thing about Ray's glide is that you need to understand how to maneuver it and when to refresh it (I noticed the glide decay isnt mentioned at all here, and how you have to refresh it or how super gets rid of it entirely, it's also worth mentioning this is another reason why the wall cling exists). It's totally possible to use it to its fullest potential in the vanilla levels but it requires mastery of the mechanics, which understandably can be a bit tough sometimes but the results are worth it. Adding a multi-glide like suggested here would completely trample over the way Ray was designed to play and i think dedicating more time to learning him would do wonders to how you feel about his playstyle, since admittedly Ray is not an easy character to fully grasp at first.
Perhaps I didn't explain it particularly well, but what I meant by getting rid of the Wall Cling is also to get rid of the interaction Ray has walls completely, so that he wouldn't drop if he got too near one. Obviously, if you were to go face-first into a wall then, you'd lose all your speed and die because of that, but that'd be deserved. My bigger problem was when you'd vaguely scratch a wall by getting too close, clearly not intending to actually try to use the Wall Cling, but have it activate anyway, because that'd probably kill you as well. As for the glide decay, I didn't think it to be a particularly notable trait. Vanilla glides aren't long enough for it to become particularly noticeable unless you're going straight up, but when taking into account how a pitch and dive system works both in games and in reality, you'd always expect that to occur.
@@The_JackalMan If you graze a wall you'd still be just taken out of your glide, cling or not. thats how srb2's wall detection works. Would you rather be abruptly taken out of your glide and fling god knows where with no control or would you rather cling to the wall with the choice to reposition yourself?
@@The_JackalMan I think what your problem is imo, is that you're not even trying to adapt to Ray's gameplay style or understand what it's intentions are. Thus, making yourself look like you're screaming and bitching about skill issues on YOUR end for not trying to learn and experiment. The wall cling automatically attaches you to a wall? Sounds like you're getting too comfortable near walls while gliding. Besides as Vanto pointed out, it's there to allow you to have a chance of not uselessly fall into a pit or hazards, so you can have a chance to redirect yourself to safety. On another note, in future reviews, please actually do your research before spouting out bs like this or at least try to consider what the gameplay styles of an addon character is going for more, because it sounds like you're trying to be a know-it-all but you actually are just missing the point of the character in question or are just being an overall dick about it.
Ray initially appeared in SEGA Sonic the hedgehog. An arcade game. He later appeared again in Mania +, where his gameplay sans the wall cling came from.
Man. He’s just as broken as he is in Mania. Honestly, I love the dude. I know a lotta people say he needs big maps and such, and while that is true, the point of his character is to make big sections *easier* yet more fun. He can be used in smaller areas as well for quick momentum gaining and such, but his glide ability isn’t one that’s meant to be used every chance you get. That’s what makes his over powered ability balanced.
Man. You speak about Ray as if you don’t know him. He IS an official Sonic character, so that whole not liking his design in the sprites section was uncalled for.
@Doxthefox no, Mighty and Ray both have a wall cling for completely separate reasons. Mighty had it in Knuckles Chaotix, in which he could redirect himself and keep speed, could also be used as a wall jump. Ray gains WAY less height and less speed due to it being used as a redirection move *primarily* and doesn’t serve any other purpose. Plus, it fits that they both have it considering they’re an iconic due in the series, just not as much so as say, Sonic and Tails.
@@justsans. okay well characters don’t always have to have good stats for every single move to make them good and balanced, his glide is already really good at making speed and wall clinging is kinda made to be a punishment if your going for that, but it could also be helpful if the player knows how to use it
@Doxthefox i didn’t say he shouldn’t have it. i enjoy using it. I was saying that you saying it fits him more than ray doesn’t really make sense as they have two entirely separate purposes.
There's a few things about Ray's wall cling that clicked for me but didn't for you - most notably refreshing glide by hitting a wall, which almost allowed me to break ACZ1 and DID allow me to break ERZ2. No, the bit that messes with ME is having to turn camera while holding Jump, because the camera doesn't adjust to the new glide angle. Might just be a Manual/Strafe thing.
I was initially weirded out by seeing that big ray sprite because of the color choice, in the srb2 mod they used brown, when in his official appearance is more orange-ish/red-ish than anything
Yeah, the wall cling is way too finicky for me. I kind of wish it was like mighty's where releasing jump was what made you jump off the wall. Though, I do think he is supposed to be based off of a combination of sonic mania and squirrel mario from NSMBU
On keyboard and mouse Ray is probably a lot better than on gamepad which is what the recorded gameplay looks like to me. If you're skilled enough, Ray doesn't actually need a very open map, especially if you're using a mouse to steer the glide. The only part of this video that I agreed with was how the wall cling is shit, I am yet to find a use case for it.
8:43 - And people say Blue Arms for Sonic looks bad; Tan Patagiums are straight-up off-putting, especially when official Ray artwork have them yellow like his fur. Even real flying squirrels have them covered in fur, they don’t have exposed flesh.
I think that the wallcling could have been fixed if Ray didn't lose speed and could easily resume his flight. Like, imagine this: You fly on a wall, you then cling onto a wall, then you fly to the other wall with equal speed. You could even have more speed when juming off of a wall, which would have encouraged the player to cling onto walls to keep speed.
Yeah, Ray's moveset is prime for speedrunning in open areas. Unfortunately, the base levels in SRB2 are way too cramped for this (besides some parts of Arid Canyon and Red Volcano).
Looks interesting! It's been a long while since I last touched Modern Sonic to know what's changed, but remind me when V6 comes out and I'll look into potentially doing a video.
I personally disagree with this score. In my personal opinion, I say keep the wall-cling because it's meant to be used as a sort of breather moment to know where to head next even with cramped spaces. I've done a quick research on his moveset, and that you're supposed to keep the jump button held for the cling to work and not every single surface is meant to be clingable like with Knuckles, but unlike Knuckles where he can move in the walls, Ray instead can cling as many times as he wants even when the glide is lost as long as he isn't in his damaged or walking/running state. This ability to infinite cling is actually really good and kinda fits with the character's plucky comic relief nature.
I like how you made a video hating on the 06 level pack but most of this video is gameplay of you playing the pack (edit: I watched till the end and you explain it’s cuz they’re bigger than the the vanilla stages, which even then like there’s other level packs out there in case you still hate it)
@@Doxthefox It works better in this case because of Ray's overall shape. With Mighty, the entire design of the character is lost from that angle, so it looks like some ball with handlebars rather than Mighty.
@@The_JackalMan also I don’t really think there’s a way to “improve it” cuz if mighty were to have the same animation like ray then that wouldn’t work, I actually like how mighty is putting down his head, it shows how determined he is and it also indicates the player that his red shell is what he uses as a shield
ray does have multiglide actually, you can renew it (alongside with resetting its decay timer) by bouncing off badniks
he is a character with a very high skill floor much like his mania plus itteration, so holding that against him seems like its done in bad faith (especially since you did account for your inexperience with vector when ranking him)
as a person who played a considerable amount of time with ray, i can say that he feels AMAZING in vanilla levels. his glide doesnt just entail nyooming in widely open areas with barely any hazards, the entire point is how you can maneuver him to get the most out of the glide
ray is quite literally capable of clearing GFZ1, arguably the most cramped level in the base game, while only touching the ground TWICE
This comment is the best way I’ve seen it described. I tried describing it myself to no avail, but you’ve got a great point, dude. Ray’s character, even in Mania, is on how you can use the glide to YOUR personal advantage.
Better than the actual review
Same, i player around with vector and he is GREAT to play as
I'd say Ray, at least in his current state, fairs better in large, open environments where he can gain enough speed to fly high and maintain his glide. The vanilla levels are often cramp and you hit walls a lot. It's so fun using the cape in SMW cause the levels allow that freedom and even have secrets dedicated to the cape. Sonic Mania, again, really fun to use there. Great speedrunning tech. Here, not so much in the vanilla campaign.
9:46 “i prefer the more modern character designs” proceeds to show only robot characters
With Metal Sonic being an outlier due to his design being quite similiar to the Classic design.
Quite unfair considering that Ray didn't receive anything outside of Archie comica in term of modern design
That’s RUTHLESSLY unfair to Ray because like the comment above me, he’s only in the Classic era, the only time he had a Modern Design was in Archie and that’s long gone.
It’s like comparing Mighty to someone like Shadow.
Of course Shadow’s gonna look “cooler” because Mighty doesn’t have a Modern design to match with him
Just as a tip, Ray can reset the glide without touching the ground if you bounce over an enemy or an itembox, I know its not the same as a multi glide but still it rewards you for doin it so...
Disagreed with most of this review, i think something that's being missed here is that if Ray didn't have his wall cling in most cases he would just go into a ball and drop with no way to recover. The wall detection is mostly on srb2's side and not ray's. It's also meant to discourage hugging walls and help with redirecting and positioning which can save you from a lot of situations if used well.
The thing about Ray's glide is that you need to understand how to maneuver it and when to refresh it (I noticed the glide decay isnt mentioned at all here, and how you have to refresh it or how super gets rid of it entirely, it's also worth mentioning this is another reason why the wall cling exists). It's totally possible to use it to its fullest potential in the vanilla levels but it requires mastery of the mechanics, which understandably can be a bit tough sometimes but the results are worth it. Adding a multi-glide like suggested here would completely trample over the way Ray was designed to play and i think dedicating more time to learning him would do wonders to how you feel about his playstyle, since admittedly Ray is not an easy character to fully grasp at first.
Perhaps I didn't explain it particularly well, but what I meant by getting rid of the Wall Cling is also to get rid of the interaction Ray has walls completely, so that he wouldn't drop if he got too near one. Obviously, if you were to go face-first into a wall then, you'd lose all your speed and die because of that, but that'd be deserved. My bigger problem was when you'd vaguely scratch a wall by getting too close, clearly not intending to actually try to use the Wall Cling, but have it activate anyway, because that'd probably kill you as well.
As for the glide decay, I didn't think it to be a particularly notable trait. Vanilla glides aren't long enough for it to become particularly noticeable unless you're going straight up, but when taking into account how a pitch and dive system works both in games and in reality, you'd always expect that to occur.
@@The_JackalMan If you graze a wall you'd still be just taken out of your glide, cling or not. thats how srb2's wall detection works. Would you rather be abruptly taken out of your glide and fling god knows where with no control or would you rather cling to the wall with the choice to reposition yourself?
@@The_JackalMan I think what your problem is imo, is that you're not even trying to adapt to Ray's gameplay style or understand what it's intentions are. Thus, making yourself look like you're screaming and bitching about skill issues on YOUR end for not trying to learn and experiment. The wall cling automatically attaches you to a wall? Sounds like you're getting too comfortable near walls while gliding. Besides as Vanto pointed out, it's there to allow you to have a chance of not uselessly fall into a pit or hazards, so you can have a chance to redirect yourself to safety.
On another note, in future reviews, please actually do your research before spouting out bs like this or at least try to consider what the gameplay styles of an addon character is going for more, because it sounds like you're trying to be a know-it-all but you actually are just missing the point of the character in question or are just being an overall dick about it.
Ray initially appeared in SEGA Sonic the hedgehog. An arcade game. He later appeared again in Mania +, where his gameplay sans the wall cling came from.
The wall cling come from uh 3air also sans? Do you mean since?
sans the wall?
@@justsans. The wall cling Ray has in the mod.
@@Michael72022 I didn't know that. I was just talking about Ray's glide gameplay.
@@Michael72022 sans means "without" in like french i'm pretty sure
Man.
He’s just as broken as he is in Mania.
Honestly, I love the dude. I know a lotta people say he needs big maps and such, and while that is true, the point of his character is to make big sections *easier* yet more fun.
He can be used in smaller areas as well for quick momentum gaining and such, but his glide ability isn’t one that’s meant to be used every chance you get. That’s what makes his over powered ability balanced.
Man.
You speak about Ray as if you don’t know him. He IS an official Sonic character, so that whole not liking his design in the sprites section was uncalled for.
I don't think Ray needs a multi-glide, but that wall cling definetely needs to go even if it did function correctly.
Nah I think he should have it, 85 fits with his character being a squirrel and it fits better than mighty
@Doxthefox no, Mighty and Ray both have a wall cling for completely separate reasons.
Mighty had it in Knuckles Chaotix, in which he could redirect himself and keep speed, could also be used as a wall jump.
Ray gains WAY less height and less speed due to it being used as a redirection move *primarily* and doesn’t serve any other purpose.
Plus, it fits that they both have it considering they’re an iconic due in the series, just not as much so as say, Sonic and Tails.
@@justsans. okay well characters don’t always have to have good stats for every single move to make them good and balanced, his glide is already really good at making speed and wall clinging is kinda made to be a punishment if your going for that, but it could also be helpful if the player knows how to use it
@Doxthefox i didn’t say he shouldn’t have it. i enjoy using it. I was saying that you saying it fits him more than ray doesn’t really make sense as they have two entirely separate purposes.
@@justsans. Oke. I think ray fits better with it since he’s a squirrel, but I do like it for both
There's a few things about Ray's wall cling that clicked for me but didn't for you - most notably refreshing glide by hitting a wall, which almost allowed me to break ACZ1 and DID allow me to break ERZ2.
No, the bit that messes with ME is having to turn camera while holding Jump, because the camera doesn't adjust to the new glide angle. Might just be a Manual/Strafe thing.
I was initially weirded out by seeing that big ray sprite because of the color choice, in the srb2 mod they used brown, when in his official appearance is more orange-ish/red-ish than anything
Yeah, the wall cling is way too finicky for me. I kind of wish it was like mighty's where releasing jump was what made you jump off the wall. Though, I do think he is supposed to be based off of a combination of sonic mania and squirrel mario from NSMBU
On keyboard and mouse Ray is probably a lot better than on gamepad which is what the recorded gameplay looks like to me. If you're skilled enough, Ray doesn't actually need a very open map, especially if you're using a mouse to steer the glide. The only part of this video that I agreed with was how the wall cling is shit, I am yet to find a use case for it.
8:43 - And people say Blue Arms for Sonic looks bad; Tan Patagiums are straight-up off-putting, especially when official Ray artwork have them yellow like his fur.
Even real flying squirrels have them covered in fur, they don’t have exposed flesh.
I think that’s just shading, it’s the same color as the shadows of his head and tail.
thats just the shading lmao, theyre not tan, theyre colored after the darkest shade of his fur
FINALLY
A GOOD 2.2 RAY
I think that the wallcling could have been fixed if Ray didn't lose speed and could easily resume his flight. Like, imagine this: You fly on a wall, you then cling onto a wall, then you fly to the other wall with equal speed. You could even have more speed when juming off of a wall, which would have encouraged the player to cling onto walls to keep speed.
Fun fact: Ray's ability is actually charability 3 (glide) but edited
Yeah, Ray's moveset is prime for speedrunning in open areas.
Unfortunately, the base levels in SRB2 are way too cramped for this (besides some parts of Arid Canyon and Red Volcano).
They're called patagia, not skin flaps.
button issue, the wall cling works just fine for me. then again I'm using a ps5 controller. love your vids
Hey, JackalMan! You should review Modern Sonic V6 when it releases! ( In a few months. ) It has entirely new sprites, new moves and physics!
Looks interesting! It's been a long while since I last touched Modern Sonic to know what's changed, but remind me when V6 comes out and I'll look into potentially doing a video.
@@The_JackalMan Sure!
This Ray is definitely inspired by Ray from Sonic 3 AIR atleast for the moveset.
Soooo Max control pack?
I personally disagree with this score. In my personal opinion, I say keep the wall-cling because it's meant to be used as a sort of breather moment to know where to head next even with cramped spaces. I've done a quick research on his moveset, and that you're supposed to keep the jump button held for the cling to work and not every single surface is meant to be clingable like with Knuckles, but unlike Knuckles where he can move in the walls, Ray instead can cling as many times as he wants even when the glide is lost as long as he isn't in his damaged or walking/running state. This ability to infinite cling is actually really good and kinda fits with the character's plucky comic relief nature.
Oh cool Ray review
JackalMan? _Getting good with a character??_
What is this timeline...
I like how you made a video hating on the 06 level pack but most of this video is gameplay of you playing the pack (edit: I watched till the end and you explain it’s cuz they’re bigger than the the vanilla stages, which even then like there’s other level packs out there in case you still hate it)
th-cam.com/users/clipUgkxcgYn8eI2aXzUKjTGkRR16jaNGSgdm_jE?si=rtW8eVf-u69CaMvb
Also you don’t point out the run animation despite you pointing out mightys which are basically the same (which I welcome cuz it’s a reference)
@@Doxthefox It works better in this case because of Ray's overall shape. With Mighty, the entire design of the character is lost from that angle, so it looks like some ball with handlebars rather than Mighty.
@@The_JackalMan idk I mean mighty already has a big forehead and it looks okay to me
@@The_JackalMan also I don’t really think there’s a way to “improve it” cuz if mighty were to have the same animation like ray then that wouldn’t work, I actually like how mighty is putting down his head, it shows how determined he is and it also indicates the player that his red shell is what he uses as a shield
I don’t really see the need for a new ray mod
FINALLY!!!
Skill issue.
Skill issues
Skill issues.
Who is waching in 2036 in August 12