While the advances in code lighting, especially LED, is just awesome, I think the old days of maybe 6 rocker switches for both warning and scene lighting, was the simplified system we miss. Today, I often see emergency fire rigs responding without key lights that should be activated, or things like the rear amber directional stick (arrow) in the wrong flash pattern. Engineers are very busy and may not have the time to mess with lighting arrays/options.
I have made similar experiences. Some make mistakes with the lighting controls, others are too busy to check the active buttons. Issues like these can be easily addressed with a Whelen Core system, a good controller as well as automated features and proper programming. The question about ease of use is one of the first when I'm programming these systems for a customer. Another pretty dangerous example that just comes to my mind is drivers who turn on the siren but forget to turn the emergency lights on. This is something I'm suggesting to basically everyone of my customers. When the siren is on (sometimes coupled to a timer like "when the siren is on for more than 5 seconds"), then turn on the emergency lights as well. This fixes human error and for some this makes controls easier and quicker since they just have to turn on the siren.
Well isn't that kinda the point Mr Caffeine just made? Set it up once & just turn it on, then the control zone will turn the lights on/off for the conditions: day/night, running/on-scene. I don't usually like a lot of gadgets on trucks but this system may be quite useful. Besides, we need to use all that state grant money, right?
As someone who specialized on lights & sirens I've gotta say that I'm not a fan of that lightbar/ system. It is something different that's for sure and probably saves some time but would anyone really want to save time when it comes to thinking about the most important safety feature of an emergency vehicle? The patterns shown here for example are mostly missing contrast, resulting in much less warning output. To me, Whelen Core is the golden standard because I can program an unbelievable amount of functions into that system or just keep it safe, simple and effective. It allows agencies to complete overthink their entire light setup and every single aspect of it; easy controls, patterns for foggy and other bad weather conditions (keyword: being blinded by your own lights), thought through low power patterns at night, automated features and so on. As an independent programmer for these controllable systems I would say that a little extra work definitely pays off for additional safety and comfort for the driver, crew on scene and for other motorists. On the other hand you can save money by thinking about the removal of unnecessary lights. In the end proper evaluation of the light setup and every pattern will always be the best and safest way to go. The effects of some choices should not be taken lightly. I can already see some people that are using the HiViz system to be like "oh this looks cool from 10ft away so let's just take this pattern".
AYO NAH HOLD UP you commented the same thing on the Instagram bro a'ight now I know this ain't no mistake found the Wh*len shill. Nice try Wh*len but I'm not falling for it. I still think about the insult Wh*len did to Edward Nunn's creation and the bootlegging of Unitrol EVERY MORNING . I don't like HiViz's perimeter light offerings but he sure as h█ll is more approachable than Wh*len corporate & R&D and at least he's trying to push the envelope. I'm gonna also add; you can literally accomplish the same thing with FederalSignal's Convergence platform - but really it's a edging of trading blows of who came out with what first. May I remind the jury of the 20 instances of copying/duplication by Whelen of Federal Signal products in the last 2 decades.
@@nolovefordivision2 That's right because I saw it there first. I've posted this comment here again because TH-cam is a better place for discussions and I can easily share links to my videos where I show and explain various topics in deeper detail if necessary. Judging by 15 years of experience with emergency lights (and sirens) in dozens of states and countries I'm confident to say that Whelen is the best which is why I started programming their systems. No one comes close to the stuff that can be achieved with Core which is why I'm also no longer focusing and spending time on SOS or FedSig systems. Regarding copying in the industry, well Whelen "copied" some FedSig tones and FedSig copied some Whelen lights. Not a big deal to me considering dozens of other international companies that clearly copied Whelen products in the past 20 years and live off of copying and selling cheap garbage lights under wrong promises.
@@Rummeltobi @Rummeltobi Before I get into the rebuttal; better for link sharing? TH-cam almost insta-nukes any link you try and share. Also I've had nothing but trouble with Whelen products; let alone the horrible scobostropic effect. I think Whelen only makes good lights that are plug and play and affordable. That's it. I know people will rebutt that SpeedTech is the current budget option; but - they lay-of-the-land in the current meta is; "I don't want to cheap out for a SpeedTech bar, I'd prefer a Navigator (FS), but all I can afford is a Freedom IV." I don't see any necessary solutions offered by Whelen that address any issues with modern fire apparatus lighting. Perhaps dimming is one; but everyone was coming online to the market with that at the same time; and I'm certain someone else like HiViz or Speedtech beat them to it - and there would've been some corporate gossip among OEMs to bring online light dimming/soft fading (now everyone has their own internal name for it like how they do for deep base sirens (Howler/Rumbler)). I'm going to contradict what I said earlier - and build off what you said about copying. It's not so much who was first; as much as who will eventually do it - and do it the best. I understand the CENCOM CORE argument; but really that's going out the door as you had FS's option, and now CODE3ESG's option online. I truly believe Whelen is all marketing and no real solutions. I mean h*ll bro have you seen a RotaBeam against an SLR in real life? Looks GREAT on camera, terrible in real life. SLRs look TERRIBLE on camera; but are so much better in real life. I understand what you meant originally with "looks great from 10 feet away let's go with this" but I think that's more of a show room impression. As an outfitter yourself I think you would understand that - that in no way could be a realistic situation in the fitting of a lightbar or pattern - I mean emergency services (and adjacent meta) by itself selectively selects for people who wouldn't think in that way. I don't understand what's neccessarily wrong with HiViz's offerings on the software side. They are just catching up. My biggest greviance is their product offerings. Not enough skews/shapes/sizes/lightheads/options/dome tints. I mean there's a reason every rig has HiViz headlights now and not Whelen (inb4 where are Whelen's headlights) ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. Maybe really Whelen only pops off in the European market where they have the biggest brand dominance - especially over Federal Signal - and are more attuned to European tastes, but stateside and even in the land down under where the arena is open - and the demands (of performance by) of lighting is high - Whelen is not the king of throne. Really I'd say Whelen is just the default option VS being the gold standard. I don't even know if you could crown anyone as the gold standard when everyone else does something better than the other person's offering. Really the best rig would be a hodge podge of OEMs - and I think people need to get it out of their heads that everything needs to speak to eachother on the same language or platforms. I'd think some sort of meshing platform would be great; but it's clear there is external OEM pressure to prevent anything like this from happening (see the NFPA thing where they're trying to regulate/mandate how lighting must speak a certain language something something (I can't remember the exact wording they use - but it's SO CLEAR the big 4 are trying to secure their position, have a stake in this, and are trying to strong-arm out the little guys or any future competition by making the startup "cost" larger than it needs to be (of course that's all NFPA - and there's no law mandating you NEED to follow the NFPA - but people defacto treat it as law if you will))). I know the counter argument to hodge-podging will be "convience, control, less confusion" - but we clearly made do before hand with separate controllers and switches in the past - and there are some great rigs with great set ups and sequencing that utilize decentralized controllers. I know an immediate rebutt would be "I don't want switches everywhere" but when was the last time you saw a legacy rig with switches for lighting everywhere? No man would put there everywhere. You literally just set a line of missile locks to be flipped in one go in a straight line. If that's the issue you have an outfitting issue - not a lighting issue. I truly do believe CENCOM CORE has spoiled outfitters in recent years. No one can fathom anymore individual lighting or being creative with multi-OEM lighting setups. In one way they actually have become more creative with the better control and programming CORE and central controller with serial data - esque products have brought - but it's also made outfitters lazy in that; I doubt anyone would be WILLING (keyword: WILLING) to run lines for a rig with CODE3ESG perimeter lights, running a FedSig lightbar, with a Carson siren. (Additional note I'd get into the contemporary issues of fire apparatus lighting (not product wise but conceptually) but I think we're both on the same page here - and this'd turn into like a 300 comment thread - each comment being like 40 paragraphs; so I'm just going to assume we're both on the same page here).
Odds are this concept for lights will filter in to all the major brands due to the mentality of "Dont get left behind". They did it first but someone else will likely do it best sooner or later
other manufacturers have been doing this as a more generic (not fire-truck-specific) system for a few years ago. The side-firing light to illuminate the body are unique (though we'd like to see how they actually work) but being able to do multiple colours and change modes depending on Responding or Blocking modes is nothing new. We do it on F150's and other trucks all the time. Also keep in mind that this is a very manufacturer-specific product from a fairly small company. Are you going to be able to get replacement parts in 5/10/15 years? Remember the American La France 'bubble' lightbars that wrapped around front and sides? Lots of trucks still with them in service but haven't been able to get parts in years.
Love the concept, but they are very dim for any daylight use. Then again, I don’t like any clear lens light for the same reason. Regardless of how bright the LEDs are, the clear lens washes out the brightness during the day. Looking forward if they produce colored lens versions and forgo the multicolor carnival stuff‘. 🤔
With a 10 years of experience in vehicle upfitting and another 10 in firefighting. I can say this is to much. Systems like Whelen Core have it right. Let the system do the thinking and keep firefighters mind on the job. Yes the necessary functions of arrow or sene lighting or a command functions are what crews need to control but they dont need to go into the truck to changes intensity or patterns or colors.
Their scene lights are good, but I think FireTech has a way to go for the warning lights. I mentioned adding a cover to the omen so snow and debris can't get down inbetween the top of the bar, as well as shade to help keep the module heatsyncs cooler in hot summer but they didn't think it was needed. I also agree SoundOffs new polycarb and espeically the mPOWER products standout. Whelen is and always will be a solid lighting choice.
I will also note, the surfacemount warning lights seem to have a lot of wasted space in the housing. The reflector is small and oddly shaped, it's a short linear optic with some weird shovel scoop on the top and bottom.
While the advances in code lighting, especially LED, is just awesome, I think the old days of maybe 6 rocker switches for both warning and scene lighting, was the simplified system we miss. Today, I often see emergency fire rigs responding without key lights that should be activated, or things like the rear amber directional stick (arrow) in the wrong flash pattern. Engineers are very busy and may not have the time to mess with lighting arrays/options.
I have made similar experiences. Some make mistakes with the lighting controls, others are too busy to check the active buttons. Issues like these can be easily addressed with a Whelen Core system, a good controller as well as automated features and proper programming. The question about ease of use is one of the first when I'm programming these systems for a customer.
Another pretty dangerous example that just comes to my mind is drivers who turn on the siren but forget to turn the emergency lights on. This is something I'm suggesting to basically everyone of my customers. When the siren is on (sometimes coupled to a timer like "when the siren is on for more than 5 seconds"), then turn on the emergency lights as well. This fixes human error and for some this makes controls easier and quicker since they just have to turn on the siren.
Well isn't that kinda the point Mr Caffeine just made? Set it up once & just turn it on, then the control zone will turn the lights on/off for the conditions: day/night, running/on-scene. I don't usually like a lot of gadgets on trucks but this system may be quite useful. Besides, we need to use all that state grant money, right?
As someone who specialized on lights & sirens I've gotta say that I'm not a fan of that lightbar/ system. It is something different that's for sure and probably saves some time but would anyone really want to save time when it comes to thinking about the most important safety feature of an emergency vehicle? The patterns shown here for example are mostly missing contrast, resulting in much less warning output.
To me, Whelen Core is the golden standard because I can program an unbelievable amount of functions into that system or just keep it safe, simple and effective. It allows agencies to complete overthink their entire light setup and every single aspect of it; easy controls, patterns for foggy and other bad weather conditions (keyword: being blinded by your own lights), thought through low power patterns at night, automated features and so on. As an independent programmer for these controllable systems I would say that a little extra work definitely pays off for additional safety and comfort for the driver, crew on scene and for other motorists. On the other hand you can save money by thinking about the removal of unnecessary lights.
In the end proper evaluation of the light setup and every pattern will always be the best and safest way to go. The effects of some choices should not be taken lightly. I can already see some people that are using the HiViz system to be like "oh this looks cool from 10ft away so let's just take this pattern".
AYO NAH HOLD UP you commented the same thing on the Instagram bro a'ight now I know this ain't no mistake found the Wh*len shill. Nice try Wh*len but I'm not falling for it. I still think about the insult Wh*len did to Edward Nunn's creation and the bootlegging of Unitrol EVERY MORNING . I don't like HiViz's perimeter light offerings but he sure as h█ll is more approachable than Wh*len corporate & R&D and at least he's trying to push the envelope.
I'm gonna also add; you can literally accomplish the same thing with FederalSignal's Convergence platform - but really it's a edging of trading blows of who came out with what first. May I remind the jury of the 20 instances of copying/duplication by Whelen of Federal Signal products in the last 2 decades.
@@nolovefordivision2 That's right because I saw it there first. I've posted this comment here again because TH-cam is a better place for discussions and I can easily share links to my videos where I show and explain various topics in deeper detail if necessary. Judging by 15 years of experience with emergency lights (and sirens) in dozens of states and countries I'm confident to say that Whelen is the best which is why I started programming their systems. No one comes close to the stuff that can be achieved with Core which is why I'm also no longer focusing and spending time on SOS or FedSig systems.
Regarding copying in the industry, well Whelen "copied" some FedSig tones and FedSig copied some Whelen lights. Not a big deal to me considering dozens of other international companies that clearly copied Whelen products in the past 20 years and live off of copying and selling cheap garbage lights under wrong promises.
@@Rummeltobi @Rummeltobi Before I get into the rebuttal; better for link sharing? TH-cam almost insta-nukes any link you try and share.
Also I've had nothing but trouble with Whelen products; let alone the horrible scobostropic effect. I think Whelen only makes good lights that are plug and play and affordable. That's it. I know people will rebutt that SpeedTech is the current budget option; but - they lay-of-the-land in the current meta is; "I don't want to cheap out for a SpeedTech bar, I'd prefer a Navigator (FS), but all I can afford is a Freedom IV."
I don't see any necessary solutions offered by Whelen that address any issues with modern fire apparatus lighting. Perhaps dimming is one; but everyone was coming online to the market with that at the same time; and I'm certain someone else like HiViz or Speedtech beat them to it - and there would've been some corporate gossip among OEMs to bring online light dimming/soft fading (now everyone has their own internal name for it like how they do for deep base sirens (Howler/Rumbler)).
I'm going to contradict what I said earlier - and build off what you said about copying. It's not so much who was first; as much as who will eventually do it - and do it the best.
I understand the CENCOM CORE argument; but really that's going out the door as you had FS's option, and now CODE3ESG's option online.
I truly believe Whelen is all marketing and no real solutions. I mean h*ll bro have you seen a RotaBeam against an SLR in real life? Looks GREAT on camera, terrible in real life. SLRs look TERRIBLE on camera; but are so much better in real life.
I understand what you meant originally with "looks great from 10 feet away let's go with this" but I think that's more of a show room impression. As an outfitter yourself I think you would understand that - that in no way could be a realistic situation in the fitting of a lightbar or pattern - I mean emergency services (and adjacent meta) by itself selectively selects for people who wouldn't think in that way. I don't understand what's neccessarily wrong with HiViz's offerings on the software side. They are just catching up. My biggest greviance is their product offerings. Not enough skews/shapes/sizes/lightheads/options/dome tints. I mean there's a reason every rig has HiViz headlights now and not Whelen (inb4 where are Whelen's headlights) ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. Maybe really Whelen only pops off in the European market where they have the biggest brand dominance - especially over Federal Signal - and are more attuned to European tastes, but stateside and even in the land down under where the arena is open - and the demands (of performance by) of lighting is high - Whelen is not the king of throne. Really I'd say Whelen is just the default option VS being the gold standard. I don't even know if you could crown anyone as the gold standard when everyone else does something better than the other person's offering.
Really the best rig would be a hodge podge of OEMs - and I think people need to get it out of their heads that everything needs to speak to eachother on the same language or platforms. I'd think some sort of meshing platform would be great; but it's clear there is external OEM pressure to prevent anything like this from happening (see the NFPA thing where they're trying to regulate/mandate how lighting must speak a certain language something something (I can't remember the exact wording they use - but it's SO CLEAR the big 4 are trying to secure their position, have a stake in this, and are trying to strong-arm out the little guys or any future competition by making the startup "cost" larger than it needs to be (of course that's all NFPA - and there's no law mandating you NEED to follow the NFPA - but people defacto treat it as law if you will))).
I know the counter argument to hodge-podging will be "convience, control, less confusion" - but we clearly made do before hand with separate controllers and switches in the past - and there are some great rigs with great set ups and sequencing that utilize decentralized controllers. I know an immediate rebutt would be "I don't want switches everywhere" but when was the last time you saw a legacy rig with switches for lighting everywhere? No man would put there everywhere. You literally just set a line of missile locks to be flipped in one go in a straight line. If that's the issue you have an outfitting issue - not a lighting issue.
I truly do believe CENCOM CORE has spoiled outfitters in recent years. No one can fathom anymore individual lighting or being creative with multi-OEM lighting setups. In one way they actually have become more creative with the better control and programming CORE and central controller with serial data - esque products have brought - but it's also made outfitters lazy in that; I doubt anyone would be WILLING (keyword: WILLING) to run lines for a rig with CODE3ESG perimeter lights, running a FedSig lightbar, with a Carson siren.
(Additional note I'd get into the contemporary issues of fire apparatus lighting (not product wise but conceptually) but I think we're both on the same page here - and this'd turn into like a 300 comment thread - each comment being like 40 paragraphs; so I'm just going to assume we're both on the same page here).
Interesting, but we didn’t get to see the back of the truck.
Odds are this concept for lights will filter in to all the major brands due to the mentality of "Dont get left behind". They did it first but someone else will likely do it best sooner or later
They didn’t do those lights first. Hi-Viz did and other manufactures have already been using them. The bar and the lights have been out for years now.
other manufacturers have been doing this as a more generic (not fire-truck-specific) system for a few years ago. The side-firing light to illuminate the body are unique (though we'd like to see how they actually work) but being able to do multiple colours and change modes depending on Responding or Blocking modes is nothing new. We do it on F150's and other trucks all the time.
Also keep in mind that this is a very manufacturer-specific product from a fairly small company. Are you going to be able to get replacement parts in 5/10/15 years? Remember the American La France 'bubble' lightbars that wrapped around front and sides? Lots of trucks still with them in service but haven't been able to get parts in years.
Love the concept, but they are very dim for any daylight use. Then again, I don’t like any clear lens light for the same reason. Regardless of how bright the LEDs are, the clear lens washes out the brightness during the day. Looking forward if they produce colored lens versions and forgo the multicolor carnival stuff‘. 🤔
With a 10 years of experience in vehicle upfitting and another 10 in firefighting. I can say this is to much. Systems like Whelen Core have it right. Let the system do the thinking and keep firefighters mind on the job.
Yes the necessary functions of arrow or sene lighting or a command functions are what crews need to control but they dont need to go into the truck to changes intensity or patterns or colors.
This guy sounds like a RONCO TV Salesman! He should be saying "But WAIT, there's more!!!"
It's a good concept, but i don't see this being used by everyone in the long term.
not a fan of their products at all, cool ideas but just not a fan. sticking with soundoff and whelen.
Their scene lights are good, but I think FireTech has a way to go for the warning lights. I mentioned adding a cover to the omen so snow and debris can't get down inbetween the top of the bar, as well as shade to help keep the module heatsyncs cooler in hot summer but they didn't think it was needed. I also agree SoundOffs new polycarb and espeically the mPOWER products standout. Whelen is and always will be a solid lighting choice.
I will also note, the surfacemount warning lights seem to have a lot of wasted space in the housing. The reflector is small and oddly shaped, it's a short linear optic with some weird shovel scoop on the top and bottom.
No thanks