"Do I have an underdeveloped sense of self?" ep.195
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ต.ค. 2024
- This week licensed therapist Kati Morton discusses what it means to have an underdeveloped sense of self, why we can't stop crying when we are struggling with suicidal thoughts, and why certain diagnoses can can frequently co occur together. Kati also discusses TBI’s and other head injuries and the effects that can have on our mental health. She then talks about being a mental health professional and having our own issues, and why therapists leave room for silence in sessions.
Audience questions for Ask Kati Anything ep.195
1. I often see “an underdeveloped sense of self” on symptom lists for mental illnesses, but I’ve never really seen a comprehensive description of what a fully developed sense of self looks like. How do you recognize when someone’s sense of self is underdeveloped? Does sense of self always develop in the same way, or are there different facets of it that can be delayed like with executive functioning?
2. I am struggling with constant suicidal ideation and when I talk about it to my therapist or psychiatrist, I don’t cry when I say the hard stuff and I’m afraid it is painting the narrative that I am lying about it. But the truth is that in the past whenever I would cry, I wouldn’t get help. Also with this being constant for over 2 years, my therapist is expressing that she is beginning to feel helpless which makes me feel so bad and like a burden. What are your thoughts?
3. I was wondering if you could explain why certain diagnoses can commonly be coexisting. Like why is having an ED and ocd seen together often? I'm in the trenches right now with both and GAD, and they feed into each-other and are so tightly intertwined, that even the idea of sorting them out is exhausting. At this point it feels like the "what came first, the chicken or the egg?" question and I find myself just going through the cycle of trying to attach the behavior to the correct diagnosis, getting frustrated because there is so much overlap, and then shutting down. And as much as I know life would be so much easier without either of them, these thought cycles are persuading me away from that and make life feel easier with them than to get rid of them. How do you as a therapist pick what needs to be targeted first (contamination ocd vs ED) when it feels like the treatment for one will just cause the other to get worse?
4. I suffered a head injury about 6 months ago and have struggled with feeling depressed adjusting to my new way of life (not ‘smart’ anymore, can’t work full time, not able to participate in hobbies etc). For context I had anxiety before the injury and was apparently struggling a lot with this (I can’t remember the last couple of years). I’m struggling feeling anxious about being ‘stuck’ like this forever. I’m UK based and am receiving basic CBT and am on a long waiting list for high intensity CBT - could you explain a bit what this is please? Can just CBT help process a trauma like this? Should I try and seek a more talk based therapy to process some of the depression/trauma? Thanks for all you do.
5. Right now I'm in my internship of counseling. I feel like I'm a fake and a failure. I personally struggle with anxiety and what I believe is ptsd. But my therapist recently changed it so it's not ptsd. I struggle with my parents divorce and dealing with a lot of emotions and anger towards my dad. Currently all of my clients that I'm getting are all struggling with similar issues and with their fathers. It's getting to be so much. I struggle to be able to talk about it during sessions with my personal counselor and I don't want to turn away all of these clients. What suggestions do you have to help!
6. Hi Kati, I have a new therapist. Been seeing her for almost two months. During our session I talk about something and when I'm done she just sits there in silence looking at me. It drives me crazy. I told her this and she didn't give me an explanation as to why she does this. Is this a therapist tactic? Is she looking for me to do something? Your help on this would be greatly appreciated.
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I would definitely want a video for helicopter parents. I always feel like I don’t have a right to feel like I do because my parents were always there.
9:00 When you help a small animal that's in distress- like cut a bird loose from a net or something- there's often a moment where it goes limp and stops resisting. Someone always says "Look, it knows you're trying to help it." In fact, I've read that this is a kind of shock, an acceptance of something being outside of your control. It makes it easier on the predator and the prey. Kind of like pulling that rip cord, right? It sounds a lot like our own responses to stress- numbness and disassociation. We just go limp and lose the fight sometimes.
My family claimed I’m 1) too sensitive 2) over-think things. If you make this claim of someone, how do you NOT think: 1) I’m insensitive 2) I don’t think at all?
I got told the same thing not only at home but also at one job I had…
That “you think too much” line always comes at me in a work context when I’ll be like “hey boss, I actually just happened to read the ACTUAL law pertaining to one of our business practices and we’re actually not doing it entirely legally/by the book, just thought I should mention that.”
“You worry too much”
6 months later
“Those bastards fined me!?!? What???! How?!?”
Exactly! I got told the same things.
My underdeveloped sense of self is being held to high expectations without any growth to reach those high expectations. It was just expected I make the best choice every time or I was shamed and pressured, not enough. Survival mode.
I would LOVE a video about helicopter parents. I feel like there's a lot of overlap there with what I've learned about emotionally immature parents (both of which seem to undermine the development of trust in self, protection of self, ability to listen to intuition and make decisions in situations)
I second this
My dad is the opposite: he can barely be bothered!
Timestamps!
Q1 - 0:46
Q2 - 8:07
Q3 - 19:25
Q4 - 31:31
Q5 - 40:16
Q6 - 44:35
Did not get an alert for this but so happy to see you have uploaded the aka episode for today! Thank you for this podcast!
I didn’t get an alert as well
This is so helpful Kati! Thank you! I have DID and have often wondered if my sense of self was damaged or something. With your description, I can see how I've developed a VERY healthy sense of self since having trauma therapy and implementing what I've learned. I'm definitely also having an identity crisis after having a brain infection, going septic, and almost dying. The way I view the world, my place in it, and my core beliefs and spirituality are completely different now than before. I struggle with how different I am now and with whether or not it's okay to be different now.
I definitely have an underdeveloped send of self. My mom made up fake rules that she made me believe we're real rules of government society...like that I wasn't allowed to talk to anyone outside the family without her permission and without her being involved in the conversation, I was only allowed to be out of the house for school and no other reason, never allowed to go anywhere or do anything on my own, only allowed to leave the house with her. And if i was out in public with her she would never physically take her eyes off me and if she lost sight of me for a second she would freak out and start screaming and frantically looking for me and calling for me and telling everyone around that I must have been kidnapped cuz she can no longer see me....even when it was nothing at all like she turned her head to look at something in the store and suddenly she couldn't see me behind her and so she stared to panic. She would constantly tell me that I'm never allowed to leave with her and her permission because the outside world is filled with people who will murder, rape, and kidnap me and that I had to stay in the house in my room with her so that she knew where I was and that I was safe and whenever I asked why she asked like this I got told "I'm the adult, you are the child which means I tell you what to do and you do it, not the other way around" "because I said so" "the answer is no, your never leaving this house so stop asking, end of discussion, I don't wanna hear any more of this now stop". I wasn't allowed to make or have friends cuz she didn't allow me to talk to people. And whenever I asked if I could make a friend at school she wanted to know the name, who they are, where they live, the parents names, what they did for work, where they work, how they raised their kids, how they disaplin their kids, what they feed there kids, how they let there kids dress, whated to go to the school to meet the kid, wanted to go see where they live and meet the parents at their house, would want to sit and question the parents for hours and get tons of information on them like she the the damn FBI or something and then she would determine if I was allowed to be friends with the kid or not....so I just never showed any interest in wanting friends cuz I knew noone would want to be my friend when they found out how ridiculously crazy my mom was. She made all my decisions for me, I was never allowed to think for myself I always had to have the same thoughts and opinions as her and if I didn't blindly do what she said or agreed with her on everything she would get very angry and emotional abusive and neglectful of me. I can't work anymore due to the mental stress I'm in, I had to quit my job months ago cuz I just can't function as an adult anymore. I need the answers from my parents as to why they did what they did, why adopt me if you were just gonna treat me like that, why adopt me if you knew you had tons of medical problems and wouldn't be able to give the child the love and attention and support they needed, why would my dad die first and leave me with her for another 10 years, why wasn't I allowed to talk to others and make friends, why was I always locked up in the house and not allowed to leave....I NEED theses answers from them, but I never will cuz they are dead and I dont know how to let go for the questions. My past is constantly haunting me preventing me from living my life and creating a positive future for myself. Sometimes I honestly just want to end it all. I feel like I wasn't even supposed to be born. I just want all this pain to stop
I’m so sorry that you have had this experience Alice. I hope that you can soon find someone to help you understand the possible answers to your questions and with those some relief from the trauma.
I send you love and best wishes for a better future supported by a good therapist perhaps, where you can begin to recover from the pain. You write well - maybe you could use your experiences to help others if you wanted..
Hang in there and reach out for support. You are an incredible person and have a much brighter future ahead of you. There is a free Tony Robbins event in 2 weeks you could google that could give you some tools and perspectives to help you define & create it so that you are in control. I think its called ‘Time to Rise’ or similar. Please know that you matter very much. All the best ❤
I have no clue if my message will reach you, but your message has reached me. Reading your story, my first impression would be that your adoptive mother was scared shitless about the things she knew about the scary real world. Where a normal person would take danger with a grain of salt and not let it get to your head, your mom was totally obsessed with her fear and with the dangers in the world. So much afraid and so scared of the real world, that the only way she could possibly think of saving her child from all this insane danger, was to be insanely controlling to keep him safe. So... I'd say... the reason why your mother treated you like this was because she had a mental condition that made her intensely fearful of things that normal people would not consider to be that dangerous at all, like, kidnapping. It's not a 'real' danger for most people. But in your mom's mind you could've been kidnapped every moment of the day... and she acted accordingly. She must have had a severe panic/fear disorder. And sadly you were the one that was on the receiving end of that.
I don't know if you read this message but I commend your level of self-reflection and I can see you will at some point understand what has happened. Your mother's behavior had nothing to do with you, with who you are as a person, it had to do with who she was and how afraid she must have been all the time.
I hope to hear from you someday, any day. Because I also have an underdeveloped sense of self so I bet we have some things we could share xD
So sorry to hear of your experiences, I would recommend you read the memoir Educated by Tara Westover as there are some similarities in the experiences you described. Her story is very inspirational for anyone.
I saw a saying on a sweatshirt that said “remember who the f*** you are”. I answered to myself, “I have no idea.” I don’t have hardly any memories of me being me.
I totally wanna know more but … I’m in an isolation kick 😮
I have remembered that I was told if I was upset I got told that if I didn't stop crying I would be given something to cry for I get really upset as an adult and feel like I'm that lonely scared kid
I heard that, along with the threat of the belt if I didn't stop crying!
Underdeveloped/developed or healthy/unhealthy, secure/insecure sense of self sounds like attachment theory to me.
The medication piece is so important. I'm glad you talk about it. I had NO IDEA that I was struggling so much. It wasn't until my therapist just straight up said that I wasn't progressing and it had been nearly a year of therapy that I decided to try. OMG!!!!!! What a change internally. Thank you Kati for all that you do for us.
As a therapist, I love these videos so much! I was listening to one of these when I was falling asleep, and dreamt that you and I were having a conversation in a coffee shop. Thank you for all you do Katie, you are so much appreciated ❤
This is so spot on.
I was diagnosed with CPTSD and PTSD, an anxiety disorder as well as Identity dysmorphia and Body Dysmorphia and I disassociate a lot. All of that is from the trauma and abuse as a child, teenager and young adult.
I have been in extensive therapy for two years trying to heal and recover. I have been able to make wonderful progress and am starting to see the light.
Thank you for your content it truly helps!💜
2# me to a T. My future intent I keep to myself but open with everything else mostly. Trying to give these meds a fare try. I hope everyone else gets the help they truly need. It's hard to live with.
People with adhd need stimulants, by and large 🤷🏻♀️. The stigma on this is killing me. CBT would do nothing for me without the stimulants. We know how to do thing - we just can’t do them.
I feel "less" compared to the narcisssist's inflated sense of him(Dad)self! When I have complained, Dad would blame me. He never takes responsibility. I always feel "less than" just because I am female(Dad hates women) and at the time(I was 5), he taught me to blindly obey; never confront him. It was horrible. I am 60 now. I deserve a much better father. It isn't me that is at fault, only him!
I gained resilience from walking dogs, connecting with people, regular psychology sessions, having a mentor visit and prayer. Also putting up boundaries and disconnecting from family members that caused or were involved with the trauma as well. These have all caused me to refind my confidence. I do not disassociate anymore. I know how to keep myself safe. I agree with being ready for therapy. I had to watch a lot of movies or series as I couldn't stay present for too long. It was too painful. I wouldn't suggest therapy until some resilience is built because it can be too traumatic, until ready.
suicidal ideation and depression become part of your personality after years and years. It is more than a habit; it is identity after tune. You train yourself to dissociate in order to live. Then when you want emotions they are out of practice or out of reach.
Kati you always seem to make videos talking about exactly what I'm struggling with, I cant tell you how helpful this was for me. As someone who has struggled with all of the things mentioned with lack of sense of self most my life. And not having heard anyone talk about this before. Thank you for this ❤
Thanks Kati for answering my question. I’ve seen multiple neurologists and am on a three year waiting list for a TBI clinic (sadly we don’t have them privately over here). Super validating to hear other people have ‘lost’ themselves from TBIs ❤
lets gage my stress...wife was hitting me so i left...filed for divorce, retired,and i am selling my home...ie I'm alone for the first time in 40 years. But AT LEAST I'm not being abused daily anymore.
I really appreciate your explanation and examples of Underdeveloped sense of self. thank you for that!
I also would definitely look forward to content from you on "helicopter parenting"
The problem I have is at first I can be the best friend and share and be supportive. But iI feel like I'm trying to maintain a facade and then it's like an elastic band pulls me back as I start to doubt myself, and the fear of making a mistake and causing offence make me disconnect. I know it cause confusion in the other person and they wonder why I don't talk to them anymore but this just fuels my negative beliefs about myself. I
OMG YAAAASSSSS!!! Please do a helicopter parents maybe w/a dash of emeshed mother daughter mess due to childhood illness and codependency just allowed to run rampant until emeshment was inevitable. Helicopter parents rob their child from the ability and know how to adult...for me anyways. Thanks for all your videos and amazing insights 😊!!
44:13 hmmm after a catastrophic event with years of abuse leading to it and the last time I suffered such a loss without the prolonged abuse, my therapist who saw me through (literally in retrospect) in the abuse and then the loss which the last time it happened (though no significant abuse prior) I was suicidal. my therapist casually mentioned going on leave for months after a pause where she didn’t say anything else I inquired about if there’s somebody covering that, I could see you and she said “oh, I’m available as needed and typically the patient therapy once I’m back” I was floored because I’m not sure how she reckoned a single person sucked into an abusive situation and having lost family and social connections and the recent devastating loss of a dream made reality was not in need of support. She found a colleague who I mentioned I felt the other therapist didn’t attune and looked forward to what someone else could offer in helping me grieve so I can move forward and that talk therapy was incredibly helpful. At the third visit she seemed a lil annoyed and said she was under the impression she was as needed (which didn’t make sense as the primary said she was as needed) and advised that i wait til my established therapist was back from leave to discuss my thoughts of changing therapists and she wasn’t able to help me. I literally asked for nothing more than to help with the grieving process and to be a professional ear to listen. I had already hit rock bottom of dehumanized and undignified with group narcissistic abuse and then a psychiatrist with training in psychoanalysis wasn’t able to help me grieve. Well things just went downhill from there as you can imagine. Unfortunately I’d say not everyone deserves space, or at least I don’t even if paying the person. Dw I trashed the sad violin the cognitive distortions are unfortunately my reality
I have BPD and my issues with identity are the masks I put on. When I’m around someone I know how to act and who they expect me to be. When I’m alone I’m empty and I don’t know who to act like or what mask to put on.
Recently here in Australia, someone was convicted of murder and neurologists attributed this to repeated concussions on the football field. The incident was a shock to everyone. Concussions in sport have become a huge issue here.
Thank you Kati for all you do here, I find our chats very therapeutic to listen to when I am struggling ❤
Merry Christmas ❤
PLEASE Talk about helicopter parents!!!!
Great video. What's the difference between sense of self and the Ego? And is poor sense of self a facet of autism?
So strange. This video doesn't show up on my subscriptions tab. I can only see it on home.
OMG! I finally took the plunge and started seeing a therapist and the silence, in session, is killing me. Wish I had the answers to such easy questions. 🤪
I can relate to this topic. Or all these subjects, rather. I had run into this issue with needing to be alone to connect to my needs and wants. And being tuned into others a lot to find out what I like.
Thank you so much for taking about understanding your sense of self.
I come from a toxic and psychologically abusive relationship with my father, I was homeless with him for a very long time, I escaped that and went to go be with extended family that found me on the internet, but what seemed like a gift from god just turned into something that completely hurt me, I was only with them for 3 months because of how difficult they were to live with, and how conditional their love and regard was towards me, it’s just bloody unfair to me how my brother got to have what they called a “privileged life” while I was stuck with my narcissistic father and had a really shitty upbringing that no kid should ever have to have gone through. It’s bullshit. Yet, people on the internet and even one of my friends invalidates me and tells me “why should they love you” and “oh it’s because they raised your brother and not you why do you think you deserve everything your brother always gotten.” …😔
38:13 I feel like DA might be domestic ab*se and if this is the case I’m so sorry that you’re experiencing this 😢
I also would love if you were able to do a video on the helicopter parenting. I had well both of mine be just that but more so my dad who also was very emotionally abusive and even physically abusive. Now I understand part of why my parents were helicopter parents it's because I have a birth defect I have spina bifida and so there are things that I was not able to do especially as a young child that I am able to do of course now as a close enough to say 43 year old adult. But between that and then the emotional abuse that I got from the one parent and then neglect of actually addressing it from the other I have an extreme underdeveloped sense of myself.
Also if I may suggest I would love if you and other clinicians out there would do some videos on on some of the emotional struggles that people in the disabled community have to deal with on a regular basis because of our disabilities and limitations that it can cause but also to me even more importantly how General society behaves and interacts with us and how it contributes to the positive or the negative for us as disabled
Oh damn that helicopter thingy is exactly my case. I spent few years to study abroad and now I kind of had to go back to mom's and it's the over control of literally everything that's killing me. My mom decided how my sister should live her married life until she got kicked out of her in laws while she was pregnant. When my sister came back home she didn't even have the right to choose her own baby's name.
Anyways, I'd love to have a video on that helicopter thing and what are the steps to take once it's too late and we're already "adults " and we've had our lives stolen from us. Thanks
I was in bad suicidal state And I lost everything In my life My job my car and my dog and best friend I lost All of that I'd just got a job Took me 11 months And I couldn't pay My medicine Or therapy So I stopped everything And I actually got better Not having a job I was a lot happier I am afraid Since I got a job I finished my third day today I will go backwards Into my eating disorder Very heavy anxiety And very bad depression be suicidal all the time again I am afraid it's going to happen In the last three years I've been in the hospital three times Two times for trying to do suicide And my eating disorder That I could have died How do I not get back into that Because Cause I already feel it happened Especially with the voices with my eating disorder Thank you And have a good day
Hey Kati. I have a friend who just had a minor surgery a few days ago. She's also dealing with a husband who has a lot of health issues. I have offered to help clean her house or just run errands for her. But she doesn't accept my help. Why does she feel this way? Thank you for your time. Love your videos.
had 4 brain tumors and epilepsy yet somehow came out semi normal, had helicopter parents that followed me everywhere and almost had different rules for me.
Hi. KATIE, DID YOU SAY THAT ANGZIETY IS A coping skill ! Just making sure..😊
When you were describing helicopter parents i suddenly realized that you were describing my parents! I would definitely like to learn more about this.
Awesome explanation of underdeveloped sense of self! And some of the reasons why it can happen. 👏
Helicopter parenting 👍
I really appreciate your material. Thank you for helping us better understand all things mental health.
Dad(narcissist/abuser) would blame and shame me. He lies!
KATIE U HELP ME SO MUCH
6:17 yes please! a video about helicopter parents would be so amazing🫶
WE LOVE U KATI X
Yes pleaaaase!! Video about helicopter life!!
Yeah. Do a video on helicopter parents. 😊
Will you be my therapist?
Thank you for what you do! ❤
That's EXACTLY what I did in the beginning of my 8 year relationship. She cried (fake I think now) when I broke up with her because my friend told me to break up in person, I just wanted to be done with her over text. So I did what he said and things did not go according to plan, not entirely his fault obviously but still don't get swindled by anyone be firm.
Thank you so much!❤
Superb episode!
None of us can ever know the limitations or potential of another.
I "enjoy" your videos and the sense of the naked you that they present. That honesty is refreshing and, I think, makes it easy to listen to you.
Tasks?
I misheard you; I thought you said "butt" instead of "gut." It was funny!
HI MRS KATI
IM NOT HERE FOR ME
I know who I am
But I’m not a fan of
ABC GREAT SONG- LOOK OF LOVE
MERRY CHRISTMAS X
LEAVE A LIGHT ON KATI
ITS CALLED SOMETHING
S
ITS NOT EASY TALKING TO MILLIONS AT ONCE
U AS THE PERSON WILL ONLY KNOW ITS YOU IM TALKING TO AT ANY ONE TIME
IM NOT JUST TALKING TO A HANDFUL OF PEOPLE
FEEL THE REPLY
MY HANDS BELONG TO S WHOS STILL SPINNING
HURRY UP IM GETTING DIZZY