The same-sex couple ‘blessing’ causes a number of questions. What is a homosexual couple seeking by asking for a blessing? What is the Church offering in response? What is the Holy Spirit called for and what is exactly being blessed? What is a spiritual purpose of such a ‘blessing’ and what sort of a particular help it intends to provide? Love and acceptance can make miracles of soul transformation, and Pope Francis' vision on the same-sex unions seems to be about love and acceptance. Yet, the same-sex couple blessing would make sense if the Church dumps viewing the same-sex relationship per ser as a sin. Without that, such a 'blessing' appears conflicting and self-contradictory. The entire issue of the homosexuality as such and the sin does not look straightforward at all. For example, some people refer to Leviticus 20:13: "If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them". Does this mean that about 4% of human population should be now "put to death"? Would it be a proclaimed Christian way of love and acceptance? Would it be compatible with the words of our Lord: "Let He Who Is Without Sin Cast the First Stone" (John 8:7)? Apostle Paul in 1 Cor 6:9,10 was talking specifically about "men who have sex with men" with the intention to just satisfy their lust, but said nothing about homosexuality as such. The Holy Scripture condemns sexual lust in all its appearances - ‘traditional’ and ‘pervert’, but says nothing at all specifically about homosexuality and same sex people, who want to live together in love and faith. Nevertheless, this unlikely defends the incompatibility of the same-sex couple blessing with the current Church doctrines and policies. Faithfully yours, bishop Vincent Berg.
Thank you for the comment. I believe we addressed the questions in the video, though maybe there's a language challenge (I'm not sure). But in a a nutshell, blessings are always centered on God, whether towards Him or from Him. Same sex relationships remain and are strongly described in the document as sin that cannot be blessed, and that no mode of blessing should ever cause confusion (i.e. if not possible, then prudence dictates not doing it). The hope of the blessing is to give them the grace to eventually break free from this sin, or be able to live a chaste life, whether by inspiring them to separate, or if for whatever reason, separating (logistically) is not yet an option. The document only tells us that whatever state they may be, we welcome them AND call them to a life towards God, just as Jesus dined with sinners and called them to repentance. Why dispense it to couples? The document doesn't prevent the option to bless individually, but blessing them as a couple also puts into the picture that they are also accountable to each other--that this relationship should be oriented towards God instead of sin.
@@thenoisysheep You mention 2 things up fron: (1) "...we addressed the questions..." (2) "....maybe there's a language challenge..." The second is offered as a soft explanation of why it may appear to the reader that the questions (by @vincentberg1069) are NOT covered in the video. The language challenge is there in the video no doubt but it is insignificant.... Insignificant compared to the language challenge in the document in question viz. Fiducia supplicans. This particular document has been defended tooth and nail all over the web and especially on TH-cam by good faithful Roman Catholic channels (Fr. Mark Goring to name just one). But despite all - ALL! - those defenses and explanations and justifications and clarifications - even by the author of the document himself - the matter remains as it is: the document reeks of bad faith by the authoring institution, viz. the Dicastery of the Doctrine of the Faith. If as you say (and almost every defender of the document says) it changes nothing then what the heck triggered this document? You say (as do all the defenders) that this document was aimed at the German bishops synod, to prevent them from blessing homosexual activity. OK, then address this document TO the German episcopal synod and - in no uncertain terms - tell them exactly what the Pope's directive to THEM is. A secondary directive can then be issued saying that the regional conferences warning them against following the aberrant German synod. Blessings? Pastoral blessings? When has priest ever needed papal direction to give a blessing to anyone who asks for such a blessing. The giving of blessings is NOT the issue. Presenting it as the main issue (as you have done) is deliberate obfuscation. And obfuscation in any form by any author is an act of duplicity, an act of deception. The main issue facing the Church today is HOMOSEXUALITY, period. Homosexuality is rife and rampant amongst the clergy and often - but not always - leads to homosexual pedophilia. THIS MUST BE TARGETED. Fiducia supplicans is a Trojan horse. HC-JAIPUR (20/01/2024) .
When i said languagr challenges, i meant as relating us speaking in Filipino. I still maintain the questions have been discussed, and i only ask that whatever anyone's position is, we clarify without breaking unity. God bless! And yes, we agree that homosexuality is a sin and is a problem. I believe even the document explicitly states it. The difference probably is how we see the solution. From the three of us, we don't believe we can achieve it by alienation, but rather putting ourselves in a position that allows us to tell it to them in a way that they can trust us when we tell them this truth.
@@thenoisysheepThumbs up from India for responding to my comment. So, the rampant homosexuality in the clergy, the laity, and society is too severe in sinfulness to be addressed ALMOST as a by-the-way mention in a lengthy document. You say "explicitly stated". Yes, but where's the emphasis that such couples must cease and desist? Is there no Confession available to these persons? Repent, repent and sin no more - that's the best blessing a priest can give to any one of us sinners. Stop soft-soaping sinfulness. The secular world doesn't need our assistance when it comes to encouraging sinfulness and wickedness. HC-JAIPUR
@hiltonchapman4844 i can see from your reply that you sincerely love the Church and its people. I appreciate that. regarding your comments, that is what i see in the document, and discussed in the video -- i.e. sin is sin, and a blessing to give them grace to turn away from this life is what is called. that is why even those from the lgbt community hate the document.
I am sad to see the document made you lose the spirit of gentleness and meekness. I pray that however you see the document, you will continue to be transformed towards Christ.
The same-sex couple ‘blessing’ causes a number of questions.
What is a homosexual couple seeking by asking for a blessing?
What is the Church offering in response?
What is the Holy Spirit called for and what is exactly being blessed?
What is a spiritual purpose of such a ‘blessing’ and what sort of a particular help it intends to provide?
Love and acceptance can make miracles of soul transformation, and Pope Francis' vision on the same-sex unions seems to be about love and acceptance. Yet, the same-sex couple blessing would make sense if the Church dumps viewing the same-sex relationship per ser as a sin. Without that, such a 'blessing' appears conflicting and self-contradictory.
The entire issue of the homosexuality as such and the sin does not look straightforward at all.
For example, some people refer to Leviticus 20:13: "If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them". Does this mean that about 4% of human population should be now "put to death"? Would it be a proclaimed Christian way of love and acceptance? Would it be compatible with the words of our Lord: "Let He Who Is Without Sin Cast the First Stone" (John 8:7)?
Apostle Paul in 1 Cor 6:9,10 was talking specifically about "men who have sex with men" with the intention to just satisfy their lust, but said nothing about homosexuality as such.
The Holy Scripture condemns sexual lust in all its appearances - ‘traditional’ and ‘pervert’, but says nothing at all specifically about homosexuality and same sex people, who want to live together in love and faith.
Nevertheless, this unlikely defends the incompatibility of the same-sex couple blessing with the current Church doctrines and policies.
Faithfully yours,
bishop Vincent Berg.
Thank you for the comment. I believe we addressed the questions in the video, though maybe there's a language challenge (I'm not sure). But in a a nutshell, blessings are always centered on God, whether towards Him or from Him. Same sex relationships remain and are strongly described in the document as sin that cannot be blessed, and that no mode of blessing should ever cause confusion (i.e. if not possible, then prudence dictates not doing it). The hope of the blessing is to give them the grace to eventually break free from this sin, or be able to live a chaste life, whether by inspiring them to separate, or if for whatever reason, separating (logistically) is not yet an option. The document only tells us that whatever state they may be, we welcome them AND call them to a life towards God, just as Jesus dined with sinners and called them to repentance. Why dispense it to couples? The document doesn't prevent the option to bless individually, but blessing them as a couple also puts into the picture that they are also accountable to each other--that this relationship should be oriented towards God instead of sin.
@@thenoisysheep You mention 2 things up fron:
(1) "...we addressed the questions..."
(2) "....maybe there's a language challenge..."
The second is offered as a soft explanation of why it may appear to the reader that the questions (by @vincentberg1069) are NOT covered in the video.
The language challenge is there in the video no doubt but it is insignificant....
Insignificant compared to the language challenge in the document in question viz. Fiducia supplicans.
This particular document has been defended tooth and nail all over the web and especially on TH-cam by good faithful Roman Catholic channels (Fr. Mark Goring to name just one).
But despite all - ALL! - those defenses and explanations and justifications and clarifications - even by the author of the document himself - the matter remains as it is: the document reeks of bad faith by the authoring institution, viz. the Dicastery of the Doctrine of the Faith.
If as you say (and almost every defender of the document says) it changes nothing then what the heck triggered this document?
You say (as do all the defenders) that this document was aimed at the German bishops synod, to prevent them from blessing homosexual activity. OK, then address this document TO the German episcopal synod and - in no uncertain terms - tell them exactly what the Pope's directive to THEM is. A secondary directive can then be issued saying that the regional conferences warning them against following the aberrant German synod.
Blessings? Pastoral blessings? When has priest ever needed papal direction to give a blessing to anyone who asks for such a blessing. The giving of blessings is NOT the issue. Presenting it as the main issue (as you have done) is deliberate obfuscation. And obfuscation in any form by any author is an act of duplicity, an act of deception.
The main issue facing the Church today is HOMOSEXUALITY, period. Homosexuality is rife and rampant amongst the clergy and often - but not always - leads to homosexual pedophilia. THIS MUST BE TARGETED.
Fiducia supplicans is a Trojan horse.
HC-JAIPUR (20/01/2024)
.
When i said languagr challenges, i meant as relating us speaking in Filipino. I still maintain the questions have been discussed, and i only ask that whatever anyone's position is, we clarify without breaking unity. God bless!
And yes, we agree that homosexuality is a sin and is a problem. I believe even the document explicitly states it. The difference probably is how we see the solution. From the three of us, we don't believe we can achieve it by alienation, but rather putting ourselves in a position that allows us to tell it to them in a way that they can trust us when we tell them this truth.
@@thenoisysheepThumbs up from India for responding to my comment.
So, the rampant homosexuality in the clergy, the laity, and society is too severe in sinfulness to be addressed ALMOST as a by-the-way mention in a lengthy document.
You say "explicitly stated". Yes, but where's the emphasis that such couples must cease and desist? Is there no Confession available to these persons?
Repent, repent and sin no more - that's the best blessing a priest can give to any one of us sinners.
Stop soft-soaping sinfulness.
The secular world doesn't need our assistance when it comes to encouraging sinfulness and wickedness.
HC-JAIPUR
@hiltonchapman4844 i can see from your reply that you sincerely love the Church and its people. I appreciate that. regarding your comments, that is what i see in the document, and discussed in the video -- i.e. sin is sin, and a blessing to give them grace to turn away from this life is what is called. that is why even those from the lgbt community hate the document.
Print it out. It makes good toilet paper.
I am sad to see the document made you lose the spirit of gentleness and meekness. I pray that however you see the document, you will continue to be transformed towards Christ.