I Crashed My Railroad Pump Car
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ส.ค. 2024
- The DIY pump car is still having some issues, this was supposed to be a test before taking it on a longer trip, but the test revealed more work to be done! We also got hassled by a nosy neighbor who didn't like rail vehicles using railroad tracks!
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Here are a few tips from a railroad engineer (no, I'm not the kind of engineer that toots the horn at crossings): railroad wheels derail when the L/V ratio is high (around 0.8 to 1.0 or more). L=lateral force that the wheel is exerting on the track; V=vertical force the wheel is exerting on the track. Looks like you are using polymer wheels with a 90-deg flange angle and zero or low conicity. That means very high friction between the wheel and rail, and very high likelihood of flange-climb. To avoid derailing you need to lower the L/V ratio. You can raise V by adding weight to your cart. Weight is your friend. You can lower L by lubricating your wheels. Try soapy water (I'd avoid using oil or grease on that polymer). You can try conical wheels with a flange angle of around 60 to 70-deg. Or, you could go back and try it on a wet, rainy day. I'll bet you won't detail on wet rails. Google the Nadal equation to see how this stuff works. Have fun!
Guy on the train is called the Conductor. Lots of it is automated now as you know. So computer goes toot toot. They just mostly ride along to monitor for issue and take over operations if needs-be. My dad worked for the NS Railroad for 43 years at the yard in New Haven, Indiana. Something like 8th generation. My brothers and I are the only ones not work for the railroad. Know too much about them. Have family that sit on the Carmen board and RRB. SERIOUSLY, be careful of their b.s. lie retirement plan. They left my mom with poverty income after my dad died. She gets like $25,000/yr out of $1.9 million. My dad barely got to collect before he died because of the chemicals and weather he was exposed to during his service. You be sure to watch your health around all that dangerous stuff you guys work around all the time. Best to you. I know how hard you guys work.
Yeah,,um, what he said. I was thinking the same thing. Sure. 😂
From what I understand, you're correct, but in this particular case there may be another solution:
On a full-size train, high L/V would generally cause flange climb or rail rollover. Since this is a light vehicle and likely isn't moving the rails, we can rule out rail rollover. I don't see the flange climbing onto the high rail, so we can rule out flange climb. The next thing to look at would be existing wide gauge or a wheelset issue. Looking closely at 6:15, you can see the leading left wheel is ready to climb, but before it can it actually bends downwards and allows the right wheel to drop into the gauge. High L/V still contributes, but stiffer axles may be the first step - the bending wheels may be reversing the conicity and actually increasing L, which bends the wheel down more, etc.
@@Tolono Yes, I noticed that! Obviously, he should make sure his wheels are spaced right, center-of-tape-lines rest on center of rail heads. Also, let's verify that the wheels are fixed to the axles. Independently-rotating wheels are very prone to derail. And he should bring a tape measure and make sure the track gage is close to nominal (56.5"). Assuming the gage is right, and the wheels are not independent, we can suspect high L/V. Since we can see the flange on the left start to climb, we know there's high L/V, and with two people it's less likely to derail also suggests high L/V. Also, with a 90-deg. flange angle and polymer wheels, that flange will climb very quickly. Does the chain drive connect to both axles, or just one? And look at 6:37. Looks like the wheels are too close or the gage is too wide.
@jerrymalone8370 It looks to me more like the wheels themselves are deforming, making the wheel taper non-existent. They're flexing enough to squish into the rail bed, so maybe the answer is a set of stiffer wheels. Maybe melt down some aluminium, and make a cast with the plastic wheels.
6:02 You're not in that person's property. Is that their tree? I would have just carried on.
Don't ever back down from a Karen. I would have encouraged her to make the call. Make an ass of herself.
I assume the rail line was acquired via "right-of-way", so the land it's on was never legally theirs, so when they abandon, it reverts, typically, to public property. It is the case in many jurisdictions that management of vegetation (and "molesting" of it) is under the guardianship of the local conservation authority, or the municipality. In THAT case, it actually IS against some by-law or other to mess with trees and the like. However, it's hugely unlikely that anyone, other than Karen, will care at all...
Every piece of that tree outside of her property does not belong to her. at least in texas that's how it is, I should know as my neighbored cut down the limbs of her tree from the inner side closest to the trunk, that were on my side of the property and simply threw away her trash on my property. As they felt down do to gravity, I had to pick up all of that myself. The police did not give a damn about it, the police literally laughed at me.
Facts
Sometimes it's just not worth it to get extra stress on our lives just to face a Karen, even if she ends on making an ass or herself.
Was it a female person?
Karens gotta Karen...
Check your gauge.
not a gauge problem as much as it is that not all four wheels are fully upright. at least one of them tilts visibly inward. if that has gone unnoticed thus far, how many other alignment problems are there?
agreed the flange width seems too short.
I think the base is racking because it's made of wood, and has no diagonal braces in the corners. Also if it's pulling to one side, there's obviously an alignment issue with the 2 axles, they're not parallel
Should probably wear a hard hat and high visibility vest. Bring a battery powered chain saw to trim back the branches. You will look important and noisy people will probably not question you as much.
100%!
First rule of red teaming, if you look like you should be there and look official no one questions you.
I heard how one guy inspected apartment buildings that way. So the problem was that there are a lot of building companies, some do very good work and some do not so good work. And he planned to buy apartment in one of new buildings and wanted to know if basement floor was properly built. Since often there are many different companies at once on new buildings - lets say for example electrical company, plumbing company, painting company and so on then no one had clear overview of who was allowed to be there and who was not. So he just went there with orange vest, hard hat and clipboard and pen and wrote down things that were interesting for him and then went away again.
Why is she soo concerned about some dead tree limbs? Does she not have anything better to do? Clearly knot
It is not that. It is her way of stopping them for making a noise in her back yard.
@@idahofur not her backyard.. also bohoo sometimes people make a little noise, also looked like a public trail she was on..
A lot of it is people discarded by society who need attention.
Karen.
Knot... I see what you did there 🤣
Seems to me that cutting down dead trees is much different than clearing some obstructive brush from a fallen tree. You always seem like a "Take the high road" kind of guy, and I salute you for it. Just don't get walked on.
I wondered if the rails were getting wonky, but since they're clamped to the ties I don't see how that could happen.
4:46 IMO it's popping off track because your platform/frame is deforming under load. And you've approached you're own solution. Insufficient mass.
Galvanized Steel Square.
The aluminum probably cracked and broke from the cutout for the center rod, not necessarily the torque load. That full aluminum strut should have been able to handle to torque load. Better idea for the future when working with thin aluminum is to bolt on a fastener bracket instead of cutting out a slot since aluminum is prone to cracking.
Its making a noise before you derail. I think something might be loose or off center. Pin down the noise right before derail. You got yourself a gremlin hiding somewhere in that thing.
I think the deviations in the track depending on the direction it's bending or turning.. is not completely ideal for the current design of the cart.. the fixed positions of the wheels and possibly know play of the axles cause the derailment
Riding up and over one side or the other
Oh No! Someone invoked Tree Law!
Please have the secondary power unit wear shoes. Been around that stuff and seen too many people get hurt.
As far as the Karen goes, just wear lab coats. She will do what ever you say.
Also Camber.
Great vid, keep 'em coming.
Lab coats or high vis
It is so wholesome to see your beautiful and wonderful wife engaging with you in these endeavors. Kudos to her.
My thoughts exactly!
iirc the angled surface of the wheels is what keeps the train centered on the track (not the flanges)
so if your axles are sagging, you lose that angle and it'll derail
The angled surfaces centre the cart between the rails provided the rails are level, which they probably aren't in places. The flanges should prevent the cart being pushed far enough left/right to derail if he has the gauge set correctly and the axles aren't bending.
Beware of the tree police 😂
More weight, low-friction wheels, or a longer wheelbase. But most likely the frame isn't stiff enough, and is "tacoing". At one point it looks like diagonally opposite wheels are in the air, the vehicle can turn, and drop one wheel. Us heavy guys need to take flexing structures into account.
When they start doing a tear-out, get yourself some pieces of rail. High quality steel, and a section of it should also make for a good smithing anvil. And while you're still at it, the pump-car may need wider wheels with more of a conical section.
My recommendations are:
1. Use a metal frame (wood flexes too much)
2. Try to get the center of gravity down in the middle of your little wagon
3. Use a combustion engine connected with the axle in the middle (try to put the engine in the middle helps with the center of gravity)
4. Puts chairs for your comfort and maybe a 45° up front bumper to push the bushes down when cruising the abandoned rails.
Reciprocating loads can literally heat up the aluminum at the stress-point (notch) and practically turn it into putty and rips without getting red-hot. It's neat watching it happen under a microscope.
I was thinking he needed to run that piece of wood over top of the pivot point with the aluminum running underneath sandwiching. It between the two. Remove a lot of the load and stress off of that cutout in the aluminum.
he need bearings on the crank pivot point
He chopped a huge chunk out of the C profile of the aluminum - it has no strength when you do that - it's essentially a flat plate at that point, and it's easy to bend a flat plate in that direction - that's why you have the "arms" on the C - those arms resist bending in the other direction. It's like trying to bend a ruler in the flat direction, vs in the tall direction - one bends easily, and the other is virtually impossible to bend. That's the whole point of a C channel, or an I beam profile - it resists bending in both directions because of the shape.
@@gorak9000 he could use the rectangle steal tubing instead and tack mig weld the bearings in place
@@gorak9000 Yep, that huge notch was the main problem.
I love when people show all the setbacks and the process of fixing those problems. Probably the most important part of making anything.
that "concerned citizen" wasn't hugged enough as a child
This channel bases itself on things I think I want to try. It's amazing. We had several railroad cars ride through town a month or so ago, and I have been interested before. 73s
the "tree police" line got me
Might be some chassis flexing exacerbating the derailing issue. You can see how much it flexes when you lift it back onto the track. The stiffness of that spare aluminium you kept might come in handy for making some crossbar supports to keep her sturdy.
you should add a reveser gearbox so you can pull or push a lever so it gose in the direction you want, that way you dont have to keep picking it up just to turn it around so it's going the right direction
That railroad pump car is awesome. Shame the neighbours can't have fun anymore
*_"...right up there with SAVE IT FOR PARTS and ADHD HOARDING."_*
Gabe and I are 'spirit brothers'. 😊
Well he certainly is no procrastinator
@@addhoardingprocrastinator Procrastinate now! Don't put it off.
@@Peter_S_>>> _Why put off till tomorrow what you can do the day after?_ 😉
Your wheels aren't firm enough you can seem them moving around in different angles, you gotta make sure they stay straight otherwise they will derail
Yep, at 4:37 the front left wheel seems to be leaning especially hard, which will result in it wanting to move inward more than the other wheels and derailing everything.
The angle of the slopes on the flat side of the wheels is the only thing that is stabilizing the wheels sideways (at least in normal situations, the ledges are supposed to prevent derailing in sharp corners and such).
Maybe the frame warped since last time.
Love the retro build music n clips, a freeze frame ending wod have been the icing!
Thanks for documenting your efforts
Next time wear some high vis vests and hard hats. Then everyone will assume you're supposed to be there. 😂
Haha I'm from Minnesota and I recognize that track!
Just south of the High Bridge. Pretty cool down there.
Those tracks serviced the Twin Cities Assembly Plant until it was torn down in 2012.
This channel continues to be fascinating. You might check the gauge and conicity... I am not an expert on that. But the wheels should be fixed to the axles, and the axles should be perfectly parallel. You may also have a problem with the frame flexing. It seems like the wheels are toeing in, or possibly the camber angle is flexing. You might need a heavier axle.
Say okay about trimming dead brush, then pantomime starting a fire while loudly announcing that their idea to just burn it is much better.
Tell Karen you’re the Special Assistant to Transportation Secretary Buttigieg. She’ll go away happy.
The pump car across the bridge was awesome, haha
I got thrown out of GM here in Oakland county MI on my rail kart. lol, I am thankful the security had a sense of humor.
I love these kart videos Gabe! I would be more than happy to bring my MIG welder, and 25’ of 1/12 fence pipe, and fabricate you a better chassis. I honestly believe the lumber cannot support the PSF center of your kart. Hence flexing in the middle, causing negative camber on the wheels. From my experience, my wheels ride on the inside edge about an inch equal on the rails. When we sit on the chassis, it becomes zero. The wheels are conical to self center on the rail. The negative camber pushes the wheels down to the bottom of the wheel, making it easy to derail.
Again I am happy to bring my MIG, generator, and camping gear to Minnesota from Michigan. Hang out at your camp. I really would love to see your subway car in person 😂
7:26 looks like the front right wheel (from perspective of the direction of travel) is flexing the axle a bit so the bottom pushes inward. stiffer axles might help with that.
No sure if anyone motioned this in other comments. It look like the platform was "racking" a bit too. Near the end of the video it seemed that one side of the platform lifted up and pulled the opposite side inward, causing the wheels to pull inwards and off the track. Keep up the great work.
Great to see the railroad project back. Sorry about your Karen infestation ☹️
To stifen the beam I'd use a couple of plywood diamond shapes on either side of the pivot.
I'm pretty sure the inner width is too short. In other words, the flanges should be nestled much closer to the inner edge of the rails. As it is, when one flange is right against the inner edge, and you hit a curve, the total distance between the tracks is greater than the width of the axle. In my opinion, you might also consider splitting the deck in two, with one half for each axle, with an inch or two of articulation, like an articulated truck. That way, each axle can stay perpendicular to the track simultaneously. Alternatively, you could emulate a real train car by building the axles into "trucks" (the sets of wheels on train cars that have a certain degree of "yaw") such that each set of wheels aligns independently to the tracks, even on sharp curves. In such a set-up, each set of wheels can be at different angles without stressing the car or mounting points of the axles. If you split the deck, You could have a floating deck on top, treating the sub-deck like the "trucks" described above (though, that design is obviously getting pretty dang complex).
6:27 It looks like there is a bit of negative camber on the wheels that you are standing over.
My theory would be that when it gets loaded with the wait of a person, the camber of the wheels gets more negative. This would prevent the train wheel from working the way they are designed.
I can't tell where the bearings are positioned, but it would probably help to move them out towards the wheels if possible.
That's too bad it did not work, but i am sure you will figure it out. You can do this! Nice video btw.
A new draisine video, it was a complete success. Now we know a few more ways things can go wrong. For me, there are no failures, only new ways something doesn't work. At first, I thought it was an issue with the variable gauge, but the problem lies elsewhere. I am confident they will find a solution. I am very much looking forward to more videos.
I would love to build a speeder. Glad to finally see yours! I didn't realize you had a pump car that thing is probably only a little flimsy is all. Your measurements are most likely all good, but the margins are too wide for the materials when everything is working together. Good work. Love to see it.
Might need springs pushing the wheels outward or "spring loaded wheels" and a stiffer chasis.
1:31 In my opinion you should absolutely be using solid round stock for this, preferably tool steel. That arm is going to be under the strain of 2 people after all.
Don’t let the tree police stop you they’re just being a holes
You always have the most interesting T Shirts. I do not think i have ever (except on your channel) seen a SPAM shirt. lol
Got that at the Spam Museum!
@@saveitforparts cool
actually the train tracks area cover 45ft on both side or something. no trees or whatever are allowed inside that zone.
We need more Betties' and less Karens in this world. Thank you for all you do.
Your videos are fun. Even though I know nothing about the satellite stuff I can't take my eyes off.
Looks to me like you need to stiffen the frame and wheel connections, check your gauge, 4ft 8 and a half inches, but mostly, the flanges on the wheels need to be bigger. Closer to what you would find on a actual railcar
I see 2 pieces of trimmed rail as ramps and a block and tackle for leverage here.
Every problem is an opportunity to innovate, Stash it away and have a good think :)
that needs to be on a shirt
0:55 that's exactly how my DIY 2 stroke motorized bike frame cracked. Under torque and vibrations.
Just some random ideas i came up with, dunno how useful. Maybe you could make a 3d printed wheel and use that as a mold to cast wheels from metal. Strikes multiple birds with one stone: New Sandland Sidequest unlocked. Maybe the sandstone when broken up makes for good casting sand. Would add some weight to your build, but weight combined with (Sandland) sand equals traction. Sanders(not Bernie) can be a box of sand with a cup in it. Would be a cool project, you could surely pull that off with all the stuff you gathered.
The issue is pretty obvious i think. The platform lacks rigidity. You can see it warp and pop. Both in axles and the frame.
its the torsion from you pression down on the pully. probably too much weight with the steel up top. maybe the tightened chain adds to the torsion idk.
looks like when you are derailing the flange of one wheel still stays on the track where it should be, while the other wheel is able to flex enough inward to come off the rail. looks like maybe loose hubs, flexy wheels, or flexy axles?
When you put the camera under I noticed that the frame twisted. Maybe some more bracing under the deck.
Here's my comment to boost your ratings.
You earned it.
try putting springs behind on the wheels on the axel shaft to keep the wheels inner groove pushed up against the track.
That would make it worse: higher L, same V gives higher L/V ratio = more likely to derail.
so its derailing bc the wheels are a bit too close to the center, and for tiping up, pull the wheels more towards the edge, that should fix all of the issues, and make sure to use a square
At 7:28 it looks like the asymmetric torque wants the wheel to ride up over the track but instead the wheel cambers inwards enough to allow the opposite wheel to fall between the tracks. I wonder if it hase some toe or if the axle isn't fully perpendicular to the chassis.
Maybe take it to a local tire shop for a wheel alignment?
Pruning is not cutting down a tree.
at around 6:45 you can see how the wheels base is too short on the sides its sticking out way too much inside it looks like maybe enlarge it and add springs on the hubs to create tension and follow the track better?
I would love to have her section or two of that railroad track, to be certain. Portable anvil project that would benefit from having access to it. I'd love to make a few and sell a couple since it's as easy to make 10 as it is to make one.
I could see this guy manning a spaceship
Certain parts of the track are leaving too little of the wheel contacting the track - so maybe two of the wheels could use a little spring loaded extension, pushing the wheel track outward when going around curves.
Your wheels needs more bevel and a solid axle between them. Then the wheels will center themselves. Great stuff. Let's keep working on LoRa.
I love this channel so much it isn’t even funny lol
I'm pretty sure it's not illegal to cut up a fallen tree.
Looks to me like the axle has too much flex. Great video though!
Looks like the wooden frame was flexing and caused the axle to skew.
how about instead of removing the railroad and turning it into a bike trail, they just keep the tracks and turn it into a rail biking trail
Perhaps two old aluminium ladders as a base frame?
I think I remember you using some new lumber on this it may have dried and Shrink slightly changing the size of your frame
That's actually quite possible!
youre moving a square through an arc, its gonna derail without some wiggle room
I would measure the width of that track to see how consistent the Gauge is... I doubt that it's you with the design of your Velocipede. (Nice build 👍)
4:00 I think I can SEE the problem in this shot. the rear left wheel is canted a tiny bit. Look at it in slow motion if you can.
just a quick thought, it appears your frame or drive shaft might be flexing too much from the drive force applied. i could be wrong.....
Have you considered the phase of the moon when trying to determine, a) if it has something to do with the derailments, and b) if the PSTPP (Public Space Tree Pruning Police) operate on during the gibbous phase?
Everything was good until the neighbor bit. Now it will take another six hours to stop hating people again.
6:00 need an electric chain saw, then can get out of there before nosy people call the cops
2:27 nah. The only mistake there is not adding a camel back to it. So you know how cherry pickers have that reinforcement of the main boom, same here. In fact, if you go through old, old pictures of these, you can see there's reinforcements on quite a few of them. Some more artisanal (wood overlapped) some more industrial, in particular one i recall, a cast iron "bridge" that was joining the middle points between the handles and the pivots.
0:58 Gabe, I wonder if tubular aluminum or structured steel would be a better option, since it would be able to take the mechanical loading better than a channel would?
That must have been the dead tree that person was living in. State parks in MN - no you can't cut dead or living trees. State forests - yes you can cut down dead wood for firewood. You may need a permit.
Now you weren't cutting this for firewood and you are in city limits so pretty sure they are incorrect in this case. She is probably just upset by change and lashing out indiscriminately.
Anywho... good to see the cart in action. I wonder if there's a slight gauge issue combined with the grippy material of the wheels. (Shrug)
Hope you had a blast at Open Sauce!
I've been keeping an eye out for you in videos I am seeing from the event. You were mentioned and shown in Jeff Geerling's video about his PIZ dispenser (just before the nineteen minute mark)!
Oh dang, awesome! It was cool to have Jeff stop by, I'll go check out his video :-)
The aluminum might have been strong enough if you didn't chop a huge chunk out of it (and with a dull beaver or something? Jeez that looks rough). A C channel profile is only strong when the whole C is intact - once you chop the sides out, it looses most of it's strength. Also the problem with the derailing is the base platform is all wood, and it's probably racking - put some diagonal braces on the bottom across the corners might help keep it square, and all the wheels on the rails - or better yet, build a frame out of steel that's welded together.
Also, tell Karen to sit on the dead tree and spin... some people...
Next project will be to build train tracks by that mine.
I like the music it's fun
thank you for posting video
There is always some grump muffin, just ignore.
It’s not illegal to cut dead trees on public land. That’s the biggest load of bs. Next time call her bluff. She’s literally hunt and camp on state land. Nowhere does it say “save the dead trees or else be fined.” I legit can’t tell you how many dead trees I’ve cut for firewood on public/state/county land.
after seeing this i want to make one mysellf
as i may be able to get my hands on a old flat truk simmiler to this so i have the bace
so i realy want to see if i can do this now
The axels/wheels have too much give/slack and are able to jump inside the track.
Maybe the axle is slipping on the "wheels" allowing it to move off the track? Idk, it's hard to tell with the camera angle.
You best save the rest of that aluminium push handle for parts! Good job mate!
Disregard.
5:44 you should have put orange reflective vest on. Then no one would have said anything.
Gotta love prototypes, and their infinite issues. ;D