I remember you commenting once “I’ve never used a footprint on any of my expensive tents and they’re all fine” where someone responded “I wish I had many expensive tents, but for a few ounces a footprint is worth it to protect the one I have”
The 2 main reasons I like one. The bottom of the footprint is always damp when I pack up in the morning, the bottom of my tent is dry however. Secondly it gives me a nice clean surface to work on when pitching and taking down the tent. For me the $20 and couple of ounces is worth it.
Could you please put a sheet of tyvek through your puncture, abrasion, and waterproofing tests to see how it holds up vs tent floor fabric? If it does better, that would immediately justify putting a sheet of it below your tent as a footprint
There is a video where someone did this and Tyvek proved to be the far better material pretty much all the way around, but only Homewrap. Other versions are good, but not nearly as good as Homewrap. Also, I say "pretty much" because of the HH rating. Homewrap has a natural HH rating over 2k and that's high as far as the average ground sheet HH rating goes, but there are some factory made ones that are treated to an even higher rating, as well as some alternative materials. Those are treatments, though, and they add weight. Tyvek's waterproofness is built into the material not unlike DCF. When it comes to puncture resistance, Tyvek Homewrap is like pitching your tent on a bulletproof vest.
Great video. Please do Tyvek. I've used Tyvek footprints for several years now because they seem to be more durable and are certainly less expensive than the name brand versions. Would love to know how Tyvek compares.
As others mentioned, primarily it is easier to clean a muddy footprint, but I also use it for more occasions: - sitting mat at the beach when traveling - ground cloth for laying out your stuff to not loose anything if needed - as a cover for some bicycle bags or other stuff that does not fit in the tent - mini tarp as a sun shade ...
I run a textile testing lab, incl waterproof products. You did a pretty decent job all things considered. I suggest working with a lab to design some real world testing as a next step. You would be surprised how textiles can often fail. Tensile testing, grab testing, wash testing, resistance to UV. Other commenter's make good points such as keeping the tent clean, etc. I would add that I have camped on ground with lots of rocks and sharp objects that cannot be removed. The rest of the campsite was muddy and boggy. It's why I car camp with an elevated tent. Oh, on waterproofness, if water gets between the foot print and the tent, then it can fail much quicker as pressure builds up versus soil which is permiable. Or with chairs or camp stretchers create a localised high pressure zone.
Also a tent floor and a ground sheet have no full contact. So the wrinkles in both materials make an additional liquid-to-vapor-to liquid-to-vapor-to liquid shield that being: water from soil/mud to evaporate to surface dew on the ground sheet, evaporate on the outer floor, wetten it, then has to evaporate through the tent floor and re-condense on the inner tent floor so to produce a puddle. You may feel that it needs much more joules to perform and needs to overcome by natural osmosis the DWR and not by being pressed in some way.
I appreciate the efforts to test things scientifically. But to me it appears that you often come into these tests with your decision made and, unconsciously or not, pick tests and interpret conclusions to siut that preconception.
Loved your videos and how you thoroughly test your theories. One thing I will say with footprints is that they help keep your tent clean. I went backpacking and it rained didn't have a footprint and my tent got muddy. Had to spend a lot of extra time cleaning it when I got home. When it rains is when I wish I had a footprint for sure
You make some great points and a lot of what you say sounds good. I do take issue with a couple of things though. First condensation. A lot of the reduced condensation claims I've seen have come from You Tubers in the UK. From memory they have been using Hilleberg tents that have ground sheets/foot prints that go under the tent AND vestibule area. Anecdotally when I have tried the same with my groundsheet of choice, An SOL emergency blanket that weighs only a few ounces and is a double use item, I get less condensation (not scientifically tested of course). My second issue is that I backpack a lot of the time in environments that require you to pitch on sand stone. I've worn through sections of my 100D-200D day pack by simply brushing across sandstone a couple of times. Brand new pack+ 5 or 6 feet of sandstone= hole in pack. I'm not sure 8+ hours of me tossing and turning on a 30D floor, directly on sandstone, won't have some negative impact, especially with my full weight on the fabric as opposed to simply brushing past the sandstone while hiking, which created holes. Obviously what I'm describing is pretty specific to backpackers in the Southwest, I assume. And clearly I've not done any scientific studies just my experience. Either way I enjoy and appreciate all of the work you do, I just wanted to bring up these two points.
I LIKE A FOOTPRINT. I wake up in the morning and pack away a dry tent and a dryish rainfly inside my bag. Then I fold up the wet footprint and pack it in my outside pocket along with my camp shoes. So a footprint is not about abrasion resistance but it is for moisture management. I am a Virginia camper and I suspect our ground holds and releases more moisture than the arid west.
Good stuff. Not often I throw a tent up in conditions like you show, sandy and level. We primarily backpack in the Rocky mountains and the desert SW where we frequently are off trail and conditions are rocky and uneven. The footprint gives added protection and peace of mind but also is used for rainy conditions to allow a fly first tent setup/teardown. It’s worth the weight IMO…
If you’re on muddy or dirty ground, you can roll your tent and fly up on top of the footprint, making it much easier and nicer for packing up. Then you can stuff your nasty muddy, wet footprint separately. I just use a thin piece of poly tarp, weighs very little, does the trick, and can be a handy piece of emergency equipment.
The two main advantages for me are that it separates the mud/dust from the tent when packing it up, and that it allows the tent to be set up starting with the outer layer, which in the event of rain ensures that the inside stays dry. Unfortunately, here in France, even in midsummer, you have to be prepared for rain ._.
I am using a Tiger Wall UL3 for my gf and I. We bring a footprint every time because it also allows us to setup a sun/rain shelter without having to put together the inside netting. Sure - I paid a pretty penny for it and it does take up some pack space, but the convenience and peace of mind is worth it. I think whether you need a footprint or not is also largely dependent on which region of the world you are pitching your tent. I mostly backpack in the Sierra and the sites tend to be rather rocky and scattered with broken pinecones.
It depends on the tent and what you use it for. While hiking in Scotland, I used my tent as a tarp during rain with the footprint, not only for sleeping, but also during brakes. This was a great addition to my kit and I was very happy to Cook my lunch and heat up water out of the rain. So again as I said, it has its advantages all depending on the environment and your tent.
@@RoyCohenwonder You changed it, but you didn't correct it... It's a *break* not a _brake_ - which is why I asked you, "Disc or drum?" As in disc or drum brakes on a car.
For my Hilleberg tent (the Nammatj 3 GT) I really like the footprint as it also extends into the large vestibule making it more comfortable, and their prices are reasonable for footprints unlike many tent manufacturers.
Totally agree. Until you've used a footprint in a vestibule area on a rainy or muddy trip then you don't know what you're missing. The only time I don't take a footprint with my Nammatj 2 is while snow camping. I like to dig down in the vestible area to make a comfortable area for getting boots on and off (sit in the tent, feet dangle over the excavated area)
This is also where the mitigation of condensation argument is true - when the footprint covers the floor area of the vestibule. This traps the moisture from the ground under the footprint instead of under the fly. The footprint in the test only covered the floor of the tent instead of floor and vestibule.
I love the passion and hardwork put into this video, all the testing and consumer friendly mindset. With that said, I'm still using a footprint, they're always on sale and it makes for a quick and easy cleanup lol
I'm an Aussie hiker. In Australia we generally have more compact and less absorbent soil than whats found in America. This means less rain water soaks in the ground, and more rain water can run and soak through the tent. I've seen campers that tent without a footprint for protection and get really wet, and other campers tent with one and stay dry, both on the same night. Most other Aussie hikers I've chatted to agree that footprints are worth it. That's been my experience thus far.
I was thinking the same thing - different area - I live in the Rockies, we have no such thing as that some ground he was setting up on, which means you are grinding your tent between you and the immovable rocks. Ground sheets matter 🤣😁
great to see some science applied to this topic. For my money I like to pack a thick tarp that has multiple uses, including tent footprint but I only use it as such if I'm being lazy or its particularly muddy.
Having a nice clean surface to work on when I set up and pack up my tent is where a footprint is great. I've camped through a few big rainstorms and woke up to a damp floor using a footprint, just like my mate who had a 4season tent and no footprint on those same trips. I thought my footprint would give me abrasion/cut resistance, but much to my surprise I found two gashes in my floor on the last trip. I would have to agree with your overall message. Look after your tent, pick a good spot, clean the ground well and all will be well.
This year is my first for backpacking/camping. Got a Naturehike Cloud Up 2 person tent that came with a footprint, with the footprint itself coming with grommets to hook the tent poles into. It’s pretty light and thanks to the design, i’d say it makes setting up my tent a bit easier, as you can install the frame with the footprint alone. I’m a bit of a worrier when it comes to breaking gear, so i’ll probably always use the footprint. Love that you put so much thought and effort into your tests, you have amazing channel!
Lots of goat head stickers in the areas I camp at regularly. I’m not going to jeopardize the integrity of sleeping pad because a goat head pokes through my tent floor. Site location doesn’t matter when the stickers are literally everywhere.
My reason for using a poly cro ground sheet is so I have a clean space to store my gear in the vestibule. I use a X mid tent that has lot of usuable vestibule space, but unless you don't care about your gear being dirty or muddy you need a way to protect them. Plus it gives me a dry area to put my boots back on in the morning without bringing them inside the tent inner.
Great testing! BUT I do argue one really important thing: Outer-Pitch-First-Ability... If you have a footprint you most likely can pitch your tent outer first. This is very useful in heavy rain conditions, when you really don't wat a wet inner. I do agree that your testing shows the facts and figures disproving the given statements. But if you need to pitch outer-first there is no real way around this extra weight (you can fashion your own harness for tent poles with some rope, but that is tedious).
i've never heard someone call the tent fly an outer tent, but i understand what you are saying. from my experience, you cannot set up the fly before the "inner tent" on most tents; they are not designed that way.
@@vincentvega5686 Outer pitch are designed differently and the availability I think depends on where you live and the common conditions. I live in North America and didn't even know outer-first existed, I can't fine anywhere that sells them that's not overseas. I think in the UK they're more common because of the rain, the poles are on the fly and the tent is pre-attached to the inside so you pitch the whole thing at once and don't need to worry about the tent inner getting wet. The downside is the inner is not taught (only the fly is) so it flaps around a lot.
@@bleepbloop101010101 first time that i've seen a tent with outer pitch design was almost 30 yrs ago. and i've only seen a couple of them since. so they are very rare compared to all other tents out there.
Another great video..but... when it comes to condensation the idea of the footprint is to have one that covers the porch areas where wet grass/ground has the biggest effect on condensation. Fancy doing that again but with a footprint that fits the porches too? ATB Andrew
Very cool to see all these footprint factors tested out. I do use a footprint in the hope it will stretch a few extra years out of the floor of my tent for car camping. But I did cut it myself from a roll of poly sheeting so almost free. For hiking I wouldn't bother to save the space/weight. Regarding your glasses company sponsor; I am a firm believer that what you are looking through all day to see the world should be good quality and the anti-reflective coatings and scratch-resistant coatings are completely worth it. And for those with a stronger Rx, the extra cost for "high-Index" lenses 1000% worth it to have a thinner/lighter lens. It does make for more expensive glasses, but damnit if you're wearing them every day these glasses upgrades making living with glasses a bit more tolerable. Also, I'm not a regular to this channel but surely folks have mentioned that you are a dead-ringer for Richard Dreyfuss in Jaws!
Love your videoes 😃 About condensation: Did the footprint cover both vestibules? I think a lot of moisture comes from the ground especially in the nothern countries. Centainly in Scandinavia, where I live...
Tyvek is the only material I'll use for a groundcloth. Nylon absorbs too much moisture. My main reasoning and I see others saying this too. The ground cloth is keeping the tent body much cleaner and its nicer to pack away a dirty tyvek than a dirty muddy tent. Also you can use them independently for a picnic or to lay down in a shelter to protect your sleeping pad. Ive also seen them used to hitch rides into town. Your testing should use a tyvek. Also some tents can use the ground cloth to set up the fly without the insert saving weight in seasons where bug protection is less concerning.
I worn out the bottom of a decent mid-class tent in 2 months (slept there about 50 nights) while bicycle touring. With a cheap tarp as a footprint, I have had the same tent for 3+ years now and it is still going strong.
IMO you missed answering a crucial part of the puncture resistance question? To draw conclusions from that test you’d establish what the force would be from different ways we use our tent, to know how much more useful the resistance gains are from the footprint. You did this for the waterproofing scores nicely, but missed this for the puncture resistance tests. Would love to know your thoughts!
I only use a footprint to keep the bottom of the tent "clean." I have camped too many times in the rain to know the bottom of the tent gets sandy, muddy, yucky, and/or generally wet no matter how good my rain fly is. Footprint keeps the tent clean by moving the mess to the footprint, plus theyre easier to clean at home than the tent bottom.
- It gives more comfort, at least in my mind - It helps when packing up - to pack the sleeping bags, pads and tent - Often use it while hiking not to put my stuff on the ground, or as a picnic blanket when its wet this video did not change my mind, I will keep taking it with me :)
Thanks for another great video, Steven. I had a call with Big Agnes recently, and they told me that I do not need a footprint to stay dry in their tents.
Thanks for the validation for not ordering one just now for my backpacking tent. I'll still use one when bikepacking as I regularly camp on hard surfaces.
Very nice video, as always! However, I have a few more pro arguments in favour of a footprint. Cleaning: it's much easier to wash a piece of nylon than a tent floor. Fly-first-pitch: most freestanding tents can only be pitched rainproof with a suitable footprint. Waterproofing: you can easily reapply a the waterproof coating of a footprint, not so easily with a tent. Protect what you have: Many people only have one tent, for which they have saved for a long time. They are probably prepared to protect what they own and carry a few more ounces even if the performance is only 10% better. That's why I still bring a footprint :) Nevertheless, a very exciting video, thank you very much!
I've started using a footprint (we call it a groundsheet) again with more multi-day winter and shoulder season hiking (we call it "tramping" here in Aotearoa). I'm not worried about the tent floor in terms of waterproofness or abrasion but a groundsheet makes the vestibule more practical in mud or snow, makes for a cleaner pack down and can double as an extra tarp shelter or clean loadout space if needed. I also like the fact I can do the roll test on a footprint before I pitch a tent to make sure things are level(ish) for sleeping - we don't get a lot of flat camping spots on trails down here so finding a bit of ground that fits your body's sleeping shape and then pitching around it is a valuable art.
I like the flexibility I get from some footprints. One of the reasons I love my Naturehike Cloud Up 2 is that while the footprint is a bit heavy it’s perfect for a footprint/fly only set up for my dog and I. But on trips where bug protection is needed I bring a inside and a tyvek sheet in place of the ground sheet. With the snow skirt fly it’s a solid Colorado 3.5 season tent system with unmatched flexibility at its price. The 20D version is currently on sale at Amazon for $130 w/ the footprint.
I have an MSR tent like the one in the video. I use a tyvek footprint with it, and it allows you to set it up with just the fly. Works great for setting up in a rainstorm. You can put up the rest of the tent in the shelter of the fly.
You are missing the point pal! Im wild camping in the middle of nowhere in Scotland just now and I got this tyvek large underneath my X-mid because some grounds are muddy and a mess or often thorns and other sharp stuff you cannot always see and the most important is to protect my new thermarest xlite as mats are expensive these days...also give me nice covered vestibules to put stuff out there instead on a dirt or grass etc...I also used it today as my sit pad or to lie down when having a hiking break...hope you see that and redo the video lol😂
I like using my tyvak sheet as a footprint mostly just to keep my tent clean. Also I use the tyvak for just sitting on and throwing my gear on when my tent is not up. I keep it on an outside pocket for easy grab and go and pack up.
The main to use a foot print for me is to reduce the amount of abrasive dirt that inevitably will get stuck to the bottom of the tent. This dirt will spread through the rest of the tent when it is packed up between nights.
Cool video, makes sense on the puncture resistance. Only point that *really* comes into play is when the site can't be cleared. Cheap $10 backpackers tarp from Walmart is what I use. My experience is that it is much easier to clean up after a rain, the mud is mostly on the tarp instead of the tent. Feels less wrong to put a tarp away dirty than the tent. Any other benefits are purely incidental to me. I spend 15-20 nights a year in one.
I find a footprint is a great help reducing condensation if the ground is damp or I pitch on grass. I've got a X-Mid and use a piece of Tyvek covering the entire tent floor including vestabules.
This channel popped up for me as I am an adventure bike camper. I have the luxury of not being too particular with weight but size and packing are essentially the same. I do however use the eno hammock setup. I am curious if it is a weight issue or tree issue on why more people don’t use a hammock setup? I like not having to use a pad and like getting up off the ground.
I sometimes use a tarp folded double under my tent. This really helps insulate the tent floor which becomes significantly less chilly during cold nights.
Fun Video. Loved watching - Thank you. I always find it interesting when people who live on flat soft ground talk about "cleaning up" their campsite before they put a tent down. I live in the Rocky Mountains. You cannot move every rock from underneath your tent, you're lucky IF you can get a stake into the ground at all and you're not on a significant angle of some kind. It's beautiful country, but you are going to make compromises and that abrasion, puncture risk is real. I've had some very nice tents get holes in the floor after 1-3 uses, < 10 nights and I am fussy about where I sleep. When I backpacked in the Smokey Mountains this wasn't a risk, here - it's inevitable. I would love to see this test with tyvek or even a mylar blanket - both are very lightweight, cheap, 100% water proof and decently puncture resistant
When camping in a tent I like to use a ground cloth ( I used the 3m (3.2 yards ) of Tyvek 43gsm 1443R Kite Making Material , Durable , Strong , Lightweight and Breathable from Amazon. It's softer and quieter than the Tyvek used in home building. ) No matter where I set it up. The ground cloth is 1 or 2 inches smaller than the bottom of my tent and always under the tent's floor. It keeps the tents bottom clean and without one it will be wet and either dirty or muddy. At times even with it there is a 2 inch wet circumference around the outside , unprotected , tents bottoms edge.
Ive used an ex Bundeswher poncho as a 'footprint' for years now. If you check the ground before pitching your tent you shouldnt need to worry about anything puncturing the ten and when you strike camp, any dirt or wet is only on the footprint and makes packing the actual tent a lot simpler - ! 😅
love your testing - keep up the good work One issue with a foot print I didn't hear you talk about is what happens when water gets inbetween the foot print and the tent floor. A pretty common mistake when not setting up rain fly and tent correctly
Great video and I love the science you put into your testing methods, watched the tic and mosquito repellent earlier. I like many others are wondering about the Tyvek ground sheets though and would like to see a new round of tests with that 😀
I use my tent foot prints for two primary reasons. 1: in the PNW (🇨🇦 side) I use mine primarily to keep my tent clean due to living in a rain forest. Debris here just stick and are gross due to moisture and humidity, primarily cedar and fir shedding. 2: i have always found the foot prints aids in deployment and retrieval of the tent. Especially holding the corners and a surface to keep the tent clean during stuffing, especially protecting and keeping the lighter weight top fabrics.
One of the biggest benefits for me taking my footprint is to test where I'll be pitching before putting everything up and like many others have mentioned, keeping the tent inner clean is also a big win especially on multi days
2:07 cool. the $60 footprint does protect against puncturing your several hundred dollar tent if you dont do a perfect job of clearing every single last rock and twig before setting up. which is what people use them for. video over.
I like the footprint because you can use it to check to see if your tent will fit in a specific spot. It's so much more coinvent to drag around the footprint to find that perfect spot for your tent long before you start messing with pegs, flys, and poles.
Tbh as I mostly site camp on grass in the UK, I'm only really using something to cover the vestibule area. In a couple of my tents, that is the ground sheet. This helps with the inevitable mud, as well as helps with evapotranspiration. But in most of my trekking pole tents, that's my sitmat (a 3/4 length 1/8 foam pad).
Dirt supposedly reduces waterproofness over time, and I don't like it on the bottom of my tent anyway, so I usually use some form of groundsheet. Mine is usually smaller than the tent floor itself, and just covers under my sleeping pad, which is where I find moisture accumulates most, and combines with the dirt to get really "ground" into the tent fabric. My go-to groundsheet right now is a cut-open trash compactor bag.
Depends on where you going to setup your tent to use a footprint. Environment, weather, soil situation etc... Cheap canvas is work as well, if you can afford you can also get those expensive one.
Definitely worth it. The bottom of my Durston x-mid 2 got torn on my first trip.
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The puncture resistance on tough grounds and muddy grounds is why it's worth it to me. It doesn't matter much when I've got a good site, but, uh, I don't always.
I have a Big Agnes single-person tent I bought in December 2005. It's in pretty rough shape now, but it's lasted me over 18 years, although my usage was pretty light, like 4 to 5 nights a year, so let's say ~80 nights of "normal" (i.e. standard campsite) camping (plus another 12 nights being hauled around Africa on the trip I purchased the tent for, back in 2006). The material of the tent fly is breaking down now (that's what I mean by "rough shape"), likely from UV exposure and heat, but the mesh that the top part of the tent body is made of has held up well (there are a couple of small holes, as you'd expect over that amount of time) as has the bottom of the tent. I do use a cheap blue tarp under my tent though, and I think that has served me well over the years, keeping the bulk of the dirt and debris on the ground from touching the actual tent. And it cost me like, 20 bucks. Maybe. Anyway, I'm probably going to purchase a new tent sometime in the next few months. Oh, and the biggest lesson I've taken from my current tent (vs. the tents of other people I know) is that aluminum poles are a must. I've seen so many fiberglass and composite poles splinter and/or break, but my current tent has aluminum poles and they are pristine. That's far more critical to me than a footprint.
I no longer use floored shelters. I have a backpacking tent, that USED to have a floor, but I got rid of the floor (and the mesh inner)...to save weight. Now, I just use the 6 mil plastic sheet, that I used to use as a floor saver ( for that tent)...as the tent "floor". It's already cut to shape and size. When I use a tarp for shelter (most of the time) - I just use a 2 mil plastic sheet (cheap dropcloth) cut down to fit. Works just fine. I will never go back to floored shelters. As such, I don't have to worry about condensation in my shelter(s)...because I have plenty of ventilation. If any condensation forms on the inside of the fabric, it just drips off the edges (of the shelter fabric) directly onto the ground. And, the "floors" used for my shelters are cheap and disposable. (I do NOT throw them away, though...I RECYCLE the material.)
As others have said, I think having a clean tent bottom might be just enough reason for me to want a footprints. But as always, I'm a camper, not a hiker, so weight of gear isn't an issue for me. Also, way to really nerd out this week. I mean, we had to break out some PVC pipe, bicycle pump, and an orbital sander? This is the kind of scientific experimentation I can get down with.
If you can carry it take it, if you can't leave it at home. When it rains, it actually holds water against your tent floor instead of allowing it to go into the ground. Condensation comes from the inside not the out so less breathability means more. I only take mine if i know in camping on rough ground or mud.
A ground sheet only holds water against your tent floor if it's too big or improperly placed and catches rain or you pitch in a bad spot where rain collects and runs over it. If a ground sheet is cut and placed right and you don't pitch in a depression you will never have this problem. Condensation is generated both inside and outside the tent from body heat, poor ventilation, wet ground, high humidity and pitching near water sources. A ground sheet doesn't matter one way or the other, but if it's large enough to cover the vestibule area it can be helpful for reducing condensation from ground moisture.
+1 for rerunning this set of tests against a sheet of Tyvek and a sheet of Polycro, and then evaluating their performance versus weight/cost. I suspect Polycro is the king of footprints: (very) low cost, very little weight, very hardwearing, completely waterproof, very difficult to puncture. I actually leave my polycro footprint fitted all the time, it only adds 50 grammes. Also feels slippery so it makes cleaning easier and the smooth surface means water, ie condensation from the soil moisture, just runs off in the morning. A quick shake and it's dry. As many have said here, this is a big deal in NW Europe, humidity will kill you here. Loving the home lab and the nod to Fortnine, BTW.
My two main reasons for using a ground cloth is controlling the dirt/mud on my single wall tent and being able to do a fly first pitch with my dual wall tents.
I always bring a tyvek footprint. I often get to camp later with little to no sunlight, so it's just a precaution in case I miss a prickly thing when pitching my tent. It also quickly gives me a clean-ish surface to have lunch or take a break on.
Although one does not place a significant static load on a tent floor when standing, I rarely find my self standing in tents. And your 8 psi load does not address the dynamic loads exerted by feet or other parts of the body. Dynamic loading of a heal can easily exert more than 20 psi, and as I spend very little time standing in tents I do spend a significant amount of time on my knees. A quick measurement of my bony knees on a pliable surface (modeling clay) resulted in contact area of ~2.5 in. sq. and a load of about 75 lbs per knee. That would result in a static floor load of about 30 psi. Plunking down on one knee after a long day could easily exert many times that load. When backpacking I rarely carry a Footprint, but when dealing with very rocky locations or when camping with kids, regardless of how well we attempted to clean the site we found the floors of the tents took a significant beating. Repair tape was usually at hand, but footprints became the norm. However, we never spent more than ~$20 for floor protection, as there are many very good DIY options. We also found that floor protectors left us with cleaner tents, as we could easily shake off most dirt and moisture and fold the footprint to trap any remaining dirt and moisture. Our DIY floor protectors also came in handy as sunshades and wind breaks among other uses.
I noticed the fortnine reference! I love motorbikes too! Our worries is seepage after a few years not tenting on well draining surface. The water can seep in. I notice on kayak and canoe guided trips the tents can vary but are quite robust. We are thinking just using a tent tarp cover, over the tent and one for the cooking area. This would be for canoe trips not back backing. What do you think? Roman from Squamish
I camp in my tent about 35+ nights a year, so my tent does see use and is now over 12 years old. I do use a footprint and it has saved my floor from an eager varmin that chewed through the footprint in 2 spots. Otherwise, the primary reason I use the footprint is for cleanliness. A lot of times, I am setting up on bare ground and if water gets under the tent the mud is on the footprint which is much easier to clean up at home than to clean the whole tent.
On most of my tents I have the manufacturer foot print, but on one of my one-person light weight REI tents I made my own out of 3m (3.2 Yards) of Tyvek 43gsm 1443R Kitemaking Material | Durable, Strong, Lightweight, Breathable. Much cheaper, very light weight and probably more durable. Also allowed me to cut a custom shape that extends the foot print into the vestibule area.
One benefit of a footprint not noted here: The FP on my Kaitum II extends into the dual vestibules. This means I can haul my pack under cover, but still outside the inner tent, and not have it sit in the dirt....or a muddy puddle should it rain.....overnight. Moreover, Hilleberg rigs it so it can all be pitched in a single go. Fly, inner, and floor all lay out at once and are integrated. They can be separated of course if you want to divide weight between partners. All in all it's a pretty functional system....but the fact remains most footprints are a touch pricey for the materials and manufacture involved.
i can't believe i'm watching home-made scientific product testing videos, but I LOVE IT. I think i've commented before, but these kinds of methodical testing videos are super enjoyable and give me huge amounts of respect for your opinions (EVIDENCE-BASED!!!) and they're just fun to watch. More bloopers please!
Can I point out that terrain makes a big difference. I've done a fair bit of camping in the high Sierra and my footprint has eaten a lot of random granite scuffing and scraping. And that damage lowers water resistance (which, caked on dirt does too). Think about your vid about rain gear meeting saturation. That tent floor works the same way. It's not just hydro pressure. I think you make some great points.... but I do think the caveat is "take into account your terrain".
Evidently someone's never tramped in the EU or NZ, because a) gorse and in NZ only - b) matagouri. Both of which have spines that can be a pain to see in grass and will puncture less tough tent floors. So if you have one of those "light weight" tents, you need it, or you will get punctures. And let's face it, after a long day's walk, you're not always going to have the energy/wakefulness to do a site check, especially if it's pissing down. Which it usually does in island climates... Learnt this lesson the fun way after post viral fatigue (tramping post a flu is not always the best idea) lead to me taking until 10pm to reach the Cass end of the Cass-Lagoon Saddle track, so had to pull the Exped Sirius II tent out and put it down. After a crap sleep (victim of the dodgy airproof mattress fabric issue) felt something poking me through the tent floor and the flat Exped mat, so after packing it up, checked the ground, and lo there was a couple of branches of matagouri. Fortunately the Sirius II has a tough floor, so no damage, but I suspect a lightweight without a footprint or tarp would have been damaged. Mainly because I've had matagouri spines go through leather sports shoes and easily pushed it through nylon backpack canvas as a test. So yeah, in certain environments you will need a foot print/tarp if you have a tent with a less tough floor. Or it will get punctured. Also water proof levels matter more if the ground's sodden/swampy, but most of us are going to avoid pitching a tent in such a place if we can help it.
I can see a footprint being useful if you have a freestanding tent and you’re able to set up the fly first while it’s raining and then set the interior tent up. And only bring it if you’re expecting some rain. I love watching your videos, you did a great job. I do have one question. might seem dumb, but I have a static V sleeping pad that’s 1.3 R-value and I have a Ozark trail foam pad that is R2 and if I combine those together, would it really be 3.3 R? But what about the cold air hitting the sides of your sleeping pad that’s on top That is a 1.3 wouldn’t that decrease the R value? For example, if I put 2 Ozark Trail foam, pads down, which will give me a 4 R and then I put a 3 inches thick but has no insulation. Let’s say it has an R value of 1 on top of that so that would make it 5 R. But if the cold air is coming from the side of the 3 inch Air pad that only has a R 1 wouldn’t you get cold? If this is true, then would it be warmer if I put the foam pad on top since it has the most R-value then the static V on the bottom, which sounds crazy😂 Maybe I’m just overthinking it.
I love your outside the box testing methods for gear. I always use a footprint for the peace of mind and to keep the bottom of my tent clean from the dirt/mud. I do want to try a Tyvek ground sheet to see if I like it any more than the overpriced manufacturers footprints.
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Another benefit you didn't mention, If you're camping somewhere muddy it's great to be able to pack a clean tent separate from a slimy footprint
The only reason to carry one for multiple days hike is to keep dirt and mud separated from the tent…
This is my one and only reason for using a footprint.
But then you still have to pack a slimy footprint, right? So is there really a benefit? (I'm curious what people think.)
Yep, I prefer to contain the mud on my ground sheet and fold it dirty side in.
@@oacy16y de la mochila donde la guardarás todos los días durante la travesía...
Cleaning my cheap tarp ground sheet has been easier than cleaning the bottom of my tent.
I have never cleaned the bottom of a tent. Not once.
You don't need to clean it. Just dry it when home.
@@daanschone1548 You may not NEED to clean it... but some people LIKE to have things kept clean.
@@ElTagno it depends where in the world you're camping. Not everyone wants their tent covered in mud.
@@Nell-Hamilton UK, mate.
I remember you commenting once “I’ve never used a footprint on any of my expensive tents and they’re all fine” where someone responded “I wish I had many expensive tents, but for a few ounces a footprint is worth it to protect the one I have”
A few ounces and a rediculous amount of money. Don't do it. Before 1980 or so there were no footprints. Why?
@@geraldhenrickson7472exactly.. and before 1886 there were no cars... Coincidence? I don't think so... 🐒
@@hologos_ that's a horrible analogy 🤣
@@higler. I know, I just thought it was funny. 😎
@@geraldhenrickson7472 bro in the video literally said you can make or get loads for cheap so not really
The 2 main reasons I like one. The bottom of the footprint is always damp when I pack up in the morning, the bottom of my tent is dry however. Secondly it gives me a nice clean surface to work on when pitching and taking down the tent. For me the $20 and couple of ounces is worth it.
Yeah, but is $60 to $80 worth it?
@@shhoppe More like $20 - $25
Could you please put a sheet of tyvek through your puncture, abrasion, and waterproofing tests to see how it holds up vs tent floor fabric? If it does better, that would immediately justify putting a sheet of it below your tent as a footprint
Love the work and information and would like to see Tyvek in the test
Great question! I was thinking exactly the same thing.
I was thinking the same . I make tyvek footprints for all my tents.
There is a video where someone did this and Tyvek proved to be the far better material pretty much all the way around, but only Homewrap. Other versions are good, but not nearly as good as Homewrap. Also, I say "pretty much" because of the HH rating. Homewrap has a natural HH rating over 2k and that's high as far as the average ground sheet HH rating goes, but there are some factory made ones that are treated to an even higher rating, as well as some alternative materials. Those are treatments, though, and they add weight. Tyvek's waterproofness is built into the material not unlike DCF.
When it comes to puncture resistance, Tyvek Homewrap is like pitching your tent on a bulletproof vest.
Great video. Please do Tyvek. I've used Tyvek footprints for several years now because they seem to be more durable and are certainly less expensive than the name brand versions. Would love to know how Tyvek compares.
As others mentioned, primarily it is easier to clean a muddy footprint, but I also use it for more occasions:
- sitting mat at the beach when traveling
- ground cloth for laying out your stuff to not loose anything if needed
- as a cover for some bicycle bags or other stuff that does not fit in the tent
- mini tarp as a sun shade ...
I use the largest Cocoon festival blanket as a footprint. Keeps the wet mud away, cheaper than original footprint and easy to pack and wash.
I like using the footprint in conjunction with the rain fly at the beach
I run a textile testing lab, incl waterproof products. You did a pretty decent job all things considered. I suggest working with a lab to design some real world testing as a next step. You would be surprised how textiles can often fail. Tensile testing, grab testing, wash testing, resistance to UV. Other commenter's make good points such as keeping the tent clean, etc. I would add that I have camped on ground with lots of rocks and sharp objects that cannot be removed. The rest of the campsite was muddy and boggy. It's why I car camp with an elevated tent. Oh, on waterproofness, if water gets between the foot print and the tent, then it can fail much quicker as pressure builds up versus soil which is permiable. Or with chairs or camp stretchers create a localised high pressure zone.
Also a tent floor and a ground sheet have no full contact. So the wrinkles in both materials make an additional liquid-to-vapor-to liquid-to-vapor-to liquid shield that being: water from soil/mud to evaporate to surface dew on the ground sheet, evaporate on the outer floor, wetten it, then has to evaporate through the tent floor and re-condense on the inner tent floor so to produce a puddle. You may feel that it needs much more joules to perform and needs to overcome by natural osmosis the DWR and not by being pressed in some way.
Water between the layers also promotes capillary wicking through the tent floor almost like pitching your tent in a puddle.
Get this guy on your show!
Might be mundane but I would rather clean a footprint than my tent if the ground is all muddy which in the UK it often is.
I appreciate the efforts to test things scientifically. But to me it appears that you often come into these tests with your decision made and, unconsciously or not, pick tests and interpret conclusions to siut that preconception.
Loved your videos and how you thoroughly test your theories. One thing I will say with footprints is that they help keep your tent clean. I went backpacking and it rained didn't have a footprint and my tent got muddy. Had to spend a lot of extra time cleaning it when I got home. When it rains is when I wish I had a footprint for sure
You make some great points and a lot of what you say sounds good. I do take issue with a couple of things though. First condensation. A lot of the reduced condensation claims I've seen have come from You Tubers in the UK. From memory they have been using Hilleberg tents that have ground sheets/foot prints that go under the tent AND vestibule area. Anecdotally when I have tried the same with my groundsheet of choice, An SOL emergency blanket that weighs only a few ounces and is a double use item, I get less condensation (not scientifically tested of course). My second issue is that I backpack a lot of the time in environments that require you to pitch on sand stone. I've worn through sections of my 100D-200D day pack by simply brushing across sandstone a couple of times. Brand new pack+ 5 or 6 feet of sandstone= hole in pack. I'm not sure 8+ hours of me tossing and turning on a 30D floor, directly on sandstone, won't have some negative impact, especially with my full weight on the fabric as opposed to simply brushing past the sandstone while hiking, which created holes. Obviously what I'm describing is pretty specific to backpackers in the Southwest, I assume. And clearly I've not done any scientific studies just my experience. Either way I enjoy and appreciate all of the work you do, I just wanted to bring up these two points.
I LIKE A FOOTPRINT.
I wake up in the morning and pack away a dry tent and a dryish rainfly inside my bag. Then I fold up the wet footprint and pack it in my outside pocket along with my camp shoes. So a footprint is not about abrasion resistance but it is for moisture management. I am a Virginia camper and I suspect our ground holds and releases more moisture than the arid west.
Good stuff. Not often I throw a tent up in conditions like you show, sandy and level. We primarily backpack in the Rocky mountains and the desert SW where we frequently are off trail and conditions are rocky and uneven. The footprint gives added protection and peace of mind but also is used for rainy conditions to allow a fly first tent setup/teardown. It’s worth the weight IMO…
If you’re on muddy or dirty ground, you can roll your tent and fly up on top of the footprint, making it much easier and nicer for packing up. Then you can stuff your nasty muddy, wet footprint separately. I just use a thin piece of poly tarp, weighs very little, does the trick, and can be a handy piece of emergency equipment.
The two main advantages for me are that it separates the mud/dust from the tent when packing it up, and that it allows the tent to be set up starting with the outer layer, which in the event of rain ensures that the inside stays dry. Unfortunately, here in France, even in midsummer, you have to be prepared for rain ._.
I am using a Tiger Wall UL3 for my gf and I. We bring a footprint every time because it also allows us to setup a sun/rain shelter without having to put together the inside netting. Sure - I paid a pretty penny for it and it does take up some pack space, but the convenience and peace of mind is worth it. I think whether you need a footprint or not is also largely dependent on which region of the world you are pitching your tent. I mostly backpack in the Sierra and the sites tend to be rather rocky and scattered with broken pinecones.
Thank you for the link to the DIY tutorial! I get so much value out of your videos. Please never stop.
It depends on the tent and what you use it for.
While hiking in Scotland, I used my tent as a tarp during rain with the footprint, not only for sleeping, but also during brakes. This was a great addition to my kit and I was very happy to Cook my lunch and heat up water out of the rain.
So again as I said, it has its advantages all depending on the environment and your tent.
_"...not for sleeping, but just during the brakes."_
Disc or drum?
@@StoneE4 thanks, I correct the text.
@@RoyCohenwonder You changed it, but you didn't correct it... It's a *break* not a _brake_ - which is why I asked you, "Disc or drum?" As in disc or drum brakes on a car.
@@StoneE4 dyslexia...
Thanks for the correction.
For my Hilleberg tent (the Nammatj 3 GT) I really like the footprint as it also extends into the large vestibule making it more comfortable, and their prices are reasonable for footprints unlike many tent manufacturers.
Totally agree. Until you've used a footprint in a vestibule area on a rainy or muddy trip then you don't know what you're missing. The only time I don't take a footprint with my Nammatj 2 is while snow camping. I like to dig down in the vestible area to make a comfortable area for getting boots on and off (sit in the tent, feet dangle over the excavated area)
The same goes for my fjallraven tunnel tent
This is also where the mitigation of condensation argument is true - when the footprint covers the floor area of the vestibule. This traps the moisture from the ground under the footprint instead of under the fly. The footprint in the test only covered the floor of the tent instead of floor and vestibule.
I love the passion and hardwork put into this video, all the testing and consumer friendly mindset. With that said, I'm still using a footprint, they're always on sale and it makes for a quick and easy cleanup lol
I'm an Aussie hiker. In Australia we generally have more compact and less absorbent soil than whats found in America. This means less rain water soaks in the ground, and more rain water can run and soak through the tent. I've seen campers that tent without a footprint for protection and get really wet, and other campers tent with one and stay dry, both on the same night. Most other Aussie hikers I've chatted to agree that footprints are worth it. That's been my experience thus far.
I was thinking the same thing - different area - I live in the Rockies, we have no such thing as that some ground he was setting up on, which means you are grinding your tent between you and the immovable rocks. Ground sheets matter 🤣😁
great to see some science applied to this topic. For my money I like to pack a thick tarp that has multiple uses, including tent footprint but I only use it as such if I'm being lazy or its particularly muddy.
Having a nice clean surface to work on when I set up and pack up my tent is where a footprint is great.
I've camped through a few big rainstorms and woke up to a damp floor using a footprint, just like my mate who had a 4season tent and no footprint on those same trips.
I thought my footprint would give me abrasion/cut resistance, but much to my surprise I found two gashes in my floor on the last trip.
I would have to agree with your overall message. Look after your tent, pick a good spot, clean the ground well and all will be well.
Thanks for inviting me along Steven. Although I do carry a footprint, you have thoroughly proved to me that it really isn’t needed. Great job!
I agree
I haven't followed tents over the years but I've always just used a tarp. Is this not a thing anymore? 😅
This year is my first for backpacking/camping. Got a Naturehike Cloud Up 2 person tent that came with a footprint, with the footprint itself coming with grommets to hook the tent poles into. It’s pretty light and thanks to the design, i’d say it makes setting up my tent a bit easier, as you can install the frame with the footprint alone. I’m a bit of a worrier when it comes to breaking gear, so i’ll probably always use the footprint. Love that you put so much thought and effort into your tests, you have amazing channel!
I use my tent on bikepacking tours, have a cheap footprint made of Tyvek (2x4m cost around 15€)
When did we start calling ground cloth footprint?
Lots of goat head stickers in the areas I camp at regularly. I’m not going to jeopardize the integrity of sleeping pad because a goat head pokes through my tent floor.
Site location doesn’t matter when the stickers are literally everywhere.
Yep. I’m using a footprint merely for pad protection
Goat heads are nasty. Sometimes they even go through tarps.
My reason for using a poly cro ground sheet is so I have a clean space to store my gear in the vestibule. I use a X mid tent that has lot of usuable vestibule space, but unless you don't care about your gear being dirty or muddy you need a way to protect them. Plus it gives me a dry area to put my boots back on in the morning without bringing them inside the tent inner.
Great testing! BUT I do argue one really important thing: Outer-Pitch-First-Ability... If you have a footprint you most likely can pitch your tent outer first. This is very useful in heavy rain conditions, when you really don't wat a wet inner. I do agree that your testing shows the facts and figures disproving the given statements. But if you need to pitch outer-first there is no real way around this extra weight (you can fashion your own harness for tent poles with some rope, but that is tedious).
i've never heard someone call the tent fly an outer tent, but i understand what you are saying. from my experience, you cannot set up the fly before the "inner tent" on most tents; they are not designed that way.
@@vincentvega5686 actually with enough trick you can if your tent have dedicated footprint,
@@vincentvega5686 Durston tents are :)
@@vincentvega5686 Outer pitch are designed differently and the availability I think depends on where you live and the common conditions. I live in North America and didn't even know outer-first existed, I can't fine anywhere that sells them that's not overseas. I think in the UK they're more common because of the rain, the poles are on the fly and the tent is pre-attached to the inside so you pitch the whole thing at once and don't need to worry about the tent inner getting wet. The downside is the inner is not taught (only the fly is) so it flaps around a lot.
@@bleepbloop101010101 first time that i've seen a tent with outer pitch design was almost 30 yrs ago. and i've only seen a couple of them since. so they are very rare compared to all other tents out there.
Another great video..but... when it comes to condensation the idea of the footprint is to have one that covers the porch areas where wet grass/ground has the biggest effect on condensation. Fancy doing that again but with a footprint that fits the porches too? ATB Andrew
This is the most informative channel on TH-cam. Wow.
3:17 FortNine shout out. Nice.
I’m not into motorcycles that much but the presentation and production values overate so good it doesn’t matter.
Very cool to see all these footprint factors tested out.
I do use a footprint in the hope it will stretch a few extra years out of the floor of my tent for car camping. But I did cut it myself from a roll of poly sheeting so almost free. For hiking I wouldn't bother to save the space/weight.
Regarding your glasses company sponsor; I am a firm believer that what you are looking through all day to see the world should be good quality and the anti-reflective coatings and scratch-resistant coatings are completely worth it. And for those with a stronger Rx, the extra cost for "high-Index" lenses 1000% worth it to have a thinner/lighter lens. It does make for more expensive glasses, but damnit if you're wearing them every day these glasses upgrades making living with glasses a bit more tolerable.
Also, I'm not a regular to this channel but surely folks have mentioned that you are a dead-ringer for Richard Dreyfuss in Jaws!
Love your videoes 😃 About condensation: Did the footprint cover both vestibules? I think a lot of moisture comes from the ground especially in the nothern countries. Centainly in Scandinavia, where I live...
Tyvek is the only material I'll use for a groundcloth. Nylon absorbs too much moisture. My main reasoning and
I see others saying this too. The ground cloth is keeping the tent body much cleaner and its nicer to pack away a dirty tyvek than a dirty muddy tent. Also you can use them independently for a picnic or to lay down in a shelter to protect your sleeping pad. Ive also seen them used to hitch rides into town. Your testing should use a tyvek. Also some tents can use the ground cloth to set up the fly without the insert saving weight in seasons where bug protection is less concerning.
Setting up the fly with the footprint allows you to then set up the tent afterwards which is super nice in the rain
Actually appreciated your ad in the middle for SportRX. You provided value to the company, and they should keep sponsoring!
I worn out the bottom of a decent mid-class tent in 2 months (slept there about 50 nights) while bicycle touring.
With a cheap tarp as a footprint, I have had the same tent for 3+ years now and it is still going strong.
IMO you missed answering a crucial part of the puncture resistance question? To draw conclusions from that test you’d establish what the force would be from different ways we use our tent, to know how much more useful the resistance gains are from the footprint. You did this for the waterproofing scores nicely, but missed this for the puncture resistance tests. Would love to know your thoughts!
I only use a footprint to keep the bottom of the tent "clean." I have camped too many times in the rain to know the bottom of the tent gets sandy, muddy, yucky, and/or generally wet no matter how good my rain fly is. Footprint keeps the tent clean by moving the mess to the footprint, plus theyre easier to clean at home than the tent bottom.
- It gives more comfort, at least in my mind
- It helps when packing up - to pack the sleeping bags, pads and tent
- Often use it while hiking not to put my stuff on the ground, or as a picnic blanket when its wet
this video did not change my mind, I will keep taking it with me :)
friggen Bill Nye of camping!! So appreciate the high standard of testing you do here!!
Thanks for another great video, Steven. I had a call with Big Agnes recently, and they told me that I do not need a footprint to stay dry in their tents.
Thanks for the validation for not ordering one just now for my backpacking tent.
I'll still use one when bikepacking as I regularly camp on hard surfaces.
Very nice video, as always! However, I have a few more pro arguments in favour of a footprint.
Cleaning: it's much easier to wash a piece of nylon than a tent floor.
Fly-first-pitch: most freestanding tents can only be pitched rainproof with a suitable footprint.
Waterproofing: you can easily reapply a the waterproof coating of a footprint, not so easily with a tent.
Protect what you have: Many people only have one tent, for which they have saved for a long time. They are probably prepared to protect what they own and carry a few more ounces even if the performance is only 10% better.
That's why I still bring a footprint :)
Nevertheless, a very exciting video, thank you very much!
I've started using a footprint (we call it a groundsheet) again with more multi-day winter and shoulder season hiking (we call it "tramping" here in Aotearoa). I'm not worried about the tent floor in terms of waterproofness or abrasion but a groundsheet makes the vestibule more practical in mud or snow, makes for a cleaner pack down and can double as an extra tarp shelter or clean loadout space if needed. I also like the fact I can do the roll test on a footprint before I pitch a tent to make sure things are level(ish) for sleeping - we don't get a lot of flat camping spots on trails down here so finding a bit of ground that fits your body's sleeping shape and then pitching around it is a valuable art.
I like the flexibility I get from some footprints. One of the reasons I love my Naturehike Cloud Up 2 is that while the footprint is a bit heavy it’s perfect for a footprint/fly only set up for my dog and I. But on trips where bug protection is needed I bring a inside and a tyvek sheet in place of the ground sheet. With the snow skirt fly it’s a solid Colorado 3.5 season tent system with unmatched flexibility at its price. The 20D version is currently on sale at Amazon for $130 w/ the footprint.
I have an MSR tent like the one in the video. I use a tyvek footprint with it, and it allows you to set it up with just the fly. Works great for setting up in a rainstorm. You can put up the rest of the tent in the shelter of the fly.
You are missing the point pal! Im wild camping in the middle of nowhere in Scotland just now and I got this tyvek large underneath my X-mid because some grounds are muddy and a mess or often thorns and other sharp stuff you cannot always see and the most important is to protect my new thermarest xlite as mats are expensive these days...also give me nice covered vestibules to put stuff out there instead on a dirt or grass etc...I also used it today as my sit pad or to lie down when having a hiking break...hope you see that and redo the video lol😂
I like using my tyvak sheet as a footprint mostly just to keep my tent clean. Also I use the tyvak for just sitting on and throwing my gear on when my tent is not up. I keep it on an outside pocket for easy grab and go and pack up.
The main to use a foot print for me is to reduce the amount of abrasive dirt that inevitably will get stuck to the bottom of the tent. This dirt will spread through the rest of the tent when it is packed up between nights.
Cool video, makes sense on the puncture resistance. Only point that *really* comes into play is when the site can't be cleared.
Cheap $10 backpackers tarp from Walmart is what I use. My experience is that it is much easier to clean up after a rain, the mud is mostly on the tarp instead of the tent. Feels less wrong to put a tarp away dirty than the tent. Any other benefits are purely incidental to me. I spend 15-20 nights a year in one.
I find a footprint is a great help reducing condensation if the ground is damp or I pitch on grass. I've got a X-Mid and use a piece of Tyvek covering the entire tent floor including vestabules.
This channel popped up for me as I am an adventure bike camper. I have the luxury of not being too particular with weight but size and packing are essentially the same. I do however use the eno hammock setup. I am curious if it is a weight issue or tree issue on why more people don’t use a hammock setup? I like not having to use a pad and like getting up off the ground.
I sometimes use a tarp folded double under my tent. This really helps insulate the tent floor which becomes significantly less chilly during cold nights.
Fun Video. Loved watching - Thank you.
I always find it interesting when people who live on flat soft ground talk about "cleaning up" their campsite before they put a tent down. I live in the Rocky Mountains. You cannot move every rock from underneath your tent, you're lucky IF you can get a stake into the ground at all and you're not on a significant angle of some kind. It's beautiful country, but you are going to make compromises and that abrasion, puncture risk is real. I've had some very nice tents get holes in the floor after 1-3 uses, < 10 nights and I am fussy about where I sleep. When I backpacked in the Smokey Mountains this wasn't a risk, here - it's inevitable.
I would love to see this test with tyvek or even a mylar blanket - both are very lightweight, cheap, 100% water proof and decently puncture resistant
When camping in a tent I like to use a ground cloth ( I used the 3m (3.2 yards ) of Tyvek 43gsm 1443R Kite Making Material , Durable , Strong , Lightweight and Breathable from Amazon. It's softer and quieter than the Tyvek used in home building. ) No matter where I set it up. The ground cloth is 1 or 2 inches smaller than the bottom of my tent and always under the tent's floor. It keeps the tents bottom clean and without one it will be wet and either dirty or muddy. At times even with it there is a 2 inch wet circumference around the outside , unprotected , tents bottoms edge.
Ive used an ex Bundeswher poncho as a 'footprint' for years now. If you check the ground before pitching your tent you shouldnt need to worry about anything puncturing the ten and when you strike camp, any dirt or wet is only on the footprint and makes packing the actual tent a lot simpler - ! 😅
love your testing - keep up the good work
One issue with a foot print I didn't hear you talk about is what happens when water gets inbetween the foot print and the tent floor. A pretty common mistake when not setting up rain fly and tent correctly
Great video and I love the science you put into your testing methods, watched the tic and mosquito repellent earlier.
I like many others are wondering about the Tyvek ground sheets though and would like to see a new round of tests with that 😀
Great video thank you!
What about cold temperatures coming from the ground? I feel warmer with footprint..
I use my tent foot prints for two primary reasons.
1: in the PNW (🇨🇦 side) I use mine primarily to keep my tent clean due to living in a rain forest. Debris here just stick and are gross due to moisture and humidity, primarily cedar and fir shedding.
2: i have always found the foot prints aids in deployment and retrieval of the tent. Especially holding the corners and a surface to keep the tent clean during stuffing, especially protecting and keeping the lighter weight top fabrics.
One of the biggest benefits for me taking my footprint is to test where I'll be pitching before putting everything up and like many others have mentioned, keeping the tent inner clean is also a big win especially on multi days
2:07 cool. the $60 footprint does protect against puncturing your several hundred dollar tent if you dont do a perfect job of clearing every single last rock and twig before setting up. which is what people use them for. video over.
I like the footprint because you can use it to check to see if your tent will fit in a specific spot. It's so much more coinvent to drag around the footprint to find that perfect spot for your tent long before you start messing with pegs, flys, and poles.
Tbh as I mostly site camp on grass in the UK, I'm only really using something to cover the vestibule area. In a couple of my tents, that is the ground sheet.
This helps with the inevitable mud, as well as helps with evapotranspiration.
But in most of my trekking pole tents, that's my sitmat (a 3/4 length 1/8 foam pad).
Dirt supposedly reduces waterproofness over time, and I don't like it on the bottom of my tent anyway, so I usually use some form of groundsheet. Mine is usually smaller than the tent floor itself, and just covers under my sleeping pad, which is where I find moisture accumulates most, and combines with the dirt to get really "ground" into the tent fabric. My go-to groundsheet right now is a cut-open trash compactor bag.
Depends on where you going to setup your tent to use a footprint. Environment, weather, soil situation etc... Cheap canvas is work as well, if you can afford you can also get those expensive one.
Love the effort you put into the test in this video. Entertaining and informative as always!
Definitely worth it. The bottom of my Durston x-mid 2 got torn on my first trip.
The puncture resistance on tough grounds and muddy grounds is why it's worth it to me. It doesn't matter much when I've got a good site, but, uh, I don't always.
I have a Big Agnes single-person tent I bought in December 2005. It's in pretty rough shape now, but it's lasted me over 18 years, although my usage was pretty light, like 4 to 5 nights a year, so let's say ~80 nights of "normal" (i.e. standard campsite) camping (plus another 12 nights being hauled around Africa on the trip I purchased the tent for, back in 2006). The material of the tent fly is breaking down now (that's what I mean by "rough shape"), likely from UV exposure and heat, but the mesh that the top part of the tent body is made of has held up well (there are a couple of small holes, as you'd expect over that amount of time) as has the bottom of the tent. I do use a cheap blue tarp under my tent though, and I think that has served me well over the years, keeping the bulk of the dirt and debris on the ground from touching the actual tent. And it cost me like, 20 bucks. Maybe.
Anyway, I'm probably going to purchase a new tent sometime in the next few months. Oh, and the biggest lesson I've taken from my current tent (vs. the tents of other people I know) is that aluminum poles are a must. I've seen so many fiberglass and composite poles splinter and/or break, but my current tent has aluminum poles and they are pristine. That's far more critical to me than a footprint.
I no longer use floored shelters. I have a backpacking tent, that USED to have a floor, but I got rid of the floor (and the mesh inner)...to save weight. Now, I just use the 6 mil plastic sheet, that I used to use as a floor saver ( for that tent)...as the tent "floor". It's already cut to shape and size. When I use a tarp for shelter (most of the time) - I just use a 2 mil plastic sheet (cheap dropcloth) cut down to fit. Works just fine.
I will never go back to floored shelters. As such, I don't have to worry about condensation in my shelter(s)...because I have plenty of ventilation. If any condensation forms on the inside of the fabric, it just drips off the edges (of the shelter fabric) directly onto the ground.
And, the "floors" used for my shelters are cheap and disposable. (I do NOT throw them away, though...I RECYCLE the material.)
As others have said, I think having a clean tent bottom might be just enough reason for me to want a footprints. But as always, I'm a camper, not a hiker, so weight of gear isn't an issue for me. Also, way to really nerd out this week. I mean, we had to break out some PVC pipe, bicycle pump, and an orbital sander? This is the kind of scientific experimentation I can get down with.
If you can carry it take it, if you can't leave it at home. When it rains, it actually holds water against your tent floor instead of allowing it to go into the ground. Condensation comes from the inside not the out so less breathability means more. I only take mine if i know in camping on rough ground or mud.
A ground sheet only holds water against your tent floor if it's too big or improperly placed and catches rain or you pitch in a bad spot where rain collects and runs over it. If a ground sheet is cut and placed right and you don't pitch in a depression you will never have this problem. Condensation is generated both inside and outside the tent from body heat, poor ventilation, wet ground, high humidity and pitching near water sources. A ground sheet doesn't matter one way or the other, but if it's large enough to cover the vestibule area it can be helpful for reducing condensation from ground moisture.
Love love love your scientific approach to testing. Would love to see if the conclusion changes with dyneema bathtub floor material.
I originally was going to test multiple types of tent floors and foot prints including Dynemma but opted not to for the sake of time
@@MyLifeOutdoors the scammers are starting their crap again, got an impersonator on my comment
+1 for rerunning this set of tests against a sheet of Tyvek and a sheet of Polycro, and then evaluating their performance versus weight/cost. I suspect Polycro is the king of footprints: (very) low cost, very little weight, very hardwearing, completely waterproof, very difficult to puncture. I actually leave my polycro footprint fitted all the time, it only adds 50 grammes. Also feels slippery so it makes cleaning easier and the smooth surface means water, ie condensation from the soil moisture, just runs off in the morning. A quick shake and it's dry. As many have said here, this is a big deal in NW Europe, humidity will kill you here.
Loving the home lab and the nod to Fortnine, BTW.
My two main reasons for using a ground cloth is controlling the dirt/mud on my single wall tent and being able to do a fly first pitch with my dual wall tents.
I always bring a tyvek footprint. I often get to camp later with little to no sunlight, so it's just a precaution in case I miss a prickly thing when pitching my tent. It also quickly gives me a clean-ish surface to have lunch or take a break on.
Although one does not place a significant static load on a tent floor when standing, I rarely find my self standing in tents. And your 8 psi load does not address the dynamic loads exerted by feet or other parts of the body. Dynamic loading of a heal can easily exert more than 20 psi, and as I spend very little time standing in tents I do spend a significant amount of time on my knees.
A quick measurement of my bony knees on a pliable surface (modeling clay) resulted in contact area of ~2.5 in. sq. and a load of about 75 lbs per knee. That would result in a static floor load of about 30 psi. Plunking down on one knee after a long day could easily exert many times that load.
When backpacking I rarely carry a Footprint, but when dealing with very rocky locations or when camping with kids, regardless of how well we attempted to clean the site we found the floors of the tents took a significant beating. Repair tape was usually at hand, but footprints became the norm. However, we never spent more than ~$20 for floor protection, as there are many very good DIY options.
We also found that floor protectors left us with cleaner tents, as we could easily shake off most dirt and moisture and fold the footprint to trap any remaining dirt and moisture. Our DIY floor protectors also came in handy as sunshades and wind breaks among other uses.
I noticed the fortnine reference! I love motorbikes too! Our worries is seepage after a few years not tenting on well draining surface. The water can seep in. I notice on kayak and canoe guided trips the tents can vary but are quite robust. We are thinking just using a tent tarp cover, over the tent and one for the cooking area. This would be for canoe trips not back backing. What do you think? Roman from Squamish
I camp in my tent about 35+ nights a year, so my tent does see use and is now over 12 years old. I do use a footprint and it has saved my floor from an eager varmin that chewed through the footprint in 2 spots.
Otherwise, the primary reason I use the footprint is for cleanliness. A lot of times, I am setting up on bare ground and if water gets under the tent the mud is on the footprint which is much easier to clean up at home than to clean the whole tent.
Interesting research. I'm interested in how DCF lines up with this as it is supposed to be less puncture resistant but higher hydro-static head.
On most of my tents I have the manufacturer foot print, but on one of my one-person light weight REI tents I made my own out of 3m (3.2 Yards) of Tyvek 43gsm 1443R Kitemaking Material | Durable, Strong, Lightweight, Breathable. Much cheaper, very light weight and probably more durable. Also allowed me to cut a custom shape that extends the foot print into the vestibule area.
One benefit of a footprint not noted here: The FP on my Kaitum II extends into the dual vestibules. This means I can haul my pack under cover, but still outside the inner tent, and not have it sit in the dirt....or a muddy puddle should it rain.....overnight. Moreover, Hilleberg rigs it so it can all be pitched in a single go. Fly, inner, and floor all lay out at once and are integrated. They can be separated of course if you want to divide weight between partners. All in all it's a pretty functional system....but the fact remains most footprints are a touch pricey for the materials and manufacture involved.
I just use Tyvek for cottage tents or when I want to save money. Mainly for puncture/mud resistance.
Brilliant assessment and presentation of the cogent points. Many thanks!
This was so fascinating thank you. I have always suspected these results!
Great video! I love the scientific approach!
i can't believe i'm watching home-made scientific product testing videos, but I LOVE IT. I think i've commented before, but these kinds of methodical testing videos are super enjoyable and give me huge amounts of respect for your opinions (EVIDENCE-BASED!!!) and they're just fun to watch. More bloopers please!
Nice F9 reference. Your gear testing content is true quality.
Can I point out that terrain makes a big difference. I've done a fair bit of camping in the high Sierra and my footprint has eaten a lot of random granite scuffing and scraping. And that damage lowers water resistance (which, caked on dirt does too). Think about your vid about rain gear meeting saturation. That tent floor works the same way. It's not just hydro pressure.
I think you make some great points.... but I do think the caveat is "take into account your terrain".
Evidently someone's never tramped in the EU or NZ, because a) gorse and in NZ only - b) matagouri. Both of which have spines that can be a pain to see in grass and will puncture less tough tent floors. So if you have one of those "light weight" tents, you need it, or you will get punctures. And let's face it, after a long day's walk, you're not always going to have the energy/wakefulness to do a site check, especially if it's pissing down. Which it usually does in island climates...
Learnt this lesson the fun way after post viral fatigue (tramping post a flu is not always the best idea) lead to me taking until 10pm to reach the Cass end of the Cass-Lagoon Saddle track, so had to pull the Exped Sirius II tent out and put it down. After a crap sleep (victim of the dodgy airproof mattress fabric issue) felt something poking me through the tent floor and the flat Exped mat, so after packing it up, checked the ground, and lo there was a couple of branches of matagouri. Fortunately the Sirius II has a tough floor, so no damage, but I suspect a lightweight without a footprint or tarp would have been damaged.
Mainly because I've had matagouri spines go through leather sports shoes and easily pushed it through nylon backpack canvas as a test.
So yeah, in certain environments you will need a foot print/tarp if you have a tent with a less tough floor. Or it will get punctured.
Also water proof levels matter more if the ground's sodden/swampy, but most of us are going to avoid pitching a tent in such a place if we can help it.
I can see a footprint being useful if you have a freestanding tent and you’re able to set up the fly first while it’s raining and then set the interior tent up. And only bring it if you’re expecting some rain. I love watching your videos, you did a great job. I do have one question. might seem dumb, but I have a static V sleeping pad that’s 1.3 R-value and I have a Ozark trail foam pad that is R2 and if I combine those together, would it really be 3.3 R? But what about the cold air hitting the sides of your sleeping pad that’s on top That is a 1.3 wouldn’t that decrease the R value? For example, if I put 2 Ozark Trail foam, pads down, which will give me a 4 R and then I put a 3 inches thick but has no insulation. Let’s say it has an R value of 1 on top of that so that would make it 5 R. But if the cold air is coming from the side of the 3 inch Air pad that only has a R 1 wouldn’t you get cold? If this is true, then would it be warmer if I put the foam pad on top since it has the most R-value then the static V on the bottom, which sounds crazy😂 Maybe I’m just overthinking it.
Lovely to see FortNine getting a mention here!:)
Thank you. I dont need a footprint but that shows what a tarp/ground tarp can handle
I love your outside the box testing methods for gear. I always use a footprint for the peace of mind and to keep the bottom of my tent clean from the dirt/mud. I do want to try a Tyvek ground sheet to see if I like it any more than the overpriced manufacturers footprints.
I'm impressed you didn't visibly jump during the water proof tests