The key to understanding the first two The Tony Williams Lifetime albums is in the artwork of (Turn It On), which is an exact copy of The Velvet Underground's White Light/White Heat album. It's jazz fused with proto-punk rock, not progressive rock, and even Tony's way of singing mimics Lou Reed's iconic heroin-snarl.
Thanks Andy for participating in this shows. Your perspective and comments as a drummer really added to the depth of the discussion. And as always, thanks to Pete for providing his viewers with a wide range of music discussion and guests while providing consistently great content to watch.
Thank You John...this is a new thing for me. I'm a music fan like everyone else and it's been interesting talking like this. Every band I have been in this sort of thing has gone on on the tour bus or in the van. Mad that we can do it in public now and people want to watch it!
Tony William had it all. He spent years studying Max, Philly and all those gus and nailed it. Tony made t all his own. I love everything he ever played on. The Mile 2nd quintet is some of the best music ever recored! Thanks for respecting Tony, guys!
In 1989 I read an interview with Jack Bruce in this free magazine I used to get called “Making Music” and in it, he said some fascinating things about jazz fusion. For example, he said that in the end, jazz fusion failed because the jazz players felt that they were playing beneath themselves by incorporating rock and they looked down on it. He also stated that the greatest aggregation he had ever played in was Lifetime and he mentioned who was in the band ~ John McLaughlin, Larry Young {whom at that time, I didn’t remember} and Tony Williams {I’d seen McLaughlin and Williams live}. I had never heard of Lifetime but the line up intrigued me. So I went looking for their stuff which couldn’t be found in the mainstream record shops but which would turn up occasionally in the second-hand stores. The first two I found were “Believe it” and “The old bum’s rush,” two more vastly different albums one could not hope to find ! Those two albums were only 2 or so years apart but they were essentially two completely different bands. “Believe it” had an interesting line-up and ticks all the boxes. All 6 songs are good and accessible. They sound like a jazz-rock outfit with the guitar and electric piano doing what one would expect the guitar and electric piano to do. Tony Newton is solid on bass and sound-wise, it’s well produced, unlike most of their albums up till then. And thankfully, there’s no singing from Tony Williams {although when I first got their albums, I was spared that future shock !}. One can have no complaints about this jazz fusion. And yet I do. Many years ago, I was discussing the song “Three times a lady” with a friend. It was a song I should have loved but somehow, never did. There was always something missing for me from that song but I could never put my finger on quite what it was until that day my friend described it as “too classic to be a classic.” It’s almost like Lionel Richie had set out to write the classic love song rather than just a love song. And as a result it sounded like tons of love song clichés were thrown in. That’s exactly how I feel about “Believe it.” It’s clichéd. It’s almost cookie-cutter, textbook jazz fusion. Don’t get me wrong, I truly really dig the album and I wouldn’t part with it for any money. I’m a fan of all of the songs {especially “Wildlife”} and the playing and the solos and the riffs {such as they are} and the moves…...but it is such a safe album. There’s no daring to it. It’s almost as though by that stage, Tony Williams had been so beaten down by having chosen to remain edgy and “out there” but had gotten nowhere, that he thought that going the more accessible mainstream fusion route would bring him actual success. The funny thing is that “Believe it” is wonderfully consistent. It’s more consistent than albums that Return to Forever, Mahavishnu Orchestra, Weather Report, Isotope, Jeff Beck, Gateway, Collin Walcott, Jan Hammer, Joachim Kuhn, Jean-Luc Ponty, Eberhardt Weber, 11th House and others were coming out with at the time, yet the best of it does not equal the best on the inconsistent albums of those others, in my opinion. And crazily, though it should, to my ears and tastes, be a far superior album to “The old bum’s rush”…..it isn’t ! While I do agree that “Believe it” sounds like a band playing together in the same room and enjoying the grooves they set, they sound like a band that has set out to not push boundaries. Almost like they wanted to record the album in a day, and could do so because they were well rehearsed and used to playing with each other. Whereas “The old bum’s rush” sounds like a band playing together in the same room and enjoying the grooves they set…….but the room is cold, damp and smelly, rats are running about the place, unexpectedly, bits of plaster are falling off the wall when it gets too loud, the band is stoned or drunk or both, hungry too, neighbours are being raided by narcotic agencies and hoods are chucking their wares through the windows of the room the band are playing in ! It really is all over the place. But although a couple of the songs are pure trash and although there are some really irritating timbres and sounds and although there could hardly be said to be good songwriting here, the album succeeds in sounding fresh, exciting, insane, daring and it is accessible. I can hum any of the tunes or parts of them. Even Tony’s singing on “Changing Man” is passable. Tequila’s vocals throughout are lovely and are quite unlike just about any I’ve heard in jazz fusion. Indeed, the band’s funky take on fusion and the way they channel the Parliament/Funkadelic vibe’n’humour {“The Boodang” is so ridiculous that it’s hilarious, yet is a brilliant track} is pretty unique and overall, justifies the experiment. Having your Dad come to play on one of the songs is such a Tony Williams move ! In those days, “Uncompromising” was Tony’s middle name. It’s a paradoxical album, in that it sounds way out there, yet normal and song oriented, yet underneath there’s some strange moves afoot. It is real jazz fusion. I don’t know what was in his or the band’s minds when they did this album, but whatever it was, I can think of many artists down the years that could have done with some of it !
Love all the shows Pete but anytime I see that you’ve got a show about jazz or jazz musicians it makes my day a whole lot sweeter. As a fan of classic rock, metal and jazz, your channel is my one stop shop for all things music!
Another album that could have come into the conversation was the 1970 Larry Coryell album "Spaces" - with John McLaughlin, Billy Cobham, Chick Corea, and Miroslav Vitous. Also see Mclaughlin and Santana playing material from T.W.Lifetime etc. on the Invitation To Illumination DVD, with Cindy Blackman Santana on drums.
Pete, Have Mr. Edwards on absolutely anytime. I had been looking forward to this for a while and it didn’t disappoint. I feel that Pete got great classic-era fusion conversation going all throughout. I would welcome anything resembling drumming conversation with Andy in the co-captain’s chair and I’m thrilled to compare Cobham lists when that video comes out. Placing this one in the SoT classics folder.
These two guys together Andy and Pete are superb analysts!!!!! I have a special place for Ego because that was my introduction to Tony way back in '72. Yes, I agree with Andy and Pete that it is fragmented and uninspiring, but again for me, this was an album I bought at 12 years old. That said for me it's : 7) Bums Rush, 6) Million Dollar Legs, 5) Ego, 4) Joy of Flying, 3) Turn It Over, 2) Emergency, 1) Believe It.
1- Believe it Off topic but whatever : 2- Eric Dolphy : Out to Lunch 3- Miles Davis : Filles de Kilimandjaro 4- Andrew Hill : Point of Departure 5- Stanley Clarke : Stanley Clarke 6- Herbie Hancock : Maiden Voyage 7- Miles Davis : Miles Smiles
For me guys...The Joy Of Flying really just continues to be one of the most complete and touching albums Ever! The rock hard jazz fusion and mix of funk licks on his yellow Traps....Gretsch I think....... the choice of songs and array of musicians as well as the personality of the album NEVER gets old.
Great show guys. Tony Williams was absolutely one of my favorite jazz/fusion drummers. I can’t help but disagree with the negativity about the singing though. Tony was using his voice as another instrument in his composition. Whether the critic finds it good or bad quality, it fleshed out the composition for Tony. I think that’s all that matters here; he was the artist. He lives on forever through the beauty of his works.
Thanks for this Pete and Andy. Tony fan here from the late 60s forward, I heard all the Lifetime albums as they were released. Some insight: Tony typically did two albums with a lineup/formula, then would purposely do a polarized pendulum swing in the opposite direction to avoid being repetitive and pigeonholed. This is why he followed the manic balls-out heavy fusion shredding of Emergency & Turn it Over with the uber chill, UN-fusion, vibey EGO, which I strongly disliked at the time. BUT, watch TH-camr Matt Hughen''s stellar live footage of the EGO band and behold one of the most unique and truly progressive bands of the '70s who were doing something totally their own; highly adventurous and as non-cliched, non-formulaic as it gets. Reviewer Stewart Mason called EGO "easily the weirdest record the Tony Williams Lifetime ever released," and wrote: "Ego is an experimental blend of post-hard bop jazz and the spacier end of psychedelic rock... parts of the album sound like Atom Heart Mother-era Pink Floyd." EGO was a one-off followed by another one-off, The Old Bum's Rush, which was a partial return to a relatively high(er) energy approach, with Tony's then-wife Laura 'Tequila' Logan singing; loose, funky, and "progressive" in a genre-defying way, but not a shredder fusion record. Tony followed up by keeping Tequila on vocals & Webster Lewis on keys, bringing back Jack Bruce on bass (but no vocals) and introducing Allan Holdsworth to re-introduce the shred last heard on Turn it Over. These 1974 sessions were never released but circulate, including here on YT, as a bootleg. Almost as weird as EGO in its own way, but radically different because the opening track is a return to flame-throwing, guitar-driven fusion with---get this--- a nearly NINE MINUTE solo by Holdsworth which kicks in at about the two minute mark after Tequila rap-sings about the baby (Tony's?) in her womb; from start to finish it's one big WTF. The rest of the album rocks with the distinct flavor of a 70's "black activism" vibe ala Angela Davis with Holdsworth ripping it up. Tony then got rid of everyone except Holdsworth and recruited Alan Pasqua on keyboards and Tony Newton on bass to form the New Lifetime, once again returning to incendiary but melodic fusion for "Believe It" (1975) which put Holdsworth on the map for most people. The improvisational interplay between everyone on Believe It is a masterclass and was Holdsworth's favorite of all his recordings; the lack of this improvisational interplay is why he left both UK and Bruford's band, feeling stifled by the strict compositional formula he was expected to adhere to. The New Lifetime's follow-up, Million Dollar Legs, a watered-down and prettied-up recasting of Believe It with an attempted "radio friendly" vocal track thrown in, proved too much of a compromise for Holdsworth who bailed shortly into the supporting tour and was replaced by Marlon Graves. For me, all of the Lifetime albums, even the uniformly weird EGO (watch the live video!), have their unique charms. But for innovation and overall listenability I'll take Emergency, Turn It Over (especially the Bill Laswell version), and Believe It.
Speaking of Drummers - Ed Cassidy of SPIRIT ( quite the story regarding his and Spirit's ) - may we rank the SPIRIT albums one show please Pete? Many thanks from Oz !
What a wonderful guest and conversation. Informative and educational grounded in Constructive critique displaying a deep knowledge of the music. Chapeau. These kinds of dialogues is one the best reasons to subscribe to SOT.
I love Tony (rip), but still i move a bit off topic with the mentioning of Holdsworth on «Forty Reasons» the Chad Wackerman album. Just mindblowing. Anyhow. Great episode.
Hope there will be some discussion on "The Lost Wildlife Sessions - Stockholm Sweden 1974". It was unfortunate that an album was never officially released - would have served as a logical bridge between what was heard on "The Old Bum's Rush" and what would later be heard on "Believe It".
Everybody should check out the Stockholm sessions. Allan's playing is surprisingly funky and bluesy on that date. Also, there are loads of bootleg tapes from the New Lifetime band from all kinds of US gigs on TH-cam. Such a great fusion band..
Great episode here, Pete. BTW I thought you were Danny Carey for a second! Just saw him the other night with Vai, Belew and Levin. Hope you do a commentary on this tour.
I think what we need is a 'Best of Tony Williams' double cd, which draws together the best music he made, opening it up for people to hear. This could be great, imposing 'dicipline' on the stuff he managed to record.
Andy and Pete. What a great video from two people I absolutely love and admire. Thanks guys. been listening a lot to both channels and it's great to hear you guys talk about fusion like that. It's just crazy how every conversation about fusion derails to a discussion on how great and under rated Holdsworth was. It's that guilt which eats us all, knowing how neglected his music was during his lifetime. It's pure guilt. Guilt and shame.
The story of JM teaching Jimmy Page is legend. Apparently, JM taught Jimmy the opening chords to 'My Funny Valentine'. Strangely enough, a few years later, Jimmy writes Stairway to Heaven which shares the same chromatic chords as My Funny Valentine :)
In 1980, four members of Magma did a fusion band called Fusion (yep) with Christian Vander on drums, Jannick Top on bass, Didier Lockwood on violin and Benoit Widemann on keys. Jannick Top released a CD of a gig in Paris 1980 with them covering Fred and Going Back Home from The Lifetime. Amazing stuff.
Love your shows Pete!!! You guys should try picking one song from each studio release from some of these bands who have big catalogs. I have created some play lists that way with bands like Kiss, priest, and so on. You come up with some interesting mixes and it's hard to choose for sure. Keep up the good work and take care.
Though I said I hadn't remembered Larry Young, I must have had some idea of who he was because I was a serious lover of the posthumous Hendrix album "Nine to the universe" on which he appears. I also really dug "Bitches Brew" although to be fair, I wouldn't have taken much notice of him in the credits at that time.
If ever a band defined the word ‘enigma’, it was Lifetime. The actual definition is “someone or something that's puzzling, mysterious, or difficult to make sense of.” That sums up that band like few other words authentically could. They didn’t invent jazz rock, but they were in at its dawn and Tony Williams had been leaning his ear towards rock and pop for a number of years. When he was playing with Miles, circa ‘64/’65, he felt the band ought to be covering Beatle songs. He had also been part of an experimental group of jazz players that included Mike Nock who formed The Fourth way, a vitally important but utterly forgotten fusion outfit that existed before Lifetime or Miles’ introduction of electricity as a standard part of his units. In some ways, Lifetime’s musical principles and subsequent career mirrored that of the Fourth Way ~ multiracial band, uncommon instrumental line up, tremendous invention, arcane directions and albums that weren’t always cottoned onto by the listening public and eventual implosion. But Lifetime released more albums, were way more diverse and were far more of a puzzlement ~ and still are ! Its interesting that Williams had an ear for the Beatles and had played with Nock; equally interesting is that both he and John McLaughlin were on the sessions for Miles’ “In a silent way.” Interesting, because where Miles’ album is a calm, sedate and relaxed outing, Lifetime’s debut, “Emergency !” is anything but !! It’s almost as though he, John and Larry Young were seeking to blow “In a silent way” completely out of the waters and signal where this emerging jazz-rock fusion should be going. “Emergency !” is one of the great albums of 1969, described by Rolling Stone as “a giant step into the future” and the very fact that it was a double album bears out what Stuart Nicholson was getting at when he said of Tony, “He was bursting with things to say and new ways to say them” while describing the music as “Manic and desperate….” Although 52 years on it’s easy to see the songs as quite tame compared with some of rock and even jazz’s more excessive noises, in truth it’s a sizzling album. Yes, there are some moments that are actually comparatively straight-ahead jazz….kind of…..but these are few and far between ! All three players come across as pretty insane and out of control in terms of restraint and that really enhances the music, as does the poor recording quality. Apparently, the engineer overloaded the recording levels and gave a distortion to the recording that John McLaughlin may have hated, but which adds to the excitement. Despite Mclaughlin’s disdain for the sound, I don’t think it’s unfair to opine that without Lifetime, there would have been no Mahavishnu Orchestra and without them, there wouldn’t have been Return to Forever’s electric incarnation. Or at least, not in the same way. Lifetime did have two major drawbacks though, and the seeds of both are on the debut. One is that they explored so many directions that people just couldn’t keep up {although that’s why I love their music, for the most part}. And the second is…..Tony’s singing. Without pulling any punches, singing was not Tony Williams’ strong suit ! At times, his voice is one of the worst I’ve ever heard {coming just ahead of Yoko Ono, Sid Vicious and Telly Savalas}. He’s the kind of singer that should have maybe had one vocal per album and a producer that pushed him into giving his best performance. Unfortunately, he approached singing in the same way he approached drumming and jazz rocking. His willingness to experiment and abandon norms worked wonders for those two. It did not for vocals ! But at least his singing on “Emergency !” doesn’t fall into the realm of “horrendous” as it was to do on subsequent albums. It’s passable here and doesn’t leave my nerves crawling and me scratching like I’ve got chickenpox. The same cannot be said for “Turn it over.” This is the aggregation that Jack Bruce felt was the best he ever played in. And it should be the greatest jazz-rock album in existence. It has everything going for it. Bruce coming in on bass and [should be] vocals. McLaughlin becoming more varied and upping the savage electricity. Young doing things with the organ that it simply was not polite to do in jazz and frowned on in rock. And Tony Williams ! The album cover back is a whizz ! The opener “To whom it may concern” is the living definition of “out there.” There’s no bass on the track and it is one of the heaviest pieces of music on record. Then there’s “Vuelta Abajo” and what the heck can I say about that ? If there is such a thing as heavy metal jazz {and there are a number of pieces that can fit such a definition}, this is its standard bearer. It gets so intense at points that one almost needs oxygen to listen all the way through. “Right on” rips through the atmosphere and is a weird recording but I love it in the right mood. It really should be the greatest jazz rock album ever, it should certainly be Lifetime’s. But for me, it isn’t. Tony’s singing wrecks those songs he sings on {his performance on “This time, this song” should have had him jailed ! It turns an innovative piece into twaddle and “Once, I loved” is, in a word, horrible} and I find some of the other songs surprisingly ‘meh’ after the debut and some of the great hefty outpourings on this. Songs like “Big Nick” and “Allah be praised” just come over as a re-tread of some of the pieces on “Emergency !” but without any real fire to keep one pinned by the ears. It seems better pieces were left off the album. It’s such an irony to me that this album contains, in my opinion, 2 of the best songs they did {the 2 parts of “To whom it may concern” and “Vuelta Abajo”}, but is their worst album overall.
Wonderful podcast and discussion. Everything here is spot on, thanks. Personally i am tilted to my old time friend, Allan Holdsworth, can't help: Chatted with Tony Williams, once, same with Alan Pasqua,... had a great night of Hollywood fun with Tony Williams, at Allan's opening IOU show, The Roxy (Eddie Van Halen, too),... so all in all, Yes describing 1975, 1976, band... Believe It, Million Dollar Legs... wrapping up on my few words (we could all collectively write a book, huh?)... perspective: Jean-Luc Ponty, pre-Holdsworth (1977)... Ponty was already flying, and, flying high on the tailwinds of Zappa, Mahavishnu, etc! Fast forward, connecting dots ------ 1975 Believe It, Tony Williams. 1976 Million.... Tony Williams. 1976 Enigmatic Ocean, Ponty. ALLAN HOLDSWORTH 🔥🎸💥. yes yes ... all advanced to 1978. UK. UK. (epic progressive) 1979. Bill Bruford Group.... Gong.... etc etc etc.... then I.O.U. JAZZ FUSION HISTORY. MADE. LEMONADE. thank you gentlemen !!!!!!!!!
Wow, interesting discussion and also my own personal surprise that the EGO album seems to be so inaccessable (emotionally and sonically) for these two gentlemen. To me, EGO is my number 1 Lifetime album, because it was kind of the only album where the band sound and the music seemed more important that single players shining through. It was really a different approach as any other album, a bigger ensemble, percussionists who tempted Tony to probably play less than in trio or quartet settings. Of course, Believe It and the first two Lifetime stand for themselves, in their own category I suppose. But EGO: Ca. 45, Urchins of Shermese (some stellar drumming here!) There Comes a Time, etc...how this can be rated behind something like Million Dollar Legs....leaves me puzzled to say the least. But we all are different, so it is like it is. I like the fact that they admitted that the existing live tapes paint another picture for them of the EGO Lifetime and that it is probably the production of the album thats turning them off. And I am not alone, with Vinnie Calaiuta also saying that the EGO album changed his life, so there you go. Anyway, thanks again for this great video!
I personally love Ego, and overall prefer those first lineups with Larry Young. My rankings would be 1. Emergency, 2. Turn It Over, 3. Ego, 4. Believe It. The other albums drop off significantly after that. And I love Allan Holdsworth but my favorite iterations of the band were the initial ones. And for as much attention as McLaughlin received in that group, and (later for a brief period) Jack Bruce, there’s a quote out there (might have been from Tony Williams himself) that said “the real genius of the band was Larry Young.” All the best.
Tony Williams, Max Roach, Elvin Jones and Art Blakey are my absolute drum heroes! Then we have Ginger Baker, Mitch Mitchell and Bonzo. Of course, Max Roach was the hero of them all!
I have the same two on one collection with Believe It and Million Dollar Legs that Pete has. Reach for it often mainly to bask in the genius that was Allan Holdsworth oh yeah the drummer what’s his name is pretty good also. LOL
Thanks for interesting discussion. I have to say I've never been able to get into Lifetime. I prefer McLaughlin (e.g. Devotion) and Holdsworth albums. When I looked through my own collection, I have no Lifetime. I do have Trio of Doom (Tony Williams, McLaughlin and Jaco)...its OK. Re. edgy guitar heavy albums, a current favourite is "News from the Jungle" by Jeff Lee Johnson (finally with correct cover artwork on Tidal).
Arcana 'Arc of the Testimony' as briefly mentioned here is Tony Williams at his most experimental & savage. The last recording of his career, it is right up there with Axiom label mate Sonny Sharrock's "Ask the Ages" (Sonny's last album as well) as a 1-2 punch of modern day fusion that are down right SCARY. Both albums feature Pharoah Sanders on sax and Bill Laswell's spacious production. These albums are where fusion's past meets the future and are exceptionally breathtaking listening experiences - not for the faint of heart.
The only one I have is Believe It, which I bought after hearing 'Fred'. That's the New Tony Williams Lifetime, strictly speaking. Good record but haven't explored further, so far.
They mentioned a few different versions in the discussion... you might like this one too... th-cam.com/video/kZCXRKkkAfE/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=AnIntroductionToEasternEurope%2CEuropeanFunk%26Grooves
@@neilloughran4437 That version was a little laid back. The Rhodes was great, the vocal "harmonizing DIDN'T resonate with me. Tony's playing is impeccable as ever. I appreciate you sharing. You may have already it, there is a live version from 1977,look up "Tony Williams Live Rare 1977... Great version!
That album is up there with Miles and Coltrane in terms of improvisation. Sometimes I don't think Zappa gets his just deserts for the serious musician he was, because he made comedy songs. But that album is one of my favourite albums of all time.
“Ego” is one of those albums that made me want to fly out to the USA, kick Tony Williams’ backside….and hug him and buy him dinner at the same time ! It is one of the most ying and yang albums I have. It’s magnificent. And it’s awful because of the singing. It’s subtle. And it’s over the top and way “out there.” It’s thoughtful. And it shows signs of sheer insanity. It’s inventive. But it is not inclusive. It’s a big middle finger to the listener. Yet it is also trying hard to win the listener over. It is an album of such contradiction. The 3 percussion pieces are boring and struggle to bear repeat listenings. Despite John McLaughlin saying of Williams: “When Lifetime started, Tony was already radical. I loved Tony because he was free, he was a real free spirit and he had new concepts of how to play drums. I loved that. When we started playing, within a couple of months I had to get a big amp and trade in my hollow body for a solid body, otherwise the hollow body guitar freaks out with high volume. Tony was always loud and strong because he loved rock’n’roll” this isn’t a loud raucous album and the drums and percussion on their own don’t really inspire. “Some hip drum shit” just about manages to keep some interest. However, when they are in conjunction with Ron Carter {bass} Ted Dunbar {guitar} and Larry Young, they’re in a league of their own. Dunbar is no Johnny Mac in terms of his electric tone. His tone feels almost like a backward step from where the jazz based thing had been going for the previous 5 years {and assisted in no small measure by the likes of Hendrix and Clapton} and where it would continue to go. But it’s strangely appropriate here and really contributes to the menacing feel of the songs. The songs are actually creepy. Yet there are some of my favourite moments in fusion here. A song like “Two worlds” exemplifies the frustration that is “Ego.” I’m told that it’s Jack Bruce singing on this. Well, if it is, he’s doing his best to sound like Tony ~ not something to be recommended ! The vocal is irritating beyond irritation Yet the music is superb and otherworldly. The way the music sees the song out is classic and perplexing Lifetime. “Lonesome Wells” is similar. A wonderful tune that meanders in all kinds of bizarre directions with Larry Young’s brilliant organ very prominent. But Williams’ awful vocal derails what should be a fusion masterpiece. In the past, Larry Young’s organ sound could be really skin crawling but on this album, he chooses appropriate and accessible sounds and ironically, this is his best sounding workout in Lifetime. “Circa 45” thankfully spares us any singing and encapsulates so well the creepy feeling that is in so many of the songs. “Mom and Dad” does likewise ~ indeed, both these songs could easily be part of the soundtrack to a horror movie. There are actually times when Tony’s singing is passable and “There comes a time” is one of those times. Instrumentally, it’s a great song and is going great guns when that voice comes in. But for once, the meanness of the lyric is well borne out in the vocal. The congas in this song are also magnificent. The percussion in Lifetime were an added plus, if you ask me. The painting of him on the cover is best summed up by the track “The urchins of Shermese.” If you look at the top of the gatefold and his head in the picture and all the things coming out of it, this track is the musical encapsulation of that. It’s so Lifetime, starting off nicely, yet with this disturbing edge that hints at there being something weird just around the corner, then Ka~boom ! The piece goes crazy, but in a controlled way. There are cross rhythms and odd time signatures on the album that don’t seem that way until you try to dance to the songs that have them ! I like this album a lot but it carries flaws that ensure anything but a smooth listen. But really, until “Believe it,” consistency was not a word one would use in the same sentence with Lifetime, except for that brilliant first album.
In the 1980s Tony Williams did not suddenly become a composer. Tony stopped performing for several years in the early 1980s and moved to Marin County when he attended the Berkeley School of Music to study composition. It's interesting that you are a Tony Williams fan and do not know this!
Tony wanted to keep McLaughlin and young but the band sat still for months at a time .His management thought no one would like it so they didn’t advertise or push touring so John went to mahavishnu and tony regrouped and marched on
Ego IMO is one of the worst albums of the fusion genre, no consistency and no real point at all. Turn it Over, on the other hand, has a crazy intensity, a wild album.
The key to understanding the first two The Tony Williams Lifetime albums is in the artwork of (Turn It On), which is an exact copy of The Velvet Underground's White Light/White Heat album. It's jazz fused with proto-punk rock, not progressive rock, and even Tony's way of singing mimics Lou Reed's iconic heroin-snarl.
I saw Lifetime in November, 1970 (Williams; Bruce; McLaughlin; Young), and to this day they are the loudest band I've ever heard.
Thanks Andy for participating in this shows. Your perspective and comments as a drummer really added to the depth of the discussion. And as always, thanks to Pete for providing his viewers with a wide range of music discussion and guests while providing consistently great content to watch.
Thank You John...this is a new thing for me. I'm a music fan like everyone else and it's been interesting talking like this. Every band I have been in this sort of thing has gone on on the tour bus or in the van. Mad that we can do it in public now and people want to watch it!
Tony William had it all. He spent years studying Max, Philly and all those gus and nailed it. Tony made t all his own. I love everything he ever played on. The Mile 2nd quintet is some of the best music ever recored! Thanks for respecting Tony, guys!
In 1989 I read an interview with Jack Bruce in this free magazine I used to get called “Making Music” and in it, he said some fascinating things about jazz fusion. For example, he said that in the end, jazz fusion failed because the jazz players felt that they were playing beneath themselves by incorporating rock and they looked down on it. He also stated that the greatest aggregation he had ever played in was Lifetime and he mentioned who was in the band ~ John McLaughlin, Larry Young {whom at that time, I didn’t remember} and Tony Williams {I’d seen McLaughlin and Williams live}. I had never heard of Lifetime but the line up intrigued me. So I went looking for their stuff which couldn’t be found in the mainstream record shops but which would turn up occasionally in the second-hand stores.
The first two I found were “Believe it” and “The old bum’s rush,” two more vastly different albums one could not hope to find !
Those two albums were only 2 or so years apart but they were essentially two completely different bands. “Believe it” had an interesting line-up and ticks all the boxes. All 6 songs are good and accessible. They sound like a jazz-rock outfit with the guitar and electric piano doing what one would expect the guitar and electric piano to do. Tony Newton is solid on bass and sound-wise, it’s well produced, unlike most of their albums up till then. And thankfully, there’s no singing from Tony Williams {although when I first got their albums, I was spared that future shock !}. One can have no complaints about this jazz fusion.
And yet I do.
Many years ago, I was discussing the song “Three times a lady” with a friend. It was a song I should have loved but somehow, never did. There was always something missing for me from that song but I could never put my finger on quite what it was until that day my friend described it as “too classic to be a classic.” It’s almost like Lionel Richie had set out to write the classic love song rather than just a love song. And as a result it sounded like tons of love song clichés were thrown in. That’s exactly how I feel about “Believe it.” It’s clichéd.
It’s almost cookie-cutter, textbook jazz fusion. Don’t get me wrong, I truly really dig the album and I wouldn’t part with it for any money. I’m a fan of all of the songs {especially “Wildlife”} and the playing and the solos and the riffs {such as they are} and the moves…...but it is such a safe album. There’s no daring to it. It’s almost as though by that stage, Tony Williams had been so beaten down by having chosen to remain edgy and “out there” but had gotten nowhere, that he thought that going the more accessible mainstream fusion route would bring him actual success. The funny thing is that “Believe it” is wonderfully consistent. It’s more consistent than albums that Return to Forever, Mahavishnu Orchestra, Weather Report, Isotope, Jeff Beck, Gateway, Collin Walcott, Jan Hammer, Joachim Kuhn, Jean-Luc Ponty, Eberhardt Weber, 11th House and others were coming out with at the time, yet the best of it does not equal the best on the inconsistent albums of those others, in my opinion.
And crazily, though it should, to my ears and tastes, be a far superior album to “The old bum’s rush”…..it isn’t ! While I do agree that “Believe it” sounds like a band playing together in the same room and enjoying the grooves they set, they sound like a band that has set out to not push boundaries. Almost like they wanted to record the album in a day, and could do so because they were well rehearsed and used to playing with each other. Whereas “The old bum’s rush” sounds like a band playing together in the same room and enjoying the grooves they set…….but the room is cold, damp and smelly, rats are running about the place, unexpectedly, bits of plaster are falling off the wall when it gets too loud, the band is stoned or drunk or both, hungry too, neighbours are being raided by narcotic agencies and hoods are chucking their wares through the windows of the room the band are playing in ! It really is all over the place. But although a couple of the songs are pure trash and although there are some really irritating timbres and sounds and although there could hardly be said to be good songwriting here, the album succeeds in sounding fresh, exciting, insane, daring and it is accessible. I can hum any of the tunes or parts of them. Even Tony’s singing on “Changing Man” is passable. Tequila’s vocals throughout are lovely and are quite unlike just about any I’ve heard in jazz fusion. Indeed, the band’s funky take on fusion and the way they channel the Parliament/Funkadelic vibe’n’humour {“The Boodang” is so ridiculous that it’s hilarious, yet is a brilliant track} is pretty unique and overall, justifies the experiment. Having your Dad come to play on one of the songs is such a Tony Williams move ! In those days, “Uncompromising” was Tony’s middle name.
It’s a paradoxical album, in that it sounds way out there, yet normal and song oriented, yet underneath there’s some strange moves afoot. It is real jazz fusion.
I don’t know what was in his or the band’s minds when they did this album, but whatever it was, I can think of many artists down the years that could have done with some of it !
The 2 holsworth lifetime albums are historic. The playing on those albums set a new standard at that time!!!!
Andy Edwards is a great guest.
Love all the shows Pete but anytime I see that you’ve got a show about jazz or jazz musicians it makes my day a whole lot sweeter. As a fan of classic rock, metal and jazz, your channel is my one stop shop for all things music!
Another album that could have come into the conversation was the 1970 Larry Coryell album "Spaces" - with John McLaughlin, Billy Cobham, Chick Corea, and Miroslav Vitous. Also see Mclaughlin and Santana playing material from T.W.Lifetime etc. on the Invitation To Illumination DVD, with Cindy Blackman Santana on drums.
Anything with Cindy is worth checking out.
Devout TW Disciple she is.
Pete, Have Mr. Edwards on absolutely anytime. I had been looking forward to this for a while and it didn’t disappoint.
I feel that Pete got great classic-era fusion conversation going all throughout. I would welcome anything resembling drumming conversation with Andy in the co-captain’s chair and I’m thrilled to compare Cobham lists when that video comes out.
Placing this one in the SoT classics folder.
Thank you Alec. I thought I knew my fusion but Pete seems to know every album ever made! This is why we all love this channel!
McLaughlin recently said he first used a short-scale Fender Mustang when he switched to a solid body on "Jack Johnson" .
These two guys together Andy and Pete are superb analysts!!!!! I have a special place for Ego because that was my introduction to Tony way back in '72. Yes, I agree with Andy and Pete that it is fragmented and uninspiring, but again for me, this was an album I bought at 12 years old. That said for me it's : 7) Bums Rush, 6) Million Dollar Legs, 5) Ego, 4) Joy of Flying, 3) Turn It Over, 2) Emergency, 1) Believe It.
1- Believe it
Off topic but whatever :
2- Eric Dolphy : Out to Lunch
3- Miles Davis : Filles de Kilimandjaro
4- Andrew Hill : Point of Departure
5- Stanley Clarke : Stanley Clarke
6- Herbie Hancock : Maiden Voyage
7- Miles Davis : Miles Smiles
If you love the Dolphy and Hill sessions, check out Grachan Monchur's Evolution also on Blue Note. Tony is amazing on that one as well.
@@musamusashi i know that record.A masterpiece!
I agree that Tony's best playing is on the Stanley Clarke brown album. Absolutely amazing.
For me guys...The Joy Of Flying really just continues to be one of the most complete and touching albums Ever! The rock hard jazz fusion and mix of funk licks on his yellow Traps....Gretsch I think....... the choice of songs and array of musicians as well as the personality of the album NEVER gets old.
Great show guys. Tony Williams was absolutely one of my favorite jazz/fusion drummers. I can’t help but disagree with the negativity about the singing though. Tony was using his voice as another instrument in his composition. Whether the critic finds it good or bad quality, it fleshed out the composition for Tony. I think that’s all that matters here; he was the artist. He lives on forever through the beauty of his works.
And his words. ;)
Thanks for this Pete and Andy. Tony fan here from the late 60s forward, I heard all the Lifetime albums as they were released. Some insight: Tony typically did two albums with a lineup/formula, then would purposely do a polarized pendulum swing in the opposite direction to avoid being repetitive and pigeonholed. This is why he followed the manic balls-out heavy fusion shredding of Emergency & Turn it Over with the uber chill, UN-fusion, vibey EGO, which I strongly disliked at the time. BUT, watch TH-camr Matt Hughen''s stellar live footage of the EGO band and behold one of the most unique and truly progressive bands of the '70s who were doing something totally their own; highly adventurous and as non-cliched, non-formulaic as it gets. Reviewer Stewart Mason called EGO "easily the weirdest record the Tony Williams Lifetime ever released," and wrote: "Ego is an experimental blend of post-hard bop jazz and the spacier end of psychedelic rock... parts of the album sound like Atom Heart Mother-era Pink Floyd." EGO was a one-off followed by another one-off, The Old Bum's Rush, which was a partial return to a relatively high(er) energy approach, with Tony's then-wife Laura 'Tequila' Logan singing; loose, funky, and "progressive" in a genre-defying way, but not a shredder fusion record. Tony followed up by keeping Tequila on vocals & Webster Lewis on keys, bringing back Jack Bruce on bass (but no vocals) and introducing Allan Holdsworth to re-introduce the shred last heard on Turn it Over. These 1974 sessions were never released but circulate, including here on YT, as a bootleg. Almost as weird as EGO in its own way, but radically different because the opening track is a return to flame-throwing, guitar-driven fusion with---get this--- a nearly NINE MINUTE solo by Holdsworth which kicks in at about the two minute mark after Tequila rap-sings about the baby (Tony's?) in her womb; from start to finish it's one big WTF. The rest of the album rocks with the distinct flavor of a 70's "black activism" vibe ala Angela Davis with Holdsworth ripping it up. Tony then got rid of everyone except Holdsworth and recruited Alan Pasqua on keyboards and Tony Newton on bass to form the New Lifetime, once again returning to incendiary but melodic fusion for "Believe It" (1975) which put Holdsworth on the map for most people. The improvisational interplay between everyone on Believe It is a masterclass and was Holdsworth's favorite of all his recordings; the lack of this improvisational interplay is why he left both UK and Bruford's band, feeling stifled by the strict compositional formula he was expected to adhere to. The New Lifetime's follow-up, Million Dollar Legs, a watered-down and prettied-up recasting of Believe It with an attempted "radio friendly" vocal track thrown in, proved too much of a compromise for Holdsworth who bailed shortly into the supporting tour and was replaced by Marlon Graves. For me, all of the Lifetime albums, even the uniformly weird EGO (watch the live video!), have their unique charms. But for innovation and overall listenability I'll take Emergency, Turn It Over (especially the Bill Laswell version), and Believe It.
Lovely discussion! Really enjoyed this one... 1hr zipped by very quickly!
Speaking of Drummers - Ed Cassidy of SPIRIT ( quite the story regarding his and Spirit's ) - may we rank the SPIRIT albums one show please Pete? Many thanks from Oz !
Fascinating discussion about Williams and a whole lot more! This will be a useful resource for future purchases. Thanks, guys!
What a wonderful guest and conversation. Informative and educational grounded in Constructive critique displaying a deep knowledge of the music. Chapeau. These kinds of dialogues is one the best reasons to subscribe to SOT.
I have his Lifetime Anthology. Covers it all, but good to know the origins.
I love Tony (rip), but still i move a bit off topic with the mentioning of Holdsworth on «Forty Reasons» the Chad Wackerman album. Just mindblowing.
Anyhow. Great episode.
Hope there will be some discussion on "The Lost Wildlife Sessions - Stockholm Sweden 1974". It was unfortunate that an album was never officially released - would have served as a logical bridge between what was heard on "The Old Bum's Rush" and what would later be heard on "Believe It".
Everybody should check out the Stockholm sessions. Allan's playing is surprisingly funky and bluesy on that date. Also, there are loads of bootleg tapes from the New Lifetime band from all kinds of US gigs on TH-cam. Such a great fusion band..
love it when Pete changes gear and shifts down (UP) to a different music genre be it Jazz Fusion, Obscure Prog or an unlabeled 1 Cool Show Cheers
Great episode here, Pete. BTW I thought you were Danny Carey for a second! Just saw him the other night with Vai, Belew and Levin. Hope you do a commentary on this tour.
Very interesting. Well done.
I think what we need is a 'Best of Tony Williams' double cd, which draws together the best music he made, opening it up for people to hear. This could be great, imposing 'dicipline' on the stuff he managed to record.
Andy and Pete. What a great video from two people I absolutely love and admire. Thanks guys. been listening a lot to both channels and it's great to hear you guys talk about fusion like that. It's just crazy how every conversation about fusion derails to a discussion on how great and under rated Holdsworth was. It's that guilt which eats us all, knowing how neglected his music was during his lifetime. It's pure guilt. Guilt and shame.
The story of JM teaching Jimmy Page is legend. Apparently, JM taught Jimmy the opening chords to 'My Funny Valentine'. Strangely enough, a few years later, Jimmy writes Stairway to Heaven which shares the same chromatic chords as My Funny Valentine :)
In 1980, four members of Magma did a fusion band called Fusion (yep) with Christian Vander on drums, Jannick Top on bass, Didier Lockwood on violin and Benoit Widemann on keys. Jannick Top released a CD of a gig in Paris 1980 with them covering Fred and Going Back Home from The Lifetime. Amazing stuff.
Love your shows Pete!!! You guys should try picking one song from each studio release from some of these bands who have big catalogs. I have created some play lists that way with bands like Kiss, priest, and so on. You come up with some interesting mixes and it's hard to choose for sure. Keep up the good work and take care.
Though I said I hadn't remembered Larry Young, I must have had some idea of who he was because I was a serious lover of the posthumous Hendrix album "Nine to the universe" on which he appears. I also really dug "Bitches Brew" although to be fair, I wouldn't have taken much notice of him in the credits at that time.
Check his album Unity on Blue Note, with Elvin Jones on drums: a real masterpiece.
If ever a band defined the word ‘enigma’, it was Lifetime. The actual definition is “someone or something that's puzzling, mysterious, or difficult to make sense of.” That sums up that band like few other words authentically could.
They didn’t invent jazz rock, but they were in at its dawn and Tony Williams had been leaning his ear towards rock and pop for a number of years. When he was playing with Miles, circa ‘64/’65, he felt the band ought to be covering Beatle songs. He had also been part of an experimental group of jazz players that included Mike Nock who formed The Fourth way, a vitally important but utterly forgotten fusion outfit that existed before Lifetime or Miles’ introduction of electricity as a standard part of his units. In some ways, Lifetime’s musical principles and subsequent career mirrored that of the Fourth Way ~ multiracial band, uncommon instrumental line up, tremendous invention, arcane directions and albums that weren’t always cottoned onto by the listening public and eventual implosion.
But Lifetime released more albums, were way more diverse and were far more of a puzzlement ~ and still are !
Its interesting that Williams had an ear for the Beatles and had played with Nock; equally interesting is that both he and John McLaughlin were on the sessions for Miles’ “In a silent way.” Interesting, because where Miles’ album is a calm, sedate and relaxed outing, Lifetime’s debut, “Emergency !” is anything but !! It’s almost as though he, John and Larry Young were seeking to blow “In a silent way” completely out of the waters and signal where this emerging jazz-rock fusion should be going. “Emergency !” is one of the great albums of 1969, described by Rolling Stone as “a giant step into the future” and the very fact that it was a double album bears out what Stuart Nicholson was getting at when he said of Tony, “He was bursting with things to say and new ways to say them” while describing the music as “Manic and desperate….” Although 52 years on it’s easy to see the songs as quite tame compared with some of rock and even jazz’s more excessive noises, in truth it’s a sizzling album. Yes, there are some moments that are actually comparatively straight-ahead jazz….kind of…..but these are few and far between ! All three players come across as pretty insane and out of control in terms of restraint and that really enhances the music, as does the poor recording quality. Apparently, the engineer overloaded the recording levels and gave a distortion to the recording that John McLaughlin may have hated, but which adds to the excitement. Despite Mclaughlin’s disdain for the sound, I don’t think it’s unfair to opine that without Lifetime, there would have been no Mahavishnu Orchestra and without them, there wouldn’t have been Return to Forever’s electric incarnation. Or at least, not in the same way.
Lifetime did have two major drawbacks though, and the seeds of both are on the debut. One is that they explored so many directions that people just couldn’t keep up {although that’s why I love their music, for the most part}. And the second is…..Tony’s singing. Without pulling any punches, singing was not Tony Williams’ strong suit ! At times, his voice is one of the worst I’ve ever heard {coming just ahead of Yoko Ono, Sid Vicious and Telly Savalas}. He’s the kind of singer that should have maybe had one vocal per album and a producer that pushed him into giving his best performance. Unfortunately, he approached singing in the same way he approached drumming and jazz rocking. His willingness to experiment and abandon norms worked wonders for those two. It did not for vocals ! But at least his singing on “Emergency !” doesn’t fall into the realm of “horrendous” as it was to do on subsequent albums. It’s passable here and doesn’t leave my nerves crawling and me scratching like I’ve got chickenpox.
The same cannot be said for “Turn it over.” This is the aggregation that Jack Bruce felt was the best he ever played in. And it should be the greatest jazz-rock album in existence. It has everything going for it. Bruce coming in on bass and [should be] vocals. McLaughlin becoming more varied and upping the savage electricity. Young doing things with the organ that it simply was not polite to do in jazz and frowned on in rock. And Tony Williams ! The album cover back is a whizz ! The opener “To whom it may concern” is the living definition of “out there.” There’s no bass on the track and it is one of the heaviest pieces of music on record. Then there’s “Vuelta Abajo” and what the heck can I say about that ? If there is such a thing as heavy metal jazz {and there are a number of pieces that can fit such a definition}, this is its standard bearer. It gets so intense at points that one almost needs oxygen to listen all the way through. “Right on” rips through the atmosphere and is a weird recording but I love it in the right mood.
It really should be the greatest jazz rock album ever, it should certainly be Lifetime’s. But for me, it isn’t. Tony’s singing wrecks those songs he sings on {his performance on “This time, this song” should have had him jailed ! It turns an innovative piece into twaddle and “Once, I loved” is, in a word, horrible} and I find some of the other songs surprisingly ‘meh’ after the debut and some of the great hefty outpourings on this. Songs like “Big Nick” and “Allah be praised” just come over as a re-tread of some of the pieces on “Emergency !” but without any real fire to keep one pinned by the ears. It seems better pieces were left off the album. It’s such an irony to me that this album contains, in my opinion, 2 of the best songs they did {the 2 parts of “To whom it may concern” and “Vuelta Abajo”}, but is their worst album overall.
I learn so much from this channel.
Thank you.
Rock on.
Wonderful podcast and discussion.
Everything here is spot on, thanks.
Personally i am tilted to my old time friend, Allan Holdsworth, can't help:
Chatted with Tony Williams, once, same with Alan Pasqua,... had a great night of
Hollywood fun with Tony Williams, at
Allan's opening IOU show, The Roxy
(Eddie Van Halen, too),... so all in all,
Yes describing 1975, 1976, band...
Believe It, Million Dollar Legs... wrapping up on my few words (we could all collectively write a book, huh?)... perspective: Jean-Luc Ponty, pre-Holdsworth (1977)... Ponty was already flying, and, flying high on the tailwinds of Zappa, Mahavishnu, etc! Fast forward, connecting dots ------
1975 Believe It, Tony Williams.
1976 Million.... Tony Williams.
1976 Enigmatic Ocean, Ponty.
ALLAN HOLDSWORTH 🔥🎸💥.
yes yes ... all advanced to
1978. UK. UK. (epic progressive)
1979. Bill Bruford Group....
Gong.... etc etc etc.... then I.O.U.
JAZZ FUSION HISTORY. MADE.
LEMONADE.
thank you gentlemen !!!!!!!!!
Ego is so weird but I love it!!! In some parts reminds me of Bitches Brew!
Ego is incredible.
Andy and Pete WOW !
Wow, interesting discussion and also my own personal surprise that the EGO album seems to be so inaccessable (emotionally and sonically) for these two gentlemen. To me, EGO is my number 1 Lifetime album, because it was kind of the only album where the band sound and the music seemed more important that single players shining through. It was really a different approach as any other album, a bigger ensemble, percussionists who tempted Tony to probably play less than in trio or quartet settings. Of course, Believe It and the first two Lifetime stand for themselves, in their own category I suppose. But EGO: Ca. 45, Urchins of Shermese (some stellar drumming here!) There Comes a Time, etc...how this can be rated behind something like Million Dollar Legs....leaves me puzzled to say the least. But we all are different, so it is like it is. I like the fact that they admitted that the existing live tapes paint another picture for them of the EGO Lifetime and that it is probably the production of the album thats turning them off.
And I am not alone, with Vinnie Calaiuta also saying that the EGO album changed his life, so there you go.
Anyway, thanks again for this great video!
Holdsworth also played on the first Tempest album with Jon Hiseman on drums.
I personally love Ego, and overall prefer those first lineups with Larry Young. My rankings would be 1. Emergency, 2. Turn It Over, 3. Ego, 4. Believe It. The other albums drop off significantly after that. And I love Allan Holdsworth but my favorite iterations of the band were the initial ones. And for as much attention as McLaughlin received in that group, and (later for a brief period) Jack Bruce, there’s a quote out there (might have been from Tony Williams himself) that said “the real genius of the band was Larry Young.” All the best.
Tony Williams, Max Roach, Elvin Jones and Art Blakey are my absolute drum heroes! Then we have Ginger Baker, Mitch Mitchell and Bonzo. Of course, Max Roach was the hero of them all!
Great to hear about this guy.
Emergency!, Turn it Over, The Joy of Flying, Believe It, Ego, Million Dollar Legs, my picks.
I have the same two on one collection with Believe It and Million Dollar Legs that Pete has. Reach for it often mainly to bask in the genius that was Allan Holdsworth oh yeah the drummer what’s his name is pretty good also. LOL
Check out Wildlife on TH-cam which is the lost Stockholm sessions which features Holdsworth, Jack Bruce & keyboardist from the bums rush Webster Lewis
Thanks for interesting discussion. I have to say I've never been able to get into Lifetime. I prefer McLaughlin (e.g. Devotion) and Holdsworth albums. When I looked through my own collection, I have no Lifetime. I do have Trio of Doom (Tony Williams, McLaughlin and Jaco)...its OK. Re. edgy guitar heavy albums, a current favourite is "News from the Jungle" by Jeff Lee Johnson (finally with correct cover artwork on Tidal).
Arcana 'Arc of the Testimony' as briefly mentioned here is Tony Williams at his most experimental & savage. The last recording of his career, it is right up there with Axiom label mate Sonny Sharrock's "Ask the Ages" (Sonny's last album as well) as a 1-2 punch of modern day fusion that are down right SCARY. Both albums feature Pharoah Sanders on sax and Bill Laswell's spacious production. These albums are where fusion's past meets the future and are exceptionally breathtaking listening experiences - not for the faint of heart.
Totally agree...as is 'The Last Wave'
"...not for the faint of heart". Indeed! ;-O
The only one I have is Believe It, which I bought after hearing 'Fred'. That's the New Tony Williams Lifetime, strictly speaking. Good record but haven't explored further, so far.
I found a 3 pack of Believe It! Joy Of Flying and Million Dollar Legs on Amazon. Would that be a good buy?
If you like it funky yes.
@@AndyEdwardsDrummer ok thank you.
go for it !
Prepare yourself mentally
You will love it
"There Comes A Time" on Ego is a GREAT tune.
They mentioned a few different versions in the discussion... you might like this one too... th-cam.com/video/kZCXRKkkAfE/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=AnIntroductionToEasternEurope%2CEuropeanFunk%26Grooves
@@neilloughran4437 That version was a little laid back. The Rhodes was great, the vocal "harmonizing DIDN'T resonate with me. Tony's playing is impeccable as ever. I appreciate you sharing. You may have already it, there is a live version from 1977,look up "Tony Williams Live Rare 1977... Great version!
EGO is a great album.
Play or die is a great album
The Shut up and play yer guitar album with Zappa and Vinnie has the same savage flavour than the Allan / Tony combination
That album is up there with Miles and Coltrane in terms of improvisation. Sometimes I don't think Zappa gets his just deserts for the serious musician he was, because he made comedy songs. But that album is one of my favourite albums of all time.
@@AndyEdwardsDrummer not many people realize the importance of this album even Zappa fans; I hope I'm wrong
@@guillaumechabason3165 The way the guitar interacts with the rhythm section is completely revolutionary on there.
@@AndyEdwardsDrummer the Holdsworth / Husband couple is quite amazing too
There are a few bootleg recordings that are absolutely smokin
“Ego” is one of those albums that made me want to fly out to the USA, kick Tony Williams’ backside….and hug him and buy him dinner at the same time ! It is one of the most ying and yang albums I have. It’s magnificent. And it’s awful because of the singing. It’s subtle. And it’s over the top and way “out there.” It’s thoughtful. And it shows signs of sheer insanity. It’s inventive. But it is not inclusive. It’s a big middle finger to the listener. Yet it is also trying hard to win the listener over. It is an album of such contradiction.
The 3 percussion pieces are boring and struggle to bear repeat listenings. Despite John McLaughlin saying of Williams:
“When Lifetime started, Tony was already radical. I loved Tony because he was free, he was a real free spirit and he had new concepts of how to play drums. I loved that. When we started playing, within a couple of months I had to get a big amp and trade in my hollow body for a solid body, otherwise the hollow body guitar freaks out with high volume. Tony was always loud and strong because he loved rock’n’roll”
this isn’t a loud raucous album and the drums and percussion on their own don’t really inspire. “Some hip drum shit” just about manages to keep some interest. However, when they are in conjunction with Ron Carter {bass} Ted Dunbar {guitar} and Larry Young, they’re in a league of their own.
Dunbar is no Johnny Mac in terms of his electric tone. His tone feels almost like a backward step from where the jazz based thing had been going for the previous 5 years {and assisted in no small measure by the likes of Hendrix and Clapton} and where it would continue to go. But it’s strangely appropriate here and really contributes to the menacing feel of the songs. The songs are actually creepy. Yet there are some of my favourite moments in fusion here. A song like “Two worlds” exemplifies the frustration that is “Ego.” I’m told that it’s Jack Bruce singing on this. Well, if it is, he’s doing his best to sound like Tony ~ not something to be recommended ! The vocal is irritating beyond irritation Yet the music is superb and otherworldly. The way the music sees the song out is classic and perplexing Lifetime.
“Lonesome Wells” is similar. A wonderful tune that meanders in all kinds of bizarre directions with Larry Young’s brilliant organ very prominent. But Williams’ awful vocal derails what should be a fusion masterpiece. In the past, Larry Young’s organ sound could be really skin crawling but on this album, he chooses appropriate and accessible sounds and ironically, this is his best sounding workout in Lifetime.
“Circa 45” thankfully spares us any singing and encapsulates so well the creepy feeling that is in so many of the songs. “Mom and Dad” does likewise ~ indeed, both these songs could easily be part of the soundtrack to a horror movie.
There are actually times when Tony’s singing is passable and “There comes a time” is one of those times. Instrumentally, it’s a great song and is going great guns when that voice comes in. But for once, the meanness of the lyric is well borne out in the vocal. The congas in this song are also magnificent. The percussion in Lifetime were an added plus, if you ask me.
The painting of him on the cover is best summed up by the track “The urchins of Shermese.” If you look at the top of the gatefold and his head in the picture and all the things coming out of it, this track is the musical encapsulation of that. It’s so Lifetime, starting off nicely, yet with this disturbing edge that hints at there being something weird just around the corner, then Ka~boom ! The piece goes crazy, but in a controlled way. There are cross rhythms and odd time signatures on the album that don’t seem that way until you try to dance to the songs that have them !
I like this album a lot but it carries flaws that ensure anything but a smooth listen. But really, until “Believe it,” consistency was not a word one would use in the same sentence with Lifetime, except for that brilliant first album.
I think Tony was a bit like Art Blakely in that he cycled a lot of raw up and coming talent through his band.
I Like "Ego" the best.
Lungs. DeJohnette , Abercrombie and Jan Hammer off Timeless.
In the 1980s Tony Williams did not suddenly become a composer. Tony stopped performing for several years in the early 1980s and moved to Marin County when he attended the Berkeley School of Music to study composition. It's interesting that you are a Tony Williams fan and do not know this!
If you like jazz and monstrous feedback: Turn It Over.
I love the Bill Laswell mixes of Turn It Over. Why it was never released is a cryin shame.
Tony wanted to keep McLaughlin and young but the band sat still for months at a time .His management thought no one would like it so they didn’t advertise or push touring so John went to mahavishnu and tony regrouped and marched on
LSD influence
Ego IMO is one of the worst albums of the fusion genre, no consistency and no real point at all. Turn it Over, on the other hand, has a crazy intensity, a wild album.
Yes...I agree entirely!
Man, Andy talks way too much! Super annoying.
bla bla bla , no and never music !!!