@@irfannazmi1985 so you are telling me 4 out of 5 prx players are top 10 in the world and they still haven't won anything internationally? Do you realise it should literally be impossible to not win if you have 4 of your players in the top 10?
@@aRandomGuy924 You want top 10 players right? Then consistency matters more than the trophy. Players like Aspas, Less, f0rsaken, Jinggg, D4v4i, Leo, Alfajer, Cryo have been maintaining this high level of consistency throughout the 2 years in Valorant. PRX is the most consistent team now that Loud no longer qualifies into Masters just proves that PRX players are the most consistent right now except mindfreak, and I could argue something as well. Trophies don't determine the top 10 at all, but of course they contribute to the ranking a bit. You are telling me Sacy is the top 10 players in the world just because he has 3 titles internationally?
Not putting in forsaken is a crime against valorant. Man plays every agent on a professional level. Always clutches for his team. The eu n na bias is crazy.
I think F0rsaken not making it to top 10 while regretable is normal, he's a true flex, his impact starts from before the game even started as he's enabling the team a myriad of options and combination. While he sometimes put on a top 2 acs game, lately he mainly playing support and setup for his teammate. So he doesn't really get impact kill, he helps jinggg or smth to get it. If the list is made by impact kills and wow moments, then it's understandable.
Are u kidding me, Asuna over forsaken 😂 bro is glazing 100thieves like no tommorow, forsaken might not get all the kill but his flexibility enable PRX to work with comp, and one of the reason PRX lotus get 13 0 is because Forsaken Breach, while u can replace Asuna with Aspas u cant replace forsaken flex
I can respect the list and TMV's opinion enough - it's his list, after all - but the argument that this is a fair list doesn't hold water when it conflates diversity with fairness. Having a relatively equal amount of players from each region on the list doesn't actually make it "fair", because that'd be rating players while also taking into account of their regional competition instead of just rating them solely based on individual performance and how each player would stack up against every other player on the list in the H2H. A truly fair and unbiased rating just wouldn't be concerned with which region they're from, nor would it take into account whether or not too many players from the same team are also on the list. Because if a team has been consistently at or near the top for a decent stretch of time, it would naturally just have more of its players as a part of the Top 10. Let's take FNATIC or EG for example: I'm sure if you asked people to make a Top 10 players list at the end of 2023, most people would've likely had 3-4 out of the 5 FNATIC players on it (possibly even all 5 if one also took into consideration of IGLing), and they probably would've had 2-3 EG players there, too. And that makes sense; the players on those two teams in particular proved they're worthy of being rated as a Top 10 player throughout the course of 2023. It wouldn't be unfair to rate them as a part of the Top 10, because they demonstrated consistently dominant performances for most of the year and earned those spots on the list, regardless of the fact that such a list of Top 10 players predominantly features EMEA/NA and specifically FNC/EG players. Same logic here applies to PRX also: the team has placed nothing but Top 2/3 internationally and Top 1/2 regionally in the past year, and the MVP for this team in particular has also been hotly debated across 3 of its players this whole time. Given all of this, is it really all that crazy to have 4 out of the 5 PRX members on the Top 10 list? I wouldn't say so - the only player in APAC that has consistently proved himself to be a serious contender against PRX's players on an individual level has pretty much only been T3xture. All that being said, it's just difficult to buy any kind of reasoning for f0rsakeN to not be on the Top 10 list, considering the player he lost the 10th spot to literally hasn't qualified for an international event* since Champs 2022. (*LOCK//IN doesn't count since every franchised team was invited. Keyword for this statement is "qualified".)
I think the problem is that you're comparing the end of 2023 to a very early stage of 2024, so far we have only had Masters Madrid for a global tournament, and IMO the qualifications for that was terrible (that being said, if they dismantled that tournament I think we could argue they are good enough for 4 slots). So comparing it to people putting 3/4 Fnatic or EG players just doesn't hold as much water. But ultimately the main thing I disagree with is the thought of them consistently being top 2/3 is enough to give them 4 top 10 players list, if anything I'd argue it's the opposite, they're consistantly a great team, just never great enough and if 4 of your players are in the top 10 you should be good enough. But this is their chance to prove that they are that super team, if they can make a clean upper braket run and win the tournament, then we know that they are the new super team that deserves 4/5 players in the top 10.
I really hate everytime they make top 10 list, they say F0rsaken is not top 10, then he shit on everyone and after the event they will say F0rsaken is the goat
Maybe you should do a top 5 igl list going into these Lans. They never show up on the top player lists, but they are prob the most important player on the team
The IGL disrespect for Kingg - he puts up insane numbers on the hardest role in the game (IGL - not controller) - honestly I believe he clears Alfajer (I love FNC but he overpeeks), Jingg (PRX are the goat and he is raze but still ...) and Asuna (is overrated ngl - he is under Bang, Eeiu and Cryo).
a poll is probably the worst way to make that decision. Prx has a huge fanbase. That said, I give prx the edge based on overall big moment and lan experience compared to just Boostio having that experience on 100T.
How much is historical precedence taken into this list? If we look purely at 2024, I would honestly agree with the idea that f0rsaken shouldn't necessarily be on the list. He's definitely really really good, arguably 11th/12th, but the stats and eye test show that he's a very very good flex player. Granted, if we were to take into account the difficulty of the "f0rsaken" flex position and the fact that he's secondary calling, he should be top 10, but to me, this list looks purely at stats + 15% eye test of players that are entering Shanghai based on their performance over Stage 1. If you take that into account, his 195 ACS, -3FK/FD, and .72 KPR just don't scream top 10 player to me. Another argument I've seen is "I would rather take f0rsaken over xxx player if I was building a team", but that isn't what the list is inherently judging. Obviously, if I'm starting a new team, I'm gonna take the guy that's most flexible and has had sustained success over a long period of guy instead of a Jett one trick, but that's not what TMV's list looks like to me. The confusion lies in what we deem as "best player". Some people think it should take into account roles, IGLing, historical precedence, etc, which I would agree that f0rsaken should be on here. But, if you had no idea who f0rsaken was, I honestly believe that most people would have removed him from consideration before many others. It's the name and branding around Paper Rex, their success over the last 2 years, the fact that he's flashy and likeable, and the fact that people love opening his VLR and seeing his random ass harbor that puts him in the top 10. Last thing to showcase my point: Which player would you rather take? Player 1 1.07 195.5 1.11 78% 131.1 0.72 0.35 0.08 0.11 32% 17% Player 2 1.09 206.2 1.05 75% 135.6 0.70 0.38 0.09 0.08 23% 14% From my perspective, these players are super similar in terms of their impact according to their stats. Player 1 is f0rsaken. Can anyone guess who Player 2 is?
1:05:13 im from apac, ngl here competition is bad too. Like outside PRX, GENG, T1, and DRX all shit lmaooo. Also d4v41 better than something? cmon dude something value on first kills is so high..
As a huge 100t fan, I’m pretty happy with #2 team just because, while I think we’re really good, we’re untested on the international level as a team. PRX is gonna just be “business as usual” for their 88th international lan in 4 years lol.
Bro, ain't no way he rated Asuna higher than Forsaken in the top 10 players (Cryo is acceptable). He is the most inconsistent among top duelist players here. Flex player like Forsaken is more valuable.
was fun watching the chat go crazy about cryo and asuna being on the list like americas teams havent won the last 2 international events and made the finals of the last 5 international events 😂
Forsaken not getting top 10 because he is in apac region and not americas is crazy.
do you want the whole of PRX in there? tf are you crying about
@@ay-ui6bt Well the core of D4v4i, Jinggg and f0rsaken has been consistent for 2 years already always reached top 3/4 in Masters/Champions
@@irfannazmi1985 so you are telling me 4 out of 5 prx players are top 10 in the world and they still haven't won anything internationally? Do you realise it should literally be impossible to not win if you have 4 of your players in the top 10?
@@aRandomGuy924 You want top 10 players right? Then consistency matters more than the trophy. Players like Aspas, Less, f0rsaken, Jinggg, D4v4i, Leo, Alfajer, Cryo have been maintaining this high level of consistency throughout the 2 years in Valorant. PRX is the most consistent team now that Loud no longer qualifies into Masters just proves that PRX players are the most consistent right now except mindfreak, and I could argue something as well. Trophies don't determine the top 10 at all, but of course they contribute to the ranking a bit. You are telling me Sacy is the top 10 players in the world just because he has 3 titles internationally?
@@irfannazmi1985Cryo been consistent for like 6 weeks, lets not lump him in with the likes of Aspas and Less.
bro put asuna there and forsaken not. the Hell
Not putting in forsaken is a crime against valorant. Man plays every agent on a professional level. Always clutches for his team. The eu n na bias is crazy.
chat screaming for forsaken was the funniest thing
No forsaken is crazy
Let’s be real forsaken belongs here
THERE IS NO WAY F0RSAKEN IS THE 4TH BEST PLAYER ON PAPER REX
u think mindfreak is better than him?
@@MackeezZ no, that's what I said
Based on the playoff stats thats kinda true i mean im a prx supporter but forsaken on breach kinda limits his performance
Forsaken is a great player his teammates are just great
Also people often forget that Forsaken is a SUPER flex player and still pulling up good performance
I think F0rsaken not making it to top 10 while regretable is normal, he's a true flex, his impact starts from before the game even started as he's enabling the team a myriad of options and combination. While he sometimes put on a top 2 acs game, lately he mainly playing support and setup for his teammate. So he doesn't really get impact kill, he helps jinggg or smth to get it.
If the list is made by impact kills and wow moments, then it's understandable.
Are u kidding me, Asuna over forsaken 😂 bro is glazing 100thieves like no tommorow, forsaken might not get all the kill but his flexibility enable PRX to work with comp, and one of the reason PRX lotus get 13 0 is because Forsaken Breach, while u can replace Asuna with Aspas u cant replace forsaken flex
from valorant analyst to professional circus clown
Tmv farming impression of 100t fans
the moment he kicks forsaken out, chats going crazyyyy😂😂
IMPRESSION FARMING AT ITS BEST
asuna over f0rsaken is literally nonsense
I can respect the list and TMV's opinion enough - it's his list, after all - but the argument that this is a fair list doesn't hold water when it conflates diversity with fairness. Having a relatively equal amount of players from each region on the list doesn't actually make it "fair", because that'd be rating players while also taking into account of their regional competition instead of just rating them solely based on individual performance and how each player would stack up against every other player on the list in the H2H.
A truly fair and unbiased rating just wouldn't be concerned with which region they're from, nor would it take into account whether or not too many players from the same team are also on the list. Because if a team has been consistently at or near the top for a decent stretch of time, it would naturally just have more of its players as a part of the Top 10. Let's take FNATIC or EG for example: I'm sure if you asked people to make a Top 10 players list at the end of 2023, most people would've likely had 3-4 out of the 5 FNATIC players on it (possibly even all 5 if one also took into consideration of IGLing), and they probably would've had 2-3 EG players there, too. And that makes sense; the players on those two teams in particular proved they're worthy of being rated as a Top 10 player throughout the course of 2023. It wouldn't be unfair to rate them as a part of the Top 10, because they demonstrated consistently dominant performances for most of the year and earned those spots on the list, regardless of the fact that such a list of Top 10 players predominantly features EMEA/NA and specifically FNC/EG players.
Same logic here applies to PRX also: the team has placed nothing but Top 2/3 internationally and Top 1/2 regionally in the past year, and the MVP for this team in particular has also been hotly debated across 3 of its players this whole time. Given all of this, is it really all that crazy to have 4 out of the 5 PRX members on the Top 10 list? I wouldn't say so - the only player in APAC that has consistently proved himself to be a serious contender against PRX's players on an individual level has pretty much only been T3xture. All that being said, it's just difficult to buy any kind of reasoning for f0rsakeN to not be on the Top 10 list, considering the player he lost the 10th spot to literally hasn't qualified for an international event* since Champs 2022.
(*LOCK//IN doesn't count since every franchised team was invited. Keyword for this statement is "qualified".)
Well said
I think the problem is that you're comparing the end of 2023 to a very early stage of 2024, so far we have only had Masters Madrid for a global tournament, and IMO the qualifications for that was terrible (that being said, if they dismantled that tournament I think we could argue they are good enough for 4 slots). So comparing it to people putting 3/4 Fnatic or EG players just doesn't hold as much water.
But ultimately the main thing I disagree with is the thought of them consistently being top 2/3 is enough to give them 4 top 10 players list, if anything I'd argue it's the opposite, they're consistantly a great team, just never great enough and if 4 of your players are in the top 10 you should be good enough.
But this is their chance to prove that they are that super team, if they can make a clean upper braket run and win the tournament, then we know that they are the new super team that deserves 4/5 players in the top 10.
Well said. I think the only other player aside from T3xture that could be argued would be Mako, but DRX not making Shanghai makes that a moot point.
I really hate everytime they make top 10 list, they say F0rsaken is not top 10, then he shit on everyone and after the event they will say F0rsaken is the goat
My boys fought hard for forsaken
Maybe you should do a top 5 igl list going into these Lans. They never show up on the top player lists, but they are prob the most important player on the team
EDG getting asked about who they would like to play in round 1 of playoffs, and 60% of them said DRG because, well, they know.
Forsaken is thousand times better than Asuna.
cap
@@isk2829Forsaken has been a consistent player for years now. How many grand finals and internationals has Asuna been to?
@@MonthlytuneMusic um both forsaken and asuna have the same amount of major trophies 🤣
@@isk2829That wasn't the question, is reading comprehension THAT hard?
@@TheDorkKnightPlays 🤣🤣🤣
The IGL disrespect for Kingg - he puts up insane numbers on the hardest role in the game (IGL - not controller) - honestly I believe he clears Alfajer (I love FNC but he overpeeks), Jingg (PRX are the goat and he is raze but still ...) and Asuna (is overrated ngl - he is under Bang, Eeiu and Cryo).
you're ignoring Valyn? Also Jinggg should be higher imo
He said before the list that he's not considering IGLing
kingg over asuna maybe but over jing and alfa theres no way
a poll is probably the worst way to make that decision. Prx has a huge fanbase. That said, I give prx the edge based on overall big moment and lan experience compared to just Boostio having that experience on 100T.
Bruh Never Let him Cook😂😂
wait how tf u didn't consider zmjjkk on the list that's crazy
Who is Davai? Its David
Who let this man cook
How much is historical precedence taken into this list? If we look purely at 2024, I would honestly agree with the idea that f0rsaken shouldn't necessarily be on the list. He's definitely really really good, arguably 11th/12th, but the stats and eye test show that he's a very very good flex player. Granted, if we were to take into account the difficulty of the "f0rsaken" flex position and the fact that he's secondary calling, he should be top 10, but to me, this list looks purely at stats + 15% eye test of players that are entering Shanghai based on their performance over Stage 1. If you take that into account, his 195 ACS, -3FK/FD, and .72 KPR just don't scream top 10 player to me. Another argument I've seen is "I would rather take f0rsaken over xxx player if I was building a team", but that isn't what the list is inherently judging. Obviously, if I'm starting a new team, I'm gonna take the guy that's most flexible and has had sustained success over a long period of guy instead of a Jett one trick, but that's not what TMV's list looks like to me.
The confusion lies in what we deem as "best player". Some people think it should take into account roles, IGLing, historical precedence, etc, which I would agree that f0rsaken should be on here. But, if you had no idea who f0rsaken was, I honestly believe that most people would have removed him from consideration before many others. It's the name and branding around Paper Rex, their success over the last 2 years, the fact that he's flashy and likeable, and the fact that people love opening his VLR and seeing his random ass harbor that puts him in the top 10.
Last thing to showcase my point:
Which player would you rather take?
Player 1
1.07
195.5
1.11
78%
131.1
0.72
0.35
0.08
0.11
32%
17%
Player 2
1.09
206.2
1.05
75%
135.6
0.70
0.38
0.09
0.08
23%
14%
From my perspective, these players are super similar in terms of their impact according to their stats. Player 1 is f0rsaken. Can anyone guess who Player 2 is?
foresaken? Chichoo?, KEZNIT??? Leaf??? BANG???
I swear TMV is trolling us with for content when he plays Connections
1:05:13 im from apac, ngl here competition is bad too. Like outside PRX, GENG, T1, and DRX all shit lmaooo. Also d4v41 better than something? cmon dude something value on first kills is so high..
benjifishy but no vookashu i sleep
Aspas, something and jingg top 4
As a huge 100t fan, I’m pretty happy with #2 team just because, while I think we’re really good, we’re untested on the international level as a team. PRX is gonna just be “business as usual” for their 88th international lan in 4 years lol.
Bro, ain't no way he rated Asuna higher than Forsaken in the top 10 players (Cryo is acceptable). He is the most inconsistent among top duelist players here. Flex player like Forsaken is more valuable.
When EDG finish top 4, these takes will age badly
nah 5th-6th curse will hit EDG again
edg is top 8 ady . why put 9/10?
He puts in terms of power, not the standings
use your ears
i agreed with almost all of them but why is asuna even there lol.. f0rsaken, bang, or alfajer would be better but u do u
1:26:40 seconds lol forsaken is not in list lol
Tex better than Kingg no?
How is EDG getting 10th even tho their straight into playoffs
its not a prediction list.
T1 47:46 kinda underrated team they still figuring stuff out like agent comp etc but the potential is there
was fun watching the chat go crazy about cryo and asuna being on the list like americas teams havent won the last 2 international events and made the finals of the last 5 international events 😂
leo playing gekko no 2, don't make me laugh
Stick to "ge" kiddo
No way is cryo better than forsaken
ok that MIGHT be true, but Asuna over f0rsakeN is crazy
@@kenarnarayakahe did that for representation, but not miniboo there is kinda crazy
@@rjun152Miniboo has been arguably playing much worse than Woot has in the more recent games