@@WeeabooPocky Oh but people know exactly what they want: to not lose against another player, and not make any effort towards making the first wish true.
@@aelegriniv1649 sadly that seems to be the status quo of the souls community after ER released. They made sure that the game was accessible to the casuals at the expense of it's quality
Not based at all. Exploit: to use someone or something unfairly for your own advantage. Rolling is meant to have i-frames. Fromsoft did NOT mean for backstab glitching, or whatever you want to call it, to be a thing. Therefore, what he is doing is a malicious exploit.
These people would have HATED Dark Souls 3, where you could phase through someone and backstab them. Lord help them if you show them Dark Souls 1 backstabs 😂
@@bubbajoe117 even if i were to agree with you on the game being bad, the PvP was the best and most of the community agree atleast on that so your point doesnt apply here since were talking about PvP...
"You're not allowed to use backstabs because... you're just not. It's unfair. You're trying to win and it's hurtful. I should win because I deserve it. If you were a good person you would stop using backstabs and do only as I say."
@@Rust_BKT can you make videos explaining what kind of playstyles are recommended for specific setups? Like sword of night off great katana, great shield and LGS, things like that it would be really appreciated.
Its never the people who play in an engaging way that get pissed, its always the people best equipped to deal with your playstyle that get mad. Ive watched people get mad at the shotgun crossbow, but the only way Ive been able to make the dang thing do actually reasonable work is when johnny swiftstep spam flies right by me so I can forcfully feed him 10 sleep bolts. Ive used a heal spell and the only people who get angry at it are mages despite them literally being the best equipped to shut down a heal. It baffles me how people get angry at something that they can so easily just stop.
@@naturessacrifice8265 this has always been the case in souls, really good players never complain because they understand how pvp functions work and how to play with them, casuals cry about RKSS, splitleaf, fish gaming, crossbows, swaps, etc., because that’s in their opinion , dishonest (and they don’t care that you need to study this for hundreds of hours, but they present it as something accessible only to you and you dishonestly use it against them). It’s a pity, but this is how it was and how it will be, there will always be casuals who are not able to learn techniques and will point their fingers at those who have the skill to do so. And we will tell them Git gud again
I got hit with a backstab yesterday after attempting to jump attack someone.. and as a mainly 2-D fighting game player as my "competitive" game of choice. I thought that was some badass shit!
I came from DS1 Pvp and rolling forward was basically a free backstab in that game, so just don't do it. Especially if the other guy isn't in recovery.
These people wouldve hated literally any other from game that makes them learn how to play. And my god i dont know why people are so unbelievably salty about dying in games where that is the norm when they are usually 90% of the time using summons to make the game easier
its because they are allowed to make the game dramatically easier in almost every regard save for pvp where a competent player usually has a hard counter for anything they could try its a reality check for a lot of people
@gadfli_1076 preferances actually. But I know you have no concept of preferances, meta slave. I enjoy fighting someone who is fighting me. Not someone fighting the jank hit reg of backstabs.
That last comment 😭😂 homies we are playing elden ring pvp not role playing as artists. Justify your preferences as you must but don’t lose sight of reality 🫶
been noticing a lot of these types of people. way more than usual, almost like its 2016 again. i think its the influx of new generation children becoming netizens. emotional, irrational, namecalling etc.
funny thing is ER is the hardest one to backstab compared to other souls games, at least for me. victim can easily recover from their animation, pc latency is crap because of EAC and other stuff, there’s jumping, crouching and all kinds of stuff, the combat is faster overall. whenever i see someone fishing and executing backstabs really easily i admire their skill, i wish i try more backstabs to have that in my repertoire. these ppl bitching about backstab “exploit” should go and try ds1.
its absolutely the most difficult when compared to other games. ER has extra checks in place to confirm the grab, so people have a much easier time escaping it than they did in previous titles
Smithscript cirque. First attack close in at a diagonal angle on their side, run-heavy, blind spot. Second attack, if they don't have a collosal sword, run up to them, jump over their head with a heavy-jump swing, following up with preferrably blondspot leading into two neutral swings. Third attack, run toward them, dodge past, either blind-spot, or one of the other two attacks previously mentioned, but in quick action. Play it safe, you're able to counter nearly every attack with this weapon. For magic spam, get close to them, and never let them run away. Put pressure on them, never letting your stamina reach below a quarter. Keep fan daggers, or even smithscript daggers with the spreadshot ash of war to counter their use of spells. Chase and throw until they die.
its only really consistant if they dont do the l2 follow up after it. if they r1, pause, or roll, then its pretty easy. but with twinaxes, its super consistant
Pvp for noob is like gazing into nightsky for casual observer. It's beautifull and tempting. And then comes pro calculating angels, size of planets, rotations and poise.
If you think about it, hard swapping is an exploit of the inventory management system. If I’m being real, I’ve come to the conclusion that I’ll meet my opponent at the level they’re at. L2 spammers will eat a face full of waterfowl, hyperarmor bros will get range punished with consumables and ashes, running attackers will get traded with. I don’t want to win, I WANT TO DANCE WITH YOU. If you dance ugly or lame, so will I; show me something beautiful and you will witness true grace. Get parried + law of regression + learn roll discipline + respect neutral authority. Be safe my friends, and don’t you dare go hollow
i genuinely expected something to come up 'till the end, like im looking and like "hmm, I see the people I watch do these, i myself backstep backstabbed someone in the arena whilst i tried PvP. Hmm i wonder what it is, the exploit hmm"
Rare though it is, it always makes me respect someone who really knows how to backstab fish. I can't play sloppy around those people and that's nice for a change. Not that I'm good or the best but I recognize it. Great videos and content. Keep up the great work.
It’s all fun and games until the guy you were backstabbing teleports behind you and backstabs you while they’re in the backstab animation themselves Call it the backstab centipede
Rust I just started my PvP journey a few months ago now I’m fishing MFS left and right all your vids have helped me turn into a backstabbing shitter anyways Thankyou for making in depth PvP guides but I must know your tree spear build
It takes skill and a ton of time to learn all the movesets and what poise you need in order to pull this playstyle off. Idk, if someone lands a BS on me in pvp they instantly get my respect as imo that’s the biggest flex and has been since darksouls.
i get more whiffed backstab attempts that i get punished for than actual bavkstabs on pc and it maes me mad honestly, I can't believe how much of an issue latency is on pc
Honestly i was expecting to see myself in the video since ive ran into you recently but i think i must have failed to be backstabbed by you hahahhaha dam it!
these people have protagonist syndrome. they wanna log in 10 minutes a day and be as good as people who actually try to be good, getting mad when they see actual skill
Most casual players don't have a problem with backstab fishing (from my observations lol). What I see them complain about the most is movement teching ("siezure movement", "schizo movement", they throw out a lot of these terms to describe it) and hardswaps. The one valid point I'll see them make is that it looks visually unappealing and breaks immersion, but most of the time it will just be cope complaining about how their opponents are crutching and exploiting the game to gain an unfair advantage.
@@Rust_BKT It's a similar issue to extreme drag/accel swing manipulation in the melee genre looking ridiculous and scaring away new players. Cool looking gameplay and visual cohesion is what hooks new players to try the pvp in the first place so it's a pretty unfortunate issue to have.
That does mark the end of PvP. This video just ruined my night. I felt something fishy earlier and wondered how I got backstabbed. Makes sense now. Was why Ds1 was bad. Was a good run though.
Im not a fan of how some ppl treat this like a fighting game, use fighting game terminology, and take the absolute joke of "pvp" too seriously. but imagine actually being UPSET by how some one else presses buttons and wiggles their joystick. Ppl can play how they want wether we like it or not.
I have a particular bone to pick with how coop is handled in elden ring and how lobotomites invade on console but dawg.... its been 2 years.... HOW DO Y'ALL NOT UNDERSTAND IF YOU GET ANGLE CHECKED YOU'RE GONNA GET BACKSTABBED? ER pvp is only as complicated as you make it and if you hate a particular playstyle idk learn to combat it? Its not like you're a basic enemy fighting a DMC protagonist, they got the same tools you do, use em lol
Idk what to tell you, its not really am exploit, i would call it just running into it. It really does take a second to get a back stab off. They stop targeting when making certain movements they ABSOLUTELY should not be and thats all it takes. I get what they were going for with some of these but you need more distance or be ready to LOCK ON lol (so you can always face the opponent immediately after recovery or so on)
idk if youve heard of satire, but... but also, yes, if theyre rolling unlocked, then teh backstab is always free, but when the forward roll toward you, it works even if theyre locked on, same as older souls titles. technically, you can get the backstab if they roll in any direction, including straight backwards, but its a fucking pain to land it.
backstab exploit, roll catch exploit, hard swap exploit, this guy just doesn’t care!
Soft swap exploit too, he's using them to cut part of the recovery and run sooner, so he's clearly exploiting the game
he's literally holding roll and doing the run exploit
spacing exploit
The spam roll exploit won't save you here
ROLL CATCH EXPLOIT??????7?7?7?7???😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
“Why are you sweating so hard in colosseum just do invasions”
“Why are you sweating so hard in invasions we have colosseum for that”
people just don't know what they want.
The win doesn’t count if the fashion is bad 😤😤😤
@@WeeabooPocky Oh but people know exactly what they want: to not lose against another player, and not make any effort towards making the first wish true.
@@aelegriniv1649 sadly that seems to be the status quo of the souls community after ER released. They made sure that the game was accessible to the casuals at the expense of it's quality
"Why are you sweating so hard on a casual game mode? Go play a true competitive game"****
it’s literally worse than the rollcatch exploit
It's been in the game since dark souls 3😂😂😂😂😂
@@muramasa870he’s joking
"mad cause bad" - sun tzu
Ah yes the great "Art of Git Gud" lovely read.
bad cause bald, bald cause mad, and so on and so forth...
Rolling is technically an exploit of the I-frames
fuck, thats so based
Considering that with enough latency you are immune to rollcatching... that might actually be true, sadly
Not based at all. Exploit: to use someone or something unfairly for your own advantage. Rolling is meant to have i-frames.
Fromsoft did NOT mean for backstab glitching, or whatever you want to call it, to be a thing. Therefore, what he is doing is a malicious exploit.
@@leonardorossi998 😐😐😐😐😐😐😐😐😐😐😐😐😐😐😐😐😐😐😐😐😐😐😐😐😐
@@harrison1671this is no glitch. He just catches people when they are outside of I-frames. This is normal game mechanics.
These people would have HATED Dark Souls 3, where you could phase through someone and backstab them.
Lord help them if you show them Dark Souls 1 backstabs 😂
I saw this and was all, "hasn't it always been like this?"
Nah, they would feel right at home on the R1 spam fest that was Ds3, the real hate would be Ds2, no wonder they usually hate it the most...
@@vitorvena The dark souls 2 player cries out as it attacks you.
People hated the game because the game was dogshit dude it’s not hard to figure out.
chaos dagger irl (IN GAME)
@@bubbajoe117 even if i were to agree with you on the game being bad, the PvP was the best and most of the community agree atleast on that so your point doesnt apply here since were talking about PvP...
You need to touch some grass. Can you just enjoy game with 35 vigor and 2 overlevel phantoms like me? Unfollowed.
Yes can't forget the over level phantoms lol
Don’t forget the overlevelled phantoms
35 vigor for the average host? Methinks you be too generous.
We’re not all pussies lmao, ppl like you are why channels like this strive.
"You're not allowed to use backstabs because... you're just not. It's unfair. You're trying to win and it's hurtful. I should win because I deserve it. If you were a good person you would stop using backstabs and do only as I say."
How dare you unlock your camera during combat. Cheater detected! /s
“Kys” “maidenless behavior” “stop using exploits” always says the guy who spams ashes of war and spells and has no fundamentals whatsoever
its rather ironic isnt it
@@Rust_BKT can you make videos explaining what kind of playstyles are recommended for specific setups? Like sword of night off great katana, great shield and LGS, things like that it would be really appreciated.
Its never the people who play in an engaging way that get pissed, its always the people best equipped to deal with your playstyle that get mad. Ive watched people get mad at the shotgun crossbow, but the only way Ive been able to make the dang thing do actually reasonable work is when johnny swiftstep spam flies right by me so I can forcfully feed him 10 sleep bolts. Ive used a heal spell and the only people who get angry at it are mages despite them literally being the best equipped to shut down a heal. It baffles me how people get angry at something that they can so easily just stop.
this how MK players react when they touch their 2nd ever fighting game
@@naturessacrifice8265 this has always been the case in souls, really good players never complain because they understand how pvp functions work and how to play with them, casuals cry about RKSS, splitleaf, fish gaming, crossbows, swaps, etc., because that’s in their opinion , dishonest (and they don’t care that you need to study this for hundreds of hours, but they present it as something accessible only to you and you dishonestly use it against them).
It’s a pity, but this is how it was and how it will be, there will always be casuals who are not able to learn techniques and will point their fingers at those who have the skill to do so.
And we will tell them Git gud again
No one show them reverse circle strafe backstabbing in ds1
"And if you circle towards your opponent at a more horizontal angle, due to the latency you'll actually backstab them before they....."
the left shoulder charge though. It never made sense, but it almost always worked.
Okay, but the backstab at 0:44 was bull.
I got hit with a backstab yesterday after attempting to jump attack someone.. and as a mainly 2-D fighting game player as my "competitive" game of choice. I thought that was some badass shit!
Never do jump R2s if your opponent isn't locked in animation, the recovery is too long.
I came from DS1 Pvp and rolling forward was basically a free backstab in that game, so just don't do it. Especially if the other guy isn't in recovery.
Rip Elden ring skull emoji will be missed game of all time
bro u scared me for a moment there... nice montage tho
Killing your opponent is an exploit of HP loss.
thanks for uploading more backstabs as to my request
i was thinking of when you asked me this xD
@@Rust_BKT saw u chatting in steelovsky chat three days ago and @ed you to ask u to upload more backstabs pls lmao
I dont think ive met a crowd of people that needed to get told get gud more then anyone against backstabs
For real. Every time I've been back stabbed it's been entirely my fault.
These people wouldve hated literally any other from game that makes them learn how to play. And my god i dont know why people are so unbelievably salty about dying in games where that is the norm when they are usually 90% of the time using summons to make the game easier
its because they are allowed to make the game dramatically easier in almost every regard save for pvp where a competent player usually has a hard counter for anything they could try
its a reality check for a lot of people
Er is made for the population that won't adapt
@gadfli_1076 more like it's how back stab fishers don't fight their enemy, they fight against jank game mechanics
@@natethewerewolf skill issue im afraid
@gadfli_1076 preferances actually. But I know you have no concept of preferances, meta slave. I enjoy fighting someone who is fighting me. Not someone fighting the jank hit reg of backstabs.
"Just do Invasions"
"BET"
("nooooooo, he was supposed to be buthurt by this")
That last comment 😭😂 homies we are playing elden ring pvp not role playing as artists. Justify your preferences as you must but don’t lose sight of reality 🫶
Honestly, I get the sentiment in a way, there can happen some beautiful fights in this game.
Backstabs are hella beautiful…
Dark Souls 1 flash backs......
The just do invasions switch up was hard as fuck
People will say anything is an exploit in this game now, it’s like they’re traumatized after the fire’s deadly sin exploit all those years back
bro if i start seeing complaints about backstab fish in ER ima loose it
how is this new though? i've been doing this since release B)
been noticing a lot of these types of people. way more than usual, almost like its 2016 again. i think its the influx of new generation children becoming netizens. emotional, irrational, namecalling etc.
funny thing is ER is the hardest one to backstab compared to other souls games, at least for me. victim can easily recover from their animation, pc latency is crap because of EAC and other stuff, there’s jumping, crouching and all kinds of stuff, the combat is faster overall. whenever i see someone fishing and executing backstabs really easily i admire their skill, i wish i try more backstabs to have that in my repertoire. these ppl bitching about backstab “exploit” should go and try ds1.
its absolutely the most difficult when compared to other games. ER has extra checks in place to confirm the grab, so people have a much easier time escaping it than they did in previous titles
@@Rust_BKT technically isn't bloodbornes the most difficult to backstab?
@@theredeemer2974 yes
Well now I gotta try this for myself, cuz DAMN it would feel badass pulling that off
Smithscript cirque. First attack close in at a diagonal angle on their side, run-heavy, blind spot. Second attack, if they don't have a collosal sword, run up to them, jump over their head with a heavy-jump swing, following up with preferrably blondspot leading into two neutral swings. Third attack, run toward them, dodge past, either blind-spot, or one of the other two attacks previously mentioned, but in quick action.
Play it safe, you're able to counter nearly every attack with this weapon. For magic spam, get close to them, and never let them run away. Put pressure on them, never letting your stamina reach below a quarter. Keep fan daggers, or even smithscript daggers with the spreadshot ash of war to counter their use of spells. Chase and throw until they die.
that reverse step bs on the death knight axe was beautiful. exactly the kind of maidenless behavior to which I aspire.
The fact that the subreddit fell for this b8 is chef's kiss ez clap. I knew as soon as i saw the original thread there'd be a vid incoming
GG I was all of the reddit comments. Also boo
Princess Bride AND Zoidberg noises?! Thats it, im subbing.
The backstabs were cool too i guess.
Lmao I vortexed someone today with GK pokes (I’m not a super good player) and the person messaged me “nice job getting yourself blocked” like ok??
Insane
I would love to airdrop these guys into Darkroot Garden.
1:32 this.
now this is art
Backstabs went from being almost impossible to land to almost guaranteed with some setups
The longhaft backstab was crazy, I honestly never even considered it possible
1:30 if anybody is curious
its only really consistant if they dont do the l2 follow up after it. if they r1, pause, or roll, then its pretty easy. but with twinaxes, its super consistant
1:47, that recovery is criminal...
The fuckin Zoudberg sound
Lmao
For everyone wondering, this happens in other souls games as well. Hope this helps.
Pvp for noob is like gazing into nightsky for casual observer. It's beautifull and tempting. And then comes pro calculating angels, size of planets, rotations and poise.
If you think about it, hard swapping is an exploit of the inventory management system.
If I’m being real, I’ve come to the conclusion that I’ll meet my opponent at the level they’re at. L2 spammers will eat a face full of waterfowl, hyperarmor bros will get range punished with consumables and ashes, running attackers will get traded with. I don’t want to win, I WANT TO DANCE WITH YOU. If you dance ugly or lame, so will I; show me something beautiful and you will witness true grace. Get parried + law of regression + learn roll discipline + respect neutral authority.
Be safe my friends, and don’t you dare go hollow
*dies from cringe*
@@LP_Amadeus *pees on your thinkpad*
running attackers??? is that frowned upon now??
@@Frank-me2mh everything is frowned upon by someone
Rust AKA the Bucket, Scientist at night... Pivot exploiting backshot giver at erm also night..
Complaining about DS3 backstabs was ridiculous, complaining about ER backstabs? Idk what to tell.
i genuinely expected something to come up 'till the end, like im looking and like "hmm, I see the people I watch do these, i myself backstep backstabbed someone in the arena whilst i tried PvP. Hmm i wonder what it is, the exploit hmm"
on one hand, backstabs make for great punishes against poor spacing, on the other hand it does feel really bad to get asscaught
Rare though it is, it always makes me respect someone who really knows how to backstab fish. I can't play sloppy around those people and that's nice for a change. Not that I'm good or the best but I recognize it. Great videos and content. Keep up the great work.
I love when L2 losers complain when they aren't good enough to beat a person who can counter L2 cheese.
You had me going there at first. I thought you found some exploit to backstab.
Naw, the backstab is the exploit (real)
It’s all fun and games until the guy you were backstabbing teleports behind you and backstabs you while they’re in the backstab animation themselves
Call it the backstab centipede
backstabception
It's even funnier and gamier when you take turns failling to backstab the backstab attempt of the other guy
a "This is my boomstick" moment if I ever saw one
Rust I just started my PvP journey a few months ago now I’m fishing MFS left and right all your vids have helped me turn into a backstabbing shitter anyways Thankyou for making in depth PvP guides but I must know your tree spear build
ah, fishing has once again progressed to the point that you get hate for it and accused of lag stabs. time is a flat circle.
I don't know. I would say out of parrying and backstabs.Both are two very satisfying things to pull off....
1:48 that was sick
Why do I keep getting stabbed in the back??
Beacause its easy, and it does a lot of damage :)
Mans learned to backstab. Bravo 👏
@@artofwar420 thx its my first time :3
2:21 verrrry nice transition 👌🏾
Your video on that backstep talisman resulted in me landing the backstep backstab on multiple people its honestly so disrespectful 😭
Whenever i try backstab it plays the animation for me but not for them 😭😭😭
"if you don't want to get backstabbed, git gud" - art of war, sun tzu
i read the post... thats not backstab PHISHING (Thats how its spelled btw op) he did an empty roll in and got punished for it.
Phishing is a computer crime. You mean fishing.
It takes skill and a ton of time to learn all the movesets and what poise you need in order to pull this playstyle off. Idk, if someone lands a BS on me in pvp they instantly get my respect as imo that’s the biggest flex and has been since darksouls.
Sick beat: “Run behind me, backstab me, run behind me, backstab me. You’re a ******* joke.”
The curly woob woob woob was the highlight for me 😂
oh ok it's irony, my dumbass almost fell for it..
Goddammit its one of those lock-on exploiters. How dare you turn off your lock on and run behind me when I clearly missed an attack??!!!!
i get more whiffed backstab attempts that i get punished for than actual bavkstabs on pc and it maes me mad honestly, I can't believe how much of an issue latency is on pc
These people would implode if they saw a WaZeus video
that would be like showing a fish how to breath air
You just know that these people wouldnt say a thing if they could pull this off themselves
The funniest thing is that this is so hard to do they need to buff it, lol.
Being able to grab backside is the least maidenless thing out there. Everyone just whining cause they can't grab it themselves
great video Rust
Honestly i was expecting to see myself in the video since ive ran into you recently but i think i must have failed to be backstabbed by you hahahhaha dam it!
That Dark Souls vibe..
My 1 fear as a guy who loves to do r2 mix ups is a guy who actually knows how to backstab
Honestly I can't fully understand people being mad at this. I see these clips nd just think "damn I wanna be able to pull that off at some point"
these people have protagonist syndrome. they wanna log in 10 minutes a day and be as good as people who actually try to be good, getting mad when they see actual skill
aw hell, not the illegal backstab maneuver
For a moment I thought it was a video showing a real new exploit 😂
Simply amazing.
Ah yes, backstab fishing. The most optimal playstyle benig abused by only the filthiest of tryhards. I could never...
this is Dark Souls 1 backstab tech all over again
I thought this vid was serious, and it got my timbers shivering.
Most casual players don't have a problem with backstab fishing (from my observations lol). What I see them complain about the most is movement teching ("siezure movement", "schizo movement", they throw out a lot of these terms to describe it) and hardswaps. The one valid point I'll see them make is that it looks visually unappealing and breaks immersion, but most of the time it will just be cope complaining about how their opponents are crutching and exploiting the game to gain an unfair advantage.
i dont know how anyone could prefer having pvp be more one dimensional and actively want it to have less mechanical depth. that sounds so boring,.
@@Rust_BKT It's a similar issue to extreme drag/accel swing manipulation in the melee genre looking ridiculous and scaring away new players. Cool looking gameplay and visual cohesion is what hooks new players to try the pvp in the first place so it's a pretty unfortunate issue to have.
That back step to backstab was pure swag!! 😮-oohhhh 😮-oohhhh!!
You really just did a "2 hands katar/cipher pata&blocks"
So this is what ultra instinct looks like in Elden Ring
Gotta get my reps in I made my hefty pots now I gotta learn this lmao
That does mark the end of PvP. This video just ruined my night. I felt something fishy earlier and wondered how I got backstabbed. Makes sense now. Was why Ds1 was bad. Was a good run though.
ha. haha. fishy :D
The invasion cut 😂
such beautiful fishing it brought a tear to my eye...you made art with your opponent all right
Im not a fan of how some ppl treat this like a fighting game, use fighting game terminology, and take the absolute joke of "pvp" too seriously. but imagine actually being UPSET by how some one else presses buttons and wiggles their joystick. Ppl can play how they want wether we like it or not.
just a fisherman in a farming simulator
In TF2, we call this “trick stabbing” 😏
You won using backstabs? INCONCEIVABLE!!!!!!
anybody want a peanut?
Nah we love to see this shit , keep em coming 🫶🏼🔥
I have a particular bone to pick with how coop is handled in elden ring and how lobotomites invade on console but dawg.... its been 2 years.... HOW DO Y'ALL NOT UNDERSTAND IF YOU GET ANGLE CHECKED YOU'RE GONNA GET BACKSTABBED? ER pvp is only as complicated as you make it and if you hate a particular playstyle idk learn to combat it? Its not like you're a basic enemy fighting a DMC protagonist, they got the same tools you do, use em lol
Idk what to tell you, its not really am exploit, i would call it just running into it. It really does take a second to get a back stab off. They stop targeting when making certain movements they ABSOLUTELY should not be and thats all it takes. I get what they were going for with some of these but you need more distance or be ready to LOCK ON lol (so you can always face the opponent immediately after recovery or so on)
idk if youve heard of satire, but...
but also, yes, if theyre rolling unlocked, then teh backstab is always free, but when the forward roll toward you, it works even if theyre locked on, same as older souls titles. technically, you can get the backstab if they roll in any direction, including straight backwards, but its a fucking pain to land it.