I wanted to listen to what you had to say but the constant music made it impossible. I can't understand why there would be so much terrible sounding music when I can't hear what you're saying. Mystifies me why anyone would do this.
It’s why I practiced Goju Ryu for most of my life and then extended to Bajiquan, hopefully I get to learn Long Fist, Mizongyi and White Crane later on. This is a great lesson
I think your comment about leaving the other styles at the door is spot on. I've trained several styles over the years before eventually settling into chen taijquan. At some point, there are only so many hours in the day to train, so the other stuff has kind of fallen away over time as far as complete systems go, but some concepts and movements I have hung on to that are very compatible with me. I have always left my previous style at the door. I have a friend who was unable to do that, and as a result, old concepts get in the way of understanding new ones. If he sees a movement that looks similar or a concept that at first glance seems similar, he assumes he already understands it from a previous style. Sometimes he does, often he doesn't and then misses the nuances that make each style's approach unique. When I am learning, I try to forget the similarities and understand it from the new style's perspective as if I've never seen it before for a long time (lots of practice time, sometimes years) before I feel "safe" about going back and comparing it with what I already know. After taking my time on comparisons so I am clear about the differences and similarities, then I can use both and consider what works better just for me, personally, or how to tweak new ideas that work with my personality into the old material. Every person has to build their own style in the end, even if they only study one style, or they are just imitating. When learning and practicing different styles, it is like driving different vehicles that are built differently and have different approaches. You don't want to drive a dump truck like a Ferrari, but both are useful and powerful in their own ways. Later when you understand how to build the vehicles, then it is appropriate to build a unique vehicle of your own.
It depends on what styles you wish to train. My main style is Chen style Taijiquan but I also did Judo (also some TKD and a little Nan Quan when I was younger). I consider myself a hybrid practitioner of Taijiquan and Judo; it works because these 2 styles are complementary. I would have a lot more problems if I wanted to learn a different Kung Fu style because I would have to unlearn and uncondition a lot of what I did in Taijiquan in order to take on new fundamentals - and if I managed it successfully I may end up being proficient at a second style but a worse Taijiquan practitioner for it. Judo is great as an add-on to Taijiquan is it is largely 'silent' when it comes to 'internals', and it offers so many techniques for different situations where Taijiquan does not focus on. I can see practitioners of various Kung Fu styles learning another Martial Art that does not conflict with their 'Mother Art', but trying to learn 2 styles with different fundamental requirements would not be productive unless you aim to largely abandon the earlier art or seek to come to your own understanding and develop your own version of fundamentals/internals.
I think that's a very good point. Something like Judo, Muay Thai or BJJ is a good supplement to a traditional system. That said, it still comes down to the same issue of how much time do you have to train per week. Can you train enough to divide your time and still make gains?
This year I started training at the Academy of Chinese Martial Arts in South Africa by the only master in the continent in 7 Star Mantis Kung fu. His sifu is Sifu Derek Frearson who trained under Lee Kam Wing. I started attending his Yang style Taijiquan because of high blood pressure scares and to reduce stress. Then I learnt he taught 7 Star Mantis and I tried it out and eventually stuck to it because i began to love it. Later on in the year I started attending his Foshan Wing Chun classes as well. The biggest motivator is attending as many classes as possible for fitness and conditioning. And my only regret is that I didn't attend Wing Chun at the beginning like the others because all three styles teach me about the other and helps me understand things the way the other couldn't. Taijiquan helped me develop way better balance and conditioned my ankles and taught me valuable qigong exercises as well. But I struggled to relax my shoulders which made me struggle to do taiji stepping, 5 elements and 21 step forms. Wing chun is what helped me understand how to relax my shoulders while moving my arms which made my taijiquan balance more correct which is a fundamental of taijiquan. 7 Star Mantis improved my cardio tremendously and includes the forms I love doing so much. And learning the applications in mantis helped me to recognise applications of moves in the forms of Taijiquan and Wing Chun. Wing Chun engages my muscles I use when bringing my elbows inwards to my body, taught me centring my kicks and punches and we do boxing in that class as well because we often spar, which is what helps me apply moves I learn in the other two martial arts. All three seem pretty complimentary to me but I think what is a major contribution to that is that they are all taught by one teacher. I am sure if I trained at three different teachers, their philosophies would conflict with each other, which would confuse the hell out of me. But I would say that cross training with other styles so once in a while, like an excursion almost, something our school does as well on occasion, will help you learn new tricks and teach you about your own style as well.
🎯 On point, I agree with about 98,5%. I love all of the Chinese internal arts (ok, most of them). I started with Tai Chi Chuan, but I have also studied Xingyi and several Bagua variants for many years. At one point I came to realize that I needed to make a choice. if I wanted to really bring up my Tai Chi to the next level and have the chance to become excellent in my art, I would have to abandon the other arts I practiced. There is just no time to master several arts, you need to put all of your time, effort and focus on one single goal. But above all, you need to understand what you really want, because it all boils down to if you can be true and honest to yourself.
You have a lot of good things to say about this subject. I agree with pretty much everything. However, some of this is personality and some is age and physical limitations. This is my 50th year in MAs. I have a black belt in American Kenpo and I really believe in the teaching methods and theories of movement. But, as you say, I did one style at a time for the most part. I think it takes no less than 2 years before you can begin to understand a style so I say I dabbled in a lot of things but, I have a very good understanding of Kenpo, Hung Gar, and Eagle Claw. But, now that I am older and have a lot of health issues I study and practice the internal arts because I just can't do the Fan Zi movements of Eagle Claw or the hard striking and blocking of Hung Gar. The most important thing to me is to keep training. Just keep training and love the journey!
I believe that training in multiple martial arts should be done after you have ONE style to a good level, that usually happends after 4 years of regular training. -And yes, you have to be clear on why you want to do this before hand (building a particular skill not covered in depth in your main art or you want to learn from a particular instructor because of his approach or for research or for fun, whatever reason, should be clear from the start.
Yes. It's easy to become a" jack of all trades and a master of none." I know quite a few of those. I did try another style but found that my mother style is so ingrained after near 20yrs. I train a version of Mianquan, a formless CIMA with a distinct way of relaxed striking & fajin, mainly focused on elbow combinations. So it felt so restrictive to try and then learn forms and be all mechanical, that I stopped a few months in, as it was too opposite. I did not want to lose my flowing Mianquan Skills, only to add to them & that wasn't happening how I imagined it would. They wanted to reinvent my wheel so I rolled on out of there. ☯️
I like that "visiting friends" is a phase we go through. Reminds me of the first lines of Lunyu. Here's some more Confucian ideas this connected to for me: whether it's Chinese martial arts or other martial arts and martial-adjacent stuff, even with today's online learning courses, I think people that stick with this journey get shaped by what happens to be accessible to them. But I think the best is, if you have a good foundation, you can learn something valuable from what you have around (even if it's what to avoid, sometimes). Basically, everyone needs to start with Tan Tui or something like that 😆
Yes, absolutely, you should train in multiple styles. The main reason is that both your mind and body change over the years. For example when I was young I became 1st Dan in Tae Kwon Do, and as I was approaching 30, I wasn't able to kick like a 20 year old man anymore, so I tried Kenpo, which I stuck with for the next 15 years and got to 2nd Dan. After 10 years of no protection fighting in Kenpo, it was getting hard to do the material because of injuries over time, so I switched to Choy Li Fut kung fu and Chen Tai Chi, which both were less brutal than Kenpo. And I've been doing that for about 10 years or so. And there is another reason. Sometimes events happen beyond your control, like your school closes down, you move to another city and so on, or you might find that your teacher is a charlatan, and I'm sure there are other reasons that you cannot control. You can't just stay at home and quit training because your school closed down for example.
I have trained the same style for 30 years, and I am learning new things every day. To be fair, I had a long period of plateau. However, it was only by continuing to polish the diamond stone that it began to shine. Diamond cuts diamond.
I studied Taekwondo, Judo, what was called Shaolin Kung Fu, Goju Ryu, Hapkido, Shotokan, Ninjutsu. What I discovered was at a young age I was very good at Taekwondo, but perhaps more natural with Judo. So it shaped my future practice rather than doing things I just couldn't or didn't want to fit into.
I totally agree with the "leave your other styles at the door" but I think it is also useful to bring it up if it helps you better understand what you're doing. I do agree it's a bit rude to do it too often and it also distracts you from what you're actually training. But some times it might help. My main things are Fatsan Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut (less forms and longer ones than other branches of CLF) and Yang style Taijiquan. I started with CLF, slowly picked up Taiji and then started to do that seriously (my sifu teaches both). I recently started to learn Baguazhang (not sure which style, it's a bit of a mix) and it's definitely a change.
You need to be able to do everything. So cross training is a must. Ultimately, everything we do comes down to the same universal human movement. The body is only capable of a few limited actions. If you are able to understand and apply human movement then you essentially practice every style.
As a Professional Martial Arts Teacher, I've run into people for decades now, who will tell me they did Wing Chun for 2 year's, and Tae Kwon Do for 3 year's, and Krav Maga for 9 months. Basically, they got a Bunch of Nothing ‼️🤔 When I was fully committed to training and learning back in the 80's, my Summer Vacation time was spent training with my Instructors, 7 Days a week, for 10 to 12 Hour's a day. I did this every Summer between the ages of 16 to 18. When I became an Assistant Instructor in the Jow Ga system in July of 1987, I taught 6 Days a week, 4 Hours per day, then get taught New material for another 2 Hours. You have to understand the essence of a particular style, which normally takes about 3 to 4 years. Once you've gained a significant level of proficiency in a particular system, then I believe you start to branch out to other styles. You must also remember that, your training doesn't Stop because your class has ended with your Sifu/Shifu. You still need to be training on your own at home. I don't mean just practicing the various Forms, Techniques in the privacy of your home. I mean 24/7/365 Living as a Martial Artist. Thinking of application's while you're waiting for the Bus. Forming your Hands into various Clawing positions while sitting riding to your destination. Secretly practicing Kicking Techniques to the Shin that no one would notice what you are doing. This is what Will is talking about when he says, you have to immerse yourself into the System/Style of your choice in order to gain the benefits of that style.🤔🤔🤔
Good Advice. I have practiced. Wing Chun, Yi quan/da Cheng Quan and currently Tung Kong Chow Gar. I have been intrested in Dai xin Yi, Kaimen Baji quan , Choy li fut, pak mei, and others.. have read and watched their principles.
Great advice. My main focus is Goju-ryu. With that in mind, when I travel to Kùnyŭshān I'll be supplementing my current knowledge with Săndă and Tàijíquán. The idea is that Chinese kickboxing improves my sparring skills and knowledge of wrestling to improve the already existing throws and sweeps in karate. I'll also be learning Tàijíquán for a mindful and internal practice that I'd like to adopt into my life to help with releasing tension and improving recovery. May be learning Xíngyìquán as well, but it might be a bit much on top of everything else. Only feedback for the video Will, if you don't mind me saying, is the music was a bit distracting. Cheers! Hope you are doing well.
First began training in My Jhong Law Horn, when I turned 19 went into service got stationed in CA and trained Hung Sing CLF. Training there helped with my Kung Fu overall hoping to go back out there and test for my brown sash sometime in the future.
Visiting friends was kind of a funny term. I know from old japanese texts, that people tended to do some kind of knight-errant. There the fighters would wander the land in search of adventures to prove his chivalric virtues, either in knightly duels or in some other pursuit. It is a key point of the musashi story too, where people leave the security of their school and family in order to pressure test their skills in a no holds barred environment. This way a lot of japanese were wandering around in china, korea and other countries. I think in kung fu i only know of the story of Liu Yunqiao wandering with Li Shu Wen and Ip Man sending his closest disciples after teaching to the mainland to his kung fu brothers for giving them the last touch
Training Japanese Jujutsu and Gongfu. My primary art I'm training is Takagi Yoshin Ryu, also working to get back into regular BJJ training. As for Kung Fu, I kept my White Crane form that I learned through Karate, but let the rest of the Karate forms go as I want to make my body a Gongfu body, not a ridged hard karate body. I'm on my second style of Tai chi, Chen style, which I enjoy and put into everything I do. I'm learning my second style of Bagua, and to round out the 3 I took up Xingyi which is easy to understand from my previous Karate and Gongfu background. My capstone style is Drunken Boxing as all my other training meshes very well with Drunken Boxing, though the Drunken style has it's on sloshing energy which is very fun to work with, the Chin style Fajin can be used at anytime during drunken movement. I've found that it helps me to recognize similar movements and techniques using similar energies, but not to interfere with learning as a full cup spills over. Anyone starting out fresh I think it's best to focus on one style for at least three or so years, somewhere near black belt level, after you understand your system and can use it effectively. Though I would recommend that every does at least some BJJ/ground fighting which includes live rolling/randori, and I think BJJ can be learned at the same time as standup arts, though this depends on the person. Ground fighting especially in the US has become so popular now that I think it's a most know at least in terms of defense and standing back up to fight or move, technical standup being one of the best techniques to stand up from ground grappling.
my wing chun sifu was pretty old school, from HK, but he always encouraged his students to go out and learn other styles. Only thing is he did not want students to do other styles during the classes or inside the school. But that school had people from all kinds of background, boxing, xing yi, bagua, hung gar kuen, clf, etc. Maybe WC is different when it comes to that. Maybe because of bruce's influence, a lot of the people teaching it have a modern approach.
As a polyglot who learns multiple languages simultaneously, as well as a martial artist who learns and practises multiple styles, I agree that you should leave your other concepts at the proverbial door. However, learning multiple languages allows you to develop the skill to switch languages fluidly. Much in the same way, I have found that if you DO have the time to dedicate to a few hours a week of multiple styles, you can learn to switch and integrate them fluidly.
I understand what you are saying and I think there are two approaches to this; one is to embrace that it is a specific style being taught, technically unique to a particular master and time, and an other is to embrace that no student will ever express the exact same style. Imo I like to understand why I do things, say I learned one mabu and then getting exposed to another I would naturally dig into the differences and try to understand the nuances. I would question why they are different and I would compare them just like a compare the nature of a teep and a front kick. If I was your student I would hope you do not take my inquiries personal and if I was told to not compare different techniques you would kill my joy to learn from your art. My inquiries are not to be seen as your challenges - they are mine. It is my path and I respect yours and thank you for sharing it. I don't know if this is relevant, and your opinions might differ on this topic, but most people struggle with egoes and they do so because they do not understand what we are; the ego is a manifestation of a case of mistaken identity, say feelings, thoughts, opinions.. and this 'persona' has a sense of self-perservation such that we can feel threatened when it is actually the ego that is threatened, we can defend it because we think we are it. We can "lose face" and struggle with our egoes for as long as we have them. It would be more correct, imo, to say that we are the experiencers, the observers, the consciousness, and if we want to remain who we are we have to avoid grabbing, holding on to, and investing ourselves into feelings and thoughts and opinions.. tldr. I studied five languages simultaneously while I grew up abroad and I became fluent in three of them, others did significantly better. The best way to really learn a language (and its culture) is to attend a school that teaches all the other subjects in that language. /end rant
For sure, I agree with you completely on that. Of course we should ask questions and try to understand the reason why something is done the way it is. But that’s different from learning x style and constantly interrupting your teacher to talk about y style. Regarding your language study, that is indeed very impressive!
Yeah, it would have been easier for me if they had skipped at least one. Five at a time was confusing for my brain. It is also remarkable how much my local language improved by attending a local school when I was already fluent. Oh well, :)
The other thing is, you do not know if the master knows. So he can basically bullshido you and take your money without you knowing if you ever gonna learn to fight which is only taught if you are taken indoors after showing moral value and loyalty in many kung fu and karate styles for many years. Thats the reasons you have another concept in china some people call seed fist, you basically sow a few styles. If you are intelligent you sow seeds where the plants are supporting each other, that is called Companion planting in natural gardening (kung fu is a farmer sport after all). This way things like hung gar came to be, where you have shaolin animal styles combined with 8 daoist immortals in order for hard and soft to support each other. Thing is that the styles are not exactly unique to a particular master and time, but you have to reach certain achievements for your style or the strategy your style has. Take for example fat Tae Kwon Do practitoner, he most likely never gonna have the speed and the jumping power he needs for most kicks to be a worthy opponent. And skinny small sumo practitioner might not be suited to go full force against his bigger and heavier opponents that just need to fall on him.
Gaining the achievements a style requires usually takes years for your body to develop, a thing that you would most likely not reach if you interrupt your specific training constantly by changing or mixing. I mean try to copy the charging power of sumo wrestlers from this low stance you can watch in the japanese tournaments. Or the height of these crazy tae kwon do jumps.
Even within the "same style" you should respect the teacher's instruction during the lesson. eg, in my Judo class we have a few instructors from different generations/experience with different teaching styles and emphasis. You simply get a lot more out of it by trying what they're teaching, even if, or especially if, what they're teaching is different from what you prefer. It trains the mind to be flexible.
yes, cross training can keep you out from cult mentality & martial fraudsters. sometimes it's also fun discussing & exchanging experience from another MA with your teacher, but outside of the practice hours
As everyone seems to pretty much agree, the answer is yes, you absolutely should, but you need to reach a high level in at least one of them, otherwise you are wasting your time. I have always had a bit of a gripe with the famous Bruce Lee line "Take what is useful, discard what is useless, and add what is uniquely your own" because Lee left off the important caveat that you need to know what is and isn't useful before you can start doing that, which is a process that can easily take a decade. As an internal artist, if I had a dollar for every time I have seen someone online write a comment along the lines of "That's bull****!" about the technique of someone I respected, I would be able to quit my job and train full time. You need a high level of skill to be able judge what is and is not useful, and even then you might not be able to if it is radically different from what you know. P.S. As a polyglot who has studied multiple languages at the same time before, it's possible but I wouldn't recommend it to a new language learner. If you want to pick a fourth and fifth language at the same time, go knock yourself out, but be warned that you will be more likely to confuse those two, I am still trying to get the Norwegian out of my German....
Thank you! Here's something that I've struggled with - From the beginning of my training, wanted to become a teacher. But, if you want to be a teacher, then you have to stick to one style for a determinate number of years to reach a point of mastery that warrants being able to take on students. However, sticking to learning only one system seems a little difficult these days because people move around so much. Teachers move away, students have to take jobs far away, etc. If I could have chained my first Sifu to a wall, I would have had him long enough to master the first system I started with, rather than go into other arts in order to find really good teachers. Can you become a legit Sifu with different arts in your background rather than a vast experience in one art?
What's the impact of any particular style on your body and mind as your situation changes? Your age, health, and environment are factors in what you practice or what you're drawn to try. Great video.
It's my understanding that quite a few Chinese styles have Tan Tui as a common base. Maybe even that students are expected to have learnt Tan Tui as a general thing before being taken on by a master of a specific style. Not too sure on this though.
Basically every kung fu style has some form of explosive legs forms. Tan Tui was popularized by the chin woo athletic association. To be a serious fighter you need some stamina, strength and explosiveness. Tan Tui is a northern thing, developed by a muslim soldier to strengthen the legs. The southern styles usually use some kind of dance like unicorn or lion dance for this purpose. Actually the northern styles tend to teach Tan Tui as fundamental conditioning before actually style teaching, while the southern styles tend to teach it afterwards.
You have in china a number of fighting theories that are expressed by different terms and the related actions that are connected to the theories of the term like Liu He, Qi Xin, Mei Hua, Taiji etc. Basically Taiji Mantis is such a hybrid of Mantis boxing combined with the theory of ying and yang. So they compress and expand a lot which they express in coiling or rolling movements additional to the mantis techniques. Some say it is not really comparable to Taiji (Tai Chi) Chuan, but they are featuring some techniques like the folding of daoist boxing styles. And rather try do to soft things like parry instead of hard blocks and forcing.
It is easy to mistake the style cause a lot of old people add to Tai Chi Chuan the Mantis Style cause most techniques are grounded and suited for old folks.
Its better to train a Hybrid Martial Art. For example Jeet Kune Do which consists of Punching, Kicking, Trapping and Grappling and its a complete fighting system. Training in martial arts like Taekwondo, Karate might waste time. A lot of traditional martial arts have lose effectiveness.
Get 10% off everything in my new online store, monkeyofferspeach.com by using the voucher LETSGOOKINAWA
I wanted to listen to what you had to say but the constant music made it impossible. I can't understand why there would be so much terrible sounding music when I can't hear what you're saying. Mystifies me why anyone would do this.
The good thing about learning from other styles and systems is that you can pick up things that would not be found in the first style you trained
It’s why I practiced Goju Ryu for most of my life and then extended to Bajiquan, hopefully I get to learn Long Fist, Mizongyi and White Crane later on.
This is a great lesson
I think your comment about leaving the other styles at the door is spot on. I've trained several styles over the years before eventually settling into chen taijquan. At some point, there are only so many hours in the day to train, so the other stuff has kind of fallen away over time as far as complete systems go, but some concepts and movements I have hung on to that are very compatible with me. I have always left my previous style at the door. I have a friend who was unable to do that, and as a result, old concepts get in the way of understanding new ones. If he sees a movement that looks similar or a concept that at first glance seems similar, he assumes he already understands it from a previous style. Sometimes he does, often he doesn't and then misses the nuances that make each style's approach unique. When I am learning, I try to forget the similarities and understand it from the new style's perspective as if I've never seen it before for a long time (lots of practice time, sometimes years) before I feel "safe" about going back and comparing it with what I already know. After taking my time on comparisons so I am clear about the differences and similarities, then I can use both and consider what works better just for me, personally, or how to tweak new ideas that work with my personality into the old material. Every person has to build their own style in the end, even if they only study one style, or they are just imitating. When learning and practicing different styles, it is like driving different vehicles that are built differently and have different approaches. You don't want to drive a dump truck like a Ferrari, but both are useful and powerful in their own ways. Later when you understand how to build the vehicles, then it is appropriate to build a unique vehicle of your own.
It depends on what styles you wish to train. My main style is Chen style Taijiquan but I also did Judo (also some TKD and a little Nan Quan when I was younger). I consider myself a hybrid practitioner of Taijiquan and Judo; it works because these 2 styles are complementary. I would have a lot more problems if I wanted to learn a different Kung Fu style because I would have to unlearn and uncondition a lot of what I did in Taijiquan in order to take on new fundamentals - and if I managed it successfully I may end up being proficient at a second style but a worse Taijiquan practitioner for it.
Judo is great as an add-on to Taijiquan is it is largely 'silent' when it comes to 'internals', and it offers so many techniques for different situations where Taijiquan does not focus on. I can see practitioners of various Kung Fu styles learning another Martial Art that does not conflict with their 'Mother Art', but trying to learn 2 styles with different fundamental requirements would not be productive unless you aim to largely abandon the earlier art or seek to come to your own understanding and develop your own version of fundamentals/internals.
I think that's a very good point. Something like Judo, Muay Thai or BJJ is a good supplement to a traditional system. That said, it still comes down to the same issue of how much time do you have to train per week. Can you train enough to divide your time and still make gains?
This year I started training at the Academy of Chinese Martial Arts in South Africa by the only master in the continent in 7 Star Mantis Kung fu. His sifu is Sifu Derek Frearson who trained under Lee Kam Wing. I started attending his Yang style Taijiquan because of high blood pressure scares and to reduce stress. Then I learnt he taught 7 Star Mantis and I tried it out and eventually stuck to it because i began to love it. Later on in the year I started attending his Foshan Wing Chun classes as well. The biggest motivator is attending as many classes as possible for fitness and conditioning. And my only regret is that I didn't attend Wing Chun at the beginning like the others because all three styles teach me about the other and helps me understand things the way the other couldn't. Taijiquan helped me develop way better balance and conditioned my ankles and taught me valuable qigong exercises as well. But I struggled to relax my shoulders which made me struggle to do taiji stepping, 5 elements and 21 step forms. Wing chun is what helped me understand how to relax my shoulders while moving my arms which made my taijiquan balance more correct which is a fundamental of taijiquan. 7 Star Mantis improved my cardio tremendously and includes the forms I love doing so much. And learning the applications in mantis helped me to recognise applications of moves in the forms of Taijiquan and Wing Chun. Wing Chun engages my muscles I use when bringing my elbows inwards to my body, taught me centring my kicks and punches and we do boxing in that class as well because we often spar, which is what helps me apply moves I learn in the other two martial arts. All three seem pretty complimentary to me but I think what is a major contribution to that is that they are all taught by one teacher. I am sure if I trained at three different teachers, their philosophies would conflict with each other, which would confuse the hell out of me. But I would say that cross training with other styles so once in a while, like an excursion almost, something our school does as well on occasion, will help you learn new tricks and teach you about your own style as well.
Yes. As the saying goes, " learn as much as you can when you're young but focus only on the techniques you're good at when you are older.
🎯 On point, I agree with about 98,5%. I love all of the Chinese internal arts (ok, most of them). I started with Tai Chi Chuan, but I have also studied Xingyi and several Bagua variants for many years. At one point I came to realize that I needed to make a choice. if I wanted to really bring up my Tai Chi to the next level and have the chance to become excellent in my art, I would have to abandon the other arts I practiced. There is just no time to master several arts, you need to put all of your time, effort and focus on one single goal. But above all, you need to understand what you really want, because it all boils down to if you can be true and honest to yourself.
You have a lot of good things to say about this subject. I agree with pretty much everything. However, some of this is personality and some is age and physical limitations. This is my 50th year in MAs. I have a black belt in American Kenpo and I really believe in the teaching methods and theories of movement. But, as you say, I did one style at a time for the most part. I think it takes no less than 2 years before you can begin to understand a style so I say I dabbled in a lot of things but, I have a very good understanding of Kenpo, Hung Gar, and Eagle Claw. But, now that I am older and have a lot of health issues I study and practice the internal arts because I just can't do the Fan Zi movements of Eagle Claw or the hard striking and blocking of Hung Gar. The most important thing to me is to keep training. Just keep training and love the journey!
I believe that training in multiple martial arts should be done after you have ONE style to a good level, that usually happends after 4 years of regular training. -And yes, you have to be clear on why you want to do this before hand (building a particular skill not covered in depth in your main art or you want to learn from a particular instructor because of his approach or for research or for fun, whatever reason, should be clear from the start.
Yea, I think around 4 years is a pretty decent amount of time before looking at other styles
Yes. It's easy to become a" jack of all trades and a master of none."
I know quite a few of those.
I did try another style but found that my mother style is so ingrained after near 20yrs.
I train a version of Mianquan, a formless CIMA with a distinct way of relaxed striking & fajin, mainly focused on elbow combinations.
So it felt so restrictive to try and then learn forms and be all mechanical, that I stopped a few months in, as it was too opposite.
I did not want to lose my flowing Mianquan Skills, only to add to them & that wasn't happening how I imagined it would.
They wanted to reinvent my wheel so I rolled on out of there. ☯️
I like that "visiting friends" is a phase we go through. Reminds me of the first lines of Lunyu. Here's some more Confucian ideas this connected to for me: whether it's Chinese martial arts or other martial arts and martial-adjacent stuff, even with today's online learning courses, I think people that stick with this journey get shaped by what happens to be accessible to them. But I think the best is, if you have a good foundation, you can learn something valuable from what you have around (even if it's what to avoid, sometimes). Basically, everyone needs to start with Tan Tui or something like that 😆
Liked the talk! The format of talking while drinking tea is really good. I might slightly lower the volume on the background music tho!
Yea, the volume seems to have crept up on one track after exporting the file. Apologies for that.
Yes, absolutely, you should train in multiple styles. The main reason is that both your mind and body change over the years. For example when I was young I became 1st Dan in Tae Kwon Do, and as I was approaching 30, I wasn't able to kick like a 20 year old man anymore, so I tried Kenpo, which I stuck with for the next 15 years and got to 2nd Dan.
After 10 years of no protection fighting in Kenpo, it was getting hard to do the material because of injuries over time, so I switched to Choy Li Fut kung fu and Chen Tai Chi, which both were less brutal than Kenpo. And I've been doing that for about 10 years or so.
And there is another reason. Sometimes events happen beyond your control, like your school closes down, you move to another city and so on, or you might find that your teacher is a charlatan, and I'm sure there are other reasons that you cannot control. You can't just stay at home and quit training because your school closed down for example.
I have trained the same style for 30 years, and I am learning new things every day. To be fair, I had a long period of plateau. However, it was only by continuing to polish the diamond stone that it began to shine. Diamond cuts diamond.
Completely agree!
Very well said. The way to really acquire any art is to live it.
I studied Taekwondo, Judo, what was called Shaolin Kung Fu, Goju Ryu, Hapkido, Shotokan, Ninjutsu. What I discovered was at a young age I was very good at Taekwondo, but perhaps more natural with Judo. So it shaped my future practice rather than doing things I just couldn't or didn't want to fit into.
I totally agree with the "leave your other styles at the door" but I think it is also useful to bring it up if it helps you better understand what you're doing. I do agree it's a bit rude to do it too often and it also distracts you from what you're actually training. But some times it might help. My main things are Fatsan Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut (less forms and longer ones than other branches of CLF) and Yang style Taijiquan. I started with CLF, slowly picked up Taiji and then started to do that seriously (my sifu teaches both). I recently started to learn Baguazhang (not sure which style, it's a bit of a mix) and it's definitely a change.
You need to be able to do everything. So cross training is a must.
Ultimately, everything we do comes down to the same universal human movement. The body is only capable of a few limited actions. If you are able to understand and apply human movement then you essentially practice every style.
As a Professional Martial Arts Teacher, I've run into people for decades now, who will tell me they did Wing Chun for 2 year's, and Tae Kwon Do for 3 year's, and Krav Maga for 9 months. Basically, they got a Bunch of Nothing ‼️🤔 When I was fully committed to training and learning back in the 80's, my Summer Vacation time was spent training with my Instructors, 7 Days a week, for 10 to 12 Hour's a day. I did this every Summer between the ages of 16 to 18. When I became an Assistant Instructor in the Jow Ga system in July of 1987, I taught 6 Days a week, 4 Hours per day, then get taught New material for another 2 Hours.
You have to understand the essence of a particular style, which normally takes about 3 to 4 years. Once you've gained a significant level of proficiency in a particular system, then I believe you start to branch out to other styles. You must also remember that, your training doesn't Stop because your class has ended with your Sifu/Shifu. You still need to be training on your own at home. I don't mean just practicing the various Forms, Techniques in the privacy of your home. I mean 24/7/365 Living as a Martial Artist. Thinking of application's while you're waiting for the Bus. Forming your Hands into various Clawing positions while sitting riding to your destination. Secretly practicing Kicking Techniques to the Shin that no one would notice what you are doing.
This is what Will is talking about when he says, you have to immerse yourself into the System/Style of your choice in order to gain the benefits of that style.🤔🤔🤔
Good Advice. I have practiced. Wing Chun, Yi quan/da Cheng Quan and currently Tung Kong Chow Gar. I have been intrested in Dai xin Yi, Kaimen Baji quan , Choy li fut, pak mei, and others.. have read and watched their principles.
Great advice. My main focus is Goju-ryu. With that in mind, when I travel to Kùnyŭshān I'll be supplementing my current knowledge with Săndă and Tàijíquán. The idea is that Chinese kickboxing improves my sparring skills and knowledge of wrestling to improve the already existing throws and sweeps in karate. I'll also be learning Tàijíquán for a mindful and internal practice that I'd like to adopt into my life to help with releasing tension and improving recovery. May be learning Xíngyìquán as well, but it might be a bit much on top of everything else. Only feedback for the video Will, if you don't mind me saying, is the music was a bit distracting. Cheers! Hope you are doing well.
Was the music too loud? I was just trying to soften up the audio a bit
@MonkeyStealsPeach Loud at times but I think maybe just a bit too energetic. Haha I could just be autistic. Might be worth getting a second opinion.
@@MonkeyStealsPeach The music was not too loud but the voices in the music were distracting and disturbing the concentration.
First began training in My Jhong Law Horn, when I turned 19 went into service got stationed in CA and trained Hung Sing CLF. Training there helped with my Kung Fu overall hoping to go back out there and test for my brown sash sometime in the future.
Visiting friends was kind of a funny term. I know from old japanese texts, that people tended to do some kind of knight-errant. There the fighters would wander the land in search of adventures to prove his chivalric virtues, either in knightly duels or in some other pursuit. It is a key point of the musashi story too, where people leave the security of their school and family in order to pressure test their skills in a no holds barred environment. This way a lot of japanese were wandering around in china, korea and other countries. I think in kung fu i only know of the story of Liu Yunqiao wandering with Li Shu Wen and Ip Man sending his closest disciples after teaching to the mainland to his kung fu brothers for giving them the last touch
Digging the bgm.
Training Japanese Jujutsu and Gongfu. My primary art I'm training is Takagi Yoshin Ryu, also working to get back into regular BJJ training. As for Kung Fu, I kept my White Crane form that I learned through Karate, but let the rest of the Karate forms go as I want to make my body a Gongfu body, not a ridged hard karate body. I'm on my second style of Tai chi, Chen style, which I enjoy and put into everything I do. I'm learning my second style of Bagua, and to round out the 3 I took up Xingyi which is easy to understand from my previous Karate and Gongfu background. My capstone style is Drunken Boxing as all my other training meshes very well with Drunken Boxing, though the Drunken style has it's on sloshing energy which is very fun to work with, the Chin style Fajin can be used at anytime during drunken movement. I've found that it helps me to recognize similar movements and techniques using similar energies, but not to interfere with learning as a full cup spills over.
Anyone starting out fresh I think it's best to focus on one style for at least three or so years, somewhere near black belt level, after you understand your system and can use it effectively. Though I would recommend that every does at least some BJJ/ground fighting which includes live rolling/randori, and I think BJJ can be learned at the same time as standup arts, though this depends on the person. Ground fighting especially in the US has become so popular now that I think it's a most know at least in terms of defense and standing back up to fight or move, technical standup being one of the best techniques to stand up from ground grappling.
my wing chun sifu was pretty old school, from HK, but he always encouraged his students to go out and learn other styles. Only thing is he did not want students to do other styles during the classes or inside the school. But that school had people from all kinds of background, boxing, xing yi, bagua, hung gar kuen, clf, etc. Maybe WC is different when it comes to that. Maybe because of bruce's influence, a lot of the people teaching it have a modern approach.
I Agree 💯 ✊🏽
As a polyglot who learns multiple languages simultaneously, as well as a martial artist who learns and practises multiple styles, I agree that you should leave your other concepts at the proverbial door. However, learning multiple languages allows you to develop the skill to switch languages fluidly. Much in the same way, I have found that if you DO have the time to dedicate to a few hours a week of multiple styles, you can learn to switch and integrate them fluidly.
I understand what you are saying and I think there are two approaches to this; one is to embrace that it is a specific style being taught, technically unique to a particular master and time, and an other is to embrace that no student will ever express the exact same style.
Imo I like to understand why I do things, say I learned one mabu and then getting exposed to another I would naturally dig into the differences and try to understand the nuances. I would question why they are different and I would compare them just like a compare the nature of a teep and a front kick. If I was your student I would hope you do not take my inquiries personal and if I was told to not compare different techniques you would kill my joy to learn from your art. My inquiries are not to be seen as your challenges - they are mine. It is my path and I respect yours and thank you for sharing it.
I don't know if this is relevant, and your opinions might differ on this topic, but most people struggle with egoes and they do so because they do not understand what we are; the ego is a manifestation of a case of mistaken identity, say feelings, thoughts, opinions.. and this 'persona' has a sense of self-perservation such that we can feel threatened when it is actually the ego that is threatened, we can defend it because we think we are it. We can "lose face" and struggle with our egoes for as long as we have them. It would be more correct, imo, to say that we are the experiencers, the observers, the consciousness, and if we want to remain who we are we have to avoid grabbing, holding on to, and investing ourselves into feelings and thoughts and opinions..
tldr. I studied five languages simultaneously while I grew up abroad and I became fluent in three of them, others did significantly better. The best way to really learn a language (and its culture) is to attend a school that teaches all the other subjects in that language. /end rant
For sure, I agree with you completely on that. Of course we should ask questions and try to understand the reason why something is done the way it is. But that’s different from learning x style and constantly interrupting your teacher to talk about y style.
Regarding your language study, that is indeed very impressive!
Yeah, it would have been easier for me if they had skipped at least one. Five at a time was confusing for my brain. It is also remarkable how much my local language improved by attending a local school when I was already fluent. Oh well, :)
The other thing is, you do not know if the master knows. So he can basically bullshido you and take your money without you knowing if you ever gonna learn to fight which is only taught if you are taken indoors after showing moral value and loyalty in many kung fu and karate styles for many years. Thats the reasons you have another concept in china some people call seed fist, you basically sow a few styles. If you are intelligent you sow seeds where the plants are supporting each other, that is called Companion planting in natural gardening (kung fu is a farmer sport after all). This way things like hung gar came to be, where you have shaolin animal styles combined with 8 daoist immortals in order for hard and soft to support each other. Thing is that the styles are not exactly unique to a particular master and time, but you have to reach certain achievements for your style or the strategy your style has. Take for example fat Tae Kwon Do practitoner, he most likely never gonna have the speed and the jumping power he needs for most kicks to be a worthy opponent. And skinny small sumo practitioner might not be suited to go full force against his bigger and heavier opponents that just need to fall on him.
Gaining the achievements a style requires usually takes years for your body to develop, a thing that you would most likely not reach if you interrupt your specific training constantly by changing or mixing. I mean try to copy the charging power of sumo wrestlers from this low stance you can watch in the japanese tournaments. Or the height of these crazy tae kwon do jumps.
Even within the "same style" you should respect the teacher's instruction during the lesson. eg, in my Judo class we have a few instructors from different generations/experience with different teaching styles and emphasis. You simply get a lot more out of it by trying what they're teaching, even if, or especially if, what they're teaching is different from what you prefer. It trains the mind to be flexible.
Some gung fu schools actually teach 2 styles.
Kongs Siu Lum Pai is a Hung Gar school, but they so teach Choy Lay Fut as well.
You shouldn't limit yourself to one style, keep an open mind.
yes, cross training can keep you out from cult mentality & martial fraudsters. sometimes it's also fun discussing & exchanging experience from another MA with your teacher, but outside of the practice hours
As everyone seems to pretty much agree, the answer is yes, you absolutely should, but you need to reach a high level in at least one of them, otherwise you are wasting your time. I have always had a bit of a gripe with the famous Bruce Lee line "Take what is useful, discard what is useless, and add what is uniquely your own" because Lee left off the important caveat that you need to know what is and isn't useful before you can start doing that, which is a process that can easily take a decade. As an internal artist, if I had a dollar for every time I have seen someone online write a comment along the lines of "That's bull****!" about the technique of someone I respected, I would be able to quit my job and train full time. You need a high level of skill to be able judge what is and is not useful, and even then you might not be able to if it is radically different from what you know.
P.S. As a polyglot who has studied multiple languages at the same time before, it's possible but I wouldn't recommend it to a new language learner. If you want to pick a fourth and fifth language at the same time, go knock yourself out, but be warned that you will be more likely to confuse those two, I am still trying to get the Norwegian out of my German....
Thank you!
Here's something that I've struggled with -
From the beginning of my training, wanted to become a teacher. But, if you want to be a teacher, then you have to stick to one style for a determinate number of years to reach a point of mastery that warrants being able to take on students. However, sticking to learning only one system seems a little difficult these days because people move around so much. Teachers move away, students have to take jobs far away, etc.
If I could have chained my first Sifu to a wall, I would have had him long enough to master the first system I started with, rather than go into other arts in order to find really good teachers.
Can you become a legit Sifu with different arts in your background rather than a vast experience in one art?
What's the impact of any particular style on your body and mind as your situation changes? Your age, health, and environment are factors in what you practice or what you're drawn to try.
Great video.
It's my understanding that quite a few Chinese styles have Tan Tui as a common base. Maybe even that students are expected to have learnt Tan Tui as a general thing before being taken on by a master of a specific style. Not too sure on this though.
Basically every kung fu style has some form of explosive legs forms. Tan Tui was popularized by the chin woo athletic association. To be a serious fighter you need some stamina, strength and explosiveness. Tan Tui is a northern thing, developed by a muslim soldier to strengthen the legs. The southern styles usually use some kind of dance like unicorn or lion dance for this purpose. Actually the northern styles tend to teach Tan Tui as fundamental conditioning before actually style teaching, while the southern styles tend to teach it afterwards.
Short answer: yes. Long answer: Hell yes.
show me the ying zhao fansi moon in china
What is Tai Chi Mantis?
It’s the style I practice. There is a series of videos I have done introducing it if you search through my channel 😀
You have in china a number of fighting theories that are expressed by different terms and the related actions that are connected to the theories of the term like Liu He, Qi Xin, Mei Hua, Taiji etc. Basically Taiji Mantis is such a hybrid of Mantis boxing combined with the theory of ying and yang. So they compress and expand a lot which they express in coiling or rolling movements additional to the mantis techniques. Some say it is not really comparable to Taiji (Tai Chi) Chuan, but they are featuring some techniques like the folding of daoist boxing styles. And rather try do to soft things like parry instead of hard blocks and forcing.
It is easy to mistake the style cause a lot of old people add to Tai Chi Chuan the Mantis Style cause most techniques are grounded and suited for old folks.
Its better to train a Hybrid Martial Art. For example Jeet Kune Do which consists of Punching, Kicking, Trapping and Grappling and its a complete fighting system.
Training in martial arts like Taekwondo, Karate might waste time. A lot of traditional martial arts have lose effectiveness.
How about Bruce Lee he
took a lot of styles, too
c.w. nicol.. chase two rabbits & you will never catch both
this tea company is so annoying. never buy their tea
If you have had an issue with an order, please reach out via the contact form on the store site and we will look into it.
Childish troll.