Why Nobody Likes Woke Characters
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 มิ.ย. 2024
- What makes modern characters so unlikable? Let's talk.
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Congratulations to Jar Jar Binks for no longer being the most hated character in the Star Wars universe.
Oh God, I hadn't realised that. I'm... not sure how I feel about that.
@@alexross911 meesa just fine with that
@Kristopher Prime I think he dialed up his performance too high. Toning it down by a few degrees and I bet he would have been very well liked
Hes such wasted potential, Darth Jar Jar would have been epic.
I miss those days 😢
...Perfectly said.
"The reason why nobody likes Woke Characters is because they're not written as people first, but as a checklist for idiots who only see people for their skin color or sexual identity."
Perfectly said.
Ohh Is that what Woke means? And Yes Perfectly Said
This is true.
And I'm not going against anyone of their race or gender.
A good story needs good writing, characters, and the layout of the world.
Not just some marry-sue who think they are hotshit and powerful.
That would be in Anime.
Ironic how those who seem to fight for equality and hence who a person is not what they are, are the most superficial of all
The majority of people, mostly straight people with white skin want to see more people of different skin colors and sexual orientations in their media. This is because they listen to minority groups who tell them they want to be represented more in the media, usually because their friends are in those groups. Media corporations then incorporate this into their media to comply with consumer demand.
I can tell this is a right-winger channel but us leftists also think that corporate pandering is cringe - however it’s the only way under this capitalist system that politically powerless minorities can receive the representation straight white people have had for generations. Corporations have control over whether or not they do it *right* I.e not resorting to stereotypes in order to push the idea that you are “super inclusive!” But doing it in itself is not bad and essentially complaining about having people who look different from yourself in the media is not a good look unless all your friends and colleagues look like you too.
Having progressive politics in corporate media? Cringe asf. Always doing it wrong. Always surface level BS to appease socially progressive libs to make them feel better about themselves. They always talk about how bad capitalism is, and how bad racism is, but don’t do anything to actually fight it - because it’s not in their best interest to do so, they only have to sell you that they are.
@@JerichoYeet yeah anime has become a lot more mainstream, our writers are starting to become like them which is kinda sad to see since they can’t match the animation so we are stuck with mid stories and mid art to go along with it.
I love woke characters. I haven’t seen one character asleep that’s done anything.
Bro's speaking facts so true us humans can't even perceive them
Unless if you’re zenitsu. 🤣
@@donalddeluxe6407he's a terrible character
@@ucantknowwhoiamformyownsaftey that’s fine if you don’t like him.
Bro you had me in the first half 💀
Wanna hear something horrible!
So you know the whole “star fire child” thing was originally a fan fiction. It was supported by the fans and had small little comic strips that everyone loved.
Then the creator of the “I am not star fire” (forgot the name of the author), threatened to sue the fan fiction artist and had almost every fan fiction depicting the child of star fire copy right striked and taken down. She literally for several months went on a campaign of trying to remove all fan fiction so no one could talk bad about her comic even though it sucked
Is the fanfiction still online somewhere?
@@chee.rah.monurB probably in pieces somewhere. It’s the Internet. Nothing’s never really gone from the Internet
@@chee.rah.monurBif not easily found on the internet then maybe the way back machine could find it
is that even legal becouse it seems like it came before the comic
That just sounds like such an asshole move 💀
I find it so frustrating that nerds grew up being bullied and shunned for liking this stuff, then the normies got into it, changed everything, then bullied the nerds again for not liking what they did to the stuff we loved way before them
My experiences with bullying were quite different from what you described.
For most of my life my motto has been enjoy it while it's good then nope out when things get controversial.
PS: this only applies to entertainment not real life situations.
I was a normie, but I became a nerd over time and stayed like that and enjoyed being a nerd. But the smart thing to do was to stay under the radar of other normies.
I refer to it as the gentrification of geek/nerd culture. We usually gravitate toward these things because we were shunned and pushed out of the mainstream. Now that we've made these things popular they want to push us out and take it for themselves. And get mad at us because we don't like it
"I find it so frustrating that nerds grew up being bullied and shunned for liking this stuff, then the normies got into it, changed everything, then bullied the nerds again for not liking what they did to the stuff we loved way before them"
Agreed, except that it isn't the normies who are doing that shit, but a bunch of mentally ill narcissists who think that nothing that doesn't pander to their ideology should have the right to exist.
@@SergioBocanegra I was looked down on and mocked growing up liking nerdy things. Then being older seeing those same people wearing the shirts, watching the same stuff, etc that they mocked me for makes it that much worse
"Let's fight racism by creating characters that we reduce to their sex and skin-color."
It's crazy, really.
I think sexual orientation is more of a focus than skin collar. If a character is black and nonbinary. It's the nonbinary part that's supposed to wow you. Atleast that's how i see it. I could be wrong about the skin color thing.
I wouldn't mind if it was across the board. But imagine the carnage if black panther was anything but *really* black no mixed fake nonsense. Or they made storm white 😂
@@kalen2465 imagine the new black panther would be white xD
Can I point out how back when the Kenobi show was released. Disney made a post saying don’t be racist.
But where have all the alien creatures gone in Star Wars? Why only human characters?
Am i the only one who truly doesnt think color is that special? I honestly dont care about the romanticism and glamorization of race...i am interested in ideas, thoughts, integrity and philosophy...skin color seems so shallow and vain. When a whole characters only special card is their race it is so boring and it feels that it exists only to make you feel inferior ...its really weird.
A really good example of a powerful female character is Ripley from Alien; she was both strong, independent, a leader; she was capable of being a powerful individual without giving a girl empowerment speech for 10 minutes of the film. She outlasted everyone because of her actual strength and tenacity that played out on screen, all in believable scenarios (for a sci-fi) that didn't rely on exaggerating her strengths or in weakening her foe to emphasize her being a girl-boss.
Imo, Ripley is one of the best representations of actual female empowerment because it doesn't insinuate for one moment, that Ripley is weaker or stronger than the men. On screen, she's a member of the crew that happens to defeat the enemy out of perseverance, wit and pure determination. Showing women struggling in the beginning of a film is the best way to express their strength by also watching them overcome later in the film, this emphasizes that women are just as capable as men and are human; the message sent and received without being forced.
Rey on the other hand, her character was rushed into girl-boss status without any of the same struggles endured by former characters of the genre. Her rushed stardom nullifies the hardships of people like Luke, Anakin or any of the Jedi who required training by a master and endured hardships through the process of learning (Anakin had to learn why its best to have the high ground for example). If they just spent at least one movie focusing on Rey being a novice, who finds Luke and learns to become a real Jedi by undergoing some training, and Luke actually cared about getting his saber back and wanted to train Rey, I truly believe most fans would have embraced the Disney remakes and Rey as a character. Luke should have been a powerful mentor who imparts his wisdom; instead, he was made out to be a joke in favor of strengthening Rey's perceived girl-boss power on screen.
She does use one of those exo suits in one of the movies, maybe the first one, but I think that just adds more to it. She doesn't get some magical way of killing the queen without the necessary weapons. Like any other man or woman she needed her strength augmented with an exo suit to go 1 on 1 with something as large as a queen, or even any of the normal xenos
@@ghoulishgoober3122basically logical sense
Laura croft another great female hero
The story of Gina Carano, Cara Dune pisses me off so much. They had a successful diverse female in their space show, fans could see her carrying her own show, yet she deviated from "the message" by one sentence, and now she is banished to the void.
what did she say? something about covid?
@@Paronak something about Trump.
I don’t remember the exact words, I’m paraphrasing here, but it was along the lines of : being politically right leaning feels like being a Jew during the Holocaust.
I remember reading a Spider-Man comic from the 1970s. In that comic a black man waves Spider-Man down as he's swinging around just to thank Spidey for being such a good role model to the kids in the "hood". Spider-Man told him he wasn't black, but the man said it didn't matter. Since Spider-Man's costume covered his entire body, every kid, no matter their color, could see themselves as Spider-Man. Black, Latino, Asian, white, it didn't matter. It was Spider-Man's actions, deeds, and heroism that inspired them all.
How far we've fallen.
Lol if that exact same story was written today white people would call it "woke"🙄
I hadn't really thought of that. But it's true, as long as the secret identity is secret, it could be anyone under that mask. What a lovely, wonderful way of recognizing that.
If I'm correct, stan Lee himself said that that was an unintentional but wonderful aspect of Spiderman. Sadly it doesn't work as much anymore because now we apparently need more drama instead of villain VS hero. How far we've fallen indeed.
Miles morales aka Peter darker is the most racist stereotype ever.
Oh we have dark skin...
Must have ties to crime or delinquency backstory.
@@SpectatingBystander what? Are you talking about he’s uncle.
we've descended to a point where fanfiction writers are creating better characters than the people who create the source material.
Yeah fnafic writers gained experienced and by the power of being a fanfic so they don't have to follow the orders and line of thought of thw corporations + being able to skirt around canon, they startwd making better shit than the actual writers.
Honestly sometimes I think that fanfic writers should be hired to make content of the media they love so much
Agreed
Then again.....the source material is also being written by fan fiction writers.....
Because todays writers were yesterdays fanfiction writers. Thats what a lot of these modern characters feel like, fanfiction characters created so the writer can interact directly with their favorite franchises.
I originally got into fanfiction to improve my writing skills, read some fun What If... scenarios and escape some bad mainstream media. But now, it's mostly to get from mainstream media!
Bad example of diversity: Rey, who's just a Mary Sue
Good example of diversity: Luz Noceda, who isn't defined by the fact she's a bi Latino girl, but rather that she's a big nerd with an even bigger heart.
For real!!!
Sad Disney canceled the owl house
EXACTLY.
fo shizzle
YES!
Man, I loved the drama of Deadpool and Death love.That they love each other, but can never truly be together, because Pool cannot die for good, and only visits her, when he is critically injured. It was special
Deadpool canonically is Pansexual, he always had a thing for Colossus and Cable, the argument in this video is laking in that point at least.
The Silver Surfer and Dawn.
@@elpedromoin I'm Handsexual.
I'm sure an AI can write a more compelling character than any of these soulless corporations.
Maybe you're an AI?
Okay, künstliche Intelligenz, was sind Ihre Vorschläge, um die Star Wars-Überlieferungen neu zu schreiben?
A TH-camr has proven that this is true altori has shown this in one of her videos.
soulless vs soulless
The soulless corporations are the ones who want the AI. Are you actually stupid?
I still remember when the new trilogy of Star Wars showed Finn handling a Lightsaber and people were pretty in for that idea.
Then they said that Finn was gonna be a Stormtrooper and people went absolutely nuts because we all thought that we are gonna get an incredible story of a Stormtrooper building his path into the Jedi warrior way.
But then they throw us Rey. which ended up being really disappointing for all of us.
Exactly. There was a good story there with an original story line. But nope. Disney has to promote ALL Female characters to the top. It's still happening even today.
@@richmbailey It probably wouldn't even have been so bad if Rey were a better character.
Yeah, I was so damn disappointed. A friend of mine happens to be black and me and him quit a rather controversial group that preached of equality, justice for colored people, justice for women, and we were essentially stormtroopers then. Brainwashed and believed in a cause we didn't understand but it must have been right. Then we realized the wrong we were doing and left.
Then again, that happened way after in like the 2020. But that would have been so amazing and hit close to home for me even back in the day where I was all confused in my life. Biggest disappointment ever. But it had potential but, a stormtrooper to Jedi would have been awesome.
@@kellmedd4925 Gonna be real with ya. No modern actor will live up to Samuel L Jackson as a Jedi.
@@Dakota_B_ Gonna be real with ya, you spittin too many facts.
This is precisely what they did to Wheel of Time.
The women in the books were absolutely badass, but when these people say "strong women characters" they don't actually mean strong women. They mean a sort of childish, uncreative "girlz rule, boys drool" brand of feminism that appeals to absolutely nobody but a few haters.
One of my biggest gripes with Rey being written as such a Mary Sue is in the first movie when she just knows how to fly the Falcon. Got into an argument with someone with them saying that she knows how to pilot the hover crafts on Jaku so it's not impossible for her to know how to fly a space craft. Told them well I know how to drive my car. Doesn't mean I know how to fly a freakin airplane
The very worst thing about Luke trying to kill his nephew is that he failed.
The strongest jedi in the history of ever failed to kill a sleeping child.
Okay sure, Disney.
I’d be willing to accept it if there was,say,a moment of hesitation or something
Nah dude that's definitely not it, it's the fact that he would have even considered doing that in the 1st place because he thought there was a *chance* that his nephew would turn to the dark side. That completely goes against the type of character that we know Luke to be.
@@jordanfelt5978 They could have easily put in some reasoning that he was being subtly manipulated for years, and all it led to was a literal singular moment of weakness.
Luke isn't even immune to the Dark Side in the comics - post Episode 6, mind you - and it HAS screwed with him.
People keep saying that he's incorruptibly pure, when the comics show that - while he IS largely, overwhelmingly pure - he is NOT immune to darker emotions. He's not perfect, he's human.
idk is Luke really that strong? They say "the force is strong" or something, but not to the point where he's the strongest ever, right?
@@Kashlikaro ooookay...? I didn't say and was not implying that I thought he was perfect or something like that. I was just pointing out the obvious.....that Luke clearly shows true wisdom in the original trilogy where he's the kind of person who would clearly think through a situation before just assassinating his nephew because he had one bad dream. Like, I don't know if you're trying to defend the sequel trilogy or something? But simply based on your response it seems like you somehow completely misinterpreted what I was saying, my dude.
Remember when we used to mock Tumblr and Fanfiction that made superficial/self insert characters the whole focus? Now we're expected to love them because it would be the polite thing to do.
Teeny-bopper tumblr fanfic writers growing up and getting careers in media is EXACTLY how we got to where we are now.
@@synchacker25 Feels more like those fanfic writers are writing better quality characters and stories than the multi-billion companies.
For me, I had almost no expectations for The Last Jedi, and Disney had, in my own opinion, still failed to reach them.
'My Immortal' Hermione reboot when?
@Donder172 id have to disagree about those fanfic characters. You have a point about corpo characters. Cant create anything interesting
@@synchacker25shit, when i was little i thought - "its need to be extremely smart to work there so i cant..." and i just see now all this dumbass shitheads shitting all over i loved fuck it
I remember working on my original character since childhood and how he started off as an overpowered warrior, but now became a much more grounded character who is in over his head against the threats he faces. You could say that he grew up along side me as I kept changing him to fit how I wanted him at the same. From a time traveling warrior to a angry teenager who wanted recolection. Till finally becoming the version I mentioned 2 sentences ago. Looking back I now prefer the version I have now in my adulthood as he is the best version so far. Whenever I pitch or explain my character to other people I get 2 different reactions. Those reactions being:
1. That's like insert character's name from insert media's name here.
2. Why he isn't he insert whatever character trait?
To those questions I simply reply that I am influenced by so and so; I am still working on him or I intend for him to go on a journey. I.e. I haven't published my stories yet, so give me some time*.
* Though honestly I don't think most people would remember or care.
Another character I have slowly published online is a murder victim who tries to solve his own murder. Which is how I always explain this character. Not once do I ever mention his ethnic background (which is of Korean descent.) I only bring that up when I show his design on my Instagram who is often completely covered up in robes and wraps so that the characters in the story don't figure out who he is. Especially the murderer.
I haven't been ableto go much further in either story due to financial troubles, but I don't intend to give up on my characters and their stories. As I truly believe I can make something great or at the very least decent. Even if I fail to do so. If I can help add fuel to the fire that is human creativity to someone else than I will be happy. Though having a dedicated and stable fanbase to my work wouldn't hurt. Not to mention the parodies I would like to see.
The simple answer is that people just want superheroes and secondarily relatable ones. We don’t care if it’s a guy, a girl, a black person, or a gay person, we just want interesting characters. The issue with these characters is that their entire character is hyper fixated upon their sexuality or race. Again, we do not care for that and we just want relatable characters. Hopefully these big corporations actually listen to their fanbase though, sorry for the rant
My problem with woke characters is as follows:
1. The focus on their identity is not a replacement for a personality. A person's sexual preference or skin color is not and should not be a huge part of their personality. It is also naturally divisive as obsession over identity has been a huge problem for this species to overcome, especially in recent years.
2. They are often self inserts set to replace established characters. Self inserts, like you showed, can be good characters, but bringing one into an established franchise usually means that they attempt to steal the reigns and attention of that franchise.
The first point is also why people who make being gay their personality are so hated. Like please be more than the pride flag hung on your wall and get a hobby
@@monstertmg7004 yeah we should watch stupid takes, make video games a personality and use anime avatars. How in self aware can a person be.
@@RobynMarshall-wr7zr Congratulations! You just assumed multiple things about me based on a TH-cam pfp I haven’t changed in 8 years. Here’s a medal 🏅
Also to note on your other comment on this video about Wolverine and Xmen: The entire point of the video is that a character’s sexuality or skin color should only be a side detail and not their personality. Wolverine is a character with lots of trauma, flaws, character development, struggles and more. Look at the Logan movie for instance. This goes for other xmen as well, if you take out their sexuality or skin color there’s still a character there unlike the examples in the video. The entire point of the video is that there should be more characters that represent minorities but they should be actually good characters, and new characters instead of just retconing past characters half hazzardly.
@@monstertmg7004 Yep!
To come so close to realizing the multic*lturalism and multir*cialism have done nothing but destroy society and then just default right back to "but muh escapism!", how sad.
No mention of Ashoka?
She was a character people didn't like when she was introduced as Anakim's Padawan... But she is now a fan favorite for many, because her story is good, she evolved... She actually became her own character and not just the slap on.
She has a fantastic tragedy that is fascinating to explore. In a way, her relationship to darth vader is more interesting even than Obi Wans'
She was introduced as annoying and whiney. And they IMMEDIATELY changed that idea and had her mature in like 2 episodes.
I still don’t like her character.
@@Dimimash why?
@@1hpredkingtower432 Well, my reasons will probably be disagreed with heavily; since you ask I just find her to be very underwhelming to the SW universe- sure, she’s got a huge pivotal role concerning Anakin and his change overtime, but to me I always felt that was really her only role in the universe was to serve as a catalyst for Anakin’s change into Darth Vader. I don’t BELIEVE she’s the prime reason he changed but she had some hand in it.
With that said, I always felt that there were much better and more important characters that could carry the legacy of what she was given during Clone Wars and so on. I just think she’s been so popularized because of the cartoon show that it made no room for the creators to expand on the roster of Jedi’s and Padiwans. I don’t have anything against her character itself, but more of her significance to the universe; she technically has been around since the rise of the empire back then, but she’s not the only one, and she’s most definitely not one of the strongest characters to endure it.
It’s more of a dichotomy issue I have with her than it is her character itself. She’s definitely super cool, has really unique traits in combat and is quite an awesome Jedi all-around but she gets all of this praise and gloat that it’s as if no one wants to give another character some time to shine in the universe. Her obtaining her own show as well as appearing in other shows and film, just reeks of forced fan-fiction than what more there could be added to the universe.
I mean think about heroes that are in novels and comics, but never get a chance to appear in media because they just were never popular or characterized enough? She shows up in Clone Wars and all of the sudden, she’s cannon and now has a huge following.
They’re condescending.
That and their message only has half truths, and it’s infuriating how ignorant, willfully or not, they are about it.
Yoooooo thank you for Punk Rock Jesus……bro the name alone has me dumb excited 😄!
A few years ago bad fanfic writers were called out because of "poor rainbow colored self insert OCs" - today those bad fanfic writers somehow sit in the studios...
And praised as empowering and brave for "breaking normalcy".
Those writers half the time ended up being better writers than some of the people in the studios.
Failing upwards
@@PancakeTheKat I doubt both of us mean the SAME fanfic writers... I really talk about those insecure, confused, whiney teenagers who have no clue of design and don't care about the source material, just want to have a self-insert character in a franchise they like to feel better.
I am not talking about the good fanfic writers. Yes, they are out there and they can be really good. But they don't use self-inserts like this...
@@saenekokun2723 Yes... Even when there is nothing to "empower". But when everybody is crazy, normal becomes the new crazy. Maybe we can witness this someday...
Not gonna lie, I wanted Fin to be the main character. He just felt more believable. Even in the original trailers for the new set. It felt like he was supposed to be the one to become a jedi. Maybe I'm just remembering the commercials incorrectly.
Yeah. He even held a lightsaber
Bro there is no way the star wars fandom would be okay with a black protagonist 🙄
@@underrated7312 Bro, Finn would be far better than Rey Sue
@I quote movie lines I don't know; people were a pretty big fan of Samuel L. Jackson. I think the character just has to have a good story.
@@joel2749 he certainly would have but unfortunately white people hate seeing minorities especially black people in prominent roles and the majority of the star wars fandom is white so Disney knew that making finn the protagonist would be a bad idea doesn't matter how well a black character is written white people will still hate him anyway unless he is written to be some idiotic comedic relief
This is gold...this chef's kiss.... I love you.
The horrible sad truth is that these characters didn’t have to be this way. Women, POC and 🏳️🌈 have been in media and mainstream media for years. The problem is that these “writers” don’t know how to write a human experience. Let’s look at the comedians of the 60’s to the mid 2000’s. They could relate to many people (regardless if you found them funny or not is irrelevant) because they presented themselves as human first. They joke about their hardships and find the humor in their struggles, that’s what makes them great. However “comedians” like Amy Schumer, Hannah Gasby and many current “comedians” who either let their trauma take them to a dark place and become bitter (Gasby) or someone like Schumer and Katherine Ryan who never actually had any human experiences and choose to regurgitate the same third wave feminist narrative of “It’s All Men’s Fault” or like many current “comics” of color “Blame White People”. By doing that, they fail to connect to the mainstream audience and grow a Fanbase that exceeds their ILK. It’s a sad state of affairs when Americans are relying on foreign entertainment, rather than what we make here.
I just want people to stop assuming that those of us who don’t like these woke characters are racist or misogynistic. I dont hate anyone, I just don’t like bad characters. I seriously want awesome storytelling back. Plain old cool characters; no politics. I don’t care if you’re black, white, Asian, Hispanic; male or female. I grew up in the 2000s and 2010s and I miss those days when Star Wars, DC and Marvel were just really cool and everyone agreed
It's the only defense they've got, they're too delusional and narcissistic to admit the characters they've created or bastardized are poorly written, so calling people istaphobes is the only thing they can use to defend their trash fires
Honestly just embrace the name calling and say "yes I am" it passes them off even more
They know that. They are completely dumb. It’s just the only thing that discredits you
We just do not like Mary Sues and Gary Sues because thats what these woke characters are. No one likes them!
Check out the fan works. I just watched Star Wars Heir of the Empire a couple days ago. Not the best in VAs or animation that screams PS2 but gods it’s better than everything Disney did with SW.
The basic difference between Luke and Rey is that Luke was a nobody, he didn't have any special abilities and didn't even know about the force. He had to learn, he had to train to become a Jedi. On the other hand, Rey was already kind of like this person who was able to do everything out of intuition, able to keep up with Ben Solo in a sword fight with no training. She intuitively learned how to heal and revive people using the force - a power that not even Yoda ever used. She became a superpowered character just because. Like Disney believes that a compelling character is someone who already has all these powers and is so perfect. No, compelling charachters really go through a growth process. They are people you can identify with, because they are a nobody like you and they become that special someone. That is why Luke is way better than Rey
To be fair, Luke trained for, what, a month? But on the other hand, a significant chunk of the film was designated to him training.
@@carlosdanger5466 he also wasn’t “a nobody” he was the son of one of the main antagonists.
luke was a grandchild to the frce, would not call that a nobody.
@@carlosdanger5466 Sure, he didn't traun for very long, but he made up for lack of training with in-field experience. Hell, the entire second movie was about him rushing to fight and save everyone even though he wasn't ready because he wanted to save his friends, and wound up losing his hand and almost dying. He had to try and fail, Rey literally beat kylo the first time she picked up a freaking lightsaber. She is the epitiome of a mary sue
@@danielniemeyer1987 Sure, but untrained talent will be beaten by skill and experince. That's exactly what happened to anakin. He was born to the force and yet he lost to obi wan because he got cocky. Anakin wasn't a mary sue because, even though he had termendous power, he was FAR from perfect and lost fights due to his impulsiveness. But rey, on the other hand, picks up a lightsaber for the first time and beats a highly trained and skilled fighter easily. She is the ultimate Mary Sue
you nailed it mate! i heard some good explanations about this character but your is by far the best and the point you made is perfect. Love your content, and your narration is stellar!
The only time I think self-inserts are ok is if it means to be a base that is to be built up from their through growth. Like with the original Peter Parker design. As opposed to self-inserts that display no growth or some sort of character build and improv, "This is me, this is how i am, but I can still be special without ever working for it or improving to get it." Even self-insert characteristics and flaws, if for story reasons and inspirational reasons to demonstrate the character overcoming those flaws and/or not letting them dictate them, that I can find ok. But keeping the flaws in a character, or saying they are not flaws (even though they are clearly flaw) and just making them as what the character is and improving is not an option, you're fine flawed, (even though there is no real benefit), "And I should be loved regardless." My belief is that self-inserts as a base but demonstrating improvement and good storytelling is a fine option. While self-inserts as a means of drawing (no pun intended) attention on the actual person and there is no growth and improvement of character, they are just "fine" as they are, is just plain bad.
One of my biggest issues with the disney trilogy of star wars films was how they hyped the ex stormtrooper dude up as an equal protagonist if not more so to rey with her being a side kick or coprotagoinist just to shove him to the side lines for most of the next 2 films
Finn was awesome in Force awakens, then they just put him through some lame subplots in the following movies. Last jedi even blue balled everyone with the absolute nothing that was the Captain Phasma showdown, that should have been Finn shedding off the last remnants of trauma and loss of identity being conscripted as a Storm Trooper would do and besting the the penultimate Stormtrooper proving that by becoming more than just a number he has become not only stronger but a better person, that could have been such a strong scene.
A 1 minute fight scene some explosions and phasma looking a little worried and just dies then onto Hoth... I mean red salt planet.
I don’t mean to an ass but the reason is pretty blatant,China is a very racist country so most of Finn’s scenes were set up in a way that they could be very easily edited out without much effort so the film could be aired there luckily this has seeming bit Disney in the ass because most of disneys films are banned in China
I blame what happened to Finn on Disney trying to appeal to China just because they HATE black people.
not to mention that in China the character was made smaller on posters and generally given less attention which basically goes against what they were preaching in the first place because 'chinese-money go cha-ching'
That's you biggest issue with them? No you're a lucky mofo, dude.
Driver's Kylo Ren actually had the same situation of being a weaker replacement of an original character. The difference is that Kylo owns that conflict and uses it; it's why his character alone shines put through the rest of the trilogy. Kylo is crushed by the need to live up to an impossible standard of his predecessor and swings from trying desperately to copy Vader to blazing his own path.
just thinking about how much potential kylo had makes me sad that he was so boring in the movies
then they completely sold out on his redemption and made it cheesy af
Furthermore, Drivers Kylo seems to be closer to the legend interpretation of Sith, giving in to emotion and acting out.
Kylo had potential for being an interesting villain, and Finn has potential for being an interesting hero.
@@ShadeSlayer1911 and Rey had potential to never exist in the first place.
If I go into a steakhouse, and there's no steak, and I get called out for being a hater of non - steak foods, when I wanted my damn steak - well - let's just say, there's always plenty of steakhouses in the turf
Arcane: League of Legends is another good example of having a diverse cast while not making their progressive features their focal points. You had masculine women, gay men the whole nine yards and yet almost every character was well thought out and personable. Their individual strengths and hardships and general character development made the show one of my favorite animated shows ever.
Pretty much what western geek culture has become.
Agreed
i never got into DnD but man i can tell its not the same
But Eastern Geek Culture is 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
I blame Big Bang Theory
Now i understand why people prefer the japanese comics.
Disney: We want strong woman characters.
Also Disney: But they also must obey and bend a knee to us.
I like how you guys called Gina Carano 'woke' and a terrible actress until she turned out to be a MAGA weirdo lmao.
@@hihihi1q23 Got any receipts to back that up or are you just pulling that out of thin air?
@@hihihi1q23 "I'm inclusive and tolerant you bigot" "yeah that chicks a MAGA weirdo lmao"
@@hihihi1q23 she was probably the most beloved mando character on screen before her politics even came out. Tf are you smoking?
@@ectsy he not smoking anything he is just too busy drinking the woke kool-aid he might actually say something cool if he was smoking some of that good shit
9:05 We would never have known he looks (kinda) like the creator until someone came along and told us. I didn't know that before this video, and I've been a Spider-Man fan for 25 years. 🤷🏿♂️
Most of Rey's relevance comes from animated pornography. The only reason I was able to spell her name correctly was because I forgot to delete my browsing history
i miss the times where superhero shows where good guy defeating the bad guy, and the main characters were inspiring and motivational
Superhero stories ruined society. They created generations of lazy sheep who expect someone else to embody those traits and babysit them rather than learning to be self-sufficient. I've yet to see anyone who cries about superhero stories no longer teaching good morals actually live up to the morals the love to crow on about.
I was thinking about buying the full dvd box set for Batman the animated series and rewatching all of it
That's literally 99% of superhero movies, dude, you guys just get triggered.
@@hihihi1q23 that’s 99% of all the “old” super hero movies. The new ones don’t even seem concerned with saving anyone, only one recently that I can think of that felt like a proper hero was Ant Man. They kind of Neutered him as well tho by surrounding him with women who are more capable than him
In the new ones, the hero punches someone who doesnt seem to matter and then go home to their 2-spirit trsuma-ridden mate who actually doesnt matter because the readers want more theatric heroics, and less "oh look at this colorful not entirely masculine or feminine person making out with our hero! Don't 99% of you love THIS as a distraction? And not a lengthy twisty battle where hero pulls out all the stops and learns something?" New heroes kinda just succeed immediately when they want to, which means you're to be invested in the color-sex experience of their lives for the rest of the issue. Which is.... Ehh..
The first time Rey used the force in FW, that would not have been a bad scene had she wondered what the hell she just did or questioned how that even happened. Right there you have her exploring her potential and asking questions. That could have been a great way to develop her character as she worked her way out of the First Order prison. But no, she is just "force aware" and automatically knows how to use it.
I'd say it would still be bad just because of what power she used. The mind trick is, from what I've heard and read, a master level force ability that takes ages of training to learn how to use. It would have worked better if she just used the force to pull the lever that released her restraints, have it so an alarm went off or otherwise something loud happened to distract the guard so he didn't hear the restraints unlocking, then Rey could have snuck up on him and taken him out.
After already stating she'd never even heard of it before
Hell could have made it so her force abilities failed at a critical moment due to her inexperience and lack of understanding against a trained force warrior
It’s because Disney treats the force like it’s a marvel superpower.
It’s similar to the she-hulk show she knows more than Bruce banner about controlling her anger because she lives in a world with men
Ngl thumbnail goes hard as hell
5:00 We don't want to be represented by heroes, we want heroes that inspire us to be like them. For F sake, it's not that complicated.
The worst part is when people call you a racist/homophobe when you point all of this out. I’m a latino who lived in 4 different countries and 2 different continents in the last 6 years. I made all kinds of friends, met dozens of people, and shared apartments with people from different ethnicities and sexual orientations. These people are now considered my friends (some are really close friends, others are people you are friends with for a while and then just sort of keep in touch).
But of dozens of friends and acquaintances I’ve made in all of these places, I met one person who is trans, two people who are gay, and one who is bisexual. It is just completely unrealistic for EVERYONE to be gay and no one to be white! And it would be a lot more tolerable if the characters where any good. Even as a latino I’m tired of all the crappy latino characters that just keep popping up to be instantly forgotten…
There isn't a single film or television show where literally every character is gay and non-white.
@@LunarOverdrive I'm exaggerating to make a point. I think in some shows/movies, the ratio is just plain unrealistic for the sake of representation.
@@federicoarmando8359 I should have been more clear. My main point is, as of right now, the vast majority of TV and Film is still dominated by a white and straight cast of characters with people of color or LGBT characters making up a much smaller fraction of that and often having less important roles in the story of the film. Black Panther is the only modern Blockbuster I can think of that was an exception. It had a predominantly black cast, and I hardly noticed or cared because I thought the plot and characters were actually well-written. That's why I don't think the problem is with the amount of representation, but the poor quality of it. Either the characters are deliberately thrown in as an act of tokenism to be taken out of international releases (i.e. Pixar's Lightyear) or the characters end up poorly written which is detrimental for everyone.
@@LunarOverdrive I agree!
Ok ignorant question here but dose latino refer to people of latin American origin (South America) and dose that include people of Mexico?
If my phrasing/question is disrespectful I’m sorry I’m simply curious
The most wild thing in my generation was going from the 90's and 2000's timeline of "everyone should be treated equally based on their individual behavior" to 2010's "everyone should be treated based on their needs like their income, background, and upbringing" to 2020's "Everyone should be treated only based on bullshit irrelevant self-identifying factors like race and gender".
Agreed, makes you wonder how far the gen z rabbit hole will fall
@carsandsports123 you guys both sound like old men waving your cane at the future. I remember the 90's and the 2000's and that was NEVER the case.
Well you should be happy about that because white people are very well versed in judging by race so I'm sure nothing much has changed for you guys lol
Nothing really changed, there has always been a treatment based on gender and race, the only thing different from these years is that those who were discriminated against in previous years now discriminate against those who did.
@@just5971 so if its vengeance then, why should anyone want to help them? seems like cutting off your nose to spite your face.
honestly I don't mind "woke" characters; I just want them to be a decent character. There's so little but great good examples of being woke and being a good character. A good example being Clementine from the telltale series, shes literally the most woke you can get and yet people don't shit on her because she's an amazingly well-built character who grows as a person as the story goes on. Shes actually likable. Gwen Stacy from the Spider Man animation is a actually likable character with small tad bit of teenage angst and a little trauma. The Spider Verse movies don't have an asshole of a mc going around putting people down, denying others of their struggles because some guy looked at them wrong (*cough cough* She Hulk) and the likable characters actually work for their strength. they don't just pull it out of their ass in the middle of a movie and they don't treat female representation like a damn prize animal by giving them a whole section like thats going to work. like bro if you want black representation or female representation or trans representation the easiest and best way is making a movie for them, make your own character if you need, and don't go "oooo ah, watch this insufferable asshole of magic girl and her squad run and fight big bad guy for 10 minutes. like bro this aint a art gallery, representation doesn't mean forcing it into your story and shoving it at the veiwer. Representation is making a good character who also has those elements. If they are a hero, have them still fight the same damn troubles as the cis white man hero, have the struggles of their minority be a issue on the side, an annoyance but something that dictates their actions and choices (while also making us care for the character: ie. Don't fucking steal some random guys bike because he was an sexist asshole, thats still a crime buddy and theres better ways to solving an issue. That just creates more issues, issues of which he benefits from since a crime is still a crime. Being a hero doesn't absolve you from crime, especially if this is in a "woke" film, all your actions define you as a hero or a villain it's not just your good acts) If you do their minority struggles as the focal point, give it the damn attention it deserves and show them struggling to accept themselves or like give them a conflict, or struggle to overcome.
I hate woke characters They always ruined everything
*AND THATS THE BOTTOM LINE*
The fact that u mention the I am not starfire book when the video before was about how much it sucked is hysterical
The silence that Kathleen Kennedy got when she went on stage was hilarious. It’s about as quiet as the packed theater was after the Last Jedi. Great job Disney for turning a billion into a million dollar franchise!
I have no idea how that woman keeps failing upwards and what blackmail she has on who. Did she stumble on a vault of Epstein Island videos or something? lol
Star Wars is massively successful. Wtf are you talking about? Right now is probably the best era since the original trilogy in terms of games, tv shows, etc.
@@hihihi1q23 lol you're either trolling or delusional.
@@hihihi1q23 hahaha, no. More like the most over saturated and over pushed, it's been a downhill cliff of diminishing returns financially since the Last Jedi turd and the subsequent poorly reviewed and performing follow ups.
It's no longer a cultural juggernaut that it once was. Nobody can quite the new movies, other than in an ironic meta way. There have been failed projects, something that Star Wars never output before.
It's a shell of it's former self, creatively and commercially, and is beyond redemption for many fans.
One day it wont make any money at all.
The silence following Kathleen Kennedy’s introduction at the celebration thing was so satisfying to see.
Is the thumbnail Edward Warren from Nailbiter? If so, I didn't pickup on the subject discussed in the video within that storyline at all.
11:52 I feel called out… I’m planning to make an animated web series were 3 or 4 of the 5 main characters are LGBTQ+
Btw, I’m not upset or anything this a great video, I just immediately thought of the fact that I’m writing a story where the 4 of the 5 main characters are diverse when you said that
Woke "characters" aren't characters, they are just convenient for immature writers.
Just compare Mulan from the 90s animated version against the Disney's live action.
The animated one recognized her flaw was not being as physically strong as the men that surrounded her, she was about to give up due to not being able to compete, but what did she do? She used her most human trait to overcome the odds: her intelligence and ability to adapt in creative ways to the problems ahead. She had to be smart and find new ways to achieve what others could through sheer force, and that allowed her to perceive things in a different manner.
Now we have the new Mulan, she has superpowers, she easily overpowers everyone else, her only struggle is that she wasn't as confident, but no one is even a challenge to her superpowers, she could easily solo the final boss, what did she learn? Not much, just that she was already capable and struggling is for those who aren't naturally gifted.
The animated one represented what it is like to be human, the second one represented what an edgy teenager thinks a good character is: non-emotional, cold, OP, and unfazed by the situation.
Hey is Rey, but chinese and in the middle ages! :D
Actually hurts how close are to eachother's personality.
@@fabiocosta3830 don't worry, there is more of Rey for the next 6 years as a new trilogy is coming with Rey as the lead character.
@@manamaster6 🤢🤢 that is true... Wish Lucas Arts would break free from Disney's grasp, somehow.
Mulan is racist shit. It’s like a love story between anne frank and an ss officer
Very well said!
PS: As a writer, I objectively try not to self insert because I don't like doing it. I like to keep my life and fantasy separate.
I am so glad that I am not the only one who does this
That's the entire point, like we don't need self inserts because the entire point of fantasy is that it isn't our lives
yup 👏👏👏
Indeed.
You can do the good way the Stephen king way, where his main characters are writers, that's a good self insert. Or junji ito who makes a lot of his mains look kinda like him but having their characteristics
Had to watch half the video twice because I got too distracted with the cool lightsaber battles in the background
The bald man sent me. Good topic, subbed.
It's funny The Boys actually has an episode where they are talking about how ridiculous it is to capitalize on the fact that Maeve is bi
The Boys have been nothing but top tier TV
The Boys isn't scared to poke fun at topics like these, they actually go ull in, and are able to make the risks they take succeed.
The boys expertly takes the piss out of big media and corporate bullshit. You see something in the boys and you go that’s ridiculous, then you remember it’s like that in the real world.
They also make fun of you people
The Boys wants to have its cake and eat it too. It's pretty woke it just hides it better. Still an alright show, though.
Disney had the potential to make Finn the best Jedi protagonist. A stormtrooper that realized what he was actually doing, starts to turn to another path when he starts to truly awaken his force powers. As his powers awaken, he feels remorse for everything he did while holding what is essentially the greatest power in the universe and that causes a storm of doubt that screws with his powers or starts to shift him to a grey Jedi. Once he meets Luke, trains in the force, and finds shit out from the Order, he slowly goes from demonizing himself and hating himself to realizing who he has to become and accepting everything that happens or something like that (I'm not a writer). Finn had so much potential to be a top-tier Star Wars protagonist. Same with Kylo Ren, but mostly because Kylo looked dope.
See, that's the thing with so many of these productions, they almost always start out with amazing concepts or starting points that could be built upon to make fantastic stories, until executives, investors, activist advisors, etc etc start changing things up to check boxes or fulfill some egomaniac's power fantasy, which inevitably screws the entire project over.
Black males aren't allowed to be strong.
bro managed to make a story that was 10x better than the sequels in a youtube comment
You're right about Kylo lookin' dope tho, I ain't never seen a lightsaber with that cross guard until he showed up
Would have been cool but he’s black and that would never have sold in the Chinese market Disney so desperately wanted to pander too. That’s why Finn is like 70% smaller on the Chinese version of the movie poster
In other words, to use Peter Parker as an example, Peter was built up over a long number of years to have deeper characterization. Either that or they started with a less divisive backstory when made in the past to not make so everyone was one type of character.
Characters only built by diversity aren't characters they are just marks on a checklist
I always find it really strange when they call everyone racist, sexist, etc. when they don't like a minority character, but from what I've seen, everyone wanted for Finn to be the main character for the sequel trilogy, and he is more liked than Rey for the most part. Really makes you think they ignore the evidence refuting their bait articals on purpose.
why did FINN get death threats when he was revealed as a storm Trooper in the Force Awakens First Trailer. Why did REVA get death threats..do white actors ever get death threats for playing a role in star wars ?
They do it to end the discussion. They don't have anything useful or intelligent to say, so they attempt to shut you up instead.
@Katie G. so there are no racists or sexists who hide behind saying " woke " anywhere on earth let you tell it. And i dont call people racists or sexists .. until they are secretly recorded and exposed like Hulk Hogan.
I wanted Finn to be the main character and was shipping him with Poe by the end of their initial scene together. They had such amazing chemistry they spent the whole next movie trying to prove they weren't gay, when it would've been more "woke" to just go with it.
@@PopePlatinumBeats You literally have an easier time naming public figures who dont get death threats than public figures who dont. George Lucas got death threats, guess people do hate white people after all. You are so lost in the sauce you're hopeless.
I do not hate characters of different skin colours, or different sexualities, or different genders, or nationalities, or any other bullshit, what I hate is when that's their entire personality! Just like the "strong independent woman" thing, I absolutely don't mind a woman that doesn't rely on men and knows she can figure out her shit herself, what I hate is when a woman is too busy screaming about how independent and strong she is to actually prove her statements.
That's why I laugh when people do pride parades and get harassed. Flaunting what you do with your genitals when nobody gives a shit.
as a woman, this speaks facts. the saying "actions speak louder than words" plays so true
yep and its not like some strong female characters arent liked. if they want a strong female character that dont need no man without having to be an obnoxious asshole about it.. why not simply make a Metroid movie? (sicne ya know the industry is averse to new unproven franchises these days and rely on nostalgia to still try and extract money from their garbage)
Thank you it's so true you should see what trans people have to deal with they portray us a trans being out only quality
Most "strong women" are terribly written. So many writers fail to write a basic women with morals, backstory and depth something so simple is so hard for them
Great video
7:50 - Oh for fuck sake 😠!
Lol, you are just disappointed as I am.
I saw this fantastic short clip where this psychologist did a study Legos and why it was that boys loved and played with Legos yet the company couldn't get girls into their Legos at all.
It apparently all came down to the difference between how boys a girls immerse themselves into their beloved characters.
For boys, when they immerse themselves into a character like Batman, they imagine themselves as Batman.
But for girls, when they immerse themselves into a character like Barbie, they imagine that Barbie is them.
I think this goes a really long way into explaining why it is that we're seeing so many self-inserts by female intersectional feminist writers.
Sounds like a young children thing, given the number of women who are amazing roleplayers.
@@zeehero7280 What, like 5?
@@zeehero7280 young children stuff is still telling of adult stuff. You don’t completely change who you are as a person just by growing up. Somebody outgoing and charismatic as a child will most likely grow up to still be that person. The only thing that can change these facts is trauma.
whats the difference? /gen
@@yeetskeet1581 when playing lego, boys become batman. When playing barbie, barbie become the girls.
They also changed using the Force from a mystical ability developed through devotion to a lifetime of discipline and effort to a mutant superpower that one just has.
It essentially undermines a fundamental feature of the Star Wars Universe/Mythos
Yeah. Even Luke didn't have an awareness of his Force potential as a teenager in Episode 4, while Anakin as a child in Episode 1 was shown to have amazing reflexes and reaction time thanks to his small understanding of the Force, even without training. But it was training that further awoke their abilities.
And ironically, those same people who do that crap also scream their eternal hatred of Lucas's Midichlorians.
To be fair, there are a lot of characters who actually was born to wield the Force. I mean why do you think the Jedi and Sith were able to take in children? Because it's also a mutation.
we as fans should decide that NOTHING disney has put out is cannon in the star wars universe.
like.. publicly, at star wars conventions.. openly and proudly say, their stories are trash and regardless of w/e right... we the fans decide what is cannon.
@@zaberfang True, but usually it's more of a "they have a natural affinity for it" sense, instead of a "this kid's able to crush and levitate rocks whenever they feel like it" sense. I mean sure, extra strong affinities + super strong emotions can sometimes lead to dramatic accidents, but the whole point is that it takes dedication and training to actually harness it in a controlled manner. Hell, it's not even possible to use certain techniques like force lightning on accident, as it takes not just tons of hate, but having it be concentrated and focused in an incredibly specific way.
I’ve been mentioning this to my sister, that if they add a change they must stick to the story, like dishonored, the second one, from what I played is kind of using the same story line but added different changes, and yet still enjoyable
I genuinely thought this was a recent video about Acolyte. Good gods there's no end to this..
As a fanfic writer myself, I feel absolutely ashamed. I do my best to write my stories keeping the original characters personality, expanding some aspects where it's possible according to their profile, and these pseudo-comic authors ruin everything for their reputation taints real fanfic writers. I'm kinda forced to keep quiet about it because everyone thinks that fanfic is either a bad story, or a crazy rumor invented by somebody. Honestly, the only situation where I like woke characters is when their journey is to have their oh-so-right convictions smashed to pieces, in order to make them humble.
There is a clear difference between "good fan-fic" and "bad fan-fic", as shown by good fan-fic authors actually caring about staying consistent with the source material and making characters with believable traits AND understandable flaws.
The reason why fan-fics get such a bad reputation has more to do with the Dunning-Kruger Effect being applicable to bad fan-fic writers, making them think that they're literary geniuses.
So you are just the same as Disney, forcing your political views into your stories. The only difference is world view.
It's almost as if the people creating these characters want the generations who will read them to see not values, hard work, selflessness as heroism but instead just accept that "they are good" because we're told they are. And the goodness they bring to the table is "diversity."
(just for the sake of the internet, I'm required by law to point out "I'm being sarcastic.")
Watched the MCU recently. They DELIBERATELY made good characters in good movies following a strong morality. After "ten years of that shit, they can finally start making movies for the next generation." And we've seen what Star Wars and Marvel is now.
Be safe and well Jennifer, I love your name. Modern Anglicization of my original favourite female protagonist, Guenevere. Beautiful name. Best wishes in your stories
Too bad that the Hollywood people prefer to fund Bad fanfiction instead of good ones
Good fanfic? No such thing
The entire sequel trilogy was a missed opportunity to not have Han Luke and Leia and Lando in a scene together is probably the most unforgivable sin. Having Han go back 30 years in character development and Luke becoming a hopeless hermit… just listing these problems makes me want to assemble an army and an act order 66 on Disney and Lucasfilm
With all the weapons in America, you could easily do that in real life, i mean, how good is security at lucasfilm,
@@chheinrich8486 glowy
@@Mnesterus i dont know what you want to say😅
@@Mnesterus Where’s Strong Woman and the PC Babies?
@@chheinrich8486 average glowie (also Carrie fisher passed away so it is literally no longer possible)
As a gay man myself i hate all the new representation we get because all it does is make it look like we ruined the characters, being gay isnt something that should define you its just another thing about you
WHY THE FUCK did I open a video with "Woke" in its title? Am I stupid?
I thought admiral purple-hair was KK's self insert/monument. A character put in a leadership position and doing a horrible job at it.
And guess what, she's a lesbian who banged Leila off screen. Now you have another reason to hate Miss Purple Hair.
Hasn't Star Wars been massively successful, though?
Another badass women character who’s a good original character in recent memory is Malenia, Blade of Miquella
I can add another: She's not original, but the 2019 version of Carmen Sandiego. Yes, the show is a reboot, but thankfully it knows the various source material that came before it and respects it and the fans, and doesn't have politics
I mean even star wars did good female characters in the fallen order
@@cheesybeans9476 As well as Rebels but that's old by now
Even befor Fallen order star wars had Great female Characters Mara Jade Skywalker an Assassin turned loving Wife and Mother Or Jaina Solo Skywalker twin Sister of Jacen Solo Skywalker Darth Cadeus who had to come to terms with Killing her Beloved Brother or Basstila Shan or Darth Traya or The Exiled Matriss Suri from Kotor 1 ans 2
Exactly. Like everyone knows she is a flawed character. She nuked the entire land to prevent a defeat (it was tie instead - one went senile, she was on her deathbed literally), and the game doesn't try to make her as any victim. She is straight up a boss, the hardest one almost.
Writing flaws aside, it’s just cause deep down you know why they’re going it. They’re using a character you know or grew up with as a tool to talk down to you or belittle you. Sometimes it’s the character themselves or sometimes it’s a new character made to chop that character down for no reason.
I came here because of the Luther Strode thumbnail lol I enjoyed that, and I don’t read many comics
I can think of a few easily digestable reasons why Woke characters fail:
1) 9 times out of 10 they are riding on the cottails of an established character/franchise, showing a lack of creativity and originality. Often this is done at the expense of an existing character who needs to humbled and pushed aside.
2) The moralising is VERY surface level and lacks subtlety. The writer smacks you over the head with the Woke message and uses their OC to push that message.
3) The Woke MC is never challenged or made to question their beliefs. They are treated as morally in-the-right and never change their perspective. They never grow because they are already "right" and perfect, the world has to come around to see things their way. There is no Heroes Journey.
4) The Woke MC is very shallow and self-centred, but their negative traits are not treated as flaws they need to overcome. More often than not they are vindicated in the end and are never forced to see past their biases.
They cannot be projected onto the heroes journey, which destroys the character. Likewise with real life woke people. The most cowardly in society... they have no backbone, only a claim to being offended and "oppressed". We're done with it it is so, so pathetic.
but wtf about it is "woke"???
Like as far as I heard it "woke" is just the new catch phrase used by americans, like "socialist", "liberal", "communist", etc.
Is daenerys from GoT woke? Ripley? Were suffragettes woke?
3 really just describes a villains view, they have a strong idea on what is right, something like killing or taking out people they don't like or agree with, and stay on that stance until a hero tries to stop them but fails since they are so far gone and delusional
Honestly, I kinda want to take a woke character like this and flip it on its head, where everyone hates this person because of this wokeness. Essentially, this wokeness leads to their downfall, because everyone is sick and tired of it. All this characters friends leave because of this obsession with identity and politics combined into one.
Whoever this character is has to learn that being woke can drive people away from you due to the fact that they are forcing these things down people’s throats when they don’t want it.
This character is essentially the definition of “you are your own worst enemy”
@@cyrix6165 What does "wokeness" even mean then???
I thought it just meant to be aware of the systemic issues perpetuated by the state?
I mean if you dont like someone merely because they point out the wrongs of the society we inhabit then... well then thats kind of part of the problem, no?
It's not the needless pandering that really annoys me, but it's the self-righteousness that people have when doing it. Like people changing a characters skin colour to say they "fixed" them, changing a character's sexuality when it didn't matter in the first place, or just cramming self insert "I always win" type shower arguments into their stories. It's not the diversity of it all that's getting grating, but it's the people behind it acting like competent writers, acting like they know best, and how they have more creative potential than the men and women with actual creative talent, who wrote the stories that they're altering to fit their ideology. Creative media has just changed from being creative to a medium to tell thinly-veiled fanfiction by people who don't have the effort or creative potential to write stories of their own.
Bro, literally no one does that. Calm your saggy man-tits. If you didn't consume trash videos like this one, you'd be fine.
For some reason, that kind of reminds me of Imperialism.
How I see it is if the writer wants a character to be black, the character to be black. making a white character black does not "represent" black people, as if they needed any.
same thing with "gender", you don't need a character to represent you because if you want a character that is a gender or colour, you can't just have them be the same, and if so then why does it matter if they're not "fixed" or whatever
I got into an argument about that on a Facebook group when someone posted art of InuYasha characters reimagined as Africans. The most insulting was "it just looks right". Africans in Japanese clothing and backgrounds, but it isn't cultural appropriation. Honestly, the art was great. But all the exorbitant celebrations was just proving that diversity means black characters.
these new pieces of attempted entertainment seem to lack a person who is passionate about storytelling and have probably studied it, many people are passionate about this and they can whip up a serviceable story for a comic or whatever. It also seems like there is no quality control, can't they just get a few competent people to give their feedback so they can fix their mess.
In my opinion, one of my favorite characters from pop culture is furiosa. She’s a great example of a strong female lead that doesn’t seem woke or trying to push a narrative. She doesn’t seem to be taking the place of max but instead in fury road they had to work together to survive. She isn’t always the one saving everyone and needs help sometimes but at the same time she can also hold her own. She also loses some fights which makes her feel more human but she doesn’t go down without a fight. I haven’t seen the new furiosa yet but I am so excited to see it. From what I’ve seen from the trailers they keep her the same as fury road without going into gender politics and all that other bull. People just want deep and interesting character and that’s why I think furiosa is a perfect example
Aphra was such a good character. She was a crucial part of the Darth Vader comics. I wish companies would take notes.
The difference between a good self insert and a bad self insert is this: a good self insert was made by someone who wants to do something cool, say creating a Time Machine and traveling through time, while a bad self insert is made by someone who wants to be someone cool, the protagonist of a popular story for example. The good self insert works because we want to read stories about people doing cool things.
It helps if the Good Self Insert has a decent sense of honesty and humor about themselves.
@@Whitby_Abbeys_Ghost Rohan Kishibe fits the bill
I think a good example of this is Stan Lee with all his movies, he inserted himself intothe movies, not as a main lead or related storywise for any main plot point, but he inserted himself as a side character that did a small something, almost as a comedic relief.
Nah you got it wrong tbh cause Spider-Man would fit your bad insert definition a Good insert is someone who actually has character and not some Mary Sue or Gary Stu with a one note personality and or goals
Writers with good self inserts aren't afraid to let them deal with hardships in the story as long as they learn and grow from them without compromising their integrity.
4:14 If you are including Starkiller you should also include Ahsoka Tano, she is an even better example because she was hated in the first episodes. but later was accepted when her character was improved.
Your right about Ahsoka. She was made a nasty person at first on prepose. It was to show her having blind spots that she couldn't see in her character. As the show progressed, she became more self aware and matured to see her bad ways and change. It's a lesson in a few things. One: Bad character traits such as pride should be called out. Two: Everyone has room to grow and change. Three: Becoming humble will make you enduring.
That is why she is so loved. She is a good example of what youth can be. We can all easily start our youth thinking we know it all, that our elders are outdated, we can educate them. But the truth is we know so little and need the wisdom of others and the guidance of a steady hand to become much more that we are. Ahsoka exemplifies this growing into someone better.
Ahsoka would be a better character if all they wanted was a female lead too
Can't wait to see them ruin ashoka too in their new shows she is next on the cutting block
@@cin2110 I hate how right you are
And she was a good friend
Luke, did i ever tell you about Ahsoka Tano? She was your father's exotic teenage alien apprentice, a fine piece of jailbait from a more civilized age.
She had the tigherst body and the perkiest little breasts in the galaxy; barely legal in most systems.
Anakin and I used to doubleteam her at the end of every successful campaign during the Clone Wars and once in a while we'd have the whole 501st run a train over her, part of official Jedi "training" of course.
In time, she learned how to handle a meatsaber better than anyone in the Jedi Temple. She wore a miniskirt every day so we told her there were no panties in space, and since she was constantly doing acrobatics you'd get a glimpse of her orange pussy mid flights as she'd do a flip while slicing a B2 Super Battledroid in half.
It was surreal.
We taught her to grip her weapon backwards like a dildo and she constantly got captured by pirates and slavers almost every other day. It was ridiculous, like a constant porno Luke, you have no idea.
And she was a good friend.
I'm new to your videos, having been brought into your channel from your recent Baldur's Gate videos which are excellent and spot on. I think you make a very valid points about the gaming industry, points I have felt myself and appreciate your voicing.
And in this video, I can accept your point that superficially inserting (so-called "woke") characters with diverse backgrounds into roles traditionally played by straight white men can lead to shallow storytelling. These stories were told at a time when society had room for only those voices, thanks to a history of suppressive laws and culture. I'd hope you acknowledge this much, as I say yours is also wholly valid, as is your point that "forcing" these characters can lead some folks who cherish the stories to become exasperated, and perhaps even less tolerant over time.
But, respectfully, I think you overreach when you say you cannot acknowledge the word "patriarchy." This moment in your video is like a Tesla owner smelling their own self-righteous farts. England is a matriarchy and now a patriarchy. Nearly every native american tribe was matriarchal prior to westward expansion. To look at the whole of western history and not acknowledge patriarchal/matriarchal systems is overly simplistic, and worse, to do so in such a dismissive way is incredibly damaging to the healing that is needed in America today. I'm disappointed to hear your otherwise sensible perspective fall to a low place in this way.
As you say, at least have the conversation... We are all becoming more connected in this world, and whatever "wokeism" is seems wholly in reaction to the racial reckoning that America is slogging through painfully. There's no need to make it worse by loudly proclaiming ignorance to toxic male oppression.
I 100% agree, as someone who’s bi It’s so frustrating to see poorly written virtual signalling characters that are straight up bad. Gives me a sour taste in my mouth, I don’t care about characters having the same sexuality or race as me, I just want well made characters
The problem with all of these characters is twofold. On the first hit, they are as deep as the average porn character, and sometimes are even more shallow than that. On the second, their creators throw absolute tantrums any time you point this out, adding an element of contempt as well as idiocy.
I've seen that happen to DC's Starfire. Boy that was an ugly thing to read.
@@mintaddict1 That self insert thing from a few years ago? On the upside, someone made a short response comic wherein Slade explains to the author that now, no matter what she does, her character is now subject to the Rules of the Internet. It was glorious. I'm still trying to find it though.
A lot of the people writing them seem to be seasoned porn fanfiction writers
@@jesustyronechrist2330 If they were, then at least the porn would be entertaining. They can't even manage that much.
There's not enough alcohol on this world to make me care about anything Disney puts out anymore.
Not even bud light?
It all boils down to the characters being Mary Sues for me, or just being poorly written “checklists” like ENDY said. Where’s the training arc, where’s the character growth, where’s them learning their lessons, or experience hell before before they work hard to climb out and succeed?
Clubber Lang played by Mr. T was also in a Rocky movie and his appearance was in Rocky boxing video game.
what made luke, and by extension anakin, so damn special is because their respect journeys to where they were. they started off on a desert planet with little in the way propects for a future. in comes a wise older mentor who was able to show them a wider world. they go out into the wider world but still lacked experience. they grow up to become better people (luke becomes a commander and anakin a jedi) but still make mistakes. they both take on sith masters and end up not only losing but being maimed in the process, leaving behind a premiant reminder of what their hotheadedness got them. in the third movie, they are both important figures in their respect organization: luke in the rebel alliance and anakin with the order/republic. but their choices send them on opposite paths: anakin falls to the dark side and luke rises to the light. their stories are full of pain and struggle.
rey has no such journey. she could already fly the falcon better than han. she gains the use of the jedi mind trick, a technique that not even luke had down in his outtings. she outduels kylo ren, a man trained by both snook and luke, despite having never touched a lightsaber before this. she receives very little training from luke but is still able to do shit that not even anakin and luke could do in their second movies. and she learns a force power that not even yoda, the greatest grandmaster of the jedi order, couldn't do. rey didn't earn anything. she was given it.
facts 💯
It took luke until the third movie to master the mind trick. It took Rey half of the first movie
It's because she's a Palpatine. The most powerful of all force users ever. Why? Because ultimately he won, but before that "he returned somehow".
Yup, Disney the big bad evil company made the big bad evil guy the ultimate winner of the franchise.
@@SquishysforbreakfastSkywalkers literally inherit some of Anakins potential
When it comes to a female character they're either great, characters like Black widow are great because they're not perfect. Then you have bad characters who are self inserts and given everything, Rey is that type of character.
Anime proves that audiences are open to new diverse characters.
Exactly.
well the different with anime is, there are all kind of different series, so even if you hate one, you can just read the other but comic just stuck with the same characters for all those years, then they decided to screw those characters up to be more "modern"
Even anime would hate it if some character like Naruto or Goku sudden change to be gay now even though they show to love woman since forever.
@@shikniwho7215 Japan doesn't deal with much bs that America does.
If by "new and diverse" you mean "endless clones of whatever trend is currently popular".
@@shikniwho7215 The thing that’s different about anime is that what the character is doesn’t matter; it’s all about WHO the character is. They don’t shoehorn diversity into the show to tick a box - it’s all secondary to actual plot, backstory, and real character building. Their identity is built on story, not demographic standing. They also don’t take these aspects super-seriously and still know how to have fun and be creative and original.
2:08 That picture on the right looks like Guy Pierce in LA Confidential.
There are worse things than being a self-insert in a comic.
The idea that your ideal lover is Deadpool, I can get looking past the fact that he's basically a living tumor that won't die, but he is not someone you want to be involved with.
You are going to die, be it from his enemies trying to get at him, or by Deadpool's own hands.
Miles morales is a good example of having a diverse character that doesn’t disrespect the former characters Peter passes the light onto miles and miles respects Peter’s legacy and they also explore miles’ cultural differences without making it his whole character and reason he exists. He’s simply a well written character that’s why he’s such a successful character
What is a "diverse character"? Is that code for nonwhite? If so, why don't we all just say what we actually mean without veiled speech? That said, I agree with your main point, that Miles Morales is a much better character, and I enjoyed Spiderman despite all the obvious minority aspect inserts (e.g. parents talking Spanish) because they felt more natural, as aspects that filled in the world details rather than being endemic to the plot or full of a preachy message.
Miles Morales is a mulatto created to replace a straight white man, Peter Parker.
I dont like the fact that they call him ¨Spiderman¨ when Peter's still around. He should have a different name. Other than that , he's ok
@@fanofgodjimindiva2497 There hundreds of Spidermen across mutliple universes. Would you name every single Spiderman a different one? e.g. Tarantulaman. Brown recluse man, Daddy long legs man...
@@fdwr He lives in the same universe as Peter, and Peter's not dead, so yeah, they should change his name. Do the same thing with the two Hawkeyes, the one with penis and the upstart with vagina, while they're at it.
A perfect example of writing good female and male characters is my second favorite video game resident evil 5. Both Chris(a white male) and Sheva(a black female) are both well written. They both are capable people who don't sideline the other character, hey both help each other out, and the both have traumatic past, and they are both love characters among the resident evil community.
Chris VS Boulder was the most beautifully choreographed fight scene in all of gaming history.
Jokes aside, I agree. Some people didn't like RE5, but I did. Its great.
I know its not totally related, but I appreciate Josh's voice actor pretty much telling the people calling the game "racist" that it takes place in Africa. There is gonna be black people and to just enjoy the game
Apparently if you like Resident Evil 5 in current year, you are a racist… *rolls eyes so hard I can see my on brain*
Resident evil as a whole is the perfect example of why you don’t need to be pandering to write awesome and strong female characters.
There dialogues are goofy thou.
I think the problem with the characters the most is that their wokeness is seen as a personality trait which never works. I love seeing characters that are woke but it’s not their main motivation defining characteristic. An example would be Ellie from TLOU part 2. Where she is gay but that isn’t what the story is about. The story is about forgiveness and letting go of revenge. With her relationship making her more grounded as an individual
5:36 i have a place near me that is advertised as a Bar and grill it also has the whole cowboy, wild west aesthetic however they dont sell stake and is a glorified curry house
It's also worth mentioning that there's a huge difference self inserting yourself into something pre-established, compared to self inserting yourself in something that is being established.
One is a fanfic while the other is the way it was designed to be.
Woke just inserted a rainbow into peoples rectums without realiseing it is just one big colourful pain in the ass that people don't like
Remember when writers were criticized for putting gay characters in TV shows because one of their defining characteristics was "gay"?
Funny how the mob that took over those writing positions are doing the exact same thing, yet thumping their chests about it.
Having lgbt characters or a diverse skin colors characters are completely fine, what is not fine is their story and personality are a hot pile of garbage.
The acolyte was cancelled thankfully, but the concept of it was so good. Imagine being able to see the process of becoming an ancient sith, it would've been amazing if executed properly.
12:15
Name me one time anyone in the bat family was homophobic