I just wish it wasn't undermined by Clara trying to pull the rug out from under him. I kind of wish he had just responded to her with "You haven't seen all I am capable of Clara." or something to that effect. The way the scene leaves it, is that the Doctor hasn't actually got the balls to back up that kind of talk with action because soon as he hurts someone he will stop.
@@defiante1 Pulling the Doctor back from crazy is the Companions whole job description. Ten had two different episodes devoted to what happened when he didn't have someone there to stop him.
Whether you liked Clara as a companion or not, she owned up to her actions and accepted the responsibility and consequences without blaming anyone else. She continued her legacy of saving the Doctor to the best of her ability even unto death, which she met with as much dignity and grace as the situation allowed. If for nothing else, she deserves respect for that.
Yeah, I just wish they didn't continually try to push Clara up in esteem by pushing the Doctor down. I liked her concepts and character, I just never saw why it was constantly done at the Doctors expense. In fact there are numerous episodes with Clara where the Doctor is reduced to a side character, like that stupid Moon one.
Capaldi is absolutely chilling in this episode. You really feel just how dangerous the man underneath really is. We've had glimpses of this before (Family of Blood and A Good Man Goes to War, spring to mind), but there's just something so terrifying in the way Peter delivers those lines. He honestly feels like he's suddenly playing a villain. Fantastic actor.
I think this is one of the rare occasions where knowing in advance that Jenna Coleman was leaving made it easier to accept it was real. We all knew this was it for her. I vividly remember watching it while internally screaming "NOT LIKE THIS, THIS IS BRUTAL!"
Series 9 solidified Capaldi as my favourite Doctor. His speech in episode 8 was amazing. His final scenes in this episode were amazing. But the next episode is probably my favourite Doctor Who episode ever!
4:19 YES, Clara IS doctor-like! That is her character arc in a single word. She is too much like the doctor for her own good. That is her strengths, that is her flaws, that is why she and the Doctor like eachother and that is why they never will be right for eachother. It's why they enable each others addictions and how they save hundreds of people. Clara is the Doctor as the Companion. I truly believe it's why some people don't really like her, but I love her for it.
The Doctor is no longer here. Interesting how sometimes this incarnation separates himself from the Doctor persona. We havent see that before in any incarnation. 12 questions his identity and purpose more than any other.
Capaldi has so many great lines before this episode, it's easy to forget this is where most Whovians started to pay attention to his run as the 12th Doctor. Case in point when he goes full 10 "Fury of a timelord" with "The Doctor isn't here right now, you're stuck with me" and "The universe is a VERY small place when I'm angry at you" I will say that Moffat had too much of a tendency for bringing dead characters back or doing death fake outs(such as Amy and Rory) which tends to nerf the in the moment feelings. But there's no shortage of amazing performances here, from Jenna to Maise to Capaldi.....all incredible
I know everyone talks about the last 10 minutes or so, but I think it's worth mentioning how great the previous 35 were too. Even without the bold emotional ending, "Face the Raven" would be a fantastic episode, and a very strong debut for writer Sarah Dollard. The decision to take the idea of 'Trap Streets' and turn them into hidden streets where alien refugees live in secret was absolutely inspired, and featuring some brilliant bits of worldbuilding, such as the uneasy relationships between the aliens and humans, as well as the Quantum Shade, which is a subtly unnerving concept that's executed fantastically. The mystery plot is also really compelling, as with "Under the Lake" earlier this series, it's great fun to see the Doctor and Clara playing detective and trying to work out who set up Rigsy, and the way it all built up to the reveal that the whole mystery was a trap to ensnare the Doctor was a brilliantly shocking moment. The countdown on Rigsy's neck also keeps the tension escalating throughout the story, and it helps that the character has once again been written and performed in such a likeable fashion. A particularly underrated moment I find is the sequence where they encounter Anah's "corpse" - Clara goes into Doctory moralising about the outrage of condemning Rigsy based on nothing, while he simply asks what her name is, a great moment that emphasises the ersatz Doctor/companion relationship they have. But then, of course, everything goes horribly wrong, and it's here that the episode excels. Regardless of your feelings on Clara as a character, her final moments are gut-wrenchingly beautiful, heartbreaking, and just perfect. Dollard has characterised both Clara and the Doctor fantastically throughout this episode, but the dialogue she provides for the pair during the climax is truly phenomenal, lyrical and powerful without coming across as pretentious or overly saccharine. I love how Clara really takes on the Doctor role in these final moments, as after some emotional torment, she accepts her incoming death, and uses her last moments to reassure the Doctor, absolve him (and Rigsy) of any blame, and stand him down and prevent him falling victim to vengeance, proving that she truly knows and understands him as a person ("your reign of terror will end with the sight of the first crying child"). It's the perfect ending for her as a character, exemplifying her faults and failings (her hubris, her recklessness, and her desire to try and be the Doctor), but also demonstrating her strengths as an individual, namely her kindness, her bravery, and her love for those closest to her, and Jenna Coleman plays these scenes beautifully. But of course, it's not just her that stands out, Peter Capaldi does a phenomenal job at showing the continual shifts in the Doctor's emotions throughout these scenes, from shock, to desperation, to denial, to sorrow, and finally quiet, simmering, pant-shittingly frightening rage. Throughout these moments, as Katrina intimated, you get a hint of just how unhealthy and co-dependent the Doctor and Clara's relationship has become, and though she tries to calm him down, you can't escape this uneasy feeling as the credits roll that the Doctor is about to fly off the handle in a big way. Much like "Utopia", what we have is the first part of a three-part finale masquerading as a standalone episode, wherein it functions excellently as both at the same time. There's a compelling mystery, fantastic worldbuilding, and great character work, all of which leads to a shocking and emotionally powerful ending that catapults us into the rest of the story with loads of questions; - Is Clara really going to stay dead? - Where is the Doctor being sent? - Who set this whole thing up in the first place? - What will the Doctor do once he reaches his unwilling destination? - And most pressingly of all...how many seconds in eternity?
I understand the dislike with the "death" of Clara. the point was the Universe gave the Doctor someone on par with him, someone to stay with him. In the end she became to much like him. On Peter's acting in this episode, he is the only Doctor I've actually been afraid of. That line, " You've read the stories, you know who I am. In all that time did you ever hear of anyone who stopped me?" Is right up there with Matt Smith in A Good Man Goes To War.
While Capaldi is the better actor... I'd actually put McCoy right up there with him in the 'oh dear god you're all doomed' stakes. Somewhere there's footage of McCoy reading the Pandorica speech at a convention and it hits *very* differently from the original.
I find Smith the most terrifying he can switch at a heart beat and he wasn’t the one to give second chances and would be more unforgiving Capaldi is close behind but he is more kind hearted
I generally don’t mind Clara’s fake deaths as they do build on her character as something of an addict who got too much like the Doctor for her own good. Eventually it was going to catch up with her. I also love when the Raven hits her she hold out her arms like she’s going to regenerate but then she falls with black smoke pouring from her instead of golden energy. Great symbolism in this episode. I’d argue the fake put deaths are better under Moffat than RTD, Rose got absolutely ridiculous towards the end of her run.
@@ftumschk Rose had a single fake death with the transmat beam, and they had the good sense to not make it a massive spectacle. I'm not overly fond of how they handled Doomsday, but an ominous speech is not a fake death. I guess you could count something like Dalek, but that lasted for a few seconds, just enough to give the Doctor a bit more character.
@@ozzyp97 the this is the story of how i died is even worse than any fake death tbh. just lying to the audience directly lol for no reason apart from a small line in the end of series 3.
@@dutchman8887 As I said it's not my favourite either, but why would you take the narration at face value? It's about building tension, it'd make no sense if they weren't planning on subverting it somehow.
I cried a lot the first time I saw this. Even cried a little still. But I love scene between the doctor and Clara at the end. You put it in the right words, it did justice for her character. Became a little too good of a Doctor for her own good
The next episode is the best of all time by itself but when you realise the context and all the little things it elevates it to the next level everything is perfect in it. Can’t wait for it
Rewatching Steven moffat era of Doctor Who I’ve notices how he like to tease the fate of characters. No matter what they did with the Clara character the actress killed each scene. I keep rewatching Clara scenes just for the performance. She was so good I didn’t realize the complaint people had against her.
I don't understand why the line "you shouldn't have to ask" was contradicted. It's not about removing Clara's ability to decide for herself (or 'agency', as per the modern vernacular), it's about the Doctor's desire to protect without reward. Thing is, whose 'agency' do you retain in that situation - Clara's or the Doctor's? Unless you really think that scene was about a man telling a woman to do, in which case I really don't know what to say about that, frankly.
Next episode is my favorite of the season and the moment between the Doctor and Clara at the end is great, happy thanksgiving and enjoy the continual viewing
I suspect many would agree the next episode is one of the finest examples of contemporary science fiction committed to film. It speaks of the heart(s) of the Doctor more than almost any other story.
Hey, I love this reaction! I had a lot of similar thoughts and feelings when I first watched this episode too. I think it’s important to point out the toxicity in their relationship; it’s important to their characters and their stories at this point. I know toxic can be a strong word, but it doesn’t mean it is the wrong one, so I appreciate you guys touching on that subject while recognizing how that was explored in this episode.
Between Joivan Wade, Letitia Wright and Naomi Ackie, this retroactively became one of the most stacked casts in Doctor Who history. Doctor Who - forge of talent.
Yeah, it's funny, I totally remembered Joivan being in it, as I pointed him out to my wife when we started 'Doom Patrol', but I'd TOTALLY forgotten about Letitia Wright being in it! Or Naomi Ackie!
Oh my goodness, you're here, you made it! For me, the next two episodes and especially the following Christmas special (!!!) is the zenith of rebooted Dr. Who, with the usual Moffat-y caveats. I don't necessarily think either of you will agree, but I'm super excited for you to watch nonetheless! They're my most re-watched, probably.
Back when this first aired, when I got home after getting tormented with Yahoo mentions of "Jenna Coleman" and "Clara Oswald" all day I pulled this episode off of the DVR. And exactly halfway through the episode I paused it, dread in my heart, and walked to my brother on the porch of our house (he'd already seen it) and said, "Oh... no. She's being _clever_ ..." There's not much more to say. This has been an interesting stretch since the last two episodes of Series 8, because I like Amy, I like Rory, and I _love_ Clara. Probably because of the timing of my very first episode which was "The Bells of St. John". (Though my first attempt at watching it? When Matt said "It's me, the Doctor!" and Jenna said "Doctor Who?" I rolled my eyes so hard I changed the channel. I had no idea that was a running gag :P ...) So that means that Matt Smith is my Doctor and Clara was actually my first companion, though I did make sure to watch any and all marathons of NuWho to catch up on the other episodes, which led me to rank the other previous companions from first to last Rory, Amy, Donna, Sarah Jane, Martha, Craig, The Next Doctor, Brian 'Pond', Christina from the Planet of the Dead... maybe some other people and then Rose (entirely because Billie Piper got seriously shafted by the writing in the second series. If we split Rose into 1st Series Rose and 2nd Series Rose 1st Series Rose jumps ahead of _Donna_ and 2nd Series Rose takes the L by a strong margin. #aside). What was I saying? Oh, yes, the point is that it was rather difficult watching the reactions to the proceeding episodes after "Dark Water" for a bit. It really did feel like some of it was residual anger from the beginning of that episode for a while... but I will completely agree on one idea, that I feel like you guys expressed very well: the problem was the Danny storyline was just. Not. Well. Written. In your opinion and mine in retrospect. It had a great beginning to an Epic Love Story, and a great end, but it seriously was missing the _meat_ of the story. Episodes that could have been setting up how amazing their love was instead were spent breaking into banks and running off with Robin Hood. I feel like Moffat sometimes writes backwards, and sometimes... he skips part of the story.
I am so glad that I was able to enjoy watching you guys go through this (especially Paula for the first time). I do understand the idea that you don't want to be fooled. I say it all the time, we as an audience love to be deceived but we don't like to be made a fool of. In that light I understand. I still have a very different perspective on the character of Clara than you two do BUT I was so afraid going into this episode (as I've been waiting for it for so long) I was so afraid of what might be said or quipped during some of these very intense scenes that could potentially spoiled the weight of them. But you did a wonderful job, I think, of allowing the moments to breath. I left your Patreon and was a little heartbroken that had become necessary for me, but I have never stopped following the two of you and enjoying the content you create outside of Doctor Who and I want to make it clear, for as much as it matters, that my opinion of you both is that you're lovely people and that has never changed, never even wavered. I am glad I was able to enjoy this particular journey with you.
One thing this wish was just slightly different, more in the overarching storyline with Me, is I think Clara should have been the one to use the device on Ashildr to bring her back to life; in an attempt to be more like the Doctor, only for there to be unforeseen consequences - which was her season arc. Making it more fitting that this is how it culminates.
"...did you ever hear anything about anyone who stopped me!?" Um, actually, yeah. But...not gonna say since it could give away a little of what happens after the next episode. The actors are usually great when they get to be serious and angry as The Doctor. This was no exception! As for Edgar Allen Poe, was more of a fan of "The Tell Tale Heart" than "The Raven."
FINALLY some genuine emotional reaction. If you watch something like Blind Wave, you can't really get that. 😅 So I cherish the smaller channels, who do these. And I love that they muted Clara's scream here. However: There is an EXCELLENT trailer, Katrin Depp did. She put in a scream again. I really hope, her content is still findable on this platform. It must have been one of her Doctor Who trailers, would highly recommend you to look them up. It was probably either "Darkness - Doctor Who" or "Silver Of Ice". My two favorites....
I remember we studied "The Raven" at school in Wales around 1979-80 (God bless and RIP, Mr Evans). As I'd acquired a taste for gothic horror during the Hinchcliffe era of Doctor Who, the Poe anthology "Tales of Mystery and Imagination" was one of my favourite books at the time. I've still got it somewhere :)
i still haven't been able to re-watch this episode properly, it broke me and i actually ended up not watching for about 3 months after this ep. i just couldn't handle it for some reason. i'll try and get through the full reaction but its a tough watch for me.
I never actualy believed Clara would be killed. I thought it was another fakeout, like faccing the raven (unlike the other people in the alley) would make the raven do something different. And then she actually drops dead in the street I'm like WTF??
I love this episode, cause it is a great end to what Clara have become. She was big-headed, overly smart Doctor-esque companion that have bitten too much than she could swallow. I mean Doctor also had died in more reckless and stupid ways, so it definitely fits.
My one and only issue with Clara's death was how in the episiodes before this one they made her extra reckless, so that a larger part of the blame would end on her. It felt a bit victim-blamy for me.
I’m fairly certain they’ve filmed atleast the finale, and I’m pretty certain we’re going to end another season with Paula very rightfully being annoyed at Moffat. One thing I can see her liking about Chibnall is that his death sticks for the most part
not rightfully at all. the finale is his best work. what deaths has chibnall even had to stick to? one episode character dont count because then moffat would have several.
@@dutchman8887 it’s a decent episode, but Clara is the problem with it. She has a send off already and it’s perfect. Not all deaths need to be grandiose and her getting overconfident leading to her dying is tragic. She was too much like the Doctor and it cost her just like Donna, except like she says this was her fault. Hellbent seems to reward Clara by making her functionally immortal and giving her agency in time and space with her own TARDIS. Sure she has to return to her death but she goes the “long way round.” As for Chibnall, he has had a few but I’m wanting to avoid spoiling anything if comments are looked at so I won’t talk on them
@@dutchman8887 its insane to me that you say "not rightfully at all" this is a reaction channel. However Paula or I end up reacting to something is just fine. We may have different opinions or different responses to how other people watch this because ... That's how reactions work. That's how being human works. We're going to have difference in opinion on things and that doesn't immediately make either one of us right or wrong.
Paula - your reaction here, about them playing chicken with death too many times, and about how this was a perfect ending for Clara .... Since you've already seen it, this is why Hell Bent is my least favorite episode of Doctor Who.
So the way information about upcoming episodes was given to fans as the show airs, if you're following the news then you know which episode is going to be the departure of a companion and which episode will be the departure of an incarnation of the doctor. On the whole knowing this information isnt spoilery and actually puts certain parts of these episodes in a different context that allows you to realize when things are real. Like the episode when amy and rory left, you two took that as moffatt being a dick about playing with will they or wont they die when it was really playing with how they leave the show because moffatt wrote the episode knowing that the viewers would know this was amy and rory's last one. With face the raven, fans knew this death scene was real because we were aware of ienna coleman departing before the episode came out so knowing that information allowed fans to allow themselves to get swept away. The reason that clara has been faked out so many times is because jenna coleman had a bad habit of waiting until the last minute to renew her contracts with the show. The last christmas special was originally supposed to be clara's last appearance but jenna made the decision to stay so last minute that moffatt had to rewrite the ending to allow clara to remain with the doctor. Just remember that sometimes the writing has to accomodate wonky scheduling and its not the writing's fault so much as it is contract negotiations in the real world that effect the characters.
No stakes / false stakes - the curse of Moffat. So many fakeouts and dumb twists, takes great moments and dulls them. Still a great episode..and about to go into a top 10 one in my humble.
It's felt like a life time waiting for this Episode. Thank GOD the egotist is gone and we NEVER see her again. About time to. Sophie makes a much better companion.
I hate this episode... The risk-taking Clara wasn't consistent, hasn't been a part of the character ever, though would have made sense after Danny died IF she'd been taking the repeatedly big risks as she did hanging out of the TARDIS. Not even the episode immediately preceding this one. It just felt so inconsistent, granted that fact was on par, which pulls me out of the episode.
"The Doctor is no longer here, you're stuck with me!"
Terrifying. Just terrifying.
That was briliant.
Shade of the Valeyard.
The only thing missing from 13: I'm not scared of her. The Doctor is always halfway between Sherlock and Moriarty.
I just wish it wasn't undermined by Clara trying to pull the rug out from under him. I kind of wish he had just responded to her with "You haven't seen all I am capable of Clara." or something to that effect. The way the scene leaves it, is that the Doctor hasn't actually got the balls to back up that kind of talk with action because soon as he hurts someone he will stop.
@@defiante1 Pulling the Doctor back from crazy is the Companions whole job description. Ten had two different episodes devoted to what happened when he didn't have someone there to stop him.
Whether you liked Clara as a companion or not, she owned up to her actions and accepted the responsibility and consequences without blaming anyone else. She continued her legacy of saving the Doctor to the best of her ability even unto death, which she met with as much dignity and grace as the situation allowed. If for nothing else, she deserves respect for that.
Yeah, I just wish they didn't continually try to push Clara up in esteem by pushing the Doctor down. I liked her concepts and character, I just never saw why it was constantly done at the Doctors expense. In fact there are numerous episodes with Clara where the Doctor is reduced to a side character, like that stupid Moon one.
Death? She's still not dead and she gets a TARDIS which she did not deserve and couldn't steer out of it.
Capaldi is absolutely chilling in this episode. You really feel just how dangerous the man underneath really is. We've had glimpses of this before (Family of Blood and A Good Man Goes to War, spring to mind), but there's just something so terrifying in the way Peter delivers those lines. He honestly feels like he's suddenly playing a villain.
Fantastic actor.
"I WILL END YOU AND EVERYTHING YOU LOVE!" When the most feared thing in all the universe speaks those words, you have but one option; run...
I think this is one of the rare occasions where knowing in advance that Jenna Coleman was leaving made it easier to accept it was real. We all knew this was it for her. I vividly remember watching it while internally screaming "NOT LIKE THIS, THIS IS BRUTAL!"
Series 9 solidified Capaldi as my favourite Doctor. His speech in episode 8 was amazing. His final scenes in this episode were amazing. But the next episode is probably my favourite Doctor Who episode ever!
Excerpt from Me's journals; "Then, when he said, "You'll find that it's a very small universe when I AM ANGRY WITH YOU." I shat myself."
Earlier excerpt from Me's journal: "And then I told the Doctor she'd blow away like smoke."
4:19 YES, Clara IS doctor-like! That is her character arc in a single word. She is too much like the doctor for her own good. That is her strengths, that is her flaws, that is why she and the Doctor like eachother and that is why they never will be right for eachother. It's why they enable each others addictions and how they save hundreds of people. Clara is the Doctor as the Companion.
I truly believe it's why some people don't really like her, but I love her for it.
The Doctor is no longer here. Interesting how sometimes this incarnation separates himself from the Doctor persona. We havent see that before in any incarnation. 12 questions his identity and purpose more than any other.
Capaldi has so many great lines before this episode, it's easy to forget this is where most Whovians started to pay attention to his run as the 12th Doctor. Case in point when he goes full 10 "Fury of a timelord" with "The Doctor isn't here right now, you're stuck with me" and "The universe is a VERY small place when I'm angry at you" I will say that Moffat had too much of a tendency for bringing dead characters back or doing death fake outs(such as Amy and Rory) which tends to nerf the in the moment feelings. But there's no shortage of amazing performances here, from Jenna to Maise to Capaldi.....all incredible
“She was saving you.”
“I was lost a long time ago. She was saving you.”
She knows him TOO well
I know everyone talks about the last 10 minutes or so, but I think it's worth mentioning how great the previous 35 were too. Even without the bold emotional ending, "Face the Raven" would be a fantastic episode, and a very strong debut for writer Sarah Dollard. The decision to take the idea of 'Trap Streets' and turn them into hidden streets where alien refugees live in secret was absolutely inspired, and featuring some brilliant bits of worldbuilding, such as the uneasy relationships between the aliens and humans, as well as the Quantum Shade, which is a subtly unnerving concept that's executed fantastically. The mystery plot is also really compelling, as with "Under the Lake" earlier this series, it's great fun to see the Doctor and Clara playing detective and trying to work out who set up Rigsy, and the way it all built up to the reveal that the whole mystery was a trap to ensnare the Doctor was a brilliantly shocking moment. The countdown on Rigsy's neck also keeps the tension escalating throughout the story, and it helps that the character has once again been written and performed in such a likeable fashion. A particularly underrated moment I find is the sequence where they encounter Anah's "corpse" - Clara goes into Doctory moralising about the outrage of condemning Rigsy based on nothing, while he simply asks what her name is, a great moment that emphasises the ersatz Doctor/companion relationship they have.
But then, of course, everything goes horribly wrong, and it's here that the episode excels. Regardless of your feelings on Clara as a character, her final moments are gut-wrenchingly beautiful, heartbreaking, and just perfect. Dollard has characterised both Clara and the Doctor fantastically throughout this episode, but the dialogue she provides for the pair during the climax is truly phenomenal, lyrical and powerful without coming across as pretentious or overly saccharine. I love how Clara really takes on the Doctor role in these final moments, as after some emotional torment, she accepts her incoming death, and uses her last moments to reassure the Doctor, absolve him (and Rigsy) of any blame, and stand him down and prevent him falling victim to vengeance, proving that she truly knows and understands him as a person ("your reign of terror will end with the sight of the first crying child"). It's the perfect ending for her as a character, exemplifying her faults and failings (her hubris, her recklessness, and her desire to try and be the Doctor), but also demonstrating her strengths as an individual, namely her kindness, her bravery, and her love for those closest to her, and Jenna Coleman plays these scenes beautifully. But of course, it's not just her that stands out, Peter Capaldi does a phenomenal job at showing the continual shifts in the Doctor's emotions throughout these scenes, from shock, to desperation, to denial, to sorrow, and finally quiet, simmering, pant-shittingly frightening rage. Throughout these moments, as Katrina intimated, you get a hint of just how unhealthy and co-dependent the Doctor and Clara's relationship has become, and though she tries to calm him down, you can't escape this uneasy feeling as the credits roll that the Doctor is about to fly off the handle in a big way.
Much like "Utopia", what we have is the first part of a three-part finale masquerading as a standalone episode, wherein it functions excellently as both at the same time. There's a compelling mystery, fantastic worldbuilding, and great character work, all of which leads to a shocking and emotionally powerful ending that catapults us into the rest of the story with loads of questions;
- Is Clara really going to stay dead?
- Where is the Doctor being sent?
- Who set this whole thing up in the first place?
- What will the Doctor do once he reaches his unwilling destination?
- And most pressingly of all...how many seconds in eternity?
Love this episode. It is beautifully tragic. Clara " I will die, and no one else, here or anywhere, will suffer." Doctor "What about me?"
"Why can't I be like you?" being like the Doctor is not always a good thing. There's a reason they're not good without companions for long.
I understand the dislike with the "death" of Clara. the point was the Universe gave the Doctor someone on par with him, someone to stay with him. In the end she became to much like him. On Peter's acting in this episode, he is the only Doctor I've actually been afraid of. That line, " You've read the stories, you know who I am. In all that time did you ever hear of anyone who stopped me?" Is right up there with Matt Smith in A Good Man Goes To War.
While Capaldi is the better actor... I'd actually put McCoy right up there with him in the 'oh dear god you're all doomed' stakes. Somewhere there's footage of McCoy reading the Pandorica speech at a convention and it hits *very* differently from the original.
I find Smith the most terrifying he can switch at a heart beat and he wasn’t the one to give second chances and would be more unforgiving Capaldi is close behind but he is more kind hearted
@@smiddlehurst1 Agreed! (But Seven is my Doctor, so I'm biased)
Also - "You're in the biggest library in the universe - look me up!"
adore this episode and also adore the next two and always will. clara's "why can't i be like you" shatters my heart every time
I don't think any line has cut right to the core of Clara's character as effectively as those six words, beautiful writing
I generally don’t mind Clara’s fake deaths as they do build on her character as something of an addict who got too much like the Doctor for her own good. Eventually it was going to catch up with her. I also love when the Raven hits her she hold out her arms like she’s going to regenerate but then she falls with black smoke pouring from her instead of golden energy. Great symbolism in this episode. I’d argue the fake put deaths are better under Moffat than RTD, Rose got absolutely ridiculous towards the end of her run.
Agreed. Rose's resurrections/reincarnations as a super-being were far more hokey.
@@ftumschk Rose had a single fake death with the transmat beam, and they had the good sense to not make it a massive spectacle. I'm not overly fond of how they handled Doomsday, but an ominous speech is not a fake death.
I guess you could count something like Dalek, but that lasted for a few seconds, just enough to give the Doctor a bit more character.
@@ozzyp97 the this is the story of how i died is even worse than any fake death tbh. just lying to the audience directly lol for no reason apart from a small line in the end of series 3.
@@dutchman8887 As I said it's not my favourite either, but why would you take the narration at face value? It's about building tension, it'd make no sense if they weren't planning on subverting it somehow.
Also the fake out is like the ponds situation we all knew they were leaving months before and the fake outs so helped us deal with the eventual deaths
Clara was chasing the Raven one way or another since Danny died. Sooner or later, it would chase her back.
I cried a lot the first time I saw this. Even cried a little still. But I love scene between the doctor and Clara at the end. You put it in the right words, it did justice for her character. Became a little too good of a Doctor for her own good
The next episode is the best of all time by itself but when you realise the context and all the little things it elevates it to the next level everything is perfect in it. Can’t wait for it
Rewatching Steven moffat era of Doctor Who I’ve notices how he like to tease the fate of characters. No matter what they did with the Clara character the actress killed each scene. I keep rewatching Clara scenes just for the performance. She was so good I didn’t realize the complaint people had against her.
OMG this episode :( Still, after all these years, it makes me cry :(
I don't understand why the line "you shouldn't have to ask" was contradicted. It's not about removing Clara's ability to decide for herself (or 'agency', as per the modern vernacular), it's about the Doctor's desire to protect without reward. Thing is, whose 'agency' do you retain in that situation - Clara's or the Doctor's? Unless you really think that scene was about a man telling a woman to do, in which case I really don't know what to say about that, frankly.
Next episode is my favorite of the season and the moment between the Doctor and Clara at the end is great, happy thanksgiving and enjoy the continual viewing
Yeah, next episode is one of the all time best Doctor Who episodes. Capaldi's performance is incredible!
The way Capaldi holds Clara's hand & just look at her right before the end, it breaks both of my hearts each time.
I suspect many would agree the next episode is one of the finest examples of contemporary science fiction committed to film. It speaks of the heart(s) of the Doctor more than almost any other story.
Hey, I love this reaction! I had a lot of similar thoughts and feelings when I first watched this episode too. I think it’s important to point out the toxicity in their relationship; it’s important to their characters and their stories at this point. I know toxic can be a strong word, but it doesn’t mean it is the wrong one, so I appreciate you guys touching on that subject while recognizing how that was explored in this episode.
Next few episodes... on a scale of 1 to 10, they are 11, 12 and 13. Perhaps in another order :)
But I can't wait.
One of them is a 1 for me.
@@cutthr0atjake I swear, if it’s the one I think it is...
Between Joivan Wade, Letitia Wright and Naomi Ackie, this retroactively became one of the most stacked casts in Doctor Who history.
Doctor Who - forge of talent.
Yeah, it's funny, I totally remembered Joivan being in it, as I pointed him out to my wife when we started 'Doom Patrol', but I'd TOTALLY forgotten about Letitia Wright being in it! Or Naomi Ackie!
Oh my goodness, you're here, you made it! For me, the next two episodes and especially the following Christmas special (!!!) is the zenith of rebooted Dr. Who, with the usual Moffat-y caveats. I don't necessarily think either of you will agree, but I'm super excited for you to watch nonetheless! They're my most re-watched, probably.
For me personally it is from this point on that Capaldi's run gets REALLY good.
No, she shouldn't have to ask someone to try to keep her safe. It's just kind.
OMG, I just realized the best episode is next "Heaven Sent"
Back when this first aired, when I got home after getting tormented with Yahoo mentions of "Jenna Coleman" and "Clara Oswald" all day I pulled this episode off of the DVR. And exactly halfway through the episode I paused it, dread in my heart, and walked to my brother on the porch of our house (he'd already seen it) and said, "Oh... no. She's being _clever_ ..."
There's not much more to say. This has been an interesting stretch since the last two episodes of Series 8, because I like Amy, I like Rory, and I _love_ Clara. Probably because of the timing of my very first episode which was "The Bells of St. John". (Though my first attempt at watching it? When Matt said "It's me, the Doctor!" and Jenna said "Doctor Who?" I rolled my eyes so hard I changed the channel. I had no idea that was a running gag :P ...) So that means that Matt Smith is my Doctor and Clara was actually my first companion, though I did make sure to watch any and all marathons of NuWho to catch up on the other episodes, which led me to rank the other previous companions from first to last Rory, Amy, Donna, Sarah Jane, Martha, Craig, The Next Doctor, Brian 'Pond', Christina from the Planet of the Dead... maybe some other people and then Rose (entirely because Billie Piper got seriously shafted by the writing in the second series. If we split Rose into 1st Series Rose and 2nd Series Rose 1st Series Rose jumps ahead of _Donna_ and 2nd Series Rose takes the L by a strong margin. #aside).
What was I saying? Oh, yes, the point is that it was rather difficult watching the reactions to the proceeding episodes after "Dark Water" for a bit. It really did feel like some of it was residual anger from the beginning of that episode for a while... but I will completely agree on one idea, that I feel like you guys expressed very well: the problem was the Danny storyline was just. Not. Well. Written. In your opinion and mine in retrospect. It had a great beginning to an Epic Love Story, and a great end, but it seriously was missing the _meat_ of the story. Episodes that could have been setting up how amazing their love was instead were spent breaking into banks and running off with Robin Hood. I feel like Moffat sometimes writes backwards, and sometimes... he skips part of the story.
Hadn't been so sad after an episode since Pertwee regenerated .
Big fan of 12 and Clara
Coincidentally I am wearing my 'let me be brave" t shirt lol 😆
Ohhhh almost there, my favorite 2 episodes of this season.. The next one being the best in my mind
Paula, you took it way better than I thought! Great acting here. Again. Love Capaldi´s Doctor, and I love Clara, this Clara, the "Doctor Wannabe".
Katrina, you did a DAMN good job of keeping a straight face through this, bravo.
As the Seventh Doctor once indicated, "I'm playing poker!"
Paula really does have some of the cutest response faces to watching Doctor Who...i love it
I am so glad that I was able to enjoy watching you guys go through this (especially Paula for the first time). I do understand the idea that you don't want to be fooled. I say it all the time, we as an audience love to be deceived but we don't like to be made a fool of. In that light I understand. I still have a very different perspective on the character of Clara than you two do BUT I was so afraid going into this episode (as I've been waiting for it for so long) I was so afraid of what might be said or quipped during some of these very intense scenes that could potentially spoiled the weight of them. But you did a wonderful job, I think, of allowing the moments to breath.
I left your Patreon and was a little heartbroken that had become necessary for me, but I have never stopped following the two of you and enjoying the content you create outside of Doctor Who and I want to make it clear, for as much as it matters, that my opinion of you both is that you're lovely people and that has never changed, never even wavered. I am glad I was able to enjoy this particular journey with you.
While I really like this episode, the next one is on a whole different level. Can’t wait.
The next episode, in my humble opinion, is the best Doctor Who episode of all time
It´s weird , but I love the face she does just before she leaves the Doctor and go outside to face the raven.
Just imagine, if that happened... I had flashbacks for the Moment...
Paula's being very wise in her caution considering the previous form.
Here we go!
One thing this wish was just slightly different, more in the overarching storyline with Me, is I think Clara should have been the one to use the device on Ashildr to bring her back to life; in an attempt to be more like the Doctor, only for there to be unforeseen consequences - which was her season arc. Making it more fitting that this is how it culminates.
thats what the episode needed a Poe quote or reference
"...did you ever hear anything about anyone who stopped me!?" Um, actually, yeah. But...not gonna say since it could give away a little of what happens after the next episode. The actors are usually great when they get to be serious and angry as The Doctor. This was no exception! As for Edgar Allen Poe, was more of a fan of "The Tell Tale Heart" than "The Raven."
Ooo and I just remembered the Christmas special that’s coming up ooooooooo
FINALLY some genuine emotional reaction. If you watch something like Blind Wave, you can't really get that. 😅
So I cherish the smaller channels, who do these.
And I love that they muted Clara's scream here. However: There is an EXCELLENT trailer, Katrin Depp did. She put in a scream again. I really hope, her content is still findable on this platform. It must have been one of her Doctor Who trailers, would highly recommend you to look them up. It was probably either "Darkness - Doctor Who" or "Silver Of Ice". My two favorites....
Edgar Allen Poe is more famous in America than other places. I've only heard of him because of The Simpsons.
I remember we studied "The Raven" at school in Wales around 1979-80 (God bless and RIP, Mr Evans). As I'd acquired a taste for gothic horror during the Hinchcliffe era of Doctor Who, the Poe anthology "Tales of Mystery and Imagination" was one of my favourite books at the time. I've still got it somewhere :)
He's an American Author, so that should be no surprise.
A really good one, though.
@@catwhowalksbyhimself Agreed. Likewise Hemingway, Salinger and Steinbeck.
If Dr Who ever does a Poe episode, I hope it's written by Maxine Alderton.
@@firefly24601 The Creature from the Pit & The Pendulum... Murders In The Rue Morbius ;)
Oh... Oh... we're here. Oh no...
The actor who plays Rigsy is in Doom Patrol.
Him doing the American accent threw me so it was a while before I realized that Cyborg was Riggsy
It was time for Clara to leave and in such a brutal choice The Doctor will pursue..
This one is good. The next one is great. Can't wait for next week.
The next episode is one of my favourites. I'm looking forward to your reactions and oppinions.
i still haven't been able to re-watch this episode properly, it broke me and i actually ended up not watching for about 3 months after this ep. i just couldn't handle it for some reason. i'll try and get through the full reaction but its a tough watch for me.
I never actualy believed Clara would be killed. I thought it was another fakeout, like faccing the raven (unlike the other people in the alley) would make the raven do something different. And then she actually drops dead in the street I'm like WTF??
Favorite episode ever.
I have just one thing to say..... The next episode! Lol 😄👍
Next is the best episode in television.
I love this episode, cause it is a great end to what Clara have become. She was big-headed, overly smart Doctor-esque companion that have bitten too much than she could swallow. I mean Doctor also had died in more reckless and stupid ways, so it definitely fits.
Katrina continues to be amazing at stright faceing nearly spolier topics, like in this intro hahaha
I like face the raven and Clara's death is quite good where has the Doctor gone? Who wants him and why? Questions, questions questions.
Another quality raven video!
It was a great goodbye scene!
My one and only issue with Clara's death was how in the episiodes before this one they made her extra reckless, so that a larger part of the blame would end on her. It felt a bit victim-blamy for me.
Can't wait for series 10
The line about this being a very small universe... remember that.
Nevermore...
Brilliant writing Part 1.
Please dont skip opening scene of heaven sent.
It should be an interesting viewing.
Happy Thanksgiving Day to all.
I’m fairly certain they’ve filmed atleast the finale, and I’m pretty certain we’re going to end another season with Paula very rightfully being annoyed at Moffat. One thing I can see her liking about Chibnall is that his death sticks for the most part
not rightfully at all. the finale is his best work. what deaths has chibnall even had to stick to? one episode character dont count because then moffat would have several.
@@dutchman8887 it’s a decent episode, but Clara is the problem with it. She has a send off already and it’s perfect. Not all deaths need to be grandiose and her getting overconfident leading to her dying is tragic. She was too much like the Doctor and it cost her just like Donna, except like she says this was her fault.
Hellbent seems to reward Clara by making her functionally immortal and giving her agency in time and space with her own TARDIS. Sure she has to return to her death but she goes the “long way round.”
As for Chibnall, he has had a few but I’m wanting to avoid spoiling anything if comments are looked at so I won’t talk on them
@@dutchman8887 its insane to me that you say "not rightfully at all" this is a reaction channel. However Paula or I end up reacting to something is just fine. We may have different opinions or different responses to how other people watch this because ... That's how reactions work. That's how being human works. We're going to have difference in opinion on things and that doesn't immediately make either one of us right or wrong.
looking forward to the next one :)
I never understand why they made her fall to the ground, instead of that the Doctor catches her at the last moment. Strange..
Paula - your reaction here, about them playing chicken with death too many times, and about how this was a perfect ending for Clara .... Since you've already seen it, this is why Hell Bent is my least favorite episode of Doctor Who.
I don't think there were that many fakeouts for clara's death. Not as much as the ponds ( especially Rory)
So the way information about upcoming episodes was given to fans as the show airs, if you're following the news then you know which episode is going to be the departure of a companion and which episode will be the departure of an incarnation of the doctor. On the whole knowing this information isnt spoilery and actually puts certain parts of these episodes in a different context that allows you to realize when things are real. Like the episode when amy and rory left, you two took that as moffatt being a dick about playing with will they or wont they die when it was really playing with how they leave the show because moffatt wrote the episode knowing that the viewers would know this was amy and rory's last one. With face the raven, fans knew this death scene was real because we were aware of ienna coleman departing before the episode came out so knowing that information allowed fans to allow themselves to get swept away. The reason that clara has been faked out so many times is because jenna coleman had a bad habit of waiting until the last minute to renew her contracts with the show. The last christmas special was originally supposed to be clara's last appearance but jenna made the decision to stay so last minute that moffatt had to rewrite the ending to allow clara to remain with the doctor. Just remember that sometimes the writing has to accomodate wonky scheduling and its not the writing's fault so much as it is contract negotiations in the real world that effect the characters.
Been looking forward to this
Yous never did the end credit scene at end
We did!
@@KatAlysha oh it was not on YT then, unless it was the wee clip at the very end, then my bad 😛
No stakes / false stakes - the curse of Moffat. So many fakeouts and dumb twists, takes great moments and dulls them.
Still a great episode..and about to go into a top 10 one in my humble.
I feel like Paula is not going to like episode 12
Do one of you sing the theme song?
When will you be back together
It's felt like a life time waiting for this Episode. Thank GOD the egotist is gone and we NEVER see her again. About time to. Sophie makes a much better companion.
I hate this episode... The risk-taking Clara wasn't consistent, hasn't been a part of the character ever, though would have made sense after Danny died IF she'd been taking the repeatedly big risks as she did hanging out of the TARDIS. Not even the episode immediately preceding this one. It just felt so inconsistent, granted that fact was on par, which pulls me out of the episode.
This could have been a great ending if it weren't for just 1 aspect.
If this had actually been Clara’s exit it would have brilliant
Spoiler that shit
Ha they’ll have watched it ages ago by now
it wouldve been ok but not really fitting for the story that was being told or the spirit of the show.
@@joer3720 the episode they've said they'll be watching on December 9th, 13 days AFTER your comment? No. No, they probably won't.
Seriously you blame Ashildr. You blame one person for another actions.
And thats the last of the good companions.... #sad