Creating a Pantheon: Gods & Goddesses in 5e Dungeons and Dragons and TTRPG - Web DM
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ส.ค. 2018
- Hot Take: Most pantheons in ttrpg aren''t very original or connected to their settings! Here is how we try to think in new ways about the old Gods and Goddesses, and how we write lore that really fits four settings. Don't forget to subscribe, comment & share. New episodes every Wednesday.
Web DM Podcast - bit.ly/2g49sUV
Check us out on Facebook - bit.ly/2oGKLOg
Twitter - / webdmshow
Instagram - web_dm
Jim & Pruitt on Save or Dice: bit.ly/2wnZOAv
Written & Hosted by Jonathan Pruitt & Jim Davis
Produced, Directed & Edited by Travis Boles
Complete 5e Classes Playlist: bit.ly/2oGuhG1
Unearthed Arcana LIVE episodes playlist: bit.ly/2oQOlYu
New to 5th Edition D&D? Check out this playlist - bit.ly/2pbZN1K
Music by
John Branch -branchoutguitar.com
Web DM Theme by
Kyle Newmaster - kylenewmaster.com
Motion Graphics & Logo Design by
Ryan Wieber - ryan-w.com
WebDM Fan Art by Adam Miller - www.adammillerart.net
Intro To 5th Edition - • 5th Edition Dungeons &...
Backgrounds, Feats & Spellcasters - • Backgrounds, Feats & S...
Inside Editions - • Inside Editions - Web DM
Getting Started in 5th Edition - • Getting Started In 5th...
Character Creation Part One - • Character Creation Par...
Character Creation Part Two - • Character Creation Par...
Campaigning “On Rails” - • Is Your D&D Campaign "...
Treasure - • Treasure: How Much Is ...
Player Styles - • Different Player Style...
Killing Characters - • Killing Characters Res...
Barbarians & Bards - • Barbarians & Bards - W...
Druids,Fighters, Monks, Rangers & Rogues - • Druids, Fighters, Monk...
Sorcerers, Warlocks, Clerics, Paladins & Wizards - • Sorcerers, Warlocks, C...
Beholders - • Beholders - A Classic ...
Kobolds, Goblins & Bullywugs - • Zombies in 5e Dungeons...
Red Dragons - • Red Dragons in Dungeon...
5e Dungeons & Dragons is here to stay, and Web DM is here to help!!! Jim Davis & Jonathan Pruitt have been playing Dungeons & Dragons for a combined 30+ years, and on Web DM they demystify, dethrone, and defrock this Dungeon we call Dragons! Subscribe to our channel for weekly videos on 5e Classes, Monsters, DM Tips, and more! Join Pruitt & Jim as we kick down the door and talk some serious Dungeons & Dragons! - เกม
![[UNCUT] ลูกหมี-ลิลลี่ เหงียน เปิดใจฟาด ปู มัณฑนา I คนดังนั่งเคลียร์ I 15 ก.ค.67](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/FKQ60Y7bJ6s/mqdefault.jpg)
Thanks for watching! Want more Web DM in your life? Check out our Patreon for an extra weekly video and podcast and more! Patreon.com/webdm
Or our Twitch channel for live streamed ttrpgs every Tuesday and Thursday! Twitch.tv/webdm
Or our live play archive on TH-cam: TH-cam.com/webdmplays
Great episode as always! As a side note, the idea that "faith" is defined as "belief in a thing for which one has no evidence" is a rather recent re-defining of the word. The original definition is something closer to confidence/conviction in a belief. Some close to how it was described in the middle of the video after bringing up the context of "the gods are actual/provable". As an example of this, a Scientist has faith in the practice of science as beneficial to humanity, and points to good works and inventions to support that confidence. A religious person also has faith that the practice of religion is beneficial to humanity, and points to good works and natural beauty to support that confidence. They both believe that the thing they have faith in could only produce those goods if they absolutely got people closer to the truth.
The first campaign I ran, a Wu Xia style power rangers type thing with everyone playing monks, I made these competing faiths my main story. The players represented the good works that could be done by the use of magic. As they traveled, they were exposed to the bad works that magic brings to the world (cursed items and necromancy). There was also an NPC in the story that accomplished milestones on a timetable relative to the players. He was a failed monk from their village, but a prolific engineer. He represented the good that could come from the use of material science, but the party would always encounter someone abusing the power of that technology (knowingly or not). Example: Over-fishing by an invasive Sahuagin village causing a native, lesser developed Troglodyte culture to starve near extinction. [I even got one of the players to encourage this NPC onto this path in the prequel session].
At the end of the story, this NPC eventually became the main villain with the goal of separating the material plane from the planar system (by severing a homebrewed "Ki - Plane", like if the astral plan existed literally inside everything in the material plane.) So the party had to decide based on what they experienced if it would be best to sever faith in magic (which was their own strength) or sever faith in science (by destroying their friend's dream). Or maybe find a solution that I didn't plan.
Not sure what this video was getting at but good talk. There was a lot of what not to do but not a lot of words of how to make unque ones
A trick : watch movies on flixzone. Me and my gf have been using it for watching a lot of movies lately.
@Jack Brian yea, been using flixzone} for months myself =)
Concept: There isn't one, but three gods of love and the first one stands for romantic love, the second for platonic love and the third for familial love and the three of them are constantly squabbling over who's most important and who came first.
And this trinity of love deities shall be called the Love Triangle™
I'm gonna go ahead and 'borrow' this for my next game...
Stealing this
I actually created a pantheon that had a love goddess that was very similar to this! The idea is that every God is "two faced," with them representing the two primary aspects of their domain. Do the love goddess is comprised of two faces: Sexual Love, and Unconditional Love. So the priests/priestesses of the former half are known as "Seed Sewers," and are basically fertility gurus, helping couples who have struggle conceiving have children. The other priests/priestesses run charities, help the needy, etc. I thought it was a really cool concept, and I wish I worked on it more.
I'm sorry are you an ancient Greek? Plato is that you?
Heavy stealing this, badass concept and thanks for the idea
One thing I find really cool for religion in fantasy settings is the old Japanese folk belief that things that are old enough will eventually sort of develop a spirit or sentience of their own over time. I think it translates really well to a fantasy game, where you can have thousand year old swords that have seen countless battles and have gained a sort of sentience from that.
I've leggit been using that idea for a campaign design. The entity has to live many, many times beyond it's natural lifespan to achieve celestial ranking.
The sword idea reminds me of the Soul Edge from the Soul Calibur series of games, where it was originally just a sword, but over time, after being bathed in the blood and hatred of thousands of battles and owners, it gained it's own sentience.
Deltarune by Toby Fox plays off this but with everyday items instead of artifacts
*gets to ending of video*
"God creates dinosaurs, God destroys dinosaurs.
God creates man, Man destroys God.
Man creates dinosaurs..."
*Jurassic Park theme starts playing*
Flamboyant Warlock dinosaurs destroy man*
Dinosaurs... eat man. Woman inherits the earth.
@@flamboyantwarlock7101 Man creates robots, robots destroy man is a good way to continue.
@@Meteor2022 If Greek mythology is to be believed: Oranos creates the titan's, titan's kill Oranos and creates the god's, gods kill the titans and create humanity...
...Woman inherits the earth.
The opening "pantheon" joke is the worst...and exactly why I love the channel.
I heard that as "we put out panties on" etc.... lol
that was like an 6th or 7th level Dad Joke. just brutal!
That honestly might be the best worst joke yet from Pruitt.
I love the Exalted "pantheon." Leads to some great god stories: "This god was the god of walrus mating fights but he got a promotion and is now the war god of the south. You too can become a better god if you work hard and lift yourself up by your bootstraps"
"It's been a long time since I read the epic of gilgamesh" that alone says so much
When creating a relgion it should answer at least one or more of these questions:
Where did we come from?
How should we treat others?
What happens after death?
Those are good guidelines. These guidelines are abstract and introduce thought and creativity.
So much thanks for the guideline, sounds pretty nice uwu
It might be interesting to add something like the Campus Martius from ancient Rome. One of the things the Romans were famous for was their belief that all gods were equally real. In order to avoid divine punishment (or ira deorum), whenever the Romans showed up somewhere, they would start worshiping the local gods, and bring back that worship to Rome. That way, the gods were always venerated, and Rome didn't become a target for angry gods deprived of followers. Be interesting to see that applied in a fantastic sense.
*Session 1* Party arrives in the capital city, literally hundreds of temples to gods from various conquered lands, each with their own unique cults, each cult providing an essential service to the city such as burials, tending to the farm lands, acting as mid wives, ect. Yet all the while each cult are battling for the soul of the city, many are involved in secret plans and plots to take the soul of the city.
tbh...that sounds pretty sick.
Thanks, Wesley Anderson! Another take would be that the Roman-analogue shows up outside your city's lands, starts worshiping your own gods, and then turns that divine magic against your city. I feel like this would work best with very fickle gods, or just gods that plain don't care about mortals. :)
Not true one bit. Romans simply plastered their religion on the people they conquered. The local’s god of war would become Mars, for example. They attempted the eradication of the local’s culture. This is why when Christianity (a religion that found first solid footing in Rome) started rising, the priests completely ripped out and demonized the before Christ pagan rituals and practice (it came with the Roman culture of destroying the old to help coerce the local populace to give tribute to the conquerer).
@@heathenpride7931 as long as you paid taxes you could venerate whatever you wanted under the Roman rule. Total freedom of religion (with the only caveat you had to accept the cult of the emperor in the latest stages). Christianity on the other hand refused to recognize other people's faith as valid. Hence the clash.
Heathen Pride
You misunderstand, the Roman’s plastering their religion on everything BECAUSE they believed all gods were equally real.
I always like the idea of the god of darkness being the upstanding keep-you-safe-from-monsters deity, primarily because it screws with edgelords XD
The Prince of the long night, who dwells far to the north in the land where in winter the sun vanishes for months and who keeps the people safe until light returns, and when it does he emerges reborn a god of light; the king of midnight sun.
So if batman was a god.
@@DaDunge This 💖
Makes me think of nyx from the game Hades
I was writing a story where my Goddess of Shadow wears black and is into kinky shit like BDSM...however, she was known as the Goddess of Solitude because she spends most of her existence alone and isolated. Her followers perform sexual acts and bond in honor of her sacrifice of isolation. She is seen as an evil Goddess through everyone's eyes since she created Dark magic but in her eyes the twin gods of the sun and moon are war mongering psychos. I gave her a line to a hero that was born of darkness that refused her gifts that read
"You see darkness and shadow as the evil of this world...darkness was here before all else and darkness shades you from the heat of war. Darkness spares you the blind eye. Your shadow will forever follow you where light cannot."
The first 2 minutes in and already learned more about pantheons than I have researching them myself.
?
"We put our Pantheon one god at a time" LOL!
A lot of what makes a Pantheon great is how you handle it, if anyone wants inspiration play some King of Dragon Pass. The Gods are as generic as they can be (albeit with their own mythology), but the interactions between the gods and people make them interesting. For example the Goddess of Disease is somewhat evil (kind of), but when there is a disease that is the god who gets tribute. The goddess of Harvest asks that all her sons and daughters get attention (Meaning, she likes all seeds). The best part is that a lot of the gods explain natural phenomena: Diversifying your crops protects you from blights.
My personal approach has always been to have each culture or people to have their own religious system like our own world. So, the humans may have a pantheon, but the dragonborn are strongly Monotheistic with Tiamat being a satan figure. The elves dont believe in gods instead thinking they are just strong beings. And the dwarves are more ancestral worshipping, etc. That way, it feels more real and different from the standard “every race has a pantheon”
The gods of my campaign are retired adventurers of previous campaigns who achieved that status through their actions. In my present campaign, the players are just now realizing they are on the same road, and how some of their former characters might be the saints and demigods they have known.
That's a great way to do it, I imagine it would really help flesh out and give the gods a tangable and understandable story
oh im stealing that, especially since to begin with there are no gods in my setting, the players retired characters could be the foundation of my pantheons, thats awesome :D
I noted what weapons they preferred, what single "concept" they seemed to espouse, and the symbol of their heraldry as the hallmark of their followers. When a band of mercenaries start wielding a flaming sword as their symbol and using the heroic tales and names of the party as their warcry, the party starts to sit up and take notice. =)
Vogelkinder i love that
@@Vogelkinder Sounds like what I want to do for my own world! My big difference is that a few of the "ascended gods" instead choose to take their new powers and continue adventurers as planar travelers that interact on an interplanar level.
The idea is that players with an epic PC that is reluctant to become an actual god can instead choose to keep adventuring. It would also allow for some tier 5 20+ level adventurers as players can cherry pick their most epic characters across campaigns for ridiculous power 1 shots and the like
i find myself often gravitating towards animism in my games. I like the idea that there are deities/spirits of all sorts of things, from the small and mundane to the big cosmic stuff. "gods" is just a handy term to use
The Elder Scrolls franchise along with the True Villains web comic are my two favorite designs of gods and pantheons.
The Elder scrolls is rich with multi layers and esoteric godhoods, mythology and religion that I only understand the basics of... Which I am ok with because 99% of the people in that world only understand the basics of the gods and etc too.
While True Villains has a infinite number of gods (Their is a god of Grass, Tall Grass, Wild Grass, Dry Grass, Grass roots etc) but only a dozen gods hold true power because only they have enough worshipers powering them. Also all the gods in that world are Neutral beings that do not care if their power is being used for good or evil so long as their aspect is being met.
Sigh, I guess my homebrew pantheon of 28 can go into a dumpster.
Well not really, but I did realize when I was making it for my setting that nobody is going to care about all of them if they were just "god of blank." So when i created the pantheon i gave each god 5 ties to other gods. So all their relationships gradually formed in a pseudo organic manner so I feel like any player who asks doesn't get lore dumped, but might be genuinely curious why followers of the goddess of labor and agriculture hate her brother the god of music and art
That sounds pretty damn good, no need to dump it
That's a great idea. I might have to look at that since my pantheon is still in its infancy (one campaign with very few established).
That actually sounds like a well thought out arrangement. If it’s working for you, keep it!
Relationships help, but there is more to pantheons than that. In any artistic field throwing out your concepts can often make the next take much better.
Hobestly 28 seems like a lot unless religion is central to your campaign. Might indeed lead to lore-overload if not handled gradually
I love this channel. I've been binge watching it for the past 2 weeks.
My homebrew world only has 2 gods, 1 goddess, and 1 ultimate being
Good, evil, neutral, and RNG
Nice, I like it when a setting has an amount of gods that one can count with a hand. They are therefore much more meaningful and influential to the population and their daily life.
What is your creation myth for those four?
@@sikuku5957 fairly simple. The ultimate beign, called RNGesus has always existed, creator of everything. The other gods were created to keep a "balance."
That's terrible, haha
RNGesus is in your campaign too?!
@@joshschroeder4582 what's terrible?
Oh wow. I have been agonizing over how to put a monotheism into a d and d campaign for years, and you resolved it by the 7 minute mark. Of course, the valor!
In my campaigns, I really don't flesh out the details of what deities exist/don't exist unless they are an important part to the player's quest or relevant to the current storyline. For instance, in my current game, our Dwarven Cleric wanted to follow Thor... so I put Thor (along with Moradin) in our world. As needs for other deities arise, I'll add them down the line. It makes it easy for me so that I don't have to create a pantheon or decide what deities exist in our fantasy world right away. I can be flexible and insert any deity I need at any given moment, should the situation arise.
My prefered pantheon, especially in an edition that has downplayed the game effect of the alignments, is just Nine gods - one for each of the alignments. That way the alignments become philosophies or ways of life personified by a deity and propagated by their priesthoods.
I grew up on the movie Clash of the Titans. I’ve gotten so many good inspirations from there. Not necessarily using the Greek pantheon, but concepts like releasing a kraken to destroy towns that displeased the gods, and gods who curse mortals.. making hideous monsters out of them, physically and mentally.
I was just thinking about this exact idea for a Homebrew I've been working on.
Y'all keep outdoing yourselves with the puns
Kota Hitt It’s a Pundamic
The lack of allignment focus in 5e makes it difficult to make allignment-based dieties. I love the city-state concept. Dieties can have more than one domain and clerics, paladins, even pact-warlocks, and sorcerers connected with the one diety.
After watching this episode I thought about creating 3 gods, one allmighty but unconscious one and two conscious ones who are against each other, here is what I came up with.
At the beginning there was Ao, the ultimate existence in the outer realms, its powers eyed by the beholders. Nobody knows how the Beholders did it, but it is said, by combining their intellect, they were able to trick Ao and strip it of its consciousness. The process was extremely violent, space was separated from the outer realms and filled with Ao's colorful energies, the beholders were banished, for now.
Ao's consciousness became Des, the god of destiny, design and descendancy.
Ao's subconsciousness became Cha, godess of chance, chaos and change.
They vied with each other, both thought of themselves as superior.
A game with dice should decide on who shall merge with all that was Ao and become whole again.
There were many defeats and many fruitless victories, but there was no resolution.
Cha and Des became tired of dice, so they created pawns and a board to place them on.
From the energies of Ao, they created the crystal spheres and the many worlds and tribes therein.
These pawns adventure, they find treasure and glory or loss and contempt,
build kingdoms and civilizations or raze them to the ground.
And ultimately... they all die.
In time Cha and Des came to love their champions and their doings.
Be aware though, because sometimes the dice still fall against us,
as we face challenges greater than ourselves or attempt deeds beyond our means.
In the end, chance decides our fates at the branches of destiny.
-7th Revelation of the Phlogiston Prophet Sikuku
Heavily inspired by the spelljammer video of Pruitt and the creation myth in the manga Goblin Slayer.
In play I would probably homebrew three faith classes in which the player may progress gaining minor/major gameplay or narrative benefits (depending if they dig it or not)
Progress is depending on, whether the players take actions according to the deity he or she believes in (lawful/design=Des, neutral=Ao, chaotic/chance=Cha , player may change faith but starts from zero).
All divine domains, which are neither Chance nor Destiny, would be aspects of Ao. In play represented as local gods the local people believe in, or even nature itself. But only clerics, paladins and druids of Chance or Destiny can feel a conscious entity connecting with them, when casting spells or using skills. That gives the characters of the players knowledge of Cha and Des at least, even if the player characters do not come across the 7th revelation of the Phlogiston Prophet.
To build a pantheon that will be more meaningful to the players, and that only needs bare-bones to begin (honestly, nothing much more than a symbol), try this. It's rooted in an astrological idea - have the gods be experienced as constellations, divine patterns that exist in the heavens that manifest in the lives of those born under their sign. Firstly, you give yourself room once your campaign takes off to either make them actual living beings, or keep them as abstract concepts. But the way this is more immediate to the players, to borrow a little from Elder Scrolls, is you ask your player what sign they were born under, and retroactively flesh out what that means based on how they play their character. So that aspects of who they are become aspects of those under the influence of that sign/god. A nice bonus of this, too, is that you can manage to make your 'gods' matter to players who aren't just playing divine classes - which makes them feel more real, and less like an obligation for those mechanics' sake.
My gods. That intro pun. Pruitt you clever bastard. I salute you.
I like the idea of divine epithets which was worshipping gods in different capacities largely based on where you were. Aphrodite had a divine epithet of Area who was worshipped as a war goddess in Sparta.
I started to develop my pantheon today, and this was super helpful! I was writing something along the lines of one of your suggestions (with two "central" gods and the other gods kind of having ties to them), and this vid really helped me fine tune it.
Making the monsters the offspring of gods would work great for low-mid magic campaigns, but I can’t help but feel it’d muddy the waters for high magic campaigns where parties can go slaughter camps of goblins on a whim. Like, if my DM told me goblins were offspring of a god, I wouldn’t take the first quest to go kill some in fear of divine punishment. If that was the case, would it be more player-friendly to say that, perhaps these 4-5 immortal goblins are the offspring of deities, and the rest are further along down the bloodline? Because that way killing those immortal, important goblins would bring repercussions without fearing the mooks?
Goblins, to continue with your example, need not be just the children of some god(s). They can be the result of a myth: spawned from the blood of an injured god during a primordial battle, punished mortals for some crime, or even creations rather than birthed children. In this way, the god can be excused of not caring about the resulting race spawn (especially in the case of an evil god), or only intervene when there is intentional genocide of his/her spawn (think Holocaust level).
Gage M. In such a world monster races would slaugher eachother all the time, so why would their god "parents" care if a small nest of goblins die, when a whole goblin mountain is being slaughered by an orc horde that wants to take the mountain
I was more referring to higher level players (or very crafty low level players) who would be able to clear that whole goblin mountain. Or if a party happened to kill some particularly "important" nest of goblins. Besides that, the gods may see their children attacking each other as a good thing, training and strengthening their children as a whole; and viewing humanoid intervention as something entirely different and against their plans for their children.
Regardless, this is less about what a DM would actually allow to happen in the game and more to assuage any fears of retribution the players might have about killing mooks, because using this system they are and will always be open to retribution by the parent gods. And more likely than not they will kill some important monster somewhere along the way. By adding this degree of separation early in the game, it gives an explanation to players as to why the parent gods are angry they killed 1 dragon and not 75 goblins.
@@OkamiG15 because there's 100-10000000 times more goblins than dragons? Ants compared to pandas?
@@OkamiG15 you can always make them offspring of offspring. You can make goblins corruptions of current or previous children/creations. I have a world where goblins were just corrupted versions of gnomes, like how Tolkien orcs may be corrupt forms of elf.
If your players are scared of retribution from ever present Gods, you could always nudge them to ask clerics, old adventurers, or sages on the matter and hash it out as a meta-in universe conversation.
I can tell you are very learned in ancient history, Jim. Great video guys
Good God!, this might be your best ever yet, I'm gonna re-watch as it's very topical for the second-half of the campaign I'm currently DMing.
Many Gods in D&D were once human like Vecna, Bane, Tyr, Torm etc. Having gods that were once humanoid are tempting and interesting to write, and can give the players pc's motivation for a long, long term goal.
Y'all read my mind, this is the exact video I needed from Web DM right now for my campaign.
Amazing advice. Me being an agnostic in real life... This is a very interesting discussion to me. Well said as well.
I think Godsfall handles gods well, particularly because they're directly involved in the story of the setting itself. The relationships between each of them is well explained and the impact of their apocalyptic war has resounding implications for the cultures in the part of the world where civilization survived.
Every other minute in this video, I just want to shout "Eberron!" "Silver Flame!"
Thanks so much for this, dudes. I'm totally rethinking divine interactions and presence now. Super helpful suggestions
Great vid. I'm surprised that you guys didn't mention the example of the Glorantha setting and/or the way that Runequest works religion into adventuring. Jim, thank you for demonstrating how historical knowledge can really boost our gaming. Whoda thunk that knowing something about real people and societies could help us with our imaginary people/societies?
Just want to say - I am a new DM, started playing a couple months ago (A 25 year old getting into the basis of games , fell in love with DnD).
And I must say, you guys have helped me out SO MUCH, along with Absolute Tabletop. But for real, if I ever think "How could my story handle x", I know you guys probably have a video on it already !
I've always felt that, like you mentioned in the video, animism makes so much sense in a fantasy setting like D&D.
I've been waiting to make a pantheon for a while so now I can! Thanks 😁👍
I've got a god of remembrance
He forms no long term memories of his own, but instead gains those of everyone who've died.
He serves as both the god of Knowledge and the god of the Dead.
That’s a cool idea
omg. u published this video yesterday and it is exactly what i was searching for! how fortuitous!
The pantheon In my homebrew is based on the main super Mario characters but with the names of famous generals I.E. Marius is the God of fire and Law
But is there a psychowaluigius?
Way back in my first game I ran for my sibs I based my pantheon on the Justice League and my youngest sister wound up playing a cleric of Wonder Woman.
This is by far the greatest pantheon ever
@@sluggardly justice league was based of the Greek Pantheon so you sister was kinda a cleric of Athena ( Sups is Zeus, the bat is Hades, flash is Hermes, Aquaman is Poseidon, cyborg is Hephaestus. So on so forth)
>Stirner Avatar
>Having gods at all
You done got spooked, son.
You two are so good together with the casual ping pong style. Good job.
In the medieval period, a good analogue for a pantheon of gods would be saints. Saints were more specialized and had their own areas of specialty - someone might have a Saint Peter medal if they live by fishing, or go to a shrine of St Peter, and so on. Many of the Catholic saints were local or tribal demigods that got absorbed and co-opted into the Christian faith, and then got exported - the Loa of Voudoun got mixed and sometimes hidden under the guise of Catholic saints.
That's not entirely correct. The Catholic Faith has a certain amount of requirements for a figure to be inducted as a Saint (such as, for example, the Saint had to actually be Catholic first, or have a great role in the founding of Christendom.) They didn't introduce new Saints on a whim. You would be thinking of ancient folk such as Rome, where they would conquer their target and incorporate new deities into their ever-expanding pantheon.
In the past the Catholic Church didn't have a tight rein on who was considered a Saint. Until the the end of the 10th century a Saint was someone venerated in a locality and then recognized by the local bishop.
This is true. Again, however, the Church didn't incorporate tribal people demigods of mythology; there are a finite amount of cases of this happening (mainly when the Church evangelized other people, who misunderstood the Faith and combined their faith with the Catholic Faith), but the established Church did not, as a whole accept demigods into the Faith. For example, just because Rome and Greece were given the Gospel in the early days of the Church (back when it was still called "The Way"), does not mean that Catholics immediately adopted the demigods of Greece, such as Heracles, into their religion. The best case where I think something similar may have happened was when the Goths were introduced to Catholicism, who for a long time venerated both shamanistic deities and the One True God.
Jim was super harsh this video, I loved it!
Jim's expertise + a nat 20= god-tier episode!
I kinda have a pantheon in my most recent DnD campaign.
There is two major forces one just represent Goodness, kindness and compassion and then the other represents selfishness, callousness and apathy.
The creatures of the world have dubbed these two forces light and darkness but they are pretty much just those concepts manifest and the 'gods' are the chosen few which become avatars of these forces and ascend to something akin to godhood.
I enjoyed this viceo. I may need to rewatch this later. A lot of good points brought up.
The Book of the Righteous by Green Ronin has a really fantastic, well thought-out pantheon. It has tons of legends, relationships between deities, holidays, prayers, ect. They even updated it a couple years back for 5e. I definitely recommend giving it a look, I'll be using it for my next game.
Glad somebody brought this up. I have the original version, but also backed the 5e update. Really well tied in, you can use parts or all. I'd love to see a 5e update of the Book of Fiends, as that ties in nicely too. Leaves enough room for customizing, but the base framework is exceptional.
The approach I took for one of the religions in my setting is sort of language based. I took the idea from how in French potatoes literally mean ground apples. So their core belief is since that people interpret things differently, divine beings are seen differently depending on the culture and language of a particular group. So two different peoples look at particular power and one may see a caring mother, and the other may see a shepherd, but the underlying power is the same.
Love you guys' content, keep it up!
Cheers!
I could watch this channel all day!
I both did and didn't build my own pantheon for my home game. I took a bunch of pre-existing gods and tweaked them in certain ways, like the fact that *all* deities in the setting are ascended mortals so they have less overall power than the gods you might see in Forgotten Realms or Critical Role, but conversely this means they have greater capacity to interfere directly in the affairs of the material plane. I found that to be an interesting perspective to take; the gods were all mortal and still have an almost personal stake in the events of the world they never really left behind.
This is the best thumbnail I've ever seen for WebDM XD
I can't thank you guys enough for this video.
Good timing this is exactly what I'm stuck on right now thanks guys
One idea I came up with was for a goddess of monsters (let's call her Echidna). Echidna is worshiped by monstrous races. But she's not really Evil, but rather Chaotic Neutral. She doesn't advocate followers go out and make trouble for trouble's sake. She just wants creatures to go forth, multiply, and be true to their natures, passions, and inclinations. Let a monster be a monster because that's what it is.
She's also a goddess of fertility and evolution. Of fecundity and change. She birthed countless monsters, and encourages creatures to do the same. To breed, and allow the natural process of adaptation and mutation take hold. In a more abstract sense, this also means she wants followers to promote life and be flexible, adapting to the shifting situations. "Birth the change you want to see in the world" is her adage.
Echidna also is a patron of mothers and oppressed women. If I were running a game with Echidna in it, it wouldn't just be monsters who prayed to her. Plenty of women in terrible situations, or who desire to better their lives, do so too. As do those whose children are born deformed or in some way unusual, in the hopes that Echidna will bless those children with the ability to succeed in spite - or _because_ - of the qualities that disable, afflict, or set them apart. For a medieval-esque setting, a very important blessing, when being born lame or neuro-atypical could heavily affect the ability to contribute, survive, or be accepted by superstitious peasants.
Worshipers of Echidna preach that all progeny are of value. All are important, and should be allowed to live. Wandering Echidna cultists could be on the lookout for peasants whose children have such unusual qualities, and quietly convert them and their families to Echidna worship.
@TheTavoZX yes
So you mean Echidna, the Greek Goddess of monsters.
Yes, I do. In a sort of detached from its original context sort of way, obviously. Much like how the PHB (or was it the DMG?) has a section on gods, and presents four Real World pantheons as options, though described in a manner devorced from its Real World history (so players and DMs can slot them into any setting).
Reminds me a bit of the Black Goat from the Lovecraftian gods
omg the galactus thumbnail
Guys, thank you very much for making this video. I too have been tired of how lacklustre and non-immersive most fantasy pantheons are. Because of this, I've created a total of 5 pantheons for my Rolemaster world. I hope mine can help inspire others to improve their own settings as well.
One is the stereotypical 9 alignment deity build; another is a group of elemental deities contrasted with a void deity; another is a combination of Greek, Norse, and Chinese inspirations in which a group of mortals ascended to godhood; another is an Eastern Asian themed chromatic/metallic paired Dragon pantheon; and the last is a reworked version of Tolkien's Illuvitar centered around music with the evil/enemy deity being an agent of discordance.
I feel very called out by that first 3 minutes. lol Thank you fine gentlemen for discussing thoughts I have had but didnt know how to explain or lay out.
It's exciting as a dm the ways you can make the cleric of the team feel special when he channels his divinity or cast certain spells if you put some time into the pantheon. A cleric player in my campaign worships Apollo and casts spirit guardians. Dolphins are a symbol of Apollo so a bunch of flaming, squicking dolphins attack the monsters. Lots of laughs. Sometimes I take a little control and explain to that player the rage and indignation he feels when facing undead which guides him to be a little more reckless. Having a grip on your pantheon can make the game fun for just single encounters without having to delve deep into how those God's effect the whole world. It's definitely worth at least some basic consideration for every game. Good video too guys, love the puns and content.
Love your videos, going to my first game in a month!
Loved the video. The pantheon for my humans, among a select few others , are actually refugee gods from a universe spanning war between the planes. They lost their worlds, so banded together and came as saviors to the humans. But at the same time, there are regular gods as well as a few ascended beings .
there can also be squabbles among gods and they may use mortals to settle their disputes in some way or another
I’d like to add another possibility to the list of things-other-than-a-fantasy-pantheon that you guys had at the beginning: Worship of a heavenly superperson like Egyptian Pharaohs or Mexica Revered Speakers or Japanese Emperors. I bet there could be something fun there.
I'm going throught the process of creating my own world and BOI !! I'm so happy you relieved me on my "but....can i do thaaat ??"
When i look at Jim's beard and see the perfectly placed white patches I imagine that he is Santa Claus enjoying my milk and cookies just after he has gifted me with awesome D&D knowledge. This image pleases me.
Man... have a time a dont see a content with so much fucking value like this! COngratulations and thanks!
Another thing to consider is whether gods are static, or can their personalities and what they stand for change over time? For instance, one of the goddesses of the primary human pantheon in a world I'm developing was responsible for providing rain to farming settlements in ancient times. When war broke out between the elves, humans, and their respective gods, this goddess was assaulted and raped by the god who taught elves subjugation, then imprisoned with the rest of the major human gods. When she and her kin were set free during this world's version of the Bronze Age, she turned her fury into intense downpours that trapped the armies of elvenkind in mud and winds that scattered their arrows. She was quickly hailed as a mighty liberator, and would eventually exact a brutal revenge. Many centuries after being freed, she found her violator in the form of a giant hawk, swooping down to save an elven army from certain defeat. With a great tornado, she tore him from the sky and slammed him into a jagged rock formation, then unleashed her purest rage in the form of this world's first lightning, viciously electrocuting him to death. Still a goddess of the weather, but instead of being a farming deity, she now stands for retribution and the overthrow of tyrants.
You got me to yell at my phone, "woman inherits the earth." Good one.
I like the Gods of the Dawn Pantheon from 4th edition. There was a sense of a creation myth and interactions between deities that went beyond the "group of monotheistic gods." I would also recommend GURPS Religion, which is a great, largely non-system dependent resource for building religions.
Also, the Bronze Age is a severely underrated period for gaming. Look at the Bronze Age Collapse and you have a perfect setting for a post-apocalyptic game.
That intro...
*heaves into sick bag*
*adds video to favourites*
Well if you remember an early Dungeons & Dragons they actually had Earth God Pantheon's that at least partially got transplanted to The Dungeons & Dragons rounds because of some ancient war because some of their followers were brought there to
Great work
Nice Jurassic park reference :) Pruitt going full Goldblum again love it
I love making different septs of the same D&D gods. Like I made a monster hunting sept of Pelor that focused on vampires. They were to eventually radicalized and started purifying villages by releasing vampire spawn and casting sunlight.
Love you guys!!!
I'm remembering a story idea I had a while back and now that I think of it, it might make an interesting campaign.
In short, the gods died. The pantheon is no more. But their power lives on. Thousands (more?) of beings across the known world have inherited a sliver of godly power and as they face steadily greater challenges, they gather more power from the other godly candidates who failed their own challenges. Eventually there will only be a few candidates left, and those will become the new gods. Part of the reason this might work is that the gods aren't just god of blank. Each god is the direct result of a candidate's personality, goals, and the strange things that happened during their ascension. Then there's the fun questions. Can only people become gods? Are some of the candidates animals? Are there other gods/pantheons out there somewhere? Are they aware of this? Are they interring? Did they kill the old gods? Who/what killed the old gods? Does this have to be a new pantheon? What if one candidate successfully killed all the others? Fun stuff like that.
It's also an interesting way to explain the leveling system. Maybe this is why there are so many monsters around? It only started with the old pantheon's demise? The characters could be some of these candidates.
Thanks for reading.
Morrowind had an amazing take on religion, and it seemed the Main Quest of that game revolves around exploring that religion, and apotheosis in general. Meeting with Vivec (and to a lesser extent Alamalexia), and speaking to a living god in that game was and still is a fun exercise in theology. The Temple Questline, and the final battle and conversation with Dagoth Ur really help to sell the religion of the Dunmer. I feel like the developers really had something to say, which is why that game is still remembered fondly 20 years later.
Jim used the f word a lot this episode and I was slightly more in tuned because of it 😂 great video guys, I always put your stuff to use.
when I think of successful campaigns w homebrew pantheons, I'm really drawn to the Friends at the Table podcast with their Hieron campaign setting. Particularly w the "Marielda" arc, the group does a wonderful job of EMBEDDING the mythology in the gameplay to the point of like... having a literal god narrate the opening to each episode and having the PCs participate in a living myth of their world! Good stuff.
I've been thinking a lot about this since it went live. I'm definitely on board with the idea that "everywhere you go everybody has the same gods" is boring. Particularly for larger scale campaigns where a group of adventurers may find themselves in far flung, sometimes isolated locales. Even if they do worship the same gods, it's going to look different depending on location and tradition.
I personally love the idea of taking a look at real world examples like Santeria for example, where circumstances and culture incorporated and altered popular religious practices creating something wholly new. I also like the idea of a large conquering civilization that collects the gods of the conquered eg Ancient Rome.
I go back to the Black Company series a lot when thinking about the religions of different cultures/areas and how they're encountered by a roaming group of adventurers. One that stands out in particular is the encounter with a guy named Marron Shed in an isolated northern town called Juniper. There, the people observe an unnamed religion that's notable for it's burial rites. They maintain a large subterranean catacomb which are curated by a group of semi clerical men called the Custodians. The dead are looked after by mysterious, deadly, possibly supernatural creatures the Guardians who protect the dead from the living.
Not much else is given about the religious practices, but for the purposes of the narrative adventure, not much else is needed. There's a vast subteranean network of the dead buried with treasure. Guarded by some creatures, and it's enough for the unscrupulous foreigners to make some gold. I see something like that, and I think this is a great start for a pretty classic adventure, without the need to pull in a pantheon or even a specific deity. You can flesh it out a little just in case the players want to know more about the place (I stick with ancestor worship, as it makes a lot of sense with how protective the townsfolk are of the dead, ancient and otherwise).
*I know this is getting long, but you guys triggered some thoughts on this subject, bare with me a little longer though*
I've also been thinking a lot about how divine magic works in my own game, where it comes from, etc. Especially alongside a diverse and ever expanding roster of deities of varying powers and influence. So, I've started with the bog standard generic cleric and decided to approach it from a different angle. The Necromancy video actually started me down this path, I thought about doing some work on the Necromancy school for my own game alongside the Cleric. And I looked back at previous editions, and I sort of like the idea of the great wheel cosmology. And starting with the negative and positive material planes as sources for power within the Divine magics. Not so much that these powers are granted by a deity, but drawn from the planes themselves.
Additionally, this got me thinking about a sort of Warlock style patronage being possible for a Cleric. Pledging themselves to Celestial or Infernal beings in exchange for heightened powers.
TLDR you've set me down a bumpy road indeed.
Pruitt and Jim, truly the Flavor Flav and Chuck D of the D&D universe.
I'm new to D&D, actually haven't even started yet but I'm already thinking about this, I want to create a world that's basically an entire cityscape kinda like Ravnica, with wild areas on the outskirts. Where the gods come in are the 2 moons, both are actually gods, one is a god of order, and the other is chaos. The chaos moon is shattered though, and in my story once a year it reconstructs and some kind of terrible thing happens, I got the idea from Devil's Night, the night before Halloween. I don't have much yet, but that's basically where I've started. I might add demigods as leaders in the city that flip alignments once a year to shake things up as well, and any player characters are welcomed to reference and draw upon their own gods since as far as I'm concerned they're interplanar beings so they can fit in.
This is very interesting. In the homebrew game I played each major deity had different philosophies and "branches", for example, the God of Suffering had people who believed their God wanted them to suffer and sacrifice themselves for others, while another branch thought that causing conflict and Suffering was the only way to separate the strong for the weak.
Another great video! Love you guys just want to say thanks for all the great content!
If you guys want an idea for a video maybe this!...
I’d love to see a video about doing ‘One Shots’ aka an interesting one or two session game! Our group is gonna be trying some weekly one shots to try out some mechanics and optional rules and I’d love to hear your take on everything about it! Or even recommended one shot ideas you guys have.
Thanks again much love!
I borrowed a lot fo ideas for my pantheon from the Malazan Book of the Fallen series, which is the best example of fantasy world0building ever put down on paper. Bar none. The author's take on gods is awesome.
I never considered those to sides to religion you guys brought up! "Hope and/or Obedience"
In my world there are multiple creation mythos. It gives scholars something to argue about.
Im currently using Greyhawk deities in my main campaign, but there was an Empire that worshipped Elementals and Titans before the current deities. Most of those beings are still around somewhere since they are immortal, but there power has waned.
Another setting/continent I run has an Empyrean godking. Worship of other deities is outlawed. He doesn't have clerics he has celestial warlocks. He fears magic powerful enough to harm him so magic and magic items are tightly controlled. Also there is a Kraken that creates a maelstrom to prevent the Empyrean and people from leaving his continent.
Greyhawk gods are the best
I was pleased to see you brought up some alternate approaches to religion aside from the usual loose pantheon and thought I'd share a little about one campaign I am in right now. It uses an animistic system where there's a ton of individual spirits out there, and I'm surprised it's not a more popular approach given how fun it's been. It gives the game more of a Fey flavor as the spirits are more like powerful NPCs than gods and they often have alien values since their domains are narrow. Also, important concepts or locations to humans can cause the birth of young spirits: there are spirits of natural landmarks and forces, but we've also had spirits of gunpowder, written language, and buildings. I've been liking the flexibility this approach gives for character concepts, as well. Instead of pickin from a list, Warlocks and divine characters have the option of designing their own spirit or having the DM design one especially for them.
I’m trying to design a pantheon for my gf’s fantasy world, but I’ve never played a TTRPG before and was worried about the standards of fantasy pantheons. Watching this has comforted me very much. I appreciate it!
I find the Elder Scrolls gods to be a fun pantheon, because at first it just looks like your standard fantasy pantheon, until you realise that the Wood Elves have a similar pantheon but different. The Khajiit have elements of that pantheon, as well as others. The Redguards have a dramatically different pantheon, but they're just different aspects of the main pantheon gods.
And what it is is in the universe of the Elder Scrolls, there are these metabeings, these 9 gods and 16 daedric princes, and different cultures have emerged and created their own forms of faith, but they all are built around these powerful beings. Because they definitively exist, and in the case of the Daedric Princes, you can even meet them.
It's a cool way of taking a fairly average Fantasy pantheon, and twisting it to make it interesting and varied, without having to make endless numbers of different gods.
And then Tiber Septim, the Shezzarine, the Dunmer Tribunal and the Argonian Hist come along to confuse and muddy the waters of what it is to be divine, and what makes a God.
A ton of big words in this video that makes me realize how little I know about deities and pantheons in D&D. Thank you for passing along some knowledge... Hitting the "thumbs up" button now...
I’d love to see you guys delve into Mystara and the old BECMI concept of Immortals in relation to this topic.
Wow! I was just wanting to do this but didnt know how!