Low Magic- Do More w/ Less in 5e Dungeons & Dragons - Web DM
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ก.ค. 2024
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Do you have the 180pg PDF you mentioned?
May not be the exact same one they mentioned, but it is free and 180 pages.
@@Pointandlaughh Thanks for this! I heartily agree, magic gets boring when it's everywhere. It should be used sparingly, as Tolkien did!
I have seen it suggested for "grittier" play to consider implementing the house rule that all Magic requires a roll of a D20, and a spell failure prompts a roll on the critical spell failure table, (like the one you may find in DCC (Dungeon Crawl Classics) or Five Torches Deep.
Also, implementing a level cap and implementing the Healer's Kit Dependency rule, requiring that the character spend Hit Dice to regain hit points on a Short Rest. I would also use the "Slow Natural Healing" Rule and spend Hit Dice to regain hit points as they would on a Short Rest.
This requires that players keep a small store of Healer's Kits, and keep track of their resources more carefully. It will also require that they utilize better planning before they enter hastily into combat. -- I would not muck with the length of time that a Short and Long Rest are, but requiring that players keep track of these more "realistic" parts of healing oneself.
It is harder for you to heal IRL if you haven't treated yourself or been treated by someone with basic First Aid, so why would normal short-term rest gain you anything different, even in an otherwise fantasy magic-filled world?
Mid Magic-you cast a spell and everyone turns to watch, but no one disagrees with you.
High Magic-you cast a spell and a peasant says "Oh good timing, would you happen to know "mend" too?"
Low Magic-you cast a spell and peasants drop to their feet and worship you, or a noble asks which family you're from.
Dark Magic-you cast a spell and next thing you know the town is on fire with screams of "HERESY!" everywhere.
Darkmagic could very well lead to panties flying, though.
Or doves
Great summary! I love it!
The best explanation right here folks
PERFECT!!!
I’m low on health
Then drink a healing potion
No! they’re a limited resource!
IT’S THE FINAL BATTLE!?
But I only have 85 of them
I got scolded by my table for using a Bead of Force ...that we all have 4 of...that we've all been carrying for 3 sessions now without using a single one...
@@giraffedragon6110 It was a perfect opportunity, too, I have no AoE abilities and was being cornered by about 8 enemies, so the bead let me hit all of them for a nice 2d10. This has been my first campaign with randos from a game shop so it's been a new experience lol
Lol Prozd
"Drink a healing potion"
> potion is actually not to be taken orally but trough injection
> it's meant for orc metabolism and is incompatible to others
> has side effects like dizziness and fatigue
> it's past due its expiry date
> the person in question is allergic to one of the ingredients used to create the potion
85? I had a cleric that had like a month or 2 of downtime so I spent all my money, and wasted time to craft over 100 scrolls of cure light wounds. We stopped that game in our next session lol.
I always considered LotR to be a low magic setting. All the epic magic stuff happened in previous ages and most of the magic is gone.
Jesse P You're not wrong. It's high fantasy for sure, but very low magic.
For sure. Gandalf has at best like 3rd level magic, and he's a minor deity.
The terrific Adventures in Middle-Earth by C7 illustrates how this plays out.
gandalf has an extreme level of magic but there are rules set about by the deity he represents against using powerful magic and pursuit of power.saruman broke that rule and as you recall he used a snow storm to drive the fellowship into moria.those guys have a lot of magic but they are bound by rules against using it.
Gandalf is more akin to a level 20 Mage that rarely use his power
A level 3 mage would have been stomped by the first few orcs, or annihilated by the Balrog xD
I started watching this not realizing my headphones were unplugged, I assumed the intro was just silent for comedic effect adding onto the "Do more with less" in the title. The over exaggerated gestures only compounded this.
...it wasn't until after the intro finished that I realized my mistake.
Zieryk 200 IQ
I know this kinda misses the whole point of the video, but as soon as you mentioned having to have material components for spells, I immediately thought of a wizard running a large bat farm to fuel his Fireballs.
That's honestly a fine idea. If there's only going to be a few wizards, you want anywhere they've set up shop to be flipping weird.
I'd want to play a merchant who can't cast spells but travels around reading spells for components lists and hoarding them so casters would have to trade and deal with me for rare and bulk materials.
probably would need to do a percentile roll every week or day or something to see if his place blows up ;)
I have done this lol
Chicken of the cave
Fun fact: Most "magic swords" in history are really just exceptionally well-made swords, ones that were forged with more skill or a higher carbon and extremely low phosphorus and sulfur content, making the steel really nice, and then the blade was correctly quenched and then tempered, when maybe almost no swords got that spa treatment.
If I went to the bronze age with a steel longsword, that longsword would be revered as the most powerful weapon in the world, and go down in history as a legendary, mythic weapon. Bronze cannot hold up against well-tempered steel. The blade would seem invincible, as all the softer metals would chip and break so much more easily.
Likely, Excalibur was just a really well-made steel sword that required significantly less maintenance to keep in good condition, and it would chip other blades more often because it was a harder material.
So in low magic settings, you could say that there is no quenched and tempered steel, there's only iron, copper, and bronze, and that +1 or +2 sword you get is the first steel sword, or it's a steel sword from an age forgotten where they figured out how to smelt iron into steel
I kinda worked up a system where there are two levels of this and two types. There's superior (+1) and masterwork (+2); then there is balanced to increase attack roll and sharpened (for slashing or piercing) or brutal (for bludgeon) to increase damage. Of course there are few and far between actually magical weapons.
I actually worked on a system were there are two levels and types for this. There's superior (+1) and master work (+2) then there is balanced for attack rolls and sharpened (for slashing or piercing) or brutal (for bludgeon). Then a very few and far between actually magical weapons.
The Micheal Sullivan Age of Myth series has this. It is a low magic setting where the best weapons available to humans are copper (and that's rare, owning a copper sword is enough to be a local legend) ... dwarves know how to work iron into a sort of steel, and elves get it from the dwarves, but in (even more) ancient times it was known how to make what would probably approximate our modern steel. So yea, in that setting having an iron/bronze sword would be like a +1 and a true steel sword would be a +2 or +3 I would think.
adamantine weapons that gave a nonmagical attack bonus , in 3e I think it was a nonmagical attack and damage bonus.. essentially the same concept, just shift the materials to suit the setting.
You can also see this in history with Damascus Steel blades, forged in southern India and Sri Lanka as early as the Third Century and up to the late 1700s (the original methods have since been lost, though many claim to be able to replicate it). The materials and forging technique made them much sharper and more durable compared to steel weapons of their age, giving rise to legends about how they could cleave through gun barrels or cut a hair that fell across the blade. It also helped that the forging process gave the steel intricate damask patterns which likely contributed to their mystique. This steel served as the inspiration for Valyrian steel in the ASoIaF/GoT universe.
Modern steel like spring 5160 would put to shame any sword forged in the early medieval age in any part of the world.
I would just like to put out there that Lord of the Rings is definitely a mid to low magic setting. Gandalf barely casts spells, the most magic in the entire story is on Frodo, a sword that gives him an alert when dark things are near that he got from Bilbo who is an adventurer, as well as a cursed ring and a cloak of Elven kind. Oh and a bottle with light cast on it. His mithral chain isn't even magic, just chain mail made of mithral and forged by Dwarves if I remember right. All just a ranger, two fighters, a barbarian (I assume Gimli is a barbarian, I am willing to be wrong), a wizard, and 4 rogues. Frodo made a lot of wisdom saves over that journey for a low level character carrying a Lich's cursed phylactery.
Even that bottle is a Silmaril, an artefact from thousands of years ago
@@davidwright6591 the Vial of Galadriel only contains a *tiny* sliver of the light of a Silmaril
@AmishRiot The stereotypical barbarian is from a tribal culture sure, but I don't think they have to be.
All of my games are low magic because I keep forgetting to give out enough magic items
you and every other dm 😂
If you're playing 5e there is no such thing as "enough magic items". The game is balanced around *no* magic items and if you give them out you need to take that into account when you consider encounter difficulty.
Though the designers do caution against granting no magic items if your party is low on casting/magical abilities as the game is then unbalanced with creatures that are resistant to non-magic.
Consumables. Raise the output of consumables
Give out more!
I think the setting of Berserk could be a good campaign setting for D&D you start out in the Low Fantasy Golden Age Arc and as the story progresses Magic becomes more and more common after the Eclipse.
Oops I'd play a beserk campaign in a heartbeat
well if everyone was a fighter barbarian with a 7 foot sword who would truly fuck with them
CLANG!
Inquisitor Thomas i wold play in that world. Hell yeah.
I HAVE BEEN THINKING ABOUT THIS FOR MONTHS NOOOOOOOOOOOO...w i feel unspecial
If you're using gritty realism where a long rest takes a week, it makes warlocks really tempting as an option because they just need a good night's sleep to get their magic back. Meanwhile, the wizard has to spend a week poring over his books, the cleric's spending a week in prayer, and the druid's off in the woods somewhere. It would also probably make everyone else fear warlocks because of how much magic they have access to
Licjr 1018 It really does make recharging on a long rest feel much, much worse. Getting one charge of something in a long rest doesn't feel like much when you get it back in an 8 hour rest, especially if you can just hole up in a dungeon for that nap uninterrupted. However, when you stroll into a dungeon knowing you will have to clear it before you can take a rest at all, maybe sneaking in a short rest if you're *super* lucky halfway through for your fighter and warlock to recharge puts a hefty weight onto your cantrips, and as you said, Warlock and Fighter recharging on a short rest means they're likely to be ready to go in a much, much shorter time than the other members of the party.
I have tried gritty realism before, and it doesn't really work out. It either does one of two things. The first is that it can just speed up the amount of time passing, as players simply announce "alright, we shall wait here a week!". Yeah you can do deadlines, but at normal speed in gritty realism gives bad blood with players, or if you adjust it, why even do gritty realism? The other thing it creates is "Vietnam war" syndrome. Honor and pitched battles go right out the window if the players decide this is how to deal with gritty realism. They will pull out the traps, never directly fight enemies, and rely on a small army of disposable pets and hirelings if you give them. I believe Web DM mentioned a guy like this once, who looked at the PHB and came back a ranger with 12 pet wolves and a case of molotov cocktails.
I would point out that it depends richly on how the GM allows for those rules. Technically, everything still falls under the perview of the GM's fiat, and when it's discussed and settled upon in "session 0", you did say "gritty realism"...
The point here is the "balance" within the campaign. If a game-mechanic type adjustment throws the balance off to one or two classes, then it needs "re-tuned" for the desired world or setting. Simple as that. So in a truly "low magic" adjustment, the warlock may not even be recognizeable if it exists as a class at all. Warrior or Fighter, since it's based entirely on non-magical recovery may not change much, but without the "bang" of a magic effect, it's still balanced through the careful application of said "bang" by the "bang-able" characters...
It's actually been my experience, when done well, a low magic style or narrative tends to engage Players in more creativity. Just because the over-all magic of a campaign or setting is low doesn't make magic cease to exist. So you don't have world-shaking spells or items running around. You can't necessarily get those innate abilities... You can start learning "the game of subtlety" and toning down the magic expenses can tune up more technical and tactical thinking in the party.
On the whole, though, for the sake of "believability" in the world-setting in general, I've also found that with less magic running loose in the world, technology tends to grow and adapt to take some of the place of it, so you can have more artificers and tinkers or mechanical geniuses in-game, to accomplish some (not all) of the players' intentions and goals. :o)
RoverStorm Honestly your first option is one of the biggest draws for my players. My fiancee needs some realism. magic and stuff she can take, saving the world, advancing 8 levels, and getting beaten to near death 12 times in the course of a week she can't. and I'm a huge low-magic buff (outside potions and MAYBE some single-use trinkets, good luck finding a magic item before level 7 with me), so this was the group's compromise. just up the time spent in-town, and it lets everyone actually have downtime activities.
My game uses this option for rests and I love it. It gives combat and encounters more weight, and makes the long rests their own sort of ordeal in which we discuss downtime activities etc. It also makes hit points feel more realistic as you actually have to recover from battle. I haven't encountered any of the issues discussed in this thread either.
The intros have been 10/10 in the past few videos. Keep it up dudes
They've clearly made some kind of dark pact and sacrificed the quality of their outros
"Hey DM, what's the verbal component of Feeblemind?"
"Excellent question... Observe!" 22:08
When you’re scrolling through your TH-cam and see a video from you favorite creator posted “25 seconds” ago. Ummmm yes please.
LOW MAGIC, HELL YEAH! This is my jam, my go-to, it's what I love. I was raised by a GM who once had a player jump off a bridge 4 times to try to get 12 gold. came up with 2 hit points at level 3 and thought it worth it. in PATHFINDER. a guy once offered us 100 gold split between a 3rd level party and we turned it down. that was more gold than we'd seen in the last 3 campaigns COMBINED, it had to be a trap. and magic items? oh you mean artifacts made by archwizards, because a normal magic item to you was unheard of to us. and that archwizard might even be level 9 or 10 in that casting class if we're talking a huge kingdom. 11th level Pathfinder party, before the final dungeon we got our first magic items in our 3 years of playing, barring that bag of devouring.
and I LOVE it. give me a world where magic actually feels magical, what's the point of magic if it's not extraordinary? I mean I also just love low power in general. I've never taken a party above 12th level and rarely get that high. I love worlds where it takes an army to take down that dragon, where casting a fireball is actually a big deal, where clerics don't just routinely get the ability to revive the dead! Townsfolk blame every random occurrence on the fey, monsters, or witcheses, and any magic user apart from a holy man is probably a witcheses and therefore suspicious.. so that sorcerer carries armor and a crossbow. nothing like watching a thunder-focused storm sorcerer desparately trying to take things into the woods because they know they can't cast in this town. searching the world for a magic artifact they heard can make rainstorms, because then they could cast more freely, the wind hiding thier whipping hair and the storm masking thier thunderclaps.
and making monsters exciting! those adventurers roam and make money because the supernatural is something normal people haven't typically seen and don't want to tangle with. you know the names of things. it's not just a beast, that's the legendary Thin Man, who lives in the reeds and stalks the grove at night. and now it may just be a low-level fey, but it has a name and a backstory and is remembered. along with the old man actually committing the murders because he lost an eye to the thin man years ago when he chased it off, and now that it's back people don't believe it exists, but HE KNOWS! HE'LL MAKE THEM SEE BEFORE IT STARTS AGAIN! IT'S OUT THERE, IN THE REEEEEDS!
...my players still won't stop yelling 'IN THE REEDS at any given time, years later XD
I agree with a lot of this.
But seriously? The group should have actively sought out magic items, not just waited to recieve them from the BBEG's bodyguards. Oh, there's the ancient tomb of the elven queen. Well, time to go grave robbing. Got your first thousand gold? Damn the fighter and his mithril, lets speak business with the wizard (business might be "We'll do work for you in exchange for a small enchantment placed on this sword, or one of those potions.")
Of course, a lot of things are riskier without magic. But there are some ways you could get around that.
No. that wouldn't happen. We received those items directly from the king of the biggest kingdom on the continent, from his personal wizard that made things for him and those he personally chose, exclusively. you don't just 'go raid a tomb' because if you somehow found an unraided tomb of that magnitude there's no way in hell it was unraided without reason. you didn't loot magic from evil guys, the evil guys rarely had it either because level 9 or 10 was the highest NPC level you were ever gonna see and nobody went into enchanting. platinum didn't exist in his worlds. you can't get 1000 gold when 1000 gold didn't exist to raid, unless you were burning and looting a minor noble at minimum. my character wouldn't leave until the FURNITURE was dismantled, it's not like we were leaving things. but our only money came from what was on people and selling what we found and didn't need.
and honestly nobody cared in the slightest. we weren't unprovided for. we never really found ourselves in a position where we needed gold. we had enough silver and copper for our food and basic supplies and a few extra things we wanted, we found the rest one way or another. or got creative. our rewards often came from the monsters, who either didn't have gold because bears don't carry it, or were sentients just as poor as we and most other people were. our GM essentially looked at the expected rewards, looked at the food and housing and such on the equipment charts,, then said 'no farmer is handing out a year's pay for his task. he's paying you in a trade or info or favosr" and we said 'ok sweet that makes perfect sense and it was just as valuable in the end. we never found ourselves stuck and rarely had a death because we approached things creatively. which was good since we didn't do resurrection for obvious reasons
Not my cup of tea
Honestly I would LOVE to try to play a wizard in that world. Desperately fight tooth and nail for what little scraps of magic I can, relying primarily on cantrips and whatnot because truly powerful magic is so rare and valuable. Maybe its not so much that you forget the spell upon use but it takes time to prepare, the incantation you give upon the cast is only the trigger pulled on a loaded gun you spent weeks crafting. The idea of searching for rare spell components and raiding ancient temples for dusty tomes that may reveal long forgotten spells sounds like a fuckton of fun. You have to go around like a traveling priest perhaps or scholar and must be careful around who you cast your work because the suspicious population may burn you at the stake for your power.
In my current campaign, I have a very small part of the continent the players are on that is in a Golden Age/Renaissance where magic is very common. However, the other 70% of the continent is in a dark age with tons of war, famine & plagues, barbarians, suspicion of magic & witch trials. I feel like it gives a special kind of civilization vs wilderness feel.
Golden I have a city that is high magic. everywhere else is low magic. I do this mechanically by using the gritty realism option everywhere except that city
Started with 2e then moved into 3.5e
Glaston City, or City of Glaston, Glaston City State. once known as Glass Town.
Fishing port with near by mines that provide the goods needed to make glass wares. Made the town fort wealthy enough to build a wizard college.
The 14th-level wizards used Ensnarement/ Planar Binding to get a Baator Pit Fiend Devil, efreeti fire genie, and a night hag as school teachers for the city's high school and wizard college. Most locals are Neutral in out look and very, very polite. And all of them have been schooled in Contract making of deals & favors.
Also they have a green dragon clan living there.
I was just binge watching this channel for the past couple of days and you guys don’t disappoint.
I like the idea of a low magic setting that the most powerful casters are the 1/3rd casters like the Eldritch Knight and Arcane Trickster. Shame there is only two of them.
Doesn't the ranger count?
A really good low magic setting is Glorantha, from the King of Dragon Pass. The magic is very subtle and there are only one or two casters in the game. The Necromancer in that game will routinely wreck any party you send to fight him.
The Ranger is a Half-Caster and is on the same level as a Paladin when it comes to spells. The spell less Ranger from Unearthed Arcana would be perfect for a low fantasy game.
warlocks fit that bill depending on your pact boons
Anonymous But warlocks supposedly get power from powerful entities, which is hard to justify.
Combine low magic with a post apocalypse setting and you basically have a genuinely interesting combination of campaign ideas
Would a low-magic setting really mean less monsters?
A lot of the DND monsters don't feature any magic in them, being mainly driven by natural or quasi-natural means.
It seems when people talk about "low-magic settings" what they are actually thinking about are more historical types of settings more similar to our own ancient history on earth, featuring mainly humans and with a bit of fantasy carefully sprinkled in on top.
I for one could easily imagine a low-magic setting that featured almost no humans at all, mostly just Orcs and Dwarves instead.
An alien world might also be a low magical setting, even if the environment isn't like anything we have on earth; it still lacks the magical element.
Low magic doesnt always mean low fantasy.
I'd like to say, I have two favorite quotes from this video now that I've watched it all the way through.
"You have six stats and your imagination."
and
"Orc would rip your f!(%'n head off."
Jim Davis you man beast
Wow, so Pruitt you made me play a Cleric of Tempest in the late 90's when we both worked at the movies 6 even though I was only able to play in like 3,4 sessions. So thanks for that intro it left a lasting impression.
There are so many ways to interpret low/high fantasy. I'd say LOTR is pretty classic high-fantasy, yet in that setting magic and "unnatural monsters" are pretty rare when you think about it. The only reason we are exposed to it through the story is really because the characters do happen to meet and interact with some of the most powerful mythical elements of the world. I mean, who can really cast magic in LOTR? The wizards are basically half-gods, the elven casters are inconceivably ancient and born of a time where magic was more prevalent, and then there's basically demons made by evil gods and their closest disciples corrupted by their power.
In that sense, what we are talking about in this video is really not so far from a LOTR setting - and that's a decent place to be I think. If magic is too prevalent it loses it's "magic" so to speak. If everyone is special, then no one is special.
I think the over-prevalence of magic in D&D now is mostly just a form of power-creep. It used to be more limited in the early editions. Now it's to the point where characters without access to spells or spell-like powers are almost rare.
I think ultimately low-fantasy is the way to go for a lot of people, but it does require both a mature DM who isn't going to be over-controlling about it, as well as mature players (regardless of age) who agree to and want that sort of setting.
I'd definitely enforce some sort of multiclassing on magic-classes in this sort of setup along with all the other changes. magic magic rarer and more meaningful is good, but you don't want a situation where those players feel they are unable to contribute outside of the occational grand displays they are capable of. Heck, even Gandalf fought with a sword ;)
The terms "high" and "low" fantasy refer to the setting, not to the magic level per say, although low fantasy settings tend to be low magic. Low fantasy is magic intruding into the real world, while high fantasy settings are set in a fictional world with its own history.
"High" magic, by the contemporary definition, is limited to mostly to RPGs or their derivative works. Overly high magic tends to merge into sci-fi, since magic would tend to replace technology, such as crystal balls replacing the telegraph and telephone or damage spells replacing firearms and other weapons.
Thank you for the video. I like the ideas and suggestions you made. The last three lines really summed up the whole thing really well. "Just another orc". "An orc would rip your fucking head off." That really puts it into perspective. It's too easy to forget how scary and fantastic the monsters really are.
Hey guys, thanks for the Low Fantasy Gaming RPG shout out, appreciate it :D
I've been working on a campaign setting where character creation is role - played over 5 levels. I wanted a game where magic is rare and the players feel how hard it is being a normal person. While really feeling an impact with every stat point, every hit die, their race, and background. By the time the players get their first class level they have six levels of role play experience.
I've started my last three campaigns by having my players only choose races, then role-playing stats as children, then backgrounds as young adults, then kick-off an adventure with their class selection. It's been a lot of fun for me and my players, and has caused a lot of players to choose character options they wouldn't have tried and really loving their character.
One of my long time players has always planned his characters out ahead of time only to grow bored and wanting to make a new character every couple levels. Doing character creation this way has made the first character he has held onto for all 9 levels of the game. He is still loving this character and the players are almost 10th level and going strong.
Coming back to this video, I've been thinking about 5e and low magic games, and how to handle that. First, you'd mostly be Fighters, Rogues, Barbarians, Monks, and Rangers, and without any subclasses that give magic. Those Rangers don't need to have their spells removed, per se. They can just be reflavored. Instead of casting a spell to Speak with Animals, it's just the Ranger being in tune with beasts and knowing how to use body language to read and convey meaning. Instead of an Entangling Shot that summons vines or whatever, your Ranger just loads a Bola into their crossbow or something. Ranger spells are generally on the low key side, so some could be reflavored as just "class features Rangers can choose from", while others are disallowed.
Another thing, if a player really wanted to have some kind of spell casting, there's another level of scaling back you can do. There are no spellcaster classes, just characters who took Feats like Magic Initiate or Ritual Caster. You can still have a character who spent years studying magic (took the Sage background), but the results of that is having two Cantrips and a 1st level spell. When you adjust down from "Full Caster" or even half/quarter casters, those couple of Cantrips suddenly become really impressive. If your "wizard" is just a Rogue who can throw Fire Bolts and use Prestidigitation, they will learn to get a lot of mileage from those cantrips. Their ability to just throw fire at someone, or to do a bunch of harmless tricks, will seem fantastic and wild. And using their one casting of the 1st level spell becomes really tense, since they never know when they should use it, or when they should save it for later.
The Ritual Caster, meanwhile, has to adjust their expectations away from instant effects, and towards planning ahead and time investments. They actually look like this high ritualist, who goes to great lengths to achieve even the slightest magical result. In such cases, you may want to append the Ritual tag onto more spells, or invent more spells with a mind towards long cast times.
Sounds good. You could also say that he has a commanding personality (Command), can inspire allies (Aid), knows the proper procedures for sterilizing consumables (Purify Food and Water), and has a heightened awareness of signs in the environment that signal unnatural forces (Detect Magic) or things not meant for this world (Detect Evil and Good). It's all perfectly mundane, albeit on the edge of what normal people can do.
Heck, it works for the Order of Reason. [ _Mage: The Sorcerer's Crusade_ reference]
One advantage of low-fantasy campaigns is that it makes magical opponents like liches that much more terrifying.
btw as a patreon ty for this episode. been wanting it for a while.
best.
Keep up the great work, guys! I'm always excited to see what topic you are going to cover next, and even if I go into it not being the biggest fan of the concept, you always end up making me (at the very least) able to understand how such a concept could be fun and interesting.
Please do a recalibration of expectation for 5e video!
It would be great to know for a 3rd level Fighter compares to Olympic athletes (or other level athletes).
This is my favorite web dm episode. Keep up the great work!
THANK YOU. I had been wanting to see you guys mull over LF games
Honestly, I appreciate you guys and I think what you do is awesome.
Thank you for making this video! Our table is currently playing a game of "no humanoids are more than half-casters" and the idea for this definitely came from here. We're having an amazing time!
Fantastic episode. Finally watched them all, and they are all great, all interesting and helpful. Keep up the good work guys! And thanks to everyone behind the scenes.
Great work as always. Some ideas I'm interested in seeing you guys talk about.
-outsider races, i.e. Tieflings, Aasimar, and Genasi
-Raising powerful creatures in a party say the obvious one being finding a dragon egg, but maybe also griffons, chimera, etc. Your input would be interesting.
-Maybe a video on the Death Knight like you did for the Lich???
-Video talking about the Gith and how you would use the Githyanki or the Githzerai?
You guys do a great job with your videos and the amount of info in them is awesome. Keep up the great work!
I know this video is coming up on two years old but it gave me plenty of inspiration for a campaign. I have been binging all your videos since I found your channel a few weeks ago. You guys are epic. Thank you very much for all your hard work putting these together.
Great video guys. I've always been drawn to low fantasy/magic settings. I feel like they fuel the creative and role play aspects of D&D. So many great ideas i had to bookmark this vid!
This was a great video and helped clear a lot of things up for me. Thank you!
Oh man. I've been listening to so many of your videos. I'm so ready to sit down after work and get pencil to paper. General spell overhauls. Mass combat using Age of Sigmar/Warhammer rules. Gritty Realism. The undead as terrain hazards. I'm so excited!
the LOTR book you mentioned absolutely solved my low magic woes. Thank you guys so much for introducing me to this
Thanks guys, really enjoyed this one.
Thanks so much! This is perfect for me as I run my campaign in a low-magic campaign. I've been playing in other systems for decades but now my friends want me to run a 5e game and I've been struggling!
Cheers!
Another awesome one you guys--great work!
Hell yeah! I made an entire homebrew 'edition' of D&D primarily for low magic (also for ease for noobs) and this has given me some inspiration to tweak a couple of bits of it.
Hmm.... In terms of low magic use and resting, I really like the rule from AiME where you can only get a long rest in an area which is well protected and comfortable. I wonder how well that rule might work for spellcasters.
This is my fave video by u guys now!!
Excellent inspiration!
I really really love this video guys! I really like a lot of the ideas you have put in here, and it gives me a lot of inspiration of how to run a more Medieval type of game. I'm starting new Campaign soon and this has been a big help with ideas.
I love the idea of a lo e fantasy game, and I'm really intrigued by your suggestion of changing the time requirements for rests. I think the particular group I run for would most likely be frustrated by a campaign like this though, they're very loot-oriented
This was nice and eye-opening. Knowing what low-fantasy really is makes me better appreciate this medium magic we've got.
Ok. This was some high-quality shit. The most impressive and erudite RP podcast I've seen so far.
Hats off.
We ran a low magic game in the Pure Steam setting using pathfinder rules. Solving problems with magic was a great rp expierience. Love the content guys!
This video actually came at a really good time for world-building for my next campaign, adds a new layer to it that could be really compelling...
I love when Jim just has no idea what Pruitt is going to say next... Pruitt has the best intros on youtube
Great video, low fantasy worlds are my favorite!
Very cool concept i did not consider. Another nice vid thanks again fellas.
Love me some LM/HF games. That's how we rolled (pun intended) back in the 1e/TSR days in our gaming circle, also influenced by the apparent lack of Major Magics in LotR.
Then we discovered Harn! I truly wish I still had all the goodies from then.
Truly glad I found this channel!
Your intro was awesome. You guys are just fun.
Thanks for the fantastic video. I love low-magic fantasy settings, and the idea of each monster being the only monster of its type in the world really appeals to me. Getting players to buy into a low-magic game would be really hard, at least for my group - they love their twin crutches of magic and magic items. :(
I am desperate to play low magic and/or low fantasy at least once in my life. It's why I grab every version of a Conan RPG I come across.
+Alefiend
Take a look at Mythras by the Design Mechanism, which used to be the latest Runequest rules until Chaosium took back the rights to the IP. They have a free version of their rules online called Mythras Imperative that has all the core rules necessary to run the game with only the five "sample" types of magic and maybe a few other small things taken out. One of my personal favorite systems nowadays. And if you have a hankering for more high magic and really like the system, the Classic Fantasy sourcebook by the same company is essentially old-school D&D converted to Mythras.
As an indication of the system's magic level (and ease of modification), I'm slowly working on a Middle Earth conversion AND a set of house rules that would allow for roleplaying in a world like those of the Souls games or even the Berserk manga. It would be pretty easy to run a Conan game with the system, actually. :)
There's really two ways to do a low-magic 5e D&D setting.
1. Have a low magic setting and just assume the PCs are exceptions to the norm. Primeval Thule (google it, it's awesome) is a great example.
2. Try to limit magic in the party itself. Which pretty much means you should just save yourself the trouble and play some other game.
I agree with 2. DnD 5E is not the right game for this, unfortunately, though it used to be pretty easy to do this. I disagree with 1 fir 5E: they wouldn't just be exceptions to the norm, they're complete gods compared to the norm.
This video inspired me to make a low magic viking style campaign set on a series of large islands. I've never made a home brew campaign of this scale before, wish me luck!
Can you do one on critical failures/successes?
You guys are the cutest and I love you both and you're also super informative and I'm learning so much!
Loved that intro
It’s my birthday thank you for posting something!
Mmm, Gath in the thumbnail. Probably the best example I can think of for handling cursed, (semi) sentient magic items in a cool, narrative way. Love me some Dark Sun as well; lots of fun to be had in low fantasy. Thanks for the food for thought, as always!
👍 Great topic! I also like the set and color scheme used in this video.
There was a PBeM 2nd-3rd edition called Bohavia that did low magic fantastically. It was also one of the best campaigns I've ever encountered.
I always thought Dragonlance setting had the perfect amount of magic. (Krynn)
With casters not being allowed to progress past local hero level without travelling to the tower of high sorcery and testing themselves against moral and mental encounters to make sure your worthy of training.
Wizards were capped at 18th level, and Clerics were extinct.
Completely agree.
Dragonlance got it right imo before the war of the Lance; that's really gritty good fantasy.
I always use it as an inlfuence, and then tend to allow cleric magic but very limited, so literally only ONE god, plus demons and 'earth spirit' for Druids, or somthing similar.
I don't think I've ever played with a group that even bothered with spell components. I've yet to run a spellcasting class myself but for the longest time I didn't even know it was technically a mechanic lol. As long as the character had their spellbook or their focus or whatever, they were good to go. It'd be interesting to see a game where the components are actively tracked.
What's a spell component?
J.J Shank Old question but, a spell component is a material object that gets expended when a character casts a spell. You can find out the material spell component in the spell description. Most DMs don't bother with material components, as long as your have a wand or staff or other arcane focus, you cast the spell with no charge. Depending on the spell, it could be as simple as a leaf or a drop of blood from a cut finger, or a diamond worth a thousand gold.
You sexy beasts I forgot it’s Wednesday! This was a beautiful surprise.
For spell memorization, etc. I would recommend looking back to 1e for requirements for casting (track components) and memorization (based on level of spell for time of uninterrupted rest plus time per spell level to memorize).
I've been working on a home brew mechanic called an "offering box". essentially it is attuning generic components.
I may grant 1dX components as loot. These are nameless faceless components used to make potions and prepare spells. To prepare a spell, a caster most put the equivalent number of required components in his or her offering box, close it, and spend an hour in concentration (prayers,focus, chanting, etc.). After an hour, the components have been prepared for a specific spell, and only that spell, unless put back in the offering box and "re-attuned" . (this does not count for spells that use currency as a component.) that character must purchase or find an offering box (rare), or, spend time in town at an alter or holy shrine, or pay a traituer to do it for them.
if they want to craft potions.
- each attempt takes 1 hour
- apply 2 or more components with a vessel to contain it at chemistry station, mortar and pestle, herbalist kit, etc.
- declare one skill they want to focus
- roll intelligence saving throw. add +1 for every component above 2 (example 3=+1 , 4=+2 , etc.) and they add proficiency if they are proficient with the kit.
- if they roll 15 or higher they successfully make the potion. if they crit 20 they make enough for 2 potions
Acrobatics: Papa's joint relief pills- 1d4 guidance to acrobatics for 1 min.
Animal: Lion's piss perfume- add 1d4 guidance to dominating or charming an animal. lasts 1 hour.
Arcana: Purple Drank- add proficiency to spell DC on your next cast
Athletics: Amino Porridge- adv on next ath check
Deception: Tasteless Poison- serve with caution
History: Ancient remedy- 1d8 + history to HP,. Can be used to speed up recovery time.
insight: Trance potion- sense a fiery fire like aura of all creatures as 30ft blind-sight for 3turns.
intimidation: sulfur hexafluoride- voice sounds deeper for 10 seconds
investigation: Crystal Nasal Spray "Study Aid". Requires 1d6 less hours sleep during a long rest if time is used learning. caution: habit forming
Medicine: Health Potion
Nature: Nature's Own Granola Bar 1d8 + Nature to HP
Perception: Eye Drops. Dilates pupils granting Darkvision and light sensitivity for 1 hour
Performance: Bard's Liquid Courage- Strong brew that take the edge off, and grants adv on perf checks for 1hour. Save throw against drunk
Persuasion: Minty Mouth Wash. Adv on persuasion for 10 minutes
Religion: The Lord's Will Energy Drink- 1d8 + religion to HP (can temp-hp above max)
Sleight of Hand: Creamy Lotion- cures dry skin. 1d4 guidance to next Slight of hand
Stealth: Party Snaps- Bonus Action, allow disengage for 1 turn, or use as a diversion lure.
Survival: Zed's Barbarian Blood- Last 3 turns. cap speed at 20. if hp hits zero, roll con save throw and drop to 1hp instead. can also attract undead.
Altitude joke went over my head.
This is my all time favorite intro
lately, these cold opens have been fire
I usually use relatively low magic setting like for dead frost (current campaign setting).
The sorse of magic is magical creatures and a wizard who wanders into town once a year, maybe a 3rd level cleric in some of the biggest cities.
Hey Guys, thanks for the perspective and view on how to give the low magic feeling. I'm making a real-world/modern set campaign and give my player of not only monster slowly creeping in our world but of magic slowly creeping in too. This is giving me ideas.
I would love to play in one of your adventures!
Omg Jim, thank you so much for correcting the less//fewer difference, i was about to lunge through my screen.
Omg yes, my whole group needs to hear the last 5mins of this video. My slots this, my slits that, we can't press on I'm out of spells, got to rest here in the middle of nowhere cleric needs his heals.
About the magic items, something I do is I have a subsection of items for improved non-magic items for things like weapons and armour where they are made by master craftsmen but they do not possess magic capabilities. It makes things really interesting when they manage to get the masterwork +2 weapons but need to change it out for their magic sword that has no bonuses attached to it. I tend to ramp up the magic items as they get higher in level but it makes a change for early game.
I also bring in weapons with restricted functionality; a flame sword for instance might need a canister of oil to temporarily deal an additional d4 damage for 1 minute or a dagger could have a poison capsule embedded to deal additional poison damage on the click of a button. The functionality is there, but there are restrictions on how they can be used and generally there is a cost and/ or restriction on how its used.
Overall I think the most important thing is to be creative and think outside the box. Some abilities may need to be scaled back (second wind for fighters might only restore temporary hit points which will last for 1 minute or need concentration checks to maintain with each hit they take). Maybe the most powerful weapons can only be attuned by someone possessing certain attributes.
Oh hey, my DnD campaign will be low magic, good to see something like this.
So,x mine starts in a realm that has been separated from other dimensions for ages. Recently the walls between worlds are breaking down, spells and magic monsters are returning. The way I'm working with spells with my players is there is an unlocked spell list. Every time they witness a spell being cast or one is cast on them, it goes on the unlocked spell list. Then if they multiclass or subclass into something with spell slots and spell known slots, they can pick from the unlocked pell list.
Prince of Thorns and The First Law series are awesome inspiration for low-magic games.
OMG! Instead of a magic ITEM shop, you only have a spell component shop, and depending on how big the town is, depends on what stock they could have. A tiny village won’t have one at all, or one that moved in recently with stuff for cantrips only. A small town of 200 people could have a general goods store and there’s a section for components that may or may not be stocked.
I can do soooo much with this!
For my games you can't just 'find' or 'buy' potions and scrolls. you want potions? there's a wandering witch with a walking hut in the woods, if you can find him. The creativity you will find is astounding, once you make magic precious. the creative ways they'll find to use those spells just makes me grin.
I had a setting/campaign concept where I steal from various versions of godzilla. Where in, Godzilla (and other titans) search and feed off of atomic energy & weapons.
In this, at some point the magic being developed was getting so out of hand, the gods forsook the land and summoned the Terrasque. In this setting the Terrasque is summoned/drawn in by magic, especially more powerful magic.
So no one casts spells for fear of bringing apocalypse upon them.
Thank you for making this video and discussing this. This really helped me with the fantasy world building for my fantasy comics.
The only spells I have are like the Witcher signs and you cast them with similar hand gestures and there are only seven.
Magic is extremely limited and not really that important to the story and I'd call it extremely low magic fantasy world all the fantasy monsters and fantasy humanoids like elves, drawves, goblins are in it but they are not very magical and you have no wizards, mages and sorcerers that make magic their entire combat style and isn't really a thing that exist.
This really helped me feel better about that.
I mean people will cast spells in combat but a limited to only seven spells that every one has and no one is any more special because they are chosen by the gods or whatever and have an ability that someone doesn't have.
People will chose one spell to use over all the others because it works the best in combat for them.
Party members can cast spells at the same time to combine them and attack and deal damage to same enemy at same time but there is no improving the spells or enhancing the spells there is just the spells in the basic raw form and that's it.
I was more inspired by George RR Martin's A song of Ice and Fire books and how he handles magic and off cause the Witcher and it's Witcher sign magic system which I always thought should be how yennifer and all the rest of the mages should cast spells like geralt does with the Witcher signs. This magic system came from that chain of thought.
Also early medieval hand gonnes exist in this world the ones that were single shot and match lock or lit by a fuse or match stick.
After pouring gun powder down the barrel and loading it with an iron ball or round stone peppel and then held it out in front aimed at something and shot with the lit match in the match lock mechanism.
So there would be more reliance on guns coming into this world.
10:22 Jim sounds like a contractor making an expense report 😭
i love that they have the Tal'Dorei campaign book. id love to know what they think bout Matt Mercer's world
Great episode guys, gave me a lot to think about with my own campaign. It's a relatively high magic setting but I think I want to make magic items more exponential in rarity. So far (They're level 5) they've only found some Common and Uncommon Items with a single Rare item in a Staff of Swarming Insects, except that it's a sentient item on a mission for an evil goddess and the CE Drow took it, betrayed the party, then became an NPC (her player is now a CG High Elf) so I feel like it's still plausible that "Rare" magic items at this point are significantly rare and I think that's something I want to work with going forward.
Great Vid Guys
For Low Magic, I find there a few guidelines that help:-
1. The player groups can’t be too big, as otherwise there are not enough classes to go round.
2. It’s quite good to change the god system to a quasi monotheistic world, but with demons, outsiders etc (warhammer / 40k etc).
3. Pick either wizards, sorcerers, or Warlocks as THE magic class, as then you can have ONE magic system for the world, and make it COST (week to get back spells?).
4. It's good to change up the classes a bit, so only allow spellless rangers or all rangers ‘spells’ are just abilities, Paladins are knights with special magic swords from a bygone age, Only Valour Bards etc
5. It’s very good to have the past civilisation be more powerful, as then there are lots items / monsters / creations to interact with.
misomiso, some thoughts on your points:
1. Not enough classes to go around implies that having multiples is bad.
2. Polytheism existed for thousands of years (and still does) in a NO magic world. Why would a low magic necessitate any "change?"
3. Low magic doesn't mean only one type exists, only that there are a lot of them in total.
4. Sure, I think they mentioned this already.
5. You just described one of the 5e defaults from the DMG.
I thought you could use help with your guidelines :)
I like the idea in this setting of a wizard essentially going back to the old definition of "learned man", so basically a skill-monkey, lore-master or artificer/chemist. With regards to material components and spell foci, you could still have some kind of foci in the game but just not the kind you can carry, so the 'pope' cleric can casts his spells only when on his throne because the throne is his arcane focus, a leftover relic of a more magical age. One-use trinkets and wands would also work in this setting as high level rewards.
God I love these guys 😊