Skill Challenges | Running the Game
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ก.ค. 2024
- Episode 21: I think Skill Challenges are a lot of fun and if used well give you the ability to introduce exciting action sequences into your game that normal D&D combat isn't well-suited for.
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"Kalarel the Vile lies dead on the floor of the summoning chamber. He only had two weeks left until retirement."
His last words "I'm... too... old for this... shit!"
💀😆💀😆
Casserole the Vile and Lady Cereal the Vampire Queen. I think Matt is just hungry.
@@oz_jones underrated joke
"Rocks fall, everyone dies." Matt Coville: No, that's too simple . . . I'll drop a keep on them.
But make a skill challenge 1st
Best comment! Had me rolling on the floor 🤣
I had an epiphany... GM's have the most addictive job: The random shuffling and retry of a hands off surprise/fulfillment of a fantastic world that rights a wrong... All of literature, to any reader, essentially. Tell me I'm wrong in your next dissertation ;-)
@J Loren something ai couldn't do.
A way to use Arcana in a rooftop chase: Time a feather-fall cast on the bad guy when he is jumping, causing him to loose speed and momentum.
Me: Arcana check!
DM: How does that work?
Me: I scan the rooftops for any sort of magical security systems I can set off. i.e. wards, alarms, a weathervane that comes to life and attacks an intruder. (New magic item “CuccoWeathervane”)
Brilliant
excellent.
i want to give you more upvotes!
i'm 13 and a new DM i have been having trouble until i found you. you are so helpful
BoughtSaytr3122 don't worry dude, i'm 21 and i also have trouble with my first time DM'ing
G Kasey
Yeah Matt is awesome. :)
Also, fun fact: my brother traded out the first vector of that picture you've got. Even has the same shines. :O
G Kasey 13? New DM? *Are you my clone?*
practice makes perfect my dude, good for you to try to improve at 13 think what you will do when you'll be much older hehe keep at it we don't begin GMing and be awesome at it we learned from our mistakes :)
Welcome to the hobby, youngster. :)
You won't ever, EVER, stop finding stuff like this useful; I'm 48, and also appreciate these videos.
And at any age, the sole measure of success for GMing is this: "Did thew group have fun?" If they did, you win. If they did not, figure out why; if you can learn from that, you still win.
"I love stealing names that are super cool, from existing things but that maybe are now considered kind of cheesy if you read those books when you were a kid, but these players players have never read those books and they'd be like, "Wow!"
My daughter's wizard master, who she apprenticed with and who is the main one giving them missions on their current quest is Fistandantulus, a delightful old codger who always manages to give them wonderful, playful advice.
One day she confronted me and said "Fistandantulus, eh?"
Somebody found my cache of Dragonlance books.
Fizban
Barak Kor I was planning to add Fizban to my campaign. The players are super new and not likely to ever read those books.
@@craigjones7343 Nabzif is DEFINITELY going in mine.
Oh my. I DM for my son and his teenage friends. I've stolen so much from so many places. Most double edged one ever was when I stole Thulsa Doom as a villain and one of them said I wasn't being very original as it sounded like I was doing a Darth Vader impression!
One of the villains in a game I ran once, an ordinary dude hell bent on becoming a dictator, pretending to fight for the normal people, I've named "Gavlar the Thatch", after Gavin from Gavin and Stacey's nickname, and Margaret Thatcher. Their personality was based on Nigel Farage.
Neither of the players have found that out yet.
I love how Colville's videos when slowed to 75% sound like a normal person.
And 50% gives you drunk Matt lmao
Underrated comment.
@@ShengFink did you try 25%, is even better.
LMAO
Interesting, to me even at normal speed it sounds slowed down, I watch at at least 1.5 speed pretty much always.
Sir. In my humble opinion, your videos on running the game are far better than any others on TH-cam. Half of the rest only lead to a show and tell on that person's campaign. You pack quite a bit of useful info on HOW TO DO these things into these videos (thanks to your rapid speech :) ). There are a fair amount of good actual play videos of D&D campaigns I have been able to discover. I'm looking forward to hearing yours as well (I've got to finish some of these others up first lol). I have no doubt that yours will also be good. But how to run the game....THAT is an area which is sorely lacking in video/audio form, and one where I believe you really shine. So yeah. The intra nets need you. Thank you for these, and keep up the good work! :)
Thanks for watching! As long as you keep tuning in, I'll keep making them!
I've seen plenty of other TH-cam channels which give advice for actually running the game, what makes Matthew special is: a) his inclusiveness, tells his style but he doesn't preach it, b) his positive and enthusiastic energy, c) specifics and details. His advice is very actionable, and clear.
great comment, but why say intranet as oppose to internet, an intra-net would be an internal colection of data that does not connect to anything else, like if you couldnt search youtube on google, and instead you had to walk to youtube HQ and jump into youtube, using a computer in their company building, (or google HQ but not searchable by google, ik its wierd)
i just think you meant internet is all...
I find that many, many others take up half the run time of telling you what they're going to talk about but not actually talking about it.
Matt Mercer did a skill challenge to escape a Duergar fortress earlier on stream. It was really cool and functioned exactly how you described!
It was really cool, the room actually WAS an hourglass
For added entertainment, watch these videos at 1.5 speed. 2x speed for advanced listeners.
Michael Petersen I understand Matt, and i'm russian. Live in Moscow and english isn't my native language. But i'll try your chellenge )))
I enjoy 0.5x far more than 1.5x or 2x. Makes him sound SUPER drunk.
Not even a problem :D. In Scotland everyone talks fast
Omg This is literally the best thing ever
.5 speed that is
Arcana check: mage hand to pull out a loose brick under fleeing bad guy's foot or prestidigitation to make a distracting noise (weapons being drawn, twang of a bow string).
Or just hold person lmao
that's not prestidigitation, that's minor illusion
@@saddamc.h.5639 I've thought about hold person. Wouldn't that just immediately end a chase if it's successful?
Doc Nevyn that’s genius!
@@fredslipknot9 I dont think so, Arcana is Knowledge: Arcana.
Its magical knowledge, just casting a spell isnt enough to count as deep magical knowledge. At very least there'd need to be some context there.
Like in a low magic setting, chasing a demon, and you roll arcana to recall the magical information that Demons are Susceptible to radiant damage, and using that knowledge to know to use Sacred Flame to corner it.
Or in a Setting were Magic Fluctuates often, but does have a pattern. Using Arcana, by analyzing the cycles of the magical fluctuations to the point where you're pretty sure that if you cast Toll the dead, youll end up casting Wall of Force instead and then doing that on purpose to trap the enemy.
My friends and I skipped 4E because we heard it was sort of awful, so we played 3.5 until I shelled out the cash for the 5E books. I seriously doubt I would have ever found out about Skill Challenges if not for this channel.
Just thinking about it, I ran a campaign last year that would have been so much better with a few of these.
4e was great because it focussed on the mechanics of play and how the game worked. It was up to the players to add the lore and details that make a game come to life. But because it was heavy mechanics based, people didnt like it. That and the fact that everything worked like spells which wizard player felt was unfavor because they where no longer gods.
@@TerryAVanguard Hot damn I forgot I even left this comment.
I actually picked up a 4e PHB a week after watching this video and I was blown away by how more actual design went into 4e compared to 5e. 5e feels very half-assed, from the actual mechanics right down to the PHB itself.
The 4e mechanics themselves are super cool, but I totally understand the backlash. I'm not a big fan of the way 4e handles magic items. I know Matt argues otherwise, but it does bear a striking resemblance to how video games handle item drop and leveling. But mostly, I'm sad that my friends and I skipped 4e back in the day.
@@andrewc9929 i completely agree with magic Items. A character shouldnt need them to be able to keep up. That was a mistake. And it had some other serious problems like Combat takeing a session. But most of the problems I hear people complain about can be fixed by being more imaginative in description and flavor text.
Also yeah. I dont tend to look at dates for post time. Either youtube recommended it to me because I watch his stuff or I was going back through it to rejog ideas for my campaigns.
Always loved 4th edition myself. I felt like most of the backlash was silly, superficial stuff. Like how they changed alignment. Less interesting, but how many campaigns really used Alignment outside of Good to Evil anyway? I mean I'm sure plenty did, just probably not very much in the grand scheme of things. And things like calling a Fighter a "Tank", or rather Defender. As if people didn't already do that, you know? Or saying "The rogue is DPS" when I've heard tons of people describe it like that before. Or the wizard "controls the battlefield" when there's entire forums set up to talking about how Wizards in 3rd edition were built to control and disable enemies rather than directly attack them.
I think what really saddened me about it was how so many people viewed the "Powers" as "Magic for Non-Magic Classes" and grumbled about it though. Because... they weren't? I mean like when a Fighter uses Tide of Iron it's effectively: "I used Improved Bull Rush and that feat that let me bullrush for damage" from third edition. It wasn't something NEW necessarily (and the ones that were might as well have just been high level feats in line with other high level feats from third)... it was just easier and didn't require you to be 8th level and 4 feats deep into a chain to pull off. Which... I kind of really liked. And I liked that classes like Fighters had reasons to use different weapons. So instead of the sea of Fighters with Greatswords Power Attack Smashing everything I saw in third and pathfinder, I had people who took up axes, or blades, or spears, or one handed and shields, or two handed weapons, etc, in roughly equal numbers. Because they saw them as interesting, and viable choices.
But well... it's too bad really. So many babies got thrown out with the Bathwater over how the general audience rejected 4th edition. Usually out of hand without really looking at it I find, kinda like Andrew said. Heard it was bad so avoided it.
Also, props for use of Lord Soth! One of my all time favorite characters from any D&D setting.
Jason Kirkner I'm totally using lord Soth as a compelling reason to turn my players toward working for an evil faction
I use lord soth waaay too often gotta love him
The ONE thing about skill challenges that I feel like annoys spell casting players is that they HAVE some spells that could completely trivialize a skill challenge, but technically aren't allowed to use them under these rules because they aren't skills. For example, someone with dimension door or teleport just teleporting out of the collapsing tower, or using charm person on the guy running away that you are chasing. Even if you associate it WITH a skill like arcana, they have such a dramatic effect ON the skill challenge that I feel like in those examples it could potentially end the challenges immediately, which isn't particularly fun or very challenging.
The way I do it is to allow ALL skills including spells. However, casting a spell while running isn't the easiest so I make them harder to cast with arcana checks etc. I think the most important thing is to present a situation (falling roof, running guy etc) and have the players be creative with what their characters can do. If a player comes up with something very clever I sometimes grant them an automatic success. The key is not the die roll but the use of character/abilities.
AdellRedwinters If someone has a spell that solves the challenge, the skill challenge shouldn't even start. If the party is trying to escape the dungeon as it collapses and THEN the wizard remembers he has dimension door, he might be able to guarantee two successes by casting it and bampfing out. Or maybe he's not within 500 feet, and an intelligence check is required to get as close as he can to the exit, granting a success for a low DC. ie if they are chasing someone across the rooftops it they only need 3 successes to get the sorcerer in range, and the bad guy failing his saving throw means they don't need 6 successes total. I agree spells shouldn't be precluded from skill checks, but sometimes it doesn't completely solve the problem.
Agreed exept on the "grant them an automatic success". If it is a REALLY good plan that sounds fairly bullied proof I will set the bar really really low and probably give them advantage but I like there to be some way they might fail simply because they come up with this plan that might be brilliant but they are most likely really stressed and only seconds from death so ofcourse they might end up missing or screwing up because of it
I'm personally fine with a spell or feature being used that can end the challenge. If a spellcaster wants to drop a high level spell slot on Gate or Teleport to end an escape sequence then by all means, go for it. High level characters shouldn't be threatened by mundane escapes or have difficulty chasing down an opponent on foot, and so on.
However, one idea to balance it a bit is to say that any action, outside of using a relevant skill check, automatically accumulates a failure. This means that whatever spell they're using better have a high chance of instantly winning the challenge. This can be explained any number of ways in context. For example, casting a spell may require the caster to slow down or stop during that escape sequence, accumulating a failure.
This still allows for the use of spells, but provides some trade-off, some cost-benefit so that it's not ALWAYS better to cast a spell then it is to try and make a check. Casters will think twice about casting Charm Person on the target they're chasing, because the target making the save means it costs the party a failure.
That type of skill challenge would only occur after the players fail to stop it, if the wizard sleeps sheltering target there was no reason to start the dramatic chase sequence. So in as way you are right, but personally I see it as crunch time, if and it w player fails to successfully stop the challenge for two failures then why not installs on a little extra DC to that arcana sleep Check, (The Wizard opens a dimensional door in front of the thiefs path but the their, pumped with Adrenaline nimbly rolls around the door and continues his path)
So all in all, skill challenges are the Quick Time Event's of D&D. I can't wait to try it!
Thanks for the video Matt! I go back to thinking about skill challenges every now and again and I can see the utility in playing through scenarios narratively as opposed to laying-out a grid and doing really tedious turn-based movement, but I also wish there was a smoother transition into a skill challenge without announcing a mini-game and it's specific rules. -Ryan
Nerdarchy well put.
Critical role has used a hourglass in the past. When the hour glass comes out the party knows its a skill challenge. It also adds a layer of urgency since if the time runs out the skill challenge fails as well.
They used this in the sphinx's episode.
Teeon Highhill I love the tension and sense of urgency it adds to a skill challenge. However, sometimes I want to use a skill challenge without an hourglass, and I want the transition to feel smooth.
I like how it's announce as a mini-game. My friends and I all enjoy Mario Party though so it's fun to transition into that state personally. To each is own.
I think if you create multiple natural elements happening simultaneously... like winds while crossing a bridge over lava or water... they only need be announced when they happen... thusly no mini-game specific rule metagaming.
Maaaaaaaan. I just got permission from my Drama teacher to run a small game of D&D as an improv exercise! I can't wait to give a full report of my findings on the subreddit later.
Five years late, but I’m curious how it went.
Give us a damn update!
that sounds awesome!
So I just started Critical Role the other day (which isn't why I'm here, I've been subbed for a while) and am only a few episodes in. A smile appeared on my face while I was watching episode two or three, though, as I glanced over to the chat room and saw "MattColville is one of us!" It was a cool little thing to see. Anyway, carry on
Hah, you'll have a lot of hours of the game to catch-up on! Enjoy! -Ryan
What sort of RPG celeb orgy is this! Colville, Mercer AND Nerdarchy all in one place! :D
Ethan Berry might I recommend watching the previous episodes at 1.25 speed? It will save you well over 40 hrs over the course of the number of episodes you have in front of you, and it does not diminish the quality of the show.
That's an excellent idea, actually. Thank you so very much, kind stranger
You are very welcome. It is something I learned 1/2 way through my binge to catch up to the live shows and there were only like 30 episodes when I started. I just wish someone had told me this trick sooner. Pass the idea along whenever you see a critter trying to catch up.
Something a lot of people forget about 5e skill checks is that according to the rules, there are no crits or crit fails. This is the inbuilt protection from non-proficient characters succeeding in challenges they have no place understanding where proficient characters fail when for all intents and purposes they should know or be capable of this stuff.
So if your party's slave gladiator rolls a nat 20 on a DC 25 arcana check, he's not gonna suddenly know about this obscure amulet. Maybe I'd throw him a bone as to the vague nature of the thing, saying something like "You don't know anything about the amulet, but the feeling you get from being around it reminds you of the sponsor to one of your greatest rivals, whom you remember wearing something very similar." Which opens up a dialogue about this 'greatest rival' and his sponsor. Maybe this rival had an enchanting gaze that froze-up most other gladiators, but you heard about it beforehand and knew not to look him in the eyes. Now the players have a piece of the puzzle, a similar amulet imbued someone with an enchanting gaze. But it's certainly not enough to start making guesses.
But at the same time I'm under no obligation reward nat 20's on skill checks. So if I can't come up with an interesting and compelling reason for him to have a cryptic clue into the nature of the thing on the spot, I'll just tell him he doesn't know anything.
On the other side of the spectrum, even a mediocre a wizard who is proficient in Arcana, but only has a +2 Int modifier and a +2 proficiency bonus, can roll a nat 1 on some DC 5 Arcana check and still know the answer. Maybe I'd string him along a bit, but he still gets the important info. "You haven't seen this spell in years, so it takes a second to recognize that effect. But obviously it's Prestidigitation, a staple of wizards everywhere."
Of course the inbuilt system it isn't perfect. I for one will be a lot more lenient on dispensing hints or small boons for characters that are actually proficient in a skill they attempt to use, but fail regardless. If our mediocre wizard fails to identify the amulet, I'll still say "You don't recognize this amulet whatsoever. But to your honed senses, the magic radiating from this thing clearly rings Fey." While if that gladiator didn't crit he'd only get a "You study the amulet. You don't know what it is, but the strange magic that radiates from it makes you uneasy."
I guess what I'm trying to say is that 5e skill check crits don't auto-succeed, and 5e skill check crit-fails don't auto-fail. So if you don't have the modifiers and bonuses to hit a DC, you simply can't successfully do the thing.
Had my first session of a new campaign earlier this week and I ran a skill challenge to help clean up the tavern after a fight. The stakes were literally just a free meal, but it ended up being really fun, especially for a first session. We learned so much about each character by how they chose to help. The artificer got carried away "upgrading" a broken stool, the wizard stood in one place casting prestidigitation from a distance so he wouldn't get dirty, the monk had a sweeping montage right out of Karate Kid, and the cleric ended up in the kitchen making friends with the cook. They did some investigating of the crime scene on the side, so it moved the story forward too. Highly recommend low stakes skill challenges to get your PCs out of their shell.
I love having a player describe how their character would attempt something, or how that skill could help in that situation. I believe it makes them feel more involved and more invested in what’s going on.
This was the most helpful video I've ever watched as DM. It's one of the greatest humps in DMing progress how to make non-combat mechanically interesting. Thank you so so much.
Love skill challenges now Matt. Thanks so much. My players love it too.
What i do, is i write down everything they do and try to do, and then read the entire sequence up for my players in the end.
Thank you for making all of these. They helped me to do a good job on my first time DMing, and they are a continual help in my working to improve how I run the game for my players. This series and the fact that there are dinosaurs in the monster manual (which I have surprisingly never used) were the biggest contributors to my drive to DM. Keep up the good work Matt!
Used this with my party last weekend. They loved it! Turned hours of boring and difficult investigation to 10 minutes of a very creative and fun challenge. Definitely will be using this more to make the boring parts of D&D more interesting.
I watched this video months ago and I just rewatched it to refresh myself on the rules for my game tonight where my players will be escaping from a volcano using a skill challenge. Thank you for this video it is going to make this experience so much more cinematic!
This sounds awesome! It sounds like a great way to let players have their other skills shine. I had one player say "Well I guess a shoot my boy again since that's really all I do" which really bummed me out and has had me trying to plan more dynamic encounters since.
This is easily my favorite thing I've learned from this channel. It's great to finally see non-combat challenges get some of the same granular treatment that combat gets in D&D. I try to include at least one in every adventure or dungeon I run. Thanks, Matt.
Thank you for making this video. Your videos have been an amazing resource for me. They gave me the confidence to *run* D&D for the first time last weekend. I have been playing with some friends in college for almost 2 years, but I had never been a DM. I built a small town and created a small dungeon in the nearby forest, and my party had a blast. Thank you for the advice and commitment to convincing people to run D&D.
Also, have you thought about crowd funding print runs of your books? You could bring the price down for the reader and increase what you make on your writing if you could fund a big enough pre-order- just a thought! -Ryan
With the success of Matt's kickstarter, I wouldn't be entirely surprised if Matt uses MCDM to publish his novels - either using profits from the Strongholds and/or Warfare books, or crowdfunding them as you suggested.
I never knew about this.. I've actually got some great ideas to integrate this into my campaigns, thanks a bunch :D
My game is about to start, came here for a recap, and that monologue in the beginning just put me in the mood yo. LOVE this guy
I know this is months old, but with the holidays I'm going through a D&D drought right now and your explanation of how to do skill challenges in 5E and love for them is perfect and perfectly timed. I just found this, and now I've subscribed. Well done and thank you.
"new to your channel - came across your videos on different player types and rail-roading vs sandbox. That second was VERY entertaining, btw and had to share it with my group. Skill challenges are something that DnD has needed for a long time and really like your interpretation of it. I had to half-wing those when I ran them. I developed an allergy to hit points, spell slots, levels and classes and now run a more Savage game, in a system that is more friendly the concept of such things as skill challenges. There's even a simple mechanic for it. . However, I do play in a couple of DnD games and I think I'd like to see more skill challenges like the kind you've described. You can run skill challenges in just about any non-combat situation; researching information about a type of demon they've never seen before, convincing a group of Orc soldiers that the new boss really is worse than the old boss and should be fired (this happened in my game), figuring out how to shut down a magical warning system (might happen in my game), banishing a corpse-nado back to . . . where-ever corpse-nados come from. When skills are involved that some characters may not have, you can pepper the mix with combatants trying to stop them.
Like, when I ran my portal challenge, I had demons trying to swarm the gate from the other side. When they actually failed the challenge, I took a break for pizza, when into my backroom and brought out the Balor mini - the one with the whip. This time, the battle-cleric stopped battling and helped the wizard. This time, they were racking up successes and the portal was getting smaller. But. The Balor had grabbed the ankle of the barbarian with his whip was trying to pull him through. The Barbarian made his second Dex check (Agility in my game) was able to get his glaive across the mouth of the portal, and he used that to keep from being pulled in . . . the portal was still getting smaller. Now, he had to pull himself out of the mouth of the portal, or be cut in half, or be pulled into a plane of the abyss . . . and Balors are pretty strong . . . no character's died or had to change thier residence to the abys, but some players were sweating . . . lol
Just noticed Elric of Melniboné on the back wall. Nice
💙
Deposing a king can also be a skill challenge, in a sense that players need a number of successful plays/schemes before three failures. But the schemes themselves can be mini challenges or quests. For instance bribing a prime minister, infiltrating the crown's guard, getting the blueprints of the castle, finding a rightful heir, obtaining a god's blessing, making friends in the underground resistance movement... And then each failed scheme comes with a drawback that makes it more difficult - maybe failing to procure an heir alienates the prime minister so his price goes up, maybe the resistance withdraws it's support in finding the blueprints, etc.
It's basically taking the structure and mechanics of a skill challenge and scaling it to run grander schemes. The whole campaign can be some sort of skill challenge, and planning it like one can help immensely. Tune the quests to player's proficiencies (an "arcana quest" to research a ritual, a "thievery quest" to steal a magic orb, etc.) and plan success and failure outcomes for each. Like how clearing an old keep of goblins gives players a stronghold but if then they fail to save a nearby town from undead they won't be able to hire help to man the keep.
It's a great desing tool for a DM, the best thing to come out of any rulebook.
This is my favorite video of yours and I've seen almost all of them. It's so full of real, implementable examples.
I think brewing potions could be a skill a challenge. You may need arcana to recall something about potions, nature to recall something about the ingredients, slight of hand to carefully put in a volatile ingredient, perception to make sure it the potions looks/smells right, maybe even investigation to think on your feet to see if one ingredient could substitute for another.
Except there is already rules for potions. For Health potions it is basically: proficiency with herbalist kit, half the potion's worth in gold and time based on the potion's level (1 entire day to 4 weeks). In fact, this apply to most non magical crafting (numbers vary).
@@Remosaur I know, but I find those rules to be pretty limited. As he notes at the beginning 5e technically already had a way to escape from the collapsing dungeon, but it wasn't as interesting as a skill challenge. Having potion recipes, and a brewing process makes the players more involved. This way you could also have the number of successes vs failures make a difference instead of just pass/fail. Maybe if they get two failures the potion has a glitch to it.
I'm a huge fan of skill challenges, but the dynamic nature can be intoxicating. the last skill challenge i ran ended up with the bard going pied piper with a swarm of magical rats from the deck of an airship. the players started out way excited, but the challenge seemed to ebb near the end. I think what i was missing was the rule that a successful roll eliminates that skill from the player's options. I ended up ad libbing a bit too far into action movie in a campaign that until that point had been more mystery genre. I love skill challenges but I think it's possible to play too fast and loose with them if you're not careful. that "one success per skill per character" house rule is exactly the sort of thing I love learning from this channel. definitely going to use that to rein in things in the future to create more situational diversity instead of extremism.
Krymson kyng +
This was an absolutely fantastic video. Thank you for explaining the skill challenge so well. And for telling us about your additions to it. You have earned yourself another subscriber.
Some really good stuff here. Totally useful. Thanks a bunch man. Keep up the great work.
Would you consider allowing a bard, with their Jack of all Trades feature, to attempt any skill in a skill challenge?
I am obviously 1) not who you are asking for advice from and 2) more than a little late, but I would say to an extent. For skills that they aren't directly proficient in, make it a little harder (something like DC +2), or make their reasoning be based on something that would really make sense for specifically their character to think of (i.e. backstory/in-campaign experience). Yeah, you have a chance with a little of everything, but because of that, you're gonna have trouble succeeding with any of them because they aren't your specialty
I'd say yes. It's a class feature, after all, they should be allowed to use it.
I'd love to have the High lvl NPC video next.
your videos really inspire and motivate me to be better in my own DM'ing, Matt!! I absolutely love your content!! Thanks for all you do for us!
I am so going to use this. Exceptional description and narrative of the events (Collapse of Black Keep). Great tutorial on the steps to consider (and rules to apply) as you move through a skill challenge. I took notes (after watching this video 5 times....needed to frequently pause in order to maintain my ear-to-Matt speak ratio suitable enough for my mind to track and interpret.
This sounds fantastic, I love the idea. Question: when a character "mitigates" a failed skill check (e.g. the falling boulder example), does the initial failure still count towards the 3 required to fail the whole challenge?
Yes, I think so in his games
Honestly, the biggest complaint I ever heard about skill challenges from players was actually the idea that the DM telling them they were now in a skill challenge actually made the game worse for them because they wanted that more natural feeling.
I tell my players "that will be quite a challenge" or "that's a bit challenging".
Thank you so much for this!! I love the idea of skill challenges, but I haven't been able to figure out how to make them exciting and not-tedious. Until now, it''s been "The building is falling down around you! Give me a DEX check to see if you can dodge the falling rocks! Okay, you made it a bit further out. Give me another DEX check to see if you can dodge them again." Wash, rinse and repeat. This is great! I like the idea of making the players come up with creative application of their skill proficiencies, and limiting them to one attempt per skill. I also like how you let the players help each other by applying their skills to save another players from their failure. This is so helpful!
Phenom! This is how we do things more often than not in the games I play in regularly - as long as we ask, the DMs are willing to see if it's something to which a given skill applies, and we can only try once. It makes for a more inclusive game and gives people at the table who aren't as active about their role-playing something different to do out of combat.
Good stuff! Thanks for sharing!
This was interesting, i was trying to find a way to make my players help a crew navigate the ship amongst reefs through a storm and wasn't sure on how to , but i would say something else i like to allow my spell casters to dodge ability checks with spells, or if they are trying to use the spells in a way it is not the original intended way then they do an arcana or religions check.
I would say that attempts at skills players aren't proficient in would have a higher DC. Alternatively, it's the same DC, but they'd only complete it halfway and will have to succeed twice in order to count as an accumulated success. I suggest this, 'cos if the objective was creative thinking, then they would have to get creative with their descriptions / solutions to the problems in order to count. It also involves players who don't have a lot of skills or have skills that don't seem relevant to the current situation. Might I also recommend having them roll initiative to prevent skill-spamming? They have their turn, so if they fail, it's up to the next party member to up the slack. Then have an initiative roll for the challenge itself that would present random (or rolled, if you have time to make a table) complications like falling debris or a random cabbage cart seller getting in front of the players trying to run away.
Thanks for the great video! It really helped me out with writer's block. I think the examples that you gave would work amazingly well for our group.
Amazing video, extremely helpful. I have always struggled making sessions interesting and engaging without just resorting to combat. But this mechanic is definitely being added to my repertoire and I have a feeling it will help a lot!
Not 100% sure, but I believe Matt Mercer's ressurrection rule is something like that: It's a DC 10 + nothing that he makes.
Anybody can help in the ritual doing something meaningful either to the ritual or related to the person and making a skill test based on the action (DC depends on the action and how helpful it would be).
Each success lowers the dc in 2 and each failure rises in 1. At the end he roll and, if the soul accept the ressurrection, he comes back to life if it's a success.
yes, this is correct. However, each success lowers the dc by 3, not 2. The actual roll isn't very difficult, but the challenges to "help the ritual" can be low or extremely high DCs depending on what they are doing - as determined by Matt Mercer.
It's also limited to three attempts at aid and each attempt to aid must be a unique skill
Also, he's told us that every time a person dies and is brought back, the DC increases by 1.
So standard DC is 10, but lets say character X already died 2 times before. His DC is now 12.
I've only been DMing for about a month, only been playing a little under a year.
...Holy crap, have I been playing nearly a year? Sorry, as I was saying, I had never heard of this before, the DM I play under has never done one of these--and she's one of my players when I DM, so it'll be cool to see how she reacts to this. Thanks!
Love that you put a skill challenge video, after I did one this past weekend. Makes me feel better though afterwards that it appears I did everything close to how you do it. Def going to snatch up the lower level characters delaying "godzilla" for the ally characters. Keep up the great work matt
Arcana check in a moonlight chase? Make the player choose a spell they have available to them at the time, that they think would work to distract or slow down the person they're chasing, then make the roll. Regardless of whether or not they succeed the arcana check, they use the spell slot.
I have been using my own little ripoff of Matt's skill challenge rules for quite a while now and I always find myself coming back to watch this video when I'm prepping a skill challenge for my party
Not sure if anyone posts this but Mr mercer stated that the resurrection dc starts at 10 and every success is minus 2 and every fail is +3 I believe, then mercer rolls a straight d20 and if it beats the DC the character is resurrected
Ryan Gallo wait what
@@TheLegendaryBeta usually he lets them do three skill checks, so if the dc is 10 at start and the first one succeeds it becomes an 8 dc, then someone fails it becomes an 11 dc, then the last person succeeds it becomes a 9 dc. then he rolls a d20 and if its 9 or higher, the person is resurected, if its 8 or lower the person is gone for good.
The greatest video on skill challenge ever. I've used this multiple times to get inspiration
This is the most inspiring video i've seen in ages. I love murder/mystery style adventures. Imagine investigating or gathering evidence as a skill challenge. OMG the ideas...
As a note Matt, Mercer's resurrection rules are that the DC starts at 10 (50/50) 3 skill checks are determined by what the players do, if one succeeds the DC is lowered by 3 and a fail ups the DC by 1. The DM makes the final roll, no bonuses.
You had a similar idea but his is much more forgiving so as to not make resurrection difficult per say, but it adds tension to the story.
Hope that helped in anyway, loved the video!
The DC is 10 + the number of times you have died
I only have one question, what about bards, with their half proficiencies.
Todd Walton I would love to hear matt's opinion, but here is what I would do in that situation. I'd allow them to use their skills that they have 1/2 proficiencies in, but for those skills I would up the DC of the check by 2 or 3 because they aren't fully trained in that skill.
Jonah Brame I can see that or have them role at disadvantage maybe. while they're good at most thing but in the chaos going on they're not as sure as the trained people.
Or just give it to them. Let them role it, its a class feature it will make them feel cool being able to use all the skills like the bard was intended to do
All three of these are great options
a really good idea. I've tried doing this in the past but giving a player 1 chance to use the skill is an excellent addition. definitely going to use this in future
Mat, thank you for making these videos. they have definately made me a better DM, and my players thank you.
To me, it seems that skill challenges would be very cool in cases of "narrative bottlenecks" that is, events where the players have no other choice but to complete the task. I would never use a skill challenge to resolve a task as open ended as "gain access to the castle keep" because to me it seems that it robs players of their agency.
It is definitely only used when the group is locked in and engaged with the situation. Like maybe a skill challenge can be used when in a hold's court trying to explain what happened. The characters don't have the freedom to leave the area an are engage in the discussion. Having the group try to provide evidence using multiple skills is the way to go. It's basically a single skill check on crack that solves the problem out right. So only use it in a scenario calls for a definite solution that's unavoidable. Usually resolving something is more bottlenecked than starting something, so I do agree with you.
Arthur Hoffert i
Hey Matt,
How do you handle spellcasters who want to use their spells as a part of the skill challenge?
Love your videos!
I would allow the spell as long as it can be cast in less than 1 round and the PC cannot look it up, they need to have it ready whenever they arrive at the point to roll for the next skill challenge. I push that all of the time, I mandate a spellbook or spell cards with everything for what the spell does so that the PC does not have be looking things up. Just to keep things flowing.
This video was very interesting. I knew of skill challenges but I didn't really think of using them outside of resurrecting a character. It's really cool that it captures a more drawn out dramatic scene. Thanks for sharing your insights :)
Thank you so much this is perfect for catching the last lightning train!
Hey Matt, great video! I was wondering if a skill challenge would be a good method for doing a massive battle sequence for a group of players, rather than treating it as if it were combat with hundreds of npc's and enemies?
I think that would be a great way. It's basically how the do big battles in adventure movies. Think; Legolas surfing down the stairs on the shield. It's a collection of individually heroic moments while the battle rages around them> And as they succeed in key moments, the battle turns in their favour. (Or not of course)
Stealing this!
Now there’s a whole book that answers your exact question. Kingdoms & Warfare has been released!
All I can't think as I watch this is 'Skill checks, QTEs for D&D.'
An important difference is that, instead of the DM telling the players what "button" to mash, the players get to choose the button and how to use it.
I know I'm a year late to your comment. Just wanted to add in my nickel for anyone else perusing the comments. :)
Xaos Bob and i'm 6 months late to your comment but i just wanted to say i appreciate your input
@@CrookieMonsterr I'm 11 months late to your comment, and commenting solely to help keep the passing time.
A year out and yes this is somewhat true but I agree what the guy said 2 years ago, 2 years after the original comment.
This is amazing! This is like adding an entire new way to play! I am definitely going to make a skill challenge for my players!
One thing I love to do and still challenges is allow players to use their class features and even cast spells to either reduce the difficulty or allow them to use a skill that might not otherwise be applicable. Like maybe intimidate won't work in a chase scene where they're trying to escape a horde of undead, but if the cleric uses turn on dead and expends a use of channel Divinity, then I would let them make an intimidate check as they try and use their force of will to push back the horde to allow the party to make some progress
I would love to see how i should run a npc that joined the party. I am quite new on the DMing and i just introduced a goblin that with a great diplomacy check joined their party. Now I was thinking to do the conversations from that character but when a fight breaks out aslong they take good care of him, they can choose what he will do. Does that seem like a good approach?
+david jansen yeah! I think I basically do the same thing.
Matthew Colville, so I've been using skill challenges and playing with them allot since watching this video about s year ago. What do you think of adding an initiative roll? Ive been playing with it in some situations to judge reaction time and to limit how many players can participate. Ive run into players unrealistically trying to do things, thanks
Matt thank you so much for your videos! They're incredibly helpful!
I love this mechanic! Thanks for explaining it, Matthew. I'm definitely gonna use it in my game.
Find it odd no one mentioned that Skill Challenges were introduced in Star Wars Saga (3.75 ruleset that beats the pants off 3.5) iirc
It specifically said to: treat it as a combat encounter; make every player contribute before you go back to a previous one; announce they are in a skill challenge (no different from calling for initiative).
Been in love with the things ever since.
Yeah, the Saga Edition Skill Challenges were introduced in the Galaxy of Intrigue sourcebook. This came out AFTER the 4E Skill Challenges system was introduced and actually expanded and refined the 4E skill challenges system. I use a lot of the Saga Edition tweaks when I use skill shallenges in my games.
Could a skill challenge be used for an investigation type scenario? For example, if your players are trying to find a nest of baddies in the sewers, could the same sort of mechanic be used for such a thing?
Absolutely! Arcana to detect the presence of spells they used to hide or protect themselves. History to remember this part of the sewers are traditionally used by bandits, etc...
Matthew Colville Thanks! This video kinda paints the picture that this mechanic is for high intensity scenes, and I wasn't sure this would be appropriate
Matthew Colville Hey Matt, I just want to say that your videos are a godsend to a new DM like me, I'm about to start my first session using the Lost Mines of Phandelver, but there's one thing I'm not sure on and that's making the maps. We are all playing online through a game called Tabletop simulator, and it has a cool feature that lets me import images onto the table that way I don't have to draw anything. But I'm not sure if I should just have a basic map for them, or take my time and build it out with the these special dungeon tiles the game comes with.
I’ve come back to this video to say: this one probably revolutionised my game. Thank you, Matt. Deploying these challenges with a degree of nuance and discernment has lead to some parts of our game that are probably far more tense than combat, and more evocative than roleplay with my NPCs. I skipped 4e due to my life getting in the way, so I wasn’t very conscious of this stuff.
Fantastic stuff.
This was so well explained and I appreciated all the examples! Thanks so much!
I like the rules you've come up with for Skill challenges Matt and will probably implement them in my own game. I have some questions though about your rules on Skill Checks only if you're proficient outside of Skill Challenges.
-What happens if no one is proficient in that Skill and it might be a necessary skill check?
-Do you apply this rule to 5e Bards? If so, does that not make THEM feel not special with their Jack of All Trades ability to add 1/2 their proficiency bonus to untrained skills?
-Do you not then think that that trained only rule in Skill challenges is slightly unfair to those characters who have a low amount of proficient skills, like Barbarians, while giving a better chance to Rogue, Ranger and Bard characters who have a high number of trained skills? I kind of get it outside skill challenges cuz fighters fight and rogues rogue but when a specific instance of Skill Challenge comes up?
James B. I do belive Matt mentions that he typically runs games for 5 or 6 people. with that many players you need to share the spotlight. proficiency requirements force the spotlight to be shared.
Bards are proficient in a lot of skills and they could roll those.
skill challenges are going to be easier for more skilled characters but that's ok. it's when they are supposed to shine. combat is great and all but seeing the fighter move a heavy stone to get the characters to safety reinforces to everyone who that character is. it's similar to Matt's explanation of npcs and their role in showing the players how their characters are perceived. the same thing is done here with skill challenges. hnnossa (spelling) uses her nature skill to tell the air currents. this shows everyone including Anna that her barbarians knowledge of nature is a part of her character.
Dave Nummer I understand that Bards and Rogues and Rangers get a lot of proficiency compared to other classes but Bards specifically have a feature (Jack of All Trades) where they can add half their proficiency bonus to ALL their skills, what is the point of that feature if he rules, both in Skill Challenges and outside them, that you must be proficient in a skill to use it? Hence why I'm asking how he rules for it in relation to bards.
James B. jack of all trades applies to skills the bard is NOT proficient in. and outside of a skill challenge use whatever skill you want proficient or not.
bards start with 3 skills and it keeps them in line with other skill based classes. rogues a little more but if a bard got to roll on every skill due to jack of all trades that gives the player an unfair advantage.
that being said do what works for you and your group.
This can be easily solved by knowing your party. Build encounters tailored to their skill set. Or you can change on the fly if they're taking a beating. He also mentioned he has multiple solutions for one skill check, but only gives them a few out loud.
However, that could also prove to be something that highlights weakness in their group if you want to play with a more "balanced party" mindset. Your players can look at solutions to solve that problem if they get out. It can create tension and provide goals for players after the encounter. There is a feat in 5th Edition to get a few skills for a reason ;) Plus most systems support gaining proficiency when training with someone.
Your goal when creating a skill challenge isn't to make something where they're guaranteed to pass, it's to make something that's challenging. That can involve exploiting your party's blind spots. But it's also important to make it meaningful. Punishing them SOLELY for not having a particular skill in the party is a tad petty, but using it as a way to drive narrative can be fun.
Dave Nummer Everyone seems to be misunderstanding me or not reading what I'm actually asking in relation to the video. Matt specifically said that in his games, a character cannot attempt a skill check unless they are proficient in that skill EVEN OUTSIDE SKILL CHALLENGES (10:40). The same way in Pathfinder you can't attempt certain skill checks because they require you to be trained in them (the Knowledge skills). Jack of All Trades is a Bard feature that allows Bards to add half their proficiency to skills they are not trained in. I've been wondering how Matt correlates those two rulings.
Greetings from greece.
Has anyone ever told you thath you look a little bit like a werewolf?
Can I use your face as the main antagonist on my next session?
(love your videos, keep up the good work)
This was extremely useful. I could never find a useful way to implement skill challenges untill watching this. Thanks! :)
This is exceptionally cool! I really like this! I've got a cool adventure in mind that this could really easily fit in! Thanks a ton!
Mathew Mercer skill challenge when they were fleeing Vaselhiem vault. geekandsundry.com/critical-role-episode-16/ Critical Role Episode 16. 2:40:00
So, the old 'keep/tower falls down when the BBEG dies for no reason' trope. I hate it. I despise it. And I don't even like it.
Kalarel is a necromancer and the Dark Tower was built out of the bodies he'd collected. It was held up by his will, it was part of the ritual.
Actually, I suspected some such, as I recall your mentioning that he was using bodies to fuel the tower's growth in an earlier episode. My comment was more for those who aren't aware that it was a trope and might try using it with those who do. The groans can be horrendous! ;)
Dont worry about it too much when people are trying to have fun. The trick isn't to never use tropes, its to use tropes in a unique way so they don't feel like tropes, they feel like something that you're a part of.
When its done that way, they can be great.
That's the point of tropes, or rather, the _reason_ why they became tropes. Because they WORK. It just becomes a problem when they're overused and used unoriginally.
Good gosh! I was listening to this dramatic tale and suddenly realized I was literally on the edge of my seat, and hanging on every word. I was totally captivated. Dang, Matthew, you can tell a story!
Fantastic video explaining one of my favorite mechanics to employ!
something so epic about the monk tanking the falling rocks for the fighter. just such a cool action movie moment.
Loved this video. Opens up a lot of fun game in the game tests.
Yes! I love the skill challenge aspect of 4e and missed it in 5. Good to see you're working at making it useful again.
Excellent video, very informative and helpful. Really good style!
BEST RUNNING THE GAME VIDEO SO FAR!!!
I've been running a dnd recently for a group of new players and getting them to engage with the game is difficult. a lot of times they don't know what to do.
skill challenges the way Matt explained it is perfect for getting players to engage and get in character. using skills in innovative ways to help the group is such a simple formula to putting forth a scenario that is memorable and high paced action.
dnd is known for a 4 mile walk takes 2 minutes but a 2 minute battle takes 4 hours.
I think that this sort of storytelling tool can help be beneficial for dms more focused on storytelling combat and encounters vs the dm that uses more battlegrid style combat and encounters.
Dude this is AMAZING!!! Definitely doing this!
Love this, I'm going to be using this more often in my future games!
I actually did a whole session out of skill challanges. Players in three-leged tower running across spheres chased by 10 000 soldiers of Harmonium (multiverse police basicly). In the best one they throw everything from their kitchen at Harmonium riding giants ostriches. Potatoes, spice and furniture went flying as players were rolling dices and harmonium suffered defeat. Catapults, other leged towers, army defending only way out, all skill challanges. What a wonderful chase that was!
I used this in a pirate themed campaign for running naval combat and it turned out pretty fun.
Explained to them that there are various duties on the ship that help with
maneuvering the ship. Each character could attempt to complete one of those tasks to help the helmsman maneuver into a better position.
It was also kind of an opposed skill challenge, because it was also against the maneuver check for the enemy ship. If the heroes won they were able to maneuver into a more advantageous position and had bonuses to their attacks with the cannons. If it was a tie there was no change and if the enemy ship won the advantage shifter the other way. Two advantages in a row and the other ship wasn’t in a position to fire on them at all.
It was pretty fun and made the combat very dynamic, way more interesting than two ships lined up on a grid trading broadside attacks 😂
I love this video, thank you! Going to be using skill challenges in the future.
if I'm remembering my timeline correctly, WotC's first published use of Skill Challenges was in Star Wars: Saga Edition, which came a year before 4e? so if anyone is interested in more information or ideas regarding Skill Challenges, that's another great resource
Out of all your videos I think this was the most directly useful for me. I added a skill test in my last game and it really helped emulate the tension of an escape. Thanks!