Hi Doug and Whit! You are marvelous! Something for Atem mini last update. The audio delay added is 8 frames and not 4. Thank you for your excellent job!!!
Hey Doug, I record audio with the zoom h5 at wedding reception through the dj board and then I will using my camera to record video. am having delaying synching in post. can u help me fix this issue ? thanks in advance
Thanks Doug! Have you ever run into video-audio sync issues because of a particular display’s input lag? We distribute HDMI via SDI (and then back to HDMI) to six different displays in a small venue. The two big ones are 65” Samsung TVs and the others are smaller PC monitors. The audio goes into a mixer. The problem we’re facing is that the two Samsung TVs have a noticeable lag so the mixer audio is in sync with the other monitors but the big TVs are behind. Worse of it all is that from observation we notice that the input lag is variable. So it’ll start off behind the audio by about 300ms then it’ll get a little better to about 150ms. So it kind of rules out using a fixed delay. Any ideas on how to address this?
All non-CRT displays have at least some input lag. The trick is finding models which keep the delay to a minimum. And then finding which modes keep the delay to a minimum. If you can find a Game mode, enable it. It will shorten the input lag significantly. TVs that are lower end have longer lag than the more expensive ones because they’re using slower electronics to process the signal. TVs which do more processing on the signal will also have longer input lags. And unfortunately, manufacturers aren’t exactly forthcoming with data on input lag.
Hello Dough, what is the best way to measure your delay? I currently use an editig SW which is a little bit overkill to look at the video and audio track. Is there any more efficiant way to measure the frames or ms of delay?
Record some video with a slate or a clap, and then bring it into some editing software. Look for the video frame where the slate/hands come together, then look in the audio track for the sound from the slate/clap, and move your playhead back or forward one frame at a time until you reach the peak of the audio
@@djp_video thanks, this is exactly the way I do it today, I use Danci Resolve and hoped that there is an easier, faster or smarter way, maybe a player which shows the audio track but I was not able to find one. so it's good to see that this is still the way to go. Thanks for your insight.
Hey Doug, random unrelated question. Do you power off your ATEM switches or just leave them on? I have both the original basic ATEM Mini and the Extreme ISO and since they both do not come with a power switch, I'm always left wondering if I should manually unplug them or toss them onto a power strip. What are your thoughts?
I turn them off when I'm not using them. My 2 M/E and TVS are in equipment racks with switched power bars so it's easy to just flip a switch. On those few occasions where I use my ATEM Mini I just plug it in for the duration of the project I'm working on, and unplug it when I'm done. But those are use cases where the switchers are only needed occasionally. You have to weigh factors like whether the device has a fan that is running, because those do wear out over time, and how often you're needing to turn on/off, as the heating/cooling cycles do cause some fatigue in the components. Excessive heat will also shorten the life of electronics.
I could, but there isn't much to say. Most of the time we use picture profile 1, only customizing the knee controls (which I will cover in a video at some point).
You can fix delays even within video signals but it's available in software switchers mostly.. But how to sync video signals itself and then video with audio correctly? I did it everytime by looking at the mouth or via some sync videos (I will play sync video on screen/smartphone and I point all cameras and 1 mic to that video) but.. is there any better option how to handle this more accurate? It would be cool to have some option to sync multiple different cameras (mainly becuase of GoPRO) somehow more easily.
@@djp_video Ah, yeah. that's the option too, i forget about it. Thanks. :) I meant some quick way how to do it when there is no much time to experiment but... that's the issue that sometimes we are in a hurry but it's only our problem. :D
hey, again I have a question regarding camera control for the constellation 8k. i have 10 black magic mini cameras and i have the output lines but I would like to set up camera control on all the cameras, though I don't have 10 available outputs/inputs for all the cameras. is there a way i can control all the cameras and assign them on one cable? Thanks and i enjoyed the video!
All you'd need is a distribution amplifier to split the SDI signal. The output signal going from the switcher to the cameras is identical, so a simple active splitter will take care of it for you.
I just wanted to mention that there are decent audio mixers available for $1,500 with output delay built in. I am thinking of the Yamaha TF Series and the A&H QU line. You have to use a matrix out on the TF Series to have output delay available, but it's there. I suspect that a portion of the Atem mini users will be churches, which generally would have an audio mixer at or above this price point.
@@djp_video my small church upgraded to the A&H Qu16 in 2019, then added BMD ATEM TVS HD and recording to the Hyperdeck mini in 2020, and low and behold as soon as we were recording to the BMD there was the audio sync problem. Prior we were just using a Canon camcorder for everything. Luckily I found the delay settings in the Qu16 and put the delay on just the output going to the recording. I still have to work with it a bit since we have not had many services during Covid but it's an easy fix if you have such a digital mixer.
Hi Doug big fan your channel. Ive been using the atem mini since Nov 2019. I can’t find the real issue around my audio delay. I’ve watched numerous videos on the Audio/ video sync, tried every different scenario to isolate the issue. I’ve even done all the tests and find the longer I stream with the atem mini the worse the delay gets even when trying to correct with the built in delay option, this delay works great for recording but livestream is not the same. I do home and remote streaming for events sport events church etc, I have a very powerful laptop specs Alienware A51m, I’ve come to the conclusion the following could be the reason ( note I have tried all basic fixes to sort the delay) 1- I’ve been told Wifi seems to have a greater affect on delay from dropped packets compared to wired streams. Some remote locations require wifi 2 - My camera Panasonic HC VX 985 4k could be the issue NO SDI just HDMI 5m to 10m length cables I’m thinking about get the Behringer shark FBQ 100 to see if that would have an affect.and make things better. I also use vmix which has its own built in audio delay but like I said these options work perfect when recording and work to a degree when streaming but as the stream goes longer like 2 hours or more the delay gets worse. I honestly think it’s ether the Atem mini or depends on upload bandwidth. I’ve also encountered the video delayed and the audio ahead of the picture. It maybe I have low end gear for the outcome I want to achieve for live streaming. Apologies for the long message just a bit over it as clients rely on my service. Thank you to you both for the livestream series much appreciated .👍👍
That sounds more like audio drift than delay. Are you bringing the audio into your computer through the ATEM or through another source? If you use different sources they do tend to go out of sync over time.
Doug Johnson Productions through the atem mic input 1 or 2. I have tried embedded audio from the camcorder but still a drift or delay overtime. I use a rode wireless go with a handheld adapter through Atem mic input 2 is my usual work flow. I do notice if I unplug the mini the audio is back ion sync.
Doug Johnson Productions hey Doug i didn’t try obs as I’ve already invested in the 4k Vmix package however I did a test to see if the atem mini was really the culprit and see if there was a sync problem over time. After 1hr 22mins of streaming and doing a clap test periodically through out the stream I notice in the fb stream health there was a sudden drop in mbs and audio bit rate. I did the clap test and my video was head of the sound rather than the sound delayed. So I decided to unplug the atem mini power socket to reset while still keeping the stream going through Vmix, I powered up the atem again and reconnected the camera input to vmix the sound and video was perfectly in sync. I’m not 100% sure but other YTubers have notice a drift over time. I’ll do another test to see if it’s consistent. Thanks again!
I'm not recommending OBS as a replacement for vMix; just as a way to remove a variable from the equation to help narrow down where the problem is coming from.
Hi Doug, Trevor from the Bahamas. Love the new show btw! I’ve used the Shark FBQ100 and it works well but have you tried using the mentioned Behringer VIRTUALIZER 3D FX2000? I believe it has only delay effects and not signal delay (I could be wrong here).
Yes. And I just re-verified on my FX2000 that it can provide the appropriate delay for this type of workflow. The biggest thing to watch out for is that the feedback parameters on the delay effect are set to zero and that the Bass/Treble controls are set to flat (zero).
Great info - thanks Doug and Whit!
Hi Doug and Whit! You are marvelous! Something for Atem mini last update. The audio delay added is 8 frames and not 4. Thank you for your excellent job!!!
Thanks! I discovered that right after we filmed this.
Hey Doug, I record audio with the zoom h5 at wedding reception through the dj board and then I will using my camera to record video. am having delaying synching in post. can u help me fix this issue ? thanks in advance
Thanks Doug! Have you ever run into video-audio sync issues because of a particular display’s input lag? We distribute HDMI via SDI (and then back to HDMI) to six different displays in a small venue. The two big ones are 65” Samsung TVs and the others are smaller PC monitors. The audio goes into a mixer.
The problem we’re facing is that the two Samsung TVs have a noticeable lag so the mixer audio is in sync with the other monitors but the big TVs are behind. Worse of it all is that from observation we notice that the input lag is variable. So it’ll start off behind the audio by about 300ms then it’ll get a little better to about 150ms. So it kind of rules out using a fixed delay.
Any ideas on how to address this?
All non-CRT displays have at least some input lag. The trick is finding models which keep the delay to a minimum. And then finding which modes keep the delay to a minimum. If you can find a Game mode, enable it. It will shorten the input lag significantly.
TVs that are lower end have longer lag than the more expensive ones because they’re using slower electronics to process the signal. TVs which do more processing on the signal will also have longer input lags. And unfortunately, manufacturers aren’t exactly forthcoming with data on input lag.
@@djp_video thanks for the reply and helpful info!
Hardware delay box (DataVideo) or software-based delay (Atem Mini); what is the difference?
Hello Dough, what is the best way to measure your delay? I currently use an editig SW which is a little bit overkill to look at the video and audio track. Is there any more efficiant way to measure the frames or ms of delay?
Record some video with a slate or a clap, and then bring it into some editing software. Look for the video frame where the slate/hands come together, then look in the audio track for the sound from the slate/clap, and move your playhead back or forward one frame at a time until you reach the peak of the audio
@@djp_video thanks, this is exactly the way I do it today, I use Danci Resolve and hoped that there is an easier, faster or smarter way, maybe a player which shows the audio track but I was not able to find one. so it's good to see that this is still the way to go. Thanks for your insight.
Hey Doug, random unrelated question. Do you power off your ATEM switches or just leave them on? I have both the original basic ATEM Mini and the Extreme ISO and since they both do not come with a power switch, I'm always left wondering if I should manually unplug them or toss them onto a power strip. What are your thoughts?
I turn them off when I'm not using them. My 2 M/E and TVS are in equipment racks with switched power bars so it's easy to just flip a switch.
On those few occasions where I use my ATEM Mini I just plug it in for the duration of the project I'm working on, and unplug it when I'm done.
But those are use cases where the switchers are only needed occasionally. You have to weigh factors like whether the device has a fan that is running, because those do wear out over time, and how often you're needing to turn on/off, as the heating/cooling cycles do cause some fatigue in the components. Excessive heat will also shorten the life of electronics.
Hello, How to choose a microphone for the speaker: Sennheiser HSP 2-EW-3 or can I take budget microphones?
With headset microphones, the budget options aren't very good. If you need that type and don't have the budget to purchase, consider renting.
is there a possibility of you talking about picture profiles on Z150? (for live work)
I could, but there isn't much to say. Most of the time we use picture profile 1, only customizing the knee controls (which I will cover in a video at some point).
Would love to see best practices to line up a delay and find out exactly what the delay between cameras you're working with is.
We'll cover more of that in a future episode. This one is there mostly to let people know about the problem and that there are solutions.
You can fix delays even within video signals but it's available in software switchers mostly.. But how to sync video signals itself and then video with audio correctly? I did it everytime by looking at the mouth or via some sync videos (I will play sync video on screen/smartphone and I point all cameras and 1 mic to that video) but.. is there any better option how to handle this more accurate? It would be cool to have some option to sync multiple different cameras (mainly becuase of GoPRO) somehow more easily.
You can record the output and bring it into a video editor to look at it frame by frame to see how much of a delay there needs to be
@@djp_video Ah, yeah. that's the option too, i forget about it. Thanks. :) I meant some quick way how to do it when there is no much time to experiment but... that's the issue that sometimes we are in a hurry but it's only our problem. :D
hey, again I have a question regarding camera control for the constellation 8k. i have 10 black magic mini cameras and i have the output lines but I would like to set up camera control on all the cameras, though I don't have 10 available outputs/inputs for all the cameras. is there a way i can control all the cameras and assign them on one cable? Thanks and i enjoyed the video!
All you'd need is a distribution amplifier to split the SDI signal. The output signal going from the switcher to the cameras is identical, so a simple active splitter will take care of it for you.
I just wanted to mention that there are decent audio mixers available for $1,500 with output delay built in. I am thinking of the Yamaha TF Series and the A&H QU line. You have to use a matrix out on the TF Series to have output delay available, but it's there. I suspect that a portion of the Atem mini users will be churches, which generally would have an audio mixer at or above this price point.
Right. I have both a TF3 and a TF1 myself. I don't mention them here, as this series is primarily targeted at people using lower-end gear.
@@djp_video my small church upgraded to the A&H Qu16 in 2019, then added BMD ATEM TVS HD and recording to the Hyperdeck mini in 2020, and low and behold as soon as we were recording to the BMD there was the audio sync problem. Prior we were just using a Canon camcorder for everything.
Luckily I found the delay settings in the Qu16 and put the delay on just the output going to the recording. I still have to work with it a bit since we have not had many services during Covid but it's an easy fix if you have such a digital mixer.
Soundcraft Si mixers also provide a tunable delay on each input and output channel.
Hi Doug big fan your channel.
Ive been using the atem mini since Nov 2019. I can’t find the real issue around my audio delay. I’ve watched numerous videos on the Audio/ video sync, tried every different scenario to isolate the issue. I’ve even done all the tests and find the longer I stream with the atem mini the worse the delay gets even when trying to correct with the built in delay option, this delay works great for recording but livestream is not the same.
I do home and remote streaming for events sport events church etc, I have a very powerful laptop specs Alienware A51m, I’ve come to the conclusion the following could be the reason ( note I have tried all basic fixes to sort the delay)
1- I’ve been told Wifi seems to have a greater affect on delay from dropped packets compared to wired streams. Some remote locations require wifi
2 - My camera Panasonic HC VX 985 4k could be the issue NO SDI just HDMI 5m to 10m length cables
I’m thinking about get the Behringer shark FBQ 100 to see if that would have an affect.and make things better.
I also use vmix which has its own built in audio delay but like I said these options work perfect when recording and work to a degree when streaming but as the stream goes longer like 2 hours or more the delay gets worse. I honestly think it’s ether the Atem mini or depends on upload bandwidth. I’ve also encountered the video delayed and the audio ahead of the picture. It maybe I have low end gear for the outcome I want to achieve for live streaming.
Apologies for the long message just a bit over it as clients rely on my service.
Thank you to you both for the livestream series much appreciated .👍👍
That sounds more like audio drift than delay.
Are you bringing the audio into your computer through the ATEM or through another source? If you use different sources they do tend to go out of sync over time.
Doug Johnson Productions through the atem mic input 1 or 2. I have tried embedded audio from the camcorder but still a drift or delay overtime. I use a rode wireless go with a handheld adapter through Atem mic input 2 is my usual work flow. I do notice if I unplug the mini the audio is back ion sync.
Try using some different software like OBS to see if it works any better.
Doug Johnson Productions hey Doug i didn’t try obs as I’ve already invested in the 4k Vmix package however I did a test to see if the atem mini was really the culprit and see if there was a sync problem over time. After 1hr 22mins of streaming and doing a clap test periodically through out the stream I notice in the fb stream health there was a sudden drop in mbs and audio bit rate. I did the clap test and my video was head of the sound rather than the sound delayed. So I decided to unplug the atem mini power socket to reset while still keeping the stream going through Vmix, I powered up the atem again and reconnected the camera input to vmix the sound and video was perfectly in sync. I’m not 100% sure but other YTubers have notice a drift over time. I’ll do another test to see if it’s consistent. Thanks again!
I'm not recommending OBS as a replacement for vMix; just as a way to remove a variable from the equation to help narrow down where the problem is coming from.
Hi Doug, Trevor from the Bahamas. Love the new show btw! I’ve used the Shark FBQ100 and it works well but have you tried using the mentioned Behringer VIRTUALIZER 3D FX2000? I believe it has only delay effects and not signal delay (I could be wrong here).
Yes. And I just re-verified on my FX2000 that it can provide the appropriate delay for this type of workflow. The biggest thing to watch out for is that the feedback parameters on the delay effect are set to zero and that the Bass/Treble controls are set to flat (zero).
@@djp_video Ok nice! Thank you for giving back to the community. It's much appreciated!
lol, do we have to do this everytime ;-)