Looks amazing!! I feel like a lot of people don’t realize the benefit to removing trees in terms of how it helps the turf, especially in renovations. Feel like this course is only going to get better each year as it matures and grows into itself
I really liked the old Pine Barrens. It was one of Faz's best IMO. I also liked the low key vibe - no housing, not pretentious, affordable. I'm sure it will be excellent, but wouldn't have minded a restoration either. Thanks for the flyovers!
Played it last weekend. Only hole I didn't like was 13. The mounds into the approach seem contrived. The tree/overgrowth removal makes this course much more playable than Pine Barrens. The greens are massive too.
I used to play Seville in the mid '90's. It's only a few miles away from the old Seville, so it looks very similar to it. Seville was the hardest course I regularly played. I did play Copperhead once as a birthday gift from my step-dad.
Glad they kept the general layout the same and it looks stunning, but I can’t help but think with so many trees taken out, it’s gonna be absolutely scorching hot in the summer.
Was equally hot, if not more so, with no airflow due to too many tree corridors. And the trees will fill in over time to allow for more shade without drastically affecting turf conditions
Just a few quick comments: (1) I like the various playing options on many holes. It will give a lot of variety to the course (2) I like the changes to the last three holes. Much more interesting visually (3) Hole 14 is much more fair. Having fairway run the length of the hole instead of being abruptly cut off at 300 yards is a nice change (4) I'm happy they left hole 15 basically untouched. It's one of the best short par 4s in the US and looks to remain that way (1) I really dislike the removal of so many trees. The trees framed the old layout remarkably well without being punitive for play. I'll reserve judgment until the course is broken in but I'm not enamored with this as it stands (2) Many of the sand features look overly forced and engineered. They "fit" within the new design concept, but it's "too much" aesthetically in my opinion. The old layout blended the grass and sand much more naturally
In regards to your dislike #2, the old design was very much token Fazio. The challenge with many of his designs, as you see across the country on courses he built that haven’t been aggressively maintained, the bunkering features degrade enormously over time. His bunkering really wasn’t sustainable, especially in harsh / heavy rain environments. The “natural” waste areas will continue to stay natural as rains pass through, requiring far less maintenance. And of course 2 very different design styles. When Southern Pines initially reopened, I would say the Franz waste features maybe felt a tad forced, but having just been back to shoot SP, it all feels entirely natural as it has grown in. But I’m also partial to the natural, open style of courses, so Karoo is certainly my vibe. But certainly not for everyone’s preference, like any course. Love your feedback!
Pine barrens was such a sick layout, it will take a few years for this to grow in fully and really mature. This new renaissance of golden age design is awesome but feels slightly gimmicky over the exact old bones of the Fazio gem. I’m surprised they didn’t route an entirely different layout. Shows you how good the routing was. You can’t tell me the new #4 is better, looks like the green was brought down at least 15 feet
Played about a week ago. Will be a beautiful course once it matures. Greens are very difficult. Will need a caddie with local knowledge to help read them to score better.
Heartbroken. My favorite golf course of all time. Over 100 rounds played. I know the Brits like links golf and are used to ugly golf courses but the removal of all those trees which made playing there such a serene experience leaves me very sad. It will now feel like people just walking around on a goat farm staring at each other playing. You have succeeded at putting the barren in Pine Barrens. 😢
Still an incredibly serene setting and experience, and now all overgrowth removed, making for sustainable, excellent and efficient turf conditions a continued reality. And the vistas through the trees around the property are exceptional. Like all restored courses, time will allow it to mature and fill in very nicely. Also, the neglected maintenance on the green and bunker complexes required a radical amount of work. While a few of the holes feel linksy, it is not a links course, nor was done by any Brits. The incredible and timeless work was done by someone incredibly astute and attentive to original design, with sustainability and creativity at the forefront.
You’re not the first person I’ve heard expressing this sentiment. As Jeff says, hopefully, once it begins to mature it will be even better. I really enjoyed playing Pine Barrens and look forward to playing Citrus Farms.
I feel sorry for people who want to feel isolated while playing, not seeing other golfers. Golf for me has always been a social game, a way to make new friends and spend time with old friends. If I wanted to feel the isolation in nature, I’d go camping.
Too early to grade the new course. Very raw and a long way from being mature. I will probably wait at least 12 months before playing as this golf course does not appear ready for public play. Not sure they had to remove that many trees. It appears a little to open and clear to me. I much prefer Andrew Green's approach at Oak Hill. Remove some trees but keep many others hence giving the new or renovated golf course a "mature look". Andrew Green is the gold standard in golf course renovation. Compare Oak Hill to Citrus Farms and you will see what I am saying.
As gorgeous as this is, a lot of new courses are all starting to look exactly like one-another. Same bunker style, same waste areas. The strategy and playability of the course should always remain the number one priority, but I'd like to see some of these up-and-coming architects stop emulating Doak and Coore and Crenshaw and strike out on their own with their own image, or try something different stylistically.
Looks amazing!!
I feel like a lot of people don’t realize the benefit to removing trees in terms of how it helps the turf, especially in renovations. Feel like this course is only going to get better each year as it matures and grows into itself
completely agree
I really liked the old Pine Barrens. It was one of Faz's best IMO. I also liked the low key vibe - no housing, not pretentious, affordable. I'm sure it will be excellent, but wouldn't have minded a restoration either.
Thanks for the flyovers!
Playing here in 10 days. Cannot wait!
Played it last weekend. Only hole I didn't like was 13. The mounds into the approach seem contrived. The tree/overgrowth removal makes this course much more playable than Pine Barrens. The greens are massive too.
I love 13 a ton, it just kicks my butt
Playing tomorrow. Very much looking forward to it.
I used to play Seville in the mid '90's. It's only a few miles away from the old Seville, so it looks very similar to it. Seville was the hardest course I regularly played. I did play Copperhead once as a birthday gift from my step-dad.
Really excited to see what they turned world woods into! thx for the flyovers! Looks amazing
Truly a treat! Will make you wanna go back over and over again
Great flyover, thanks! Playing it next week, and wanted to see what we’re getting into. Very informative!
Absolutely stunning. Long.
Mega long. Played from 6700 on Monday with a 3 club wind, and I’m not a long hitter at all. Hardly ever used an iron lol
Glad they kept the general layout the same and it looks stunning, but I can’t help but think with so many trees taken out, it’s gonna be absolutely scorching hot in the summer.
Was equally hot, if not more so, with no airflow due to too many tree corridors. And the trees will fill in over time to allow for more shade without drastically affecting turf conditions
Looks beautiful. A lot more waste area and a lot less trees
Just a few quick comments:
(1) I like the various playing options on many holes. It will give a lot of variety to the course
(2) I like the changes to the last three holes. Much more interesting visually
(3) Hole 14 is much more fair. Having fairway run the length of the hole instead of being abruptly cut off at 300 yards is a nice change
(4) I'm happy they left hole 15 basically untouched. It's one of the best short par 4s in the US and looks to remain that way
(1) I really dislike the removal of so many trees. The trees framed the old layout remarkably well without being punitive for play. I'll reserve judgment until the course is broken in but I'm not enamored with this as it stands
(2) Many of the sand features look overly forced and engineered. They "fit" within the new design concept, but it's "too much" aesthetically in my opinion. The old layout blended the grass and sand much more naturally
In regards to your dislike #2, the old design was very much token Fazio. The challenge with many of his designs, as you see across the country on courses he built that haven’t been aggressively maintained, the bunkering features degrade enormously over time. His bunkering really wasn’t sustainable, especially in harsh / heavy rain environments. The “natural” waste areas will continue to stay natural as rains pass through, requiring far less maintenance. And of course 2 very different design styles. When Southern Pines initially reopened, I would say the Franz waste features maybe felt a tad forced, but having just been back to shoot SP, it all feels entirely natural as it has grown in. But I’m also partial to the natural, open style of courses, so Karoo is certainly my vibe. But certainly not for everyone’s preference, like any course. Love your feedback!
Pine barrens was such a sick layout, it will take a few years for this to grow in fully and really mature. This new renaissance of golden age design is awesome but feels slightly gimmicky over the exact old bones of the Fazio gem. I’m surprised they didn’t route an entirely different layout. Shows you how good the routing was. You can’t tell me the new #4 is better, looks like the green was brought down at least 15 feet
Played about a week ago. Will be a beautiful course once it matures. Greens are very difficult. Will need a caddie with local knowledge to help read them to score better.
Hole 3 is a 292 yd par 3?! Is that a mistake or am I marking down an automatic bogey?
from the back tees. MANY new courses are putting in 290+ yard par 3's. pretty wild
Heartbroken. My favorite golf course of all time. Over 100 rounds played. I know the Brits like links golf and are used to ugly golf courses but the removal of all those trees which made playing there such a serene experience leaves me very sad. It will now feel like people just walking around on a goat farm staring at each other playing. You have succeeded at putting the barren in Pine Barrens. 😢
Still an incredibly serene setting and experience, and now all overgrowth removed, making for sustainable, excellent and efficient turf conditions a continued reality. And the vistas through the trees around the property are exceptional. Like all restored courses, time will allow it to mature and fill in very nicely. Also, the neglected maintenance on the green and bunker complexes required a radical amount of work. While a few of the holes feel linksy, it is not a links course, nor was done by any Brits. The incredible and timeless work was done by someone incredibly astute and attentive to original design, with sustainability and creativity at the forefront.
You’re not the first person I’ve heard expressing this sentiment. As Jeff says, hopefully, once it begins to mature it will be even better. I really enjoyed playing Pine Barrens and look forward to playing Citrus Farms.
This is an unbelievably bad take
@@jakobkrombholz5945 you misspelled “renovation”.
I feel sorry for people who want to feel isolated while playing, not seeing other golfers. Golf for me has always been a social game, a way to make new friends and spend time with old friends. If I wanted to feel the isolation in nature, I’d go camping.
Seems like A LOT of centerline hazards
Too early to grade the new course. Very raw and a long way from being mature. I will probably wait at least 12 months before playing as this golf course does not appear ready for public play. Not sure they had to remove that many trees. It appears a little to open and clear to me. I much prefer Andrew Green's approach at Oak Hill. Remove some trees but keep many others hence giving the new or renovated golf course a "mature look". Andrew Green is the gold standard in golf course renovation. Compare Oak Hill to Citrus Farms and you will see what I am saying.
As gorgeous as this is, a lot of new courses are all starting to look exactly like one-another. Same bunker style, same waste areas. The strategy and playability of the course should always remain the number one priority, but I'd like to see some of these up-and-coming architects stop emulating Doak and Coore and Crenshaw and strike out on their own with their own image, or try something different stylistically.
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