Thanks for that , I've had one just like that laying in my garage for years and never knew exactly how it works so I'd try to sharpen drill bits by hand and never got good at it .
It's cutting from the top down, instead from the side. I'm going to set mine up in my drill press, using a horizontal spinning grinding wheel, trying to make some kind of spring loaded base so I can back off the drill, so it will only cut in one direction. Wist the belt in the drill, and it will spin the other way. Sometimes, I'm full of crazy ideas, but it keeps me busy.
Hey Dan, I saw you subbed to my new channel today. Thank you sir! I figured I come on over and sub to you too! I have to say I like what I see here. I'll be watching all your stuff. Take care bud.
Instructions say to use a bolt with wingnut as they illustrate in their instructions which you apparently did not refer to. A wingnut allows the base to be readily to adjusted for different length bits and for small adjustments to meet the wheel. Use the "feed screw" for finer adjustments until the entire surface is ground. The way you attached the base it requires a wrench to make adjustments. The drill overhang to the lip rest should be 50% of the bit diameter not 100%. Instructions say "Use of tool in side grinding should only be done with a wheel specifically designed for side grinding and approved by ANSI, OSHA." The "lip rest" should extend "slightly" into the flute of the bit and not as you have shown. Have sharpened many bits with this tool and and find their instructions worth following. You can download instructions by looking up General Tool Drill Grinding Attachment No. 825.
Hey Lester, could you make a video detailing exactly how to use this tool? Specifically how to measure the bit overhang. You really seem to know all about it.
@@bwthor Thanks for your reply Brandon. I've never made a video and expect I wouldn't be be very good at it. See a copy of the instructions at: images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/91YvX8XRHXL.pdf. It illustrates very well how to adjust the tool to the lip rest as well as making other adjustments.
Thanks for sharing Dan. Is there any concern about sharpening the bits on the side of the wheel? I've heard more than once to never sharpen anything on the side of a grinding wheel because it can cause it to crack.
I am switching to a cup wheel. But I imagine it would take a lot of sharpening with this jig to wear a wheel to where it would be compromised. I am guessing its a lawyer induced warning to prevent lawsuits from idiots. Having said that. Bellsaw, I think it was them, tells people not to sharpen on the side but in the instructions for this tool says its OK to do so.
the postage stamp size instructions that came w/mine weren't very helpful . i mounted mine w/trough 3/16 from grinding wheel (indexing pointer barely clears grinding wheel) . i've sharpened several different sized bits , and get good results w/out needing to move the base . hope this might help someone w/initial setup . i do believe that fine tuning the base distance from grinder (fractions of an inch) might make a difference in the size of bit chisel (center) point though .
Is the rotating motion used to operate this jig not going to produce radiused grinds, rather than a flat chisel tip? Surely a jig which held the bit perpendicular to the wheel, at the required angle, and then could be slid forwards and backwards, parallel to the side of the wheel, would produce a better tip?
The motion may cause one to think the radius is greater than it actually is. The bits cut well. If one digs there are patents and plans for more complex jigs if you don't care for this type.
Buenas compañeros,seria posible traducirlo al español pues es un video muy interesante pero yo particularmente me quedo sin ninguna informacion ,un saludo
If you don't bother to read the instructions and then do it incorrectly you get a crap grind like you did!you have to make sure the little finger actually touches the flute cutting edge just below the end cutting edge Both sides otherwise you get two cutting edges that are not parallel to each other, and it will screw up the chisel point.
The don't grind on the side was put in place to protect people. In a commercial environment where you have multiple people using tools it is a good rule. Over time the wheel will weaken and break. In a well run shop somebody would change it. But OSHA is playing it safe here. From a legal standpoint I would be stupid to say yes it is safe. My opinion is that in our shops we are the only one responsible for our safety. This like many other operations in our shops have associated risks. I do not let this stop me from using my tools. The decision is yours
Yeah you should read the directions. 1. The alignment guide that goes against the flute calls for the tip to extend half the diameter of the drill from the end of the tool. The reason for this is to insure that the cutting lip is vertical. 2. The ''feed screw'' is not a feed screw. It is location screw or a stop. It is referred to as a ''feed screw'' in the directions, which is confusing, but it's true purpose is to insure that both cutting lips are exactly the same length. 3. You did properly flip the bit and ground the other side, but you are NOT finished. The cutting edge is level with the trailing edge. The is supposed to be an 8 to 12 degree relief angle so that the trailing edge is lower than the cutting edge. The directions call to create a ''relief'' angle by hand. This is done by dragging the face across the stone starting just behind the cutting edge and dragging the bit upward. That is tricky, and calls for some skill and probably the biggest reason this style of tool gets a bad rap. Grind it sharp and it still doesn't cut and people don't understand why. This tool makes a good edge but it does not give a relief angle. That must be done by other means.
Thank you. I have gotten enough criticism and good advice that this video needs a follow up. To be fair I did start with the instructions and my drills cut. Sincere thanks for the information.
@@danharold3087 You are most certainly welcome. The tool does work well for what it is but the instructions kind of suck. Yes, it will drill without the relief angle, especially if you drill a pilot hole first. That said without the proper relief angle it takes a lot more force to make a hole. It becomes VERY noticeable when you are using a hand drill, rather than a drill press. I did mean this as constructive criticism and in reading my post I can see how you might have taken it a bit differently. Let me just say it was a good video just lacking some details. I look forward to the follow up where you show that bit pulling two long pigtails out of the workpiece as proof of concept!!! It's a great tool and people do struggle with it your video will alleviate a lot of that.
@@michaeldose2041 Ah OK yeah I generally drill pilots as I am trying to locate the holes. No milling machine. Thinking the feed screw works out as both feed and depth if one holds off on the final depth on the 1st side then makes the final passes on the same setting. In other words grind 2nd side to final then return to first side and finish it. This sounds familiar but I can't say if I have used it that way or not. Working on the eccentric engineering sharpening system. Have the table built.
@@danharold3087 They call it a feed screw which is a misnomer. It is a stop that insures both sides are the same. It is only ''finished'' when you do the relief angle, which cannot be done on this tool. The directions say to do it by hand. There are some good videos that demonstrates how to establish that, by hand. it is a small but important piece of getting the job perfect. In short you would hold the bit with the face horizontal (instead of vertical as on the tool) bring it in at a 59degree angle to the horizontal and rotate vertically through a 8 to 12 degree sweep. That's a little tricky because you have to start just below the cutting edge. If you start right on the cutting edge, the edge will be delicate and the cutting edge prone to chip. A little tricky and takes some trial and error to get it right. Which is why a lot of people think this tool is useless. I get it, if you can do that by hand why not just do the whole thing by hand?
First thanks for watching. Lets see if I can put this to bed. Maybe it will take another video. First: The wheel I used in this video was designed to sharpen circular saw blades cutting primarily on the side. Regular wheels are not intended to take large side loads. But here is the thing. The load/pressure put on the side of the wheel while grinding bits with this jig are very very small. Done properly you are just kissing the wheel. It is far easier for the government to say never do this than ask people to act responsibly. I would not suggest grinding randomly on the wheel side. But for an individual correctly sharpening bits with this jig in the home or his shop it is difficult to see how this could be more dangerous than sharpening on the wheel circumference. Some example that show side grinding www.sharpeningsupplies.com/1055-Dill-Bit-Sharpening-Attachment-Owners-Manual-P1172.aspx Book 38 in the "WORKSHOP PRACTICE SERIES" "TOOL AND CUTTER SHARPENING" by Harold Hall page 18.
Thanks for that , I've had one just like that laying in my garage for years and never knew exactly how it works so I'd try to sharpen drill bits by hand and never got good at it .
Glad to help. Thinking about a follow up and maybe scaling up the fixture to sharpen larger bits.
Cool, that is going to be handy to have.
G’day Dan. I’ve seen these sharpening jigs in the past but never bought one, looks ok. Thanks for sharing. Cheers
Peter
Welcome. That shaper is awesome. Would love to see more
G’day Dan what are you smoking man, I don’t have a shaper.
Cheers
Peter
PGS it’s high time you rectified that problem. LOL
It's cutting from the top down, instead from the side. I'm going to set mine up in my drill press, using a horizontal spinning grinding wheel, trying to make some kind of spring loaded base so I can back off the drill, so it will only cut in one direction. Wist the belt in the drill, and it will spin the other way. Sometimes, I'm full of crazy ideas, but it keeps me busy.
Sounds like a plan. I have been thinking about the setup. However you spin the stone start by balancing the stone. Then true it.
Thanks
Hey Dan, I saw you subbed to my new channel today. Thank you sir! I figured I come on over and sub to you too! I have to say I like what I see here. I'll be watching all your stuff. Take care bud.
Thanks for the demo. The instructions that came with my General Tools 825 was all in a foreign language. Even the pictures were less than helpful.
Instructions say to use a bolt with wingnut as they illustrate in their instructions which you apparently did not refer to. A wingnut allows the base to be readily to adjusted for different length bits and for small adjustments to meet the wheel. Use the "feed screw" for finer adjustments until the entire surface is ground. The way you attached the base it requires a wrench to make adjustments. The drill overhang to the lip rest should be 50% of the bit diameter not 100%. Instructions say "Use of tool in side grinding should only be done with a wheel specifically designed for side grinding and approved by ANSI, OSHA." The "lip rest" should extend "slightly" into the flute of the bit and not as you have shown. Have sharpened many bits with this tool and and find their instructions worth following. You can download instructions by looking up General Tool Drill Grinding Attachment No. 825.
Hey Lester, could you make a video detailing exactly how to use this tool? Specifically how to measure the bit overhang. You really seem to know all about it.
@@bwthor Thanks for your reply Brandon. I've never made a video and expect I wouldn't be be very good at it. See a copy of the instructions at: images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/91YvX8XRHXL.pdf. It illustrates very well how to adjust the tool to the lip rest as well as making other adjustments.
Buenas tardes compañeros que bueno seria tener un video como este del mismo util en español ,si fuera posible quedaria fantastico un saludo
Excellent video. Do you know where can I find the standards related to this product. I need it for an university work. Regards
Thanks for sharing Dan. Is there any concern about sharpening the bits on the side of the wheel? I've heard more than once to never sharpen anything on the side of a grinding wheel because it can cause it to crack.
I am switching to a cup wheel. But I imagine it would take a lot of sharpening with this jig to wear a wheel to where it would be compromised. I am guessing its a lawyer induced warning to prevent lawsuits from idiots.
Having said that. Bellsaw, I think it was them, tells people not to sharpen on the side but in the instructions for this tool says its OK to do so.
the postage stamp size instructions that came w/mine weren't very helpful . i mounted mine w/trough 3/16 from grinding wheel (indexing pointer barely clears grinding wheel) . i've sharpened several different sized bits , and get good results w/out needing to move the base . hope this might help someone w/initial setup . i do believe that fine tuning the base distance from grinder (fractions of an inch) might make a difference in the size of bit chisel (center) point though .
Interesting. It has been a while but either my instructions were larger or I found them online. I should make a follow up video on this.
Is the rotating motion used to operate this jig not going to produce radiused grinds, rather than a flat chisel tip? Surely a jig which held the bit perpendicular to the wheel, at the required angle, and then could be slid forwards and backwards, parallel to the side of the wheel, would produce a better tip?
The motion may cause one to think the radius is greater than it actually is. The bits cut well. If one digs there are patents and plans for more complex jigs if you don't care for this type.
Buenas compañeros,seria posible traducirlo al español pues es un video muy interesante pero yo particularmente me quedo sin ninguna informacion ,un saludo
Bonito gato👍🏻
If you don't bother to read the instructions and then do it incorrectly you get a crap grind like you did!you have to make sure the little finger actually touches the flute cutting edge just below the end cutting edge Both sides otherwise you get two cutting edges that are not parallel to each other, and it will screw up the chisel point.
I have a 2 disc bench grinder, do you still recommend working from the side? I am used to working from the front but am flexible.
Thank You
The don't grind on the side was put in place to protect people. In a commercial environment where you have multiple people using tools it is a good rule. Over time the wheel will weaken and break. In a well run shop somebody would change it. But OSHA is playing it safe here.
From a legal standpoint I would be stupid to say yes it is safe. My opinion is that in our shops we are the only one responsible for our safety. This like many other operations in our shops have associated risks. I do not let this stop me from using my tools. The decision is yours
There are grinding wheels that can be used from the side (like the flaring cup or straight cup grinding wheels)
Does your scale have 118 degree stamped on your tool ? Mine does not? Mine has CSK, 49,59,68 and 88 degrees.
59 + 59 = 118
Better than the Drill Doctor
Yeah you should read the directions. 1. The alignment guide that goes against the flute calls for the tip to extend half the diameter of the drill from the end of the tool. The reason for this is to insure that the cutting lip is vertical. 2. The ''feed screw'' is not a feed screw. It is location screw or a stop. It is referred to as a ''feed screw'' in the directions, which is confusing, but it's true purpose is to insure that both cutting lips are exactly the same length. 3. You did properly flip the bit and ground the other side, but you are NOT finished. The cutting edge is level with the trailing edge. The is supposed to be an 8 to 12 degree relief angle so that the trailing edge is lower than the cutting edge. The directions call to create a ''relief'' angle by hand. This is done by dragging the face across the stone starting just behind the cutting edge and dragging the bit upward. That is tricky, and calls for some skill and probably the biggest reason this style of tool gets a bad rap. Grind it sharp and it still doesn't cut and people don't understand why. This tool makes a good edge but it does not give a relief angle. That must be done by other means.
Thank you. I have gotten enough criticism and good advice that this video needs a follow up. To be fair I did start with the instructions and my drills cut. Sincere thanks for the information.
@@danharold3087 You are most certainly welcome. The tool does work well for what it is but the instructions kind of suck. Yes, it will drill without the relief angle, especially if you drill a pilot hole first. That said without the proper relief angle it takes a lot more force to make a hole. It becomes VERY noticeable when you are using a hand drill, rather than a drill press. I did mean this as constructive criticism and in reading my post I can see how you might have taken it a bit differently. Let me just say it was a good video just lacking some details. I look forward to the follow up where you show that bit pulling two long pigtails out of the workpiece as proof of concept!!! It's a great tool and people do struggle with it your video will alleviate a lot of that.
@@michaeldose2041 Ah OK yeah I generally drill pilots as I am trying to locate the holes. No milling machine.
Thinking the feed screw works out as both feed and depth if one holds off on the final depth on the 1st side then makes the final passes on the same setting. In other words grind 2nd side to final then return to first side and finish it.
This sounds familiar but I can't say if I have used it that way or not.
Working on the eccentric engineering sharpening system. Have the table built.
@@danharold3087 They call it a feed screw which is a misnomer. It is a stop that insures both sides are the same. It is only ''finished'' when you do the relief angle, which cannot be done on this tool. The directions say to do it by hand. There are some good videos that demonstrates how to establish that, by hand. it is a small but important piece of getting the job perfect. In short you would hold the bit with the face horizontal (instead of vertical as on the tool) bring it in at a 59degree angle to the horizontal and rotate vertically through a 8 to 12 degree sweep. That's a little tricky because you have to start just below the cutting edge. If you start right on the cutting edge, the edge will be delicate and the cutting edge prone to chip. A little tricky and takes some trial and error to get it right. Which is why a lot of people think this tool is useless. I get it, if you can do that by hand why not just do the whole thing by hand?
What about the risk of grinding at the wheel from the side?
First thanks for watching. Lets see if I can put this to bed. Maybe it will take another video.
First: The wheel I used in this video was designed to sharpen circular saw blades cutting primarily on the side.
Regular wheels are not intended to take large side loads. But here is the thing. The load/pressure put on the side of the wheel while grinding bits with this jig are very very small. Done properly you are just kissing the wheel. It is far easier for the government to say never do this than ask people to act responsibly. I would not suggest grinding randomly on the wheel side. But for an individual correctly sharpening bits with this jig in the home or his shop it is difficult to see how this could be more dangerous than sharpening on the wheel circumference.
Some example that show side grinding
www.sharpeningsupplies.com/1055-Dill-Bit-Sharpening-Attachment-Owners-Manual-P1172.aspx
Book 38 in the "WORKSHOP PRACTICE SERIES" "TOOL AND CUTTER SHARPENING" by Harold Hall page 18.
@@danharold3087 thank you!
Useless video. No explanations as to angles required.