I have a miyabi black 240mm gyuto (zdp189) And yes it’s very time consuming to sharpen, but absolutely worth it. I maintain my knife on a strop daily and every now and then hit it up on a fine ceramic honing rod. I only sharpened it once since owning for 8 months just to achieve a more mirror finish edge but yeah… took awhile. I doubt I’ll need to sharpen it for even more months to come. I work in a restaurant as well so it truly pays off to have such a reliable knife.
For kitchen knives I really love what Yoshikane does with SKD. I love how it seems to keep a great amount of toothiness even if I touch it up and refine it at very high grits for however long. With other steels it feels like I have to be careful and only spend a little time at higher grits or they get a bit slippery for general use and just lack the feedback in cutting feel I like. For pocket knives and what I want them to be able to do without fuss.. So far s35vn.
I love Ginsan. It's best of both worlds. I can get it crazy sharp and it holds the sharpness well. My second favourite is aogami super. I find it easy to sharpen and very crazy sharp. Even it doesn't hold sharpness not as long as the Ginsan knives. But that's what I like. Sharpen is fun!
For restaurant especially in a high intensity michelin stainless is the way to go you don't always have the time to wipe down your carbon knife and your colleagues might not treat the carbon knife aswell as you would to it and risk getting it rusted. Sometimes you get called onto a different job on the fly whilst using your knife like go to the walk in fridge to get something or drop onto a different station. For home you can go what you like
I always Go for Stainless Steel Knives! In my experience I watched many knife skills videos and they are professionals too, I observed they always used Stainless Steel Knives and Cleavers! I never saw any one on the professional level using a Carbon one, that Rusts easily & quickly, looks Ugly Spots, requires High Maintenance Skills, Regular Proper Treatment Skills, Very Expensive as well! With the advancement of technology in making Stainless Steel Knives, these are becoming more powerful than Carbon Steel in those edge retention, feel & no maintenance aspects. In the future we don't even compare Stainless Steel with Carbon Steel and everyone can easily go for Stainless Steel only! That gentlemen from school of wok Chinese channel uses Stainless Steel only and sells that same single knife on their website and also said on that video that they have one person come to them on regular basis for sharpening some 70 to 100 Knives daily! When professionals themselves prefer to sharpen more often their Stainless Steel than to maintain a Carbon steel then why should people go for Carbon on a Domestic Home Based purposes?
I personally prefer carbon steel especially rustic looking ones but my work horse is a 10 inch shun in VG10 if I have a lot of prep. But if it’s slower or at home I have my aogami 1 santoku knife I bought in Japan paired with a aogami super petty knife. And my emergency back up knife is ol reliable Victorinox 8 inch chef knife. To me cutting with a super sharp carbon steel of like therapy to me
I'm a glass canon, all the way. It's Shirogami for me with the Mutsumi Hinoura Kurouchi line and they are SCREAMING SHARP. They slice through older, starting-to-wrinkle bell peppers like they're fresh-picked with rock hard skin. A single, confident, no non-sense, laser beam slice, every time. It's like holding a god damn lightsaber for veggie and meat prep, it's unreal.
I cannot tell you how helpful this video has repeatedly been. Thank you Gage and Sharp Knife Shop. That said I just got a Shirogami #3 Honyaki from Nakagawa.
For me, it’s vegetables vs meat. Stainless steel for vegetables and fruits. There’s more “slide” when cutting. I can cut oranges and onions without needing to wash 10 seconds after cutting. Carbon steel for meats, especially cooked beef. There’s more “grab” from my white steel; makes for more even and predictable cuts. Stainless, no matter how sharp, always slides on a steak before cutting in. White steel grabs immediately (if sharp enough, like my beloved Fujiwara’s), which makes me less worried about cutting my fingers.
Absolutely incredible video. Great edits. My favourite steel is Aogami Super Steel. I don’t own a HAP40 and I was afraid it would be difficult to sharpen. But it’s no ZDP-189.
You would be correct. It's highly obscure and niche for a reason. Mostly only a thing used in kitchen knives at all bc it was promoted by CKTG. Basically almost all of the few knives made in that steel are for export, it's even less of a thing inside Japan as it is outside of Japan.
This video is fantastic! I prefer stainless (lazy to go above clean and dry) and got place in my kitchen for both Wusthof 20cm chef knife and 21cm ginsan kiritsuke gyuto depending on the task. R2 would be next to buy even when I dont need it I still want it 😃.
Best tip for anyone buying a knife: Get an Opinel pocket knife. Threy are ground thin and they come in carbon and stainless. You can get them fro $10 a piece. That's the cheapest and best way to see how thry stain, sharpen and hold an edge.
Nice video. I’d also like to add, my vg-10 knives have a horrible feel compared to blue #1 and 2 when I sharpen them. They take longer and have this almost sandy feel.
I love this video, very informative. I just wish you had this at least 8 months ago as I your videos helped me decide in buying my first Japanese knives. Though I am happy with my Aogami Super gyuto and petty knives, I think this would have helped me better and decided to choose an R2 for my butcher knife.
No AUS10? you should add "Sharpness" criteria to the rating system, i read that grain structure have role to sharpness, so pure high carbon steel (less alloys = less carbides, and impurities) like shirogami and PM (Powder Metallurgy) steel will be sharper than other steel. I read that PM steel will slightly less sharp after being sharpened even though you don't use it.
I mean you do realise that every time he say an element improve the grain of steel it does exactly that, it help create a thinner grain within the steel, you don't find those element in carbon steel because a carbon steel is basically just Iron and carbon. Also pure cabon steel don't have less carbide, to the contrary many people are fond of carbon steel with a high amount of carbide because this what make them hold their edges longer. And finally stainless steel can have a really thin grain structure, Sandvik is specialized in making steel for razor and knives and all of their best seller steel are stainless.
Im not super experienced with different steel types. Ive got a gyoto from Shiro#2 and a Nakiri from Ao#2. I'm not sure weather to agree or disagree with your rating. I found it super easy to get a decent edge on both of these knives, even though I'm not really good with free hand sharpening. It could also be due to the very small thickness behind the edge, it only takes a few strokes on the stone to create a burr. Same with the edge retention. I used the knives one year in my kitchen before resharpening and they still cut fine, which also could be because of the blade geometry. Only sharpened because some day I realised I couldnt penetrate tomato skin anymore.
It is such a massive subject that a final score is always gonna cause reaction. The two Shiros with the poor score for chipping can be given a 5 if you have good technique and a board with a good janka sweet spot, ramping those steels up the chart a bit further, but using it on a crappy bamboo board now brings back the chippy-ness into the equation and down they go again. I do understand that this video is purely about the steels in their own right but there are so many other factors before an ultimate conclusion is found and by then, there will be a new alloy to muddy the water again 😁 As ever, a great video and a great starting point for the new folks getting into knife life. Cheers... EDIT, Oops! Favourite Carbon steel = Shirogami #1 for pure insane sharpness and patina. Favourite Stainless = SG2 2k stone then 0.5 and 0.1 stropping (SG2 loves stropping I find)
Yeah we knew we'd catch it on the carbon scores, and we dont think that white steel is THAT chippy either honestly, the first knife destruction test we did was with a thin shirogami knife and we saw together how much abuse it could take together! However, it has to be noted that this was only a score of 1 IN COMPARISON to the other steels we discussed. I've only ever chipped a knife once, and I was being a little too aggressive for a video (do it for the gram). My two favorite knives are shirogami, one being a very thin BTE yanagi, and the other being a chucka bocho that is quite thin but is still a chopper, and I have yet to chip either of them. But I know if I were to push my luck with them in the ways that I sometimes do with my workhorse stainless knives they wouldn't be without some battle scars!
@@SharpKnifeShop luckily I've not chipped one yet, had that horrible noise of sticking in the end grain and almost twisting. Looking forward to the next video.
Ballbearing steel or Vanadis 4 Extra for fixed blade outdoors knife and a stainless with good edge stability for a folding knife.So, something like COS or CPM 154.
Hi Gage, I disagree with your toughness rating for HAP40 / ZDP-189. HAP40 is by far the toughest steel compared to the other stainless steel because of the lesser chromium content. And of course it is a high speed powderered stee! - like SG2! There are sofisticated articles and material science papers to dokument this (>50% tougher than SG2/VG10! and even more for ZDP-189). But thanks for the nice comparision of the different steel types. You might have guessed it - my favorit is HAP40. But I also like SG2, AS, Ginsan and S#1. As you said it depends all from the maker....
Hey! I'm a big advocate of HAP40 myself, as two of my favorite knives (Gihei HAP40 240 gyuto and 165 santoku) are made from it! We are speaking more from our personal experience with these steels, and while HAP40 may be tougher on paper, I feel as if that may only be the case if it were heat treated to a comparable HRC as the steels that you're comparing it against which isn't normally the case, as its almost always taken very high. But you're absolutely right about the maker making all the difference because I've used and sharpened knives of the same steel from different makers that feel like polar opposites before! A great example of this to my personal experience would be Miyabi SG2 knives vs Yu Kurosakis. and while I believe a great deal of that comes from the thinness of Kurosakis work, but they are much, much easier to sharpen than the Miyabis. We're not claiming to be metallurgists though and we know that this is certainly more surface level than the research papers that can be found, but we can also only fit so much into one video! -Jake
@@SharpKnifeShop Hi Jake, thank you for the responce. I agree with you - it largely depends on the maker and steel is only one factor in the equation. Beeing a knife merchant, you see much more different stuff and you have much more experience than I as home cook and knife nerd. Thank you - please continue your great work to show us the different knives and types. There is now the best knife. There are many exceptional knives out there and as a collector - I hope I find those that suit me the best.
Plenty of things are not that exact here, but it is a subjective list. But ZDP-189, HAP40 and SG2 are all PM steels. PM allows them to have high carbide contents with more or less acceptable toughness. Also the smaller carbides mean, that they are more easy to sharpen, as they can be "scooped out" by abrasive particles. However, not all PM steels are high speed steels, only the ones containing high amounts of W and/or Mo (>10 wt%), >3.5 wt% Cr and ideally >8 wt% Co, so only HAP40. Also ATS314 and VG10 are the same thing, only that ATS314 sounds a bit more exotic. Toughness is ZDP-189 < Aogami Super
@@itsmederek1 I put it between SLD and VG10 exactly for that reason... SLD is D2 and gets a 4.5 from knifesteelnerds, while ZDP gets a 5. VG10 much higher at 7.5. Depending on the heat treat ZDP will also score much higher in corrosion resistance, but that will sacrifice abrasion resistance.
I think it's important to note that many of the modern Japanese carbon steel knives are clad in a stainless or semi-stainless so it would probably be fair to give them a higher score in Corrosion resistance and rate them higher overall...
I'm going to have to disagree with you there! While its true that there are many clad options, a clad knife must be cared for the same way as an iron clad knife as there is still exposed carbon steel. The only difference is that if something should go wrong, it is a smaller portion of the knife that will need to be cleaned up. But the rust, pitting, and possible delamination of the clad construction will still happen just as fast on a clad knife, and it will happen on the only part of the knife that really effects the performance, which is the core steel! We see a lot of people who are newer to Japanese knives get a stainless clad option or a semi stainless because they think they can treat it as a stainless knife, and this always leads to serious issues and a lot of material needing to be removed to get past the pitting and delamination that this occurring over a long period of carelessness. So we always recommend to treat a clad or semi stainless knife the same as you would a fully iron clad knife. We think of a stainless cladding as an airbag, just because you have one doesnt mean you should get into a head on collision, but if you do, you'll probably be happy to have one.
Corrosion on the edge is the big issue, it destroys the edge and the pitting needs more work to fix. IMO you want to care for a stainless knife the same as a carbon steel, so the amount of extra work is minimal. The main issue is aesthetic from the patina (which I like)
I totally agree. I have 2 knives Shirogami with an iron cladding they are just a disaster they rust in seconds no matter how well I take care of them, and I take care of them really well! I have nothing to say other than they are worthless pieces of shit. I will never buy an iron clad knife again neverrr!! I really don't understand why anyone would want rust in their food. On the other hand, I have 3 knives aogami super with a stainless cladding , a completely different story!! The stainless cladding completely protects most of the knife and I have never had a problem with the small exposed part. But as I said, I take care of them really well.
I personally find VG10 to be worse than carbon steel at both edge retention and how easy it is to sharpen but it could just be the way that Mcusta Zanmai treats and grinds their knives and I might have a bias towards aogami #2. Honestly my best performing knives are carbon steel but there are likely other factors at play. Keep in mind that is just my limited experience with a few brands that use VG10 the main one being Mcusta Zanmai which is why I used it specifically in this comment.
VG-10 can be very, very different depending on the heat treat. I've had and used a few VG-10 knives and if you didn't tell me Id have thought they were different steels!
Best steel for kitchen knives IMHO. AEBL The main issue with this steel is the fact that you generally wont find it run harder than 61 rc in production or non custom knives. In custom knives it's easily run 63+ rc and its the best overall kitchen knife steel imho. Hard, VERY tough, very easy to sharpen like a carbon steel but holds an edge considerably better, extremely fine grained, extremely tough, etc. Superb edge stability especially for very fine and thin edges like you'd want in a kitchen knife of the highest quality. Good steel choices for high end kitchen knives... 52100, aebl, SG2. New steels like AU and Magnacut are very promising but I don't expect the traditional burdened Japanese to be using that any time ever. If I had to rank the traditional Japanese steels I would say blue #2 and blue #1 are by far the best. AS is too brittle especially at higher hardness. White steel is much too easy to abrade and too reactive imo there is really no benefit in using it over blue for a kitchen knife, unless you're making the knives in which case white steel is obviously easier to forge, easier to grind, easier to work with, so ofc as a makrer you have the incentive to act like it's better. For the end user, it's not.
Can you recommend a ultra-premium steel for Arizona law enforcement knives? Due to our low humidity, we do not need corrosion resistance, but toughness and edge retention (wear resistance). Our cops use their knives for everything! - screwdrivers, cutting through fences, slicing seat belts from burn victims, et al. We do not need a recommendation on a specific brand of knives - we will find a manufacturer once we learn which steel is ideal for Arizona LEOs. Can you make a recommendation?
These knives are for food prep - you don't want any of the brittle stuff (the same stuff that rusts easily) for any of those tasks. They WILL snap. You want a steel that maxes out on the toughness scale.
Do you find that some steels feel "toothier" and hold more "bite" as you go up in grits, compared to others? I often see this debated, but in my experience, it definitely seems to be a trait independent of sharpening consistency.
Yep I totally experience that too, i think it hast to do with the grain stricture of the steel since while sharpening you will (depending on the grit) eventually remove metal at the scale of the individual grains. -> the finer the grain structure the less toothy the edge.
We find that this question gets asked a lot. In our experience some steels don't benefit from going to a super fine finish. Traditional Japanese stainless steels usually feel best around a 3k finish, where as German stainless knives usually feel best around 1k, and carbon steels and powdered stainless steels can be taken up about as high as you'd like (within reason, the edge youd put a a razor will be a touch too refined for a kitchen knife). Imagine a lower grit stone creates the teeth on your edge, a higher grit will polish the teeth where they are making contact. Should you continue to grind PAST those teeth you will create newer, smaller teeth on every stone that you progress to. Softer steels like the German variety we've discussed tend to burnish on higher grits and lose the tooth quicker than other options. I think higher grits are a great tool, but we often discuss most of your work being done on a lower grit stone, and if you spend too long on your high grits you polish away your teeth!
@@WormyLeWorm Yep exactly - chromium carbides are pretty beefy fellas, probably one of the reasons stainless steals usually feel toothier than their carbon counterparts.
Would have been interesting to hear a take on a steel for a "beginner friendly" or "first high end knife". I've always been a home chef and am just getting into purchasing a nice knife and am leaning towards r2, specifically yu kurosaki's line of bunkas. And advice from those of you who are pros? I do have some (although not a lot) of experience with different steels + in sharpening as I've carried pocket knives my whole life.
I have a R2 Gyuto and a 1000-3000 grit whetstone and a 3000 grit ceramic honing rod to get started. Is this a good package? This is my first step into Japanese knives and I was reading alot before buying. My knife is still razos sharp after cooking a few meals and cutting a whole lot of vegetables. I tried sharpening some cheaper European style knives with my equipment and I got them pretty sharp. So I'm looking forward to sharpen my good knive in 1/2 year or so.
Yes, your kit is great! But i will highly recommend you in buying a leather strop or making one, it will take off the microburr after sharpening or stroping, making your knife feel a lot sharper. I personally don't like honing rod, because it's a lot harder to maintain the angle and I just feel a better result by changing the honing rod to a leather strop with 1 or 2 micron diamond compound. And it's not necessary, but since you are planning in sharpening 1-2 times a year, I would recommend buying a 400 grit whetstone
That is a great kit indeed! As said below by Erick I agree that a strop will certainly help you take that edge from sharp to scary sharp! The other thing that I may recommend would be a lower grit stone. Depending on how dull you let your R2 get it may take a while to cut a new edge in on a 1k, and if you plan on continuing to sharpen cheaper softer steels, a 200-500 grit stone would not only make that much faster, but leave a more aggressive bite that will have them cutting a lot better. Try finishing those guys on a 1k and then stropping for a more stable longer lasting edge!
I always Go for Stainless Steel Knives! In my experience I watched many knife skills videos and they are professionals too, I observed they always used Stainless Steel Knives and Cleavers! I never saw any one on the professional level using a Carbon one, that Rusts easily & quickly, looks Ugly Spots, requires High Maintenance Skills, Regular Proper Treatment Skills, Very Expensive as well! With the advancement of technology in making Stainless Steel Knives, these are becoming more powerful than Carbon Steel in those edge retention, feel & no maintenance aspects. In the future we don't even compare Stainless Steel with Carbon Steel and everyone can easily go for Stainless Steel only! That gentlemen from school of wok Chinese channel uses Stainless Steel only and sells that same single knife on their website and also said on that video that they have one person come to them on regular basis for sharpening some 70 to 100 Knives daily! When professionals themselves prefer to sharpen more often their Stainless Steel than to maintain a Carbon steel then why should people go for Carbon on a Domestic Home Based purposes?
@@jasondeblou6226 It is not. Some carbon knives I have used may have become a little sharper after sharpening than my stainless knives, but they did not keep that sharpness long enough to justify the extra maintenance. My VG10 and SG2 blades are also razor-sharp but they won't rust in a matter of minutes if you do not clean and dry them immediately after cutting a single piece of fruit or vegetable. In the end a knife is a cooking tool and I want to get my food ready, not spend all my time cleaning knives.
I don't understand why you give R2 a 2 for sharpenability and HAP40 a 2.5 for sharpenability but say that R2 isn't that hard to sharpen and HAP40 is very hard to sharpen ?
Checking out your shop, it doesn't look like you sell monosteel knives like MAC and some lower end Shuns. However, it would be interesting to see your rating of the steels they use. MAC claims a "proprietary" high Mo AUS8, Shun Kanso is AUS-10A. I have used an 8" MAC chef's knife for decades and love it. Easy to sharped, wicked sharp, stays sharp much longer than Henckels or Wusthof.
There is always a "best" but it depends on the task. When the carbon content is the same, stainless steel is better, chrome carbides are several magnitudes harder than iron carbides. Carbon steel knives are only popular because of the patina they get and because of all the flat-out ignorance of the bushcraft community.
It's hard to compare these steels, they are close in composition. So in real life, as the author said, you need to pay attention to the heat treatment (as result hardness, and toughness) and geometry of the knife. Aus-10 able to get 59-60HRC hardness, VG-10 typically has 61HRC. Aus10 has better toughness, so it has better resistance to chipping. In most cases it's hard to feel difference between theese steels.
I'm very partial to high vanadium content steels. I really like 10v personally. Generally all my favorite steels tend to be powder metallurgy tool steels. If I had to pick a Japanese steel, maybe hap40. If I had to pick a carbon steel, definitely aogami super. Edit 2: the sharpening thing is just my experience. I have a lot of different abrasive types for a lot of situations, and likely it might not reflect how some people see this. Edit: idk if I quite agree with the sharpenability part. Very hard steels tend to sharpen quite nicely considering the geometry behind the edge is thin. Thinness is a bigger factor than anything else when it comes to ease of sharpening, and I've noticed the harder the steel, the easier it is to deburr. If you lump thinning into sharpening then it becomes a much bigger factor. I would honestly classify that more into grindability . Just sharpening the edge tends to not be much of a challenge though.
I think your final point about carbon steel being ideal for sushi chefs pretty much nails it. Other than that specific profession, carbon steel really doesn't outperform stainless, it just doesn't. Home cooks are never going to want to sharpen that often or spend so much effort keeping rust off. Western cooks need a knife that can take a beating, at least chicken bones.
You have as much idea about knife steels as I do about space flights.... VG10 is a better steel than Super Aogami, HAP 40?!?!?!?!?!?!?! I think you fell down the stairs on your head...
My favorites so far are R2 and Aogami 2. Most of my knives are made from them. I've actually found Aogami 2 to be very forgiving, and yes, incredibly easy to sharpen.
For sure, truly ANY of the traditional Japanese blades are all WELL-above average for the home cook, or even professional for that matter. Also, there are such small (tangible yet esoteric differences), between AS, A#1 & A#2, Shiro #1 & #2…YES the most professional of professionals could tell you which one is which, however right off from the stone/strop, day 1 of the work- week, they are SO CLOSE - I would say choose which steel most both compliments/benefits your life… . .for myself, I ge really want the sharpenst edge I can fry, so givin all of the afore mentioned choices, I would without a doubt choose Shiro#1, then Shiro #2, then A#1, then A#1, and lastly AS - I sI care MKRE for the sharpness of the bevel-edge, than the duration for which you have for E-sharpen, or even the angels which you should sharpen the other traditional Steels, which less Carbides. For the “new-age shit,” I’m all about 52100❣️ I hope this helps, any questions, please reach out, and I will do my best to get back with you in a timely manner.
@@Chihuahuauno1 true. any one of them is outdated obsolete over hyped but a kitchen knife demands so little from steel that it literally doesn't matter. what really matter is the knife itself, how it's made, it's ergos, it's balance, the grind and cutting geometry will matter 1000x more than steel choice. and for the record, the white steels were never intended for kitchen knives. the blue steels were the ones that were made for kitchen knives, kitchen knives made in the traditional, crude manner where hot chunk of metal is thrown into a fire and then hammered on. Blue #1 is considered the most ideal of those steels for a kitchen knife. AS is brittle asf and doesn't even have the abrasion resistance dollar store stainless steel.
Great contribution to understanding Japanese knife steels, but the part of "other nationalities steel types" is the biggest bs ever. Let's review the statement. "Comparison between a German stainless steel and a Japanese carbon steel: Typically, that $1 to $30 knife that you bought at Walmart that’s stainless is not going to stay sharp as long as a carbon steel, but a Japanese stainless steel is going to stay sharp for longer than a Japanese carbon steel." Which translates to me something like "Comparison between a German car and a Japanese lawn mower: Typically, that $500 electric Chinese bicycle that you bought at Walmart is not going to be as fast as the Japanese lawn mower, but the Japanese car is faster than a Japanese lawn mower." Yes - it does not make sense. There are great German steels, and French (e.g. XC75), and others. But if you don't know anything about them, just say it. As for Carbon steel I'd say it's probably not good for most, just like a Ferrari makes for a terrible daily commuter.
@@razbiton173 never cut acidic food and wipe it dry after washing the knife. For the first 8 years i never used any oil on my knife and it's fine. Now for prevention I'm using knife oil
For me, probably SLD/VS1 and Hap40. I think, they are a good balance between sharpenability, stain resistance and sharpness. But I like the other ones, too :-)
Hap40 is a cobalt based high speed tool steel that was never intended for use in cutlery and only became a thing because it was promoted by one large US based knife seller called CKTG. Other than bc of their influence no one uses or suggests this obscure tool steel for knives. and the claims they make about it, like "voodoo steel," are a load of hot air. You wont find anyone in Japan using that. Even outside of Japan it's a very niche obscure steel that is only used in like maybe a tenth of one percent of knives for export, even less in the JDM, and again this is only because one company called CKTG decided to promote it thinking it looked good on paper. This steel is not stainless. It's vastly more difficult than anything else you will find used in a kitchen knife to grind and sharpen. It doesn't play well with normal whetstones because of it's vanadium content, an alloy not generally used in kitchen knives for that exact reason. It's prone to warping so good luck finding anything out of the box that's ground thinly enough to be worth the trade off, otherwise good luck avoiding knives with curves in them. And for all that hassle it barely has more "edge retention' than a very common, easy to sharpen, actually stainless, actually made for cutlery steel like SG2... which unlike hap40 is used in thousands and thousands of different knife models and is extremely common. I think the issue is, the Japanese wont give outsiders those steels to use in their own knives, so that's why I'd guess CKTG decided to do the experiment with the cobalt tool steel...good for them, the marketing seems to be working. Not that it really matters. Steel is one of the least important things in a kitchen knife. Most of the traditional Japanese steels aren't super amazing, but it doesn't matter because kitchen knives don't require all that much from a steel.
Whats your favorite steel? Let us kno down below!
I have a miyabi black 240mm gyuto (zdp189)
And yes it’s very time consuming to sharpen, but absolutely worth it.
I maintain my knife on a strop daily and every now and then hit it up on a fine ceramic honing rod. I only sharpened it once since owning for 8 months just to achieve a more mirror finish edge but yeah… took awhile. I doubt I’ll need to sharpen it for even more months to come. I work in a restaurant as well so it truly pays off to have such a reliable knife.
Still don't know, probably R2 or aogami super
For kitchen knives I really love what Yoshikane does with SKD. I love how it seems to keep a great amount of toothiness even if I touch it up and refine it at very high grits for however long. With other steels it feels like I have to be careful and only spend a little time at higher grits or they get a bit slippery for general use and just lack the feedback in cutting feel I like. For pocket knives and what I want them to be able to do without fuss.. So far s35vn.
HAP. 40.
Loving Aogami Super so far for the reasons you stated. Next knife (Nakiri) will likely be R2 or Ginsan.
I love Ginsan. It's best of both worlds. I can get it crazy sharp and it holds the sharpness well. My second favourite is aogami super. I find it easy to sharpen and very crazy sharp. Even it doesn't hold sharpness not as long as the Ginsan knives. But that's what I like. Sharpen is fun!
Yes, the scores show that ginsan characteristics are well-balanced.
For restaurant especially in a high intensity michelin stainless is the way to go you don't always have the time to wipe down your carbon knife and your colleagues might not treat the carbon knife aswell as you would to it and risk getting it rusted. Sometimes you get called onto a different job on the fly whilst using your knife like go to the walk in fridge to get something or drop onto a different station. For home you can go what you like
I always Go for Stainless Steel Knives!
In my experience I watched many knife skills videos and they are professionals too, I observed they always used Stainless Steel Knives and Cleavers!
I never saw any one on the professional level using a Carbon one, that Rusts easily & quickly, looks Ugly Spots, requires High Maintenance Skills, Regular Proper Treatment Skills, Very Expensive as well!
With the advancement of technology in making Stainless Steel Knives, these are becoming more powerful than Carbon Steel in those edge retention, feel & no maintenance aspects.
In the future we don't even compare Stainless Steel with Carbon Steel and everyone can easily go for Stainless Steel only!
That gentlemen from school of wok Chinese channel uses Stainless Steel only and sells that same single knife on their website and also said on that video that they have one person come to them on regular basis for sharpening some 70 to 100 Knives daily!
When professionals themselves prefer to sharpen more often their Stainless Steel than to maintain a Carbon steel then why should people go for Carbon on a Domestic Home Based purposes?
I personally prefer carbon steel especially rustic looking ones but my work horse is a 10 inch shun in VG10 if I have a lot of prep. But if it’s slower or at home I have my aogami 1 santoku knife I bought in Japan paired with a aogami super petty knife. And my emergency back up knife is ol reliable Victorinox 8 inch chef knife. To me cutting with a super sharp carbon steel of like therapy to me
I'm a glass canon, all the way. It's Shirogami for me with the Mutsumi Hinoura Kurouchi line and they are SCREAMING SHARP. They slice through older, starting-to-wrinkle bell peppers like they're fresh-picked with rock hard skin. A single, confident, no non-sense, laser beam slice, every time. It's like holding a god damn lightsaber for veggie and meat prep, it's unreal.
I cannot tell you how helpful this video has repeatedly been. Thank you Gage and Sharp Knife Shop. That said I just got a Shirogami #3 Honyaki from Nakagawa.
Nakagawa is a genius
Great overall description of all the steel found in knives. Thanks
It's far from 'all the steel found in knives', these are actually pretty niche steels with a couple of exceptions. Strange list to say the least.
For me, it’s vegetables vs meat.
Stainless steel for vegetables and fruits. There’s more “slide” when cutting. I can cut oranges and onions without needing to wash 10 seconds after cutting.
Carbon steel for meats, especially cooked beef. There’s more “grab” from my white steel; makes for more even and predictable cuts. Stainless, no matter how sharp, always slides on a steak before cutting in. White steel grabs immediately (if sharp enough, like my beloved Fujiwara’s), which makes me less worried about cutting my fingers.
Absolutely incredible video. Great edits. My favourite steel is Aogami Super Steel. I don’t own a HAP40 and I was afraid it would be difficult to sharpen. But it’s no ZDP-189.
You would be correct. It's highly obscure and niche for a reason. Mostly only a thing used in kitchen knives at all bc it was promoted by CKTG. Basically almost all of the few knives made in that steel are for export, it's even less of a thing inside Japan as it is outside of Japan.
I appreciate the insight. But also how did you find a comment I made a year ago haha@@jeffhicks8428
This video is fantastic! I prefer stainless (lazy to go above clean and dry) and got place in my kitchen for both Wusthof 20cm chef knife and 21cm ginsan kiritsuke gyuto depending on the task. R2 would be next to buy even when I dont need it I still want it 😃.
Best tip for anyone buying a knife:
Get an Opinel pocket knife. Threy are ground thin and they come in carbon and stainless. You can get them fro $10 a piece. That's the cheapest and best way to see how thry stain, sharpen and hold an edge.
Nice video. I’d also like to add, my vg-10 knives have a horrible feel compared to blue #1 and 2 when I sharpen them. They take longer and have this almost sandy feel.
What grit did you use
I love this video, very informative. I just wish you had this at least 8 months ago as I your videos helped me decide in buying my first Japanese knives. Though I am happy with my Aogami Super gyuto and petty knives, I think this would have helped me better and decided to choose an R2 for my butcher knife.
No AUS10? you should add "Sharpness" criteria to the rating system, i read that grain structure have role to sharpness, so pure high carbon steel (less alloys = less carbides, and impurities) like shirogami and PM (Powder Metallurgy) steel will be sharper than other steel. I read that PM steel will slightly less sharp after being sharpened even though you don't use it.
I mean you do realise that every time he say an element improve the grain of steel it does exactly that, it help create a thinner grain within the steel, you don't find those element in carbon steel because a carbon steel is basically just Iron and carbon. Also pure cabon steel don't have less carbide, to the contrary many people are fond of carbon steel with a high amount of carbide because this what make them hold their edges longer. And finally stainless steel can have a really thin grain structure, Sandvik is specialized in making steel for razor and knives and all of their best seller steel are stainless.
Im not super experienced with different steel types. Ive got a gyoto from Shiro#2 and a Nakiri from Ao#2. I'm not sure weather to agree or disagree with your rating. I found it super easy to get a decent edge on both of these knives, even though I'm not really good with free hand sharpening. It could also be due to the very small thickness behind the edge, it only takes a few strokes on the stone to create a burr. Same with the edge retention. I used the knives one year in my kitchen before resharpening and they still cut fine, which also could be because of the blade geometry. Only sharpened because some day I realised I couldnt penetrate tomato skin anymore.
It is such a massive subject that a final score is always gonna cause reaction. The two Shiros with the poor score for chipping can be given a 5 if you have good technique and a board with a good janka sweet spot, ramping those steels up the chart a bit further, but using it on a crappy bamboo board now brings back the chippy-ness into the equation and down they go again. I do understand that this video is purely about the steels in their own right but there are so many other factors before an ultimate conclusion is found and by then, there will be a new alloy to muddy the water again 😁
As ever, a great video and a great starting point for the new folks getting into knife life.
Cheers...
EDIT, Oops! Favourite Carbon steel = Shirogami #1 for pure insane sharpness and patina. Favourite Stainless = SG2 2k stone then 0.5 and 0.1 stropping (SG2 loves stropping I find)
Yeah we knew we'd catch it on the carbon scores, and we dont think that white steel is THAT chippy either honestly, the first knife destruction test we did was with a thin shirogami knife and we saw together how much abuse it could take together! However, it has to be noted that this was only a score of 1 IN COMPARISON to the other steels we discussed. I've only ever chipped a knife once, and I was being a little too aggressive for a video (do it for the gram). My two favorite knives are shirogami, one being a very thin BTE yanagi, and the other being a chucka bocho that is quite thin but is still a chopper, and I have yet to chip either of them. But I know if I were to push my luck with them in the ways that I sometimes do with my workhorse stainless knives they wouldn't be without some battle scars!
@@SharpKnifeShop luckily I've not chipped one yet, had that horrible noise of sticking in the end grain and almost twisting.
Looking forward to the next video.
I was waiting to see a video that's about all the steel types and additives in those steels, my favourites as of today are super aogami and r2
You've got good taste ;D
@@SharpKnifeShop thanks to you, cause I picked my first two knives based on knowledge from your videos
Excellent explanation, thank you.
Super good info! Specially the difference between stainless and carbon steel
Ballbearing steel or Vanadis 4 Extra for fixed blade outdoors knife and a stainless with good edge stability for a folding knife.So, something like COS or CPM 154.
Hi Gage, I disagree with your toughness rating for HAP40 / ZDP-189. HAP40 is by far the toughest steel compared to the other stainless steel because of the lesser chromium content. And of course it is a high speed powderered stee! - like SG2! There are sofisticated articles and material science papers to dokument this (>50% tougher than SG2/VG10! and even more for ZDP-189). But thanks for the nice comparision of the different steel types. You might have guessed it - my favorit is HAP40. But I also like SG2, AS, Ginsan and S#1. As you said it depends all from the maker....
Hey! I'm a big advocate of HAP40 myself, as two of my favorite knives (Gihei HAP40 240 gyuto and 165 santoku) are made from it!
We are speaking more from our personal experience with these steels, and while HAP40 may be tougher on paper, I feel as if that may only be the case if it were heat treated to a comparable HRC as the steels that you're comparing it against which isn't normally the case, as its almost always taken very high.
But you're absolutely right about the maker making all the difference because I've used and sharpened knives of the same steel from different makers that feel like polar opposites before! A great example of this to my personal experience would be Miyabi SG2 knives vs Yu Kurosakis. and while I believe a great deal of that comes from the thinness of Kurosakis work, but they are much, much easier to sharpen than the Miyabis.
We're not claiming to be metallurgists though and we know that this is certainly more surface level than the research papers that can be found, but we can also only fit so much into one video!
-Jake
@@SharpKnifeShop Hi Jake, thank you for the responce. I agree with you - it largely depends on the maker and steel is only one factor in the equation. Beeing a knife merchant, you see much more different stuff and you have much more experience than I as home cook and knife nerd. Thank you - please continue your great work to show us the different knives and types. There is now the best knife. There are many exceptional knives out there and as a collector - I hope I find those that suit me the best.
Plenty of things are not that exact here, but it is a subjective list.
But ZDP-189, HAP40 and SG2 are all PM steels. PM allows them to have high carbide contents with more or less acceptable toughness. Also the smaller carbides mean, that they are more easy to sharpen, as they can be "scooped out" by abrasive particles. However, not all PM steels are high speed steels, only the ones containing high amounts of W and/or Mo (>10 wt%), >3.5 wt% Cr and ideally >8 wt% Co, so only HAP40.
Also ATS314 and VG10 are the same thing, only that ATS314 sounds a bit more exotic.
Toughness is ZDP-189 < Aogami Super
@@DerDanachDenkende According to knife steel nerds ZDP is in practice not a stainless steel, so disagree with the list
@@itsmederek1 I put it between SLD and VG10 exactly for that reason... SLD is D2 and gets a 4.5 from knifesteelnerds, while ZDP gets a 5. VG10 much higher at 7.5. Depending on the heat treat ZDP will also score much higher in corrosion resistance, but that will sacrifice abrasion resistance.
I think it's important to note that many of the modern Japanese carbon steel knives are clad in a stainless or semi-stainless so it would probably be fair to give them a higher score in Corrosion resistance and rate them higher overall...
I'm going to have to disagree with you there! While its true that there are many clad options, a clad knife must be cared for the same way as an iron clad knife as there is still exposed carbon steel. The only difference is that if something should go wrong, it is a smaller portion of the knife that will need to be cleaned up. But the rust, pitting, and possible delamination of the clad construction will still happen just as fast on a clad knife, and it will happen on the only part of the knife that really effects the performance, which is the core steel!
We see a lot of people who are newer to Japanese knives get a stainless clad option or a semi stainless because they think they can treat it as a stainless knife, and this always leads to serious issues and a lot of material needing to be removed to get past the pitting and delamination that this occurring over a long period of carelessness. So we always recommend to treat a clad or semi stainless knife the same as you would a fully iron clad knife. We think of a stainless cladding as an airbag, just because you have one doesnt mean you should get into a head on collision, but if you do, you'll probably be happy to have one.
Corrosion on the edge is the big issue, it destroys the edge and the pitting needs more work to fix.
IMO you want to care for a stainless knife the same as a carbon steel, so the amount of extra work is minimal. The main issue is aesthetic from the patina (which I like)
I totally agree. I have 2 knives Shirogami with an iron cladding they are just a disaster they rust in seconds no matter how well I take care of them, and I take care of them really well!
I have nothing to say other than they are worthless pieces of shit. I will never buy an iron clad knife again neverrr!!
I really don't understand why anyone would want rust in their food.
On the other hand, I have 3 knives aogami super with a stainless cladding , a completely different story!! The stainless cladding completely protects most of the knife and I have never had a problem with the small exposed part. But as I said, I take care of them really well.
What else would we need to compare? Very well done!
Gage ... Hap40 is also powder formed.... but still great list. agreed with all points
I personally find VG10 to be worse than carbon steel at both edge retention and how easy it is to sharpen but it could just be the way that Mcusta Zanmai treats and grinds their knives and I might have a bias towards aogami #2. Honestly my best performing knives are carbon steel but there are likely other factors at play. Keep in mind that is just my limited experience with a few brands that use VG10 the main one being Mcusta Zanmai which is why I used it specifically in this comment.
VG-10 can be very, very different depending on the heat treat. I've had and used a few VG-10 knives and if you didn't tell me Id have thought they were different steels!
Love your work. Thanks
Best video explanation , THANK YOU
Best steel for kitchen knives IMHO. AEBL The main issue with this steel is the fact that you generally wont find it run harder than 61 rc in production or non custom knives. In custom knives it's easily run 63+ rc and its the best overall kitchen knife steel imho. Hard, VERY tough, very easy to sharpen like a carbon steel but holds an edge considerably better, extremely fine grained, extremely tough, etc. Superb edge stability especially for very fine and thin edges like you'd want in a kitchen knife of the highest quality. Good steel choices for high end kitchen knives... 52100, aebl, SG2. New steels like AU and Magnacut are very promising but I don't expect the traditional burdened Japanese to be using that any time ever. If I had to rank the traditional Japanese steels I would say blue #2 and blue #1 are by far the best. AS is too brittle especially at higher hardness. White steel is much too easy to abrade and too reactive imo there is really no benefit in using it over blue for a kitchen knife, unless you're making the knives in which case white steel is obviously easier to forge, easier to grind, easier to work with, so ofc as a makrer you have the incentive to act like it's better. For the end user, it's not.
What a great and in-depth video
Hey, great video. What a great idea to do this educational video 😉
Glad you liked it ;)
Such a good video! Thanks for sharing all of this knowledge.
Thanks for the eye friendly background.
ZDP189, R2 ,Blue Super :D
and I’m gonna have HAP40 and
Silver 3.
I wanna know about SRS 15 for now.
Can you recommend a ultra-premium steel for Arizona law enforcement knives? Due to our low humidity, we do not need corrosion resistance, but toughness and edge retention (wear resistance). Our cops use their knives for everything! - screwdrivers, cutting through fences, slicing seat belts from burn victims, et al.
We do not need a recommendation on a specific brand of knives - we will find a manufacturer once we learn which steel is ideal for Arizona LEOs. Can you make a recommendation?
These knives are for food prep - you don't want any of the brittle stuff (the same stuff that rusts easily) for any of those tasks. They WILL snap. You want a steel that maxes out on the toughness scale.
Do you find that some steels feel "toothier" and hold more "bite" as you go up in grits, compared to others? I often see this debated, but in my experience, it definitely seems to be a trait independent of sharpening consistency.
Yep I totally experience that too, i think it hast to do with the grain stricture of the steel since while sharpening you will (depending on the grit) eventually remove metal at the scale of the individual grains. -> the finer the grain structure the less toothy the edge.
@@wlhlmknrd6456 Yeah, I've been led to believe that and that it's related to carbide size too.
We find that this question gets asked a lot. In our experience some steels don't benefit from going to a super fine finish. Traditional Japanese stainless steels usually feel best around a 3k finish, where as German stainless knives usually feel best around 1k, and carbon steels and powdered stainless steels can be taken up about as high as you'd like (within reason, the edge youd put a a razor will be a touch too refined for a kitchen knife). Imagine a lower grit stone creates the teeth on your edge, a higher grit will polish the teeth where they are making contact. Should you continue to grind PAST those teeth you will create newer, smaller teeth on every stone that you progress to. Softer steels like the German variety we've discussed tend to burnish on higher grits and lose the tooth quicker than other options. I think higher grits are a great tool, but we often discuss most of your work being done on a lower grit stone, and if you spend too long on your high grits you polish away your teeth!
@@WormyLeWorm Yep exactly - chromium carbides are pretty beefy fellas, probably one of the reasons stainless steals usually feel toothier than their carbon counterparts.
Would have been interesting to hear a take on a steel for a "beginner friendly" or "first high end knife". I've always been a home chef and am just getting into purchasing a nice knife and am leaning towards r2, specifically yu kurosaki's line of bunkas. And advice from those of you who are pros? I do have some (although not a lot) of experience with different steels + in sharpening as I've carried pocket knives my whole life.
It's a pretty decent choice for a first knife - I say go for it!
I have a R2 Gyuto and a 1000-3000 grit whetstone and a 3000 grit ceramic honing rod to get started. Is this a good package? This is my first step into Japanese knives and I was reading alot before buying. My knife is still razos sharp after cooking a few meals and cutting a whole lot of vegetables. I tried sharpening some cheaper European style knives with my equipment and I got them pretty sharp. So I'm looking forward to sharpen my good knive in 1/2 year or so.
Yes, your kit is great! But i will highly recommend you in buying a leather strop or making one, it will take off the microburr after sharpening or stroping, making your knife feel a lot sharper. I personally don't like honing rod, because it's a lot harder to maintain the angle and I just feel a better result by changing the honing rod to a leather strop with 1 or 2 micron diamond compound. And it's not necessary, but since you are planning in sharpening 1-2 times a year, I would recommend buying a 400 grit whetstone
@@erickzhou5314 Thanks for the comment. Man, I love this community!
That is a great kit indeed! As said below by Erick I agree that a strop will certainly help you take that edge from sharp to scary sharp! The other thing that I may recommend would be a lower grit stone. Depending on how dull you let your R2 get it may take a while to cut a new edge in on a 1k, and if you plan on continuing to sharpen cheaper softer steels, a 200-500 grit stone would not only make that much faster, but leave a more aggressive bite that will have them cutting a lot better. Try finishing those guys on a 1k and then stropping for a more stable longer lasting edge!
@@SharpKnifeShop Yeah maybe I'll get a coarser whetstone and repurpose an old leather belt. Thanks for the advice!
Thk for wonderful knife knowledge sharing🎊
Thanks for watching!
I always Go for Stainless Steel Knives!
In my experience I watched many knife skills videos and they are professionals too, I observed they always used Stainless Steel Knives and Cleavers!
I never saw any one on the professional level using a Carbon one, that Rusts easily & quickly, looks Ugly Spots, requires High Maintenance Skills, Regular Proper Treatment Skills, Very Expensive as well!
With the advancement of technology in making Stainless Steel Knives, these are becoming more powerful than Carbon Steel in those edge retention, feel & no maintenance aspects.
In the future we don't even compare Stainless Steel with Carbon Steel and everyone can easily go for Stainless Steel only!
That gentlemen from school of wok Chinese channel uses Stainless Steel only and sells that same single knife on their website and also said on that video that they have one person come to them on regular basis for sharpening some 70 to 100 Knives daily!
When professionals themselves prefer to sharpen more often their Stainless Steel than to maintain a Carbon steel then why should people go for Carbon on a Domestic Home Based purposes?
because carbon is better lil bro
@@jasondeblou6226 It is not. Some carbon knives I have used may have become a little sharper after sharpening than my stainless knives, but they did not keep that sharpness long enough to justify the extra maintenance. My VG10 and SG2 blades are also razor-sharp but they won't rust in a matter of minutes if you do not clean and dry them immediately after cutting a single piece of fruit or vegetable. In the end a knife is a cooking tool and I want to get my food ready, not spend all my time cleaning knives.
I don't understand why you give R2 a 2 for sharpenability and HAP40 a 2.5 for sharpenability but say that R2 isn't that hard to sharpen and HAP40 is very hard to sharpen ?
Magnacut stainless steel is a game changer.
What would you choose: hap-40 or zdp-189
Checking out your shop, it doesn't look like you sell monosteel knives like MAC and some lower end Shuns. However, it would be interesting to see your rating of the steels they use. MAC claims a "proprietary" high Mo AUS8, Shun Kanso is AUS-10A. I have used an 8" MAC chef's knife for decades and love it. Easy to sharped, wicked sharp, stays sharp much longer than Henckels or Wusthof.
What about white/yellow/blue carbon steel? Are dose just different names for the ones you mentioned?
Oh no, my favourite shirogami 1 finished last 😢
You should do one of these with u.s steels
Totally right about steel, my favourites are also blue super and SG2. But amazingly wrong about how to give something a rating out of 5 stars :p
Hello thanks for your videos, can you tell me what you think about these knife makers? xinzuo, xituo, syokami, turwho and TUO
Hi, I am wondering if my 67 layers 10Cr15CoMoV core Damascus steel could be dark etched in coffee. Any advice?
How about molybdenum vanadium?
This vid was the nerdiest knife vid ive ever heard! I loved it! Thanks dude. Lol
So knowledgeable
There is always a "best" but it depends on the task. When the carbon content is the same, stainless steel is better, chrome carbides are several magnitudes harder than iron carbides. Carbon steel knives are only popular because of the patina they get and because of all the flat-out ignorance of the bushcraft community.
How does AUS-10 compare to VG-10?
TOP Vid - Congrat !! > Knife Oscar worthy...!!!
Any comments on VG-xeos?
Any thoughts on Apex Ultra?
Could you do a video about white #2 vs blue #2 as well?
How would you compare and contrast AUS-10 and VG-10? Thanks.
It's hard to compare these steels, they are close in composition. So in real life, as the author said, you need to pay attention to the heat treatment (as result hardness, and toughness) and geometry of the knife. Aus-10 able to get 59-60HRC hardness, VG-10 typically has 61HRC. Aus10 has better toughness, so it has better resistance to chipping. In most cases it's hard to feel difference between theese steels.
SG2 toughness of 4 but Hap40 gets 3? >.>
I'm very partial to high vanadium content steels. I really like 10v personally. Generally all my favorite steels tend to be powder metallurgy tool steels.
If I had to pick a Japanese steel, maybe hap40. If I had to pick a carbon steel, definitely aogami super.
Edit 2: the sharpening thing is just my experience. I have a lot of different abrasive types for a lot of situations, and likely it might not reflect how some people see this.
Edit: idk if I quite agree with the sharpenability part. Very hard steels tend to sharpen quite nicely considering the geometry behind the edge is thin. Thinness is a bigger factor than anything else when it comes to ease of sharpening, and I've noticed the harder the steel, the easier it is to deburr.
If you lump thinning into sharpening then it becomes a much bigger factor. I would honestly classify that more into grindability . Just sharpening the edge tends to not be much of a challenge though.
Isn't Hap-40 Powdered Steel? Not just R2
Yes you are correct, our bad!
for most - it’s high carbon stainless
Most higher-end stainless steels contain more carbon than most "carbon" steels anyway.
Thxxxxx
I think your final point about carbon steel being ideal for sushi chefs pretty much nails it.
Other than that specific profession, carbon steel really doesn't outperform stainless, it just doesn't.
Home cooks are never going to want to sharpen that often or spend so much effort keeping rust off.
Western cooks need a knife that can take a beating, at least chicken bones.
If steel doesn't retain an edge well, then sharpenability must be better. Otherwise, you will be spending a lot of time on those stones.
How about knives with blades sandwiched from two different steels?
Horses for courses, surprise surprise. The "best knife steel" depends on the conditions of use.
You have as much idea about knife steels as I do about space flights.... VG10 is a better steel than Super Aogami, HAP 40?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
I think you fell down the stairs on your head...
considering most amaricians are lazy most will say ss. the super steels suck
... most Americans*. And everybody is lazy, not only them.
noooooooooooo magnacut is the best
My favorites so far are R2 and Aogami 2. Most of my knives are made from them. I've actually found Aogami 2 to be very forgiving, and yes, incredibly easy to sharpen.
For sure, truly ANY of the traditional Japanese blades are all WELL-above average for the home cook, or even professional for that matter. Also, there are such small (tangible yet esoteric differences), between AS, A#1 & A#2, Shiro #1 & #2…YES the most professional of professionals could tell you which one is which, however right off from the stone/strop, day 1 of the work- week, they are SO CLOSE - I would say choose which steel most both compliments/benefits your life… . .for myself, I ge really want the sharpenst edge I can fry, so givin all of the afore mentioned choices, I would without a doubt choose Shiro#1, then Shiro #2, then A#1, then A#1, and lastly AS - I sI care MKRE for the sharpness of the bevel-edge, than the duration for which you have for
E-sharpen, or even the angels which you should sharpen the other traditional
Steels, which less Carbides. For the “new-age shit,” I’m all about 52100❣️ I hope this helps, any questions, please reach out, and I will do my best to get back with you in a timely manner.
@@Chihuahuauno1 true. any one of them is outdated obsolete over hyped but a kitchen knife demands so little from steel that it literally doesn't matter. what really matter is the knife itself, how it's made, it's ergos, it's balance, the grind and cutting geometry will matter 1000x more than steel choice. and for the record, the white steels were never intended for kitchen knives. the blue steels were the ones that were made for kitchen knives, kitchen knives made in the traditional, crude manner where hot chunk of metal is thrown into a fire and then hammered on. Blue #1 is considered the most ideal of those steels for a kitchen knife. AS is brittle asf and doesn't even have the abrasion resistance dollar store stainless steel.
Ginsan is the best. No question about it
Great contribution to understanding Japanese knife steels, but the part of "other nationalities steel types" is the biggest bs ever.
Let's review the statement.
"Comparison between a German stainless steel and a Japanese carbon steel:
Typically, that $1 to $30 knife that you bought at Walmart that’s stainless is not going to stay sharp as long as a carbon steel, but a Japanese stainless steel is going to stay sharp for longer than a Japanese carbon steel."
Which translates to me something like
"Comparison between a German car and a Japanese lawn mower:
Typically, that $500 electric Chinese bicycle that you bought at Walmart is not going to be as fast as the Japanese lawn mower, but the Japanese car is faster than a Japanese lawn mower."
Yes - it does not make sense. There are great German steels, and French (e.g. XC75), and others. But if you don't know anything about them, just say it.
As for Carbon steel I'd say it's probably not good for most, just like a Ferrari makes for a terrible daily commuter.
My favorite carbon steel for yanagiba is Aogami 2. Perfect balance steel. My 14 years Aogami 2 Yanagiba never rust
How do you keep it from rust?
@@razbiton173 never cut acidic food and wipe it dry after washing the knife. For the first 8 years i never used any oil on my knife and it's fine. Now for prevention I'm using knife oil
Great overview and explanation. Yet, at 2:15 it's Nickel*, not "Nickle".
For me, probably SLD/VS1 and Hap40. I think, they are a good balance between sharpenability, stain resistance and sharpness. But I like the other ones, too :-)
Hap40 is a cobalt based high speed tool steel that was never intended for use in cutlery and only became a thing because it was promoted by one large US based knife seller called CKTG. Other than bc of their influence no one uses or suggests this obscure tool steel for knives. and the claims they make about it, like "voodoo steel," are a load of hot air. You wont find anyone in Japan using that. Even outside of Japan it's a very niche obscure steel that is only used in like maybe a tenth of one percent of knives for export, even less in the JDM, and again this is only because one company called CKTG decided to promote it thinking it looked good on paper. This steel is not stainless. It's vastly more difficult than anything else you will find used in a kitchen knife to grind and sharpen. It doesn't play well with normal whetstones because of it's vanadium content, an alloy not generally used in kitchen knives for that exact reason. It's prone to warping so good luck finding anything out of the box that's ground thinly enough to be worth the trade off, otherwise good luck avoiding knives with curves in them. And for all that hassle it barely has more "edge retention' than a very common, easy to sharpen, actually stainless, actually made for cutlery steel like SG2... which unlike hap40 is used in thousands and thousands of different knife models and is extremely common. I think the issue is, the Japanese wont give outsiders those steels to use in their own knives, so that's why I'd guess CKTG decided to do the experiment with the cobalt tool steel...good for them, the marketing seems to be working. Not that it really matters. Steel is one of the least important things in a kitchen knife. Most of the traditional Japanese steels aren't super amazing, but it doesn't matter because kitchen knives don't require all that much from a steel.