Want to understand what the Bible says about hell? Read about heaven! with Lee Strobel
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ม.ค. 2022
- Lee Strobel joins me on the first podcast of the year to talk about how understanding heaven will help us make sense of hell. What are some misconceptions we have about hell? Is there evidence for the supernatural realm? Can near death experiences confirm the existence of the soul?
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I thank God for the ministries of both Lee Strobel and Alisa Childers. May God use them to bless many!
I am subscribed to your channel. It is very much underrated. I am surprised it has not grown more.
+1 Mark😊
@Mark Corbett have you had any comments deleted from this thread? I have attempted, twice to interact with this thread and it seems, at least as far as I can tell, that the comments appear and persist for a short time but then are deleted.
@@gingrai00 , I haven't had any deleted from this thread that I know of. Did your comments include links to other videos or materials? They might not allow that.
@@MarkWCorbett1 I think, maybe, there could be a length limit🥴🤓… I broke the one up that was getting deleted and it seems to be holding😅
"If God would concede me His omnipotence for 24 hours, you would see how many changes I would make in the world. But if He gave me His wisdom too, I would leave things as they are."
~ J. M. L. Monsabre
Remember, God is not Fair, He is JUST. There is a huge difference. So the torment is Justified no matter what it is. You bring up a lot of good points. Thank you.
Amazing conversation. My husband also had a near death experience. Same thing, he saw the doctors from above. He saw hell. Called out to a Jesus and a hand larger than life lifted him out. It changed his life and converted him. Got him to Confession for sure.
EVERY NDE person sees the local majority God of his/her country. lol
Lol, typo. There’s only one Jesus, obviously.
@@GratiaPrima_ be careful. There are many Jesus entities, demonic entities masquerading as the true Jesus. Test the spirits, as the bible says.
@@theresetrietsch8329 yep. These visions are unbiblical and sound like tradition and Dantes inferno rather than scripture. The judgment is not yet so demons are not there torturing ppl bc it was made for Thier destruction/judgment so they r not there having fun torturing ppl. These stories are all based on misunderstanding of scripture and traditions/wrong teachings so I put no faith in them. Paul wasn't permitted to speak about what he saw or heard yet these ppl are allowed to report gruesome detail? Also it says they are In the PRESEnCe of God...not separation from God...so idk where that description came from. I trust the bible only. God bless you
@@sanjeevgig8918 Any comment on why Muslims in the middle east have visions of Jesus and convert to Christianity?
I do believe the true God will be revealed to us... for every knee will bow and every tongue will confess.
Great video. My mom had a near death experience when she was in her early twenties. She floated out of her body and saw blood in a tube being drained out of her body. She saw medical personal rush in her hospital room and start performing resuscitation. Through all of this my mom said she had no fear and felt nothing but warmth and deeply loved. She said through the years (40 years later) whenever things get tough she thinks back to that moment and it comforts her. She is a believer and knows eternity with the Lord awaits.
If you are amazed by the fine tuned nature of the universe, one can only imagine how excellent a new heaven and new earth will be and in a new body. Our capacities and the new revelations will make for a place of worship and purpose that will be a thrill in an eternity with our Creator & Lord!
At 32:50 Strobel mentions "gnashing of teeth" yet there will also be "weeping," which insinuates regret.
I've had friends say if they go to hell they'll be at the bar drinking beer all day. I say maybe but the good "feeling" and taste from the beer will be gone because even that is a grace from God. So you'll be compelled to drink and never be satisfied. And. that is just one small grace that will be gone.
Years ago when I was quite depressed I began to wish for death. Then I heard about this notion that people who believe in reincarnation believe that if you make big mistakes in life (including suicide) you have to go back and relive all of that until you 'get it right'. I thought that's not true, the truth is probably far worse. And yet the power of that idea caused me to want to move through my suffering and not faint. Finally the Lord took away that darkness. But sometimes people need to realize that things could be worse and find hope in their struggle
This is very sad.
In Le Strobels trailer for the movie over the book he is promoting here, there are some disturbing names with; like Francis Chan who has moved over to the Catholic corner and Howard Storm who claims he was in hell and then in heaven where he met Jesus. There are several interviews with Howard Storm, f.x. one where he is talking with Karen Swain; a woman who is known within the new age community. They talk about angelic encounters and all sorts of crazy things.
The Near death experiences should be questioned. Raymond Moody has written books about NDE where people claim to have out of body experiences and claim to have been in hell and heaven and meeting deseased relatives. Raymond Moody is also involved in new age stuff. He embraces reincarnation.
Test the Spirits -
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out.
1. John 4:1
Recently, as a Christian, I had been struggling with the idea of non-existence, and I got scared by the thought that after this life consciousness disappears. I knew I had no reason to be scared, and that all I needed was faith in God to take care of my soul after death, but it was one of those irrational things I just couldn’t shake off entirely. Your talk about the near death experience has given me some relief in that area, it didn’t even occur to me that I should read up on near death experiences. Thank you 🙏
Don't forget to look into Pam Reynolds NDE. Her story is the best medically documented NDE. As she experienced an NDE during her brain surgery. She was hooked up to heart machines, brain scans machines, etc.
@@benstr8156 Oh wow that’s amazing! I’ll definitely look into her story!
If anyone here wants to study the biblical evidence for annihilationism as Lee said he did (and he found it to be strong), here are three resources:
1. Rethinking Hell. We have a webpage with lots of videos, podcasts, debates, and articles. We also have a friendly facebook group where you can ask questions and meet others interested in this issue (including myself!).
2. I also have a collection of my own material that you can hopefully find if you google my name together with something like "hell" or "annihilationism" or "conditional immortality."
3. Most important of all: your Bible!!!
May God bless and guide all who are seeking His truth!
Listen to the next thing Lee says. The position falls short.
@@Strongtower
Yes, Lee says that the position falls short. That is his judgment.
I'm encouraging thinking Christians to look at the evidence on their own and make their own judgment. Listen to both sides. Study the Bible on this topic. Are you against that?
So how do you make sense of Jesus’s many teachings in hell and it’s current condition for those who reject Christ? The rich man in hell was not annihilated he was experiencing the torment.
@@MarkWCorbett1 No I'm not against it. I have and agree with Lee. Look at the original Greek. It will make sense then.
@@rosieds4996 , you are asking good questions!
I agree that the rich man was not annihilated, but was experiencing torment. However, the rich man was in the intermediate state, before the final resurrection and final judgment. He was in Hades, not Gehenna (Gehenna is usually translated "hell" in most modern English translations). So what was happening to him then does not really tell us what will happen at the final judgment. The story does not tell us that he would remain in torment forever. Temporary torment is consistent with annihilationism.
As far as Jesus's many teachings on hell, they actually support conditional immortality and annihilationism. Here are some examples:
CSB17 Matthew 10:28 Don't fear those who kill the body but are not able to kill the soul; rather, fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
CSB17 Luke 13:1 At that time, some people came and reported to him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices.
2 And he responded to them, "Do you think that these Galileans were more sinful than all the other Galileans because they suffered these things?
3 No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all perish as well.
4 Or those eighteen that the tower in Siloam fell on and killed-- do you think they were more sinful than all the other people who live in Jerusalem?
5 No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all perish as well."
CSB17 John 3:16 For God loved the world in this way: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life.
1 Peter 3:15
“But in your hearts sanctify Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give a defense to everyone who asks you the reason for the hope that is in you. But respond with gentleness and respect,”
I believe there is a heaven and hell because the Word of God speaks of it. Period!!
Amen!!!
Did they say otherwise
@@flowerpower3618 - I didn’t say they didn’t. I just stated my belief.
Unfortunately there’s a ton of bad beliefs you could also believe “because the Word of God speaks it.”
The earth is flat
It’s ok in some situation to own people as property
Having concubines and many wives; fine…
Flogging people - good
Drown people; hey if you made them.
There was a guy named Moses and a mass Exodus from Egypt - whoops, not so much.
Careful what you believe because a book says it. Not the best method to solely justify your beliefs.
@@ardbegthequestion
Your atheism, has blinded you. You are ignorant of the scriptures and twisting them to your own destruction.
No where does the scriptures teach the earth is flat
Lee is one of my favorite apologists and he gave such great encouragement to me when I saw his interview about the case for heaven . I have lost several people I love including a brother and close friend. They all were Christians so I grieve with hope but its still very hard to accept they are gone . That being said I know we will be reunited in heaven so thanks Alisa for making this with Lee. Your a lovely sister and Lee is a brilliant and real person and you both demonstrate the love of Jesus ...God bless u
This is what my opinion is on near Death experiences is to me.
When doctors say you were clinically dead does not mean you are dead. I believe you are dead when God decides you are. You are in some state of unconscious that God puts you in in till God decides it's over . Now God might decide to give you a message in this state to help his kingdom.
God doesnt need to think about anything ,He already knows Before we was born.
Dane - when you are underwater for 30 minutes and cannot breath. Are you clinically dead? probably.
Are you really dead? again, probably.
You should look up Dr. Mary Neal;
She was stuck underwater in a kayak for 30 minutes.
Actually being (fully) dead isn't a big deal. If Jesus raised people from the dead, why can't God bring people back to life from NDE (fully) dead?
At 43:58 Childers makes an excellent statement which can be used as a response to someone inquiring if their loved one is in Hell.
"I can't know everything, but God is perfectly just and fair."
Yes, God is good but God will punish those who reject the gospel, no one has a leg to stand on if that person rejects Jesus Christ.
It seems to be an easy way to avoid having to state what she clearly thinks happens to dead unbelievers.
Exactly @truncated7644 . Yes your loved one is in hell but I dont want to say it to your face
Wow! So awesome to have Lee Strobel on! I read his new book The Case for Heaven and loved it so much!!!
Amazing conversation! It is definitely something many struggle with especially when we know people who have died without accepting Christ as Savior. We need to be digging deeper into the goodness of God!
So good! Confirmation of what seems to be pretty clear in scripture. ❤️ Blessed by your channel and ministry.
Watching this video made me cry. Reminded me that God truly and faithfully loves us since the beginning.
Beautiful interview. I love discussions like this where it’s ok to ask questions. I look forward to reading Lees book. May we all be courageous in sharing our faith in Jesus Christ to those who don’t him and have this peace.
Great to see Lee Strobel . I have his books in my life Library. Lee is a great writer. Great topic on He'll and Heaven revealed in the Bible.
This was such a beautiful conversation. Thank you both for doing this in biblical truth and not in opinion.
Awesome! Inspiring! Informative! Thank you Alisa & Lee. Blessings.
What a powerful and uplifting ending. Alisa, thank you so much for this interview and all your work.
The idea that almost all people who ever lived will burn in the lake of fire, in a constant conscious pain and agony forever and ever, cannot ever be uplifting. It is always horrifying, depressing, sorrowful, agonizing and utterly hopeless.
@@theodosios2615
If you read the Bible in a certain way, like in a very literal manner and this manner leads to a conclusion that God is either a total failure or pure evil. Does this mean that you have to accept God being a total failure or evil?
The truth is, that if we scrutinize God torturing somebody for a literal eternity with wisdom, we come to only two options, either God is truly loving and does not want to torture anybody for eternity, he hates even the idea of doing that to His own children whom he created but He failed to the most horrifying proportions so that even Him, being all powerful, still, cannot do anything about it, cannot do nothing but torture most of His human children He created for a literal eternity without any hope or ability to stop it, ever again.
The other option is that He is truly all powerful and He does not need to torture anybody for eternity, he has the powers and the ability to stop all torture in the universe and fix every creature to behave in a good and loving manner and to put the whole universe into the right and perfect order but in His core nature, He is not loving but evil and He wants to torture most of people for eternity, that is His natural desire, therefore He will torture them for all eternity.
So which of the three options do you think is the correct one? 1 - God loves His creatures and does not want to torture them but He failed to the most horrifying proportions and cannot stop the torture ever again. 2 - God can stop the torture because He is all powerful but He is not loving in His core nature and will torture people for eternity out of His personal desire. 3 - We are reading those verses which talks about the torment forever and ever too literally, even though they should not be read like that.
Thank you Alisa,, just subscribed, you seem so genuine with your stories of church plays, love the interview, and you have a calmness about you. Looking forward to hearing more.
About Hell.
I'm reasonably confident, even though i wasn't around in 1880, that preachers then, would have talked more than today about "the fires of Hell". But today, most of the fire has burned out, so to speak,and we hear Hell described as "eternal separation from God."
SO! Somehow, we've gone from, "fire" where the rich man (in Luke?) says .."for I am tormented in this flame"...to...some sort of "cosmic Isolation-closet" in how we view Hell. We've gone from burning to a giant "time-out". Who started this? In what year?
You won't get an exact date. Probably happened slowly over time.
@@Strongtower No doubt it *grew* over time. But it had to start somewhere. With Billy Graham? No? Before Billy Graham got started, did Billy SUNDAY preach that? Charles Finney? Charles Spurgeon? from some Notes in the Scofield reference bible? It amazes me how so few in the churches try to track down these sorts of things.. . .maybe I'll look deeper myself, but I've probably got another dozen questions and there's only so many hrs in a day. :) I have read the whole New testament, 3 times in 3 different translations. Really grateful for the good work that Alisa Childers is doing with her TH-cam videos.
The point is there is no good news without hell being real.
Amazing discussion...really appreciate both of you!!!
Oh my goodness. I had to do a second look as I turned Lee on with facial hair! However as soon as one hears that sweet mans voice, recognition is instant! Big follower from my 6 year job in Chicago ever since. Got to listen now. Vicky in S. D. Ca. So Blessed over years with Lee Strobel🙂
I saw that play, too. My sister saw it and I think it was a catalyst for her conversion as a young teen. The skit has been around awhile.
Love both of your ministries! ❤️❤️
I am now convinced of Conditional Immorality. I appreciate how fair these 2 are on that doctrine. I also often hear dogmatic statements that I don't believe are stated in the bible. Such as the immortality of the soul. I believe we were created to live forever, but God is able to destroy. As it says 'Do not fear man who can destroy the body, but fear God who can destroy both body and soul in hell'. I believe that when people die right now, their soul goes to a waiting place. Probably like Lazerus and the rich man. Those of faith go to paradise, and those without faith go to a prison. But in the final judgement, the lost will be cast into the lake of fire where their souls are destroyed. But the punishment for specific sins occur in the prison. Then only those who believe in Jesus will inherit eternal life.
This was so good! Thank you for sharing.
Just finished listening to Dr. Peter J. Williams (Tyndale House) on Dr. James Tour's channel, and now listening to Lee Strobel. I'm feeling full.
What an awesome video; thank you; all praise and glory to our triune God!
A few years before my grandpa died, they lost him for a few minutes during surgery. He later told grandma that during that time he felt he went to heaven and someone he somehow knew was his sister, but all his sisters were still alive and he didn't recognize her as one of them anyway. Grandma happened to remember that years ago grandpa's mother had told her that she had had a miscarriage before grandpa was born and had never told him.
Jessica, we get our beliefs from the bible and not our experiences as the devil can give us many experiences....no one goes to heaven till the resurrection at the second coming and there are no near death experiences only deep dreams from medication while in surgery...the devil knows all about our history--
@@DavidKing-qd3sp,
You just ignored her entire story.
@@DavidKing-qd3sp what of the criminal on the cross?
@@skullkid112 ...........Jesus did not take the thief to Paradise because in John 20: 17 He told Mary on Sunday morning to not detain Him because He had not yet ascended...Punctuation and paragraph division was not in the original text but was put in about 12-15th century, so they put the comma in the wrong place - the comma should go after the word today and not before it....there are other examples of comma's in the wrong place in the KJV as in Acts 3.26 and 19.12 ....so, most people as yourself have a misunderstanding of many bible teachings...as I said there is no hell and the Sabbath is friday evening to saturday evening and not sunday....you don't go to heaven when you die you go to your grave and await the resurrection....at the 2nd coming you are resurrected REv. 20. 5 and 1st Thess 4. 16 and 1st Cor. 15 . 51-54.....the SDA church has the correct view of scripture...there are over 65000 faiths teaching something different...so now you know. Thanks for saying hello, all the best.
@@DavidKing-qd3sp hmm, you've given me much to think on lol
This was fascinating! Thank you, Alisa Childers and Lee Strobel. This makes me want to research NDE's.
Jennifer - near death experiences is a demonic lie to get you into spiritualism....we get our doctrines from scripture and not from someone else's expereince or even our own....the devil is behind this lie - does the bible mention it anywhere---you have been warned, for we get what we look for and the devil is watching as a roaring lion.........read the book - the fire that consumes and you will learn that hell is annihilation and not forever in a burning pit, as the bible clearly teaches when you read it properly
This is really helpful. Thank you, Alisa and Lee!
I am excited to read this book! Thank you for talking about these topics!
I was just earlier this week introduced to some of the arguments in favor of annihilationism and was very concerned whether I have been taught a false doctrine of eternal conscience torment. I have been looking at the scriptures references they cited in favor of this interpretation, and have just been praying that God would guide me into the truth. I'm thankful to hear Alisa and Lee discuss it. I did not know that annihilationism has been a rising trend. I'm thankful that Lee admitted that there is a pretty good case for annihilationism- just not a strong ENOUGH one. I also felt that there was a somewhat strong case, so I have been concerned trying to figure out the truth. I look forward to studying this more, and ultimately I will learn on God and trust Him. I will not get everything right or figure everything out, but I will do my best to know truth and live faithfully according to it, out of Love for Yahweh, the Almighty God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Praise be to God that He is merciful, patient, and abounding in steadfast love and faithfulness.
I really needed this today❤
So enjoying this!
AMEN, Alisa! God is just!!
This was EXCELLENT. Thank you!
I do think it’s actual fire though because the Bible identifies the actual matter that makes up the “lake of fire” sulfur is an example. I think it’s easy for God to make a fire that does not illuminate hells darkness.
Really interesting topic & great podcast! God bless you both, families, & you ministries. I heard of the Case of Christ just the title. Amazing we hear from Lee himself
I am a huge fan of you both. Thanks so much
Amen...great discussion that needs to be heard and understood.
God doesn't SEND anyone to hell, we WALK there by the wisdom of the world that we SWALLOWED.
When we swallow the wisdom of the world we are guided to the doorstep of death and hell...the wisdom of God cries out so that we may embrace "her" and be guided by her to receive faith in Christ Jesus who sets us free! 🤗
Proverbs 5
1 My son, attend unto MY wisdom wisdom, and bow thine ear to MY understanding:
2 That thou mayest regard discretion, and that thy lips may keep knowledge.
3 For the lips of a STRANGE WOMAN drop as an honeycomb, and her mouth is smoother than oil:
4 But her end is bitter as wormwood, sharp as a twoedged sword.
5 Her feet go down to death; her steps take hold on hell.
6 Lest thou shouldest ponder the path of life, her ways are moveable, that thou canst not know them.
7 Hear me now therefore, O ye children, and depart not from the words of my mouth.
8 REMOVE thy way far from her, and COME NOT NIGH the door of her house:
9 Lest thou give thine honour unto others, and thy years unto the cruel:
10Lest strangers be filled with thy wealth; and thy labours be in the house of a stranger;
11 And thou mourn at the last, when thy flesh and thy body are consumed,
12 And say, How have I hated instruction, and my heart despised reproof;
13 And have not obeyed the voice of my teachers, nor inclined mine ear to them that instructed me!
It is written that those who hate the wisdom of God LOVE death and that's why they refuse to embrace her...they KNOW that if they do, "she" will give them faith in Christ Jesus and He will set them free.
Proverbs 8:36
“But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death.”
Philippians 3
18 For many WALK, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: 19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who MIND EARTHLY THINGS.)
The wisdom of the world is earthly and they have set their minds on "her" which is the reason that they do not have faith in Christ Jesus.
We are instructed to WALK in the wisdom of God towards them that are outside of God's house to show them the way IN.
Colossians 1
28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
29 Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.
OUTSIDE of Christ Jesus = imperfect
IN Christ through faith = presented perfect because HE is perfect
Praise God for His grace through Christ Jesus!
this is a fascinating subject in regards to NDE. once i came out of a religious cult that taught reincarnation, i tried to read anything i could about heaven. i got a book by "eben alexander" that was about his NDE & heaven. after just reading the prologue, i felt an "ick".. once i researched more about him, it turns out he was incredibly new age & believes in reincarnation. i threw his book out immediately. but he said on his website that during his NDE, he had "life reviews" of several of his lives. i would love to hear more about this perspective!
Timestamps:
18:20 Proving the soul exists
22:02 NDE's agreement with Christian theology
24:24 What is Hell
32:18 Do people in Hell want to repent?
33:56 Torture versus torment
35:33
Great video! Thanks for sharing.
Oh Alisa, you're such a gem. I love your infectious smile, your awesome as an interviewer. You have great channel, great guests. You make me smile... and I'm in a dark health woe place, battling to see good in anything. You literally brighten up my life (lived 90% in recliner). God bless you and Yours 💙💜💛🧡💚
dear, how are you by now?
Thank you for your efforts to clarify a difficult topic. So many great minds have drawn different conclusions about what the Bible says about hell. Human minds discussing an infinite God. I choose to contemplate John 3:16. "...the righteous will not perish but have everlasting life." Thank you Jesus!
D...........Hell is annihilation, not eternity in a pit of fire, for God is love...Ex.21.6 says the slave will serve his master forever but forever only means his lifetime and not eternity, same with Jonah 1:17 and 2;6 where forever is only 3 days...Jeremiah 17.27 says the gates of Jerusalem will burn with unquenchable fire but they are not burning today becuase unquenchable fire means the fire will not go out until the object in the fire is burned up as does Mt.3.12 when speaking of the wicked burning with unquenchable fire...will we enjoy heaven as we listen to our loved ones scream for eternity....and the story of Lazarus is a parable not to be taken as a literal event
St. Jacinta -"If men only knew what awaits them in eternity, they would do everything in their power to amend their lives"
St. Maria Faustina Kowalska -"Today, I was led by an angel to the Chasms of Hell....."
"I, Sister Faustina Kowalska, by the order of God, have visited the Abysses of Hell so that I might tell souls about it and testify to its existence...the devils were full of hatred for me, but they had to obey me at the command of God, What I have written is but a pale shadow of the things I saw. But I noticed one thing: That most of the souls there are those who disbelieved that there is a hell."
"Let the sinner know that he will be tortured throughout all eternity, in those senses which he made use of to sin. I am writing this at the command of God, so that no soul may find an excuse by saying there is no hell, or that nobody has ever been there, and so no one can say what it is like...how terribly souls suffer there! Consequently, I pray even more fervently for the conversion of sinners."
"O My Jesus, I would rather be in agony until the end of the world, amidst the greatest sufferings, than offend you by the least sin."
But there is heaven:
St. Catherine of Siena was permitted by God to see the beauty of a soul in the state of grace. It was so beautiful that she could not look on it; the brightness of that soul dazzled her.
Blessed Raymond, her confessor, asked her to describe to him, as far as she was able, the beauty of the soul she had seen.
”My father,” she answered. “I cannot find anything in this world that can give you the smallest idea of what I have seen.
Oh, if you could but see the beauty of a soul in the state of grace, you would sacrifice your life a thousand times for its salvation. I asked the angel who was with me what had made that soul so beautiful, and he answered me, “It is the image and likeness of God in that soul, and the Divine Grace which made it so beautiful.”
The Reynolds story was on a Coast to Coast episode. One of the most real near death I have ever heard! Beautiful story.
I tell my children to imagine the most beautiful place they have ever seen in a painting, movie , or picture. And then to try to imagine God as the ultimate creator being able to improve on it 100%. It's mind blowingly beautiful, perfect, and breath taking.
thanks Alisa. Love Lee Strobel😊
Love this... heaven wasn't ever a place I saw attractive either. Thank you for touching on that!
I was in a coma and nearly died and went to heaven and God told me that Lee Strobel makes more $$ making up stuff then he ever could have with journalistic integrity.
LOL, too dang true.
"He who corrects a scoffer gets dishonor for himself,
And he who reproves a wicked man gets insults for himself."
-Proverbs 9:6
Love the quote by Luis Palau.
Haha I know that play well! I played the role of a cheerleader in high school. I remember they were about to make Heaven in a similar vein and I protested and insisted they include a river and trees. They went above and beyond with a golden walking bridge which was painted to look fresh every day over a river full of fairy lights. And they grabbed every fake plant in the church and brought them into that room. My memories of it aren't quite so scarring. Sorry you were scarred, Alisa!
I was in that play also, my husband and I and our "children" were killed in a car accident. We were all portraying believers (and are) so the devil and his demons didn't have to come and drag anyone away. 😀
Awesome interview!
lovely interview!
Luke 16:19-31 Being tormented in flames. Do not diminish hell, it is fire , a lake of fire where there is weeping & gnashing of teeth. There is no light for Jesus is the Light so they are in darkness. Must tell the truth! It is real.
The story of lazarus is a parable - there is no place as hell - there is a fire that annihilates the sinner but then the fire goes out for God is love
@@DavidKing-qd3sp sorry, but you are Biblically incorrect. Either Jesus was telling the truth and there IS a hell, or you are telling the truth. Between you and Jesus, who is the liar?
@@Pecos1 ...........the word hell is not in the bible - 4 words are translated as hell but neither one means everlasting punishment - so neither Jesus nor I am lying or confused it's just that you are not educated in scripture--- you are a surface reader of the bible --try digging deeper and learn that God is love and does not torture people for eternity - how sick can you be - this would make Hitler a misunderstood saint...hell is from the Greek word -Gehenna which was a reference to the garbage dump in Jerusalem where the fire would consume you or when the fire went out the worms or maggots would consume you and this is referred to in isaiah 66.24...for the fire must go out for the worms to eat you ...and hades and sheol is the grave and tarturus is the darkness that surrounds the universe...so add to your zeal knowledge..please!......Hell-fire annihilates the sinner and this is what christ meant
I wonder if Lee Strobel will have these Jesus NDEs in his book:
Read and notice at the end that he had a changed life too: IANDS - "I was hit by a car while riding my motorcycle. I died on the operating table. I went through the dark into the light - a soft bluish light. An entity (Jesus to me) was of the light, and the light was a doorway. I was not in this body, but I was as normal as my body here. We spoke without speaking. Joy was all over me. I was relieved to know it is real! Jesus said, "I know it hurts and I know it is bad. You have not done what you said you would do and must go back." I refused. Jesus said, "You will come here, just not now…not yet. I am sorry." Then I was on the operating table and heard someone say, "We got him” and then "Oh my God he is awake.” I AM NOW AN ORDAINED MINISTER AND I PREACH. I WAS SHOWN THERE IS NO HELL. We all go home."
I'll give you another Jesus story...NDERF - Karen: "She took me and placed me in a crystal-like bed and told me to rest because there were beings who wanted to honor and welcome me. I saw beings cued up to greet me. I spied Jesus among them and immediately felt as though something was wrong. I asked the being who brought me, how it was that Jesus wants to honor me. I told her that I was afraid that putting myself at the same level as Jesus would damn me to hell. SHE LAUGHED AND TOLD ME THERE IS NO HELL. We are all equal in spirit form."
Should I keep going? Here's another one for you....Anita Moorjani: "IS THERE A HELL? This is a question I get asked over and over...and THE ANSWER IS HELL NO! I often marvel at how inventive we humans are and at all the stories we’ve created over the millennia to explain what happens to us after death. I was extremely fearful of death before my NDE. I was afraid of karma, and in fact, I believed that my cancer was caused by karma. When I was on the other side, I expected to get punished for all the things I did wrong. I thought there was judgement for all the things we had done wrong. BUT INSTEAD THERE WAS COMPASSION AND UNDERSTANDING FOR WHY I DID WHAT I DID. The souls that cross over take with them their education from their time on earth, as experiences are not judged any more than people are. I understood clearly that there is no judgement on the other side, THERE IS NO MORAL HAMMER THAT IS DROPPED; I saw clearly that this is a human device used by other humans to make us fall in line with the moral majority. Since there is no judgement on the other side, there is no punishment. We gain an understanding of the effects we had on everyone else, but before we are pulled into the human drama of regret or guilt, we are uplifted to understand that we are not judged. We are left with a complete understanding from the other side that there is nothing but love for our souls, and our lives as they were. There is a great section in my book where I address this topic. The section is called "Judgement Day Cometh Not". I WOULD NEVER USE THE PHRASE 'BAD KARMA', AS I DON'T BELIEVE THERE IS SUCH A THING. I simply believe all aspects of life are needed to create the whole. Neither do I believe anymore that we live out all our lives sequentially in linear time, which is the framework that many people have for their ideas about karma. In the NDE state, however, I realized that every moment in all our lives-past, present, future - unknown, unknown, and unknowable-exist simultaneously, as though outside of what we know as time."
What about this story, from a lady who was trafficked starting at 2 years old, and had a drowning NDE...Anne Murphy: "All there was, was the most unconditional love, compassion, pure and total acceptance with no judgement at all. I WAS SHOWN THAT THERE IS NO JUDGEMENT AND NO HELL, NO OPINIONS, NO PUNISHMENT, not like what we are taught here, about a judgemental God and being sent to hell if you're bad, that was not the case. There was no judgement at all from the beings with me or from within myself. It was total compassion, and then remembering I chose my earthly experience. It was just an experience. Love is what we all are. THERE WAS NO SEPARATE GOD KEEPING SCORE AND DOLING OUT JUDGEMENTS AND PUNISHMENTS. THERE WAS NOTHING TO FORGIVE IN THAT STATE OF BEING. There was nothing negative, no shame, guilt, or sense of not being worthy. And I saw that for everybody. THERE WAS NO COMPARISON IN THAT STATE, SO EVERYTHING IS ACCEPTED COMPLETELY. THERE'S NO GREATER THAN, LESS THAN, OR SCORE KEEPING. I saw in my NDE that whether people loved or hated something about me in this human experience, was exactly the same. It was completely neutral. And they showed me what can happen to some people...some people can have a "hellish"" kind of experience...what I saw is that that is when people are still kind of stuck between the human and the...like they haven't fully let go of all the human stuff. Which was self imposed, they believe they need to be judged or they think that's the truth, so that happens. Because we're required to drop it all. It all goes when we return to our true being, our true essence, our true home. Earth is all about contrast. Who we really are is unconditional love. My very abusive adoptive father died on the 28 of June this year and I helped him. He was terrified he was going to "the other place", but in the weeks before, we had many discussions where I reminded him of his true self, what was waiting for him when he "goes home", and that it was not necessary for him to judge himself and become stuck in some "hell" like state, and he didn't. Right at the moment he passed, his true essence was with me, no longer the human and it was pure unconditional love and it went through me and I knew his true being. It was incredible. I shared his death experience with him. He had everyone waiting for him, but I couldn't go in. There's always a barrier. Only those moving fully into "death" pass that barrier."
Have another one....A. Johnson: "I can tell you one thing for sure, THERE WAS NO JUDGEMENT. THERE WAS NOTHING I HAD EVER DONE THAT WASN'T COMPLETELY FORGIVEN, AND 'FORGIVEN' IN THAT CONTEXT MEANT IT WAS GONE. It did not exist. GOD WASN'T HOLDING ME ACCOUNTABLE FOR THAT, God was loving me right through it, and IT WAS TOTAL AND COMPLETE FORGIVENESS. We dont have to prove ourselves to be loved by God. What I learned on the other side is that THERE'S NO JUDGEMENT ON US, NONE, ZIP, NADA. IN THE OTHER REALM THERE'S NO JUDGEMENT BECAUSE THERE'S NOTHING TO JUDGE. We're all pure unconditional love. THERE'S NO HELL, THERE'S NO PUNISHMENT. When you realize there's nothing to forgive, then there's nothing to punish either."
Must I continue on further?...J. Olson: "There was this divine presence coming up behind me. This wise cosmic presence. I'm thinking 'oh my goodness, that's God coming.' And then the guilt began to bubble up again. I had the thought 'I hope I can be forgiven.' I was fearful, very fearful. That's when the download came...truth and wisdom and light and love. The first thing that was communicated was THERE'S NOTHING TO FORGIVE. Everything's in perfect divine order. And I thought 'how can that be?' My life was presented before my eyes. There were these things that I was saying 'no no that was a mistake'. I WAS TOLD THERE ARE NO MISTAKES, YOUR LIFE IS PERFECT. I would say 'that was wrong, I knew it was wrong and I did it anyway.' THIS BEAUTIFUL BEING COMMUNICATED, THOSE ARE YOUR JUDGEMENTS OF IT, NOT OURS, WE LOVE YOU. It was this unconditional outpouring of love. BUT I KNEW IF THAT WAS TRUE OF ME, IT WAS TRUE OF EVERY ONE OF US. I WAS BEING SHOWN THAT IT WASN'T MY FAULT THAT I'M A HUMAN BEING CAPABLE OF HURTING PEOPLE, THAT THAT'S ENDEMIC IN WHAT IT IS TO BE A HUMAN BEING...IF YOU'RE A HUMAN BEING, YOU'RE GOING TO HURT PEOPLE, YOU CAN'T STOP THAT. And this voice was speaking, 'I LOVE YOU, I MADE YOU, I FORGIVE YOU, I CREATED YOU, I'M CREATOR YOU ARE CREATURE, AND I LOVE YOU.'
@@Pecos1 Jesus was talking about the physical place of Gehenna , just outside Jerusalem.
The most famous verse in the Bible is one of the many verses that support belief in conditional immortality (annihilationism):
ESV John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."
God so loved you that he gave his only begotten son for some reason even though he could've just changed the rules and let you into heaven without torturing his son.
@@sanjeevgig8918 a thrice holy God cannot “change the rules” as it would violate his character & nature. He is infinitely holy & perfect and we have all sinned against him. Just as a murderer justly deserves a life sentence (actually they deserve the death penalty) so a finite human deserves punishment for a far greater crime - sinning against the creator. And yet, because God is love; he sent his son - fully God & fully man - to live the sinless life we cannot live & take the punishment we deserve. Instead of giving us what we deserve he himself took it all.
It’s a beautiful thing but the world hates it. It’s foolishness to those who are perishing. Repent & believe my friend. There isn’t much time left.
@@sarahd5341 Jesus/Yahweh commanded babies be drowned in the flood, the Amalekites babies be killed, the Canaanite babies be killed, the Midianites boy babies be killed, the Egyptian firstborn babies be killed and the babies in Sodom and Gomorrah be killed. But, he is love now ?? When did he change ?? But, you said he can't change the rules ??
Exactly. Eternal life is for the saved alone.
@@sanjeevgig8918 You’re leaving sin out of the equation. The human nature is fallen and wicked from conception.
The Lord’s speaking about the man who died, was being tormented in the flames and was begging for Abraham to send someone with at least a drop of water on their finger to cool his torment didn’t/doesn’t sound like a metaphor or allegory to me. It sounds/reads very specific and pointed. I find it hard to believe the Lord would do something akin to word games, leaving it up to those listening to figure it out that he was only trying to get across an idea of how bad it would be. That doesn’t line up with the Lord’s directness and clear speaking, parables aside; and, I don’t find any scriptural evidence his speaking about the man dying and being tormented in the flames was another parable.
I don’t agree with Lee’s statement that there couldn’t be flames and darkness because flames would light up the darkness. That seems presumptuous. We obviously don't know the exact reality of hell, but there's no basis to presume the flames of torment there would line up with our limited perceptions of how certain flames act within our material reality in this life.
I do agree that, literal flames or not, the primary torment, the worse of the reality of hell, will be the full, sudden and never-ending awareness of being eternally ( think about that term - a trillion, trillion, trillion eons will pass… and it will be as if it has just begun … ) cut off from God; the One who loved enough to give His own life to prevent anyone from consigning themselves to an endless eternity cut off from Him and His great love.
Could it be that some levels of hell as he talked about are darkness and others are fire?
Just remember that there are demons able to whisper things to people.
When I was 5 years old I spent a horrible night with the most excruciating earache that would only stop when my mother prayed the Lord's prayer, but the moment she stopped the pain returned and I would start screaming - Pray mommy, pray! -
The next day, early in the morning, we went to our relatives place, their young daughter was possessed and they asked my mom (who was a "medium") to go help.
I still remember stepping into the room and seeing the girl kneeling on the bed and laughing as she looked at me and mocked - Pray mommy, pray! - and laughed and laughed.
We hadn't told anyone about the night, no one but me and my mom knew about it.
There's a lot of "evidence" of this kind out there.
Wow! What country did this happen in?
your mother was involved as well..a source with mixed roots... Break those chains!
Loved this. Thank you xx
Profound and encouraging
We need to tread with caution, with those who claim to die and meet Christ, nothing in scripture collaborates this. I do believe we can be out of our body , however being in the presence of God and then return, not so much.
just a thought on what hell is comprised of & Lee's comments on the use of metaphorical language to describe. I believe the Bible is talking about a literal fiery place of eternal doom. Eg. in Rev where devil is cast into lake of fire & brimstone. Jesus taught more about hell than anyone else in the Bible and he gave perhaps the most vivid illustration of what it is in the parable of the rich man & Lazarus, where the rich man was so tormented by the fire that he asked for water to cool his tongue. Finally, the word for hell in the Bible is Gehenna, which is the valley of hinnom in Jerusalem, speaking of a fiery place. All of these points towards a fiery place.
Maybe Alisa would care to comment on this
So an old friend of mine was a Dungeons and Dragons DM back in the day. One thing she would do to screw with groups was give them a well-worn man's left shoe in their loot, just to see how long they would hold onto it. The near death experience where the woman saw that exact item on the roof had me rolling at our inside joke. I guess God is in on it, too.
God has a sense of humor.
We don’t want a watered down gospel! We want Christ fully! I love Alisa and her boldness in Jesus Christ!
Bryan Melvin in his book A Land Unknown, said God could blast sinners into non existence but that would not be a living way. He gave us each the gift of life and does not take it back but sets before us life and death and said choose life but if you choose death he will let you. If someone goes to hell and immediately cries out to Jesus he can and does sometimes bring them back for a chance to change and choose God. Even repentance is a gift. You mentioned Howard Storm. And Bryan Melvin was an atheist when he died but God gave him a chance to come back and change his mind.
I’m wondering how the imagery of hell is metaphorical? Among the many references to hell, the bible clearly describes satan being thrown into the lake of fire. Not only that, who said that hell is limited to the physics of the natural world? If it’s a spiritual place and God can manifest anything, couldn’t there be darkness and fire at once? It also says that the fire will not be quenched and the worm will not die. I don’t see how we can designate concepts about hell as metaphor but those about heaven as realities to look forward to…can you clarify?
Beautiful!! 😍
Alisa Childers... I believe in Jesus Christ and desperately trying to turn away from sin. I just have a knee jerk reaction to the Bible and the Christian Paradigm which scares me and tells me I'm not one of the elect. I'm attempting to start a fast so as to dedicate myself to prayer and study asking that you pray for me.
I have definitely suffered demonic attachment and can't believe how when I was released I went back to my sinful life. I do have a lot of strong feelings that are rooted in shame guilt regret. I'm 65 years old don't know how much time I have left. I fear I don't have it in me to be a man of God and this terrifies me.
Don’t be afraid. Trust the Lord. He is good and just. He knows what you are going through and the battle within your heart.
Give it to Him and follow Him as best you can. Repent for sins that will inevitably challenge you along the way and strive to always be more like the Lord. Don’t panic.
Have you accepted Him as your Lord and savior believing in Him and His payment for our sins on the cross? Do you believe when He said “it is finished” that the payment for our sin really was finished and done? Do you believe He died in body but has ascended to the Father?
If yes, then you will be with Him in paradise after you close your eyes for the last time here on this earth.
As long as you are alive on this earth m, there is time to accept the Lord. If you have, just continue to follow Him and trust that He has made a way for us.
I have also prayed for you and provided scripture for you to look at concerning salvation to strengthen your faith and trust in the Lord.
God bless you brother.
✝️❤️🙏
“So they asked him, “What sign then will you give that we may see it and believe you? What will you do? Our ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written: ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’” Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread from heaven, but it is my Father who gives you the true bread from heaven. For the bread of God is the bread that comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.” “Sir,” they said, “always give us this bread.” Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. *All those the Father gives me will come to me*, and *whoever comes to me I will never drive away*. For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but *to do the will of him who sent me*. And *this is the will of him who sent me*, that *I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.*””
John 6:30-40 NIV
“But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin. If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and *purify us from all unrighteousness.*”
1 John 1:7-9 NIV
“No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.”
Romans 8:37-39 NIV
“I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people- for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time.”
1 Timothy 2:1-6 NIV
“The Jews who were there gathered around him, saying, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly.” Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.””
John 10:24-30 NIV
““If you love me, keep my commands. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever- *the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him*. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.”
John 14:15-17 NIV
“Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will- to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace that he lavished on us. With all wisdom and understanding, he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, to be put into effect when the times reach their fulfillment-to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth under Christ. In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, in order that we, who were the first to put our hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession-to the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:3-14 NIV
“Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God. You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life because of righteousness. And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you. Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation-but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live. For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, “Abba, Father.” The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. Now if we are children, then we are heirs-heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.”
“In that day this song will be sung in the land of Judah: We have a strong city; God makes salvation its walls and ramparts. Open the gates that the righteous nation may enter, the nation that keeps faith. *You will keep in perfect peace those whose minds are steadfast, because they trust in you*. Trust in the Lord forever, for the Lord, the Lord himself, is the Rock eternal.”
Isaiah 26:1-4 NIV
Great discussion! I do not hold to the position of anilationism. I have listened to a number of debates between those on both sides. The big danger I see in believing this it reduces the urgency to give the Gospel to the lost. I say this because if you believe that people will only suffer for a determined time by God based on your behavior. Then after the sentence is finished one ceases to exist. This belief could cause a believer to think because the punishment is over there will be no more torment. I believe this could again reduce the sense of urgency to share the Gospel.
When you love Christ, you are compelled to share the gospel. I believe in annihilation and it has not deterred me at all. In fact, it has spurred me on to share the gospel. Because it is such good news on God’s loving character.
Denying the existence of Hell is the oldest lie in the book. Gen 3:4 “You won’t die!” the serpent replied to the woman.
Which hell? Gahenna, Hades, Tartarus?
"Anyone’s name not found written in the book of life will be thrown into the lake of fire" (Revelation 20:15). I know this is not what we want to hear but this is written in the Bible: are we absolutely sure it is a symbol? It could be - but it seems that 'fire' is mentioned in the majority of passages which speak of punishment and hell.
If it is a symbol, we may contemplate these sobering words from RC Sproul “the symbol is always exceeded in intensity by the reality it represents … the lake of fire imagery is just the worst thing that Jesus could use to describe it … the people in hell may be praying that they could have the pleasure of resting in a lack of fire” “Hell is so bad that we would not believe in it even for a moment except that Jesus taught so clearly about it”.
I guess one just has to ask these questions: Why would Jesus preach on hell more than heaven? Why would He repeatedly warn people so strongly if it were not conscious punishment? Why did Jesus come if God has no wrath? What did He save us from?
Hell is eternal. Matthew 25:46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” (The same word in the original language is used for eternal).
Ruth...do yourself a favor and buy the book - the fire that consumes by Willaim Edward Fudge - you will learn that hell fire is a fire that annihilates the wicked for God is love...forever in the bible has many meanings according to context...for example, in Ex. 21:6 it says the slave shall serve his master forever but forever here only means his lifetime....in Jonah 1.17 it says he was in the belly of the whale 3 days but 2:6 says it was forever...so, the consequences of hell fire are eternal and not the fire...for the wages of sin is death and not life in a pit of flames Romans 6. 23.....unquenchable fire means the fire will not be put out until the object in the fire is consumed and burned up, see Jer.17: 27 and Mt. 3:12....it says the gates of Jerusalem would burn with unquenchable fire but they are not burning today, same with 3.12, the wicked will burn with unquenchable fire - that is until they are burned up...God is love and love does not torture men, women and children...the SDA church has the best view of scripture
Love that movie. One of my favourites.
I continue to be perplexed by the separation of science and "God". I see science as the toolbox of God. He created all of the elements and knew all of the interactions thereof. If science and "God" are separate, then one or the other are needless. I know that God is the origin of all that is. If we could explain his mechanism, processes or nature of it all, we would be part and parcel of the Godhead. Faith. Blessed are those who having not seen yet believe.
Best analogy of hell….so agree Lee Strobel
The traveling play comments had me rolling. I played the devil in one when I was in Masters Commission, “Heaven’s Gates Hell’s Flames.”
I do wish people would not embrace "near death" experiences. We just don't have any Biblical examples for these to be accepted. Visions maybe, even given by God perhaps but we just don't have any scriptures to back these up or support the idea that a soul "floats around" rather than going directly to their ultimate destination.
May I ask what you’re using for your podcast? I love the format of everything
I wonder if Lee Strobel will include these Jesus NDE stories in his book:
Read and notice at the end that he had a changed life too: IANDS - "I was hit by a car while riding my motorcycle. I died on the operating table. I went through the dark into the light - a soft bluish light. An entity (Jesus to me) was of the light, and the light was a doorway. I was not in this body, but I was as normal as my body here. We spoke without speaking. Joy was all over me. I was relieved to know it is real! Jesus said, "I know it hurts and I know it is bad. You have not done what you said you would do and must go back." I refused. Jesus said, "You will come here, just not now…not yet. I am sorry." Then I was on the operating table and heard someone say, "We got him” and then "Oh my God he is awake.” I AM NOW AN ORDAINED MINISTER AND I PREACH. I WAS SHOWN THERE IS NO HELL. We all go home."
I'll give you another Jesus story...NDERF - Karen: "She took me and placed me in a crystal-like bed and told me to rest because there were beings who wanted to honor and welcome me. I saw beings cued up to greet me. I spied Jesus among them and immediately felt as though something was wrong. I asked the being who brought me, how it was that Jesus wants to honor me. I told her that I was afraid that putting myself at the same level as Jesus would damn me to hell. SHE LAUGHED AND TOLD ME THERE IS NO HELL. We are all equal in spirit form."
Should I keep going? Here's another one for you....Anita Moorjani: "IS THERE A HELL? This is a question I get asked over and over...and THE ANSWER IS HELL NO! I often marvel at how inventive we humans are and at all the stories we’ve created over the millennia to explain what happens to us after death. I was extremely fearful of death before my NDE. I was afraid of karma, and in fact, I believed that my cancer was caused by karma. When I was on the other side, I expected to get punished for all the things I did wrong. I thought there was judgement for all the things we had done wrong. BUT INSTEAD THERE WAS COMPASSION AND UNDERSTANDING FOR WHY I DID WHAT I DID. The souls that cross over take with them their education from their time on earth, as experiences are not judged any more than people are. I understood clearly that there is no judgement on the other side, THERE IS NO MORAL HAMMER THAT IS DROPPED; I saw clearly that this is a human device used by other humans to make us fall in line with the moral majority. Since there is no judgement on the other side, there is no punishment. We gain an understanding of the effects we had on everyone else, but before we are pulled into the human drama of regret or guilt, we are uplifted to understand that we are not judged. We are left with a complete understanding from the other side that there is nothing but love for our souls, and our lives as they were. There is a great section in my book where I address this topic. The section is called "Judgement Day Cometh Not". I WOULD NEVER USE THE PHRASE 'BAD KARMA', AS I DON'T BELIEVE THERE IS SUCH A THING. I simply believe all aspects of life are needed to create the whole. Neither do I believe anymore that we live out all our lives sequentially in linear time, which is the framework that many people have for their ideas about karma. In the NDE state, however, I realized that every moment in all our lives-past, present, future - unknown, unknown, and unknowable-exist simultaneously, as though outside of what we know as time."
What about this story, from a lady who was trafficked starting at 2 years old, and had a drowning NDE...Anne Murphy: "All there was, was the most unconditional love, compassion, pure and total acceptance with no judgement at all. I WAS SHOWN THAT THERE IS NO JUDGEMENT AND NO HELL, NO OPINIONS, NO PUNISHMENT, not like what we are taught here, about a judgemental God and being sent to hell if you're bad, that was not the case. There was no judgement at all from the beings with me or from within myself. It was total compassion, and then remembering I chose my earthly experience. It was just an experience. Love is what we all are. THERE WAS NO SEPARATE GOD KEEPING SCORE AND DOLING OUT JUDGEMENTS AND PUNISHMENTS. THERE WAS NOTHING TO FORGIVE IN THAT STATE OF BEING. There was nothing negative, no shame, guilt, or sense of not being worthy. And I saw that for everybody. THERE WAS NO COMPARISON IN THAT STATE, SO EVERYTHING IS ACCEPTED COMPLETELY. THERE'S NO GREATER THAN, LESS THAN, OR SCORE KEEPING. I saw in my NDE that whether people loved or hated something about me in this human experience, was exactly the same. It was completely neutral. And they showed me what can happen to some people...some people can have a "hellish"" kind of experience...what I saw is that that is when people are still kind of stuck between the human and the...like they haven't fully let go of all the human stuff. Which was self imposed, they believe they need to be judged or they think that's the truth, so that happens. Because we're required to drop it all. It all goes when we return to our true being, our true essence, our true home. Earth is all about contrast. Who we really are is unconditional love. My very abusive adoptive father died on the 28 of June this year and I helped him. He was terrified he was going to "the other place", but in the weeks before, we had many discussions where I reminded him of his true self, what was waiting for him when he "goes home", and that it was not necessary for him to judge himself and become stuck in some "hell" like state, and he didn't. Right at the moment he passed, his true essence was with me, no longer the human and it was pure unconditional love and it went through me and I knew his true being. It was incredible. I shared his death experience with him. He had everyone waiting for him, but I couldn't go in. There's always a barrier. Only those moving fully into "death" pass that barrier."
Have another one....A. Johnson: "I can tell you one thing for sure, THERE WAS NO JUDGEMENT. THERE WAS NOTHING I HAD EVER DONE THAT WASN'T COMPLETELY FORGIVEN, AND 'FORGIVEN' IN THAT CONTEXT MEANT IT WAS GONE. It did not exist. GOD WASN'T HOLDING ME ACCOUNTABLE FOR THAT, God was loving me right through it, and IT WAS TOTAL AND COMPLETE FORGIVENESS. We dont have to prove ourselves to be loved by God. What I learned on the other side is that THERE'S NO JUDGEMENT ON US, NONE, ZIP, NADA. IN THE OTHER REALM THERE'S NO JUDGEMENT BECAUSE THERE'S NOTHING TO JUDGE. We're all pure unconditional love. THERE'S NO HELL, THERE'S NO PUNISHMENT. When you realize there's nothing to forgive, then there's nothing to punish either."
Must I continue on further?...J. Olson: "There was this divine presence coming up behind me. This wise cosmic presence. I'm thinking 'oh my goodness, that's God coming.' And then the guilt began to bubble up again. I had the thought 'I hope I can be forgiven.' I was fearful, very fearful. That's when the download came...truth and wisdom and light and love. The first thing that was communicated was THERE'S NOTHING TO FORGIVE. Everything's in perfect divine order. And I thought 'how can that be?' My life was presented before my eyes. There were these things that I was saying 'no no that was a mistake'. I WAS TOLD THERE ARE NO MISTAKES, YOUR LIFE IS PERFECT. I would say 'that was wrong, I knew it was wrong and I did it anyway.' THIS BEAUTIFUL BEING COMMUNICATED, THOSE ARE YOUR JUDGEMENTS OF IT, NOT OURS, WE LOVE YOU. It was this unconditional outpouring of love. BUT I KNEW IF THAT WAS TRUE OF ME, IT WAS TRUE OF EVERY ONE OF US. I WAS BEING SHOWN THAT IT WASN'T MY FAULT THAT I'M A HUMAN BEING CAPABLE OF HURTING PEOPLE, THAT THAT'S ENDEMIC IN WHAT IT IS TO BE A HUMAN BEING...IF YOU'RE A HUMAN BEING, YOU'RE GOING TO HURT PEOPLE, YOU CAN'T STOP THAT. And this voice was speaking, 'I LOVE YOU, I MADE YOU, I FORGIVE YOU, I CREATED YOU, I'M CREATOR YOU ARE CREATURE, AND I LOVE YOU.'
My Mom and dad were married for 65 years my Dad came back right the next morning after death just told Mom he was fine and would see her in a while and nothing was wrong with her health and passed away 9 months after my Dad
For organized religion such as Christianity the appeal to become religious is about avoiding hell and perdition rather than about living a fully joyful life in God.
reminds me of Psalms 90 :3 thou turnest man to destruction; and sayst ,Return, ye children of men.
Thank you 🤗 for the information, 4 me The Bible can be taken literally. Just as there are 3 Heavens, there are 3 Hells, Gahanna, ( you can go there any time you want to ) Tartarus, & Sheol, sometimes translated Hades.
good Point.
I love your ministry and was glad to hear your discussion on this topic. I also struggle with the doctrine of hell, but do believe the Bible speaks of an eternal conscious torment and not annihilationism. I had some confusion during the last part of this conversation when speaking of people who haven’t heard of the gospel, possibly being saved after death. My concern is if we believe people can be saved after death, why would we bother with evangelizing? Also, if people are in hell, wouldn’t their hatred (gnawing and nashing of teeth) towards God, keep them from wanting to go to heaven? I also believe that NDE’s are absolutely real, and some do point to Christ, but I’ve also heard and read of people who’ve had them and to them it confirms their prior false belief system or leads them to another false belief system such as Hinduism, Islam, and the vast majority I’ve heard of is Universalism/new age beliefs. So, although I agree that they’re real, I’m concerned that a focus on them can really cause people and new believers to be deceived. I believe in that state of consciousness the enemy can absolutely appear as an angel of light to cause major deception.
I think you should struggle with the concept of hell, it’s a terrible concept and one that doesn’t really help/serve anybody in a constructive manner, nor makes any sense even from what Christianity seems to want. Sure fear is a strong motivator, but I don’t think it’s wholistic way to get people to live with virtue. Seems more like a knee jerk response; like humanity acting like a adolescent when coming up with a story around how to get people to fall in line.
The Bible says it’s the love of God that leads us to repentance. We should never use hell as a scare tactic to lead people to salvation. Also,in true relationship with Jesus, fear should never be a motivator. The Bible says there is no fear in love because perfect love casts out all fear because fear has to do with torment. 1John 5:18. Christianity isn’t behavioral modification, it’s an inward change powered by the Holy Spirit, it’s not about rules because the Holy Spirit is guiding us into sanctification. I understand why you think hell is a terrible concept, like I said I also struggle with it, but I also know that God is absolutely perfect in his judgment and his ways are way beyond my understanding. On this earth we are in a spiritual battle and we have to decide who we will serve. I’m not sure what your faith is, but I pray you will come to know the deep love our Heavenly Father has for you! God Bless ❤️
@@lindsaygraham9115 - I hear your heart in this and I really understand what your saying, but I’d push back on a lot of what you’ve responded with, I guess to charitably put it, as a way to show a different perspective. You seem like a genuinely caring and thoughtful person, so I don’t intend just to badger you. That being said, take my comments as just you being the outlet of my own processing through my journey out of faith. I’m gathering I won’t convince you much by any of my points. In my judgment, I really think religious biases are some of the hardest ones to challenge, especially if one is deeply entrenched in either a really amazing community or a toxic one. Not making any claims of your specific situation though.
First, you stated “it’s the love of God is what leads to repentance”. If you mean by repentance in a theological sense, then fine, the Bible solves a theological problem with a theological solution. But if you mean by what method do we turn from wrong doings and make amends, I don’t think love (especially transferred from someone else [god]) at best, fully explains how this works. Think about a time you’ve done wrong to someone; sure maybe it’s a loving relationship that is broken, but fear, sadness and regret adds also to why one turns around and chooses to right that relationship. To say that god is what leads us to repentance, is to in turn, kinda say that he enjoys leading people to feeling all those negative feelings and this is how he loves. I get tough love, but I don’t think the way this plays out for a lot of situations actually turns out well and many a people end up being forever riddled with guilt and shame. I’ll touch on how “being healed out of this” with the Holy Spirit doesn’t quite work either.
Ok, that was just one sentence, hope you can hang with me here…
I would certainly agree that using hell, especially when defined as “eternal conscious torment“ is a terrible way to tell people about Jesus. But it is part of the conversation/conversion unfortunately. Both Alisa and Lee spoke to this in the video; you can’t skirt around the topic of hell. It’s part of the worldview and however one explains it, hell needs to be in there. It’s an extremely frightful idea which would really beg the question of why the heck would we need such a thing? Given limitless options of setting up a universe. I could think of much better options, but again, this touches on a point I hopefully will get to later.
And I get the verse that says perfect love casts out all fear, but unfortunately I think most people do not experience this. I think you could easily demonstrate the a lot of Christians struggle, fear, suppress discomfort of either thinking about hell in regards to people outside of the faith or, if they’re really “in” and instead, are they headed to hell because of some unforgivable sin? A perfect loving god, through this Holy Spirit should, it seems, to be able do a much better job of loving people through this. As a side note - this is really my really big glaring issue with Christianity these days (it’s different aspects in other seasons). How can we appeal to the Holy Spirit as the main guiding force for the believer given:
It seems to tell people wrong things
It tells people contradictory things
It doesn’t provide a specific method of discernment / cannot be sure if it’s the HS or just your own thoughts.
Well-meaning, “spirit filled”, well studied communities of faith all come to vastly different conclusions on who god is, how he works and what he “requires” of us. They can’t all be right, yet they all have access to a being described as being capable and more than willing to set the record straight. And yet it’s either silence, indifference or capriciousness that spirit is allowing Christianity to only further be fractured.
Ok this is getting long, I’ll end with this last point regarding “God’s perfect judgment”. To say that, you concede your own understanding and to give god the ability to define judgement, is to then forfeit and ability to know good or bad. You could spend decades thinking you were honestly serving Jesus; experiencing and doing good only to find that you never were a Christian and all those deeds led to nothing, no fruit, and end up in whatever version of hell that awaits. This seems to be my case (though I’m fairly comfortable saying that no afterlife is probably awaiting me). If you say god understands more, than any situation could be just his way of doing what he wants to do and that must be good. You’re forced to make everything fine and just a “sanctification” lesson. That’s certainly one way to see the world, I’m just not convinced it’s the way we actually operate or most helpful to accept reality.
I knew the deep love of the father, I get it, I lived it. But when I really pulled back the curtain, I found the “person” there was my community, my thoughts and meditations, my upbringing and biases. Once I allowed to push into doubt rather than assuage it with some Bible verse or pastor/friend giving me counsel or reading yet another book, I found peace and rest in realizing my faith no longer needed to be held.
Hope you can receive this with understanding and wonder.
“If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not have sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin” John 15:22
Jesus presents a very important principle here: a person is not responsible for what they could not have known. The implication is that it is possible to have a salvific link with Christ without knowing him formally.
Religions that have as tenants of their respective faiths the rejection of Jesus and his Church have no power to save anyone. It is “the truth that makes us free”, not falsehood.
Anyone who is ever saved is not saved by his or her false religious beliefs (i.e. Judaism that rejects Christ, Islam that denies Jesus is the Son of God, etc.); rather, they can be saved in spite of them.
“Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation”
Invincible ignorance, however, is not the only condition for salvation.
Such individuals must “seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience”
The bottom line is: the straight and narrow road that leads to heaven is not an easy road to begin with, even for those gifted with the fullness of truth.
We must remember that we are not the judges of salvation. God is the sole and final judge. We do not know who is truly “invincibly ignorant” and who is not.
@@jotunman627 - I understand where you are coming from for the most part, but now as a former professing Christian, it's honestly surprisingly odd how much things I used to hold no longer make sense, such as this way of craftfully setting up either a win-win or lose lose situation. Maybe I'll just ask this:
If you were to "share the gospel" with someone, have you put them in the situation where they are now responsible for that information or is not "knowledge" a bit more involved? For me, you can tell me all about god, I can read the Bible about god, and read books about god, but unless I have a method to actually interact with god, I'm not sure it's my ignorance, its a failure of communication, one that should not seem to be hindered by a maximally powerful and loving deity. So one is left to make it all my fault, even with pleads, tears, open hands, prayers (mine & others interceding). Sure you can say, stay the course. It's easy to utter when belief is already there. I've just grown tired of a one sided relationship. Every single other relationship I have has at its stupidly basic level, a definable and demonstrable existence to it.
This has swayed a bit off topic, but honestly I wasn't sure you were addressing me in your comment anyway.
I encourage people here to do what Lee and Alisa both said they did: look at the biblical evidence for conditional immorality (aka annihilationism). If you want help, let me know!
Very helpful,thanks
Immortality
"Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die." Ezekiel 18:4
Teachers, huh?
"Many pastors have destroyed my vineyard, they have trodden my portion under foot, they have made my pleasant portion a desolate wilderness." Jeremiah 12:10
"My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children." Hosea 4:6
Revelation 19:20 & 21
Revelation 20:1 - 15 (especially those words indicating second death and death and hell being cast into the lake of fire.)
How great is the power of the adversary to deceive?? The whole world except for the elect may wind up being deceived.
eternal life is a reward if the righteous. if someone is conscious for eternity and torment then eternal life is also a reward for the wicked.
My only concern about near death experiences are there are times when people come back and then no longer believe in Christ. 🤔 Can the enemy trick someone during their near death experience to doubt the christian faith?
yes he's a angel of light
Alisa thank you so much for making the point that God is fair and just! And to be content to know that He will act in that way…..if I don’t think this way I can go down a really dark rabbit hole of WHY????
God is merciful he give a second chance to repent in Purgatory.
@@chardo24 Where is Purgatory in the Bible?
@@deanna8217 Roman Catholic Christians who believe in purgatory interpret passages such as 2 Maccabees 12:41-46, 2 Timothy 1:18, Matthew 12:32, Luke 16:19-16:26, Luke 23:43, 1 Corinthians 3:11-3:15 and Hebrews 12:29 as support for prayer for purgatorial souls who are believed to be within an active interim state for the dead ...
@@chardo24 Thanks for the verses. I looked up 3 and I don't see the context you are referring to here, but I will have to go in and read the full chapters surrounding them later when I have time.
@1woksape C.S Lewis has been dead for years.
Alisa, with all due respect, conditional immortality does not disagree with the duration of hell but as you stated does bring clarity to the nature of hell. Hell, final punishment, or Gehenna is the term for the privation of life through the means of destruction. Having your body and soul destroyed and slain (the second death) is an eternal punishment.
Then all created was at one time gone to hell, that is non-existence. Difference is annihilationism, at least some camp believe in a short duration of punishment, sort like few lashes then knock them out cold
@@jivenji17 The Bible does not say that hell is non-existence. When the Bible and Jesus talk of hell (final punishment) the word Gehenna is used--where the Jewish person pictured fire and maggots consuming dead bodies. Jesus further emphasized that when He stated to "fear the one who can destroy your body AND soul in Gehenna. (Matthew 10:28)" When the lost are bodily raised to life again and then stand in judgement they will be capitally punished--where their body and soul will be destroyed. Non-existence is not the punishment nor is non-existence the same as hell. The wages of sin is death--not eternal conscious torment. To somehow equate our non-existence before our birth as the same as standing before a holy God and being capitally punished, is a gross misrepresentation of Conditional Immortality.
Amen!!! Great!
There seem to be two things going on. The floating up part where people see things in the hospital room. And then the hellish and heavenly experiences. The floating stories seem to have a much firmer case for being real rather than the heavenly and hellish experiences where to see them as real and concrete is more of a step of faith. Near death experiences come in all sorts of varieties. One person in their near death experience starred in their own star wars film.