1. A lot of arguing without resolution...A relationship without forgiveness 2. The toxic person wishes you were dead or gone...Sex lacks emotional component... 3. Unfounded accusations 4. Unhelpful personality and resentful treatment 5. Unhelpful communication style...badgering or aggressive behavior...refusal to recognize process or principles...nobody apologizes except you the victim 6. Excessive fantasy....what would it be like if I escaped or got another partner? 7. Manipulation...spending money to hurt partner...silent treatment... isolating behavior esp. where counseling is concerned... Thank you Dr G
Jeanette York ive been in unhealthy relationships with men my entire adult life. beginning with my first marriage at age 18which lasted 17yrs. he was an abusive alcoholic. i managed to finally get enough courage to get me and my 2young children away from the crazy fool. im 58yrs old and ive only had 1 relationship(my late husband)that wasnt toxic/abusive. i stopped dating 4yrs ago because of being hurt so many times. i dont evn trust my own judgement anymore because im drawn to those type men for some unhealthy reason. all of the points you made i can personally relate to. its a sad and scary life.
Yea this is my relationship right now she says i make her jealous.. I don't think its that. I beleive since her father died she has some psychological deffect from that and her upbringing.. Im hoping it will get better. I have to be patient.
I have been married to a wonderful man for sixteen years. I’ve been in toxic relationships. Being older and somewhat wiser I would rather live alone than be with someone who is toxic
i'm only 31 but i've been in enough serious, multiple-year relationships that turned toxic to completely agree at this point. bad experiences do make you wiser...as long as you get to live to be old enough to learn from it.
I struggled to get out of a toxic marriage (I identified with about 90% of this video). Because I finally did get out, I am now dealing with the aftermath of divorce: financial, emotional, and logistical devastation. Do I regret it? Not even for a moment. I am alone now, but I have peace, and I have taken the situation as an opportunity to heal, learn, and change... hell, I even have a lot of hope for a happy future! What is the value of that? Thank you for this video Dr. Grande.
I would love a video on how the perpetrator makes the victim look crazy or like the bad guy. How they bait and bait and bait, and when you finally stand up for yourself, they immediately try to take on the role of the victim.
I would add another sign of a toxic relationship is when one person is motivated to get into couples counseling, read about healthy relationships, and gain understanding what makes a relationship healthy while the other person is completely passive. Perhaps the passive person isn’t the most psychologically minded and tends to avoid personal insight. It just seems to me like being in a relationship is really about being vulnerable, Open, and mutual caretaking. When one person is avoidance of those important aspects, it certainly seems to create a toxic dynamic.
I wonder if that is considered passive aggressive. Anyway, i had the same problem in my 17 years of marriage. I was always wanting to communicate and get professional help in order to make the relationship better/stronger, but my husband for some reason just kept dragging his feet. I don’t know why some people have trouble opening up or being vulnerable , but i feel it’s necessary in a relationship. But not to even try by getting some counseling just boggles my mind and makes you wonder what they are so afraid of or why they wouldn’t want to try to make things better. Especially when there are children involved. I will never understand that. Ever.
@@joywilliams4014 because being vulnerable is not what a narcissist voluntarily does. If a narcissist goes to therapy they risk being called out; a professional might see through a lot of their manipulation if they debate too much. So they either lie and manipulate the therapist (and therefore achieve nothing of benefit from the session) or they go into a mostly passive role to try seem meek and vulnerable (in their mind) but without actually acknowledging their faults
With my last relationship, I was "hoodwinked" and realized I was trapped in a relationship with a narcissist with ASPD tendencies. I am now free from him crazy sadistic ass for over a year now. This has made me self reflect on WHY I KEEP GETTING INVOLVED WITH TOXIC PEOPLE. I had to rid of him and even family, and I do NOT feel guilty about this one iota. Its a shame I had to learn what self-love means at almost 46 years old. 😢 Thanks Doc! Another great video.
I'm right there in that club with you. I don't seem to attract anyone except toxic people. I'll end up a hermit, and that's okay with me, as long as I have my pets.
You keep getting involved with them because there are just too many of them to avoid. I suppose we will never be able to avoid them until someone creates a mind-reading maching. Don't blame yourself.
I can't even get out bed half the time. I know it's snarky comments and fighting. I've tried shutting up, fighting back, being logical and calm, avoiding all together. The fact is they will seek you out
@@thebeasters yeah, I can identify two people in my life that create toxic dynamics like these, they bring the toxic smog with them. I can always predict when things are about to go sour and I walk off immediately, and most of the time they chase after me to scream at me when I make my way to a safe space. I can't even run from it lmao, they scream so loud.
SIlent treatment seems to be confused a lot, telling your partner you need a time out or to think before you talk about something is healthy, purposelly ignoring someone for whatever reason until it infuses some sort of reaction isn't
True.... i kept thinking when i would hear about the silent treatment being a symptom. I don’t talk for a while after an argument but it’s because i have absolutely nothing to say.
@e [insert a big, loving, and understanding hug here] You deserve so much better than that, and as much as it hurts, it is wonderful that you have chosen to focus on yourself (it will feel freeing when the pain fades) and not be subjected to such oblivious abuses, which weaken the heart in more ways than one :(
Dedicating myself to a cause has helped me a lot in discovering myself and healing, as I am helping others heal. I chose to do rescue work, I rehabilitate animals (usually only one or two at a time, as I can), most of whom are rescued from farm abuse. For one and a half months now, I've been rehabilitating two battery hens. Watching them discover freedom, and life's joys, for the first time, and overcoming mental and physical disorders and trauma, and building a trusting relationship with them where once there was only fear, is very emotional and inspiring. I've discovered things about myself I never would have had the chance to otherwise. And it's helped me really discover my worth. Just mine, outside of any romantic relationship. I highly recommend giving it a try.
1st 3:10 Chronic, protracted argumentation without resolution or forgiveness. 2nd 4:39 The victim feels their partner wishes them dead and 5:13 Dread of sex, relief when partner leaves for the day. 3rd 6:08 Unfounded accusations of victim ruining toxic person's life, infidelity. 4th 6:31 Unhelpful personality and temperament characteristics. 5th 7:03 Unhelpful communication style, e.g., persistent badgering beyond signs of submission and sorrow. 6th 9:11 Excessive fantasy. Calculating benefits of leaving. 7th 9:54 Manipulation. 0:00 Intro 11:45 Can a toxic relationship be saved? Should it be saved? 13:49 What is and what is not successful. 14:15 Outro
PLEASE TRY TO ESCAPE ASAP. I have been in lots of toxic relationships too. Thankfully survived them all. If you can't escape, please BE CAREFUL, AND TAKE CARE.
Yes, this is one of most painful topics- not even take little effort to say sorry or thank you! It seems so childish to pay attention to apologies and absolutely not even take it seriously. This ignorance to acknowledge your human pain and tears!
The ability to say *no* and still *be well* might be the core measure of Toxic Relationships. I'm just awakening to how much I have not been caring for myself. Realizing the most basic standards of my inherent value, and how I will allow others to treat me, brings to the forefront the *imperative* of *volluntary relationships* - in all public & private interactions.
Wow! Ty Dr Grande. I’ve been divorced for 20 years and listening to this video, articulated my marriage relationship. I had an ulcer in the end. When my mother died-I was 25 years old, my husband yelled at me when I came to tell him her diagnoses, “Don’t you know everyone’s going to die”? No empathy. He used to say, the best defense in an argument is a good offense. We were married 22 years. I didn’t believe I could survive if I left. But I did. I confess, I’m scared to get into another toxic relationship. I
I had decided........that's it. Had enough. Didn't even really understand narcissism etc just SICK OF BEING TREATED SO BADLY. Got home from a hospital stay and the bastard had died on me. I didn't even have the chance to throw him out!!!! DAMN!!!!!! ALIVE AND DEAD HE SCREWED WITH ME!!!!!! I started learning all this stuff afterwards.
I lived in a toxic marriage for almost 17 years. You have described almost everything I went through with my ex husband during that time. I tried so much to fix things by being patient and seeking counseling but nothing worked. I’ve been divorced and alone for 10 years and I do not date because I am so scared of going through the same again.
I was married 17 years to a borderline type narcissist, been divorced 15 years! This video describes so much. If you can afford to do Terri Coles programs, I recommend, if not or and look into Dr Ramani's program, hers is affordable $25 per month. I am happily married to my second husband and it is quiet wonderful to live within a healthy relationship ! Had to learn how to have boundaries for myself and speak up with my desires and needs. Still learning how to be a healthy partner myself.
This was my entire "relationship" for 15 years that I could not get out of... He is still not out of my life, yet, although we stopped living together 2 years ago. He still contributes financially - pretty much controls that aspect. Actually hearing all of these points in a row has made me realize that now, at 39 years old, I don't think I want another romantic relationship, ever. I spent that long in a situation like that and had no idea it was toxic? I have c-ptsd, pretty isolated, and was raised in a family of abusive, criminal narcissists. At least I can start to protect myself, and others (since I think I must be pretty toxic)... while attending the therapy I plan to get as soon as possible.
Probably a good idea, while you heal and process what you’ve been through. After I did that, my philosophy was, “I’m not going to let my ex steal one more day of love from me.” Remarried for a year now, to a loving and supportive man.
Glad that you stopped living together, but financial control still gives him a lot of power. It’s been two years since your comment. I hope you’re doing better. The more independent you can be from him and the family you mentioned, the more you’ll be able to protect yourself and control your own destiny.
As far as someone seeking counseling, or not wanting to, there are PLENTY of EXTREMYLY CRAPPY counselors out there. That would be a reason I would tend not to run to them. I have seen and experienced very manipulative situations as far as seeking help from supposed "professionals." Just because someone would rather not partake of that aspect of society running to someone else to figure out their problems, does not mean it is fear. My sister has gone to counsellors and psychiatrists for YEARS and she is one of the most unhappy, unfulfilled people I know. I listen to your videos because you are logical, and neutral. Not many are like you Dr. Grande.
Relationships should never leave you feeling awful *ALL* the time. If a relationship leaves you feeling that way all the time, it's a good sign that either you need to get out of it, OR insist that the other person work with you to fix the problems or you're leaving.
I tried to go to counseling with my husband and it didn't help. After 30 years , today I told him to leave. I am 54 and I am on my own for the first time in my life. It's scary , but I wish I had done this years ago 🥳
@@janycebrown4071 you will never look back. This is the beginning for you. The best thing you could ever do. The only answer. Stay no contact if possible for ever. You are brave 🌟
About two years ago I got out of a very manipulative and emotionally abusive relationship and this video just really hits home. If anyone out there is questioning if they can move past their relationship, you got this!!
With narcissists there is also starting arguments as a diversion or to excuse bad behaviour, like picking a fight so they can leave the house to cheat. If the argument is being used for manipulation I find even if you try to diffuse it by taking their side, they will even start disagreeing with their original stance that you are agreeing with, just to make sure the argument escalates.
This will help so many people. My ex hit all 7 of these signs. He not only refuse to work on it, he doubled down and when from toxic to abuses other than emotional. There was no choice but to leave. I do agree with you that it can be changed IF both parties work on it. I don't understand how leaving being an option and not being the best idea. I'd be interested in clarification on that. Your videos very often give me other insights into things, so I'm more than willing to hear ya out on a lot of controversial statements.
I’m glad you were able to leave. My ex used to tell me that if I left he would and the very least get visitation and that one day he would not bring them back and he would disappear. This was pre internet and he wasn’t close to his family so I knew he would do it. I stayed for 26 years and haven’t been in a relationship since. I still have trouble believing that I’m good enough even though I have 3 grown children and 4 granddaughters that love me unconditionally. Sorry to pour my heart out to you I just was happy for you.
@@TheJhansonfan I'm so happy you are able to have contact with your grown children and grandchildren, I wasn't that lucky my freedom came with a price,he told me on a text he would have my children hateing me before it was over and he did, I'm alone and by myself now,I escaped that horrific mess almost 5 years ago, but haven't spoken too my adult daughter's in over a year and half, my therapist keep telling me they will come around one day,but it maybe to late when they won't be able to see their mother at all, I've greived the loss of my daughter's and grandchildren,I no I'll never seem them ever again.
@@kimkilgore148 Hi! Stay strong! There are a number of support groups on FB for Estranged Parents! As well as helpful books! ' Done with the Crying' by Sheri McGregor..
Me too but hard to find a place with the pandemic. Been in it for 33 years. I was just today thinking about my marriage. About how its so toxic and he drinks to top it off. He's not physically abusive but its bad just the same. Ahhhh im worn out from it all.
Thank you for a brilliantly constructed narrative , deconstructing this tricky subject. When enmeshed in toxic relationships it is hard to pin point what is essentially wrong for the partner who is constantly kept off balance, on the back foot questioning themselves. But I do think the psychological and physiological damage to the person on the receiving end in toxic relationships such as you are so specifically describing cannot be underestimated, it can be irreversible without a lot of support & professional help. Also if the perpetrator is not willing to commit to change & take responsibility, it is undoubtedly better to leave particularly in the case of NPD.
Hi Dream Big...Honestly this stuff should be taught in school. It’s astonishing that sooo many people, (good people), get into these destructive relationships. Man I could’ve really used this information fourth years ago. I have been divorced for 16 years from a 17 years marriage and still haven’t recovered from the emotional devastation. We actually are friends now, but I still harbor a lot of resentment from all the pain and damage it caused for me emotionally. I wish that he would allow for an honest conversation so I can purge all the hurt inside...but that was part of the problem...no quality communication. The sad part is I feel I can never get into another serious relationship until that happens for me. I realize I had self esteem/insecurity issues prior to my marriage, which I had therapy for but never were really resolved, but that relationship crippled me even more. This Dr. seems amazing...but seems to late for me. Idk. I don’t especially like being alone, but relationships seem too risky.
You are absolutely right. The damages that result, especially and specifically when someone was exposed to NPD, are many and substantial damages. And yes, professional help is often needed to address it and to facilitate health and healing. Good comment 👍
I really enjoyed this video, especially the fact that you brought signs that aren’t mentioned that much in other youtube videos like feeling physically sick and poor communication. Great video through and through :0)
Leaving a toxic relationship. At 62 years old I believe that these issues come up with a partner you need to resolve them you need to work them out because you'll bring them up again and again and again in different ways for different partners this is how we heal by being aware of our bad behavior period and working through it with your partner to resolve these childhood issues. The problem I have is so much damage has been done from childhood that it's literally ingrained in my bones. I had a terrible abusive childhood that I barely survived. They even tricked me into a mental place when I was 15 years old and gave me shock treatment I have absolutely no memory of how long I was there and what all happened to me I am devastated from this action they took against me. How do you get out of something like that. Abandonment issues oh yeah big-time
My wife is sitting next to me teasing me in fun about binge watching your channel. The behaviours you describe here are all to familiar to me from my family of origin, not my marriage - we discuss things calmly, deliberately comparing options, looking for unintended consequences and trade-offs, usually with humour, before coming to joint decisions. We look out for one another's best interests; for instance, she encouraged me for about two years to finally buy the car I really want, helping me to overcome the sense of guilt programmed from my childhood at the thought of obtaining something I want. My point is not to counter the content of the video but to emphasise that while toxic relationships certainly exist, they are not inevitable and should not be regarded as normal.
Thank you for hope, I feel like much of that was just sucked out of me over last 8 to 10 years which includes a failed marriage with a narc and a shitty relationship with a covert narc. I would give just about every piece of me I have left for something like that. But all I can do is keep working on me and with any luck some day things will be right comfortable sane and not just blurs of strong emotions that cut onto you over and over once past the attention caring and love stage once the confusion concern sadness and then despair show up it's as hard a thing as I have ever had to face emotionally and it's just completely draining of all the positive feelings leaving you almost as hollow as the emptiness of a narc's soul.
This is very reassuring and comes at just the right time. My partner and I are working our way out of a troubled DSM-loaded relationship with deliberation and a lot of help; but two weeks ago I all but gave up and howled that this is a toxic relationship and there is no hope. One of our counselors disagreed and said try to look at the trajectory and see how far we've come over the years, and watching this video has brought to mind so many sad ways of interacting we don't engage in anymore and states of being I don't experience as a result. I need to give my man some credit for all he's accomplished, I had no idea, but it's true, we have changed. Thanks again Dr. Grande for making this stranger's life explicit to herself.
Really refreshing to hear advice in support of not running away from problems. Truth is that problems have the habit of travelling with us to new destinations, and if not resolved properly, they grow larger.
Watching your video brought me back to my first husband. That toxic relationship lasted a very long two years. So glad I left. There was no fixing that.
Such a great video to help peeps in a bad relationship! Still enjoying my freedom the last 12 years after saying bye bye. Some people do not want to change. Thanks Dr. Grande. ✌🏽
Thank you for this balanced and helpful information - its so hard to see these red flags when we are "in love" with or bonded to a toxic person. Very helpful signs to look out for.
12:10 wise words - I think you suggest that happiness and peace could be better result than the the repaired relationship. As an empath, I had to let go of my high views (demands if you want to call them that) of what a relationship could ever be, and simply go back to every day working on myself, by myself, for myself. This unravelled a lot of harm that was happening regularly and allowed me to start achieving results that were intrinisically beneficial to me - critically important to the rebuild of my self respect. The emotional loss was great, but was very quickly replaced by the joy of little things like money saved, fitness regained, and finanical plans made. All this sure does disarm the perpetuator - when they aren't able to ankle-tap everything... Go get it people, stop waiting, complaining, expecting, and go start doing.
This me! Glad he left me! I'm at a much much better place now. I was sinking when with him and didn't want to admit it because I had this desperate grasp on the relationship - didn't want to be single again. But actually, single life way waaaay more fulfilling for me.
Thank you, Dr. Grande. I appreciate the clarification.... my dad just said that “mental case” is a great catch all for all these groups of disorders. He’s 81. He said my mom was a mental case (borderline with narcissist traits) so now I seek out that to heal my toxic relationship with her. (She’s passed). Thank you so much for this!
If a person has a tendency to physically lash out, walking away during an argument and going somewhere else is a good idea. I often need time to cool down and think in the middle of an argument. I don’t “time out” to punish; I do it to stop things from getting crazier.
this is so true! Thank you for sharing, its nice to get a professional view! I have had ptsd for years bcs of really bad relationships...at least he has been gone for a while now...but i still have ptsd from it ...even years after it ended! It's nice to know im not the only one who has gone through such a nightmare
I'd like to hear more about how the silent treatment is a manipulation and how to deal with that on a constant basis. How you try and try to engage and it makes you feel crazy because the other person makes it seem like they're so wonderful because they're not saying anything but you're "bad" because you want to address the issue. Like if you would just ignore their behaviors and issues in the relationship then everything would be fine. They are very controlling but in a passive way.
I'd like to hear about it too! And how when the other person needs a "break" or "space" instead of communicating or resolving an issue. In my case this person wanted the break to start talking to someone else and date around aka cheat during this "break" while keeping me around.
I was like that too until I finally met my bf a year ago. I didn’t like him at first i even resented him for no reason, I realized my comfort zone was with toxic people and thus I always attracted to them. But I keep pushing myself to see my bf as who he is instead of letting my irrational feelings on the way and he really shows me how secure relationship works. We communicate about everything that we feel, all problems. We use words to describe what we feel instead of acting out our feelings. I’m forever grateful for him and I hope you can break your cycle of toxic partners too. Break the cycle and step out of your comfort zone. Good luck!
Good lord it's like I am in a cycle of every woman I date ends up being a narcissist either overt or covert. I often used to joke by saying if she's crazy then she will fall in love with me almost instantaneously. Now sadly I am not joking about it anymore
I found this video incredibly helpful, informative, and accurate. The only thing I disagree with, is the end part about trying to "save" the toxic relationship. More frequently than not, I've noticed than trying to "save" it is a total waste of time. I think that an individual has a right to happiness and to be with the kind of partner he/she wants and needs, without trying to conform to anything less. And more so, if one is totally willing to give/offer what one wants and expect from our partner. By all means, yes, try to save the relationship if that's possible - especially night there are children involved. But having to "accept" that some of that toxic behavior (or nature, or inclinations) is going to be present, to one degree or another, is not acting out of self-love - we have a right to live the kind of life we want to live. Otherwise, I think this video is a masterpiece!!
I understand every relationship has its ups and downs. Good you do a video about the opposite topic. A video about signs, examples of a healthy + good relationship? Thanks doc 😊
Good idea. My indicators of a healthy relationship are how you feel when you are with the other person, respect and healthy boundaries. Both partners making an effort, mutual effective communication and conflict resolution. Just a few ideas.
pocoeagle2 awesome idea!ive learned to doubt my own choices because of fear that the relationship.will be just a repeat of the last. i was in what i consider a healthy relationship only 1time in my life and got to see just a portion of it because he died from cancer just6wks shy of our 2nd wedding anniversary. i would love to see the flip side of this too. thanks for suggesting it. 😀
You indicate here Dr G that staying is at times unavoidable. If I would’ve stayed longer I would’ve preferred to be dead. These relationships are gut wrenching. Personally, my spirit just can’t handle it. I am finally at peace. I do what I want, when I want, there’s no price tag too high! As always, thank you for your passion and knowledge!!
Thanks for this video, Dr. G. I found this to be really helpful. :) Do you think you might be able to make a video about signs of a healthy relationship? I grew up in a home where my parents had a very bad marriage which ended in divorce, and I've had several abusive or otherwise toxic relationships myself. When entering into new relationships I find myself second-guessing whether things are normal and healthy, because I don't really have a baseline against which to make that determination. It would be really helpful to me if you could address that kind of situation. :)
@@mars9399 I grew up being told , you don’t know anything. Then, I’ve been invalidated so much I don’t trust myself, even when I know I am right. I trust my kids, lol 😆 I ask them as back up confirmation. Thank God for them. Thank God’s Grace and mercy.
This is US!!! You were describing my life. Me the MPD, him the N. It's so difficult to get past my own mind and try to figure out what a "normal " person would think, say or act like at any given moment. It's is so tough being a MPD. I feel like I'm trapped in a box jumping trying to escape and can't jump him enough over the walls or sides. Thank you for all the hard work you put into each of your analysis.
All the relationships I have are toxic to one degree or another. Though of course I contribute to the dynamic with avoidant behavior. Still, I would not leave these relationships, they are all I have. They don't get physically violent, and most of the time I can prevent them from devolving into relentless, sadistic verbal abuse by standing up for myself consistently and being slightly verbally aggressive here and there, regularly. Loved the video, thanks for sharing
Those sound like highly toxic relationships, and I doubt they really are "all you have," or at least all you can have. Convincing the victim that the abuse is normal, and that the victim is alone are both common tactics of abusers. Don't fall into that trap. If you can't talk to a therapist, at least read about patterns of abuse so that you can recognize and avoid them
I hope you will keep searching for kind, safe, people. It is a whole other world, it actively nourishes you. If you can find even ONE warm, honest, forthright friend, it helps you to realize how good closeness with others can be, and it can help you to unlearn all the weird behaviors we adopted with our family in order to survive!
@@a.k.7424 That would be great. Its fine if I dont, but I like that its possible. I think I would have to actively seek this person. Cant see it just happening, specially now with Covid.
One of my options is when I did go to Therapy with my wife she used it to bind me and avoid any questions about her involvement and when I tried to explain my point of view she started to cry and misdirect acting as though I was being the aggressor which in turn escalated the division (frustrating me) this was over 10 years ago before I understood her Tactic, she never got better. Thanks again
I think you're optimistic outlook could really help somebody who might realize they're being toxic and want to change. I believe a lot of times people avoid therapy because they're afraid they're going to hear something they don't like, which might happen but to know that the therapist could be on their side in the sense that they want to help them become a better person and save a relationship that they, even as a toxic person, want;could give them the courage to seek help. I also think it could be helpful for the person who is the victim in a toxic relationship, yet who wants to save the relationship, to know it can be possible but only if both people put the work in. Your approach is both realistic but hopeful.
Thank you for this. Very helpful. The realization that my life is a mess is difficult but gives many areas to improve rather than sit back and fret about it.
The negatives were almost criminally hidden going in. Then I have to ask myself how much I participated in not seeing. No matter the answers, I think I’ve proved to myself that my people picker is broken. I’m nice to me. That will have to be enough, especially with the help of canine buddies and outside friends.
I hear you ! I’m working on forgiving myself for that. I didn’t know there could be such a evil. However , I am determined not to give up on people ! Yet !
@@matilda1505 I love people. I just don’t want to pursue a romantic relationship. I had a lifetime of that eggshell-fear thing and being at peace is just amazing. I have grown kids who had to come home for the lockdown so everyone gets to feel this house in a new way.
My ex wanted a divorce. I suggested marriage counseling because I thought what we had was worth salvaging even though I didn't fully understand what was wrong. He picked out the counselor and we went and saw her individually. I asked if we could have a counseling session together and he said he wasn't comfortable with that. He ended up inviting his immediate family to counseling to work out past issues he apparently had with them. The counselor kept asking me about my mother which I thought was off-topic, or at least a distraction, from our marriage. I ended up having to pay around $800 for his sessions while I got mine free through EAP. We divorced. A few months later he married his coworker. So much deceit and cowardice. Just be honest and admit it was a family counselor, not a marriage counselor, and that seeing other people was preferable to staying together and working things out.
1. Arguments - My ex seemed to start a lot of arguments and would continue the argument for days. I would get to the point where id start crying and beg her to please stop and that I didn't want to fight. I'd tell her I love her and that my goal is never to upset her. She wouldn't stop though and would say I'm making myself the victim and would tell me to shut up when I cried. She'd also bring up the past as if it happened that day and tell me I lack remorse for past mistakes. I could never be forgiven even though I never made the mistake again. I didn't cheat or anything like that. I Just made a stupid choice when we were in a breakup. Or one time when someone had told me they dated her while her and I were together, I believed it and became very hurt. she denied it and made sure to remind me occasionally how I tried to villanize her. I had let it go though and trusted she was telling the truth. 2. Negative Feelings- I consistently felt like my ex would be happier without me around. She criticized so many things I'd do or not do and I started to diminish my presence to stay out of trouble with her. I felt unloved and unwanted. I started to get very depressed. *Dreading Sex- I stopped wanting sex. I just felt so emotionally drained and hurt that the idea of sex was dreadful. * Not feelings safe to share feelings- Anytime I shared a feeling, she'd use it against me or say I was being dramatic. I had some issues with my mom and I would share how I felt about it. I was sad about what was happening but instead of being understanding, she said I was wrong to have my feelings about it (which was sadness that we weren't getting along and that even so, I worried about my mom being alone). Then she said I talk trash about my mom. I never say anything mean about my mom. Also, if she'd be arguing with me, I'd tell her the things she was saying were hurtful. Again, she'd say I'm making myself the victim and that I have no right to complain. *Physically sick- I constantly felt sick around her. Headaches, stomach irritations, body aches. I also felt very exhausted but when she was away, I didn't feel those things for a but. I'd be able to go to the gym and eat more food. 3. Unfounded accusations- She accused me of doing drugs, drinking alcohol, hooking up with co-workers, cheating on her (especially at work). If I wanted to go to my hometown to visit my family which I rarely ever saw. They lived a little over 600 miles away, she'd say "we all know what you do when you go to Texas." My son knows she said that and he said "all you do is lay on our couch and cry." I've never cheated on her nor do I do drugs or drink. She knows that about me. In the past, during some breakups, I did try going on dates to forget her but I didn't like my dates and stopped trying that. 4. Unhelpful personality aspects- I just never felt she cared about anything going on in my life. When my grandma was getting closer to death, she wasn't there for me and said "you work in a hospital, you can handle it." Then ignored me for a month. There were many other times I was going through a time or even when I had covid. She wasn't there for me and even asked me to help her move when she bought a new house. While I was sick with covid. 5. Unhelpful communication style- *I mentioned above that she wouod badger. She would get mad about something then wouldnt stop badgering me about it. She was relentless and even when id beg her to stop or forgive me, she'd get more angry. If I told her she was hurting me or that I felt rejected by her, she'd say I was holding resentments. Nothing I said ever mattered. I've never received a single apology. she lied to me about a whole damn house she owned. I found out because an AC company called looking for her because her AC unit was leaking. So I told them she was at work and they asked me to come see the unit and that's when I found out about this house. I had been in her life about 4 or 5 years at that point and she hid it from me all that time! She didn't even apologize. she just blamed me for why she lied. Same with anytime she was seeing other people but staying in touch with me. When I'd find out about the others, she would blame me and never apologize. One evening I was trying to talk to her about something important that happened in the neighborhood, she wouldn't respond and kept looking at her phone so I stopped talking. Then she said I was playing games with her because I didn't tell her what happened. 6. Excessive Fantasy - planning. I didn't experience this so much. Instead I fantasized that if I became more appealing, she would love me. 7. Life with another partner- I just wanted her. only her. 8. Manipulation- I would save my money in a very disciplined way but she would spend a lot then said I was freeloading off her but I hadn't. she kept a close eye on my bank account and I would give her money monthly to help with the bills. She also got mad at me and said ever since I started seeing a therapist, I got worse and became impulsive. She also got mad at me for reaching out to my family for help and support when she would start fights with me. My friends and family rarely ever called me because they were afraid I'd get in trouble. I basically had no friends. On July 7th 2022, I left her. She blamed me for an email she received from an ex of hers. 7 years prior, yes I did reach out to that ex to find out what was going on between them because I had a feeling they were seeing each other. That was a big mistake and I got involved in a messy situation with her awful ex. So 7 years later when her ex emailed and she blamed me, I became upset because we were way past that. She said she couldn't think of any reason why her ex would reach out to her unless I provoked it. I was understanding but also didn't feel it made sense. she didn't tell me the truth about the email. Her ex was wanting to know how SHE was and if SHE was married and that she hoped to hear from my now ex. I needed some space from the drama so I stepped back for 4 hours to ground myself which resulted in me being called selfish and a lot of other stuff. so I packed my bags and left. It has been extremely difficult and I cry every day but I couldn't live this way anymore.
This video should be spread widely so those who are going through a toxic relationship get the validation they need. I do disagree that leaving is an easy answer to a toxic relationship. Malignant people may claim to want to "work things out," but in reality they only want to continue to do as they please while deceiving and draining the partner. Leaving one of these people is necessary, but it is in no way easy to accomplish.
I would love for you to cover this topic in more depth too, maybe with more signs and how to tell at the beginning of a relationship to see red flags. Also if there may be any potential ways to differentiate between a rough patch and more long lasting problems which run deep. Any ways of telling if the perpetrator is genuine about getting help and potential reasons for resisting getting help to achieve happiness. A very complex issue as you stated. Thank you 🌞
Thank you for classifying my ex's behaviour. At the time, I thought he was emotionally stunted & we could try to learn how to argue. It was only the year before we divorced that I learned all these traits in 1 person ... dooms each person. This info you provide is GOLD, & rescues people!
I thought it would be over after I got divorced but the toxicity doesn't end just because you split up. 10 years later and I can finally say it out loud: he was abusing me. For so long I actually thought it was my fault. We have children and there's been massive problems with working together, my ex accusing me of child abuse in front of teachers, psychologists, counsellors etc. At the same time he never wanted them at his house and now they don't want to see him. Every lie he tells about me is just a continuing of our toxic marriage. Maybe a follow up Dr. Grande? "How to cooperate with your ex after the divorce."? Thank you so much for your helpful videos.
I think counseling is so valuable and is a great litmus test for determining whether certain behaviors are toxic. It helps provide me with an objective opinion and guidance. I really also love listening to your channel because you're an experienced professional who explains complex topics in a way that is easy to understand. Thank you!
The changes one makes in an established, consistent daily routine seem the most challenging...just look at addiction...which seems representative of an internalized toxic relationship. Some people gravitate toward such relationships and seem to experience themselves and others as both victim and victimizer...It's hard to untangle the 2: within the self and outside of it. This really conjured deep thought. Thanks.
My sister always said she could tell when I was in an unhappy (bad) relationship when I started complaining about him all the time. It may sound kind of funny but how we speak about the person or the relationship is a huge reflection of how we’re feeling.
Thank you, Dr. Grande, for another great video. My marriage has many elements of toxicity. All of the ones you mentioned and some others, too. However, I am so gratified to hear you express optimism that the toxicity can be ameliorated by making small changes in routines and habits. I love my husband and knew that he was quite damaged when we married. I'm also a survivor of an abusive childhood. I've always known that no marriage of which I am a part, would ever be perfect. Year by year, my husband and I make small improvements upward from our nadir, with the belief that the actions of love can make us better than we were in the beginning.
My ex pretty much checked all of those, i'm not perfect either, but damn, it's so like this. Being unable to discuss my emotions especially and all the literal psycho screaming and antagonism and the unending fighting when i was ready to just let it go and even say i'm wrong even though i'm not. She almost destroyed me as a person. But i'm recovering now, on my own. It's crazy how quickly my life got better once she was out of the picture.
i was once in a relationship feeling constant anxiety and doubt about my perceptions all the time, and couldn't understand what's wrong. Then he said "no one will ever love you the way i do" and "where are you going to go? you can't be without me". I left. Felt relief bigger than ever in my life.
Dr Grande you have changed my life! I was raised in a narcissistic family and ended up with a narcissistic partner.. thank you for helping me weed my way through this
Thank you! Wow, incredible. This was nearly word for word what it was like with my vulnerable narcissistic ex. And ya, grand gestures mean nothing! Little things, he would never change. And he would resent me for even asking for small things. But he thought that throwing a birthday party would make up for all shit in the past. He deliberately took me bowling for my bday, even though every single birthday of mine prior I chose to go to karaoke, and it was the obvious choice. Even my friends all said to him, "are you sure? Maybe you should take her to karaoke." He consistently told them all, no, and when I asked out of curiosity later why we didnt go go karaoke, he flipped out at me. "You're so ungrateful! I did so much for you and you don't even appreciate it! I'm never throwing you another bday party!" He even lied to me and tried to blame my friends, saying THEY didnt want to go to karaoke. When I asked them all what happened, they all said the exact same story. He told them about the party at a time I wasnt there and they were all in the same room together and they all said to me individually, "we told him he should plan to go go karaoke but he said he wanted to go bowling for a change." When I told him I asked all my friends and they all have the same story, you're the only one with a different one, he then shunned all of my friends for a long time and made them feel scared to come and visit me in my home because of his coldness. He always got mad at me for maintaining my friendships with them. And now, after the break up, he is STILL bringing up the birthday from over a year ago now, saying, " I knew ever since then that I didnt wanna be with you, you ungrateful bitch." Even though it was after my birthday that he wouldnt stop nagging to move into my place, and after moving in that he lost his job, and never attempted to find a new one, and started cheating on me with ppl on plenty of fish. Like, WOW. Can you say narcissist much?? He fits the description to a T. Thanks Dr. Grande, for yet another amazingly accurate breakdown!
Dr. Grande, listening to your videos is very real within my life, having grown up in Middle East Narcissism and Codependency are two pillars of the environment. Sadly most men grow up in narcissism and most women grow up codependent, at times with age women turn slightly Narcisstic with their daughter or son In laws occasionally. Some cultures intentionally produce such ways it seems. I would love to see more cross cultural coverage on these topics. Thank you and thank you for your work, wisdom and sharing
Spot on this is my Partner to a T. He's a Narcissist. I've learnt how to deal with him and no longer get upset. I give him his own medicine. He does all the things you've mentioned. I'm enjoying my life with my Son and my Furkid so I'm no longer a victim. He's 68 out of shape and drinks alot. He's a good provider. No need to leave. Love your videos ❤
I remember in grad school we had to write a bio psychosocial assessment of Aileen Wuornos. It was great. I love how Dr Grande uses infamous cases to discuss traits, characteristics and indicators of different mental health illnesses/diagnosis
spot on. Narcissism is such an overused word by many people who do not understand the basic nature of the beast of the cluster of behaviors. But toxic is clear, that the relationship is harmful, without blaming or labelling- the relationship is poisonous. We'd be stupid to take poison so why would we continue to take daily doses of poison in a relationship? If you are in this situation where counseling has failed to make quick meaningful changes to reduce toxicity, calmly cut bait and move away from the toxic relationship. It's simple, yet it's hard but well worth it.
Thank you Dr Grande, or conveying beautifully your science and experience in a very detailed way.. A bird's eye view, at the same tlme... your optimistic outlook is not for people who have decided to leave, but for those who are looking out for ways to repair and stay. I am 70 years old, mother of two grown-up men, married for 42 years, and have lived through enough experience to know exactly what you are talking about so beautifully. Thank you so much. I have been following you for the last one year, extensively. Looking on for all of your future conferences.
Another sign: you are not the same person you were before the relationship. Psychopaths can turn a confident, strong, kind, normal person into a nervous white mouse - afraid of its own tail. This happened to my friend and I have tried to help him for over 1 year to leave but the gaslighting is too strong. I told him to get professional help because he is too brainwashed. All 7 signs present.
This is me im not me anymore since i married. I dont know if I genuinely feel guilty cause i know i wasnt the best husband or she guilts trips me and manipulates me? I feel lost.
Every single thing he described, I lived through. During the split, wasn't sure I'd ever actually be free of him completely or make it out alive. Scariest thing I've ever been through. After three years, I still have a physical reaction if I see him out or driving down the road
Absolutely don't have contact with them (or as little as possible) and just start trying to have a life again. Watch the shows you wanted to watch on t.v. eat the dinners you like, that you couldn't have. Read the books, and go to the places that you wanted to go, but couldn't. Get some counseling or therapy. And enjoy being in a space by yourself that someone isn't always screwing with you, or deliberately making every problem worse. Nobody hiding or destroying your stuff, spending all your money or keeping money from you. Enjoy your privacy. Enjoy being able to sleep at night without someone keeping you up. Nobody going through your things. Just enjoy the peace and quiet, and get some counseling if you can.
No contact. Therapy. Avoid new relationships as long as you are not used to just being close to yourself. Build up self respect first, you‘ll always only get as much respect from others as you are able to respect yourself. As long as you are vulnerable, people will notice and some will abuse the vulnerability to mark the healer and put a foot in the door. People who have gone into a relationship with a narcissist tend to find another narcissist, as long as they don‘t work on reprogramming, mostly there‘s low self-esteem, anxious-avoidant, or dependent personality traits/disorders in partners of narcissists. It‘s likethe lid to a pan
I mean the behaviour of your narcissistic partner/husband should be enough for you to detach yourself emotionally! Personally, people behaviour and disrespect disgusted me a lot so whatever "feeling" I had for him/them? All gone.
I really like that you are practical snd realistic in terms of your advice. You aknowledge that leaving is not always an option and sympathize with that.
All of this was in my marriage. I used to get in our bed at night and start to shake, the shakes were so deep almost like I was going into shock. It didn’t happen every night but pretty often. Once we were divorced and I had my own space I noticed I didn’t shake anymore.
l was in this kind of relationship, left it , filed for Divorce, got 6 yrs of Therapy to get over the hurt and l have stayed single since and probably will be the rest of my life because l never want to experience that again in my life. lt was killing my spirit slowly and l am so much happier now.
@@lolavelmar2996 Not for the first hour I'm awake. Please shut the fuck up. It's probably narcissistic of me, but has helped my relationship a lot. Or maybe it's not healthy but cut down the exhausting fighting a lot
I’m so glad people are finally realizing how harmful this is. Of course they always say it’s to avoid arguments or “drama”... even though they do it when there’s no such things or they are creating the issue
Great video, doc. To me, it's pretty simple. In relationship, one person is there for another, and vice versa. If one person is for themselves using another, and another is in constant fixer and pleaser, attempting to comprehend the dynamics at the same time and picking little bits and pieces of self validation from another (learning to live with less), I call it toxic.
@Thegodsunwantedchild Theres an old relationship saying I use to hear: "I can do bad on my own, I dont need no help". So yes, people I think who contribute to toxic relationships are toxic to themselves. Toxicity is festering inside and erupts eventually. It has to have an affect on themselves too. Also like the expression, " I'm my own worse enemy". But I'm no expert here...lets see what the doc has to say!
I believe I'm toxic to myself because I selfsabatoge. It's very harmful and I realize it's a defense mechanism because I feel no control over my life due to toxic people. It's just so overwhelming everyday dealing with these people so I chainsmokers and tend to overdo everything because I can't control anything. I'm working on it😁
"It's the little things we change in our daily life that actually make the difference " for me that's true. I stumbled upon a way of thinking that has literally brought me out of darkness...I started picturing myself as a character in a book...what would I ,as the reader, desperately want (protagonist) me to do? Then I would make small adjustments to get in line with that path. Changing my response to entitled, toxic behaviours inevitably changed the dynamic. Time will tell if the changes in my husband (and me) are enduring! Thank you for your counter narrative to this plethora of bs about narcissists on you tube! You are a refreshing voice of reason...and funny! You summed it up in the Michael Jackson video saying "I don't like boring things" The funniest things are true. I appreciate you covering really heavy things, your sense of humor for me is bang on. brings relief. A
Good one Dr. G. Usually the advice is just leave so I'm glad you touched on that. Also the physical reaction when they leave or come home... right on! Finally your optimism was refreshing and gave me a bit of hope. Thank you Sir.
1. A lot of arguing without resolution...A relationship without forgiveness
2. The toxic person wishes you were dead or gone...Sex lacks emotional component...
3. Unfounded accusations
4. Unhelpful personality and resentful treatment
5. Unhelpful communication style...badgering or aggressive behavior...refusal to recognize process or principles...nobody apologizes except you the victim
6. Excessive fantasy....what would it be like if I escaped or got another partner?
7. Manipulation...spending money to hurt partner...silent treatment... isolating behavior esp. where counseling is concerned...
Thank you Dr G
Jeanette York ive been in unhealthy relationships with men my entire adult life. beginning with my first marriage at age 18which lasted 17yrs. he was an abusive alcoholic. i managed to finally get enough courage to get me and my 2young children away from the crazy fool. im 58yrs old and ive only had 1 relationship(my late husband)that wasnt toxic/abusive. i stopped dating 4yrs ago because of being hurt so many times. i dont evn trust my own judgement anymore because im drawn to those type men for some unhealthy reason. all of the points you made i can personally relate to. its a sad and scary life.
Cathy T you can learn to find healthy relationships! You are great.
#2 is so so sad, my God, no one should go through this
Exactly what I experienced the past 3 months.
Yea this is my relationship right now she says i make her jealous.. I don't think its that. I beleive since her father died she has some psychological deffect from that and her upbringing.. Im hoping it will get better. I have to be patient.
I have been married to a wonderful man for sixteen years. I’ve been in toxic relationships. Being older and somewhat wiser I would rather live alone than be with someone who is toxic
Being happy alone is one of the most important things I learned to do as an adult. (Not truly alone. One must have a cat, lol.)
Absolutely! I’ve never been lonely till I was married to the wrong person.
@@wolfafterdark I completely agree and I also have a cat. 🐈
i'm only 31 but i've been in enough serious, multiple-year relationships that turned toxic to completely agree at this point. bad experiences do make you wiser...as long as you get to live to be old enough to learn from it.
Thanks for sharing because it gave me hope.
I struggled to get out of a toxic marriage (I identified with about 90% of this video). Because I finally did get out, I am now dealing with the aftermath of divorce: financial, emotional, and logistical devastation. Do I regret it? Not even for a moment.
I am alone now, but I have peace, and I have taken the situation as an opportunity to heal, learn, and change... hell, I even have a lot of hope for a happy future! What is the value of that?
Thank you for this video Dr. Grande.
Ive been there so hope you are doing well life gets better🙂
Dez -
I hope you’re doing well now
You do have much fortitude, l admire you. At 67yr old and after 16 yrs of chaotic hell, l feel inspired by yr attitude, Thanks.
Dez - I just got out and I’m devastated emotionally. I’ve escaped but broken my own heart
@@ThangNguyen-kk1wh you might live to 100 yrs old. Still time for love and life and joy.
You really don’t know what trapped means until you have children with a narcissistic “partner”.
This also applies to having a sibling who is a narcissistic parent who then deliberately started a family WITH another narcissist
@@DrLuke49 eeeekk 😬
I understand!!
I am SO grateful that my ex husband got physically abusive with me. It's the only reason I was able to save my son from him.
What about a partner with narcissistic children?
I would love a video on how the perpetrator makes the victim look crazy or like the bad guy. How they bait and bait and bait, and when you finally stand up for yourself, they immediately try to take on the role of the victim.
The name for the outsize reaction one can eventually have to repeated baiting is "reactive abuse."
Isn't that 'gaslighting'?
Yeah that happened to me, some time has passed now and I’m like..,wow I was really far gone for something like that to work
@Madeline Monahan
Lol
They have the ability to convince others that you are wrong. Or wrong headed.
I would add another sign of a toxic relationship is when one person is motivated to get into couples counseling, read about healthy relationships, and gain understanding what makes a relationship healthy while the other person is completely passive. Perhaps the passive person isn’t the most psychologically minded and tends to avoid personal insight. It just seems to me like being in a relationship is really about being vulnerable, Open, and mutual caretaking. When one person is avoidance of those important aspects, it certainly seems to create a toxic dynamic.
I wonder if that is considered passive aggressive. Anyway, i had the same problem in my 17 years of marriage. I was always wanting to communicate and get professional help in order to make the relationship better/stronger, but my husband for some reason just kept dragging his feet. I don’t know why some people have trouble opening up or being vulnerable , but i feel it’s necessary in a relationship. But not to even try by getting some counseling just boggles my mind and makes you wonder what they are so afraid of or why they wouldn’t want to try to make things better. Especially when there are children involved. I will never understand that. Ever.
@@joywilliams4014 because being vulnerable is not what a narcissist voluntarily does. If a narcissist goes to therapy they risk being called out; a professional might see through a lot of their manipulation if they debate too much. So they either lie and manipulate the therapist (and therefore achieve nothing of benefit from the session) or they go into a mostly passive role to try seem meek and vulnerable (in their mind) but without actually acknowledging their faults
100%
With my last relationship, I was "hoodwinked" and realized I was trapped in a relationship with a narcissist with ASPD tendencies. I am now free from him crazy sadistic ass for over a year now. This has made me self reflect on WHY I KEEP GETTING INVOLVED WITH TOXIC PEOPLE.
I had to rid of him and even family, and I do NOT feel guilty about this one iota. Its a shame I had to learn what self-love means at almost 46 years old. 😢
Thanks Doc! Another great video.
I'm right there in that club with you. I don't seem to attract anyone except toxic people. I'll end up a hermit, and that's okay with me, as long as I have my pets.
You keep getting involved with them because there are just too many of them to avoid. I suppose we will never be able to avoid them until someone creates a mind-reading maching. Don't blame yourself.
@@veltonmeade1057 I agree 100%. I think the toxic density within the population has increased substantially over the past 20 years. Trust your gut...
Many Doctor and Therapist say we keep letting these kind of toxic relationship happening because we are codependent, people pleaser
@Natasha Grootjans aspd stands for antisocial personality disorder
Thinking my single life isn't so bad right about now...
Estelle A I assume you have a cat.
Its not bad. Being alone isn't bad at all. Most times I enjoy, but it can be lonely.
@@SweetBlackSistah they say when the right person comes along you will know it... Until then, I'm chillin and all good. I hope you are too :)
@@Estelle-Maureen chile, Im not even expecting anything from anyone. My trust in humans is pretty much non-existent. I'm just living. 😊
@@SweetBlackSistah sameness!
I've just escaped a relationship like this. I've been in this for 13 years. My brain is fried. Thanks for the upload
I can't even get out bed half the time.
I know it's snarky comments and fighting.
I've tried shutting up, fighting back, being logical and calm, avoiding all together.
The fact is they will seek you out
@@thebeasters yeah, I can identify two people in my life that create toxic dynamics like these, they bring the toxic smog with them. I can always predict when things are about to go sour and I walk off immediately, and most of the time they chase after me to scream at me when I make my way to a safe space. I can't even run from it lmao, they scream so loud.
It took me years to recover, I understand what you mean about your brain being fried
We all need to know our worth. We shouldn't settle for anyone who doesn't lift us up 🙂
Yes! The fried brain. It's the reason we also stay longer in the relationship because we cannot think clearly.
SIlent treatment seems to be confused a lot, telling your partner you need a time out or to think before you talk about something is healthy, purposelly ignoring someone for whatever reason until it infuses some sort of reaction isn't
True.... i kept thinking when i would hear about the silent treatment being a symptom. I don’t talk for a while after an argument but it’s because i have absolutely nothing to say.
@@rockulikeahurricane not talking isn't the same as silent treatment
Zanillani very true
@e [insert a big, loving, and understanding hug here] You deserve so much better than that, and as much as it hurts, it is wonderful that you have chosen to focus on yourself (it will feel freeing when the pain fades) and not be subjected to such oblivious abuses, which weaken the heart in more ways than one :(
Dedicating myself to a cause has helped me a lot in discovering myself and healing, as I am helping others heal. I chose to do rescue work, I rehabilitate animals (usually only one or two at a time, as I can), most of whom are rescued from farm abuse. For one and a half months now, I've been rehabilitating two battery hens. Watching them discover freedom, and life's joys, for the first time, and overcoming mental and physical disorders and trauma, and building a trusting relationship with them where once there was only fear, is very emotional and inspiring. I've discovered things about myself I never would have had the chance to otherwise. And it's helped me really discover my worth. Just mine, outside of any romantic relationship. I highly recommend giving it a try.
The Ex checked many of these boxes. Which clarifies a lot. Glad I've moved on.
I'm so glad you did. Not many do sadly.
1st 3:10 Chronic, protracted argumentation without resolution or forgiveness.
2nd 4:39 The victim feels their partner wishes them dead and 5:13 Dread of sex, relief when partner leaves for the day.
3rd 6:08 Unfounded accusations of victim ruining toxic person's life, infidelity.
4th 6:31 Unhelpful personality and temperament characteristics.
5th 7:03 Unhelpful communication style, e.g., persistent badgering beyond signs of submission and sorrow.
6th 9:11 Excessive fantasy. Calculating benefits of leaving.
7th 9:54 Manipulation.
0:00 Intro
11:45 Can a toxic relationship be saved? Should it be saved?
13:49 What is and what is not successful.
14:15 Outro
Currently stuck in a toxic relationship. And truth be known I have never had a “ normal” relationship. This was a good eye opener.
Know that feeling. I figured I would get attracted to guys who "need help". Nurturing side would play right into the narc looking for bait.
PLEASE TRY TO ESCAPE ASAP. I have been in lots of toxic relationships too. Thankfully survived them all. If you can't escape, please BE CAREFUL, AND TAKE CARE.
I would get nauseous when my boyfriend would drink and start arguments. The physical feelings are very real
That is like my relation...he turns from nice to evil in 2 seconds...😰
Not being willing to admit when you are wrong, and apologize, is a very destructive habit.
Carole Just Carole,You look gorgeous 🌹🌹,hope you are not with a narc 😈!!
I have a huge issue with this and it scares me I don't want to be toxic to my partner... any tips on how to see when you are wrong in an argument?
@@christianpulisic7784 🐱 🐟
Yes, this is one of most painful topics- not even take little effort to say sorry or thank you! It seems so childish to pay attention to apologies and absolutely not even take it seriously. This ignorance to acknowledge your human pain and tears!
@@kingjadyn5669 at least you have doubts and sensitivity- this means a lot!
The ability to say *no* and still *be well* might be the core measure of Toxic Relationships.
I'm just awakening to how much I have not been caring for myself. Realizing the most basic standards of my inherent value, and how I will allow others to treat me, brings to the forefront the *imperative* of *volluntary relationships* - in all public & private interactions.
Travis Jordan great points took me a long time to implement.
Wow. Yeah. Being able to say no is so important.
Great point!!
Wow! Ty Dr Grande. I’ve been divorced for 20 years and listening to this video, articulated my marriage relationship. I had an ulcer in the end. When my mother died-I was 25 years old, my husband yelled at me when I came to tell him her diagnoses, “Don’t you know everyone’s going to die”? No empathy. He used to say, the best defense in an argument is a good offense. We were married 22 years. I didn’t believe I could survive if I left. But I did. I confess, I’m scared to get into another toxic relationship. I
sally ATARI,You are beautiful 🌹🌹🌺,I think you deserve better 🙏🙏🙏
The ex hit all marks wow. Thank you. I always would fantasize on escaping especially towards the end.
Rahel T Rocca Ha-ha-ha! You made my day.
Same here
I felt like i was in a cult and even going to home depot felt like a chance to be saved
if your calling it a escape.......................its from a narc
I had decided........that's it. Had enough. Didn't even really understand narcissism etc just SICK OF BEING TREATED SO BADLY. Got home from a hospital stay and the bastard had died on me. I didn't even have the chance to throw him out!!!! DAMN!!!!!! ALIVE AND DEAD HE SCREWED WITH ME!!!!!!
I started learning all this stuff afterwards.
I lived in a toxic marriage for almost 17 years. You have described almost everything I went through with my ex husband during that time. I tried so much to fix things by being patient and seeking counseling but nothing worked. I’ve been divorced and alone for 10 years and I do not date because I am so scared of going through the same again.
Well, you get out of that mess. You're so brave. Now healing from it, learning about what is okay and what is not for me in a relationship with you.
I was married 17 years to a borderline type narcissist, been divorced 15 years! This video describes so much. If you can afford to do Terri Coles programs, I recommend, if not or and look into Dr Ramani's program, hers is affordable $25 per month. I am happily married to my second husband and it is quiet wonderful to live within a healthy relationship ! Had to learn how to have boundaries for myself and speak up with my desires and needs. Still learning how to be a healthy partner myself.
This was my entire "relationship" for 15 years that I could not get out of... He is still not out of my life, yet, although we stopped living together 2 years ago. He still contributes financially - pretty much controls that aspect. Actually hearing all of these points in a row has made me realize that now, at 39 years old, I don't think I want another romantic relationship, ever. I spent that long in a situation like that and had no idea it was toxic? I have c-ptsd, pretty isolated, and was raised in a family of abusive, criminal narcissists. At least I can start to protect myself, and others (since I think I must be pretty toxic)... while attending the therapy I plan to get as soon as possible.
Definitely described the same deal as me. Still stuck because of financial problems and kid's.
Probably a good idea, while you heal and process what you’ve been through. After I did that, my philosophy was, “I’m not going to let my ex steal one more day of love from me.” Remarried for a year now, to a loving and supportive man.
Glad that you stopped living together, but financial control still gives him a lot of power. It’s been two years since your comment. I hope you’re doing better. The more independent you can be from him and the family you mentioned, the more you’ll be able to protect yourself and control your own destiny.
The same problem- you need a lot of energy to get out, financial fear, when you see all those homeless under brides and he knows it!
@@lylameri9082 I have the same feelings, that he stilling each beautiful morning from me.
Based on the title this is going to be a popular upload.
As far as someone seeking counseling, or not wanting to, there are PLENTY of EXTREMYLY CRAPPY counselors out there. That would be a reason I would tend not to run to them. I have seen and experienced very manipulative situations as far as seeking help from supposed "professionals." Just because someone would rather not partake of that aspect of society running to someone else to figure out their problems, does not mean it is fear. My sister has gone to counsellors and psychiatrists for YEARS and she is one of the most unhappy, unfulfilled people I know. I listen to your videos because you are logical, and neutral. Not many are like you Dr. Grande.
Relationships should never leave you feeling awful *ALL* the time. If a relationship leaves you feeling that way all the time, it's a good sign that either you need to get out of it, OR insist that the other person work with you to fix the problems or you're leaving.
I tried to go to counseling with my husband and it didn't help. After 30 years , today I told him to leave. I am 54 and I am on my own for the first time in my life. It's scary , but I wish I had done this years ago 🥳
@@janycebrown4071 you will never look back. This is the beginning for you. The best thing you could ever do. The only answer. Stay no contact if possible for ever. You are brave 🌟
About two years ago I got out of a very manipulative and emotionally abusive relationship and this video just really hits home. If anyone out there is questioning if they can move past their relationship, you got this!!
Oh man, that #1....Threats to leave? Yes, please...go! FREEDOM!!!
Angela C,You are beautiful 🌹🌹🥀,hope you are not with a narc 😈!!
Absolutely! Freedom!!!
This video saved me from a terrible, no good, super bad relationship on December 4th of 2019. Thanks again.
With narcissists there is also starting arguments as a diversion or to excuse bad behaviour, like picking a fight so they can leave the house to cheat. If the argument is being used for manipulation I find even if you try to diffuse it by taking their side, they will even start disagreeing with their original stance that you are agreeing with, just to make sure the argument escalates.
She sounds aweful. Just saying...
This will help so many people. My ex hit all 7 of these signs. He not only refuse to work on it, he doubled down and when from toxic to abuses other than emotional. There was no choice but to leave. I do agree with you that it can be changed IF both parties work on it. I don't understand how leaving being an option and not being the best idea. I'd be interested in clarification on that. Your videos very often give me other insights into things, so I'm more than willing to hear ya out on a lot of controversial statements.
I’m glad you were able to leave. My ex used to tell me that if I left he would and the very least get visitation and that one day he would not bring them back and he would disappear. This was pre internet and he wasn’t close to his family so I knew he would do it. I stayed for 26 years and haven’t been in a relationship since. I still have trouble believing that I’m good enough even though I have 3 grown children and 4 granddaughters that love me unconditionally. Sorry to pour my heart out to you I just was happy for you.
@@TheJhansonfan I'm so happy you are able to have contact with your grown children and grandchildren, I wasn't that lucky my freedom came with a price,he told me on a text he would have my children hateing me before it was over and he did, I'm alone and by myself now,I escaped that horrific mess almost 5 years ago, but haven't spoken too my adult daughter's in over a year and half, my therapist keep telling me they will come around one day,but it maybe to late when they won't be able to see their mother at all, I've greived the loss of my daughter's and grandchildren,I no I'll never seem them ever again.
@@kimkilgore148 Hi! Stay strong! There are a number of support groups on FB for Estranged Parents! As well as helpful books! ' Done with the Crying' by Sheri McGregor..
I’m in a severely toxic relationship. I’m trying to get out. Thank you!!
Go for it Lori Anne.
Me too but hard to find a place with the pandemic. Been in it for 33 years. I was just today thinking about my marriage. About how its so toxic and he drinks to top it off. He's not physically abusive but its bad just the same. Ahhhh im worn out from it all.
At least when you realized it, you know how to get directions to get out from this tunnel! This session for me was like a silver lining.
Same
Me too is trying to escape toxic husband
Thank you for a brilliantly constructed narrative , deconstructing this tricky subject. When enmeshed in toxic relationships it is hard to pin point what is essentially wrong for the partner who is constantly kept off balance, on the back foot questioning themselves. But I do think the psychological and physiological damage to the person on the receiving end in toxic relationships such as you are so specifically describing cannot be underestimated, it can be irreversible without a lot of support & professional help. Also if the perpetrator is not willing to commit to change & take responsibility, it is undoubtedly better to leave particularly in the case of NPD.
Hi Dream Big...Honestly this stuff should be taught in school. It’s astonishing that sooo many people, (good people), get into these destructive relationships. Man I could’ve really used this information fourth years ago. I have been divorced for 16 years from a 17 years marriage and still haven’t recovered from the emotional devastation. We actually are friends now, but I still harbor a lot of resentment from all the pain and damage it caused for me emotionally. I wish that he would allow for an honest conversation so I can purge all the hurt inside...but that was part of the problem...no quality communication. The sad part is I feel I can never get into another serious relationship until that happens for me. I realize I had self esteem/insecurity issues prior to my marriage, which I had therapy for but never were really resolved, but that relationship crippled me even more. This Dr. seems amazing...but seems to late for me. Idk. I don’t especially like being alone, but relationships seem too risky.
You are absolutely right. The damages that result, especially and specifically when someone was exposed to NPD, are many and substantial damages. And yes, professional help is often needed to address it and to facilitate health and healing. Good comment 👍
when she yells"dont start!" everytime i try to express my lack of satisfaction about something....
Very frustrating!
@Sam Kelly read this book in the 90s
I really enjoyed this video, especially the fact that you brought signs that aren’t mentioned that much in other youtube videos like feeling physically sick and poor communication. Great video through and through :0)
Leaving a toxic relationship. At 62 years old I believe that these issues come up with a partner you need to resolve them you need to work them out because you'll bring them up again and again and again in different ways for different partners this is how we heal by being aware of our bad behavior period and working through it with your partner to resolve these childhood issues. The problem I have is so much damage has been done from childhood that it's literally ingrained in my bones. I had a terrible abusive childhood that I barely survived. They even tricked me into a mental place when I was 15 years old and gave me shock treatment I have absolutely no memory of how long I was there and what all happened to me I am devastated from this action they took against me. How do you get out of something like that. Abandonment issues oh yeah big-time
My wife is sitting next to me teasing me in fun about binge watching your channel. The behaviours you describe here are all to familiar to me from my family of origin, not my marriage - we discuss things calmly, deliberately comparing options, looking for unintended consequences and trade-offs, usually with humour, before coming to joint decisions. We look out for one another's best interests; for instance, she encouraged me for about two years to finally buy the car I really want, helping me to overcome the sense of guilt programmed from my childhood at the thought of obtaining something I want. My point is not to counter the content of the video but to emphasise that while toxic relationships certainly exist, they are not inevitable and should not be regarded as normal.
Lucky you. My girlfriend actually gives me shit for being too reasonable
Thank you for hope, I feel like much of that was just sucked out of me over last 8 to 10 years which includes a failed marriage with a narc and a shitty relationship with a covert narc. I would give just about every piece of me I have left for something like that. But all I can do is keep working on me and with any luck some day things will be right comfortable sane and not just blurs of strong emotions that cut onto you over and over once past the attention caring and love stage once the confusion concern sadness and then despair show up it's as hard a thing as I have ever had to face emotionally and it's just completely draining of all the positive feelings leaving you almost as hollow as the emptiness of a narc's soul.
I thumbsd down your comment , i give my bitch the hands if dinner aint cooked 😎
@@jameschichi59 - SHUT UP -james / Jacka**
💕
This is very reassuring and comes at just the right time. My partner and I are working our way out of a troubled DSM-loaded relationship with deliberation and a lot of help; but two weeks ago I all but gave up and howled that this is a toxic relationship and there is no hope. One of our counselors disagreed and said try to look at the trajectory and see how far we've come over the years, and watching this video has brought to mind so many sad ways of interacting we don't engage in anymore and states of being I don't experience as a result. I need to give my man some credit for all he's accomplished, I had no idea, but it's true, we have changed. Thanks again Dr. Grande for making this stranger's life explicit to herself.
Really refreshing to hear advice in support of not running away from problems. Truth is that problems have the habit of travelling with us to new destinations, and if not resolved properly, they grow larger.
Watching your video brought me back to my first husband. That toxic relationship lasted a very long two years. So glad I left. There was no fixing that.
Such a great video to help peeps in a bad relationship! Still enjoying my freedom the last 12 years after saying bye bye. Some people do not want to change. Thanks Dr. Grande. ✌🏽
Thank you for this balanced and helpful information - its so hard to see these red flags when we are "in love" with or bonded to a toxic person. Very helpful signs to look out for.
12:10 wise words - I think you suggest that happiness and peace could be better result than the the repaired relationship. As an empath, I had to let go of my high views (demands if you want to call them that) of what a relationship could ever be, and simply go back to every day working on myself, by myself, for myself. This unravelled a lot of harm that was happening regularly and allowed me to start achieving results that were intrinisically beneficial to me - critically important to the rebuild of my self respect. The emotional loss was great, but was very quickly replaced by the joy of little things like money saved, fitness regained, and finanical plans made. All this sure does disarm the perpetuator - when they aren't able to ankle-tap everything... Go get it people, stop waiting, complaining, expecting, and go start doing.
This me! Glad he left me! I'm at a much much better place now. I was sinking when with him and didn't want to admit it because I had this desperate grasp on the relationship - didn't want to be single again. But actually, single life way waaaay more fulfilling for me.
Thank you, Dr. Grande. I appreciate the clarification.... my dad just said that “mental case” is a great catch all for all these groups of disorders. He’s 81. He said my mom was a mental case (borderline with narcissist traits) so now I seek out that to heal my toxic relationship with her. (She’s passed). Thank you so much for this!
If a person has a tendency to physically lash out, walking away during an argument and going somewhere else is a good idea. I often need time to cool down and think in the middle of an argument. I don’t “time out” to punish; I do it to stop things from getting crazier.
You uploaded this right when I needed it
this is so true! Thank you for sharing, its nice to get a professional view!
I have had ptsd for years bcs of really bad relationships...at least he has been gone for a while now...but i still have ptsd from it ...even years after it ended! It's nice to know im not the only one who has gone through such a nightmare
I'd like to hear more about how the silent treatment is a manipulation and how to deal with that on a constant basis. How you try and try to engage and it makes you feel crazy because the other person makes it seem like they're so wonderful because they're not saying anything but you're "bad" because you want to address the issue. Like if you would just ignore their behaviors and issues in the relationship then everything would be fine. They are very controlling but in a passive way.
Vena Jensen,You are beautiful 🌹🌷,hope you are not with a narc 😈!!
I'd like to hear about it too! And how when the other person needs a "break" or "space" instead of communicating or resolving an issue. In my case this person wanted the break to start talking to someone else and date around aka cheat during this "break" while keeping me around.
I know the feeling I go through the same thing
I look forward to experiencing a non toxic romantic relationship once in my life. So far, my batting average is dismal.
K2scuba Same here.
Same 😔
Work on self, awaken, become self aware so you don’t meet and attract such characters, because that’s so common.😌
I was like that too until I finally met my bf a year ago. I didn’t like him at first i even resented him for no reason, I realized my comfort zone was with toxic people and thus I always attracted to them.
But I keep pushing myself to see my bf as who he is instead of letting my irrational feelings on the way and he really shows me how secure relationship works. We communicate about everything that we feel, all problems. We use words to describe what we feel instead of acting out our feelings. I’m forever grateful for him and I hope you can break your cycle of toxic partners too.
Break the cycle and step out of your comfort zone. Good luck!
Good lord it's like I am in a cycle of every woman I date ends up being a narcissist either overt or covert. I often used to joke by saying if she's crazy then she will fall in love with me almost instantaneously. Now sadly I am not joking about it anymore
I found this video incredibly helpful, informative, and accurate. The only thing I disagree with, is the end part about trying to "save" the toxic relationship. More frequently than not, I've noticed than trying to "save" it is a total waste of time. I think that an individual has a right to happiness and to be with the kind of partner he/she wants and needs, without trying to conform to anything less. And more so, if one is totally willing to give/offer what one wants and expect from our partner.
By all means, yes, try to save the relationship if that's possible - especially night there are children involved. But having to "accept" that some of that toxic behavior (or nature, or inclinations) is going to be present, to one degree or another, is not acting out of self-love - we have a right to live the kind of life we want to live. Otherwise, I think this video is a masterpiece!!
I admire your optimistic outlook Dr. Grande!!! Thank you for another great video!!!
Same!!! This is super complex and I loved how he ended it with him saying in his opinion a toxic relationship can be saved but it takes work. ❤️🥰
I understand every relationship has its ups and downs. Good you do a video about the opposite topic. A video about signs, examples of a healthy + good relationship?
Thanks doc 😊
That's a good idea - I am so used to dealing with problems, I will really have to give some thought to the positive signs -
@@DrGrande 👍
Thank you for asking that question .☺
Good idea. My indicators of a healthy relationship are how you feel when you are with the other person, respect and healthy boundaries. Both partners making an effort, mutual effective communication and conflict resolution. Just a few ideas.
pocoeagle2 awesome idea!ive learned to doubt my own choices because of fear that the relationship.will be just a repeat of the last. i was in what i consider a healthy relationship only 1time in my life and got to see just a portion of it because he died from cancer just6wks shy of our 2nd wedding anniversary. i would love to see the flip side of this too. thanks for suggesting it. 😀
You indicate here Dr G that staying is at times unavoidable. If I would’ve stayed longer I would’ve preferred to be dead. These relationships are gut wrenching. Personally, my spirit just can’t handle it. I am finally at peace. I do what I want, when I want, there’s no price tag too high! As always, thank you for your passion and knowledge!!
Thanks for this video, Dr. G. I found this to be really helpful. :)
Do you think you might be able to make a video about signs of a healthy relationship? I grew up in a home where my parents had a very bad marriage which ended in divorce, and I've had several abusive or otherwise toxic relationships myself. When entering into new relationships I find myself second-guessing whether things are normal and healthy, because I don't really have a baseline against which to make that determination. It would be really helpful to me if you could address that kind of situation. :)
Really good idea
Yes, I would like that too.
Oh yeah, I've never really had good role models and have only relied on trial&error, theory, and anecdotes.
@@mars9399 I grew up being told , you don’t know anything. Then, I’ve been invalidated so much I don’t trust myself, even when I know I am right. I trust my kids, lol 😆 I ask them as back up confirmation. Thank God for them. Thank God’s Grace and mercy.
This is US!!!
You were describing my life. Me the MPD, him the N.
It's so difficult to get past my own mind and try to figure out what a "normal " person would think, say or act like at any given moment.
It's is so tough being a MPD. I feel like I'm trapped in a box jumping trying to escape and can't jump him enough over the walls or sides.
Thank you for all the hard work you put into each of your analysis.
All the relationships I have are toxic to one degree or another. Though of course I contribute to the dynamic with avoidant behavior. Still, I would not leave these relationships, they are all I have. They don't get physically violent, and most of the time I can prevent them from devolving into relentless, sadistic verbal abuse by standing up for myself consistently and being slightly verbally aggressive here and there, regularly. Loved the video, thanks for sharing
Those sound like highly toxic relationships, and I doubt they really are "all you have," or at least all you can have. Convincing the victim that the abuse is normal, and that the victim is alone are both common tactics of abusers. Don't fall into that trap. If you can't talk to a therapist, at least read about patterns of abuse so that you can recognize and avoid them
VarnaVix well said.
I hope you will keep searching for kind, safe, people. It is a whole other world, it actively nourishes you. If you can find even ONE warm, honest, forthright friend, it helps you to realize how good closeness with others can be, and it can help you to unlearn all the weird behaviors we adopted with our family in order to survive!
@@a.k.7424 That would be great. Its fine if I dont, but I like that its possible. I think I would have to actively seek this person. Cant see it just happening, specially now with Covid.
Wow my entire extended family is severely narcissistic.
Welcome to the club!
Can I join? 👋🏼😂
Common in India!!!😂
Not just interesting, you may well have saved my life. Thank you, for all you do. I love your content.
One of my options is when I did go to Therapy with my wife she used it to bind me and avoid any questions about her involvement and when I tried to explain my point of view she started to cry and misdirect acting as though I was being the aggressor which in turn escalated the division (frustrating me) this was over 10 years ago before I understood her Tactic, she never got better. Thanks again
Hope you are out of the relationship now.
I think you're optimistic outlook could really help somebody who might realize they're being toxic and want to change. I believe a lot of times people avoid therapy because they're afraid they're going to hear something they don't like, which might happen but to know that the therapist could be on their side in the sense that they want to help them become a better person and save a relationship that they, even as a toxic person, want;could give them the courage to seek help. I also think it could be helpful for the person who is the victim in a toxic relationship, yet who wants to save the relationship, to know it can be possible but only if both people put the work in. Your approach is both realistic but hopeful.
Thank you for this. Very helpful. The realization that my life is a mess is difficult but gives many areas to improve rather than sit back and fret about it.
The negatives were almost criminally hidden going in. Then I have to ask myself how much I participated in not seeing. No matter the answers, I think I’ve proved to myself that my people picker is broken. I’m nice to me. That will have to be enough, especially with the help of canine buddies and outside friends.
I hear you ! I’m working on forgiving myself for that. I didn’t know there could be such a evil. However , I am determined not to give up on people ! Yet !
Heather Whatever,You got a lovely smile 😊!!
@@christianpulisic7784 Thank you Christian.
@@matilda1505 I love people. I just don’t want to pursue a romantic relationship. I had a lifetime of that eggshell-fear thing and being at peace is just amazing. I have grown kids who had to come home for the lockdown so everyone gets to feel this house in a new way.
Yes, Never Apologized ! Even after Affair, blamed me for that too. And, yes, always grand gestures no real changes in behavior that were lasting.
My ex wanted a divorce. I suggested marriage counseling because I thought what we had was worth salvaging even though I didn't fully understand what was wrong. He picked out the counselor and we went and saw her individually. I asked if we could have a counseling session together and he said he wasn't comfortable with that. He ended up inviting his immediate family to counseling to work out past issues he apparently had with them. The counselor kept asking me about my mother which I thought was off-topic, or at least a distraction, from our marriage. I ended up having to pay around $800 for his sessions while I got mine free through EAP. We divorced. A few months later he married his coworker. So much deceit and cowardice. Just be honest and admit it was a family counselor, not a marriage counselor, and that seeing other people was preferable to staying together and working things out.
Kris,You are beautiful 🌹🌹🌷,you don't need a narc 😈 in your life!!
1. Arguments - My ex seemed to start a lot of arguments and would continue the argument for days. I would get to the point where id start crying and beg her to please stop and that I didn't want to fight. I'd tell her I love her and that my goal is never to upset her. She wouldn't stop though and would say I'm making myself the victim and would tell me to shut up when I cried. She'd also bring up the past as if it happened that day and tell me I lack remorse for past mistakes. I could never be forgiven even though I never made the mistake again. I didn't cheat or anything like that. I Just made a stupid choice when we were in a breakup. Or one time when someone had told me they dated her while her and I were together, I believed it and became very hurt. she denied it and made sure to remind me occasionally how I tried to villanize her. I had let it go though and trusted she was telling the truth.
2. Negative Feelings- I consistently felt like my ex would be happier without me around. She criticized so many things I'd do or not do and I started to diminish my presence to stay out of trouble with her. I felt unloved and unwanted. I started to get very depressed.
*Dreading Sex- I stopped wanting sex. I just felt so emotionally drained and hurt that the idea of sex was dreadful.
* Not feelings safe to share feelings- Anytime I shared a feeling, she'd use it against me or say I was being dramatic. I had some issues with my mom and I would share how I felt about it. I was sad about what was happening but instead of being understanding, she said I was wrong to have my feelings about it (which was sadness that we weren't getting along and that even so, I worried about my mom being alone). Then she said I talk trash about my mom. I never say anything mean about my mom. Also, if she'd be arguing with me, I'd tell her the things she was saying were hurtful. Again, she'd say I'm making myself the victim and that I have no right to complain.
*Physically sick- I constantly felt sick around her. Headaches, stomach irritations, body aches. I also felt very exhausted but when she was away, I didn't feel those things for a but. I'd be able to go to the gym and eat more food.
3. Unfounded accusations- She accused me of doing drugs, drinking alcohol, hooking up with co-workers, cheating on her (especially at work). If I wanted to go to my hometown to visit my family which I rarely ever saw. They lived a little over 600 miles away, she'd say "we all know what you do when you go to Texas." My son knows she said that and he said "all you do is lay on our couch and cry." I've never cheated on her nor do I do drugs or drink. She knows that about me. In the past, during some breakups, I did try going on dates to forget her but I didn't like my dates and stopped trying that.
4. Unhelpful personality aspects- I just never felt she cared about anything going on in my life. When my grandma was getting closer to death, she wasn't there for me and said "you work in a hospital, you can handle it." Then ignored me for a month. There were many other times I was going through a time or even when I had covid. She wasn't there for me and even asked me to help her move when she bought a new house. While I was sick with covid.
5. Unhelpful communication style-
*I mentioned above that she wouod badger. She would get mad about something then wouldnt stop badgering me about it. She was relentless and even when id beg her to stop or forgive me, she'd get more angry. If I told her she was hurting me or that I felt rejected by her, she'd say I was holding resentments. Nothing I said ever mattered. I've never received a single apology. she lied to me about a whole damn house she owned. I found out because an AC company called looking for her because her AC unit was leaking. So I told them she was at work and they asked me to come see the unit and that's when I found out about this house. I had been in her life about 4 or 5 years at that point and she hid it from me all that time! She didn't even apologize. she just blamed me for why she lied. Same with anytime she was seeing other people but staying in touch with me. When I'd find out about the others, she would blame me and never apologize. One evening I was trying to talk to her about something important that happened in the neighborhood, she wouldn't respond and kept looking at her phone so I stopped talking. Then she said I was playing games with her because I didn't tell her what happened.
6. Excessive Fantasy - planning. I didn't experience this so much. Instead I fantasized that if I became more appealing, she would love me.
7. Life with another partner- I just wanted her. only her.
8. Manipulation- I would save my money in a very disciplined way but she would spend a lot then said I was freeloading off her but I hadn't. she kept a close eye on my bank account and I would give her money monthly to help with the bills. She also got mad at me and said ever since I started seeing a therapist, I got worse and became impulsive. She also got mad at me for reaching out to my family for help and support when she would start fights with me. My friends and family rarely ever called me because they were afraid I'd get in trouble. I basically had no friends.
On July 7th 2022, I left her. She blamed me for an email she received from an ex of hers. 7 years prior, yes I did reach out to that ex to find out what was going on between them because I had a feeling they were seeing each other. That was a big mistake and I got involved in a messy situation with her awful ex. So 7 years later when her ex emailed and she blamed me, I became upset because we were way past that. She said she couldn't think of any reason why her ex would reach out to her unless I provoked it. I was understanding but also didn't feel it made sense. she didn't tell me the truth about the email. Her ex was wanting to know how SHE was and if SHE was married and that she hoped to hear from my now ex. I needed some space from the drama so I stepped back for 4 hours to ground myself which resulted in me being called selfish and a lot of other stuff. so I packed my bags and left. It has been extremely difficult and I cry every day but I couldn't live this way anymore.
This video should be spread widely so those who are going through a toxic relationship get the validation they need. I do disagree that leaving is an easy answer to a toxic relationship. Malignant people may claim to want to "work things out," but in reality they only want to continue to do as they please while deceiving and draining the partner. Leaving one of these people is necessary, but it is in no way easy to accomplish.
Unfounded accusations are very difficult to handle.
I would love for you to cover this topic in more depth too, maybe with more signs and how to tell at the beginning of a relationship to see red flags. Also if there may be any potential ways to differentiate between a rough patch and more long lasting problems which run deep. Any ways of telling if the perpetrator is genuine about getting help and potential reasons for resisting getting help to achieve happiness. A very complex issue as you stated. Thank you 🌞
Thank you for these ideas - I will add them to the production list -
@@brusselsprout5851 I'm sorry to hear about your troubles, may God bless you with happier times.
@@DrGrande that's great news, I look forward to more from you on this then. Thank you once again 👌
Thank you for classifying my ex's behaviour. At the time, I thought he was emotionally stunted & we could try to learn how to argue. It was only the year before we divorced that I learned all these traits in 1 person ... dooms each person.
This info you provide is GOLD, & rescues people!
I thought it would be over after I got divorced but the toxicity doesn't end just because you split up. 10 years later and I can finally say it out loud: he was abusing me. For so long I actually thought it was my fault. We have children and there's been massive problems with working together, my ex accusing me of child abuse in front of teachers, psychologists, counsellors etc. At the same time he never wanted them at his house and now they don't want to see him. Every lie he tells about me is just a continuing of our toxic marriage. Maybe a follow up Dr. Grande? "How to cooperate with your ex after the divorce."? Thank you so much for your helpful videos.
I think counseling is so valuable and is a great litmus test for determining whether certain behaviors are toxic. It helps provide me with an objective opinion and guidance. I really also love listening to your channel because you're an experienced professional who explains complex topics in a way that is easy to understand. Thank you!
The changes one makes in an established, consistent daily routine seem the most challenging...just look at addiction...which seems representative of an internalized toxic relationship. Some people gravitate toward such relationships and seem to experience themselves and others as both victim and victimizer...It's hard to untangle the 2: within the self and outside of it. This really conjured deep thought. Thanks.
Leaving is not always the best option - especially when there is a child or children involved. Thank you for this video, Dr. Grande.
After almost 6 years with an narc, i somehow enjoy my single life. 🤔
Amen! Me too! I feel so free now! ❤️❤️❤️😁
My sister always said she could tell when I was in an unhappy (bad) relationship when I started complaining about him all the time. It may sound kind of funny but how we speak about the person or the relationship is a huge reflection of how we’re feeling.
There is a narccisist everywhere!
Like the part, 'change in small habits influence the relationship in a positive way than grand gestures'!
Geo Thampan what do you mean ?
@@Filekeepers There is never a toxic relationship discussion without talking about a narccisist. They are diabolically potent.
Geo Thampan, maybe so. But still, just because they think they are God doesn’t mean we have to. Consider reality; don’t believe the hype!
Thank you, Dr. Grande, for another great video. My marriage has many elements of toxicity. All of the ones you mentioned and some others, too. However, I am so gratified to hear you express optimism that the toxicity can be ameliorated by making small changes in routines and habits. I love my husband and knew that he was quite damaged when we married. I'm also a survivor of an abusive childhood. I've always known that no marriage of which I am a part, would ever be perfect. Year by year, my husband and I make small improvements upward from our nadir, with the belief that the actions of love can make us better than we were in the beginning.
My ex pretty much checked all of those, i'm not perfect either, but damn, it's so like this. Being unable to discuss my emotions especially and all the literal psycho screaming and antagonism and the unending fighting when i was ready to just let it go and even say i'm wrong even though i'm not. She almost destroyed me as a person. But i'm recovering now, on my own. It's crazy how quickly my life got better once she was out of the picture.
i was once in a relationship feeling constant anxiety and doubt about my perceptions all the time, and couldn't understand what's wrong. Then he said "no one will ever love you the way i do" and "where are you going to go? you can't be without me". I left. Felt relief bigger than ever in my life.
Just wanted to go to bed - it’s midnight here in Europe - new video from Dr. Grande and had to watch it! 😂👍
I hope it was worth staying up for :)
Another UK fan listening too... I find Dr Grandes videos are compulsive listening whatever the hour!
Thank you, from Italy!😀
Big gratitude for your excellent scientific work. It's so helpful to me, especially this topic on toxic relationship. Greetings from Germany 🇩🇪💞
I can relate, thinking about this video content, had me meet the morning sun! Now, I run a bath & re read "the seven selfs"
Dr Grande you have changed my life! I was raised in a narcissistic family and ended up with a narcissistic partner.. thank you for helping me weed my way through this
Thank you! Wow, incredible. This was nearly word for word what it was like with my vulnerable narcissistic ex. And ya, grand gestures mean nothing! Little things, he would never change. And he would resent me for even asking for small things. But he thought that throwing a birthday party would make up for all shit in the past. He deliberately took me bowling for my bday, even though every single birthday of mine prior I chose to go to karaoke, and it was the obvious choice. Even my friends all said to him, "are you sure? Maybe you should take her to karaoke." He consistently told them all, no, and when I asked out of curiosity later why we didnt go go karaoke, he flipped out at me. "You're so ungrateful! I did so much for you and you don't even appreciate it! I'm never throwing you another bday party!" He even lied to me and tried to blame my friends, saying THEY didnt want to go to karaoke. When I asked them all what happened, they all said the exact same story. He told them about the party at a time I wasnt there and they were all in the same room together and they all said to me individually, "we told him he should plan to go go karaoke but he said he wanted to go bowling for a change." When I told him I asked all my friends and they all have the same story, you're the only one with a different one, he then shunned all of my friends for a long time and made them feel scared to come and visit me in my home because of his coldness. He always got mad at me for maintaining my friendships with them. And now, after the break up, he is STILL bringing up the birthday from over a year ago now, saying, " I knew ever since then that I didnt wanna be with you, you ungrateful bitch." Even though it was after my birthday that he wouldnt stop nagging to move into my place, and after moving in that he lost his job, and never attempted to find a new one, and started cheating on me with ppl on plenty of fish. Like, WOW. Can you say narcissist much?? He fits the description to a T. Thanks Dr. Grande, for yet another amazingly accurate breakdown!
I played this for my husband. Because it made me so happy. This video has shown me how much we've grown.
Dr. Grande, listening to your videos is very real within my life, having grown up in Middle East Narcissism and Codependency are two pillars of the environment. Sadly most men grow up in narcissism and most women grow up codependent, at times with age women turn slightly Narcisstic with their daughter or son In laws occasionally. Some cultures intentionally produce such ways it seems. I would love to see more cross cultural coverage on these topics. Thank you and thank you for your work, wisdom and sharing
Spot on this is my Partner to a T. He's a Narcissist. I've learnt how to deal with him and no longer get upset. I give him his own medicine. He does all the things you've mentioned. I'm enjoying my life with my Son and my Furkid so I'm no longer a victim. He's 68 out of shape and drinks alot. He's a good provider. No need to leave. Love your videos ❤
I remember in grad school we had to write a bio psychosocial assessment of Aileen
Wuornos. It was great. I love how Dr Grande uses infamous cases to discuss traits, characteristics and indicators of different mental health illnesses/diagnosis
Vera BLEXIT ASAP,Your lovely smile 😊 can make the news!!
@@christianpulisic7784 You're beautiful for saying that! Thank u!🤗
@@verablexitasap858 Which country are you from?
@@christianpulisic7784 US
spot on. Narcissism is such an overused word by many people who do not understand the basic nature of the beast of the cluster of behaviors. But toxic is clear, that the relationship is harmful, without blaming or labelling- the relationship is poisonous. We'd be stupid to take poison so why would we continue to take daily doses of poison in a relationship? If you are in this situation where counseling has failed to make quick meaningful changes to reduce toxicity, calmly cut bait and move away from the toxic relationship. It's simple, yet it's hard but well worth it.
Thank you Dr. Grande, couldn't be a more accurate list!
Thank you Dr Grande, or conveying beautifully your science and experience in a very detailed way.. A bird's eye view, at the same tlme... your optimistic outlook is not for people who have decided to leave, but for those who are looking out for ways to repair and stay.
I am 70 years old, mother of two grown-up men, married for 42 years, and have lived through enough experience to know exactly what you are talking about so beautifully. Thank you so much. I have been following you for the last one year, extensively. Looking on for all of your future conferences.
Another sign: you are not the same person you were before the relationship. Psychopaths can turn a confident, strong, kind, normal person into a nervous white mouse - afraid of its own tail. This happened to my friend and I have tried to help him for over 1 year to leave but the gaslighting is too strong. I told him to get professional help because he is too brainwashed. All 7 signs present.
You lose who you are, your friend is lucky to have you.
This is me im not me anymore since i married. I dont know if I genuinely feel guilty cause i know i wasnt the best husband or she guilts trips me and manipulates me? I feel lost.
Every single thing he described, I lived through. During the split, wasn't sure I'd ever actually be free of him completely or make it out alive. Scariest thing I've ever been through. After three years, I still have a physical reaction if I see him out or driving down the road
When you're finally out of the toxic relationship with a narcissist, how do you emotionally detach?
Absolutely don't have contact with them (or as little as possible) and just start trying to have a life again. Watch the shows you wanted to watch on t.v. eat the dinners you like, that you couldn't have. Read the books, and go to the places that you wanted to go, but couldn't. Get some counseling or therapy. And enjoy being in a space by yourself that someone isn't always screwing with you, or deliberately making every problem worse. Nobody hiding or destroying your stuff, spending all your money or keeping money from you. Enjoy your privacy. Enjoy being able to sleep at night without someone keeping you up. Nobody going through your things. Just enjoy the peace and quiet, and get some counseling if you can.
No contact is the only way....stop caring
No contact. Therapy. Avoid new relationships as long as you are not used to just being close to yourself. Build up self respect first, you‘ll always only get as much respect from others as you are able to respect yourself. As long as you are vulnerable, people will notice and some will abuse the vulnerability to mark the healer and put a foot in the door. People who have gone into a relationship with a narcissist tend to find another narcissist, as long as they don‘t work on reprogramming, mostly there‘s low self-esteem, anxious-avoidant, or dependent personality traits/disorders in partners of narcissists. It‘s likethe lid to a pan
I mean the behaviour of your narcissistic partner/husband should be enough for you to detach yourself emotionally! Personally, people behaviour and disrespect disgusted me a lot so whatever "feeling" I had for him/them? All gone.
Yes! Emotional detachment most difficult, because it's growing under your skin!
I really like that you are practical snd realistic in terms of your advice. You aknowledge that leaving is not always an option and sympathize with that.
All of this was in my marriage. I used to get in our bed at night and start to shake, the shakes were so deep almost like I was going into shock. It didn’t happen every night but pretty often. Once we were divorced and I had my own space I noticed I didn’t shake anymore.
l was in this kind of relationship, left it , filed for Divorce, got 6 yrs of Therapy to get over the hurt and l have stayed single since and probably will be the rest of my life because l never want to experience that again in my life. lt was killing my spirit slowly and l am so much happier now.
The silent treatment! Ohhhhh...I'm chatty so this is definitely passive aggressive to me. No good.
Thank you doctor. Good guidelines. 😊👍🌹
Silent treatment is a emotional abusive behavior. Never tolerate it. Move on.
@@lolavelmar2996 Not for the first hour I'm awake.
Please shut the fuck up. It's probably narcissistic of me, but has helped my relationship a lot. Or maybe it's not healthy but cut down the exhausting fighting a lot
I’m so glad people are finally realizing how harmful this is. Of course they always say it’s to avoid arguments or “drama”... even though they do it when there’s no such things or they are creating the issue
Great video, doc. To me, it's pretty simple. In relationship, one person is there for another, and vice versa. If one person is for themselves using another, and another is in constant fixer and pleaser, attempting to comprehend the dynamics at the same time and picking little bits and pieces of self validation from another (learning to live with less), I call it toxic.
The content of this video is awesome and spot on. I feel validated. You're an awesome you tuber x
Absolutely agree about changing smaller habits! Grand gestures in my opinion are to impress others outside of the relationship.
It occurred to me to ask while watching, but have you ever heard of anyone being toxic to one's own self?
@Thegodsunwantedchild
Theres an old relationship saying I use to hear: "I can do bad on my own, I dont need no help". So yes, people I think who contribute to toxic relationships are toxic to themselves. Toxicity is festering inside and erupts eventually. It has to have an affect on themselves too. Also like the expression, " I'm my own worse enemy".
But I'm no expert here...lets see what the doc has to say!
I believe I'm toxic to myself because I selfsabatoge. It's very harmful and I realize it's a defense mechanism because I feel no control over my life due to toxic people. It's just so overwhelming everyday dealing with these people so I chainsmokers and tend to overdo everything because I can't control anything. I'm working on it😁
@@jackiejames3898
It's a very S L O W suicide, honey. Don't do it. Just stop and get help.
"It's the little things we change in our daily life that actually make the difference " for me that's true. I stumbled upon a way of thinking that has literally brought me out of darkness...I started picturing myself as a character in a book...what would I ,as the reader, desperately want (protagonist) me to do? Then I would make small adjustments to get in line with that path. Changing my response to entitled, toxic behaviours inevitably changed the dynamic. Time will tell if the changes in my husband (and me) are enduring!
Thank you for your counter narrative to this plethora of bs about narcissists on you tube! You are a refreshing voice of reason...and funny! You summed it up in the Michael Jackson video saying "I don't like boring things"
The funniest things are true.
I appreciate you covering really heavy things, your sense of humor for me is bang on. brings relief.
A
I appreciate your straight forward approach to explaining relationship dynamics. Two thumbs up! Very helpful to me , thank you.
Thank you for those kind words :)
Good one Dr. G. Usually the advice is just leave so I'm glad you touched on that. Also the physical reaction when they leave or come home... right on! Finally your optimism was refreshing and gave me a bit of hope. Thank you Sir.