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We Got SCAMMED - How To Make Sure You Don't!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 พ.ย. 2023
- You've found yourself a bargain on some new bike components, but when it arrives you realise it's a fake! If fake components and bikes are as much of a problem as it seems, what are the genuine brands doing to protect themselves and help us as consumers? Alex has been researching the world of scamming in cycling.
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Have you ever been scammed when buying a bike or parts? ⚙
I was gobsmacked when Alex appeared to leave the LBS with his fake chain still fitted! surely having just had that discussion with the expert!……I would have expected you to have a genuine chain fitted and return the fake to the supplier for a refund? not a good example to set Alex. interesting video though thanks.
I bought a "Dura-Ace" chain off of Amazon. it took FOREVER to get the gears to stop clunking around. Finally fit it what I thought was appropriately. Chain lasted for less than a month before it snapped. I reached back out to the seller on Amazon and they sent me a new one, which did not even fit around the rear derailleur jockey wheels. I spent HOURS trying to figure out what was wrong with me and my mechanical ineptitude, but it was not me, it was the chain. I told the seller the chain did not fit and sent them pictures of the improper link spacing, to which their response was "Shimano chains are produced in many different locations so there's bound to be some discrepancies in the manufacturing process." TOTAL GARBAGE. I knew at that point it was counterfeit goods. I wouldn't leave them alone until they refunded my money. Then I bought the same chain off a legit online bike shop, and spent only 10 minutes fitting it before the bike worked normally. Lwovechain was the name of the Amazon seller if anyone ever comes across them. It's crazy how similar they can make the packaging though. If you are only holding the counterfeit box, you wouldn't know any different, but once you put the counterfeit next to the real Shimano box, the subtle details become obvious. I wish people used their 'talents' for much more honest and good things in the world, and we would all be better for it.
I bought a Shimano rear mech which turned out to be fake. Couldn’t get it to shift properly either. Replaced with a genuine part and the difference was night and day
@@Uppercottage2 Exactly! I had the same thought... when Alex was wrapping up he could have said "so can I get real chain to replace my fake one please" - supporting his LBS!
I ordered a Rotor ceramic bearing set and received a pair of fake Ray Ban sunglasses
As long as there is no legislation that makes market places like Amazon liable for what is sold over them, this will continue.
I never buy drive-train components from Amazon. Only bike retailers. I was buying cheap brake pads on Amazon but managed to find some official ones cheaper than RRP elsewhere and the official ones are so much better
@@manoz6194 Same here. Amazon with its 99999 chinese CAPSLOCKBRANDS annoys me. But a lot of people don‘t even look anywhere else.
Where do you even begin with this issue... Buy local! who needs to have one day turn around on purchasing a chain? Product liability, Research and development- these cost capital. The real investigation is of Amazon- they do not vette anything they sell. If you have to buy online, stick to products that have no local source from reputable sellers! I worked in shops for 35 yrs- I have seen this issue explode with internet sales. You try contacting most of these Amazon sellers and there is a firewall after they,ve got your money. You never get to speak to anyone. No sympathy for a GCN presenter who does this. Support your local bike shop! Thank you
The law’s fine as it is. The seller / buyer are the ones with the commercial contract, not the middleman (Amazon). We have legally enforceable consumer rights. As consumers, it’s up to us to do our due diligence. If it looks too good to be true..
This video would be a million times more informative if you drove the original and fake chains for 500 km and compared the increase in their lengths.
They don’t increase in length. The pins wear down so the distance between their circumference increases.
Chain stretch is a myth.
@@jasonjohnson9072 Chain stretching is a change in the distance between the pins due to their wear. No one believes that this is literally tensile deformation of the metal.
So, effectively the chain length does increase (chain pitch) due to wear…
Or at least ride them in the wet. Fake chains do rust instantly when letting the wet bike stay outside over night.
I agree, you cant feel the consequences of fake chain on shorter rides. They work like the original but the durability over time of use should tell you theyre shit
Had one of those fake Shimano chain, seemed good at first, but it lasted less than 1000km.
A bit ironic that you have used the Shimano crankset recall as a positive example. After nearly a decade of dragging their feet, many consumers calling for it and an unknown number of injuries.
2 injuries. And if it happened that your crank cracked, you got new under warranty either way. So I don’t see a problem/difference to before and now. Also, it’s almost a negligible number of cranks. SRAM and Campa have much higher % of bad QC and faulty designs and do recalls even less often than Shimano.
@@izi941I've There's definitely tons of them out there, and tons that were binned "out of warranty" before there was any recall.
Still not what I'd choose as an example of being looked after by a manufacturer.
If I had a crank that had a known issue that could cause it to break, I'm not going to want to ride that, and potentially be the next injury on the list.
@@izi941Nope, my bike shop rejected two of my broken cranks as "wear and tear" because they said Shimano wouldn't ever warranty them. Fortunately, I chucked them in the shed so they've been replaced under the recall programme. Using this recall as an example of "good manufacturer" is definitely not the argument they think it is!
Amazon has a ton of fake merchandise on it. Regarding bikes, if I just spent $4-8k on a bike, and I can't afford $50 ish for a new chain once a year, I shouldn't be buying a $4-8k bicycle.
I’d be interested to see both chains tested for breaking strain to see if any difference.
Lots of people want to see how the new chain would last! We'll have to convince Alex to give it a go 👀
The barcode was the same because they literally scanned Shimano's packaging and changed it just enough to get by. IP has been a huge issue for years, particularly with Chinese knock-offs. It's happening in all industries. Lots of people will say they don’t care and point to the price difference as meaning the name brands are over-priced. I handle imports for a retailer and can tell you that the cost difference is due to lower grade materials, minimal QC, and no R & D for the imposters. If you don't care about that, you should consider the fact that there are child and captive labor being used in some of these factories. Part of what you're paying for with a name brand is the efforts they make to monitor their own suppliers.
Given the fact well known companies are quite happy using forced/child labour and still charging ridiculous prices, plus the fact Shimano haven't had a great time with the QC lately can you wonder why consumers are likely to still purchases off brand components?
Oh and the barcode was the same because they are likely producing chains for shimano anyway 😅
I purchased two 9 speed chains for my mountain bike at what I thought was a bargain price. Long story short, each link of the fake chain was marginally longer in pitch. Over 114 links it was nearly a whole link longer than the genuine old chain, causing a periodic skip that felt similar to a "stiff link". Needless to say they were unusable, good thing they were cheap lol
Did you try shortening the fake chain to compensate for the longer links? ⛓
@@gcntech It'd make no difference because the length of the chain isn't really the issue, the chain pitch and how it interfaces with the cogs, jockey wheels and chain rings is. The difference was so subtle I couldn't get it to repeat on the work stand, it only "skipped" under load when riding. Very frustrating and difficult to diagnose. It wasn't until I hung both chains from a nail that the length/pitch discrepancy became apparent. A new (genuine) Deore spec chain from the local bike shop fixed the problem.
I think the one thing that premium brands could do to combat both fake and counterfeit products would be just perform better - especially in after sales and product safety. Shimano here have really dropped the ball with the ongoing debacle of crank failures that has spanned more than a decade - and in my view still isn't really resolved to a standard that protects Shimano's reputation.
It would be better they didn’t do the recall. They just damaged their reputation for really a very small number of products affected. You’d never see Sram recalling 50% of SX&NX RDs, and 10% of AXS stuff, or 10-15% of Campas STIs
@@izi941 They should've detected the issue and recalled the cranks in the first year, not a decade later. That would've solved the issue.
Absolutely nothing wrong with KMC chains, during the 90s I would fit sedis chains on my MTB and road bike and worked brilliantly 😊
KMC is a reputable alternative brand, and they can stand on their own name. A lot of people and shops, bike brands actually use them, OEM and aftermarket. I even use them on my own bike.
KMC actually IS the manufacturer of Shimano's entry-level chains.
KMC makes great chains, but there are a lot of counterfeit KMC chains around. I have ended up with a couple of fakes from Amazon and eBay. The fakes worked ok, but not as durable as authentic KMC chains.
I was about to say the same thing. Have been using KMC chains without any issues. Problem is, there are people probably taking them out of their original packages and placing them into Shimano-like ones to fool people.
My father bought a counterfeit Honda timing belt for his truck off Amazon. Three months later it snapped, cost him $3000 to replace the engine. Lesson learned!
Fake but still bicycle chain when you order it in Turkey you get cucumber in the box.
Is it a genuine cucumber though?
Have you tried ordering a cucumber in a box to see what arrives?
@@space.youtube I bet I would get anything other than cucumber. İf you order iPhone usually you find aubergine, Android end up with cucumber.
Outstanding job, *Chargebacktools* I'm so glad you're out there battling these vile con artists. We must take every precaution to protect the general people and the elderly from these vile con artists!!Bravo to YOU! You ought to be awarded the Nobel Prize for protecting us. Big up, brother
I fell for a counterfeit once… Ultegra road pedals that in hindsight were fakes. They fell apart pretty quick, leaving me stranded during a big day out! Lesson learned!!
I purchase a lot of stuff from Amazon, but I was weary about the Shimano road cleats from Amazon base on the reviews, instead I purchased mine from Performancebike.
if you do not snap the chain right away, what happens is that when you go to do your first service after installing the chain you will find out that the chain has stretched to the point that now you need to replace the entire drivetrain.
As well as cycling for the last 40 years, I also spent that many years as a graphic designer. I spot scams immediately when the branding is almost identical to the real thing. Any inconsistencies in typefaces (fonts) - as in this case, stand out like a sore thumb to my eyes.
Ah yes, the CN-HC701-11, which obviously resolves to Chain, HyperClyde series 701, 11 speed.
I can't imagine how difficult it would be to choose a role in the fight against these swindlers.
The past must not be forgotten!! Regards to the *Chargebacktools* team for taking on this responsibility and fighting these con artists
I did purchase an Ultegra 11 speed groupset, (the whole group😮💨) from an unknown website who was selling on e-bay. It all looks like the real deal, but on closer inspection you could tell something was not right. It was the chain that was the dead give away, the pins were loose, the markings on plates were off, and all the parts were not quite "finished". The brake pads in the calipers did also not fit well, lots of play. I had just bought a Trek Emonda frameset (from Trek), and I was having trouble finding a group, so when I seen this on e bay and there was only 2 groups left, I figured I better jump on it, and was proud of finding such a deal, hmmmmm. I did not take me too long to make a decision not to build up the bike with this. It was the thought of going down a hill at 70ish Km/hr, and having questionable brakes from an unknown source...... no thanks! So that box of "parts" is in my basement and I did go down to my local shop and purchased a real Shimano 105 Di2 group. I put that on the bike and I'm soooo happy with that groupset. Expensive lesson. Good to see this vid on this issue, it will no doubt save another person from these scammers.
How much of that Ultegra is fake? Which Ultegra 11-speed is this? 6800 or R8000?
First clue it was fake: unknown website selling on eBay! What did you expect
Speaking of accountability, the recent crank fiasco has shown the counterfeit items are not necessarily worse than the original manufacturer ones. I do not agree they are standing by their cranks. Also, a broken crank can be as dangerous as a broken chain.
Yeah, fully agree. But Shimano sponsors GCN, so of course they're bend over...
If you spend 25 euros for a chain, and get 25% the life of the real Shimano chain, what did you do? Also if you run the fake garbage to the normal life of a Ultegra/Dura Ace chain, you have now really helped your drivetrain wear out. All around its more than just safety...
That is definitely another fear with the fake chains.... with different tolerances the wear of chainrings and cassette would be accelerated.
When my crank breaks in half, I want to make sure it's a real Shimano crank.
Well, sadly when your crank breaks in half, it is almost certainly a genuine Shimano! ;-)
Painful but true. You have to watch out. Also got a couple of fakes once. Internet purchase. Got my money back and reported seller. Tip: One hallmark of fake Shimano chains is if the quick-links are packaged together with the chain. Shimano has them packed separately. Packaging is sometimes telling, but some fakes even have the QR code printed.
Ah yes, I caught the same kind of counterfeit Shimano chain too when I was about to replace that customer's chain (it's his). When I asked for the price he bought it at, it's more than three times lower than the genuine's retail pricing, as expected.
When I told him about this, where I also told him we have the genuine counterpart in-store, he told me to install the one he got first, but I did make myself very clear to him before I even opened the package that should the chain break under normal use, he CANNOT hold me responsible.
I've already warned him, so should anything bad happen to the chain, it's on him. I really want to refuse working on counterfeits completely.
Without context, this may sound elitist of me, but I'm doing this for safety and liability reasons. If let's say a counterfeit frame fails catastrophically mid-ride under normal riding conditions and I happen to be the last person to work on it (where I did nothing out-of-the-ordinary), who will the owner blame? Obviously me, without hesitation, simply just because I was the last person to work on it.
I have no problems with people setting an upper budget limit, but I have a problem with those whose lower budget limit is practically an abyss.
The manufacturer didn't counterfeit the chain. Shimano isn't written on the box. It's the seller that's being deceptive.
Not even the seller, the screenshot of amazon didn't show the seller advertising it as Shimano.
They did counterfeit, the barcode comes up as the Shimano chain @7:20
Doesn't matter if they're trying to squeak by, by avoiding trademarks, etc, which they could more easily get nailed for, they're still trying to fool people into thinking it's something that it isn't. Just because they're not going to fool people who are knowledgeable, and careful, doesn't mean they're not still garbage people trying to mislead.
Did you miss "Shimano" printed 116 times on the chain? 😅
@@meibing4912 So could it be grey market. Did it come from Shimano.
I got a fake chain and rode it. 800 miles it was beyond spec.
I just got scammed a few days ago and I feel like such a fool for not seeing the red flags. I just try not think I'm that gullible when it happens to everyone it's just the scammers are getting more clever these days.
4:55 I hope Justin was using a genuine GCN mug.
This has been going on for over 10 years and will never stop if the scumbags think they can make some money!
my worst experience with fake bicycle goods was the purchase of 8 pre-packaged continental bicycle tubes. They punctured way too easily. Fortunately they did not generally make it past the first fill up with air while the bike was still on the stand.
The photo of the box in the Amazon listing used "HG" part numbers and also the Ultegra and Deore XT group names. The actual box he received was different. Tell Amazon the product was not as depicted and demand a refund.
Yes I bought one of these by mistake during COVID. I opened the box. The chain had not quite the right look to it. I got a magnifying glass and realized that it said "shimino" on the side. The pin fit was to lose. The heat treatment felt awful soft. It might have been okay to get to the grocery store, but I wouldn't want to ride up any hills on it. I took it as a learning lesson and will only buy chains from local bike shops who I know get proper authentic parts.
Recently had to KNC chain failures. Both cracked at the rivet and one of the them came apart entirely on the road. I contacted KNC and they asked to see a photo of the packaging which I had fortunately saved and they replied within hours that they were both counterfeit. They also explained they do not sell their products on eBay or Amazon(mine were purchased on eBay) Don't make the same mistake, buy from an authorized dealer!
I would not call that a fake chain, it's an obvious knockoff. They never call it a shimano chain despite the blatant copy of the packaging. any knowledgeable consumer would have no problem avoiding that but the problem is the people you would buy something based on a thumbnail and the price without reading the details.
So the main points are:
- You don't know if you can trust online sellers.
-You dont know if you can trust bike shops.
- The counterfeit chain was half the price of a genuine product and appeared to work perfectly.
!?
this is more prevalent in south east asia where 90% of bike shops carry the fake stuff
@@trailfork7815 Fake products make sense in most countries. The monthly income of a worker in South East Asia - for example in Indonesia - is only 500 dollars (!). They cannot afford the original products. Therefore it's ok that there are fake products that poor people can buy. Like in the days when people still bought cds there were only illegal copies in most countries outside Europe and North America because people didn't want to spend the income of one (1) working day to buy a cd? Nor would you.
@@svenlima cheaper brands exist for a reason
@@svenlimanah, counterfeit products are 100% trash, the producer has no incentive whatsoever to build the stuff with quality, because not his name/brand will get tarnished, but the counterfeit one.
On the other hand, if a producer puts at least his own brand/name on the stuff he produces, you can find some smarting deals, if you get lucky.
@@svenlima I mean, it isn't a great argument since there are many other good manufacturers of other good non counterfeit products.
In the context of chains, there are companies like YBN and SUMC making high-mid quality chains for similar prices to counterfeit Shimano chains.
Counterfeits mostly serve to take advantage of the brand name and recognition.
You didn't get scammed, you bought off brand rubbish.
They didn't say it was shimano.
It's trying hard to appear like Shimano at a glance. Anyone rushing through their online shopping could buy it by accident, and that's by design.
@@erich8258There is a reason why it’s half the price.
I got a fake chain that looked completely legit. The packaging was a 100% copy, and only some elements of the link slightly different. The reason to start checking was that the new chain measured too long right away. But as I rode first 30 km before checking, didn’t notice anything different, shifted okay.
This is more a trade dress issue than counterfeit. Sloppy terminology.
Also, measuring the length of 5-6 links and compare to Shimano spec would have been more definitive for new condition, then riding a new original and aftermarket for 500 miles and comparing stretch.
I bought 2 ‘Shimano’ chains off eBay a couple of years ago. They were being posted from Belgium and weren’t massively cheaper than the average price online so that’s why I assumed they were genuine. They looked the real deal when they arrived so I put one on my bike. While racing a few weeks later my chain snapped when I went to put a fair level of torque down. Stupidly I replaced it with the 2nd chain I bought and 3 weeks later it snapped also, again just when I put a fair level of torque down at the bottom of a short hill. I learnt the hard way! Definitely will always now pay the full price to know I’m getting the genuine product.
This is really interesting as I was helping someone fix their bike yesterday, new cassette and chain. I thought it was odd that the quick link with the chain seemed really cheap and not of the type Shimano would use. Now I suspect it's a fake, it was off the internet.
Shimano uses joining pins, and not quick links, so AFAIK, if you got a shimano chain and it shipped with a quick link, it's fake.
@nwimpney That's the conclusion I've come to. Now I want to go and find the packing in the bin see how good a fake it is.
@@irfuel Apparently they can be either way with 11 speed. I stand corrected.
When I've bought 10 speed chains, they always came with a pin.
@@nwimpney Correct, Shimano do not offer quick links for 10-speed chain (or 9-speed). But they're available for 7/8, 11, and 12. Actually with 12 there are no pins any more.
Wow, to all the commenters saying this isn't a counterfeit:
How close does it have to be before it's a fake. It doesn't have to say SHlMANO for the intent to be clear. It's made to mislead the buyer into thinking it's the brand name it's imitating. That's still a counterfeit in my eyes, even if it's more obvious to someone who knows what they're looking for.
Imagine there are a few scoundrels who would buy a new chain, clean up the old chain and put it back in the package and send it back for a refund.
Spotting a fake when it is in your hand is a world easier than spotting one online. That's the lesson I want to learn.
What also affects local bike shops is the often inflated prices we as consumers are expected to pay for "high end" cycling products.
The classic comparison of the "KTM motorbike vs this Specialized e-bike" scenario, comes to mind.
I purchased half a dozen Shimano "quick-link" master links from a large, online, reputable seller. Packaging was absolutely identical to Shimano.
The first one I installed just didn't quite "feel" correct when snapping into the lock position. Inspected them under a microscope and compared to a "known good" Shimano master link. They had subtle, but consistent differences from the genuine Shimano parts I used for comparison.
I just tossed them all in the rubbish bin.
There's no actual notch, right?
I don't trust Amazon for important parts anymore. I bought some Shimano 600 pedals. (2-bolt SPD for road touring). They were a bargain - $83 compared to $100 MSRP. They lasted just long enough for the counterfeiter to close his "shop" and hit the road. Looked legit, felt odd ... and bent under pressure at the worst time on a hill.
Justin looked like he was enjoying his lunch break when you just sat down and started asking questions lol
Kmc and ybn chains work fine
There's fake KMC and YBN too.
Maybe if these companies didn't take the piss so much overpricing in the cycling industry people wouldn't buy fake stuff.£40 for a chain.😂
How to avoid counterfeit products? Buy from your local bike shop. They charge a fair price (the RRP), you won't be scammed, and you receive quality after-sales service. And you are supporting your own community and economy. Simple!
I'd like to get a spare E-Bike battery for my eMTB. Partly for longer days out on the trails, but also to lengthen the overall life of the bike by alternating them. Did some research, and there is a lot of fake E-bike batteries out there. Either reconditioned units with cheap replacement cells, or complete fakes without the battery maintenance boards. In either case both are an absolute fire risk. It has given me severe trust issues lol. I have seen the fakes and they are indistinguishable, sold as new, in the same box, sealed, same labels.
I'd buy from a retailer I trust, but they don't seem to stock the one I need. Governments need to do more to stop the counterfeits, sometimes it is harmless, but if it can burn your house down you really want some way of telling the difference.
Counterfeiting sucks, but it's also not helpful when manufacturers try and control distribution and pricing. Chain reaction doesn't sell Shimano across the pond anymore.
I don't feel a huge desire to support my LBS, because they generally don't seem to cater to the kind of person I am.
They're great for the kind of person who comes in and says "my gears are broken, can you fix them", but not for the kinda person who is 100% DIY.
They almost never have what I need, and will order it for me, but it's going to take just as long as ordering online, at twice the price.
The absence of "Shamnno" on the Amazon listing does shift some responsibility to the purchaser. However, it's worth noting that many bike chains, regardless of brand, often originate from a limited number of manufacturers. In the realm of "knock-offs," these chains are typically produced for major brands but may not have met the stringent quality control standards, leading to resale under a different name. In essence, the price difference often reflects the brand name and warranty, as the specifications on knock-offs can sometimes be comparable. Safety remains crucial, but occasionally, the specs on these alternatives may align with the desired standards.
I was duped for a fake chain and found the wear was super quick, within months it was worse than the 2 year old chain it replaced!
I cannot fathom how challenging it would be to choose a role in the struggle against these fraudsters.
The past must not be ignored! Regards to the *Chargebacktools* team for assuming this responsibility and combating these fraudsters.
Fake spd cleats almost destroyed my carbon cycling shoes… only buy bike parts from bike shops
Ended up with counterfeit SPD MTB cleats a couple years ago. Sat in my toolbox as spares for a while and then installed them about a month before a big gravel race. Worked fine for a while, but then they pulled out of my pedals on a course pre-ride. It was on an out-of-the-saddle climb and I almost ate it hard. Turns out the cleats were made of ALUMINUM and had worn very thin. Thankfully I only had some minor, ummm, "torso" pain and was able to secure a pair of genuine cleats before the race the next day.
I have intentionally purchased a fake Shimano 11 speed chain for testing. Performance wise, it has noticeable higher resistance and easier to rust after a few wash. The lifespan of the fake chain is about half of that of the real thing.
We have a counterfeit one here that a lot of us use.
It says Shimano on it, has all the codes, same weight and lasts about as long as the real one.
Just at 60% the price.
Don't know who makes it but it's so good that the mechanics at the shop just told me to get it whenever they were out of stock
I reckon it's very much hit and miss, and if you're lucky you can get a really good deal.
@@cyclingSausage oh this one's reliable, I've used 3 already, this third one has been here for longer than the original chain lol. We believe it's a company who actually does manufacture for Shimano, an OEM or something so they have the boxes and all, their XT chain is just $20 cheaper for some reason. The actual ones are 50+.
I think it's sleazy when companies copy the look of another product's packaging and design, but I would not assume that a genuine Shimano chain is better than an aftermarket one. It's hard to make a genuine real-world comparison, as a gritty, wet ride early on can shorten any chain's life. I wouldn't even be surprised if Shimano didn't make their own chains, but contracted them out, which could very well be the story behind a chain that was stamped Shimano on one side and KMC on the other. I've been through a lot of Shimano chains over the years and I only buy them when I can get a great price, as I've ridden other chains that last longer. I would be interested in learning how well the counterfeit chain lasts, and wouldn't be surprised at all if it worked out quite well. A Chinarello is another thing, entirely, and all bets are off when it comes to carbon.
Bought 'Shimano' chains on eBay, I broke links three times on the first 1000km then I ditched it.
On real chains I do 5000km a year with no chain snaps!
Got 500 kms and a month out of a knock off KMC chain.....utterly knackered in a month.
Got scammed on a fake chain once. I didn’t realize it till I installed the chain, it worked funny something wasn’t right it sound funny, I did some research and my chain I bought was fake is why it was shifting funny and sounded different than my other bikes with a real chain. I know the differences now and won’t be scammed again.
Always buy from OEM official retailers. In many cases you can get the same cost and shipping deals buying directly from the OEM's website, or the site the OEM refers you to. If you see a low price online that isn't mirrored on a licensed OEM retailer's website chances are the item is counterfeit.
My nephew was fooled, when I installed his fake one, I told him, your chain looks fishy, usually it is greasy but this one is oily, a few weeks later it broke right in the center of a link , as if the metal was of very poor quality .
Another video made to pay the bills. Supporting Shimano’s R&D and pro team sponsorships isn’t what I’d consider a strong argument for not buying a fake.
Yeah, the pro team sponsorships... I mean, holy crap, why the hell would I accept that as a valid reason for spending twice the price? I don't give a crap about the pros getting free bikes. In fact, that actively repels me from a company. The more they spend on the pros, the less value I'm getting for my dollar.
It actually says “Shuimao” on the packet!
Interesting that you mention accountability given Shimano's complete failure over their crank fiasco. There is no accountability irrespective of the company. I have an expensive pair of Sony ear buds trashed by a software unpdate. A Garmin scale that has never worked, and a Garmin watch also trashed by a software update.
Sad truth, I can add a Trek frame warranty to the list: manufacturing defects that aren't big enough to cause the frame to break are "in tolerance" and not taken care of.
I got a fake HG53 9spd chain a while back, so I can confirm it happens with lower end chains as well. It worked fine for a couple of rides but then suffered missed shifts. Close inspection revealed multiple seized and twisted links. Replaced with a genuine one from a reputable bike shop, and I was then able to compare packaging etc with similar findings to the video above. Now I only buy chains and cassettes from reputable outlets rather than ebay, Amazon or Ali. It's not worth the money you might save, even on low end gear.
Unless they tried to sell you Shimano you weren't scammed, you bought what they were advertising, which wasn't Shimano. You misled yourself.
Agreed! This not counterfeiting. It's exploiting people who click before they think.
It's still misleading and dishonest to put it in a package that looks like shimano, with a name that looks a lot like shimano at a glance, and use very similar model numbers.
They're clearly trying to fool people, and that's a scumbag thing to do.
If people want to make imitations, but which are clearly different to any buyer, that's fine, but imitating the packaging is clearly deceptive.
It sure is, but that still doesn't make it counterfeiting. Anton wasn't scammed, he just had a dumb moment. Fortunately it is not rocket science to spot product imitations on amazon. What I don't get is why Amazon. For sure everyone's got a go-to online bike parts shop! Even my LBS does. I know because he once told me to order from bike-components myself because that's what he does when I asked for something he didn't have in store.
@@danieltscharnuter4794 That's still a "scam" IMO. The intent is clearly to make that _look_ like a shimano chain to fool people who are less knowledgeable, or just not paying attention.
It's just counterfeiters making sure there's enough plausible deniability that the brands won't bother taking them to court.
The intent is still there to sell someone something when they think they're buying something else.
Caveat Emptor is supposed to be a warning to the purchaser, not a justification for ripping people off.
I got a fake 10 speed Shimano chain on ebay. Immediate red flags. Chain super flexy. Packed in light oil not the usual sorta sticky grease. Non Shimano link included in the same package as chain. 10 speeds dont come with links normally. And a machined back plate. Shimanos own website shows the back plate on a 10 speed has no machining. Got a refund.
I got that exact chain from Amazon by mistake because I didn't pay close enough attention this time. It broke after less than 100 miles when I stood up out of the saddle but didn't really put that much power out for me let alone compared to someone good. I have never broken a chain before.
GCN, I really do question your credibility of a trusted source of information.
The bike industry, in general, is full of trust issues. They do not take proper ownership in a timely manner of their poor design choices. Only taking action when they're up for being sued.
This video to me almost stinks of being sponsored by Shimano. How can you use Shimano as an example? Really, Shimano? They took around a decade to own up to crank issues.
The Frame OEMs are well known for having design issues, compromising on quality and design for manufacture to the point they release downright dangerous products.
Case in point is fork steerer tubes snapping due to obsession with internal routings.
Or SRAM opening up bottom bracket bearing tolerances despite bearing manufacturers stating appropriate tolerance specs.
All those sayings: if it's too good to be true, it likely isn't, and, there's no such thing as a free lunch. Buy local and develop relationships; it pays off in the long run.
Purchase a chain from Amazon definitely said Shimano and it snapped when riding up hill. Very dangerous... Shimano should do more as should Amazon to stop this. Having said that Amazon refunded me and asked me to send chain back.
i purchased 2 shimano da chains in the past from amazon. both were fake but looked real and i didnt realize it till the second one snapped prematurely. i put one on my road bike and the other on my gravel. i paid about $35 for both of them. cheaper which was a deal. both failed within 900-1000 miles. one of the links with both snapped under normal riding conditions which left me stranded. im not the strongest ridder but chains just dont do this and should practically last forever. buy your chain directly from the bike shop.
I am living in China few years ago and fake chain is nothing hahaha. There are bike shops recycling various components from old &/ stolen bikes, polish, put new serial number stickers (or laser engrave them...yes they even have those) and fit them on a new frame to sell. Also, you see many bicycle products, identical design to those big name brands we know, sold under different Chinese names. My guess is, the manufacturer/suppliers who take orders from big brands and produce extra ones to sell in China. For example, I see Wahoo indoor trainers, Specialized handles bars and saddles + etc. looks exactly the same but sold under different names.
I'm not a fan of being scammed. But understanding how China works is important. Its possible to get extremely good 'same as' products usually branded uniquely (and in many cases from the same companies who produce the high end version for the BIG brands. It is buyer beware - you may have a replacement/refund deal (and TBF many Chinese companies are pretty good in this regard), but there is no indemnity - if it fails and you're injured you're up the creek. If its from China and branded the exact same I'm dubious as from experience the quality and finish don't always align with the original (however you could be scoring over-run stock at a bargain). Though on the whole in recent years the quality of general production from China is impressive, and companies can and do make quality changes incredibly quickly. Broadly speaking there is a level of risk and its down to the buyer to assume responsibility for that risk, you have to do your research.
I bought online the same type of fake shimano chain. The two clues were the manual tick for the category and the quick link dropped with the main chain not in an individual package.
Gravel for me. The fake chain 11v lasted 800km with twice a chain link broken during a ride. I clean my transmission very often with the gravel. A standard shimano last 2000km for me.
All of the arguments against the fake chain on safety can exactly be said of the recall of the very cranks they talked about. What’ll happen to you if the crank breaks? You’re basically going to end up on the floor just like a chain
Where I'm from, if we said "Shoo-wee, Mao!" we'd probably wave our hand in front of our face and look disgusted, and it would mean Mao smelled bad.
The idea that real brand equals quality automatically is hilarious, but so is the Idea that don't brand ' generic ' gear and mark up. Firms you never heard off make equipment for brands, often many of them. They also sell the SAME equipment none branded. The difference can come not in quality but the price difference you pay for the brand label.
Thanks for explaining the difference in chains. I bought a used Cervelo P3 a couple of months ago... Just looked at the build sheet.... Chain: KMC. Someone before me replaced the chain and didn't know they got scammed. New Shimano authentic chain ordered!
KMC is a legit bike part company. There is nothing wrong with it. No one got scammed.
KMC made your new Shimano chain lol
SHUIMAO chain coupled with SHIMANG groupset are probably the best combination money can buy.
Shuimao, that well-known Japanese bike brand.
The difference is in the quality of the steel, and the manufacturing tolerances (pin insertion pressure & pin retention under load). They will wear out much more quickly than a genuine chain, even if the genuine chain is ridden hard and neglected.
These have been going around for at least 5 years: why have you only just now got off your arses to protest? & dredged Amazon to find it, not even on purpose?
Hidden shimano sponsorship I suspect.
Hats off to GCN for highlighting this issue. Seems Shimano chains are just the right combination of profit margin and sales volume that there are a lot of fakes.
Checked the XT / LX chain I found on e-bay months ago, and yes; fake. It even had "Shimano" on the box, but close comparison to another bought from a large bike retailer showed many subtle differences in chain and packaging.
Nothing wrong with a KMC chain. A KMC chain came on my Cannondale. They are less expensive than a Shimano chain, but I've not noticed any quality issues with my chain.
That said, I'd be upset to pay the Shimano price for a non-Shimano chain sold as a Shimano chain.
well, if that fake/no brand photo is indeed put on the product listing and buyer fell for it, I can only say the buyer is not careful enough. the seller just unethical probably using shimano word in the description etc. or vice versa, the photo & description is advertising genuine item then seller send obviously no brand item then it is fraud and I believe many marketplace has channel to report and claim refund for it.
Well, you miss the other side of the picture. If somebody have engineering knowledge and want to be an entrepreneur building the same characteristics chains or others components using your own brand, then Shimano came and close your business hiding in the exclusivity or something legal stuff. This always translate in little modifications on counterfeits, to prevent be sued. In real world is the customers who had guilty on feed this kind of market.
Have a look at the inside edge on the chains shimano even has a angle on the inner edge near the roller
Imagine how much easier it would be to avoid this problem if vendors like Shimano would just sell their goods via modern distribution channels that consumers actually want to use. If Shimano sold components directly on Amazon like more sensible brands, the counterfeits will still exists, but be massively overshadowed by the more expensive but reliably available genuine products. But they won't do it because it's not in their interest, and therefore preventing counterfeit goods from getting into consumers' hands really isn't in their interest in the end.
I've tried using local bike shops. They never have what I want in stock. I'm not going to call multiple locations to confirm what is on their website is really in stock, or to find out they have something in stock that they don't bother to list online, or wait weeks to order something I can get tomorrow online for less money. The world is changing. Evolve or die.
The fake chain is "probably" OK. Tolerances are nigh on same regards weight, size etc so being half price maybe worth a punt. What I've done in past and will never do again is use rip off cleats. They wear out/break and are frankly dangerous.
However, regarding the fake chain an actual long term test only way to determine quality. Also, it's hardly a massive surprise the LBS recommend buying from them! Like it or not, people will look for and buy bargains or those that appear to be especially if money is tight.
The fake chain I purchased was frightening. I wouldnt use it for 1 kilometer. Life threatening.
GCN Tech: "We Got SCAMMED"
Comment Section: "We got SRAM"
You don’t think the same thing applies to SRAM components? 😂
@@dominicbritt hahahahaaa
There is a good warning in the name. SHUI means water or liquid. MAO can mean hair, a feather or better yet, to be careless or unthinking.
#askGCNTech my question doesn't concern the chain. What is Alex drinking there? Is it lemonade or chicken broth?
Hi Alex, fake goods are far from limitted to bike stuf (wanta buy a "Rolex"?).
Buy from a safe reliable manufacturer though? Shimano? How long have they been making those dodgy cranks? More to the point how long have they known before doing something about it? (at least 2 years according to press sources). How comprehensive is their solution?
Perhaps Shimano isn't the best example of "reputable" to choose for this.
Shimano - the "General Motors of the bicycle world".
I always check the Amazon return policy before ordering.
A local bike ship near me was selling Chinese copy pro team kits and I called them out on it
Though I don't condone products being sold as something they are not, it is the industries own fault that counterfeit products are so common. With absurdly high prices for bikes and spare parts, it leaves a lot of room for counterfeiters to make profitable alternatives. Doesn't make it right though to be claiming their product is something it is not.
Never support Amazon. This is clear evidence why you shouldn’t.
I know this video is about Shimano bike chains, what's your take on "Bike Shop" brand chains? They're handled by Walmart. I have two bikes, also handled by Walmart. One, a "Roadmaster" Mountain Fury 15 speed mountain bike, lady's model, it has a step-through frame, which is handy when this old boy loads the rear rack higher than the saddle. The other bike is a "Next"PowerX, 18 speed, full-suspension , mountain bike. Both likely equipped with "Bike Shop" chains. I have a replacement chain, at the ready. It's described as a 10-24 speed bike chain, with 1/2"x3/32" 118 links. Made in China, of course. I'd like your opinion.