BLIND tasting vs. VINOUS Antonio Galloni - Do we agree on the 100-POINT-wine?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ก.ค. 2023
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I use this wine key: Laguiole en Aubrac Wine Key Ebony
I have used this glass in this Video: Gabriel StandArt
I have tasted the following wines in this Video:
2021 E. Guigal Cotes du Rhone Rose, Rhone, France - 11 US $ - 90 Points Vinous:
www.wine-searcher.com/find/e+...
2020 Arnot-Roberts Sanford & Benedict Vineyard Chardonnay, Sta Rita Hills, USA - 61 US $ - 95 Points Vinous:
www.wine-searcher.com/find/ar...
2018 Fontodi Flaccianello della Pieve Colli della Toscana Centrale IGT, Tuscany, Italy - 141 US $- 100 Points Vinous:
www.wine-searcher.com/find/fo...
2022 Ken Forrester Petit Chenin Blanc, Stellenbosch, South Africa - 13 US $ - 85 Points
www.wine-searcher.com/find/ke...
The 100 Point Scoring System (from www.robertparker.com):
96-100: An extraordinary wine of profound and complex character displaying all the attributes expected of a classic wine of its variety. Wines of this caliber are worth a special effort to find, purchase and consume.
90 - 95: An outstanding wine of exceptional complexity and character. In short, these are terrific wines.
80 - 89: A barely above average to very good wine displaying various degrees of finesse and flavor as well as character with no noticeable flaws.
70 - 79: An average wine with little distinction except that it is soundly made. In essence, a straightforward, innocuous wine.
60 - 69: A below-average wine containing noticeable deficiencies, such as excessive acidity and/or tannin, an absence of flavor or possibly dirty aromas or flavors.
50 - 59: A wine deemed to be unacceptable.
Vinous was started after Antonio Galloni left Robert Parkers Wine Advocate in 2013. Galloni was a leading wine critic for Parker covering Italy; Champagne and California and he left after Robert Parker sold a share of his publication and announced his retirement.
The departure was a bit messy, and the Wine Advocate sued Galloni for breach of contract and defamation. During this time, it also was reported that Galloni was paid 300,000 US$ per year for his work - which is a handsome salary for a wine critic to say the least.
Anyways, Vinous managed to get some of the most well-known wine writers to join the company and now they have a very good team of critics including a couple of Masters of Wine. They also bought a few tech companies to add to their offering and they publish articles regularly.
They use the 100-point system when scoring wines but on the Vinous scale, 80-84 points are average while on Robert Parker.com wines below 80 are considered average.
On ratings in general Galloni writes: Of course, wine is not an exact science, but I believe there is something definitive and therefore important about deciding whether a wine receives 89 or 90 points. Other broader scales like the various 3 and 5-star systems (and their derivatives) that are out there make it too easy for a critic to avoid taking hard positions.
I looked at the Vinous scores and compared them to Parker and Suckling and first, I have to say that it was a lot more difficult to navigate Vinous for this experiment and they have some wines that have a rating between 1 and 2 stars by one of their critics David Schildknecht which was slightly confusing - but that’s beside the point.
When you look at the results you see that Vinous is between Parker and Suckling when it comes to the score distribution: Wines are less likely to receive low scores compared to Parker - given both publications rate similar and the same wines.
Two-thirds of the wines receive a score between 87 and 92 but it is the publication with the lowest chance to receive 100 points - you are three times more likely to get 100 points from robertparker.com
Interestingly if you are a winemaker and you want to receive a good score below 90 your best bet is with Parker, but Vinous is more likely to score above 90 and below 95 and is very unlikely to score above 95.
"If you want a high score, there's always Suckling" 😂🔥
LOL I felt that. I used to refer to JS scores strictly for old world (typically Italian and French) wines, but in light of recent videos, I'm questioning all of that! Konstantin always keeps it 100.
You don't get free trips to Bordeaux throwing up 88s.
I was just going to comment that!.....truuuue! 😂🤣
I think it's easy to bash Suckling but I have to call out that Konstantin gave the "100 point" wine the same rating as Suckling. I feel that wine tasters/critics are a bit biased and are ready to take points off just because Suckling gave it a certain score.
Dayum!!
Hi Konstantin, I have a video idea; Leon could identify maybe 4 or 5 different wines that all have interestingly different ratings by each Parker, Suckling and Vinous. You could taste each one (without knowing the scores from the critics) and give your own score to see which critic you agree with the most based on those samples
Great idea!
@@Ildskalli thank you 😊
Love the Idea
Hoping for more petit chenin blanc appearnaces on this channel
Right? I think this was a smart move by Leon. 😎
"Its pretty dificult to vinous give 100 points, I'm giving 97" kkkk Konstantin is the most demangind of all! Love the content as always.
What about a video with 4 wines that you gave 100 points, and explaning why so.
Don’t hate on Leon. I thought it was a nice twist to put the Chenin in again too test you for consistency 😄
After watching hundreds of wine videos on YT I'll admit I'm not only rooting for you to guess em right, but I'm absolutely fond of your honesty, even when you're not drinking blind.
And I don't think I can tell that about many critics I follow or read about.
I am subscribed to one of the famous online magazines and even there I get the feeling that some of the votes are slightly fixed, depending on the label.
Great job as always🙌
I hope petit chenin Blanc becomes the meme wine that Leon uses to troll Konstantin 😂
Konstantin, where can I find a full listing of all your wine ratings? I'd love to use them as reference when buying wine in the future. Thank you!
Highly reccomend Ken Forrester 'The FMC' Chenin Blanc, its a big step up from the petit Chenin but is the best Chenin i have ever had.... Ken is called the 'king of Chenin' for a good reason!
I haven’t come across an 100 point rose yet, but I know a pretty banging one from Ribera Del Duero, the Bendito Destino claret. Stands next to Tavel for me with amazing value for money from 90 yo vineyards.
Leon seems like he really likes Petit Chenin Blanc
I like KF Petit Chenin Blanc too 👍 Uncomplicated drinking, fits a lot of summer dishes and cost you not an arm and a leg
Thoroughly enjoy your channel, Konstantin. I haven't been able to afford a good wine for some years now but I derive satisfaction from watching someone else tasting such a wide variety of decent to incredible wines especially when that someone has so much knowledge about wines. Your format and presentation are top-notch - laid back, low key and cerebral. Thanks.
Hey Constantin, a fun idea for a future video series would be a >95 point wine from different grape varieties.
On the prompt of Grüner Veltliner: I think you should do a white wine tour of Austria, which is pretty underrepresented on this channel
We need a Leon interview. Seems like an intelligent apprentice.
I honestly love this format of video
This is a man who doesn't believe in outtakes, lol.
Not specifically Vinous per se, but have followed Neal Martin since his Robert Parker days
In my opinion clearly the best wine channel on TH-cam currently. Great job!! Before it was wineking which has lost quite a bit recently since changing the type of videos while Konstantin has been on fire 💪💥
Wow, crazy to see the Ken Forrester Petit priced at $13. Here in South Africa it sells for the equivalent of around $4. It is a super entry level Chenin Blanc here
Well … how much would it cost for you to fly it to my neighborhood wine store in the US, pay import duties and put it on the shelf? Can you do it for less than 9 bucks?
@@hoostineFL I would never imply that that would be possible. I was merely noting my amusement at the relatively high price of something we tend to consider as plonk.
@@karlrohlandt9045 I fully agree with you. And seeing how much duties increase the price, I view imported wine prices with quite a bit of scepticism. It also makes me very grateful to live in Cape Town!
@@capeofgoodwine447 oh yes, absolutely! I currently have a list of international wines that I am shopping for and between the weakness of the rand as well as duties the prices are quite ridiculous. I paid R380 for a relatively entry level Barossa Shiraz whereas we can get an outstanding bottle of local wine for that price!
And don't even get me started on the Italian and French wines...I'm going to be eating peanuts for months after making those purchases.
@@karlrohlandt9045 Right! If you're shopping for study purposes, remember that most distributors (and some boutique stores) will give you a discount if you ask nicely and maybe share the wines on social media. Also...popcorn...I lived on popcorn when I was building a flight internationals 🤣!
it would be amazing a video blind tasting some of YOUR 100 points rated wines chosen from leon :P
Leon did a great job!
Can’t wait to see Petit Chenin Blanc in the next video 😂
THE SUCKLING 100 POINT JOKE WAS SO FUNNY HAHAHAH
Your honesty and forightness about wine is quite refreshing, as some wine critics seem rather pompous or egotistical, in some cases. I don't buy wines with Galloni/Vinous scores, as I think he/they tend to mainly rate high-end or premium wines for the most part.
Also in Asia and Taiwan the main critics and wine scores come from JS, James Halliday for Aussie wines and WE, WS and Decanter, etc. Though there seems to be an increasing number of Italian wines scored by a certain Italian wine "critic" that has ridiculously high scores, ahem!
It seems with scoring it is largely objective as there is a certain range that different types of wines should "fit" into, like a 3-5 points range. But when some goes 8, 10 or more points above that range, it becomes very obtuse and confusing.
Interestingly one of the first S. African wines that I had was Ken Forrester's Old Vines, back like 10 or more years ago; it was pretty good. We had the E.Guigal CDR Rose 2012 in 2015; I remember it was pretty solid, but I felt like it lacked acidity and freshness, though for 11-15 US$ it's a pretty good deal.
RP rated two rosé champagnes with 100 points - Louis Roederer Cristal Rosé (2002 and 2008).
I'd be into your evaluation of some top-notch world roses. It's summer after all, and I love me some Tempier Bandol!
Great vid as ever
Always fun! Keep up the good work KB!
Thanks for this, and for speaking frankly about scores, not just on the video, but the series you have created. It’s refreshing to hear.
The best Rose i ever had was the Lopez de Heredia Grand Reserva Rosado from 2009. Not exactly 100 points but pretty close. Amazing but so hard to become.
I don't pay a lot of attention to scores even if I do find them helpful because the critic and I are not tasting from the same bottle. I get to taste the wine several months later, and that can really help a wine fill out and come into its own. No one should apologize for giving a different score to a critic's published score. I always emphasize that no one can drink it for you, your opinion is up to you.
My glass of choice. Good for aromatics.
Leon has too much fun messing with you and procuring these bottles at the end 😂🙌
Constantin .. Jordan Alexander valley Cab 2018 .. get to it !! 😜🤪
I really enjoy your channel and your knowledge.
Flaccianello is a wine that during blind tasting i was part of brought tears to my eyes, it was absolutly amazing and i would always give it 100 !:) absolutly love it
Great job as always! You always seem so balanced and neutreal when tasting and rating the wines. It gives a feeling of credability and honesty I really enjoy!
Here I was expecting Galloni to be in the video haha
Enjoyed 😊
Great show again.
A brilliant tasting video as always sir 🍷👍....
'if you need a high score, there's always Suckling' 😂😂
You should do an in depth video on the different crus of alto piemonte wines soon! I love your in depth regional videos
Nice video🍾 Hoping to see another video with Leon🥂
@KonstantinBaum Please do a Blind Tasting vs Neal Martin for Bordeaux and Burgundy...it may break your budget to find a 100pt NM wine but would be great to see your comparative scores
I would love to see you taste the wines that you consider to be 100 points
love the content
If I’m buying a relatively cheap wine, perhaps at an Aldi here in Florida, I really appreciate a screw cap! It’s a completely reliable way to close a bottle, and much less of a nuisance to open and especially re-seal. A cork made of spongy plastic or particles of cork scraps… maybe some purchasers think I NEED A CORKSCREW SO THIS IS BETTER WINE, but I certainly don’t.
The wines that you showcase in your videos are so extravagant in the best way possible. I love your videos.
Very nice episode
i've tasted a 100 points Rosé back in the days ...it was a White whine coming from the Romanée- Conti area, just Rosé by the color indeed...Marvelous...
Illuminating and highly enjoyable vid, thanks as always. For years I subscribed to RP’s Wine Advocate and found his writing enthralling but no longer find anyone’s scores helpful in guiding my buying or confirming my view of a wine’s quality. I’ve now had many experiences of taking 25 years or more to drink through a case and along the way there are always surprises both positive and negative. Usually no idea if it’s me or the bottles that vary and who cares? The cumulative experience is always rewarding and spurs me on to the next wine. The single most important predictor for me is who made the wine - the personality of Huet, Tempier, Chave and others shines though in the wines.
Really enjoyed this. It was clear that had to be a 2016 or 2018 Flaccianello!!!
He was trying to trick you with the same wine twice😂
The Fontodi Flaccianello Della Pieve, was one of the 3 wines that first got me interested in wine about 15 years ago. Pretty widely available in Southern California, and while the price has basically doubled over the last 10 years, the local Costco’s usually carry it at prices well below average winesearcher pricings.
Would love to see you do a wine critic blind tasting with wines Anthony Gismondi has rated. He's based out of Vancouver, BC. He's not as well known as many, but he doesn't "over-score" the wines he rates, and it would be interesting to see your scores compared to his, simply because he's a much more honest critic than most.
Hi Konstantin. Great content as always. Could you please do one of your next videos on hybrid grape varieties? Also would be interested to have your thoughts on such “natural” wines and resistant grapes. Could it replace “vinis vitifera” or at least become a defensive production in low yield vintages, etc? Thank you. Keep up the good work!
That arnot roberts Chardonnay sounds interesting! Love the Sta. Rita hills!
Hi Konstantin, which wines did you rate 100 points personally?
nice lineup ! ^_^
Very nice video. Spot on!
It is funny, after your description of wine 3, I thought "Oh, that could be a Flaccianello" (which is one of my all time favorites).
For me, not really a "Supertuscan" but rather a wine of its own kind, 100% Sangiovese based.
Unfortunately, it became an expensive wine and hard to get after Robert Parker gave 100 points to the 2016. The 2018 was the last vintage I bought (before the ratings came out) and I am still a little bit sad about this..
BTW: The "Petit" for Forrester sells in South Africa for R75 (approx. €3.75) at Checkers (a little bit similar to Aldi).
You should ask Leon to get next time one of the flagships Chenin of Ken Forrester (who really knows a lot about Chenin).
But I guess you are done with SA Chenin for a while, which is a pity...
Awesome!!!
Hi Konstantin, I really enjoy your video. May I know where can I find the average / standard divination of the wine rating from a particular critics? It’s fun to know about it.
I agree that when Galloni was reviewing Italian wines for WA, his scores were Sucklingesque, i.e. much higher than others. That may still be the case for HIS reviews of Italian wines; I'm not sure as I don't subscribe to VM. However, when VM added Stephan Tanzer and Neal Martin to the team, the overall VM scoring dropped, as those guys are touch critics. I seem to recall that Tanzer has now retired for health reasons, but Martin still provides an objectivity that may be missing elsewhere at VM. He's still my favorite critic.
I do like Tuscan Sangiovese. I have, on occasion been surprised by just how nice some cheap bottles have been; many wines that just happen to get opened plumb smack in the drinking window can really shine whereas either side's not so good, and perhaps this volatility renders them unsaleable at a higher price.. The scores were close enough in my view to render the difference entirely due to opinion. Great result Master! Cheers everyone. 🍷🌟👍
I learned back in the 90s that wine scores do not correspond with my pleasure in drinking the wines. At that time, Parker was promoting very big, rich oaky wines just as my palate was moving in a lighter direction. After a while, I know the producers I like and it doesn't really matter what the wine was rated. That said, I enjoy Neil Martin's stuff on Vinous quite a bit. I actually prefer Monica Larner at Wine Advocate more for her coverage of Italian wines than Galloni. The other reality is that I have neither the money to afford nor the time to wait for many of those 97-100 wines! Still I love watching your tasting videos. They are most entertaining since Gary Varnerychuk (?) WineTV reviews back in the day!
vinous is not a bad scorer in my opinion. In the end , after some time one can know if it will like the wine - or how would score - by knowing the rates of each critic and her or his preferences ! Great job by the way !
I always look for Vinous ratings because they usually match my taste in wines , certainly more than Suckling.
Really enjoyed watching this and the Parker one as well 👍🏻😊
So much so that I’m thinking about purchasing the Top Wine in that video to see what I think 🤔
Would love for you to give us clues about how you source wines.
I don't use Vinous and I've never seen a 100 point rose lol. I agree with your sentiments about roses - it's probably the least interesting to me in the wine world, but great for a hot summer's day for drinking without thinking.
My favourite part of these blind tastings is the fact that you justify why you don’t score higher, so many people are comfortable being tough and scoring low, but this is where your genius comes through!
I've got an interesting idea! How cool would it be to make a video with blind tasting only wine that has been previously features on the channel - and then showcase your absolute excellence, or discuss reasons of why one might assess things differently and factors that play into such assessments. It would be really fascinating I think - and you could save some time since half of the clips have all ready been filmed before ;) Best wishes
I believe you need to taste Clos du Temple rose (Gérard Bertrand) if you haven't taste it yet! And what your rating will be,maybe a 100 point one!!!?🤔🙂
Thanks for the video,always happy to see and learn from you.
That's a fun blind! It would be really fun to do a blind tasting like thay if you had five or six hundred you dont know what to do with.
I don't know either of a 100 points rosé, but I the best I had the chance to taste is Trois Moineaux Gris de Noirs Twenty Mile Bench, 100% Cabernet Franc, most surprising is that it doesn't even come from Provence, but from Niagara Falls, Canada. I strongly suggest you taste it, even do a blind tasting based on rosés could be an idea? Anyway thanks for this great video Konstantin!
Had the 2015 Flaccianello once and thought the same
Great video as always! I recently noticed on your Instagram that you visited the Loire region, more specifically Sancerre. I'm visiting Sancerre at the end of august, can you recommend a couple of wineries worth visiting?
Yes Henri Bourgeois, Claude Riffault, Fouassier for example
Flaccianello.... 😍
When you have the time to drive around Tuscany you'll find secret little cantinas who do lovely renditions of Sangiovese...
Aren't there a few 100 point Sauternes Leon should be putting in those black bags, for you to enjoy? 🎉
Hi Konstantin. Through your videos I came across Vivino and I think it's very good for people just getting into wine and also as a reference for both quality and price. However, there seem to be a lot of wines that have a very good score and go for very little money. For example, if you convert the Vivino score to Robert Parker's 100 point system, there are a lot of 90 or 89 point wines that go for less than 10 euros. Would you be interested in doing a video on 88-90 point wines found on Vivino that go for less than 10 euros? I think having the opinion of an expert would be great to really confirm if the scores are right, kind of right or just flat out wrong.
Take care and thanks for the content!!
Woohoo! Another South African wine. 🙌😎
I like blind tasting because people aren't influenced by the label etc.. That's partly why I'm wary about some critics.
As a general rule of thumb, I've just sort of started knocking three to four points off of every wine rating that I see from the big rating groups.
There's just so much to gain by overrating a wine I totally understand why it happens.
Can I make a suggestion? Could you be a bit more specific when talking about "spices" and "spiciness"? Like, mention two descriptors, or give us a bit more information ("smells of fresh herbs", "reminds me of baking spices" or "mostly pepper and liquorice" for example). For me, half the fun of watching you taste blind is making my own guesses, and I'd love to have a bit more to go on.
Thank you for taking the time to read the comments, by the way. It shows how committed you are to your channel 😎
Yes, I should do that
I hope when/if you do knock a glass or bottle over the editor keeps it in the video. I can't be alone in fearing for everything on the table when you get stirred up!
Alcoholic? Dark pink? $11? Sounds like a rosé match made in heaven for the American market.
Oh, and speaking of rosé, why not evaluate the Clos du Temple, Gérard Bertrand's "most expensive rosé in the world"? I tasted it and didn't think it was all that, but what do I know...would love to get your take on it!
Hi Konstantin. It would be fascinating to hear your thoughts on Ken Forister FMC chenin blanc and his flagship Dirty Little Secret Wine. Coincidently Ken Forister is known as Mr Chenin blanc.
It's interesting how few Australian wines come up in these videos. Are the good ones unavailable or just not worth the bother?
So it's Baum Jancis and Parker. Sort of trusted Galloni but certainly over Suckling, who sucks of late.
Wine critic's reviews tend to be inflated relative to cellar tracker reviews. I don't really consider Baum to be a wine critic, but he sometimes gives higher ratings than cellar tracker when he scores. I do believe Baum's scores are regularly closer to CT scores than other judges (I have no statistics on this). From CT the Chenin Blanc was rated 80 (1 review), the CDR Rose was rated 88 (26 reviews), the Cali Chard was rated 91(13 reviews), and the super Tuscan was rated 93 (23 reviews). So the average taster would say Baum was spot on except for the super Tuscan. I like these super Tuscans but they tend to taste more oxidized than other wines. I wonder if that is why the CT scores are lower - its matter of taste of course.
I had the 2021 Sanford and Benedict in my hand the other day, but at $58 I passed on it. There are a lot interesting offerings for less.
A bit disappointed that the Chardonnay *wasn't* from the Pfalz! Oh, well.
Chardonnay has so little character in and of itself, and is so much subject to winemaking, that it's almost arbitrary. Especially when it's masked by reduction and an amount of greenness.
I had the Flaccianello a few months ago, and I would recommend to open it a few hours in advance. I tasted it over 4 days, and days 3 and 4 were so much better than day 1.
And spealing of 100 pointa roses, I recently had s 2003 Cerasuolo by Valentini and a 1993 Viña Tondonia Rosado Gran Reserva...they were both out of scale. Some wines cannot and should not be evaluated when they enter the market, but when they reach their apogee. What do you think? And have tried any of these roses with some age?
Galloni seems often to rate close to my licking, though I mostly use his ratings for barolo and barbaresco…. Like o’keefe…. The number games is still difficult as wine is more, not binary…. Rating is a guideline and I try to use the words and have a few reviewers I use. Rating is very good for marketing and store selection jitters
VERY curious as to how KB's ratings would fare vs Neal Martin given NM's ratings for Bordeaux are the most correlated with price.
I don’t use Vinous ratings. I have found that they don’t generally line up with my taste preferences. This is particularly true of wines in the 88-92 point range. I feel these wines are generally over-rated and I subtract 3 or 4 points for Vinous bias. If there is a 92 point Vinous wine that’s low cost, it’s probably uninteresting and basic. Cheers!
Burghound Next 🥂
Hi Konstantin,
What is the universal glass you use in this video?
Thanks.
Where do you find the price for the wine you feature or were can i buy it from 😃
Great video as always !
In the description! Where to buy depends on your market , as does the price
@@KonstantinBaumMasterofWine thank you for the reply. I did mean where you bought them at the price listed?
If you are interested in discovering a very good and fresh rose wine, I suggest you try "La Tour Melas 'Idylle d'Achinos' Rose". In my opinion it's definitely superior to wines such as Whispering Angel, or the overrated Miraval. But there should be no such thing as a 100-point rose wine... :P