Chris Daw QC: Legalise drugs and close the prisons
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ค. 2024
- Chris Daw QC is a high-profile criminal barrister and author of 'Justice on Trial'. He thinks our justice system needs to be scrapped and reformed - from legalising drugs to stop sending offenders to prison.(Subscribe: bit.ly/C4_News_Subscribe)
At the end of a Channel 4 News special week when we have focused on the criminal justice system with the 'Secret Barrister', Krishnan speaks to Chris about why he wants to completely change the way we think about crime and punishment.
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Regulate the drugs market because you ain't stopping it.
Save the prisons for violent people. Take the money away from drug dealers / gangs by making every drug legal. Educate the population on why it's a bad idea to abuse all drugs including alcohol. I have been saying it for years.
Governments wont do that because they like to have control over working age men, and want as many working(and not chilling out by themselves) as possible to keep the state running.
So many of us have. It's common sense isn't it. A crazy system.
We should also legalise guns no?
Decriminalising drugs always works. Look at Portugal. Drug abuse down by 50% in 10 years!
Tax from legalised weed would help prop up NHS
I would trust nothing out of a country that legalises drugs. They will just lie about the numbers.
@@greggrimer1428 Why do you not trust them because they have legalised drugs?
@@TheSupahJaws because governments always seek to defend their decisions. From apartheid to coronavirus lockdowns to invading Iraq.
@@greggrimer1428 Portugal's drug decriminalisation has been so successful in reducing drug deaths and harm that the United Nations and World Health Organisation have called on all countries to follow suit and decriminalise. Many other countries are now moving toward that goal.
The point that gets me at the end is that this guy has no desire to be a politician or be involved in politics. This is the whole problem with society today, the capable, the rational, the intelligent don't want to be in politics and we're stuck with idiots making the most important decisions in society. Sad.
it's a godsend that freaks like this are not in politics
I totally agree - tax the drugs and make the drug dealers get ajob and pay taxes - simple.
The government refuse to listen to anyone who knows more than they do on this, including their own drugs advisory council.
Brilliant, powerfully argued, and reality-based vision for the future of crime reduction
I've always had this opinion, (since my early 20,s I'm in my 50,s now) it'd good to hear a QC saying it as well.
Completely agree with this gentleman. I work as a doctor and often we have people who have become institutionalised in the way he describes bouncing in and out of the hospital for various physical and self-inflicted problems they would most likely not have to contend with if they were afforded a hand of kindness and the opportunity of rehabilitation instead of retribution. Ill be doing my bit to champion these ideas.
criminalise war and shut down the ministry of defence and save money and life that way as well..
Governments wont do that because they like to have control over working age men, and want as many working(and not chilling out by themselves woth drugs, or even living in peace) as possible to keep the state running.
We'll just hope the Chinese never invade I suppose
Replace humans with robots, drones and use cyberwarfare
An important talk explaining essential reforms to our justice systems and ways of thinking.
I agree with this man.
Governments wont do that because they like to have control over working age men, and want as many working(and not chilling out by themselves) as possible to keep the state running.
This is fascinating - thank you C4
How dare you guys use logic and reason.
legalise cannabis free up police resources, slim down prison population. Government should regulate cannabis sold in the UK. Then use the taxes to fund NHS and such.
Governments wont do that because they like to have control over working age men, and want as many working(and not chilling out by themselves) as possible to keep the state running.
Full legalisation is the most logical policy from both a taxation and law enforcement perspective, makes you wonder what vested interests our leaders actually have, that or they lack the intelligence to do anything rational.
That was interesting. I've never heard anyone explain it this way. Says a lot as to why offenders re-offend. So many lives damaged especially the youths. I work in education and seen a few already living jail time, under the age 25 years. They possibly will roll out and roll back into prison.
Yay! Great this is coming into general conversation.
He'd make a wonderful PM as would Keir, can't wait for 2024!
Keir is the opposite of this guy.
Kier was a prosecutor, he's locked people up for taking drugs, made laws to keep cannabis illegal and now as labour leader, plans to get tougher on drugs.
He's a dinosaur.
Good on ya Chris, his twitter is great too!
Big up this man
Wise idea
For sure cannabis and mushrooms should be legalised
Beren Dempsey I’ve seen both those substances do incredible damage & conversely met a heroin addict that was a professional, successful (legitimately, legally successful) businessman who’d been using heroin for over 20 years. All drugs should be legal, what’s vital is education & truthful facts about what drugs DO! That some are addictive, some aren’t, is information that isn’t believed, because the message that “all drugs are evil & kill people” is so obviously untrue. If part of a message is a lie, ALL of the message is disbelieved. It’s not drugs that kill, its misuse of drugs that kill & do damage. Alcohol & tobacco kill more, many more, than illegal drugs do. The lies must stop. Education & truth are the key,!
No Beren, all drugs should be legal, harming yourself should not be a crime, if the drugs are legal then less harmful versions can be sold under licence and with quality controls, street drugs and the criminals that sell them and supply them would be out of a job and those that take the drugs would be able to live without fear and can be given help much more easily.
@aha Every responsible addict knows not to drive on meth .
@aha You don't get put in jail for not wearing your seat belt, also as a driver, you are not only responsible for your life but your passengers and others on the street so the law is to help protect them from you it is about saving lives. Drug laws are not about saving lives, if they wanted to save lives they would make it legal and remove the crime element where most deaths are and make it safe to take which is the cause of most overdoses or death from contaminated street drugs or sharing needles etc etc etc
@aha Also here is the kicker, if you legalise it then you provide a safe environment to use it, and you can then treat the cause of the addiction and have far fewer meth heads on the street in the first place. SO you should care because your wish to criminalise drug takers is making it more likely that one of your loved ones will be killed by one of them, not less. Look at the US, tough drug laws but a huge illegal drug trade and massive addiction problem because if it.
The first principle of imprisonments should be rehabilitation. Oh we can’t do that it’s expensive
I agree with many of the points made by Chris Daw. We need to regulate drugs and go back to the type of system that Chris says operated in the 1960's where Doctors could prescribe to what should be a very small number of people. Where I urge caution is the use of Electronic monitoring as a solution for those convicted of crime - this does not tie in with the need for compassion that Chris described. Most of the resource required should be appropriately trained professionals who can work with offenders to help them secure work where appropriate, mental health care where appropriate and the ability to contribute positively to society.
It is so refreshing to hear a rational voice vis-a-vis the ineffective criminal justice system in our country. I think I have a unique perspective because I was a British Detective for nearly 2 decades however following retirement I expatriated to a SEA country where I later found myself facing trial on mendacious charges, I was found not guilty following an exhausting 2 year trial process, however via a Govt. Interjection, dressed up as an appeal against my acquittal and in which I was not allowed to participate, I was sentenced to 9 years. I served just over 3 years overseas and 9 months in a British jail on a transfer b4 a Royal Pardon petition was granted and I was released...so I have something of a unique set of experiences and I've observed from both sides. I wholly agree with your very rational and reasoned view on the topic of the CJ system as opposed to the visceral view usually expressed by politicians and others connected to the CJ system. I've just bought your book and look forward to reading it.
I'd rather enjoy an audio book of these chaps discussing this topic. Very interesting
21:07 £50,000 p/a per prisoner. That's more than the fees for Eton.
@Albert Pike It's over 3 times your annual earnings. You earn less than a UK binman. A trainee one at that!
This guy is 1000% right.
As soon as you realise that we don't have any kind of metaphysical free will (which I think is a hangover of religious moral systems), then our criminal justice system makes no sense at all. People will behave as their genetics and past experiences determine. Stopping crime should start with avoiding the conditions and incentives that drive people to crime.
The no free will argument crashes and burns immediately, because in order for it to hold it perversely requires that you have free will. If a man that commits mass murder can't be locked up because of their lack of free will then the woman who locks him up for his crimes is also absolved because of her lack of free will.
Afterthought_btw
Responsibility and free will are different things.
aha
Maybe. But usually not.
The thing you can't do is punish as a means of retribution. Only deterrence, reform and public protection are rational justification for imprisonment. But most people are primarily driven by the desire for retribution against "bad" people.
@aha "If their criminality is down to their genes" If ... very funny!
@aha "Don't blame me, blame my genes" reminds me of the second episode of Law and Order UK.
Honestly, the system makes no sense...
Brilliant discussion. I hope the people listen and push the politicians to change the laws and reduce prison + prisoners.
So true, resolving this issue is fundamental in the survival of our society.
There's your revenue gap-filler.. just make sure the dispensaries are fully stocked with quality high CBD medicinal flowers!! :-)
Governments across the world don’t do this because they like to have control over working age men, and want as many working(and not chilling out by themselves) as possible to keep the state running.
This man for PM
@john hansberry You sound like you need a hug .
@john hansberry What truth ?! All of your comments are nothing but insults .
Where is the substance ? Do you even have a point to make ?
It's so ironic that people like you go around insulting other's intelligence .
Learn to think critically and engage in the arguments or else you're just a child having a tantrum at the grown up table .
@john hansberry Asserting that someone has proven their lack of intelligence without offering any explanation .
If only arguments could be won by calling other's stupid 🤣
Reality tends to be like what ?
You're not doing a very good job at demonstrating your intelligence .
Intelligent people tend to think about things and come up with actual arguments .
@john hansberry I see your comments around and you never have anything to add . It's all insults and baseless assertions ; Like an angry child .
We can't even tell what you're angry about because you never engage with the arguments .
I would give you a hug if I could .
Good luck , mate .
@john hansberry ' We' the people reading your comments .
Do you understand what critical reading is ? When people read your comments critically , they will be unable to find anything meaningful because you only ever make baseless assertions and insults .
I don't remember sharing any opinions , do you mean my reasoning ?
Crime is an industry, Chris. You are a part of that industry. Like charity, the real beneficiaries of the system do not want it to end.
brilliant guy though :)
gotta get rid of the banks man!
The problem that needs to be addressed is not the drugs themselves, it is the negative thought patterns that lead people to use them in the first place. These issues are ones that need to be addressed within ourselves, our families, and our communities. Not in jail. If we spent a fraction of the money that we would save by removing drug addicts from prison and put that money instead into rehabilitation centers and community revitalization programs, we'd begin to put drug dealers out of business in the only way that will ever last, by drying up their "market".
Superb. Thank you for producing this. A real eye-opener. Hopefully, we the little people can promote this important ethos to those who can bring about these so logical changes. Quite why 34 people would feel that downvoting the expose is a mystery to me.
Nearly exactly the same way i've been thinking about law and freedoms at the moment, we need to look closer at the reasons for crime and why they're happening (I'd suggest things like inequality and the pay gap, between classes, genders and race). We need to remove criminality from so many things, the laws that are designed to persecute certain demographics of our people not related to serious crime, along with help and support for those more likely to turn to crime as the sole way to support themselves decently. It's a much harder choice when you don't know where your next meal is coming from. Noting that most serious crime is related to the illegality of so many things, in the example here, legalising cannabis, thus being able to tax and regulate it far more (I'm not saying the black market would shut down, just that it would have a competitor that would reduce the chances of people turning to outright major crime as a way to support themselves.)
Thank you Chris. Your argument is persuasive and simple. Prison doesn't work and drugs ought to be a public health matter. It's not a lack of simplicity that stops many people from believing it. It's that the moralizing message is so commonplace it drowns out any rational debate. But here's an idea, a campaign for change supported by the victims of crime might make some progress against the tide. The public would listen to them. The press and politicians would be reluctant to attack them.
very important discussion
Totally agree wirh him. He is inside a defunct system . He understands
I have held the same position regarding drug policy as Chris Daw for a long time, and have also pointed out how damaging the misuse of drugs acts has been, as I'm not a QC my opinion holds less weight of of course! I have often ended up in discussions with family or colleagues regarding how useless punishment for its own sake is. To me, the guiding principle of any system including criminal justice should be; "what is the aim of this system?", and then "does this help achieve that aim?". if it does not then it needs to change. Extremely interesting to hear such an experienced individual saying all this. The idea of politicians or even individuals en masse putting aside emotive rhetoric for objectivity is very far wretched however. There needs to be some way of framing this in a more impactful way. Perhaps "Do you think our criminal justice system works? If not let's change it" is enough. Something has to give as carrying on as we are is not good enough.
Great podcast, I believe in Chris Daw.
He is correct with everything he says! Like he says within the parameters.
Great to hear this discourse. And quite apart from political and social analysis, I'd love to hear Christian playing some of these guitars on his wall...
Our ideas of rehabilitation usually revolve around education, job skills, and counseling. But this approach guarantees that many prisoners leave prison as merely better educated and better skilled criminals. Until criminals are taught how to know and feel their connection and value to others, learn how to shift their realities with positive thought, and are taught exactly how to live within society, no true transformation will take place.
I was in care..and attacked in care..im now 53 and remain homeless and damaged ..
Thank you many police support this as well.
Cathy Newman committed errors in summarizing her interviewee’s statements on Jan 16, 2018 and should be held to account for her poor job performance. Sanction Cathy Newman from further reporting until she apologizes!
The more punitive a criminal justice system is , the more it sustains violence in a given population and more often than not creates a criminalized underclass to the effect of increasing the punitive and exclusionary biases of a society and its criminal justice system.
Some have argued that such a vicious circle is not necessarily completely unintentional since it breeds a violent and repressive force that can be used to dominate a society internally and externally in imperial wars. However chickens come home to roost eventually as we see now in the US .
Interesting some thing I don't fully agree on but most I totally agree with
Hi Chris, Folks need to know how YOU informed Preston Crown Court how you got a Chief Superintendent 'OFF' with PERJURY and you told the Jury how this man had in your words "had an impeccable career in the Police" and yet HE KILLED AN 11yr OLD GIRL whilst driving a Police unmarked car OVER THE SPEED LIMIT !! The family of that girl are distraught still today................how does this sit with you ?
Check out chillinrooms Liverpool.ready to roll 20 yrs in the making
I really think we must keep people that use drugs out constant judgments and provide help and find medical support, education in schools, starting in primary school.
Speaks so much sense. I'm my opinion not enough people understand how the criminal system works and that's why it fail's in swaying people's opinions. In fact the system has very little to do with justice and mostly to do with hitting targets.
That is definitely something that has been forgotten.
prison isn't a punishment for people who are locked up prison.
prison is there to protect the public from the most dangerous people.
You shouldn't be locked up for non-violent crimes.
We have known for a long time that prison does not work but nobody has put forward acceptable alternatives.
Unfortunately its is true that some people are bad apples and don't function well within societies rules.
Detainment is pretty much the only response we have to these people.
The dislikes on this video obviously just read the title and downvoted. Some amazing points here and they are all common sense. Regulate, tax and commercialise it.
Only time the tories will ever be against 'personal freedoms' and the free market is when it comes to cannabis legalisation.
Strange how few people seem to care
34:35 "when you don't need defence lawyers any more you've cracked it". Not necessarily, you might have an even more repressive state where defence is either impossible or just not worth it.
Peter Hitchins should actually LISTEN to this guy
Peter H usually understands people like this. He chooses not to believe them. He's decided some time ago that he prefers his beliefs to beliefs based on facts and reasoning.
See the guy on a panel show. He'll get reasoned into the ground, shut up and then a short time later, repeat the rubbish reasoning he had to stop before.
@aha Hitchens argues all sorts of stuff, but he has weak reasoning between what he says he wants to and the results he says he wants to get.
Chris Daw claimed that an eight year old was hanged in Victorian times in England. I haven't read his book but this is an extremely dubious claim. Sometimes the age of criminals was not known exactly and criminals sometimes claimed to be younger than was plausible (just as asylum seekers do now) but when teenagers were hanged, this was noteworthy and only happened for the most serious crimes. If an eight year old were actually hanged much less a mass hanging of children as he claims, it's hard to see how this wouldn't be common knowledge. Since Chris Daw has covered this in his book, either he's being sloppy with the facts or he's deliberately misleading for effect.
Pure simple common sense
This idea of bad and good, eye for eye tooth for tooth, is from the bronze age 3000 years ago. Maybe it is time to update our ideas based on evidence?
Interestingly, even 2000 years of Christianity, with its "repent and you'll be redeemed" couldn't change this culture. Have we finally evolved enough? I guess only Norwegians did. That's what being rich gives the people - they become generous to others.
Worrying that he has a , "Live fast, die young" picture on his wall...
So a heroin addict mugs a pensioner to fund his/her drug habit. The pensioner dies.
According to Daw and other anti-justice zealots the thug shouldn't be punished but treated like he is the victim!
Daw has stated that he wants all prisons closed instead of reformed. That is dangerous and stupid.
I wonder how many of the abolish prison lobby have ever been victims of serious crimes?
the title this youtube video should contain the name of the podcast. or else it's hard to find
The issue with drugs is not usually the drug itself... it's what it's mixed with. Cannabis is illegal, so to ship less volume, the strength was increased drastically, which then causes mental health problems - it would be akin to drinking half a pint of beer to half a pint of hard vodka. If it was legalised, at the correct strength, taxes would increase, mental health & crime would DECREASE as power would go from the dealers to the government.
Spades of insight here, such as, 'We need to remove the concept of punishment' + 'punishment is a relic of our emotional past'. Punishment is a cultural and psychological cesspit which impacts on society as a whole. The Anglosphere needs to escape 19th century thinking and religious thinking (which often fixates on punishment) in order to move into the future.
with respect to MODA1971, I could not agree more. then there is the legislation that followed, viz, psychoactive substances act,2016, misuse of drugs regulations, 2001.if the UK had not bowed to US pressure I think we would have been in a better place with respect to drug policy, it is abundantly evident that MODA.1971 was based on racially motivated policy, not science. besides which if the act accurately reflected "the comparative dangers of drugs" alcohol and tobacco would be pretty much top of the scheduling list.
If they closed the prisons would make country unsafe and chris d is a way in flairy land and people like wayne couzens and david carrick would be back on the streets 😒 and i recommed we build more prisons
Man made justice versus DIVINE JUSTICE!
Internet worthy comment.
The problem with this argument is that it starts off with a faulty assumption. Namely that the justice system's goal should be his particular interpretation. I'm sure if I looked deeply into his arguments they all follow from that initial assumption about what the justice system should be. I think if you were to ask 100 people what they think the justice system's role is you would struggle to find five people who give the same answer. As far as I can tell, he thinks the Justice name is a misnomer, as it shouldn't have anything to do with Justice, it should be about prevention.
This isn't an argument in favour of the status quo (the war on drugs is absurd, for example), more just a problem with the cornerstone he lays his argument on top of.
Wow. Apply that to the police or fire service.
Sell mdma at chemist . Over 18s
Its about ADULTS 🐝IN ADULTS & CHILDREN 🐝IN SAFE ..
I feel his position is somewhat undermined by the "Live Fast Die Young" frame on his wall....
Although I actually agree with much of what he says.
It reads 'East' not 'Fast'!
four torts of law and the human rights act as a basis
with stability for all..secuirty of the persons..housing a right to own..and affordable costs..ie bills .? affordable foods..stop making our lives for profit
Fucking crazy
The comments here are so predictable. The War on Drugs has failed etc. And I recognise those points.
But a lot of people here seem to be overlooking one fact PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY
I am sympathetic to people who get hooked due to being spiked or a medical drug being wrongly administered
But if you knowingly take an ILLEGAL SUBSTANCE you are KNOWINGLY breaking the law
If you think the law is wrong then it can be changed but a lot of people talk as if users have no responsibility. They do!
First of all, uk should get with the 21st century and stop being so snobby and elitist by LEGALISING CANNABIS !!! And by stop elitism I mean the typical British way is that only the wealthy will get access to cannabis, which is wrong bs.
Any hope of THIS chap having A SAY? Genius. Nah, pis***g in the wind....When are you having him on again?
What would be a good solution to these problems? Don't forget, this is just a discussion, not a proposition to the gov. - not everyone understands the points being made so this is a discussion to help those who don't understand, understand.
For sure tho, preaching to the choir.
what.... this bloke wants paedophiles etc to be in society... really?!
Wait, is this the guy who got shut down by RDJ?
Legalising dissent and what is considered legitimate expression in many countries could reduce Russia's prison population.
Why do I say this? Because a Russian has been busy here shitposting for the FSB! Can you spotz her?
@K MT I say "shitpost" and you do! Are you going to stalk me again?! #ShitpostQuean
@Albert Pike You are an FSB stalker!
@@seang2700 I think some people would prefer to know that a single person is so prolific - and paid content. So, er, nope!
Close the prisons!! No, build more
commies