This Mechanic Doesn’t Do Anything
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ธ.ค. 2022
- Major shoutout to OD26 for discussing this topic with me at length ahead of time. While I don’t approve of his smurfing content, I highly recommend him as a coach. He’s a fabulous coach and was open to very interesting discussion on this topic with me. / 1598951882671632384
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#valorant
#coaching
#counterstrafe - เกม
Full disclosure, tapping A/D to stop can be more intuitive for people and help them time their shot better.
I'm taking issue with coaches explicitly stating that doing this tap is somehow WAY FASTER than letting go. It's not. It's also not going to take a player from Gold 1 to Immortal 3. It's ridiculous.
It’s like .09 milliseconds faster? Right? (Something like that) In a game where those milliseconds matter assuming your opponent is as good as you, is what makes the difference a lot of the time. You’re right, it wont take you from gold to immortal 3, but it is WAY faster when you are playing competent players. Might not be useful to golds, but learning the mechanic early on is how you perfect it. Not practicing this technique is how you fall behind.
@@Vune_GG uhh I face pros, is that not competent enough?
I don’t counterstrafe.
@@Vune_GG not for valorant. You’re better off abusing the movement in valorant rather than trying to play it like csgo. Valorant is much slower movement, so you have to be moving as much as possible
@@Vune_GG i would say change your internet providers and pc would make you shots WAY faster rather than learning this bullshit.
Are you 100 percent sure there's not a small difference? I've heard people say anywhere between 4 frames and 20 milliseconds
Aim. Gamesense. Positioning. Swag. Long ago, the four nations lived together in harmony. Then, everything changed when the Silver Nation attacked. Only the Diamond, master of all four elements, could stop them, but when the world needed him most, he vanished. A hundred years passed and my brother and I discovered the new Diamond, a boomer named jpc. And although his aim skills are great, he has a lot to learn before he's ready to save anyone. But I believe jpc can save the world.
goat comment
These jpc memes just keep getting better
And teamwork
WAIT.. THIS IS IN THE NEW HOW TO HIT IMMORTAL 3 VIDEO HAHAH
Oh woohoojin took inspiration from this comment
There’s been so many guides I’ve watched where aim routines and counter strafing is the first thing mentioned or advertised in thumbnails. I went from Bronze 2 to Plat 1 in 3 acts playing 3 games a day. Not because of counter strafing or a pro aim routine but because I self reflected and watched my vods back. I got comfortable on 1 role and did intentional research on how to get better at that specific role
👑 you dropped this
@@Woohoojin ❤
nope you did that because of the new episode bumping you up. I went from silver 2 to ascendant 2 with little improvement
@@80toaster68 you're just lying. The difference between silver and ascendant is night and day. To say you haven't improved basing it on the new episode is just low self esteem on your part. Don't project that onto me
@@Solgrem W
I just watched the first tutorial video two days ago and implemented it into my current warmup routine to clean up my gunfight hygiene. I'm glad that banana man shed light to the unnecessary routine stuff that I wasn't aware of
Always felt that they were the same if not negligible, but Val players and coaches always echo chambered how much better it was. coming from a CS background it just makes sense. Appreciate the clean and simple breakdown video watching your vids is really helpful for improvement and overall I just like you style of coaching and vids. Awesome as always
Thanks for the tip! All of your videos have been so helpful to me! I went from silver 3 to high gold 3 in a months worth of watching you. Keep up the good work! :)
I had a really short career in CS. So for me this is just in my muscle memory. But what I notice is that in CS counterstrafing doesn't decrease aceleration. It outright freaking stops you and you are virtually accurate the moment you do it. In Valorant you still have the deceleration period so it does make less sense to practice.
exactly why valorant feels clunky and not grounded.
@@TheVolcomnoob because you can't immediately stop momentum?
@@JJ_cooks yeah, this makes the movement feel less snapier compared to CS, this + the player movement being higher gives you the sensation you have way more control over your character movement.
@@JJ_cooks that's why when I used to play CS people would accelerate and stop of out of nowhere and one shot me with ak47, its so frustrating in CS but in valorant movement is easy.
@@Bulsara777 From my understanding, in CSGO you start out at top speed, and decelerate while stopping. In Valorant, you accelerate while getting to top speed, and stop instantly. Is that right?
I have been binging your videos the past 2 days and I have learned so much more compared to other channels combined
I’m trying to improve in the game by watching several guides and I’ve been trying to counter strafe for weeks without any result. I’m glad to see that I’ve been doing that wrong because it was very frustrating.
thanks for everything you have done and you will do, you’re probably the best coach for this game and the only one I've seen results with, i was hard stuck on bronze one month ago and now thanks to your guides I finally reached Silver 3 today and I can’t wait to reach gold and joining the raffles for the vod reviews
I second that ❣️
Im a new player and have a lot to learn. I like your vids and guides because i feel them sincere, like a pal taking the time to explain things easy but in deep.
You gained a new suscriber, veteran banana man. Thank you
I literally watched this last night and was just doing the counter-strafe test on the 1st guide you mentioned . ty , you saved me.
Hey there! I'm the "Radiant Coach" getting roasted in this video.
Just going to respond with my insight on counter-strafing and it's value in Valorant.
Generally speaking, a counter-strafe provides less frame advantage in Valorant compared to in a game like CS:GO where it's completely necessary. But frame advantage isn't always the only thing that matters when learning a technique. As a coach, I think you understand that as well. In my opinion, the biggest advantage of learning counter-strafing in its current form is to understand the value of control when it comes to mastering movement (or any skill for that matter).
Another thing to point out that I feel like is extremely important is that you mention the value of dead-zoning, without connecting deadzoning to the counter-strafe's frame advantage. Dead zone in itself is apparent in all movements, which means that if the counter-strafe improves the frame by ~10 frames, then dead-zone kicks in 10 frames faster as well. You can test this in the range with the movement error turned on, where you'll see that as you stop movement, deadzone is still reached before full stop. This 10 frame advantage might not be "necessary" but it's always better to have this frame advantage than to not have it. Just like how some people switch to 1600 dpi over 800/400 dpi for the very miniscule ~1-2ms of input latency. Competitive advantages are built upon small efficiencies.
At the same time, tapping the opposite key creates a strong physical cue to:
1. Reset your movement
2. Create a mental connection with the timing based on a physical cue.
At the end of the day though, I think that the most valuable part is, in my opinion, tied to the insights you gain from mastering counter-strafing as opposed to the movement technique itself in all situations. Kind of like a wax-on wax-off situation. My video covers most importantly the insights necessary to become fully in CONTROL, and that's where mastery really is.
Also, I believe that a player who can master their movement fully can easily rise to Immortal 3. That's my honest and truthful opinion about what's important in Valorant and what's secondary. In isolation? Maybe not, but in reality, it's never in isolation.
Let me know if you have any questions!
Heyo! I'd love to debate you on this live on my stream. Can you reach out on Discord? Christian#0009 (case sensitive).
I don't see how practicing tapping A/D to stop your movement helps at all in practicing deadzoning/jiggling. I see these as two different mechanics. Valorant is my first tac FPS, I learned how to jiggle just fine and still find counterstrafing to stop movement unintuitive and clunky.
@@Woohoojin Added you, are you streaming currently?
@@Woohoojin Also to quickly point out some reasons:
Jiggling at the end of the day is about control, but in 99% of cases, a player cannot handle movement to that level of mastery (even radiants). In essence, deadzoning/jiggling is actually an "ideal practice" that never shows up fully in game. I can demonstrate my thought-process if you'd like.
so who won the debate
What a waste of time to even reply here. It already had been tested fully frame by frame, the real advantage gain here is 0.02. Lets leave it to everyone else to debate, as a content creator both should do a research before posting such long notes or even a video on whether or not counter strafe. If people think they can become immortal 3 by this 0.02 advantage let them be. Also I will have to point out that beside the 0.02 sec advantage, @royalG HAVE VERY GOOD POINTS on the genre of tactical shooter game which is
"At the same time, tapping the opposite key creates a strong physical cue to:
1. Reset your movement
2. Create a mental connection with the timing based on a physical cue."
great video man, glad some people arent just greedy for views and tell reliable information rather than clickbaiting and hyping people with absolutely unreal promises
i spent like 3 hours learning how to counter strafe in the range before and just trying to figure out that deceleration window thing :') thankful that you shed light on this and i'm gna focus on deadzoning now
Deceleration?
Thanks for the video man i really appreciate it
In a world of deception, banana is the bacon of truth.
Dang I just watching that video. Bro you're really are the best thank you man.
Given what Split looks like in that clip, I'm wondering if a lot of the guides out there emphasizing counter strafing are from in the way early Valorant days when people might've just assumed Valorant was like CSGO in that regard cuz people just didn't know as much about the game that early on
The first clip I took where the coach says "Gold 1 -> Immortal 3" was from a video posted 2 weeks ago.
@@Woohoojin I JUST watched that and I just started to try and learn how to counter strafe
I'm currently gold 3 and honestly trying to incorporate counterstrafing to my deathmatches just made my aim feel worse lmfao I'm dropping less kills
thanks for not making me feel like my comfort zone is wrong
that last clip on split is from a video made 2 years ago tbf. It was made by a creator called shakes who played cs:go before valorant so what you said is most likely the case, at least for that guy.
I’ve been explaining to my friend this very thing but he still doesn’t believe me. Gonna show him this video.
Woohoojin with another W video
Then he's not your friend. Dump him!
I also only let go as well. But I do tap the opposite movement key when I know someone is at an angle and it’s the best way to stop myself at the right time without over or under swinging. So both ways are valid but the time difference is quite literally negligible
Ffs I watched those vids and started they so claimed counter strafe routine, thx 4 bringing light into ma life
Bro i was so much stuggling with the timing part of counter strafing coz i tought i had to learn this to escape elo hell after watching the vids you mentioned . Thanks for sharing this info (btw i think your content will blow up soon i can edit your vids if you want , u can give a sample too)
Counter strafing in Valorant doesn't really do anything because the declaration in Valorant is different than that of CSGO's. While it makes sense to do it in CS because you slide for a split second after you let go of a movement key and your shots are inaccurate as long as you are in a state of movement. In Valorant, you stop as soon as you let go of the key and your shots become accurate in an instant so counter strafing isn't necessary. The only reason people do it in Valorant is because of the muscle memory they carried over from CS.
And I always say this, game sense is as important as aim if not more. What most people don't realise is that having a good game sense means you can outkill your enemies in a lot of situations. Knowing your angles, holding off angles in certain situations, map knowledge, utility usage, all these things contribute.
Me who's been trying to learn how to counterstrafe. Thank you for opening my eyes.
just transition to csgo
ez
My mannnnnn
Ohh my god it's Od
who knew the messiah of valorant coaching would come in the form of a damn banana
Thank you when i started out valorant which was 2 months ago i didn't know how to play so i did all the research that i can so i can immediately know the basics and climb ranks faster and saw a video about counter-strafing and practiced it almost every day and when i got it down i didn't rlly realize any difference from the letting go of the key and was wondering if there is a difference but every where on TH-cam said counter-strafing was a needed thing for pros to do and when i tried to not counter-strafing it in a comp game and didn't see a difference
Gotcha dude. Definitely more intuitive for me to counter strafe because I have been doing it forever and it has been ingrained into my muscle memory. Jiggling is definitely more helpful because I can prefire heads from cover
yes jiggling benefits from deadzoning (aka true counterstrafe where you don't press both A/D at same time), so you can't really counterstrafe jiggling, you will be very slow (unless it's a "true counterstrafing").
However, counterstrafing still work in valorant if you do wide peek where you have considerable momentum, it will definitely make your fba sooner. Absolutely EVERY radiant player both use cs'ing and deadzoning situationally and can explain why (because I've asked them during their live and on discord).
I'm happy someone finally said that.
W video, always know that atleast one radiant coach won't lie to me ;)
And thats why you're the GOAT..THE GOAT....You're the only coach who I can believe with my eyes closed
even if it's useless, counter strafing helps me keep focus in gunfights, it's hard for my brain to wait for a split second then shoot when "it feels right", i prefer having the opposite key as a memo of "this is when you shoot". Still thanks for sharing the knowledge
That's totally valid!
I'm calling out coaches/pros who tell lower rated players that they NEED to learn this mechanic to rank up.
Anyone who finds this form of stopping more intuitive/easier to use - should absolutely continue to use it!
1:06 THIS IS WHY YOU'RE MY FAVORITE COACH LMFAOOOOOOOO
Thank you for this. Im a csgo player trying to get back into valorant, and this is honestly mind blowing.
You’re probably the best Valorant help content creator Ive seen. Keep up the great work.
Don’t get rid of your good habits, it’s still faster than not counter strafing. 😐 if you are a csgo player, stick to those habits, they will still benefit you
@@Vune_GG it really isn’t faster tho, as proved in the video the accuracy doesn’t change whether your counter strafing or not, so realistically counter strafing just makes it easier for you to get killed by slowing you down
@@bhawkis5755 its a millisecond of a difference if you counterstraife, if he wants to fully utilize this he must shoot at the exact millisecond of advantage time he has over others. but yea it kinda doesn't make a difference.
@@Vune_GG its faster tho
keep counterstrafing, iirc it is like a few frames faster but not enough to be worth practicing
Good to know!
THANKS !! I never played CS and climb to Immortal 3 with a friend of mine who didnt believe me when i told him i never counter straffed 🤣
THANK YOU
The most important mechanic in valorant is probably jump spotting and all new players need to learn it
At this point I just do it by habit tbh, but I get why people get confused. All tapping the other strafe key does is stop you from moving the other way which letting go also does.
Ty for content banana
me personally, I know counterstrafing doesn't make you stop faster but it still helps me with the timing of my shot so that's the reason why I use it
I can't believe this is still being debated to this day, I'm pretty sure this was a popular topic of discussion back in the beta. There's next to no start and stop velocity in this game compared to CSGO, I still counter strafe but over a decade of playing CS has that shit ingrained in my mind and body. I counter strafe in Minecraft LOL.
I always thought it was the same as cs.. thanks!
Huge W
It is way easier to stop accurately if you hit the opposite key. Timing by pressing is simply easier than timing by releasing. Thats it.
Thanks
Banana woke up extra yellow today and chose violence
there are quite a few people who tested it with computer scripted inputs, and apparently you get like 0.02 second faster stop with counterstrafing or something, the point is that there is a benefit for a few frames at best, it is not the holy bible of how to take fights in val as it is in cs
I mean I still do it just cause I did it for so long now to relearn the timing of shooting while not counterstrafing is bothersome
good video but you should've also added a frame by frame comparison to show letting go the key and pressing the opposite. I remember a video that did this and for them there was a couple frame difference.
There is! Counterstafing gives you accuracy after 80ms instead of 90ms!
In reality everyone actually takes closer to 120-130ms to shoot to obtain consistency with their shot accuracy. Humans aren't robots - we're not capable of clicking consistently 80-89ms after tapping a key.
There's a reason I said there's no "Real world" difference. There is an objective difference. However I can stop + shoot as fast as literally any professional player you name who uses counterstrafing. For all intents and purposes this means the mechanic is relatively worthless.
@@Woohoojin you should have included the numbers in the video I think
@@3XH1L I'm less of a theoretical guy and more of a practical guy. If I can hit identical clips to pros using counterstafing then I'm happy.
OD26 will be releasing a video on the raw objective numbers for this topic soon. I highly recommend you keep an eye out for that if the real numbers interest you.
I learnt counterstrafing took me from silver to gold, but my only problem is when i strafe to the left and go back they're still shooting at the same spot so I die so what I like to do is delay my strafe or strafe once only.
100% agreed
As mostly csgo player i can confirm this, don't you notice that most csgo struggle to stop counterstrafing, thats why even me joined a regular match in valorant, was destroyed the first couple of games, but never noticed why, until i saw this video... Thanks mate.
I personally somehow find it easier to press another key to stop than to release the key
I simply love you 😁
In Valorant your character stops immediately when you let go of a movement key. I tried counter-strafing but it only fucks up your aim cause if you press a key too much you're gonna move too far left or right. Just let go of the key and shoot.
Shroud said the same thing too, that in valorant you just stop almost immediately when you let go of the key and its useless for valorant
PREACH
Even though counter strafing is useless in Valorant (I knew that even when I learned it) it makes me feel more in control of my movement.
That's totally valid! I'm calling out coaches who explicitly state it's "too slow" to let go of your key. Telling a low elo player they "NEED" to learn counterstrafing to rank up is way different than telling them it can potentially help them feel more in control of their movement.
Thank you for this. It is such bs to claim that counterstrafing will help with drastically improving aim when positioning and gunfight hygiene are far more important
Bro you are way too underrated. you deserve better
Yeah ive seen lots of videos and in the end i decided on tapping a/d to stop only because it feels more natural to me. There's pros who do it either way so if it doesn't matter at a pro level I should just do what's most comfortable
I'm late but thanks for pointing this out. Im a radiant player and valorant as my first serious fps did not let me incorporate counter strafing to my peeks. So no u dont need a csgo mechanic to get good at the game unless ure really bad at timing ur shots.
I learned this mechanic before straffing correrctly.... -.-
Ty Mister Banana 🍌📖
Sir woohoojin is great he helped me to climb from iron 3 to ascendant 3 in 8 months he is better than my own 1on1 coach he just tells me counterstrafe all the time crosshair should be perfect gamesense will build good itself and just and the time gets over but i always used to watch 1woohoojin video related to me what i had to improve in my game.
THanks SIR Woohoojin ( The Banana Man)
Thank you, I made a weird version using the shift key to stop instead of the opp. movement key. I missed so many shots to it Bc. i main guardian.
I trust the Banana. I was trying to figure this out as an Iron 3, but I trust the Banana more.
Thanks for the disillusion
Honestly strafe shooting and counter-strafing is essentially the same, but, like you said in the comment, it is not a mechanic that would rank you up to fucking immortal. I wouldn't say counter-strafing is COMPLETELY useless, as it is slightly faster if you want to keep moving after your first strafe shoot, and it is more convenient to just need to hold down a key rather than press it again.
yo this diss track is fire
This shit got me from plat 1 to diamond 2 in 6 days
Peeking and holding angle are the most important things in valorant i think.Can you please make a proper guide to master these techniques?
Lol ive seen the first coaching vid u mentioned there
thanks i searched this everywhere and didnt find an answer almost wasted 10 dollars to ask a pro player if it was worth it.
that video is from royal g lol😂 I saw it yesterday
There is a slight timing advantage to counter strafing but imo its so ridiculously minor, that if you didn't come from cs (i did) then you're actually hurting yourself by learning it because that time could be used to learn so many more efficient mechanics or concepts for this game.
I love it when you destroy things we think that are true but actually wrong with facts and proof. just love it
I just try to compare between let it go the key and counterstrafing, and yup, there is no different 😂
Yes master
Noooo not the shakes video 😭
1:21 that part got me dying bruh 💀
Counterstrafing is still useful regardless especially when it comes to peeking.
exactly, yes jiggling makes almost (non significantly) the same delay to have an accurate shot however there's still a noticeable difference in the movement itself, that's to say in the crosshair momentum which is definitely useful to move + aim more accurately and to peek more efficiently
Finally a guy who actually knows what he's talking about, in C's counter strafing is a skill,in Val, it does almost nothing, there isn't advanced movement system or stamina in Val like C's.
Holy shit bruh, blew my mind ngl. +1 sub. I appreciate the info
i just counter strafe because of cs muscle memory, i mess up my timing on shooting if i dont do it, but ik it doesnt rly do much lol
oh god im looking for this 3 month
Now im confused other coaches say that coutner strafing is just moving left and right constantly while shooting
Genuine question: if you're running at max speed, isn't it a decent bit faster to counterstrafe? I see it might be true for a step or two, but can you test if it's any quicker to counter strafe at max speed? Thank you
OD26 will be releasing an in depth video on this with objective evidence.
Make sure you watch that video. However I can tell you now that the answer is "they're the same", I watched him test it live on stream.
ah so that's why even when I never bothered to learn counterstrafing I still hit my one taps lol
im immo 1-2 player and i dont counterstrafe but yesterday on twitter yay said it makes huge difference for him and its a need so idk
The only problem I have is that counter strafing is muscle memory for me its engrained in my brain.
Will there be any guides for split when it came out again?
Yes!
Funny enough yay mentioned he counterstrafes. He might've intuitively learned jiggle but he counterstrafes like in CS:GO.
OHHHHHHHHHHH what I practiced for 5 weeks straight was jiggling.
I just hold the opposite key because I feel most comfortable doing that when jiggling is that a bad habit or since it works for me keep doing it?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I use the word strafeing instead of jiggling. Strafeing I believe is the correct term you were looking for.
thing is though even in csgo it doesn't make much of a difference if any either because you are still swaying when you counter strafe just learn to jiggle an you will be efficient in both games
What I heard is that IN VALORANT, counterstrafing only speeds up the "stopping" action by 1 FRAME. 1 frame doesn't sound like a ton of difference to me.
is that the secret sauce jpc needs to go from silver to immortal?!
So is there any disadvantage to counter strafing? I already do that, since i got the habit from cs and never stopped
Even Shroud agrees with you regarding counter strafing.
This, but for BunnyHopping.