How Much Power Does an AFDD Consume?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ก.ค. 2024
- The latest changes to BS7671 require electricians to install arc fault detection devices in residential applications. AFDDs include microprocessors that can detect arc current signatures, raising the question of how much electricity these little guys consume. In this video, we look at three popular models and compare power consumption with other fixed electrical equipment such as USB sockets or neon indicators found inside socket outlets.
AFDDs from Lewden, BG Electrical & Seimens (Crabtree and Wylex Brands)
Amendment 2 of BS7671 the UK wiring regulations is in full force from 27th September 2022
🕐 TIME STAMPS 🕕
======================
00:00 AFDDs and energy consumption
00:10 Arcs
00:53 USB and energy consumption
01:36 USB sockets
02:28 Neon's
02:55 Worry about neon's
04:04 Our consumer unit
04:31 RCBO's are full of electronics
05:04 RCBO energy consumption
05:58 Lewden AFDD energy consumption
06:15 BG AFDD energy consumption
06:29 What's inside a Wylex AFDD
07:05 Wylex AFDD energy consumption
07:29 AFDD consumer unit
08:13 New energy prices
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REVEALED: The Secrets of an Arc Fault Detection Device AFDD
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Is this the real reason we should be fitting AFDDs? - Arc Fault Detection Devices
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Electricity Meter Running Backwards 😱👉 th-cam.com/video/lcsLTfjLBMA/w-d-xo.html
It's just a matter of time until the utility salesmen surreptitiously start charging for apparent power instead of actual power. When that happens the cost of running one of the many devices that use capacitive dropper power supplies (time switches, PIR and dusk sensors) their yearly cost will multiply by about ten times.
Add in the many poor quality LED lamps.
@bigclivedotcom absolutely agree the question remains yet their own infrastructure investments are lacking. We live in a world when the financial model lords it over the engineering side - race to the bottom to squeeze cost and quality out. The reality is this approach undermines the long-term brand values - name your example here…..
Is charging for KVAR made on commercial installations in the UK?
How are smoke alarms powered?
@@stevejagger8602 very often yes. Also they charge based on maximum demand too sometimes
Lets say you have say 16 installed x £0.70 gives a "parasitic load" cost of £11.20 moving up to £15.00 with the new prices.
Certainly not insignificant.
Multiplied by 27.8 million homes in the UK gives about £400 million - that's a few power stations.
We know John Ward (Yoda) has covered all of these points but Ant and Dec are far more entertaining 😆
Great video guy’s as always👍👍❤️
Thanks Sean
I will definitely never get Alexa or Google nest or any device of that sort!
Interesting video lads, this does show that HMO student accommodation with prepayment meters are definitely going to feel it more than the average person before they've even started to put loads onto their circuits. I wonder if it'll push even more students into Travel Lodge etc places to avoid the increased yearly costs and make more effective use of their student loans.
Can you guys look at mains powered smoke alarms, it's worse than you might think......
I've noticed that. A multi sensor linked system can suck up some juice.
@@davidsharp9166 eevblog did a video and calculation for Australia and it was truly frightening.....
@@paarker BTW yes I can disarm a G4 without a code as I reverse engineered it and found a flaw in the system that you would not believe! We are talking a few seconds. On access to a keypad about 3 seconds to turn off/disable with brute force!
@@timballam3675 would you share with me as I’m currently reverse engineering my panels comms protocol, interested to understand.
Have you tried an active rcd plug there always warm to the touch .
There has been significant covered over the years not to leave appliances on standby to save electricity. Safety wise a good idea, but what good are they if they don't work on all circuits. They outcome can be the same for a lighting circuit as power circuit.
Those small loads add up, especially if you have a half dozen or so of them installed. However the old style mechanical meter would under read with this, because the load is small, and the stiction of the movement is enough at this low level to make a high drag compared to the torque, so the meter will barely move for these loads. New digital meters though will have a better register of this, even though the power draw is going to be very much much into the noise floor of the unit, and thus likely to be removed by the auto zero of the meter unit after a while.
Of course if you have millions of these installed your electricity suppliers will have to provide power for them all the time, just like the largest power use of the common stove top and oven, and the microwave oven, is the actual clock on the unit, simply because it is a constant power draw, while actual usage is in general only brief, even if it is 3 orders of magnitude higher.
All of what you said only applies when there is no load and everything is turned off, which is rarely the case - the typical household always has something drawing power. As soon as there is another load, these small quiescent currents will just add to the total power consumption and will be registered by any meter. A bank of 10 AFDD's will draw ~5 watts, at 52p / kWh that's £22.78 a year!
Off topic, could you do a video on the thermal effects of ev chargers ? Surely the service head, tails and consumer unit that its connected to must get some temperature in it running at 32A for many hours
A Fridge isolator probably doesn't need a Neon indicator as it's on most of the time! But a Dishwasher is probably useful if you switch it off when it's not being used
👍 great
I was very surprised the classic neon used that much power. How does it compare with later ones with LED indicators? If you are looking at more vampire devices those night lights built into a 13amp plug are interesting and use more power during the day when the light is off!
So we’re we - we’ll checkout an LED version and report back.
I've gone to war on small power supplies at work - hundreds of these USB and laptop charging stations have had their supplies controlled, or changed out entirely for greater energy efficiency. The return on investment is going to be months, rather than years.
With power prices where they are paybacks are amazing on all sorts of small power devices.
Good video i have a question old surge protector extension lead when they failed leaked current and tripped rcd’s. Do surge protectors on consumer units leak when they become faulty? Obviously most tenants wont look at the indicator. Thanks
SPDs usually fail short circuit
@@efixx thanks, so boards like Hager which use an SPD without an MCB do they have inbuilt overload protection or does the main service fuse protect against this.
I take it the 20watts of power for the Sonos system is the whole setup, otherwise you need to check again as these are only a couple of watts per device once they go to low power sleep mode. A lot of people make the mistake of measuring devices straight after they have been powered up; and not after they have suspended and gone into their sleep mode. (We looked into this when we were installing large Sonos arrays 15 years ago - from memory they sleep after 20mins of no playback and sit there eating only 3W - but I imagine the newer switchmode power supply versions of the amps and speakers will be better)
Yes the whole set up - 2 ones plus, sound bar and a sub
@@efixx Seems high - try rechecking after 30mins of being plugged in - I bet you a sausage roll it will be lower
@@paulbell7654 since they need to listen 24/7 for a Alexa call they can't go into a deep sleep because they need to figure out that you said hello instead of Alexa this needs significant processing power
@@neok1996 I understand that on the Alexa enabled units, the output side goes into deep sleep(power amplifier/DSP and associated circuits)
It'd be interesting to see the schneider electric lisse spurs(sorry fcus ;) ) that use an LED instead of a Neon.
Most type AC rcds have 3 components... 2 rectifiers in inverse parallel to limit the current to the trip coil, and a capacitor to smooth it, on a tiny pcb. Surprised me how simple they are electrically.
And twenty bleeding watts for a smart speaker? WOW... glad i don't have any LOL (also we still have an old electromech. meter that as SeanBZA noted, likely underreads on low loads)
Wow so some houses, have some serious vampire loads from all these devices....
The Meter uses
The RCBO
The AFDD
The USB built in chargers
The Neon indicators.
On top of the Chargers
Obviously not *that* serious at an electricity cost of 27p to £1 per year per load.
@@deang5622 I know my houses reported minimum load after the next price rise is about 100 a year, I'm guessing.
I've got smoke alarms pulling 5watts in total. A load of Pir Sensors, neon indicators, 16 way Consumer board with RCBO's, Smart immersion/central heating programmer. An at least 2 built in usb charging sockets per room.
Then you add on stuff I don't really need, like router, CCTV, network switch, NAS, Extractors (running every time the lights come on even if not needed).
If your home is heated with electricity there isn't any difference in total home cost as long as it isn't installed outside or in a garage
The heat from the devices offsets the home heating.
By that logic everything is 100% efficient
@@neok1996 in winter...
@@neok1996 it pretty much is
@@neok1996 every electric heater is 100% efficient.
100% of electric energy always end up as heat, an led bulb makes lots of light but when the light dissipates to the walls it gets converted to heat.
And incandescent lights are also 100% efficient to make heat AND light.
Only downside is in the summer when you want to cool your house it is wasted heat, or if you use heat pump since they are usually around +400% efficient to heat.
Another big power draw is the absolutely horrible power supplies in the AC smoke detectors. They really add up as well. Here in the USA most all breakers are AFCI's in a residential setting, along with a large number of GFCI's. I would expect in the next few NEC updates 2023 is the next, that most all breakers will have to be AFCI/GFCI. We have 76 breakers in our house. Also who pays for the smart meters power, the power company or customer? Just a point of reference here as well our power cost where I am at in Texas is $0.11USD/kWh. That is our normal rate 24x7. If you want to do time of use peak can be about $0.15/kWh and off peak about $0.06/kWh. You can also get a nights and weekends free plan as well, where the peak time is higher, but power at night and all weekend is $0.00/kWh. I think you guys are getting past the California rates, which are some of the highest in the country. Do you have specific EV rate plans there?
Good point on the smoke detectors we’ll take a look at a few and find out the power use. UK power prices are now ridiculous. We do have special EV tariffs and lots of time of use demand based tariffs. Standard UK price cap rate rises this October to $0.60 - a challenging time ahead.
I wouldn't be surprised if they banned ev charging in Belgium or Europe at night
I'm not against ev's but our electric grit is not ready
I did the calculations and figured out that Belgium needs 2Gw of power 24/7 to drive electric 24/7 that's considering all peaple are charging 24/7 if they only charge at night we will need 4Gw 12h/day
Well done the myth busters. ™
❤👍👍👍👍👍👍
Just think 10 million houses. .26p each a year at the moment. Say you have 6 or 8 on average in each house.
It is worth contemplating how much power 20+ million homes consume on the grid just from indicator lights. If we add the power from other stuff which isn't doing anything very useful in standby we can easily knock out a small power station or two.
Problem with a lot of electronics is the manufacturer sees the idle power consumption as an externality as they don't pay the bill and therefore don't put any effort into power reduction. It wouldn't be a bad idea to add lifetime power consumption of products into a manufacturers/distributors scope 3 emissions and add a good chunk of carbon tax to them. Wishful thinking.
Smoke detectors are a huge offender, they take about 0.5W power but most of them have an appalling power factor often resulting in a draw of over 10VA. Multiply that by the number of homes and you end up with a significant amount of power factor correction for the grid.
Did you say £85 a year for an Alexa device?
It’s £85 for a Sonos Surround System with Alexa built in.
As I have said to many people, all this health and safety costs more in waste... And more technology uses more energy.
22p a year on usb sockets?
Glad I didn't buy any then 🤣
Just add that cost to your home insurance....
One reason why I unplug all TV's, computers and AC units when not in use. They are all VAMPIRE LOADS! They continuously suck power and secretly drain one’s wallet.
So OK hardly any amount of power. Let's say I Was to steal one penny a day from every persons bank account. Why don't USB charger sockets only use power when switched on.
Built in usb sockets use around 0.25w when in standby - they can’t be switched off
@@efixx That I do know I have for testing rewired the inside so it is only on when socket is switched on. Only a tiny bit of power on each but add it all up for each house. As I say imagine stealing 1p a day from every bank account in the UK and 1p a day from every shop till.
With electricity prices jumping in Europe because of bad government sanctions, I guess you now have a good use for that switch on every socket. If your smart speaker costs £7 a month to run, turning off these devices will save big, and big brother won't be listening to you all the time.
Complete waste of time AFDD's they're more trouble then they're worth
Yeah but Manufacturer’s gravy train
@@daves8003 Don't forget about the governing bodies also!
@@tyronenelson9124 Nonsense. The IET would not recommend or require them unless there was a tangible benefit.
@@deang5622 yes they would, the tangible benefit is money , that is what they have always been interested in and always will be . They are a business first and foremost.
@@Dog-whisperer7494 Mr Dempsey, this has been your claim all along and it is not the first time you have made it. Yet you have provided no evidence for it.
Either back it up with substantive evidence or be quiet.
I personally know people in the IET and I know the calibre of these people and quite frankly I am disgusted by your slanderous remarks.
I expect you not to repeat them again, unless you have the evidence.
I like most of the eFIXX videos but these two handers are full of unnecessary waffle and confusing and imprecise chit-chat. Let's just have a single bloke set out the facts. All this matiness just gets in the way.