The 50cc Motorcycle with a top speed of 118 mph in the 1960s
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 พ.ค. 2022
- Today we're looking at the incredible Honda RC116, a 50cc racebike from the 1960s capable of well over 100mph, producing up to 16 horsepower at 22k rpm. This video is about exactly what makes this such a special motorcycle
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Bart I don't know where you got your HPO figures but the RC 116 produced 21 HP at 21,500 rpms and the normally asperated engine had 98% Volumetric Efficiency. I worked for Honda from 1967 to 1969. The riders of those bikes weighed about 80 lb. and to turn the bike they would just throw out their leg from behind the fairing. WE saw 120MPH down the main strait at Riverside Raceway in 1968.
That comment is great for a number of reasons, Cheers. Riverside in the 60s must have been a blast.
21500 rpm?! Holy cow!
What was really incredible about the engines was the 98% Volumetric Efficiency . This is nearly supercharged performance. Most normally asperated engines have maybe 20-30 % VE! The intake tract for each cylinder was tapered from the venturi on the carb down to the diameter of the Valves in one continuous taper. It was also nearly strait. The "Ram Effect of this configuration is what caused them to make such HP> At the time (Mid 60's) 1 hp. for every 10 CC of displacement was considered good performance. These engines had 4+ HP for every 10CC's or 4X what normal engines had at the time. It was pretty cool to hear these little engines screaming their guts out on the mile long strait at Riverside in 1968.
The Japanese Factory Riders looked like they were 12 years old maybe 80 lbs. on a good day..
@@buchananprecisionmachine5490 volumetric efficiency of most Naturally Apirated engines is not 20 to 30% . It’s much more in the 80 -90 % range.
Perhaps you’re thinking of thermal efficiency a very different thing. It makes me doubt your corrected power figures
@@TheHarryMann ;;\ Clive: Normally Asperated engines in the 1960's were lucky to get 30% VE, We are talking 500CC Single Cylinder BSA Gold Stars With 35-40 HP in Ascot Flat Track Tune, and in 1968 a Triumph T120 (Bonneville)had 46 bhp @ 6,500 rpm . Now the Bonneville has 79 HP So things have changed. A 283CI Chevy engine in that time period had 195 HP ! My dad had one in his 66 Chevy!
Engines nowadays are much more efficient, but the 98% VE figure and HP figures for the RC116 engine was published in Every Motorcycle Rag of the day. I still have lots of them. I was a Mechanic at Honda Ventura in 1967 until 1969 when I got drafted, and we saw everything Honda made at the time because Honda's Development Facility was in Oxnard CA (10 MI from our shop) At the Riverside Race in 1968 we were in the Honda pits for the entire day and talked with all the mechanics who actually spoke English, as well as the American Mechanics. They were very free with the specs on those bikes and we got to see dyno printouts which confirmed the HP figures. We didn't believe the HP figures until we saw the dyno charts because at at that time a Honda 50 Street Bike Engine had about 5 hp! I have a 1968 Trail 90 and it will do a strong 50 mph on Flat Land.
Big difference between the Trail Bike engine and the Racer,
.
There are so many inaccurate comments below, I have to intervene!
I am myself a former 1960 GP driver and I was there to witness all this display of technology, achieved with no computers and no CNC machining. I also own a fantastic replica of the RC116 made in Holland by a true mechanical genius, and yes, it does rev all the way to 23000 RPM. You warm it up at 15 grand!
BUT... the RC116 never had more than 13.7 HP at the rear wheel. This figure is a direct quote from the very man who achieved that power after working on the twin-cylinder engine for 3 years, Shoishiro Irimajiri, in an interview in 1992 by the French journalist Jacques Bussillet. When Honda realized that the ever-improving twin-cylinder Suzuki, the RK66, would be impossible to beat in 1967, they quit racing both their 50cc and their Irimajiri designed 125cc 5-cylinder, with which Luigi Taveri won the 1965 and 1966 titles. That one is also quoted to have 42 HP, but the simple truth is that Irimajiri was only able to coax 32 HP from it. The 125-5 uses many parts of the 50cc RC116.
The RC116 had 9 gears, the RK66, 12 and the RK67, 14! And this was barely enough to keep the engine in its very narrow power band.
Modern 50cc GP bikes were limited to a single cylinder and 6 speeds since 1969. By 1972, they were going faster than the Japanese twins.
Power figures quoted in the media for the Suzuki RK66 are also a bit off, I read figures of 19 HP... that never happened until 10 years later with the very evolved, Kreidler-based, single cylinder engines that were raced in the 50cc class in 1977. The RK66 had about 15.5 HP, and the RK67, another half HP and two more gears. Their speed approached 195 km/h at Spa, the fastest circuit then.
Also, to contradict "Buchanan Precision Machine" on more very inaccurate details (including the simple fact that none of the three RC116s built was ever in the United States to this day) Luigi Taveri and Ralph Bryans, who were the works drivers for Honda on the RC115 and RC116, were small men, but their weight was not "80 lbs" but 60 kilos, or 132 lbs. In fact Ralph was 140 lbs, Luigi 145. And the sole Japanese driver who raced the third example built (Japanese GP 1966) was any lighter.
Also the bikes HAD to weigh the minimum FIM weight of 60 kilos or 132 lbs. So lots and lots of speculation, misiformation and outright lies.
Today, with the evolved 2-stroke technology largely due the the engineering prowess of the Dutch enthusiasts, the most powerful 50cc are exceeding 25 HP, truly remarkable. And most "club racers" there own evolved variations of the Kreidler "van Veen" engines, and most exceed 20 HP with usable torque managed with only 6 gears.
Hats off to you Sir!
A pity Paul Klaver never had one on the brak. But I agree with you.
Respect to you sir...my Grandads brother raced the T.T between the first and second world wars, days of the Pioneers.
As I officially qualified as an 'Old Man' just six week ago, I really feel that your experience & know-how needs to be documented so the Wayback Machine can preserve your insight for eternity?
'Eternity' is a true descriptor:
As the only 'beings' (where are the rest?) in the whole universe, when we are gone, 'Eternity' ends...
We've already lost a vast catalogue of thoughts/memories/facts from WW1 with WW2 following suit.
Even if you simply go on a motorcycle forum and Type the WBM will do the rest. Thank you for your fascinating input.
BTW, this video deserves to be 'cast' to one's flatscreen TV. Try it!
16 horsepower from a 50cc engine is absolutely insane!, and those bicycle type brakes!, If I remember correctly they were almost exactly like a normal bicycle except they could fit 4 brake pads per brake caliper instead of 2.
320hp per litre, my Corolla sould have 576hp! hahaha. I have a 1981 CB50J, can confirm that those japanese 50cc feels like chinese 125cc
I think we are talking 2 stroke engines here.
@@DetroitMicroSound no easy but doable, easy for a gp team. These days 26hp at the crank is doable
It has more horse power than my 350 quad 😢
@@DetroitMicroSound sure but still took a gp team so not easy to the ave guy.
I have a Hercules K50 50cc bike from the 1960's, on paper it has a top speed of 85km/h but in reality it easily goes over 100km/h if everything is set up correctly. Very powerful engine, my father used it to build an enduro and won many races.
Bet that thing screamed!
I once made a bitsa, of a small lady moped frame, with a Minarelli motor, no lights, brakes front fender and a bicycle banana seat, and a 1 L castrol plastic oil container tied on as gas tank. And foot pegs. It could do 55 in 1. over 70 in 2, faster than Jens (millionare today) Jørgensen's Puch Grand Prix that could go about 85 in 3, and a hell of a lot faster i 4. Once, when I had 14 - 26 sprockets on it (only 26 I've ever seen for that one - usually it was 28, if it had a 7.5 hp set up - and the wind was really hard from west, I ran it out till I didn't dare any more, because I was afraid, the motor would sieze. I would love to have known, how fast it actually was in general, and that specific day, but when you're faster i 3. than anybody else, that just doesn't happen. The 55 i 1. I found out, when I had put brakes on it, and the gear box broke 2. and 3. so I had to be really mean to it, to get it from 1. to 4 gear.. What I would give to find one of those motors today, and see what I could make it do, with the knowledge I have now - back then I didn't have a clue, but I had time to experiment, and combined with it weighing "nothing, and me being a tiny dude helped some.. B)
@@bartmotorcycle I had a Honda Dream C77:
The metallurgy was just horrible, just like their crappy cars are, crappy studs, crappy bolts and crappy alloy parts.
There are two major issues with their design philosophy as to keep the weight down and to make it easier to machine they always use the softest alloys possible...
A 50 cc Enduro ? Wow that's a first for me would have liked to have been able to see it ✌️
@@fishfire_2999 Hercules (Germany) are always 2-strokes... Germans invented the 2-stroke exhaust-expansion-chamber, so that even 48,7hp with like 70-80cc become possible th-cam.com/video/bARcmJHuRAU/w-d-xo.html
In this video here, about Honda, engines are always 4-stroke...
The shot of two pistons and a crankshaft on a man's hand (5:55) shows how small this marvellous piece of engineering was!
🤯I didn’t realize this was in a hand 🖐
Not to brag, but I wonder if Mr Honda " borrowed " the multi tiny cylinders idea from us crazy BRITS. Example ... the Supercharged 1949 F1 BRM 1.5 litre V16, making 600hp@12,000rpm !!
@@arkhsm
If he did, he was a brave men, considering how well that BRM engine worked ;)
@@X8X8X8X8X8X8X8X8X8X I think it was both very advanced and complicated; with the ignition being the biggest issue. I'd love to see how it would perform with just a modern EFI system upgrade !!
@@arkhsm
I'd love to see that, too. Furthermore, I believe the BRM V16 is the best sounding engine of all time.
I saw the Honda 50 twin firsthand. In 1967, Canada celebrated its 100 birthday and all sorts of special events were held. One of these was the motorcycle GP at Mosport. The complete Honda factory team was there and I was able to wander into the pits (those were the days) and stand right behind the 50 twin as a mechanic warmed it up. He was casually blipping the throttle to 19,000 rpm and I thought that was the coolest thing a 19 year old motorcycle enthusiast could ever witness. What an engineering company!
I'll take high rev's over displacement or turbochargers any day and have owned a couple VTEC's and several Honda motorcycles since.
Yeah nowadays in motorbike racing especially World Superbikes they put limits on revs, though mainly Ducati's get the rev limiters because of their straight line speed, though that's the manufacturers making a race focused public bike so they can get a leg up on the comp, but I also like the high rev bikes and really miss the 2-strokes at race meetings, the sound and smell just gives you tingles.
Two strokes sound revvy but very few get above 10,000 rpm because the tuned pipe supercharging struggles above that speed. That’s why Honda made their small bikes rev so high.
I watched a 50cc race in the 1960s. All the bikes were crowded together in the corners and the sound was like a swarm of angry bees. You're absolutely right - great fun to watch. (However the most fun of all is watching the isle of Man T.T. Seeing a bike travelling at over 200mph on a (usually) 30mph road is a thrilling as it gets).
😂over the mountain long live the tt be there or b square
In the mid-sixties, Tomos made the D9 model, which had 9 gears, weighted only 39 kg, had a fiber-glass frame and reached 150 km/h.
Wasn't Tomos the company that made those god awful mopeds that were sold in littlewoods catalogues at the end of the 70's/ early 80's?
With 1 D rider sitting sideways to wind
@@slacko1971 huh idk here in the balkans they are very reliable
@@patrikarnic All depends on what you use as a comparison
@@slacko1971 Yes
I got my drivers license in 1965. I owned 4 Hondas before buying my first car. I knew a lot of Honda lore but this video is extremely informative and captures all the reasons I still ride. I've owned a BMW Boxer Cup Racer ( "prep bike" not a replica) since 2006. A few months ago I bought a 2010 Ducati 1198 S. Rode it today as a matter of fact. The passion never ceases -- it only gets better. Again -- good job!
Honda put two of these engines together added another cylinder to make a 5 cylinder in-line125cc, the RC149 and cleaned up in 1966. I had a "cut-away" poster on my bedroom wall in the early 70's of the 125.
Centre fold of MCN? You could tell the lads into bikes, their bedroom walls were covered in cut aways of various bikes and engines instead of the "normal" centrefold 😂.
I am not into motorcycles, but at Beaulieu national motor museum, a curator showed me one of these Hondas, worth £1m. The tiny valves. In real terms, what Honda achieved here, is one of the greatest engineering feats in history. He told me there were 8 of this bike made. So if someone offers you a tiny Honda, buy it. 6 were ‘lost’. 😳
Everyone at Honda today: No matter the division or job title can take pride in the accomplishments here. I grew up in the 60's watching this. THIS was what motorcycling meant to me. Some guy pushes you and your bike to get you going. You race. Hold that machine and you as ONE right on that razor's edge limit of both. Your supporting team love what they do and depend on you. They engineered it. Together, you all aim to make it even better. YES I RACED AMA! Bultaco. CZ. Penton. Jawa. Class B dinosaurs. That's where my heart is still. I watched the sad failures of the Maico gearbox. I watched cookie cutter Japanese pot metal bikes that will have no value the instant they leave the dealer lot take every trophy. I watched senior Bulto not pay his workers. Such changes. I had a neighbor that loved his combat wombat Hodaka. I had no clue what that was all about. Then I raced against Dick Mann with his 500cc rotax 4 cycle thumper and the wildest kid: Danny Chandler. I loved watching the 125cc class. They seemed to go faster. To this day I swear by a Bultaco frame geometry and powerband delivery of power for berm busting and powering out of the transition, building high revs for the straight. Bultaco's nature ...it's very SPIRIT had magic here. I think it does to this day. It takes the trophy for feeling best here. A bike has it's own personality. That lies in the alloy and temper and wall thickness and fabrication of it's frame, the geometry. the suspension, the way the power and torque are delivered to the tire and the surface you're on. Dirt seems to talk to a Bull.
Love it! Pushing small engines to the limit will always be the more approachable and understandable class.
OK, you love your little scooter. I-----don't get it. lol And I build small gas race engines for a living. (no kidding). I am just too heavy to ride some of them. Understand that. :)
@@EarthSurferUSA I weigh 150 so my tuned n tricked out 175 hit 112 going down a big ass hill on highway ten in Indiana
@@EarthSurferUSAHow do you not get it? Small thing going FAST I'd lots of fun for many. You ever heard of the phrase "It's more fun going fast on a slow bike than it is going slow on a fast bike"
Great vid , thank you. I started motorcycles in the 70's with a tiny CB160. It was so far ahead, engine part of the frame, long inlet carbs right off the IOM and twin leading shoe front brakes. Also, I could ride at night in the rain and count on getting back home without failing ignition and electrics. It was an exciting machine to ride and I fell in love with motorcycling.
I had a 1966 CB160. Super reliable. Rode it to 1970 . Wish I had kept it.
Mark Hill I had a 65 Honda 50 Scrambler blue broken shift Fork flat tire and I fixed it a whole bike for $15 I bought it for five bought a fork for five bought a book for five tore the whole thing apart as far as you can tear it apart nothing else to tear apart I'm on my 24th motorcycle I love motorcycles you had a cb160 those were pretty slow the Scrambler was better of the 160 but I had a 65 cl72 with a 337 kit I could not get off that bike I loved it so much motorcycles motorcycles I don't care how old they are or how barbaric I could take them all apart service in the frame or take the engine out and put it back in the crap nowadays has so much junk on it I'm afraid to take it apart
@@brantardrey7360 And so poorly constructed saw a Yamaha track bike break the handlebars when he dropped it on the dirt,I had a CD175 dropped it 8 times on tarmac and cost me nothing to repair nothing broke a Abrahams tank on two wheels better gas though 100mpg
I spent many hours as a child in Mike Halewood's Pits, and i can still remember the racket on my young ears.
Thanks for the video ,excellent content and presentation . You sure know your stuff . I` m a Brit of the Goldstar generation , and back in the day Honda blew our minds with their high revving race bikes ,every season a new masterpiece . Exciting times indeed .
Thanks!! I've got a video coming soon soon about the gold star soon so be on the lookout. Did you own one?
My uncle used to race a Kreidler 50cc in the late 70s and beginning 80s in Germany and Europe. Great that time. The latest 50cc race-bikes went over 200km/h and had 20 Horsepower!
I have been part of the team as a boy of 12.
What a time!
If I remember correctly, the Kreidler had a power-band that was only around 600rpm wide and a 12-speed gearbox to keep it in that band. I seem to remember that the New Zealand rider, Hughie Anderson rode for them at one stage at the Isle of Man (1960/1?), though his 50cc successes came a couple of years later with Suzuki.
Back in the early 70s a standard 50cc Suzuki could do 60 mph my vespa 50 would go 50 mph so yes s really souped up 50 could really move have you ever seen the Britten that is a bike with soul
how many pots did the 20hp kreidler have??
@@fidelcatsro6948 Just the one. See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_cc_Grand_Prix_motorcycle_racing
Kreidler van Veen
I knew nothing about motorcycles and I'm not sure how I ended up watching the video but man I loved it. That motorcycle was amazing. Well done.
I was on an airliner going from New York to Bahrain on an assignment. An onboard magazine showed the Honda CBX six cylinder. ''I'm going to get one of those some day''. In 1992 I saw a derelict 1979 CBX with a hole in the cases where a rod exited and bought the bike. That was my very first motorcycle engine overhaul. I replaced damaged parts, rebuilt it, and rode it another 25,000 miles with the ICOA CBX Club, and it's still in my garage along with 3 other CBX bikes. Note to self: This is not a beginner's engine to learn how to repair motorcycle engines. As an Engineer, I was blown away by the details and design work in that engine. It was astounding.
I loved working on 50 cc 2 stroke engines in my teen years, Yamaha, Kreidler, Zundapp, and even Mobylette, I could make them scream, compression, carburation, exhaust, timing and porting.
I saw some folks in Thailand and the Dominican Rep. racing some light weight low cc bikes! One of the best race experiences in my life
Thais have some of the coolest races on the planet. They race anything!
I remember the 50 cc bikes racing in the TT in the early 60s. On the climb up the Mountain speed was low but they made up on downhill stretches. Pity disc brakes were not around then.
In those days there was an Ultra-Lightweight 125 cc class and of course the biggest engines were 500 cc. It doesn't make sense to me why engine sizes have gone up so much today. The smaller engines provided much more entertainment without the crazy speeds now possible.
The thing about rim brakes is the massive mechanical advantage...HUGE difference in force applied, but parasitic loss of braking material was the downside.
@@imtheonevanhalen1557 those little brake stubs would run out so quick. Even the ones on my bycycle would go out in 2 months. Can't comprehend how these guys used them on motorcycles
@@imtheonevanhalen1557 totally agree the rim to rotor ratio means the rim is a huge rotor , pad material is the limit as you point out , they dont want a huge thick rim to cope with the friction its better to dump that energy into a rotor....i ride mtb trials , we have a rim brake that can basically crush a cheapo rim , 'Magura hs33 ' hydraulic rim brake , they are super loud on a clean rim...with ''roof tar crayon drawing'' a line round the rim they are strong enough to snap forks....rotors are a lever against the head tube tho , that low down work is more stress on the headtube vs a rim brake thats higher up obviously
Dutchies agree
@@TheCraigy83 i cant quite understand why racing bicycles have switched to disc brakes. are rim brakes not lighter for one ?
I've had many bikes, but one of the most FUN to ride is my 49cc HONDA MB5! A true legend, available in the U.S. for only one year (1982), and it cost $599 new! It didn't sell much, so these new bikes were discounted to $399 new by several dealers afterwards. 2-stroke, 7.1 HP, 5-speed 'screamer' that is a blast to ride, and turns heads everywhere I go! Hits 53 MPH too, which is more than enough in suburban or back roads! It looks like a mini-Ducati, and is built like a Panzer tank. One of the all time great 50cc class motorcycles ever built, and available to consumers. Ditto the Kawasaki AR50! These bikes are rare now, and i've heard stories of some being sold for $5000 dollars and up at auction! I don't even think Jay Leno has one in his collection.
The Honda RC116 is a minimalist masterpiece, worthy of the Museum of Modern Art.
Agreed!
Seen from a pure engineering point of view, Honda is the most impressive motorbike manufacturer of all times.
Not just motorcycles,their cars too. The engines they made back then were made to outlast the buyer lol.
the west has folks stopping efficient things , they want things to last a day past the warranty then explode .
@@Sarthak1710 It's great when a motor company is dominated by engineers, and not by accountants. This was the case with Mercedes up until the 90s, and they consistently made great cars that could last for a million kilometer if taken care of reasonably well.
🔥Little known fact : They used this same bore/stroke formula for a 5 cylinder 125cc race bike.
Hey good day, awesome excellent video very informative etc. am 66 years old, have had well over 100 motorcycles. And currently above that have a dozen or more primarily old 60s and 70s Hondas. A few other types. But as a kid riding Hondas and working on them For a dollar an hour in the motorcycle shop.,just saw unbelievable engineering that Hondas as well as other Japanese companies had. Love those Hondas and any other Japanese motorcycles. There are no bad motorcycles as you said. We used to put engines on bicycle frames with a V-belt Drive push start etc. no brakes. Very excited to have seen your video going to forward it to my son as well as I just subscribed to your channel. Look forward to more thank you so much stay well hope all of your subscribers as well as yourself,are safe and well and have a beautiful day. Jim
It still is incredible for what Honda managed to squeeze out of that little engine in the RC 116.
All credit to them, and may they keep up the challenge to produce even better machines. 🙂👍
This is an interesting, informative, well researched 'documentary' that conveyed the soul of motorcycles. Thank you!
This video maker should try out a Royal Enfield and an older Moto Guzzi. Both great bikes with plenty of that Soul Factor.
Thanks for a great, very well researched video. I'm 61 and had bikes since my first in 1976, a Gilera RS50. I had a Kawasaki S1C, it was a complete pain in the ass, but when it was running properly it was absolutely glorious. You never knew if it would bog down, wheelie or throw you off on the next corner.
Great video. Thank you. Yes, the bikes of fifty years ago inspired me as a kid, and I keep looking for something to stir me up like my first close inspection of a pack of CB750-Fours when they were new. I was waaaaay ourt in west Texas on a Boy Scout trip, 12 years old, hopped out of the van and boom! Four CB's parked beside us and I realized that they rode a zillion miles to get to Big Bend National Park. At that moment I became a motorcyclist, and six years later at age 18 I bought my very first bike - a one year old used sulfur yellow GL-1000 with the Vetter fairing. It is a high point of my life, and this very day I have a restored and beautiful 78 GL in storage ( I moved), with the battery on a trickle charger on the floor of my bedroom as I type this. Honda made my life better.
My Blata W50 has like 16.3hp to the rear, euro pocket bike 50cc. Insane how they were able to make a 50cc in the 60s produce as much hp as a modern minimoto!
Way back in the mid 60's Honda actually made a 4 cylinder 50 cc race engine that rev-ed so high it was beyond the normal hearing range of the human ear. I don't remember the HP it produced but the valves were the size of shirt buttons. Nothing came of it as Honda as they were winning everything with the twin and the other coopetition left the 50cc racing scene.
I remember a five cylinder 50 I believe or it was some kind of strange displacement I was thinking it was a 50 and I know you are right about either a four or a five cylinder 50 with automatic inlet valve
I bought an old 1966 Honda 50 back in the early 80's. In appearance it looked almost identical to most of the various Mopeds that were out at the time. Including the Honda Passport. But on closer inspection you found it had a much heavier frame than the Mopeds did. In use, it had no trouble at all reaching and holding 55 mph+. 3 spd semi-auto trans (no manual clutch).
Hey Great job Bart !!. You do these vids so well !!. Me and the gang thank you !!!
Hey Bart! You are the only youtuber that talks about stuff like this. This is the stuff that makes motorcycles interesting, not the buy a new one and not know a thing about bikes. I worked at a Honda dealer in the 70's that had a bike that looked similar to the 50cc you show, but it was 125cc and had the red tank and silver fairing. I may be a little older, but I was into bikes, so I paid a lot of attention to stuff, and I swear that it was a 125cc 2 stroke engine that powered that bike. Unusual, I know, and maybe it was a Frankenbike of some sort?! Keep up the good work!
As perhaps already stated, the Kreidler 50cc factory roadracer was up at 20-22 hp when 50cc ended as GP class in 1983. Insane.....
Also quite amazing were the 125 RS Honda two stroke singles which were over the 40 bhp mark by the time they stopped using them in competition.
Great video man, really enjoyed it, i never realised the 50cc racer was a twin, i always thought it was a single. Awesome history lesson, and you are right, new bikes have no soul, unless they are retro bikes.
I enjoy your videos. Very nostalgic for me. I spent 10 years in the Japanese motorcycle industry working in dealerships. I never intended to work on them and didn't even know how to ride one when I started in the early 70's. But I sort of got sucked into it and turned out to be very good at it. It didn't pay much and that made it hard to support a family but I enjoyed it so much it made it hard to leave.
Wow! I really enjoyed this video.
Content that comes from someone who is truly passionate and also capable of producing an informative video that takes the viewer on a journey, seems to be rare. Keep up the good work! Im not so much into bikes but I love your style, I will wacht more for sure.
The number of gears was because the more you tune for peak power the narrower the effective power band becomes. Each gear change has to ensure that the engine doesn’t fall out of its powerband. So as engines got more extreme they needed more gears.
Very true
makes sense the record speed for a fifty today is close to 150mph but that runs on methanol that truly is insane
I've always been more drawn to smaller capacity motorcycle and Honda was king in that regard. At least for a short period of time. So I'm glad you did a video about it.
I'm not really worried about modern bikes lack of passion or being a born in a boardroom like Ryan from fortnine would describe some modern Hondas. I think creativity often comes from limitations, and making the fastest motorcycle out of 50cc of displacement is just one example of that.
The Honda Cub idea was to by build a motorcycle as cheaply and reliably as possible and despite being the most produced vehicle ever it still became an icon and an enjoyable ride.
I know someone who collects bikes, and he actually has a mint condition, red HONDA MB5 sitting on a pedestal, as the center piece of his living room decor! He drained all the fluids, had it waxed and detailed to showroom condition, and placed it there to show his love for motorcycling! He has 48 bikes in his vast collection, and he chose the gorgeous looking MB5! Takes all kinds, I guess!
The summation at the end is gold.
We don't want boring motorcycles.
The reason these tiny engines were used with so many gears was because they had such finely optimised intake, exhaust, and other tuning that they would have power bands only a few hundred rpm wide with nothing below or above.
A big part of Honda focussing on the 50cc class might have been because that was one of their biggest sellers, with the basic cub being 50cc (I even had a pushrod 50cc version at one stage - a VERY early model as I believe most were OHC) - an oriental version of "win on Sunday, sell on Monday".
I have pushrod 50 and a pushrod 90 and I believe they were Superior than didn't have such a long cam chain to wear and that 90 ca200 it would run
@@ronalddaub7965
Cubs? Very 😎👍 - I'm rather envious! 😢
@@ronalddaub7965 My father over head cam was "shaft driven"
I love how this topic turned up after I've decided to mimic this bike as my next project. If you went to this years 1 show, i had the grey supercub, the stretched and widened one, and after seeing the s90 on with the grom motor, it inspired me to turn my s90 into one of these machines (in a manner of speaking) looks wise of course, don't think i have the capability to recreate a 50cc twin motor
Damn I should have went to the 1 show! But that sounds like a cool project
I rode a CB 450 in 1966 or 1967. I'd been on many English bikes, like the Tiger, Bantam, BSA, Velocette, AJS etc. On the CB 450, I was astonished at the level of sophistication, that was a world apart from the English bikes. The 450 CB felt _faster_ than a Triumph Bonneville, yet had 200ccs less. The engine was so smooth. The CB felt like a different _thing_ rather than just a more modern bike. I realised the challenges the British bike industry faced.
Recently, my son bought a KIA Stinger. I thought it was silly, because I assumed KIA was rubbish - until I drove it. It was remarkably good and superb to drive. Later that day I drove BMW 850i or M850 (cant remember the exact one). It cost $AUD300,000 and the KIA was AUD$69,000. They felt almost identical. Again, I got out of the BMW and thought that it had better get its act together or KIA will do to European cars what Honda did to British bikes.
Thank you for that !!! As the ex owner of a 50cc sport roadster of the 60's, that bike gave me more pleasure and more thrills than all the other far faster and far bigger bikes I owned.
There are very few, if any places on public roads that you can ride a motorcycle to it's absolute limits, while still keeping your licence but you can on a 50. ........ The bike I owned ? a 1965 MKVIII Competition Itom ..... and boy, how much I regret parting with it
Small capacity engine that revs to 20,000+RPM, sounds like the inline 4 CBR250's from the 80's & 90's. It may have taken Honda 20 years, but I'm glad that they could finally apply the knowledge gained from the DC116 into a fun little sport bike for the road.
That engineering goes full circle too, some replica bikes have been made with CBR250 engines, and with the same 4-4 exhaust setup, they sound period correct too!
th-cam.com/video/WrExjuHnaVY/w-d-xo.html
I had the 250 hurricane. Japanese race bike. It was ordered secondhand a.pre raced bike. Was a little screamer. I called it a sewing machine on steroids 😂 sadly it got stolen I still miss it heaps. Only a few were sent to Australia it's now a rare bike worth a bit of money. I paid $1200 with low ks
@@tonymarshall9670 They actually got sold there officially, at least the 250RR did. If you are in the U.S., expect to pay $6000 or more. I found mine in Canada for a relatively cheap $2500, then had to drive 2000 miles round trip to get it.
@@Daschickenify yes they were a dime a dozen but to my knowledge the hurricane wasn't sold here. I know it was imported here (Australia) by a private buyer. I never seen another one here. It was a factory race team bike. It had 20,000 KS raced on it when it arrived. If you have the rr. A friend had one he cut one of the wires in the ignition. I think he said a yellow one and that removed the rev limiter in them. I rode his it made first gear peak out rather well.
@@tonymarshall9670 Yeah only the MC22 250RR from the 90's was sold directly in Aus
You see plenty of the MC19 250Rs that were imported before the 250RR was sold officially (I actually own an '89 250R), basically all of them having aftermarket Fireblade branded fairings instead of Hurricane
But going back to the MC17 250R, those are very hard to find by comparison. I've only seen one for sale and was half tempted to buy it just because nobody really knows about them compared to the others but already had my MC19 and couldn't justify buying basically the same bike.
The most fun I've had on two wheels was on a 50cc.
Bigger ain't always better!
Good video. Thank you for posting😊 👍 The explanations are interesting to listen to. Looking forward for more videos for 50cc classic racing.
Last year I got my first motorcycle. I chose an old Daelim Daystar VL125 with a carburetor, since I also percieve these old vehicles as having "more soul", aswell as having their own temperament, varying even between multiple samples of the same model. Since I like to tinker with my stuff, that's fine for me.
One of the first adjustments I did was cleaning the carb, making the air/fuel mixture richer and recalibrating the pilot screw&throttle stop. It now works like a charm and is very comfy. The engine it uses is a single cylinder Honda 4-stroke btw.
I can’t say he’s right about watching which races are more fun but thrashing a smaller displacement bike through the twisters is altogether more fun than doing it on a Goldwing.
But thats a armchair
I still love my honda cb 50. As a 15 yo you can ride it here in germany on the road. Its 4stroke 4 gear foot shift and goes about 50kmh. Sat for over 30 yrs when i got it and ran with a carb clean and new spark system. Completely redone the electric stuff and made it a cafe racer
Well done
You can actually make it go at a 100 kmh
I've had friends that changed the exhaust and some other things and managed to do so with their 49 bikes
@@ServeraServera0 of course, you can always go faster but it would be very illegal to do so here and thats just not worth it to me with that bike
@@jonnyjones7689 I don't know if vehicle laws are the same on Germany and my country that is on Europe but you just remove the limiters or whatever they are called on english and that is it
But with a bike that old, you're right, you better don't do anything to it
@@ServeraServera0 This expansion nonsense i had a 1975 Suzuki GT550 two stroke triple with standard pipes and beat a 1977 with expansions,What a waste of money just made a different noise
amazing video - loved the commentary and takes
My Uncle, Jim Pink, raced on these at IOM TT, believe he was on of the first Motor Cycle dealers to import Honda bikes into UK. Unfortunately he passed away (at a good age) before I knew about the history.
Great video.. much enjoyed!
A lot of people don’t get it about the smaller cc bikes.. so much fun keeping them on cam etc.. glad you showed Honda s 500/800 car it was a big part of Honda history. All the best keep up the great videos👍
I remember reading about this bike in a magazine around 1963 or 64.....incredible
It was built in 1966, so please reset your memory clendar.
Oh wow, funny when you suddenly mentioned Bob Lanphere's in Beaverton, been there many times and spent a lot of time looking at the vintage bikes as well. Cool that you're from here.
Great video and brought back so many memories.
I had a Honda SS50, which in the early 80s was still one of the fastest 50cc bikes you could ride , though my mates FS1E was faster, he usually blew a ring at least once a week. I thrashed it like any 16 year old would, and it never let me down. One way to gain brand loyalty, still ride a honda 40 years later.
Me too... still got it in the shed
I was unbeaten on my 1973 SS50Z. No FS1 or AC50 could beat me, even though at 16 I weighed 180lbs and was over 6ft.
Just discovered your videos and love them! Loved it even more because I actually just got my first bike at that place in Beaverton! Every time I go in I always look up at the beautiful collection of old bikes!
What did you get??!
@@bartmotorcycle I got a Honda CBR300R! Love it so far!!
There’s some beautiful old bikes hanging up at my local dealer. Hillsboro Motorsport in OR. Small but awesome to see the history! Thank you for the content!
Excellent video. Informative, enthusiastic and well.presented.
Having a small one that performs really well is a good feeling ....
That's what I tell the wife too 😉
How do you know that she didn't try on, bigger bike?just joking, your comment is very funny.
Saw those 50cc GP Machines in action at UK's Brands Hatch Circuit in the mid-1960s. A large field of them in an International meeting on the GP circuit. When out of sight on the far side of the circuit unseen because of the dense woodland which is a feature of Brands Hatch, it sounded like a swarm of Hornets approaching from a distance. Phenomenal performance from a lawn mower engine!
Agreed. The best races are on the local short tracks with many passes in the field.
Especially while being there.
At the big tracks, part of one corner, a straight, part of another corner, and far away, is seen.
Road race courses are great to see, but again, a lot of the race isn't seen on many courses.
But, they're all great.
This guy is a real enthusiast, great to watch and listen.
As usual, great video. Those skinny little tires look just plain *_scary!_* If nothing else, you can imagine blowouts or losing traction around even modest turns. But they held up fine! __ BTW: You need to do an in-depth look at the Honda DOHC 450, please!
Wow... that’s would be extreme even to today’s standards .... I remember in the early 80’s it was relatively easy to achieve 70-80 mph on a 50cc, to go faster then it was a completely different ballgame, getting close to 100 mph was diminished returns territory, 118 mph 20 years earlier is mind blowing.
Can you give exaple please? I had Suzuki TS125ER derestricted early 80s and it would only do about 70mph.
@@yingt3132 Malagutti 50cc, Beta 50cc, Malanca 50cc and others, all 2 strokes; they were fitted by a he manufacturer with a 14/12 carburettor and box standard exhaust, all you had to do was to fit a 19/19 carburettor, fit a bigger collector and fit an expansion exhaust to easily do 70 mph, to go further you needed to first enlarge the cylinder intake ports and then smooth all the corners, next was lightening the gear cogs and changing the transmission ratio....
I remember a friend that managed to get a Vespa PX125 to do 100+ mph, but it was too dangerous as it was starting to airlift...
My first job after leaving school was as a motorcycle mechanic and I immediately bought a FS1E-DX. I got on well with the Yamaha rep and he supplied me with a set of blueprints for porting the engine and disk valve. Wow that little bike moved, it would go straight up to 70mph and with a little effort would make 77-78mph, both on the speedo and confirmed by another bike alongside. With a fairing and little less weight I'm sure that 85 would have been achievable. Good days for a 16 year old.
@@yingt3132 Your right it's all macho bullshit,The Garelli 50cc and the Yamaha FS1E(Fizzy)claimed 50mph at 14,000 rpm, 125cc could manage 85mph but only a few Aprilia was one but claims of 110mph is Macho BS, I had a Suzuki GT550 two stroke triple that could do 95mph in 15 seconds but could only reach 110mph/115mph flat out from a 550cc two stroke
just found this channel - dude, great job!
I remember when I first saw the Honda Goldwing in 77. I was 16 and it left an impression on me like no other bike. I now have an 85 1200 Aspencade
At the same time, Honda also had a five-cylinder 125 that revved to 18,000 rpm
And a 250cc inline four 22,000rpm
And at the other end my Suzuki GT550 two stroke triple rev at 8,000 was quicker than the Honda CB550 inline 4, Rev at 10,000
Great video. You are dead right about most modern bikes compared with 1960' /70/80 motorcycles. Also repair was simple compared with a lot of the so called modern manufacturers with their dealer only locked ECU firmware for the controlling the fuel injection engine-timing, brakes etc 🙂
This right here. Facts. That's why the last four motorcycles I purchased have been from the early 2000s. Insane power, unlocked/tuneable ECU, none of the little helper AIDS these riders have nowadays. Yeah I get it you got over 200 horsepower so you need it. Nothing beats feeling the tire slip out of necessity. No aids except your wrist and that mind-ass connection.
You are right, old bikes have history. Like mine RC24, CB750Boll D'or, VTR1000SP2 ! Three classic superbikes !
Back in the day,
Cycle World reported 20+ HP at "over" 20,000 rpm.
A 90MPH lap at The IOM TT, by a 90lb. rider.
I began following the TT in 1964.
R&T's issue on Sir john Surtees move to Ferrari.
Description side bar of his MV Agusta 500 4....
And a history of the IOM-TT
Same time Cycle World Road Tested
the brand new Honda CB77 305cc Super Hawk
27HP at 9000 rpm, 107 mph...
ALL above from my memory.
I rode from 1966 ($50 1956 HD 165cc Hummer)
to
1976 ( $400 1967 Aermacchi H-D 250cc Sprint)
440cc Indian, 500cc NSU, Flat Head 55 Sportster, and 250 Ducati Diana bikes in between
Oh, and a borrowed SEARS Gilera 124GT.... work bike!
Tampa Bay area.
Ride Safely!
J.C.
Age 72
Back in the late 70’s I participated in AFM road racing up and down California. I rode a competitive 125cc Yamaha twin in the 125 Production Class. I thought I was pretty fast until one race I was lapped by a 50cc Grand Prix Class bike! 😂
I might have seen you at Riverside in the late70s. Spectated at one AFM race there in the70s, and one in 1987. In the first one, I almost drove through the tunnel with a 1966 VW Westfalia with the top up. I remember a B50 and a Trident going very well. In 1987, I saw Fred Eiker win the final race of the season and the Heavyweight Twins championship on his 1974 Norton. Fred could ride. I think a Guzzi shop sponsored him the next year. Fun to see a Commando beating up on the much newer Ducatis. Fred also won overall in the fall 1987 La Carrera race from San Filepe to Ensenada, averaging like 113 mph. 4 bikes averaged over 100 mph. Two of those were Nortons. One was Nick Inatch on a Joe Minton Cycle Magazine Sportster project (100 hp) One was a Ducati F1 Laguna seca as I recall. I rode my street Commando there, raced it, and rode it home.
@@paulblouin6955 great memories! I really loved the Riverside and Ontario tracks. So sad they are gone. The Norton Commando was formidable bike. It was fun to see how a number of European bikes were able to outperform the hot new offerings from Japan. Street legal R75/5 BMWs gave a TZ750 factory road racer a hard time at Aspen in 1973 as they handled so much better in the tight turns. The Aspen track was a lot of fun. I rode an RD350 from Boulder, CO to Aspen, raced for two days and then rode home.
@@worldwyn the Aspen race looked like a hoot. Did some touring on an Rd400 in the Rockies in 77 and 78 vacations. Lived in Denver. Stopped and ate at some pub leading up to a 12000 or so foot pass. Some Harley guy told me a 400 wouldn't make it. Didn't wave when I passed.
@@worldwyn e
I had Honda CD175 not fast but faster than a 50cc until a "puch maxi" moped beat me from the lights and maintained a good distance,Apparently a 80cc big bore kit,Downside knocked out the main bearings
The Van Veen Kriedler 50cc racer of 1974 weighed 54Kg, it produced 20 hp @16000 rpm and it had a top speed of 202 kph (125.51 mph).
I guess that was a two stroke though?
My brother gave me his 5 year old 125 cc honda street bike. That bike is sold in Indian market mainly for city/commute rides. I have been able to tighten it up a little, change of sprocket here, a tyre change there and now I have a bike that has taken me on big road trips. Im talking 800 km in 2 days on a bike that barely goes 3 digits in kmph on a good day. The reliability of now 6 year old bike and its engine is amazing. I think about buying a new bike but the only thing thats stopping me is this bike. Ever since Ive had this bike, Ive never felt the need to *own* another one. I mean, it does all I ask it to do, and I ask a lot from it. I ride 1500 km a month on an average and this bike takes it all like a champ. In the traffic of India, having a bike bigger and consequently heavier than this, is a pain in the rear. Whenever I get bored, I rent sport bikes, take short rides like 200 km or so and the next day Im back on my bike, Im almost relieved to be in the comfort zone. I have found my peace with bikes. For me, 11 hp is plenty for me. Also I only have to spend half the money on petrol and other maintenance on my bike and thats just not something I want to give up. I do half of the maintenance on my own. If I owned a sports bike with full fairings, itd take me a day just to get them off. Honda bikes have been in my family since the 90s. I have worked on them with my dad ever since I was a kid. I learnt to ride on one. I understand my bike and in a way, it understands me. Its a connection that I cant explain very well but its there. And thats something I dont think a lot of european competitors understand.
I really enjoyed your vlog fascinating subject I remember seeing this class at the road racing at Scarborough when I was a young man 👍👍👍I still love the smaller classes in racing to this day 😄
Check the kreidlers…….
"motorcycles are inherently sensless forms of transport" ... I couldn't disagree more. Maybe in the USA and Canada where the road design and traffic laws are insane, but not in the rest of the world.
I think its mostly weather, doesnt make sense where theres a lot of ice and rain
Yeah I also meant the overall risk of a motorcycle compared to a car. They're not cheaper, they don't get that much better gas mileage as a whole. Now you are right though, this is mainly in the west, in places like India a little motorbike makes all sorts of sense
@@bartmotorcycle not sure what you mean. I'd be interested to know where I can get a car that does 50/60mpg, costs $7k brand new, and still performs like a sports car.
Plus, saving anywhere between 30 to 60 minutes on a high congestion commute has a lot of value.
I get the comment about ice, if the roads aren't treated, but rainproof kit is surprisingly cheap and accessible these days.
I very much get the safety aspect, especially for badly designed roads where it also impacts all other non car traffic. I was driving in Florida a few weeks ago, and I'd hate to try and cross one of those 7+ lane strip mall monster roads on a push bike!
@@bytesandbikes So in terms of practicality having it perform like a sports car isn't really necessary. Motorcycles are cheaper new for sure, but used cars aren't really any more expensive than used motorcycles. You can't pick up a decent used motorcycle here in the states for any less than 3k, and that's about the same for cars. No filtering or lane splitting in most of the US also, again you're first comment was right, here in the states its just not that practical. Motorcycles are toys here for the most part
@@bartmotorcycle Good points. In the UK you can usually pick up sub 500cc bikes for around $400, but they won't be pristine by a long way.
There's probably an unfortunate reinforcement cycle: motorcycles seen as toys, so not considered in town planning and legislation, relegating them to remain toys.
In most of Europe, motorbikes have been seen as poor-mans commuter machines... I think since the post WWII reconstruction period, and especially as you can ride solo without needing a driver's licence with just a one day course. Loads of teenagers going to their first job, or doing food deliveries on 125s here in the UK.
They were lapping the IOM at over 85 mph. Over 20,000 RPM and would cut out at under 10,000 RPM. And the sound was out of this world.
Great video! Wow I love Bob Lanpheres in Beaverton, The parts dept helped me source a set of whitewall tires for my SL 350😎
Avrage 50cc moped in finland
underrated comment 😂😂
I couldn't agree more that some motorcycles have become completely boring, the 250s and 400s of the 1980s and 90s were far more exciting than their modern counterparts and were also more powerful and faster, back then every Japanese manufacturer made a 400/4 producing 60 t0 65 bhp and the little Aprilia RS250 I owned was tested by MCN at 137mph and would blow away any of todays 250/400s, the one class that's exciting today is the naked middleweights were you've got bikes such as Yamahas MT-09 ,KTMs 890R ,Ducatis 937 Monster and the Triumph street triple RS.
Yup, years ago I got 140mph out of my grey import NC21 VFR400...which was 26 years old at the time. Bonkers.
in my opinion best race bike ever was the honda 297cc 6 cylinder,i watched em take the tarps off them at oulton park,they were flew in from japan especilly for that meeting,perfection.
I’m an old guy and I remember (some of) the’60’s races. I was a motorcycle salesman, late’60’s early’70’s. First M/C was a Honda 305 Super Hawk. I eventually had clip-ons, rear sets, factory single seat and a faring. Thought I was it! Yamaha hired Dave Ekins (brother of Bud Ekins, who did Steve McQueen’s stunts in the Great Escape) and Jack Chrisman(developer of the Chrisman Spark Arrestor) to modify their 250 cc street bike to compete in the Greenhorn Enduro(So Cal race). They owned the M/C shop(Valley Triumph)next to the Yamaha shop I worked @ and I asked them to make a third model. So I had a “One Off” for a little while.
I am an old M/C racer and my first bike was a 1965 Honda 305 Super Hawk. That bike was like a 2 wheel race car with O/H cam and rev's up to 9,000 rpm. I later got interested in dirt bikes so I had a 350cc Ducati Scrambler and raced motocross and TT dirt tracks. Lots of fun trail riding with friends on that bike. In 1976 I got a 250cc Penton and I was hooked on Enduro and Hare Scrambles races. I kept the Ducati & Penton until I got too old to risk a crash but I still ride fire roads on my Yamaha SR-500 which although heavy handles great on the street and in the dirt.
Amazing video!! Good job fr! :D
great video, enjoyed your passion.
Exciting races? The UK, Middlesborough and the Langbargh Racetrack. It was the 1990s. That track at the time was short and with a lot of twists and turns. I'd visited on a random weekend for a day out.
The race was a 250 one. Just about every bike was a Yamaha RD 250lc or perhaps a Suzuki watercooled 2T bike. There was one exception: A random CZ 250. An air cooled single cylinder 2T bike from Eastern Europe.
The race began and oh how the crowd laughed at that weird CZ bike. Within one lap the crowd was silent. That CZ ate up and destroyed every other bike. Corner after corner it chewed the most race bred machines until they were left in its wake. The CZ had half the hp of the rest but had heaps of torque - so much torque that exiting corners they were always at peak torque. The rider used that bike beautifully.
As the CZ crossed the finishing line I was the only person cheering. The crowd had been made to eat their hats and it showed.
Never ever think that something cannot be done.
Absolute geniuses. I spent a while reading up on the Honda RC166 and RC174 a couple of weeks ago. It's almost unbelievable how they made machines like these
My Grandfather has built a few reps of the Ralph Brian's bikes. Must say they are some of my favourite bikes to look at and the noise and smell is amazing.
Thank you very much for your very detailed info-clip - take care!
Awesome! I agree with your analogy that the older bikes have more class, more soul!
I wish you would do a homage video to the Super Cub. I may be biased as I have one of the 2021 models, but any bike that has sold 110 million over sixty years has to be noteworthy.
Another great and informative video!
Great video, can feel your passion for bikes
Great vlog. I saw the 50cc Honda's at the 1967 Diamond Jubilee Isle of Man T.T.
Deafening!!
The 50cc and 125cc were fun in tightish circuits.