What are the human sacrifices of mining Cobalt & are LFP batteries better & what cars now have the LFP these newer batteries (The lithium iron phosphate battery LFP battery)
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Thanks for this. My car (going on five years old) has NMC batteries. There really was no choice at the time of purchase and I made the decision based on three criteria (1) The problem is short-term as technology and the searchlight of publicity force changes to production methods (2) The cobalt in the battery will be recycled at the end of the vehicle's life (around 150k miles or 15 years) (3) The issue is, in truth, small beer, when set against the multitude of those of fossil fuel 'mining' (e.g. south of Nigeria - displacement of human populations and despoiling of environments), refining (e.g.use of cobalt with methane release etc in the processes) and burning in transport, heating and industrial processes (e.g. the planet is becoming unfit to support life as we know it). There is no perfect solution and I am sure LFP will be found to have some 'terrible' aspect to its incorporation in EVs as the fossil fuel fossils desperately seek to throw as much disinformation as they can find.
Also cobalt ON a car. It is one of the more common additives used in some zinc based plated coatings because it significantly improves the rust protection. The amount is tiny, but it is there. These also tend to include fluorides. There are alternatives, but these too have their issues. A bit of a techie subject but if you want to know about this search “ cobalt passivates “. It’s quite likely people criticising EVs drive round in cars protected from rust by cobalt. Oh the irony.
@ Companies can do due diligence on their supply chain and source. We have to do it for the cobalt we source and yes it costs us extra. It’s known as the Responsible Minerals Initiative and covers more than just cobalt, especially the TTTG group (Tin Tantalum Tungsten and Gold), all of which are subject to the same abuses that have been associated with some mining of cobalt. If you have an issue with cobalt, you need to have an issue with those metals as well.
@@javelinXH992 Agree, it should be regulated and standards upheld. But seems they are not - scaling up mining is slow and expensive process - and should be done properly. But - seems like it's not, is it?
@ It’s a constant fight for the right thing. Nobody of note in the West even knew about these child miners until EVs came along. But they were always there, unnoticed. Now the spotlight has been on it, something has started to be done, but it needs to be seen right through to the end. For example, there has been talk of a cobalt tax. The money from this and other schemes goes to putting the children in school and paying the parents more for doing that than if they go hunting rocks. These countries are so poor that it is not very costly to implement this. The real issue is corruption at government and business level, combined with heavy warlord influences.
I got an LFP MG4 when it first came out here over 2 years ago and when I decided to get a Model Y towards the end of last year I agenized a lot about whether I should get the long range NMC or go for another LFP but in the end stuck to the LFP for the Model Y. The LFP chargers slower and you need a few more charging stops but I knew that in reality that wasn't an issue as 90% of the time you are charging at home. My only worry is how it will perform in low temperatures on road trips but will find out soon as off down to French ski resorts. When picking a car most people think they must have a vehicle that will do everything all of the time but in reality you should get a car that you may have to compromise some of the time, so for my once a year trip to the Alps it's a bit of a compromise but a lot cheaper and you don't have the worry about the cobalt.
Pre-heating is the key with LFP when using it cold weather that's why I now have the model Y as it does it all for you. To do it on MG4 I either had to stop or get the passenger to set it on as navigating through the menus on MG4 is not easy
The main disadvantage of a LFP battery is lower energy density and consequently are heavier to achieve the mileage range of an equivalent NMC battery. This make EVs considerably heavier than ICE vehicles. When a LFP does experience thermal runaway one of the main combustion products is a toxic gas hydrogen fluoride, which when combine with water produces hydrofluoric acid, which is detrimental to the local environment. A burning EV is very difficult to extinguish and has a high thermal temperature. A burning ICE vehicle is much easier to put out. So what is the justification for owning an EV?
I have model 3 RWD with LFP battery. The model 3 duel motor and long range use a battery with cobalt due to need for more power density. All 3 use same size battery cutting production cost. LFP batteries are slower to charge 175 kwh compared to cobalt 250 kwh. Do the ICE boys know cobalt is use in the Petrol and Diesel refining process as a catalyst. Most new EVs don't use cobalt in batteries due high costs , more than can be said for oil refining. I think in next few year EV will have no need for cobalt.
Also cobalt ON a car. It is one of the more common additives used in some zinc based plated coatings because it significantly improves the rust protection. The amount is tiny, but it is there. These also tend to include fluorides. There are alternatives, but these too have their issues. A bit of a techie subject but if you want to know about this search “ cobalt passivates “. It’s quite likely people criticising EVs drive round in cars protected from rust by cobalt. Oh the irony.
Hello if you would like to buy Jen & me a coffee please use the link thank you
buymeacoffee.com/NigelJen
Also Tesla referral link for £500 or $500 off a new Tesla. Thanks ts.la/nigel30772
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Thanks for this. My car (going on five years old) has NMC batteries. There really was no choice at the time of purchase and I made the decision based on three criteria (1) The problem is short-term as technology and the searchlight of publicity force changes to production methods (2) The cobalt in the battery will be recycled at the end of the vehicle's life (around 150k miles or 15 years) (3) The issue is, in truth, small beer, when set against the multitude of those of fossil fuel 'mining' (e.g. south of Nigeria - displacement of human populations and despoiling of environments), refining (e.g.use of cobalt with methane release etc in the processes) and burning in transport, heating and industrial processes (e.g. the planet is becoming unfit to support life as we know it). There is no perfect solution and I am sure LFP will be found to have some 'terrible' aspect to its incorporation in EVs as the fossil fuel fossils desperately seek to throw as much disinformation as they can find.
Thanks Paul
Great comment
Thanks for watching
Also cobalt ON a car. It is one of the more common additives used in some zinc based plated coatings because it significantly improves the rust protection. The amount is tiny, but it is there. These also tend to include fluorides. There are alternatives, but these too have their issues.
A bit of a techie subject but if you want to know about this search “ cobalt passivates “.
It’s quite likely people criticising EVs drive round in cars protected from rust by cobalt. Oh the irony.
Production of cobalt tripled since 2010 - and demand is higher than capabilities - thats why the kids are mining it now - just for your ev.
@ Companies can do due diligence on their supply chain and source. We have to do it for the cobalt we source and yes it costs us extra.
It’s known as the Responsible Minerals Initiative and covers more than just cobalt, especially the TTTG group (Tin Tantalum Tungsten and Gold), all of which are subject to the same abuses that have been associated with some mining of cobalt. If you have an issue with cobalt, you need to have an issue with those metals as well.
@@javelinXH992 Agree, it should be regulated and standards upheld. But seems they are not - scaling up mining is slow and expensive process - and should be done properly. But - seems like it's not, is it?
@ It’s a constant fight for the right thing.
Nobody of note in the West even knew about these child miners until EVs came along. But they were always there, unnoticed. Now the spotlight has been on it, something has started to be done, but it needs to be seen right through to the end.
For example, there has been talk of a cobalt tax. The money from this and other schemes goes to putting the children in school and paying the parents more for doing that than if they go hunting rocks. These countries are so poor that it is not very costly to implement this. The real issue is corruption at government and business level, combined with heavy warlord influences.
The Cobalt Institute has a great online report on detailed usage, supply etc. pdf available. Surprising high battery usage for portables.
Thanks for the information & watching
I got an LFP MG4 when it first came out here over 2 years ago and when I decided to get a Model Y towards the end of last year I agenized a lot about whether I should get the long range NMC or go for another LFP but in the end stuck to the LFP for the Model Y. The LFP chargers slower and you need a few more charging stops but I knew that in reality that wasn't an issue as 90% of the time you are charging at home. My only worry is how it will perform in low temperatures on road trips but will find out soon as off down to French ski resorts. When picking a car most people think they must have a vehicle that will do everything all of the time but in reality you should get a car that you may have to compromise some of the time, so for my once a year trip to the Alps it's a bit of a compromise but a lot cheaper and you don't have the worry about the cobalt.
Preconditioning LFP batteries is key to its performance and longevity
If you use the Tesla routing to a charger it will pre-heat the batteries to optimise the charging.
Pre-heating is the key with LFP when using it cold weather that's why I now have the model Y as it does it all for you. To do it on MG4 I either had to stop or get the passenger to set it on as navigating through the menus on MG4 is not easy
@@terrymackenzie6784 great comment thanks for watching
The Cobalt institute do a great report online.
Thanks for watching & sharing
The main disadvantage of a LFP battery is lower energy density and consequently are heavier to achieve the mileage range of an equivalent NMC battery. This make EVs considerably heavier than ICE vehicles. When a LFP does experience thermal runaway one of the main combustion products is a toxic gas hydrogen fluoride, which when combine with water produces hydrofluoric acid, which is detrimental to the local environment. A burning EV is very difficult to extinguish and has a high thermal temperature. A burning ICE vehicle is much easier to put out. So what is the justification for owning an EV?
I have model 3 RWD with LFP battery. The model 3 duel motor and long range use a battery with cobalt due to need for more power density. All 3 use same size battery cutting production cost. LFP batteries are slower to charge 175 kwh compared to cobalt 250 kwh. Do the ICE boys know cobalt is use in the Petrol and Diesel refining process as a catalyst. Most new EVs don't use cobalt in batteries due high costs , more than can be said for oil refining. I think in next few year EV will have no need for cobalt.
Great point
Thanks for watching & sharing
Also cobalt ON a car. It is one of the more common additives used in some zinc based plated coatings because it significantly improves the rust protection. The amount is tiny, but it is there. These also tend to include fluorides. There are alternatives, but these too have their issues.
A bit of a techie subject but if you want to know about this search “ cobalt passivates “.
It’s quite likely people criticising EVs drive round in cars protected from rust by cobalt. Oh the irony.
Really great information
Thanks for watching & sharing