Who can wear Pacific tattoos? | Say It Wit Yo Chest
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 เม.ย. 2021
- Christian Malietoa Brown, Shaneel Lal, Theo Farrow, Charlene Tedrow, and Disciple Pati discuss the age-long controversial debate of who can wear Pacific Tatau. They discuss the meaning behind these traditional marks and the cultural significance. Christian explains his opinion of the sacredness of Pacific markings and how he believes they should be respectfully carried. While Charlene suggests where non-Pasifika should be getting their tattoo symbols from. The panel also unpacks what responsibility the tattooists have in this conversation of culturally appropriated Tatau and if the art has been commercialized for capital gain.
Hosted by Gee Gee Pikinga.
"Say It Wit Yo Chest" is a roundtable set up to discuss controversial topics and unpack unpopular opinions through a modern Pacific lens. It is conversations on topics we might not ever think about and topics we might be having debates about on a daily. Topics ranging from the impact of Cardi Bs WAP to the debate on the Samoan Malu.
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If they understood how sacred it is to have your cultural marks on your body then they would understand that it’s NOT for them.
I agree with Christian. I wish there was a tattooist on the panel. Mainly to give clarity on why they tattoo. But the tattoo belongs to our culture, not just those without them and with their own grand opinions.
so what if my father was samoan and forced me to grow up with my mom who is palagi? he purposefully didn't teach me my language, didn't bring me around my family, and straight up told me he wanted me to be a white kid. he stripped me from my culture and i am dealing with this everyday having to prove to people how samoan i am even though i have been taught nothing and have always wanted to be apart of my family and my culture. i am constantly being turned away from people in my culture because i'm too "white washed" and i'm not "allowed" to do things that involve my culture because my mom was white even though i had no choice as a child. as an adult i didn't think people would be gatekeeping a culture, especially as an adult.
Don't give up. Keep searching and you'll eventually find someone or some people that'll be more than willing to help you learn the Faasamoa way and teach you about your culture. If your mana is that strong and you truly want it that much, then nothing should stop you or get in your way of searching for your cultural identity.
Do YOU, pimp!!! F%ck what ANYONE says!!! LOL
There’s full blooded people who probably grew up the same way as you did and have to “prove” themselves as well. Nobody can you strip you away from your Samoan culture unless you let them! However, you do have a responsibility of learning your cultures’ language and customs, etc. You can learn so much without your dad! Don’t let him be your main resource. Lucky thing we have the internet cuz of the many resources, you got this dude.
Wow, I’m exactly the same as you. I’ve never known anyone else in this position. Maybe I am more “white washed” than you though because I don’t feel as strong of a pull to the culture, but I’ve been questioning whether it may be important for me and maybe I’m just unconscious of it because I had zero exposure to the culture growing up. I’m still on the fence about it to be honest. Stay strong. I agree with the others, I think you can absolutely belong more to this culture if you’re willing to do the work.
You just described my exact situation too. I too have had to accept that I will never fully belong to either Samoan or Palagi ways and that I and my siblings are a bridge between the two. We will never receive the knowledge of language and family connection to Samoa via our Dad, so we are claiming it for ourselves in our own ways. I’ve applied for my dual Samoan citizenship (by descent) as my way of claiming my heritage and to help prepare for a time that I can go over for a longer period of time, live in my family villages, learn the language, and understand the ways of my ancestors. One day when I am ready, I even hope to accept the chiefly titles my father rejected for himself and maybe even get my malu. I really don’t think my Dad understands how cutting his culture off from his children would affect us and create identity issues. It’s just that old story of colonisation rippling through the generations and keeping us all disconnected from our truths. But we can do this my friend! We can still receive our ancestral knowledge and claim the birthrights that were withheld from us due to our own fathers’ suffering, it just involves a lot more work and healing. 💛🌺
Such an important discussion, especially for our future generations. These are sacred markings. They have great significance and must be recognised and honoured as such. Ancestors have much to say.
Coconet we need a longer version of this!! More panel talks for these topics!!
I've had this conversation with many people around the Malu and Pe'a. Thank you for bringing this up.
Can we have more of these discussions please! It’s so interesting hear their views and it would be good to get the view of those who get Tatau’s and aren’t ethnically connected into the Samoan or Maori culture. Thanks for the great insights!
More more & more please! Absolutely appreciate segments such as these!
Bula Vinaka Vaka Levu, Great stream. Keep up the great work. PACIFIC ISLAND CULTURE and all the BEAUTY and MEANING of it SHOULD BE GLORIFIED and NEVER FORGOTTEN.
Much Peace and Most Thanks Due @TheCocoNetTV. Pacific Island Shine Blazing in Australia.
I’m not Polynesian but I’ve lived in New Zealand for many years and I have a Polynesian tattoo to honour my connection with New Zealand and the pacific islands which include symbolism that resonates with my life path… I’m proud of my connection to New Zealand and the many wonderful people I’ve met and I hope no one will ever feel offended by my tattoo
You have a story behind your tatt, so I personally as a Kiwi and a poly I am no way offended that you have it. When people get one just for a fashion statement like I think Rhianna did, now that is where I get offended that is being disrespectful. I think Robbie Williams also has a story behind his one too and why he got it but I think he actually asked for permission first otherwise the artist wasn't going to ink him.
😂your not kiwi or poly cover it up
That's all good Kirituhi is fine
Better been the boonga tats, not a Ta Moko
Better been the boonga tats, not a Ta Moko
A panel speaking about tattoos and not a single tatttoo in sight. With all the Polynesian tattooist in NZ you’d think it would be a panel of tattooist🥴
was just about to comment this. And these people areeee lol, where is the Tufuga ta Tatau. where is the elders where is polynesians historians and philosphers who study this stuff and spend years on the Polynesian culture
charlene has tattoo's on her legs
Agreed, I just wrote something similar. There are so any tattooists in the Auckland area they could have had on. Steve Ma Ching being one who basically revived the popular Samoan patterns in sleeves through his work on SBW.
💯💯
😂💯
With all due respect but why does shaneel lal get to speak on behalf of itaukei fijians regarding our art of Tattooing or Samuqawe it's not his place to say. He is clearly overstepping. He should stick to henna...
and thats the tea lol
Say it LOUDER for the people at the damn BACK 🗣
Who is Shaneel Lal? Seriously. Coconut TV need to do better at selecting WHO they put on their panel to discuss such a delicate topic.
He doesn’t represent the itaukei Fijians PERIODTT 😤
It always makes me uncomfortable and angry When I see non Pacific Islander with our tataus. I’ve always felt like if you respect it, leave it alone. If we allow them to keep getting it ,one day it’s going to be as generic as Chinese symbol tattoos. They can literally google someone’s Tatau and walk into a tattoo shop and get it and I’m not ok with it. I’ve honestly met a few palangi ppl who regret getting it. Look at Rihanna, she got one done and then covered it with a henna tattoo. There’s also Filipino tattoo artists who are taking our designs and mixing it with theirs and putting it on ppl. I always tell these ppl to rep their own shit, and leave mine alone. Like, represent your own culture! MY ancestors markings have nothing to do with you, the left it for US, not YOU. I KNOW our ancestors are turning over, about this. It ain’t right. Love yalls show though ❤️🙏🏽 much love from a taahine in Louisiana
Preach it louder for the people in the back! My partner is Tongan & we have this conversation on the daily! Over the many years that we have been together we have had this conversation many of times & the more time goes on the more passionate I become about this statement! ❤️🤍
I am half Irish my mom is half Tahitian half Fijian but I can be white passing, I am planning to get one though, it can be difficult when ppl don’t know I’m Pacific Islander withought asking
@@ryanmccarthy406 you can get a Tahitian’s and Fijian’s tattoo or symbol from these beautiful islands. Somehow put it together looks smooth and awesome “harmony/ married well”. Penny for thoughts.
But if your Ma is Tahitian Fijian, that is your blood.. What I’m not okay with is the people getting Pacifika tattoos that have no meaning, depth, cultural representation, blood or knowledge - that have so much meaning & ofa behind it to a person of Pacific decent.
@@ryanmccarthy406 your mixed so it's your choice... did you even try to talk it out with your fam?
I understand the frustration and offence if it was a tapu tattoo like the Samoan Pe'a, Malu, Taulima or the Maori Ta Moko but a lot of the tattoo artists I know tend to rule those ones out when non-Pasifika ask for them, explaining the cultural connection to them but they don't mind tattooing anything else Pacific Islander inspired that have no sacred connotations which in my opinion is fine. It would be like calling it cultural appropriation when Pacific Islanders or anyone for that matter use English letters to tattoo certain names on themselves.
Thank you
Agree
The "sang for Judith Collins" subtitle made ma howl 😂😁😂
OMG CAN I JUST ACKNOWLEDGE THIS AMAZING PANEL and what I fantastic show ❤️
Very good topic of discussion,
Culture honored is culture preserved...😎🤙
if they really understood how sacred it is to have your cultural marks on your body then they would understand it's NOT for them.
Sacred is the Pe’a and Malu Tatau. But the other designs are known as common or Noa! These are not sacred. Maybe do your homework. Don’t run other people down for loving the art of your people. Some people do not understand , be proud people find these Tattoos so beautiful. Maori in New Zealand are proud to share there art with those who do not identify as Maori, It is becoming more accepted for not only Maori but those born here to get a Maori design in their tattoo. It shows how much we love that culture and by adopting it as our own isn’t that a good thing.
So here's a question so my mom told me she's part hawaiian like 2 or 3 years ago (my dad says I'm not and etc its a long story that ion mind sharing) and I try learning more of the culture and I wanna go to Hawaii and new Zealand and samoa to learn a culture I love the hakas I love pe'a malu and nora tattoos and the hongi the connection of the people the history(still learning etc) and connection with the sea so I wanna get a maori tattoo and I have a good meaning for it as well so if I get it would that be ok?
@@KiwikimNZ stop spreading lies, us Maoris do not allow Pakehas to inherit a Ta Moko If it didn't have a significant meaning.
Ask any kaumātua of a marae they will tell you the ta moko wasn't created to be placed on a white man's body.
It represents the Maori whakapapa, a person who represents something they are not is flawed in the Maori tradition
@@KiwikimNZ you are Hawaiian, not Maori, get a Hawaiian tattoo as it represents your culture and connection with the sea
can we get a longer discussion on this topic, please!
I understand and hear what everyone is saying. Within our marking holds great truths, history and honor. The frustration of seeing thees marking on a non-Pacific islander body is understood. So I will say my peace and leave it be. I design my own tattoos I am a Tongan female. Within my marking I integrate both my pride in my culture and my journey with other cultures. Some of the marking with the Polynesian design can be seen in other marking all over the world. What then can we say about that? I have done my research within this topic and it is deep and endless. Our ancestors were explorers and warriors as we are today. How can we meet others in the middle without feeling threaten?
What a great conversation. Agree with another comment, that this should be longer. However, they all seem to agree on the points made.
Where is the full discussion?
Our ancestors tattooed palangi sailors way back as a form of trade.
There's girls out there who know damn well they don't deserve the MALU. they just get it to make themselves look cool zzz. And if ur a part of Polynesia thn you can get it. Well that's my opinion. If not, thn pls don't.
I greatly appreciate you recognizing the Hapa community I was blessed to be allowed to receive my kakau even though I am only half it hurt knowing that a lot of the community felt I was unworthy
My partner is preparing to get his samoan pe’a done, im cookisland and his father just recently wanted me to get the malu done along side my partner, although i was greatfully honoured by the proposal, i humbly declined because i to believe that our tatau holds alot of meaning.
well said
The women giving the tattoos at 0:32 and 2:20 are actually Kalinga tattoo artists . You can tell by their skirts and the snake skin and centipede tattoos that they are giving Filipino tattoos. Unless Filipinos are considered as Pacific Islanders in this context, I'm not sure if the panel meant to include the Philippines in this conversation.
Yes I noticed the footage of the Filipino tattoo artists, it is from the Coconet TV documentary 'Marks of Mana' which is available on YT
If you want to get a tatau to prove your heritage, learn your whakapapa, papaanga, genealogy first. Respect the cultural significance of a tatau.
Yes!!! like the oldies always say, Ka muamua lou guku!!!
I agreed with you. Loto fa’afetai for sharing this.
I am white and I am married to my Samoan husband of 30+ years. I know my place.
Yes, yes, yes
Even if we were to completely disregard the inappropriate aspects. I never understood getting other people’s culture tattooed on you. Like other than the “it looks cool” what significance does it have to you? Everyone has ancestors and culture in their bloodline. Why not get a tattoo of your own culture?
That’s a good point, but tattoo is not involved in everyone’s culture. Sometimes people feel the deep and strong meaning that these symbols evoke, they educate themselves about the culture, the symbols, they pay huge respect to the culture they are looking at.
I always see it that truly nobody chose the culture or country he lives in, but going through life, you learn things, you look around and there are things that resonates a lot with your spirit in the inside. So…what about those people ? I mean, I truly love māori tattoo culture and I know it’s deeply interconnected with the culture as a whole and I try to educate myself about it, I speak from time to time with māori people and one day I would like to receive a kiri tuhi and when I hear these conversations ofc I am sad, because it looks like that outside there are people who only want to appropriate the culture, when in reality there are also those who look at the culture with huge respect and admiration. But I get that ultimately Polynesian people should decide.
It’s out of our control so it’s pointless to get worked up about it.
Tbh I grew up in Hawaii and a lot of Hawaiians HATE Samoans/Tongans yet they rock our tattoos because they have no clue it’s not theirs.
Are we gonna accept them wearing Samoan/Tongan tattoos because they’re “brown” too despite their bigotry toward us?
Rhetorical question obviously. Point is, we can’t do jack squat about it
True they hate us like that over there? I thought we all the same people over there.
what? are you serious? this is just bad. i thought at least the language would be a good-enough bridge but no ehy? ok
This comment couldn’t be further from the truth. Samoans andTongans in Hawaii, of which there are many, are slow to accept Hawaiians as a legitimate culture and separate people despite the obvious connections. Hawaiians have to live in the shadow of South Polynesians who sometimes adopt a dismissive attitude towards Hawaiians seeing them and their land as a sort of cultural backwater.
The pacific is beautiful like it's people 💯
Everyone "appropriates" from every race and culture no matter what it is tattoos, language, music, clothing, dance, art, etc.
Disagree
@@lostdracco6744 Explain
Cook Island/Samoan/Tongan here.
Christian is right you must do the work
This conversation is bullshit. White Europeans that visited Samoa in the 1800’s were given the honour of the pe’a from your own Ancestors!! Do your research !! You can’t simply demand that the tatau is your birthright because “it’s in your blood” as a Samoan no it doesn’t work like that. You have to earn the right through service and the way you carry yourself.. clearly the Europeans earned that right if the ancestors gifted them The Pe’a surely!!! You can bet your bottom dollar you walk the street and ask any random samoan with a sleeve on to tell you what each and every pattern on his arm means and he wouldn’t have the slightest clue in the world!.. bottom line don’t get butt hurt when you see non samoans with the Pe’a because you don’t know what their story is their connection with samoa may be even stronger than yours but u never know and it ain’t your business.. you can compare it to respect many people demand respect but have they earned it ? Same thing with the tatau many samoans have one but have they earned it !? So before preaching about how you feel about who can and can’t have one I think it’s best to know what your talking about because getting emotional about it and talking about the deep roots, respect and honour of the Polynesian traditional tattoos as a topic of discussion then going out on the weekend and doing god knows what we’ll then, need I say more .....
yikes
Well said bro.
I know this is a serious issue, but sorry, I was mesmerized by butch poly Boy George. He is prettiful, as Aunty Tala would say.
They should just use symbols from their culture smh
Im greek I am a waterman and I’m an orthodox.But I’ve always felt all the Polynesian culture and way of life in me.Its kinda funny cause the word Polynesian is greek and it means poly=very and nesian=islands so i guess the whole word together means many islands which is true cause that area is full of islands…Anyway I would really love to get one pacific tattoo because I’ve learned what the symbols mean and I got so many of them so yeah….would you let me get one to honor my family,protection and brother?
I personally think only us polynesians should get it as it’s our culture! As only a half samoan I don’t feel worthy enough myself to get a Samoan Tatu even though it’s in my blood, we are already losing a lot of culture and as he said Our culture is not your costume !
The next one we need to talk about the race of them within the Pacific and Maori community
A good discussion would be why so many polynesian cultured embrace other people getting their tatau but 99% maori people are FIRM against it.
Im glad my tongan family aint so closed off
Non Polynesians, can literally create their own pattern. Due to the fact that Samoans make our pattern look good. Non- Polynesians can create their own pattern and own it. Literally thousands and thousands of combination of shapes and linear patterns they just havr to creative you dont have to copy our pattern. Im getting a Pe'a next year, I'm Chinese Samoan living in UK. Ive proven myzelf in service . And got approval from elders to wear the Pe'a. Basically the Tatau Pe'a and Malu doesnt belong to the person, it belongs to Samoa, this is why the person needs to have blood affiliation to Samoa.
hmm tough one.. tattoos are a cultural pride and treasure of ours but i really think our languages need to be preserved especially with many 2nd or 3rd generation polys overseas and marrying outside our race. I dont have tattoos, any of us polys can walk in a tattoo parlour and get one but not everyone can speak the language yet im proud that i can.
As long as Pacific Islanders keep saying nigga imma get my tattoo. An eye for an eye 🤷🏾♂️
The N word isn't a cultural appropriation, it isn't something revolve around culture omfg
Ayo I’m weak🤣🤣🤣
How about the afakasi like my husband who is Half Samoa but has very light skin ? He loves Samoa and his culture. For him to get Samoan design tattoos on his arms, helped him to feel more Samoan.so please don’t judge all you see . It’s been hard for him it really has. So think twice before you judge all people. Get to know their story please
As a hawaiian in my opinion you should get a polynesian tattoo by a polynesian of that culture as long you do your research and have a powerful meaning for these beautiful arts ,and you know what not to get with these polynesian tattoos like you can't get the mataora the moko kauae and the puhoro or the pe'a or malu or some kākau you can't get ,my opinion 💯 sorry for the bad grammar
anyone with Austronesian blood
Nope only Pacific Islander
Palagi's can wear Polynesian tattoos but the palangi women stay away from the Malu......
Your Nanao(Tattoo) identifies the story of your belonging.
There’s a history from the past
A Tufuga and a lawyer are both business men... whereas Doctors and Pastors aren't.
Neo-Polynesian type tattoo designs are okay..as long as non-Polynesians don't get the sacred tatau,like the Samoan Pe'a & Malu..same thing goes for Samoans,they shouldn't get the Pe'a,unless they know & accept the responsibility it comes with having a Pe'a,etc..cuz like the Pe'a is not just for show & looks..their is deeper meaning to getting one and the responsibility it comes with it in following the Fa'a Samoa..
Your right bro 😎
Non Polynesian are getting Polynesian tatto is not the original one that the Polynesian people have people are not stupid you know people are do respect the original tattoo for the real Polynesian have on their legs or full arms whatever but non Polynesian people are not getting any off that 🤙🤙🤙
Shaneel Lal "COMMUNITY SUPERHERO" 😂.. SUPERHERO OF WHAT? 🤷
It’s just pure greed... money talks & for the right price, anyone can have it done! Same goes with matai titles. Back in the old days, men of good character & who are well respected within their family & their community were ‘chosen’ by the people to receive titles, where as, nowadays... you just have to pay money for a matai title, even if your an asshole of a man or woman... such a disgrace & bloody shameful!
Having guys in make up & women's clothes speak out for a culture is a funny subject. The new indigenous warriors otg 😂😂
O a’u ose palagi ae mo le lua sefulu tausaga, ua matua taua tagata Samoa ma le aganuu Samoa ia ta ita. Sa ou nofo i Samoa ma ua ou foi e auauna i nuu ma tagata ole tele o avanoa. Taimi nei, olo’o ou mafaufau ou te fia maua se pe’a Samoa ae le’o le sogaimiti. Ou te manao e faamautu le va o Samoa ma a’u ilo’u tino. Po oa mafaufau o tagata Samoa - ose mea lelei po’o se cultural appropriation ea?
3.48 whomst..🤣🤣🤣 stop making up your own words.
If you wanna claim the tattoos claim it BUT it's a free world so 🤷🏻♂️ have your opinions but at the end of the day life goes on and your feelings stay your feelings
😴 😂 I don’t care I be fast to tell them your weird
No don’t matter if they are willing to wear it till the day their die. Let them. I got the blood but I don’t like the style or designs not appealing.
Sorry can't take a discussion hosted by the Bearded lady seriously 😂😂😂😂😂😂
um look all over hawaii...asians and Portuguese looking jokers have it..looking straight not poly....it's wrong to me ..
Ok Groomer
For those on the panel that feel non-pacifika's shouldn't get a tatau then return the gesture, don't braid or dread up, don't make or wear Rasta, dont make Rasta music, dont wear Rasta colors. Stay separate build your walls instead of bridges......now......see how that feels 👎👎👎👎👎👎👎👎👎👎👎👎👎
I don’t know if you watched and listened to the discussion but no one actually felt that non pasifika shouldn’t get tattooed. They agreed that it should be respected by the person to atleast knowing some of the culture and meaning that comes with it.
You mean “reggae music” Rasta is a religion ma brah 👍👍👍👍
The Rasta part I can understand but dreads aren't unique,some Asians,Pacific islanders and Native Americans wore it before it was fashionable.
You missed the whole point of this panel talk
Sorry I’m a homophobia 🤜 🤛
Weather they understand the meaning and what our poly tatau stands for it doesn’t make it ok for them to get it period.. if you’re plastic and know nothing about the culture or so little understanding then it’s still a no.. in samoa we have a saying “Ka muamua lou guku oga ka ai lea o lou pe’a” 🤷🏼♂️