Looks like noncondensables not a restriction..:. I would have pulled the compressor leads off and ran the condenser fan motor and compared the actual temp to the t&p chart before I made any repairs. Probably would have changed the drier if I opened the system to atmosphere also. So glad to see techs using SC & target SH to troubleshoot refrigerant problems. Took 9lbs out of a old Trane unit that calls for 3.5 lbs last week! The customer said that the other tech said he be back because he needed more refrigerant!! You should of heard this compressor! I've never heard anything like it in all my years.
I also suspect noncondesables within the system. Also when pulling the vacuum... the vacuum gauge should be located at the line-set king-valve, not the pump.... When located at the pump, false readings occur. The Appion removal tool can isolate the vacuum hose from the system and perform a system integrity check.
Thanks for all your videos man!! Just starting out in the field and I believe I learn the most watching your videos! I love the hilmor. Bought me one!! Please keep up the good.work
Wonder if it never had a vacuum pulled when they put it in? Non condensibles maybe. Would explain still having a high head if ya pumped it into the condenser but it still is alot lower now! A fresh charge of r410a will be the only way to rule out air.... nice job john i hope this takes care of it for ya
It’s hard to tell on those calls for sure but once you’ve checked where that restriction is coming from then you have a better perspective. But restrictions like this can be tough to figure out. You have to check everything in the system before diagnosing the issue.
Those calls are where some of my gray hairs came from lol. Great job John !! You may never know for sure, but hopefully that took care of it. Take care, Brett
Agree with kevin vt- a new r410a and new filter dryer A MUST with WHOLE system vacuum. It's eliminate all non condensable thoughts. Over all a good job. Just my couple cents.
I see people saying non-condensables.. usually non-condensables causes the head pressure to bounce up and down due to different boiling temperatures of those unwanted particulates
On a refrigeration plant using 404, purging noncondensables is a must because the head pressure will keep increasing. Mind you that a plant will more than likely use a reciprocating compressor(positive displacement) instead of a scroll. However, the theory and practice remains. A restriction can lower or increase pressure depending on it's location. That head pressure was so high I wouldn't be surprised if it was both. The only time I've seen head pressures like that was when I overcharged a system or on a heat pump system running heat mode.
You vacuumed the system down and then thinking there are restriction issues let the old 410 back into the system stored in the compressor??? If non consumables you just reintroduced them back into the system. I would have dumped it and started with new 410.
Great video you do lots of same type troubleshooting I am familiar with.. I also like some your commentators think you had a prior tech get air in your system to get the elevated high side probabally had air in initial install or in the service hoses or whatever before you ever got to this call.. Good Call on recover the R410A and purge nitrogen, at least R410A does not cost you a arm and leg like R22 today.. In my experience and is lot of debate on the topic however if you get a restriction you actually get drops in high and low side pressures.. my example is refrigeration like a walk in freezer, the entire cycle relies on the Liquid Line Solenoid which is a pure restriction drops the pressures.. keep up the good work
I had one like this just a month ago. The strainer just before the piston was partially clogged. It did not look like enough clog to cause the issue but I took it out anyway. I installed a filter drier right at the evap coil, vacuumed, etc. It started up and ran perfect. I suspected the fellow (my neighbor) had put leak stop in it. The year before I could have sworn he told me that he had added leak stop. Anyway, those restrictions can really make you scratch your head. When I initially walked up to the unit my neighbor had his freon tank hooked up and had been adding refrigerant. As soon as I saw 20psi suction and 360psi head I knew his adding freon wasn't helping the situation. haha.
Angelo P best way in his situation would be to use core removal tools on both liquid and suction ports. Remove both schrader cores, have liquid line core removal tool open with no hose attached, hook up nitrogen hose to suction line port, run nitrogen through suction line to push against the piston and out of the liquid line port. Pushing nitrogen against the flow of the metering device should remove the restriction better than pushing it with the flow of the metering device, that would probably clog it up deeper if that makes sense.. The reason I’d remove the schrader cores is so I know any particles have a clear path out of the system. Hope this helps !!
themrmoy40 it depends on the system you’re working on. Look at the nameplate info for max evap and condenser pressures. Usually you don’t want to exceed the evap pressure or you could create a leak in the coil.. but rule of thumb is 250psi
It was debris in the flowrator inlet tube screen. Shit gets caught in there and restrict the flow. That and smaller orifice did it. Trust me. Same symptom with bad txv that stuck on the closed position.
Hey kid. This is Blaze from San Diego. How did that turn out? In my experience high discharge pressure means overcharge, dirty condenser, txt bulb loosely mounted, or the bulb is poorly insulated. That should be txv.
You don't even necessarily even need a micron gauge if you have time and are patient enough. Everybody wants to pump and dump in a hour or less these days. The company I worked 15 years for NEVER owned or used one. I went somewhere last summer for 3 months and they act like it's the Holy Christ Of Coming or something. Run the pump for over 3-4 PLUS hours....save $400+ on a damn micron gauge! You run the pump while doing other stuff so you aren't wasting time. If it's a service call and not a install, leave and come back.
Mixed refrigerants... happens a lot more than you think. Main guy think Freon is Freon... finds a jug and as quick as Bobs your uncle, the head skyrockets. Or air gets introduced....
Wow these "good job buddy" comments are scaring me for the Trade. "Bad compressor"? "Restricted piston"? With those readings...come on. After replacing the piston didn't really do shit other than open it up a litle more for the non-condensables to squeak thru it should have been a complete dump and redo of the 410a. I like the channel and have learned alot off of it but what good is congratulating poor work for guys trying to learn. Sorry for the rant, did two recalls today just like this.
I agree with the complete recharge with new juice. Blow out the lines without the piston. New dryer and a deep vacuum. I just did a 22 system and recharged with R453A, aka RS44B. Running like a champ! 🏆
Did it have a Copeland scroll in it? I've seen this issue before where Copeland was putting a rust inhibitor inside the compressor. This was causing a lot of restrictions in Carrier units with the exact same thing I was seeing on your pressures. causing a high superheat and low sub cooling. If you get called back out there for the same problem, get some AC renew conditioner. This solved about 95 percent of my problems.
Robert, I have an R22 system with piston orifice. I was having high head pressure and high superheat. I wanted to inspect if the right size piston was installed or not restricted so I went up to the attic and opened up the piston after recovering the refrigerant that is. I found the piston to be ok and not clogged so I put it back together. I'm still getting high head pressure and the liquid line is a bit on the warmer side or hot. I suspect a clogged metering device inlet screen as the culprit. I don't feel like going back up in the hot attic to take it apart again. Will AC renew loosen and open up whatever that is clogging the inlet screen if it is in the inlet screen based on your experience? Thanks.
Well it is a conditioner, so it wouldn't hurt to put it in the system it travels with the refrigerant oil. If you do have a clogged screen it is best to take it out and clean it though. if you try the renew you will need to give it about a week to do its thing. But I've had a lot of success with it. It is a little on the expensive side, and you will need an injector to put it in the low side. Good luck.
2 days ago I had Heritage HVAC come to my home in Chelmsford Ma. The guy said I had a restriction in my central air refrigerant line. The cost would be $1200 bucks to fix. Are you shitting me? Any other A/C Techs near Chelmsford Ma. willing to give me a second opinion? The A/C unit is cooling just fine. Just taking a little longer to cool than in the past. $1200 seems a bit steep and think there are better methods to clear this probleem then what was described to me.
I didn't even try to pump it down with that kind of pressure!! I closed the valves trapping most of the refrigerant in the condenser!! Then removed the rest.
Everybody keeps saying non condensables or air in the system. That's not always the case as I found out this last week and a half. I have a 2001 480v 3-phase Trane Voyager 10 ton package unit that I have been working on. I can't figure out why it has high head pressure with low suction. High side is 300 -350 PSI....suction is about 40 - 50 PSI. Also the compressor case and liquid line gets hot as a firecracker at 200 -250 degrees F. I've replaced the compressor. I've replaced/added both suction and liquid driers. I've blown out the system with high pressure nitrogen. I've pressure tested to 250 PSI and both gauges equalize. That means nothing is obstructed. This unit doesn't have a TXV valve mind you, so get that EASY FIX out of your heads right now. I've pulled a vacuum on the system with both valve cores removed for 5 hours. I charge the system weighing in the charge according to the data plate......fuck me...same problem! Recover the freon and purge with nitrogen at high pressure. No restrictions once again and holds 250 PSI for about an hour. I pull a vacuum again for about 5 hours.....charge the system....same problem! It's NOT always air guys.......been doing this shit for 16 years and I have never seen anything like this in all my days. I'm still trying to figure this out and will be working on it again this upcoming week. John
@@bobloblaw9791 I did, it was the condensing coil that was restricted. It finally blew from the high head pressure is the only way I found it. After I replaced it with a new Trane factory coil that took care of the problem. It was very hard to pinpoint and find. Just enough restriction to screw up the works, yet still let the gauges equalize.
There may have been allot of air in there causing high head,remember you evacuated it good to.could be the last guy before u didn't know what he was doing and let allot of air in the system.I have seen to much air in the system do exactly what happened to you.
If you're new to the field don't ever let anybody tell you that 8 to 12 is normal there's no such thing as a normal superheat!! You have to get your wet bulb then dry Bulb and calculate your target superheat!!
How did you come up with that superheat? What was the temp split with that superheat? Was it cooling? What was the supply temp? I bet it's in the 70s. Correct?
Israelhvac Hey man what is the app you're using for the super heat and subcooling information, would love to have that! Enjoy watching your videos as well. Please let me know and thank you!
northco hvac Had an airhandler that kept clogging after we left. So I put a filter drier right at the airhandler...never had another problem. Thankfully.
if you guys making comments actually get paid for ac work, I'm amazed you have a job! non condensibles? restriction would be low suction and head? are you flipping kidding me? McDonald's is hiring!
It may be air in the system or a restriction or non condensables, who knows the thing is was get fix!!!
Great job, John!!!
Looks like noncondensables not a restriction..:. I would have pulled the compressor leads off and ran the condenser fan motor and compared the actual temp to the t&p chart before I made any repairs. Probably would have changed the drier if I opened the system to atmosphere also. So glad to see techs using SC & target SH to troubleshoot refrigerant problems. Took 9lbs out of a old Trane unit that calls for 3.5 lbs last week! The customer said that the other tech said he be back because he needed more refrigerant!! You should of heard this compressor! I've never heard anything like it in all my years.
I also suspect noncondesables within the system.
Also when pulling the vacuum... the vacuum gauge should be located at the line-set king-valve, not the pump.... When located at the pump, false readings occur. The Appion removal tool can isolate the vacuum hose from the system and perform a system integrity check.
Nice work John , we can go back and forth all day on the issue but bottom line it's fixed and working now
Your right Justin!! Thanks bro!!
Thanks for all your videos man!! Just starting out in the field and I believe I learn the most watching your videos! I love the hilmor. Bought me one!! Please keep up the good.work
Wonder if it never had a vacuum pulled when they put it in? Non condensibles maybe. Would explain still having a high head if ya pumped it into the condenser but it still is alot lower now! A fresh charge of r410a will be the only way to rule out air.... nice job john i hope this takes care of it for ya
It’s hard to tell on those calls for sure but once you’ve checked where that restriction is coming from then you have a better perspective. But restrictions like this can be tough to figure out. You have to check everything in the system before diagnosing the issue.
I can see non condensables causing a head pressure fluctuation or a dirty coil but if the drier was stopped up you would be pumping down.
Those calls are where some of my gray hairs came from lol. Great job John !! You may never know for sure, but hopefully that took care of it. Take care, Brett
I would like to see more videos on restrictions. Great job by the way.
Restrictions are the sukiest crap to happen!!!!
Great on John. I would love to seen the amps on the compressor while it had high head PSI. Thanks for the video.
Supco 88 it’s a oil additive- absolutely amazing.. and affordable. Cleans AC , free restrictions lubes TXV.
Looks like they didn't dry the system completely....didn't pull 500 microns. Major non condensables?
Agree with kevin vt- a new r410a and new filter dryer A MUST with WHOLE system vacuum. It's eliminate all non condensable thoughts. Over all a good job. Just my couple cents.
Wonder if the original piston had got crap in it? Nice Work John!
Great job....was probably something stuck in or near the piston.....
Guess we'll never really know...Great video too!
Air in a system will cause high head pressure just because it doesn't compress as good as refrigerant. glad to see you got the problem solved.
Got the same issue but on a 408 rack. Think the charge is fractured but I don't think they'll spend 8 grand for a recharge. Lol
I see people saying non-condensables.. usually non-condensables causes the head pressure to bounce up and down due to different boiling temperatures of those unwanted particulates
On a refrigeration plant using 404, purging noncondensables is a must because the head pressure will keep increasing. Mind you that a plant will more than likely use a reciprocating compressor(positive displacement) instead of a scroll. However, the theory and practice remains. A restriction can lower or increase pressure depending on it's location. That head pressure was so high I wouldn't be surprised if it was both. The only time I've seen head pressures like that was when I overcharged a system or on a heat pump system running heat mode.
Hey john love all your work. I have a question what's that 45 degree connector called for your micron gauge
You vacuumed the system down and then thinking there are restriction issues let the old 410 back into the system stored in the compressor??? If non consumables you just reintroduced them back into the system. I would have dumped it and started with new 410.
On your next videos can you tell us what the number should be with the pressure and everything
Good job not giving up.
Fantastic job John
Thanks Harry!!
Great video you do lots of same type troubleshooting I am familiar with.. I also like some your commentators think you had a prior tech get air in your system to get the elevated high side probabally had air in initial install or in the service hoses or whatever before you ever got to this call.. Good Call on recover the R410A and purge nitrogen, at least R410A does not cost you a arm and leg like R22 today..
In my experience and is lot of debate on the topic however if you get a restriction you actually get drops in high and low side pressures..
my example is refrigeration like a walk in freezer, the entire cycle relies on the Liquid Line Solenoid which is a pure restriction drops the pressures..
keep up the good work
When flushing with nitrogen should you flush from lo to high or high to lo or both, thanks.
Without the piston installed
Good job,been in the same place and crossed my fingers on start up.
Too many slugs out there not giving the vac enough time.
Good job on the repair! That was one nasty restriction!
Thanks man
Did i miss something? You put almost 2 lbs of freon in it, but it takes a little over 7 lbs?
Awesome Israel! Nicely done dude.
Good save, John, piston may have had dirt restricted flow.
How tô remove ice um the compresor,Ang what os the proble ir the compresor is frozen?
Nice work John.
Can i blow system with nitrogen even though it has a fairly new filter dryer?
what brand are you using for reporting your super heat & sub cooling? is that wifi, or blue tooth, thought i saw parker, what model do you have, thx
Great Job John.
Thanks Keith!!
oil inside the evaporator.oil log?
I've had units I vac pumped for a whole day and got the restriction out.
Hey what are you using on that iPad that shows you all of that information??
REP3NTorPERISH5 did u ever find out what he's using on that app for the superheat and subcooling information?
Keep it coming you are good
I had one like this just a month ago. The strainer just before the piston was partially clogged. It did not look like enough clog to cause the issue but I took it out anyway. I installed a filter drier right at the evap coil, vacuumed, etc. It started up and ran perfect. I suspected the fellow (my neighbor) had put leak stop in it. The year before I could have sworn he told me that he had added leak stop. Anyway, those restrictions can really make you scratch your head.
When I initially walked up to the unit my neighbor had his freon tank hooked up and had been adding refrigerant. As soon as I saw 20psi suction and 360psi head I knew his adding freon wasn't helping the situation. haha.
dpeagles geez!
How do you blow the lines with dry nitrogen ? Do you remove both valves and use the suction line to do it ? I Really don’t know .
Angelo P best way in his situation would be to use core removal tools on both liquid and suction ports. Remove both schrader cores, have liquid line core removal tool open with no hose attached, hook up nitrogen hose to suction line port, run nitrogen through suction line to push against the piston and out of the liquid line port.
Pushing nitrogen against the flow of the metering device should remove the restriction better than pushing it with the flow of the metering device, that would probably clog it up deeper if that makes sense..
The reason I’d remove the schrader cores is so I know any particles have a clear path out of the system.
Hope this helps !!
@@DJxDannee hello, how much nitrogen psig ? should be run 200psig ok?
themrmoy40 it depends on the system you’re working on. Look at the nameplate info for max evap and condenser pressures. Usually you don’t want to exceed the evap pressure or you could create a leak in the coil.. but rule of thumb is 250psi
It was debris in the flowrator inlet tube screen. Shit gets caught in there and restrict the flow. That and smaller orifice did it. Trust me. Same symptom with bad txv that stuck on the closed position.
Hey kid. This is Blaze from San Diego. How did that turn out? In my experience high discharge pressure means overcharge, dirty condenser, txt bulb loosely mounted, or the bulb is poorly insulated. That should be txv.
Guess you missed the part of it being a piston
And that hes charging superheat method
Great. 1:30 what the name of the vacuum pump?
Good job John
Air in the system
Nice fix my brother
Charles
Thanks bro!!!
Good stuff ...nice work!
Great job as usual.
Thanks man!!
Pressure..... not " head " pressure. Pressure is psi but head pressure is in inches or ft
Why do you hook up your micron gauge at the pump? You will never get an accurate evacuation
You don't even necessarily even need a micron gauge if you have time and are patient enough. Everybody wants to pump and dump in a hour or less these days. The company I worked 15 years for NEVER owned or used one. I went somewhere last summer for 3 months and they act like it's the Holy Christ Of Coming or something.
Run the pump for over 3-4 PLUS hours....save $400+ on a damn micron gauge! You run the pump while doing other stuff so you aren't wasting time. If it's a service call and not a install, leave and come back.
Leave the vacuum on there could be alot of moisture
Mixed refrigerants... happens a lot more than you think. Main guy think Freon is Freon... finds a jug and as quick as Bobs your uncle, the head skyrockets. Or air gets introduced....
Wow these "good job buddy" comments are scaring me for the Trade. "Bad compressor"? "Restricted piston"? With those readings...come on. After replacing the piston didn't really do shit other than open it up a litle more for the non-condensables to squeak thru it should have been a complete dump and redo of the 410a. I like the channel and have learned alot off of it but what good is congratulating poor work for guys trying to learn. Sorry for the rant, did two recalls today just like this.
I agree with the complete recharge with new juice. Blow out the lines without the piston. New dryer and a deep vacuum. I just did a 22 system and recharged with R453A, aka RS44B. Running like a champ! 🏆
looks good. i would guess restriction. keep posting.
Did it have a Copeland scroll in it? I've seen this issue before where Copeland was putting a rust inhibitor inside the compressor. This was causing a lot of restrictions in Carrier units with the exact same thing I was seeing on your pressures. causing a high superheat and low sub cooling. If you get called back out there for the same problem, get some AC renew conditioner. This solved about 95 percent of my problems.
Robert, I have an R22 system with piston orifice. I was having high head pressure and high superheat. I wanted to inspect if the right size piston was installed or not restricted so I went up to the attic and opened up the piston after recovering the refrigerant that is. I found the piston to be ok and not clogged so I put it back together. I'm still getting high head pressure and the liquid line is a bit on the warmer side or hot. I suspect a clogged metering device inlet screen as the culprit. I don't feel like going back up in the hot attic to take it apart again. Will AC renew loosen and open up whatever that is clogging the inlet screen if it is in the inlet screen based on your experience? Thanks.
Well it is a conditioner, so it wouldn't hurt to put it in the system it travels with the refrigerant oil. If you do have a clogged screen it is best to take it out and clean it though. if you try the renew you will need to give it about a week to do its thing. But I've had a lot of success with it. It is a little on the expensive side, and you will need an injector to put it in the low side. Good luck.
Nice work man! I had one like that last week 350 head on R22 like wtf!! Haha..
You still need to change that piston..
You didn't show how you blew it out with nitrogen.
2 days ago I had Heritage HVAC come to my home in Chelmsford Ma. The guy said I had a restriction in my central air refrigerant line. The cost would be $1200 bucks to fix. Are you shitting me? Any other A/C Techs near Chelmsford Ma. willing to give me a second opinion? The A/C unit is cooling just fine. Just taking a little longer to cool than in the past. $1200 seems a bit steep and think there are better methods to clear this probleem then what was described to me.
If someone leaves nitrogen in system u will have high head pressure the nitrogen wont condense
did you pump down then release the old charge, then add 2 lbs?
I didn't even try to pump it down with that kind of pressure!! I closed the valves trapping most of the refrigerant in the condenser!! Then removed the rest.
Nice job.
Everybody keeps saying non condensables or air in the system. That's not always the case as I found out this last week and a half. I have a 2001 480v 3-phase Trane Voyager 10 ton package unit that I have been working on. I can't figure out why it has high head pressure with low suction. High side is 300 -350 PSI....suction is about 40 - 50 PSI. Also the compressor case and liquid line gets hot as a firecracker at 200 -250 degrees F. I've replaced the compressor. I've replaced/added both suction and liquid driers. I've blown out the system with high pressure nitrogen. I've pressure tested to 250 PSI and both gauges equalize. That means nothing is obstructed. This unit doesn't have a TXV valve mind you, so get that EASY FIX out of your heads right now. I've pulled a vacuum on the system with both valve cores removed for 5 hours. I charge the system weighing in the charge according to the data plate......fuck me...same problem! Recover the freon and purge with nitrogen at high pressure. No restrictions once again and holds 250 PSI for about an hour. I pull a vacuum again for about 5 hours.....charge the system....same problem!
It's NOT always air guys.......been doing this shit for 16 years and I have never seen anything like this in all my days.
I'm still trying to figure this out and will be working on it again this upcoming week.
John
Oh yeah, I forgot....I washed BOTH coils very well too......
You tell me, I'm stumped and fucked here!
Have you figured it out?
@@bobloblaw9791
I did, it was the condensing coil that was restricted. It finally blew from the high head pressure is the only way I found it. After I replaced it with a new Trane factory coil that took care of the problem. It was very hard to pinpoint and find. Just enough restriction to screw up the works, yet still let the gauges equalize.
@@JohnDoeEagle1 nice. Glad you figured it out Thanks for the response
@@JohnDoeEagle1infrared camera helps with those,
thanks for this video,,,save money to customers i hope you charge for the job done .Great job by the way
A restriction would cause low operating pressures, not high. That was definitely non condensables.
There may have been allot of air in there causing high head,remember you evacuated it good to.could be the last guy before u didn't know what he was doing and let allot of air in the system.I have seen to much air in the system do exactly what happened to you.
Seems like it was just over charged
He ended up adding charge you clown.
nice job!!!!
My money is on that the original installer (probably not licensed) never vacuumed it down.
good work. great videos.
Recommended superheat was 31? Wow.
Why is that a Wow to you??
Israelhvac I'm new to the field, I didn't know that that much superheat could be normal. I'm used to seeing 8-12 as normal
If you're new to the field don't ever let anybody tell you that 8 to 12 is normal there's no such thing as a normal superheat!! You have to get your wet bulb then dry Bulb and calculate your target superheat!!
How did you come up with that superheat? What was the temp split with that superheat? Was it cooling? What was the supply temp? I bet it's in the 70s. Correct?
Israelhvac Hey man what is the app you're using for the super heat and subcooling information, would love to have that! Enjoy watching your videos as well. Please let me know and thank you!
hell of nice job
Copeland has a problem with component that degrades and gets loose in the system had the same problem, you will be back
northco hvac Had an airhandler that kept clogging after we left. So I put a filter drier right at the airhandler...never had another problem. Thankfully.
Didn’t get video then got locked out of house
It seems like a lot of you guys down south use pistons and not TXVs. Why is that?
mmmmm Like that hilmore
Moving around too damn much... You need a relaxer pill.
remove the piston and install a txv kit on the evap coil with solve the problem.
No it won't
Non condensables.
if you guys making comments actually get paid for ac work, I'm amazed you have a job!
non condensibles? restriction would be low suction and head?
are you flipping kidding me?
McDonald's is hiring!