Nobody in their right mind would want to make the argument that Dan Sickles was a "hero" in the case of Gettysburg battle. Regular army, Dan Sickles would be court martial for disobeying a direct order, and endangering the lives of his troops. Even if Sickles decided to a skirmish line ahead, his troops would have been overran by the Confederates. Still by leaving the Round Tops undefended is negligence by Dan Sickles.
No one said he was a hero, and I certainly do want to mitigate the affect of his foly, but there were other mitigating factors to Sickle's decision. He was, by several accounts, brave and willing to lead from the front (maybe a little too much), unlike others. Also of note was the fact he felt slighted because of the disastrous position he was placed in during Chancellorsville and felt as though he was getting the same treatment at Gettysburg. Again, I'm not forgiving his actions, just saying it's not as black and white as many think.
I have some sympathy for Sickles at Gettysburg because at Chancellorsville the 11th Corp was routed because it was in an indefensible position and had requests to redeploy refused because Hooker though the enemy was on the other side of the AOP. Sickles thought he was taking the defensible position/learning from the last defeat but Meade knew better. Legend has it Sickles told Meade he had taken the high ground and Meade pointed to the mountains behind Lee’s army and said that’s high ground too, how far ahead of the army are you going to advance.
@@philipdepalma4672 That was on Hooker for giving up the high ground in the face of the enemy and not giving Oliver Howard orders to entrench for possible attacks on his flank.
And if Hood’s suggest for him to let him move his forces further to the right had been allowed, even the troops that Meade sent would have themselves been outflanked. Than the whole army; rear might have been imperiled. And I would be living in the Independent Republic of Texas.
@@the1magageneral323I am not saying Sickles was right, just that I can see him looking at the situation as a repeat of the disaster at the last battle and trying to prevent that from happening. Had the union flank not been crushed at Chancellorsville, Sickles might have acted differently at Gettysburg.
I love that I found your channel. Looking forward to Perryville(if you've already done one on it, please give me approximate date you posted it, thanks)
My one thought on DS at Gettysburg is you could look at the resulting actions as an inadvertent “defense in depth”; which was such a major part of defensive strategy in future wars. Was LRT assigned to him to station troops on? I don’t know. I haven’t seen that documentation. I have heard that DS was assigned to a point of Cemetery Ridge which had very little prominence. And I have heard that he clarified with Mead that he had discretion as to the positioning of his troops. Granted - it should be pretty obvious that moving THAT far forward wasn’t what Mead had in mind.
The thing that gets me is that Sickle's move broke the interior lines, which ultimately allowed the Union to stuff holes in the line. As a commander at any level you are told to not leave your flanks "up in the air" and in Sickles case both flanks end up in the air.
Hero is not a term I would use to describe Dan Sickles whether his decisions at Gettysburg was ultimately right or wrong. The biography on him titled American Scoundrel is more appropriate. He was certainly a character and possibly the ultimate politician as if it could be smoked, drank, gambled, screwed or stolen, he did it. His statue should be in statuary hall in the Capitol.
He was ordered by Major General George Meade to have his corps take a defensive position on July 2, 1863 along the southern portion of Cemetery Ridge, anchoring his northern end to the Second Corps and his southern end at Little Round Top. Hope this answers your question.
Sickles might or might not have been able to repulse Longstreet's attack on Cemetery Ridge at 4:30 pm. If he was unable to then the situation would have been very precarious for the whole union army. There were far fewer reinforcements available at that time than there was two hours later. In my opinion Sickles placement of the 3rd Corps spoiled Longstreet's attack and left Longstreet's Corps with only one fresh division yet to arrive on the field. While maybe not a hero Sickles actions were far from catastrophic and could be viewed as a positive due to the results at the end of the day.
That is a possibility, but I think there were actions on both sides that led to the outcome on day 2. Longstreet was not happy with the orders he received. Whether intentional or not, his delay cost the rebels dearly. Sickles move did in fact cause some confusion within the ranks of the confederates, and might have been partially to blame for some of the delay. However, the position he was assigned was much better and easier to defend for the entire army.
Sickles disobeyed Meade's order on July 1 by coming to Gettysburg at all. Reynolds disobeyed the order not to start a general engagement, and Barlow also advanced his division beyond where he had been ordered to be, with disastrous results. Had Sickles occupied LRT, the 3rd corps would still have been spread thinner than any other Union corps that day, and the LRT flank (salient) would have been vulnerable to the same hazards as the Peach Orchard salient. LRT is a great place for infantry to fight infantry, but it's a terrible place for artillery. It's too rugged and steep. The few guns that can be positioned there can only be used for long distance fire because when muzzles are depressed any more than 10 degrees below the horizontal, the upward recoil tends to dismount them. So when Barksdale attacked them there, the artillery could only have fired over their heads. The terrain between LRT and the McGilvery line was too rocky and swampy for artillery. Even after the line had been corrected, very few guns were placed anywhere south of the McGilvery line. Without the Peach Orchard salient, Porter Alexander would have brought all of his guns to the LRT salient, Hood's insistence on going to the right would have fallen on more sympathetic ears, and every cannon shot to LRT would have sent rock shards flying like shrapnel. The McGilvery line would have been enfiladed, and probably all of Cemetery Ridge. The hypothetical LRT line has been grossly overrated. A flank attack is a probability to be expected, yet very few guns can meet a perpendicular flank attack on an LRT line. Sickles had asked Meade for help in positioning his corps 3 times. And he reported what his skirmishers found. But Meade hated Sickles and blew him off every time. Meade knew that Sickles was his least competent corps commander, yet he intentionally neglected him and his whole left flank (he didn't even know where it was), then Longstreet surprised him with his pants down (after Sickles had tried to warn him). Ultimately, the commanding general is responsible for everything. Good leaders are obeyed. An investigation was made, after which Sickles got a medal and Meade was basically sent to a desk job. We all agree that Sickles' decision wasn't good, but his only other option wasn't good either. Good leadership is what was missing.
The beauty of history is we know the outcome, and this battle worked itself out. It would be interesting to see the outcome if Sickles followed orders.
A lot of these videos condemning Sickles actions that day overlook two key sources defending his performance at Gettysburg: 1) the vast majority of his own men in the 3rd Corps, who in the autumn of 1863 petitioned the government to restore Sickles as their commander; and 2) Confederate General Longstreet, who after the war said that Sickles' forward deployment disrupted his attack on the second day (an attack considerably larger than Pickett's Charge on the third day), which in his view cost the Confederates their best chance for victory.
Nobody in their right mind would want to make the argument that Dan Sickles was a "hero" in the case of Gettysburg battle. Regular army, Dan Sickles would be court martial for disobeying a direct order, and endangering the lives of his troops. Even if Sickles decided to a skirmish line ahead, his troops would have been overran by the Confederates. Still by leaving the Round Tops undefended is negligence by Dan Sickles.
No one said he was a hero, and I certainly do want to mitigate the affect of his foly, but there were other mitigating factors to Sickle's decision. He was, by several accounts, brave and willing to lead from the front (maybe a little too much), unlike others. Also of note was the fact he felt slighted because of the disastrous position he was placed in during Chancellorsville and felt as though he was getting the same treatment at Gettysburg. Again, I'm not forgiving his actions, just saying it's not as black and white as many think.
I have some sympathy for Sickles at Gettysburg because at Chancellorsville the 11th Corp was routed because it was in an indefensible position and had requests to redeploy refused because Hooker though the enemy was on the other side of the AOP. Sickles thought he was taking the defensible position/learning from the last defeat but Meade knew better. Legend has it Sickles told Meade he had taken the high ground and Meade pointed to the mountains behind Lee’s army and said that’s high ground too, how far ahead of the army are you going to advance.
@@philipdepalma4672 That was on Hooker for giving up the high ground in the face of the enemy and not giving Oliver Howard orders to entrench for possible attacks on his flank.
And if Hood’s suggest for him to let him move his forces further to the right had been allowed, even the troops that Meade sent would have themselves been outflanked. Than the whole army; rear might have been imperiled. And I would be living in the Independent Republic of Texas.
@@the1magageneral323I am not saying Sickles was right, just that I can see him looking at the situation as a repeat of the disaster at the last battle and trying to prevent that from happening. Had the union flank not been crushed at Chancellorsville, Sickles might have acted differently at Gettysburg.
I love that I found your channel. Looking forward to Perryville(if you've already done one on it, please give me approximate date you posted it, thanks)
I will put Perryville on my list. Is there anything specific you would like me to focus on? Leadership? Units?
His move forward was against orders and is condemned
No doubt, it was confirmed by both Meade and Warren.
My one thought on DS at Gettysburg is you could look at the resulting actions as an inadvertent “defense in depth”; which was such a major part of defensive strategy in future wars. Was LRT assigned to him to station troops on? I don’t know. I haven’t seen that documentation. I have heard that DS was assigned to a point of Cemetery Ridge which had very little prominence. And I have heard that he clarified with Mead that he had discretion as to the positioning of his troops. Granted - it should be pretty obvious that moving THAT far forward wasn’t what Mead had in mind.
The thing that gets me is that Sickle's move broke the interior lines, which ultimately allowed the Union to stuff holes in the line. As a commander at any level you are told to not leave your flanks "up in the air" and in Sickles case both flanks end up in the air.
Hero is not a term I would use to describe Dan Sickles whether his decisions at Gettysburg was ultimately right or wrong. The biography on him titled American Scoundrel is more appropriate. He was certainly a character and possibly the ultimate politician as if it could be smoked, drank, gambled, screwed or stolen, he did it. His statue should be in statuary hall in the Capitol.
He was a true scoundrel on multiple fronts!
Would the originally assigned line for Sickles fall along the batteries(like Dow's) shown presently on the south end of Hancock Avenue?
He was ordered by Major General George Meade to have his corps take a defensive position on July 2, 1863 along the southern portion of Cemetery Ridge, anchoring his northern end to the Second Corps and his southern end at Little Round Top. Hope this answers your question.
Sickles might or might not have been able to repulse Longstreet's attack on Cemetery Ridge at 4:30 pm. If he was unable to then the situation would have been very precarious for the whole union army. There were far fewer reinforcements available at that time than there was two hours later. In my opinion Sickles placement of the 3rd Corps spoiled Longstreet's attack and left Longstreet's Corps with only one fresh division yet to arrive on the field. While maybe not a hero Sickles actions were far from catastrophic and could be viewed as a positive due to the results at the end of the day.
That is a possibility, but I think there were actions on both sides that led to the outcome on day 2. Longstreet was not happy with the orders he received. Whether intentional or not, his delay cost the rebels dearly. Sickles move did in fact cause some confusion within the ranks of the confederates, and might have been partially to blame for some of the delay. However, the position he was assigned was much better and easier to defend for the entire army.
Sickles disobeyed Meade's order on July 1 by coming to Gettysburg at all. Reynolds disobeyed the order not to start a general engagement, and Barlow also advanced his division beyond where he had been ordered to be, with disastrous results.
Had Sickles occupied LRT, the 3rd corps would still have been spread thinner than any other Union corps that day, and the LRT flank (salient) would have been vulnerable to the same hazards as the Peach Orchard salient. LRT is a great place for infantry to fight infantry, but it's a terrible place for artillery. It's too rugged and steep. The few guns that can be positioned there can only be used for long distance fire because when muzzles are depressed any more than 10 degrees below the horizontal, the upward recoil tends to dismount them. So when Barksdale attacked them there, the artillery could only have fired over their heads. The terrain between LRT and the McGilvery line was too rocky and swampy for artillery. Even after the line had been corrected, very few guns were placed anywhere south of the McGilvery line. Without the Peach Orchard salient, Porter Alexander would have brought all of his guns to the LRT salient, Hood's insistence on going to the right would have fallen on more sympathetic ears, and every cannon shot to LRT would have sent rock shards flying like shrapnel. The McGilvery line would have been enfiladed, and probably all of Cemetery Ridge. The hypothetical LRT line has been grossly overrated. A flank attack is a probability to be expected, yet very few guns can meet a perpendicular flank attack on an LRT line.
Sickles had asked Meade for help in positioning his corps 3 times. And he reported what his skirmishers found. But Meade hated Sickles and blew him off every time. Meade knew that Sickles was his least competent corps commander, yet he intentionally neglected him and his whole left flank (he didn't even know where it was), then Longstreet surprised him with his pants down (after Sickles had tried to warn him). Ultimately, the commanding general is responsible for everything. Good leaders are obeyed. An investigation was made, after which Sickles got a medal and Meade was basically sent to a desk job. We all agree that Sickles' decision wasn't good, but his only other option wasn't good either. Good leadership is what was missing.
The beauty of history is we know the outcome, and this battle worked itself out. It would be interesting to see the outcome if Sickles followed orders.
It is the history of an ever smaller share of the population of the United States of America.
Not sure what this means. Could you explain further?
@@maddhattalscivilwarhistory2728 Year by year an ever smaller portion of the population of the United States share a common history.
Sickles was a knobber out of his depth.
Just as so many Generals on both sides proved to be.
couldn't have said it better myself.
as a minnesotan i do not like dan sickles
Not many people do. 😀
Definitely a Hero in my book.
That's why I love history...thank you fro sharing your opinion.
Haven't watched this nor do I want to. Sickles was not a hero on the battlefield. He exposed his men to flank fire by Barksdale 's Mississippians
Well, if you watched the video you would see that I never refred to Sickles as a hero! Sorry you missed out!
A lot of these videos condemning Sickles actions that day overlook two key sources defending his performance at Gettysburg: 1) the vast majority of his own men in the 3rd Corps, who in the autumn of 1863 petitioned the government to restore Sickles as their commander; and 2) Confederate General Longstreet, who after the war said that Sickles' forward deployment disrupted his attack on the second day (an attack considerably larger than Pickett's Charge on the third day), which in his view cost the Confederates their best chance for victory.
Sure, that's what Longstreet said, and it might have been true, but you cannot argue that it messed up Meade's interior lines.