WHY a 0mm STEM?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 ก.ย. 2024
- We talk with James from Analog Cycles about his paradigm shifting components Discord. www.analogcycl...
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Loved it. Something that talks to an average person. I need comfort over performance, I'm 59 and like to bikepack. Thanks for having content like this. Too many bike channels are ran by people that used to race, not people that just want to ride for pleasure.
@rollinrat4850 Love the verb " to bike" over the noun "bike".
😅b bb
I am so so bummed it got cut short. I don't guess there is any way to recover the rest of the stream. This has been probably my favorite stream you have done.
same! great insights!
We are living in a golden age. You can buy a brand new bike every six months for $10k, or make a unique clunker from recycled bits and pieces for £200. The world is your oyster.
Totally digging this conversation. Good one!! I'm enchanted with Jame's ideas and Analog cycles. Fine content Russ.
Lol I think true preference comes with age and experience brings true inner wisdom. When I was younger I wanted the newest and best stuff that others used. Now I buy my bikes and parts based on my own preference and not the preference of others ❤️
25:25 for talk about the 0mm stem.
Thank you, so much time wasted
this has been such a great conversation for most non-comparative riders! i share a lot of the same feelings. thank you for putting this out there!
I like this guy, seems like a cool dude to hang out with.
Gravel&Grind was my dream bike shop/coffee shop. Being from Frederick, MD, it was incredibly sad to see it go. Glad James is still up to really innovative things up in Vermont.
I grew up in MD and got to visit Gravel & Grind once while visiting family. Twas a great shop.
@@iWillbike Thanks!
Thanks Stephan! We're working our faces off to try to bring out some rad stuff!
Frederick, MD misses Gravel and Grind. Glad to hear Analog is working out!
In my case, I was trying to bring the handlebars up and back, so I replaced the factory stem with a 90 degree 100mm adjustable stem, which I set straight up to lift and pull back th bars as much as possible.
I wasn't trying to use a 0mm stem, but that's how it turned out.
FWIW, I first heard about Analog when I was researching rim vs disc brakes, and I came across a very well written Analog blog post about the subject.
To take the "don't do what the pros do" analogy another direction, check out how F1 drivers sit in their cars - they are so laid back that their legs and feet are so elevated that the knees and toes are about the same level as their necks.
Are you saying don't ride recumbent cycle? 😋
@@siffoine Friends don't let friends ride recumbents! :)
This is probably one of your best videos yet. Great topic.
great discussion. this is a bike guy i’d like to meet.
I prefer a drop bar over a flat, but stem length depends on what I'm doing. If I'm on hilly stuff I like a little longer stem, if I'm doing a rail trail a "0" would be nice.
I like my clipless setup, but that's for foot slippage and my foot always being in the same spot more than anything.
This is one of my top 5 vlogs of all time. Kudos, salamat.
BTW I do really like his fit philosophy. I have been moving in this direction for a while now and my speed and enjoyment has gone up.
About pedals and size, the reason road pedal cleats are much bigger than mountain pedals is because of old shoe designs that had a lot more flex than they do today. Road shoes used the bigger cleat to mitigate shoe flex and hot spotting, nothing to do with power transfer, mountain pedals stayed with the smaller hardened metal cleat to stand up to the abuse that offroad forces them to see. This is no longer true because mountain shoe now stiff enough soles not to cause hot spotting even with the small cleat. Flat pedals are the same efficiency as clip pedals for "normal" pace efforts for a reasonable amount of time. Chip pedals start to show the value with hard efforts (sprints, etc) and long efforts as you are able to call in different muscle groups to share the fatigue load.
I ride both flats and clips depending on the bike and the event.
Hah! I’ve been to Gravel Grind (and even went to Watershed!), but I actually live in VT as well. I gotta meet this guy 😀
Stopped in at Gravel and Grind a few years back while visiting family. It was a great store!
A great conversation!! Thank you very much!
This was awesome, I just reached out to them to schedule a fit!
I love the cool background light and the warm light on you. Nice look.
You guys just saved my day. Great stuff
Great stuff in this excellent vid. I also use flat pedals only since I won't ever be racing in the city or while checking out the birds and turtles along a trail. I totally prefer alt bars for all the good reasons like easier on the back, better visibility hence awareness, better breathing and just more control in general. Drop bars are ok if the bar is above the seat and the drop is below but still I prefer alt bars. No wonder I could never find 0m/m stems here in Taiwan because, gee, there aren't any. Most girls here are usually smaller and until recently most frames were too big. By the way I have a couple of wonderful 80s butted steel lugged 24" wheel mtb's for my Asian wifey and her friends.
I'm elated that this subject was addressed.
Russ you guys would have LOVED Gravel & Grind! Only got to go a couple times before they closed but it was an awesome shop. I'm sure Analog is same or better.
I found them looking for some MKS pedals and fell in love. They have some really cool stuff.
@18:30 🤔 that flies against the laws of physics. The change in area the force is applied through changes pressure but the power or force transmitted is still the same. If you like flat pedals...great! Just don’t make science up!
Hey James! Well done. (The Sutra guy)
Great discussion! I will add that carbon fiber is actually the most repairable material used in bike frames. Poor design and weight savings as a priority lend itself to being more fragile, but carbon can be built more durably and repaired again and again. Keep on pacin'
Can be, but usually isn’t, because of the reasons you mention
But No... power transfer has nothing at all to do with surface. The force is passed thru to the pedal with the same amount of force regardless the size of surface, that is pure science. What a bigger surface can do is give a better stability, thats all. This guy has to deep dive into physics for a while...
Power transfer from you pressing on the pedal to make you go forward has a lot to do with surface. If the surface is as slick as ice, the power you put to the pedal will go towards spinning the wheel around not propelling you forwards. You rely on the friction between your tire and the ground.
@@keltonbusby2119
Yees... that is of course true, but what does that at all have to do with the area you have on the pedal. You are talking about the friction coefficient between the tyre and the road, aka the road surface....! Thats a totally different ball game....
He was talking about the area of the pedal, The large area of a flat pedal vs the tiny area from the clip on a SPD pedal. He meant that a bigger surface on the pedal would give a better power transfer and that is as far from the truth you can come. As long you have a stiff shoe which will give a very small flex and hysteresis( energy converted into heat) the size of the surface mean nothing else than ev. stability. A big flat pedal and a SPD pedal are connected to the crank arm exact the same way. The force you put on the pedal will generate the exact same force on that pedal mount on the crank regardless type of pedal, in theory at least. In reality a flat pedal probably will be less efficient since you typically have softer shoes which will deform and absorb some energy via a flexing sole though, transforming some movement to heat, plus not allowing as efficient pedal stroke( engaging less muscles).
@@MrTheropod totally agree! I misunderstood that the comment was referring to pedal surface not road surface.
@@MrTheropod I think this is more for the 'everyman in real-world situations' than ideal scenarios. I think there is some evidence for this in how he also talks about how an aero tuck is not going to work well if you have extra fat.
There's a different result if you start with the premise of:
A) assuming the use of a soft, walking-comfortable shoe and compensating for it with a flat pedal to optimize power transfer,
VS
B) starting with prioritizing the most efficient power transfer and ruling out softer shoes to begin with, which by extension rules out flat pedals which require some give.
As I understand it there are softer cycling shoes that look like normal shoes, though I haven't heard anything good about them.
Also keep in mind the position of the ankle that cleats vs flat pedals give. Someone with weak shins/calves or limited ankle range of motion may prefer one over the other because they are pedaling inefficiently.
@@Aubreykun
It is like always! there are a lot of variables in the equation and they differ from person to person, shoes, personal preferences, foot placement on the pedal, limited ankle range etc that in real life can make one sort of pedal more effective than another( and not necessarily always the SPDs), that is totally true and I agree. What does not differ from pedal to pedal and what was the thing here is the fact that a larger area pedal not can transmit a larger portion of the downforce from the leg to the crank, just because the bigger area. That is unfortunally a common misunderstanding, have I seen. The pressure on the pedal is much more concentrated on the SPDpedal though. Still same force on the crank. If you hit a scale with a hammer or hit the same scale with the same hammer but put a nail in between, the scale would show the exact same numbers( theoretically of course and if we assume everything was so stiff nothing would dent and therefore transform some energy to heat).
I hope to make it up to the Analog shop in Vermont one day soon.
Pedaling Innovations are the long pedals and I love them.
Great interview. I wasn't able to catch live and it looks like the archived one is cut short.
You didn't miss anything; the feed was *super* laggy and nearly unintelligible.
@@Korina42 Hey thats like me in person!
@@analogcycles8608 tell me about it. Been home since mid-March; may be losing ability to speak. (Typing this one-handed, other is covered in Kettle Chips oil. Should get up and wash hands... soon. 🙃) Husband is reading the Analog Journal and really enjoying it. I will, eventually; having some difficulty focusing these days. 1,409 days in quarantine will do that.
Russ, now that you've "gotten it" re. alt bars, you need to turn the brakes on one of your drop bar sets into a similar angle. Analog Cycles is right, it's not natural to have your hands "square" either flat bar or drop.
This guy is a boss
are you aware if any other company makes these 0mm stems? They look sweet!!!
Cool conversation. I've tried Jones and salsa bars and drop. Terrible for me. Always go back to flat.
Low trail bikes generally have steeper head tube angles. So to say it is something to fix toe overlap seems odd, as it does not really change that.
Also many bikes from the 40's and on were filet brazed so his lug idea doesn't hold water. Interesting guy, but his understanding of bike design logic is limited. Interesting to here different perspectives.
I somewhat agree with the statement about drops. I personally slam my stem, have about 5-6 inches of drop and have a 110mm stem (I'm 5' 7" btw, so I'm riding a position that is considered aggressive even for pros). My friends have looked at my road bike and asked how I could even ride it, one friend who was literally the same size as me tried riding my bike and couldn't stay on it for over a minute.
Although it is impossible for them to ride my bike, I find that I am more comfortable riding like that compared to my bike being higher up with a shorter stem. I also found that when I was helping my friends bike fit is that alot of bikes come with stems that are too long for them but their bars are also too high up. Another thing I found was that alot of people have their saddle too far forward or too far back, but never seemed to be in between.
@@cjohnson3836 late to the party. My seat on every bike goes back almost as far as it can due to weight balance
I think with pedals it depends if you actually use the pull stroke. If you only push then yeah platform is a better option but if you do pull then clip less makes sense. After an ACL replacement I use SPD adjusted float to go with my stance (not centered) and I pull going up hills. This has been a huge benefit for me. I have used platforms and my Knees don't like it way sooner than when I use clip less. I really wanted to go back to platform shoes but I had give it up after my last attempt and how my knees felt after long rides or with lots of climbing.
Russ, maybe you and James could podcast some time? I'm desperately curious about all the good stuff we all missed.
TH-cam ate it. Gone forever.
@@PathLessPedaledTV Sorry, I meant call him up and have a chat then release it as a podcast. You two were getting into the really good stuff when it cut out. Maybe give it a couple three weeks so it feels fresh for you and James. Or not, it's all good. 🙂
Is there a zero stem for MTB?
I wasn't here for when this was live, but it seems like the Q&A got cut off entirely?
Yeah. TH-cam only saved half of the video for some reason. Bummer because there was lots of good stuff at the end.
@@PathLessPedaledTV don't tell us that... just claim it was all crap and we're better off for having missed it :P
Can anyone summarise what he was about to say about steel? My ears had just pricked up!
👍
Damn Rus why you turn it off early ;)
Something was wrong with YT and it cut them off.
So, 28 minutes you guys are talking 0 stems. Why would a 0 stem make a bike twitchy ? Isn't that what trail is for ?
Thanks,
Jeff
You have to be Comfortable to do long rides like centuries
I've been waiting forever for a 0mm stem, but not at $165+. That's price is just stupid
I know it's a bunch of money, but that's what it costs to get things made in the US. The margins, at 165 bucks are very slim. We made the choice to support a US maker rather than take the stem project overseas. Compare the price of this stem to the cost of a Paul Boxcar, or I9 stem. Pretty similar. Those folks are not getting rich off the price. Doing things in an environmentally responsible way, and keeping them local is not cheap.
@@analogcycles8608 Meh I'll wait for the chinese knockoffs then :)
@@whitepawrolls Analogue cycles spend time and money to build this stem and it is disrespectful to tell them that you rather buy one from people who stole from them.
@@bcmtnbka Thats nice, but I'm not concerned with what someone that charges WAY too much thinks. I'm more concerned with getting what I can afford. If you have a problem with that then help push makers to price things reasonably not sky high thinking people will just pay for a name as it were.
Just no...handling on climbs surly will be naff...its climbing steep stuff it will be all over the place
Not true, but some folks have to ride it to understand. I was just doing some mtn bike super steep climbs the other day... no harder to steer than a flat bar mtn bike.
The jiggle sound is so distracting.