Thank you for this amazing video. I got to know a lot from it. Very informative 👏🏾. So huawei is going smart by this hidden technology. I couldn't find the exact amp and voltage of the battery before watching your video. Count me in your followers now from Africa (Mali)
I have a complete Huawei Solution with Inverter, Battery, Wallbox and Optimizers and I am super happy so far. Your disassembly shows, it’s built like a tank. Very solid and high quality engineered. AAA+++
Unfortunately, not as efficient as it could be. Double conversion (550V -> 400V -> 51V) takes its toll. Including DC/AC losses, we get 83% roundtrip. Not to mention that due to the DC/DC converter, each module still uses ~50W in idle mode, so if you need energy not in half a day, but in a few days, you may be in for an unpleasant surprise.
Thank you very much. I was hesitating which way to go, but your video showed me that it's not worth throwing good money after bad. It's better to just replace the inverter and install a regular 48V system.
Well, the main issue is the bidirectional DC to DC, is not the protocol. Protocol can be sniffed in a few days most probably, but you need to provide 400 V DC from the battery and charge it from the 400V buss as well (bidirectional DC to DC), redo the BMS part as well to communicate with the other DC to DC. (It uses 2 DC to DC's until it gets to inverter). Seeing the complexity of the system, I decided to stop the investigation as it's not worth the effort. There are other inverters out there which work directly with low voltage 48V banks and BMS'es like JK BMS deepcyclepower.com/product/jkbms-smart-active-balance-bms/ communicate directly with them. I used Growatt 5000 offgrid inverter in one of my installs with a 15 Kw battery that we built and it works like a charm: deepcyclepower.com/product/48v-280ah-metal-box-kit/
That is also doing DC DC up to 700 Volts. It will raise or lower the voltage depending on the needs of the inverter. This allows connecting 3 phase or single phase inverters. The DC DC's are bidirectional, used for charging from the high voltage buss as well. The main advantage of high voltage bus is lower current, thus using thinner wires for the entire system.
Best regards for you wonderful video! I have 2 questions: why use dcdc to elevate voltate to 400V?this not lose efficiency of all system? Second, Have you think is possibile to upgrade 16s 100Ah batteries to 16s 300Ah keeping same electronics?Pack will charged as well?
Thank you very much for the great teardown. I have already installed about 30 of these batteries, and it's great to see them from the inside and to see that they are well put together. Huawei says there is a dehumidifier inside the battery. Did you encounter such a part inside the battery? Would it be possible for you to do a teardown from the DC/DC on top of the batterytower?
Hi, Thanks for your feedback! I did not see any dehumidifier inside, there's something on the lid that looks like a fire protection cell which should pop if it senses fire to extinguish it. Or maybe I am wrong and it's a dehumidifier. I did tare down the DC DC Part off-camera for learning purposes, but It's too much work to be worth the effort of building that part to connect other batteries. I can look for the photos I got and send on telegram or whatsapp, visit deepcyclepower.com and can find my number there.
@@thecelldoctor8890 There is a fire extinguishing bag in each Huawei battery module, not a de-humidifier. That's why there are those 8x temperature sensors. There's also a battery optimiser inside each 5kWh battery. I saw it at a trade show where they had replaced the metal casing with Perspex.
@@kalbarriman The temp sensors are for the BMS and cell monitoring. The fire extinguisher cell will pop when there's fire present or goes over a certain temperature, it's not linked to the BMS in any way, it's standalone
I see a fan on the BMS board that often makes a buzzing sound on my batteries. Would it be possible to replace it with silent? Can you provide the specifications of this fan? By removing the battery terminals on the BMS, is there also a risk that the BMS will block permanently?
@@thecelldoctor8890 I see, You made pictures. Do You have picture from fans voltage, flowrate etc and also can give me dimensions? I wish order the new silent fans before opening.
Hi, I don't have the battery with me, but I remember those cables come with the battery and looked similar to the MC4, but they might be proprietary to Huawei and not be the same with MC4. It's probably easier to replace them with MC4 type on the battery than looking for the original ones.
You need just the balancing wires from the cells. If you use same capacity cells should be good. Adding bigger cells might work as well, but needs to be tested
Thanks for this video. I had a flood problem in my basement where i had one of these installed. Some Mosfeds on the pcb are blowed out because of that. Cells are all ok. Do you have any idea where I can get a spare pcb?
Sad to hear about the flood. Unfortunately I don't have a source of PCB's for this battery. You can attempt repairing the board by changing the mosfets and cleaning up the board properly of any corrosion.
@@thecelldoctor8890 Thanks for your reply. I already did that but with no success. To bad Huawei doesn't ship spares for this (due to security reasons). I'll need to buy a new one. :( . Succes with your channel.
Thank you for the inside look ! Do you have the dimensions of the cells modules you are removing (16S) ? Also do you think it can be reversed 180 ? (terminal side of the battery facing opposite of the heatsink)
You are welcome! I just opened to check the DC DC part of the battery, I did not take the battery apart. In the video I show some QR code, maybe can identify the cells by that. For sure they are lifepo4 and 100 Ah. From the looks of it, they seem to be similar to EVE-LF100LA. About terminals facing opposite side, you mean the internal battery terminal or the output of the module, the 400V DC ? The purpose of the heat sink is to dissipate the heat from the DC DC module that's converting 48V DC to 400V DC and reverse, 400V DC to 48V. That DC DC is bidirectional and allow charging and discharging the battery from the high voltage bus.
Thanks for the detailed answer, it is appreciated @@thecelldoctor8890 If I can get one of those packs, I'm wondering if I can put the battery terminals on the opposite side it is by default (rotate 180 degrees), facing where the connectors go out of the case instead of facing the DCDC converter (removing the DCDC converter but keeping the nice case, and simplifying routing)
Disconnect the battery from the DC DC and use a 48V charger to get cells above 3V. While charging the bank, measure each cell one by one to make sure they don't get overcharged. If you have any dead cells in the pack, they must be revived or replaced.
Yes, they are LifePo4 cells inside. These need a DC-DC controller as well, which will get voltage to 600-700V DC. The DC-DC from the battery gets it to 400-500, then the controller provides power to 1 to 3 modules for charging and also discharging from their BUS.
I'm surprised about the fact taht inside this battery is a ordinary 50 Volt LFP unit. So it might be easy to connect a batterapack with far more capacity in parallel or not? Does the control unit calculate the capacity or does it only protect overcharging or underdischarging?
That is something to try I suppose. But I assume they have some values in the brain unit to check state of charge. That's basic for every smart BMS. In theory it might work if they did not add safety values for stopping at a certain capacity threshold or if there will be enough interest from some programmers to change those values and allow for higher capacity.
@@thecelldoctor8890 Hi, thank's alot for your quick answer. Actually I don't own this battery but I have several thousands of 18650 LiIon cells from recycled ebike batteries. Furthermore I got alot of old USV lead batteries. If I assemble a big block of those LiIon cell wit 13 cells in series and put a independent BMS on them so I get around 50 volt wich will fit perfectly to the original LPF pack. The idea behind is to buffer them. But if there is a supervision of the capacity of the original battery pack I doubt that it will work. Do you try this idea once out for yourself? Kind regards
No I did not try that. But usually connecting BMS'ses in chain and mixing chemistry is not a very good idea as they have different voltages for charging. Adding a LifePo4 pack in parallel and set both packs at same voltage before connecting might work if the capacity metering don't stop at 2 Kw. Maybe in the future when these batteries start dying or become unbalanced and people starts selling them as Used, will experiment more, but for now I did not afford to break a 2000 Euro battery
@@thecelldoctor8890 Yes I know, you are allright. But at the levels of "48" Volts there are closely similar voltages. 16S LIFEPO have max. 52,8 Volt, 24S lead acid have max. 2,2 Volt for each cell and 13SLiIon have 53,3 Volt with 4,06 V each cell. So they are close together. If you take the LIFEPO as master the LiIon will be slighty underchared and the lead. If you put independend BMS circuits on them so only the max. Voltage will be controlled for each cluster. I thing there might be no problem from this site. Okay I have to check it out first but I'm pretty shure it will work well. What do you think about?
@@thecelldoctor8890 I would like to continue using the memory with a BMS and need a little support, there is the possibility to contact you in other ways such as Facebook or Instagram
@@thecelldoctor8890 I need a little information on how to implement and wire the whole thing..., I’m new to the topic and would be very grateful if you could help me a little
The big problem of this battery system is the self power consumption. Value of 60-70W are normal, so about 1.7kwh/day of loss are normal! That's a lot more than other battery brands. Let's hope that the new Luna S1 will be better in this regard.
Honestly if that’s during sunshine hours, I couldn’t care less. But if that’s at night while it’s discharging, that’s a lot relative to the 5 kWh capacity.
I don't see any sign of neither power consumption or self-discarging anywhere near that. My setup is installed in-house i a (modestly) heated room, is yours installed outside or in a cold place?
Hello, unfortunately I only have the battery with the cables for the voltage sensors, there is the possibility that you send pictures of the plugs on the board, so this white and black of the cells, maybe even the type is on the connector of the board
But now you know something new. It's a good rule to go to sleep smarter than you wake up. And I bet you did not watch start to end, you skipped through and wanted to leave a mean comment. For people disassembling this battery can be helpful. But thanks for your feedback! Let me know what you would love to see related to batteries on this channel and I will think about it. All the best!
Best regards for you wonderful video! I have 2 questions: why use dcdc to elevate voltate to 400V?this not lose efficiency of all system? Second, Have you think is possibile to upgrade 16s 100Ah batteries to 16s 300Ah keeping same electronics?Pack will charged as well?
Best regards for you wonderful video! I have 2 questions: why use dcdc to elevate voltate to 400V?this not lose efficiency of all system? Second, Have you think is possibile to upgrade 16s 100Ah batteries to 16s 300Ah keeping same electronics?Pack will charged as well?
Thank you for your feedback! I think the reason for getting higher voltage is to drop the current used by the system. The pack is able to deliver 2.5 Kw to the main DC DC that gets 400V DC to 700-800V . It is providing loss of power for the transformation, but it makes building the system less expensive and can use low current electronics. That's why the Huawei inverters are so light as well, because they are using high voltage. Compare the weight with an offgrid inverter that uses low voltage (48V DC) and you will see a big difference. If it were to draw 2.5 Kw at 48V, you would have a current of roughly 50A. But if you draw at 400V, the current between DC DC to the high voltage buss of the system is only 6.25 A . That allow you to use standard solar panel cables and connectors instead of some thick cables that can withstand 50A . About increasing pack capacity. Usually BMS'ses have pack size programmed into them, this probably is the case of Huawei battery as well. This allows to detect the life of the battery, set some timeouts for charging and discharging. My guess is that the BMS needs some programming when changing battery capacity, but the best way is to test and see what happens as I doubt that Huawei would offer any insight in modifying their product. Best of luck! And keep an eye for safety, those who plan to work on these batteries. 48V does no harm but 400V can kill instantly.
Vynikajúci výklad, perfektná robota, ojedinelé video tohto druhu. Konečne som pochopil funkciu bateriek Huawei - vynikajúci systém!
Som rád, že video bolo užitočné!
Thank you for this amazing video. I got to know a lot from it. Very informative 👏🏾. So huawei is going smart by this hidden technology. I couldn't find the exact amp and voltage of the battery before watching your video. Count me in your followers now from Africa (Mali)
You are welcome! Thanks for your feedback!
I have a complete Huawei Solution with Inverter, Battery, Wallbox and Optimizers and I am super happy so far. Your disassembly shows, it’s built like a tank. Very solid and high quality engineered. AAA+++
Unfortunately, not as efficient as it could be. Double conversion (550V -> 400V -> 51V) takes its toll. Including DC/AC losses, we get 83% roundtrip. Not to mention that due to the DC/DC converter, each module still uses ~50W in idle mode, so if you need energy not in half a day, but in a few days, you may be in for an unpleasant surprise.
@@sigun0 Measuring with 24h cycles I get much better roundtrip efficiency than 83% Do you have the batteries installed outside?
Thank you very much. I was hesitating which way to go, but your video showed me that it's not worth throwing good money after bad. It's better to just replace the inverter and install a regular 48V system.
Thank you. I was looking for ,thank you again
You are welcome!
What is the voltage/capacitance level of the alu caps used in the inverter?
Also, did you put the battery back together and it worked without any issues?
Yes, it worked without problems
Wonder if we can find its rs485 protocol so we can connect not-Huawei battery to the chain.
Is it possible?
Well, the main issue is the bidirectional DC to DC, is not the protocol. Protocol can be sniffed in a few days most probably, but you need to provide 400 V DC from the battery and charge it from the 400V buss as well (bidirectional DC to DC), redo the BMS part as well to communicate with the other DC to DC. (It uses 2 DC to DC's until it gets to inverter). Seeing the complexity of the system, I decided to stop the investigation as it's not worth the effort. There are other inverters out there which work directly with low voltage 48V banks and BMS'es like JK BMS deepcyclepower.com/product/jkbms-smart-active-balance-bms/ communicate directly with them.
I used Growatt 5000 offgrid inverter in one of my installs with a 15 Kw battery that we built and it works like a charm:
deepcyclepower.com/product/48v-280ah-metal-box-kit/
Did you succeed in sniffing the internal battery-to-BMS communication interface?
RESU10H
@@stefan-lupo-pelzl我也好奇，
If the battery module also has the DC-DC, what is the controller box doing? I mean the separate box that is needed besides the battery itself...
That is also doing DC DC up to 700 Volts. It will raise or lower the voltage depending on the needs of the inverter. This allows connecting 3 phase or single phase inverters. The DC DC's are bidirectional, used for charging from the high voltage buss as well. The main advantage of high voltage bus is lower current, thus using thinner wires for the entire system.
Thank you!
Спасибо друг!
You are welcome!
Best regards for you wonderful video! I have 2 questions: why use dcdc to elevate voltate to 400V?this not lose efficiency of all system? Second, Have you think is possibile to upgrade 16s 100Ah batteries to 16s 300Ah keeping same electronics?Pack will charged as well?
Thank you very much for the great teardown. I have already installed about 30 of these batteries, and it's great to see them from the inside and to see that they are well put together. Huawei says there is a dehumidifier inside the battery. Did you encounter such a part inside the battery? Would it be possible for you to do a teardown from the DC/DC on top of the batterytower?
Hi, Thanks for your feedback! I did not see any dehumidifier inside, there's something on the lid that looks like a fire protection cell which should pop if it senses fire to extinguish it. Or maybe I am wrong and it's a dehumidifier. I did tare down the DC DC Part off-camera for learning purposes, but It's too much work to be worth the effort of building that part to connect other batteries. I can look for the photos I got and send on telegram or whatsapp, visit deepcyclepower.com and can find my number there.
@@thecelldoctor8890 There is a fire extinguishing bag in each Huawei battery module, not a de-humidifier. That's why there are those 8x temperature sensors. There's also a battery optimiser inside each 5kWh battery. I saw it at a trade show where they had replaced the metal casing with Perspex.
@@kalbarriman The temp sensors are for the BMS and cell monitoring. The fire extinguisher cell will pop when there's fire present or goes over a certain temperature, it's not linked to the BMS in any way, it's standalone
Так, там є нагрівальний елемент
I see a fan on the BMS board that often makes a buzzing sound on my batteries. Would it be possible to replace it with silent? Can you provide the specifications of this fan? By removing the battery terminals on the BMS, is there also a risk that the BMS will block permanently?
No, removing the BMS did not make any issues.
@@thecelldoctor8890 I see, You made pictures. Do You have picture from fans voltage, flowrate etc and also can give me dimensions? I wish order the new silent fans before opening.
Do you know if there if there is a spec on the 4 blue external connector ? I'm trying to source a cable Thanks in advance
Hi, I don't have the battery with me, but I remember those cables come with the battery and looked similar to the MC4, but they might be proprietary to Huawei and not be the same with MC4. It's probably easier to replace them with MC4 type on the battery than looking for the original ones.
Ok thank you !
@@thecelldoctor8890
Would it be possible to connect external Lifepo4s from other brands to the BMS module? is there any communication between bms and cells?
You need just the balancing wires from the cells. If you use same capacity cells should be good. Adding bigger cells might work as well, but needs to be tested
@@thecelldoctor8890测试过，只能充电放电5度
Thanks for this video. I had a flood problem in my basement where i had one of these installed. Some Mosfeds on the pcb are blowed out because of that. Cells are all ok. Do you have any idea where I can get a spare pcb?
Sad to hear about the flood. Unfortunately I don't have a source of PCB's for this battery. You can attempt repairing the board by changing the mosfets and cleaning up the board properly of any corrosion.
@@thecelldoctor8890 Thanks for your reply. I already did that but with no success. To bad Huawei doesn't ship spares for this (due to security reasons). I'll need to buy a new one. :( . Succes with your channel.
@@hanssmits2581hi, do you still have the electronics board?
@@ВладиславХромов-й4й i do. But I didn't got it repaired
@@hanssmits2581 could you send it to me?
Thank you for the inside look !
Do you have the dimensions of the cells modules you are removing (16S) ? Also do you think it can be reversed 180 ? (terminal side of the battery facing opposite of the heatsink)
You are welcome! I just opened to check the DC DC part of the battery, I did not take the battery apart. In the video I show some QR code, maybe can identify the cells by that. For sure they are lifepo4 and 100 Ah. From the looks of it, they seem to be similar to EVE-LF100LA.
About terminals facing opposite side, you mean the internal battery terminal or the output of the module, the 400V DC ? The purpose of the heat sink is to dissipate the heat from the DC DC module that's converting 48V DC to 400V DC and reverse, 400V DC to 48V. That DC DC is bidirectional and allow charging and discharging the battery from the high voltage bus.
Thanks for the detailed answer, it is appreciated @@thecelldoctor8890
If I can get one of those packs, I'm wondering if I can put the battery terminals on the opposite side it is by default (rotate 180 degrees), facing where the connectors go out of the case instead of facing the DCDC converter (removing the DCDC converter but keeping the nice case, and simplifying routing)
Yes, for sure, can be turned around, but you also need to upgrade the connectors if you plan to use the 48V directly.@@valjuvic
Thank you !
Yes connectors will need an update ,but it enables less proprietary tech
Is there a way to get it up again after it’s fully empty?
Disconnect the battery from the DC DC and use a 48V charger to get cells above 3V. While charging the bank, measure each cell one by one to make sure they don't get overcharged. If you have any dead cells in the pack, they must be revived or replaced.
these are LFP if not mistaken. new 7kw model coming soon with 15y guarantee and controller module
Yes, they are LifePo4 cells inside. These need a DC-DC controller as well, which will get voltage to 600-700V DC. The DC-DC from the battery gets it to 400-500, then the controller provides power to 1 to 3 modules for charging and also discharging from their BUS.
timeframe when do you think they will be out? i just bought the KTL 6 single phase but not the batteries i guess i should wait!
@@sale666 tech sheets are available. I'd say Q3 2024, but a guess like any other
I'm surprised about the fact taht inside this battery is a ordinary 50 Volt LFP unit. So it might be easy to connect a batterapack with far more capacity in parallel or not? Does the control unit calculate the capacity or does it only protect overcharging or underdischarging?
That is something to try I suppose. But I assume they have some values in the brain unit to check state of charge. That's basic for every smart BMS. In theory it might work if they did not add safety values for stopping at a certain capacity threshold or if there will be enough interest from some programmers to change those values and allow for higher capacity.
@@thecelldoctor8890 Hi, thank's alot for your quick answer. Actually I don't own this battery but I have several thousands of 18650 LiIon cells from recycled ebike batteries. Furthermore I got alot of old USV lead batteries. If I assemble a big block of those LiIon cell wit 13 cells in series and put a independent BMS on them so I get around 50 volt wich will fit perfectly to the original LPF pack. The idea behind is to buffer them. But if there is a supervision of the capacity of the original battery pack I doubt that it will work.
Do you try this idea once out for yourself?
Kind regards
No I did not try that. But usually connecting BMS'ses in chain and mixing chemistry is not a very good idea as they have different voltages for charging. Adding a LifePo4 pack in parallel and set both packs at same voltage before connecting might work if the capacity metering don't stop at 2 Kw. Maybe in the future when these batteries start dying or become unbalanced and people starts selling them as Used, will experiment more, but for now I did not afford to break a 2000 Euro battery
@@thecelldoctor8890 Yes I know, you are allright. But at the levels of "48" Volts there are closely similar voltages. 16S LIFEPO have max. 52,8 Volt, 24S lead acid have max. 2,2 Volt for each cell and 13SLiIon have 53,3 Volt with 4,06 V each cell. So they are close together. If you take the LIFEPO as master the LiIon will be slighty underchared and the lead. If you put independend BMS circuits on them so only the max. Voltage will be controlled for each cluster. I thing there might be no problem from this site. Okay I have to check it out first but I'm pretty shure it will work well. What do you think about?
Unfortunately, my rule is electrical faulty, is there a way to continue to use the memory anyway?
Hi, what do you mean ?
@@thecelldoctor8890 I would like to continue using the memory with a BMS and need a little support, there is the possibility to contact you in other ways such as Facebook or Instagram
You can use the lifepo4 cells battery with a 16S BMS
@@thecelldoctor8890 I need a little information on how to implement and wire the whole thing..., I’m new to the topic and would be very grateful if you could help me a little
@@benehlers5538可以卖给我？
BMS能否卖给我？
I guess we can use standard inverter from different brands on the battery by removing the DC DC by dropping the voltage as normal 😢
Yes, that's possible, but you need to have a BMS installed to safely charge the cells as well. The DC DC has role of a BMS as well
The big problem of this battery system is the self power consumption. Value of 60-70W are normal, so about 1.7kwh/day of loss are normal! That's a lot more than other battery brands.
Let's hope that the new Luna S1 will be better in this regard.
Honestly if that’s during sunshine hours, I couldn’t care less. But if that’s at night while it’s discharging, that’s a lot relative to the 5 kWh capacity.
I don't see any sign of neither power consumption or self-discarging anywhere near that. My setup is installed in-house i a (modestly) heated room, is yours installed outside or in a cold place?
I saw that you took high-quality photos with the phone, can you please send me these pictures?
Hello, unfortunately I only have the battery with the cables for the voltage sensors, there is the possibility that you send pictures of the plugs on the board, so this white and black of the cells, maybe even the type is on the connector of the board
Hi, I no longer have that battery around unfortunately.
que te parece?
LFP is also lithium ion... lithium ion = rechargeable !
You are right
it is li phosphate from datasheet
My god it takes a long time, could have edited a bit more.
32.53 lost time of my life, try something else!
But now you know something new. It's a good rule to go to sleep smarter than you wake up. And I bet you did not watch start to end, you skipped through and wanted to leave a mean comment. For people disassembling this battery can be helpful. But thanks for your feedback! Let me know what you would love to see related to batteries on this channel and I will think about it. All the best!
@simontibi >>>Your life ? :)) if you say that, you know nothing about life😎
Best regards for you wonderful video! I have 2 questions: why use dcdc to elevate voltate to 400V?this not lose efficiency of all system? Second, Have you think is possibile to upgrade 16s 100Ah batteries to 16s 300Ah keeping same electronics?Pack will charged as well?
Best regards for you wonderful video! I have 2 questions: why use dcdc to elevate voltate to 400V?this not lose efficiency of all system? Second, Have you think is possibile to upgrade 16s 100Ah batteries to 16s 300Ah keeping same electronics?Pack will charged as well?
Thank you for your feedback! I think the reason for getting higher voltage is to drop the current used by the system. The pack is able to deliver 2.5 Kw to the main DC DC that gets 400V DC to 700-800V . It is providing loss of power for the transformation, but it makes building the system less expensive and can use low current electronics. That's why the Huawei inverters are so light as well, because they are using high voltage.
Compare the weight with an offgrid inverter that uses low voltage (48V DC) and you will see a big difference.
If it were to draw 2.5 Kw at 48V, you would have a current of roughly 50A. But if you draw at 400V, the current between DC DC to the high voltage buss of the system is only 6.25 A . That allow you to use standard solar panel cables and connectors instead of some thick cables that can withstand 50A .
About increasing pack capacity. Usually BMS'ses have pack size programmed into them, this probably is the case of Huawei battery as well. This allows to detect the life of the battery, set some timeouts for charging and discharging. My guess is that the BMS needs some programming when changing battery capacity, but the best way is to test and see what happens as I doubt that Huawei would offer any insight in modifying their product. Best of luck! And keep an eye for safety, those who plan to work on these batteries. 48V does no harm but 400V can kill instantly.