"Harnisfechten" in Ottoman Armor
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ก.ย. 2024
- In this video Isa Martell breaks down fighting to gaps in armor against HEMA fighters. While Harnisfechten is a word only used in the context of western armored combat , particularly in the German traditions, we are currently only using this word as a general term for fighting in armor and does not reflect a term used in historical middle eastern fighting.
#hema #armoredcombat #ottoman #islamichistory
The armor looks really cool! It's pretty nice to see Ottoman items in HEMA practice.
Thanks!
In rewatching this, at 5:50 he got me in the stomach at the same time I did the cut.
I had that noted when I put the clips together but missed it while doing the commentary.
Did I hear correctly that this in Minneapolis?
I’m sorry but a lot of your attacks would have done absolutely nothing against your opponent’s armor. Especially the big slash at 5:47 which caught all maille and probably the top of his breastplate too. I don’t think he would have suffered any damage from that realistically. Swords don’t cut through maille, and I don’t think that type of sword is designed to thrust through it either. Realistically your best bet in this situation would be to throw them down and pull a dagger.
If you’re trying to do a bohurt style fight here then sure, but it’s not harnischfechten if you are scoring attacks that would effectively do nothing as a “win.”
Sure, besides Sipahis were equipped with maces and kilijs
Awesome fights!
Thanks.
i anticipate that the kilij might struggle against that armoured man... even the ones such as the kilij of mehmed II which is borader and choppier...
i suspect itd be down to axes and maces if a armoured ottoman wanted to disable a knight...
Probably, initially you would start with an axe or mace, but as you can see here, you can still use a sword.
It’s not a struggle, it’s just understanding how to use each kind of weapon effectively.
If they weren’t effective, people would have stopped carrying them.
@@isamartell the question is.. what CAN you do with a shamshir against that sort of armour... you COULD get some fairly uniquely angled stabs at the mail if the point is reasonably acute or robust...
but a lot of the 'hits' these guys landed.. wernt armour damaging shots, a slice or cut to a mailed armpit... just.. wouldnt do anything...
of course im making this sort of commentary due to the title being harnischfechten, which is techniques to fight in armour, usually against another armoured opponent and how to disable them with the weapons you have.
but harnischfechten can also just mean... we are fighting while wearing armour
i am legitimately curious what ottoman, or mamluk etc fighting stories or manuals we might have that would explain how these guys would deal with western heavy cavalry or heavy infantry...
I am not entirely sure what you mean. I am the one in the video wearing the Ottoman armor.
We are going only at about half speed because we are training. The point of the exercise is to get past the others guard, not hit them as hard as you can.
If this was real, most people believe that those slashes in the video, which are on the mail, could break the mail. The impact of a hit at full force can break the rivets on mail, and the draw would cut through it.
@@elgostine Maced and axes generally to my understanding
@@elgostine They used things that European also used to deal with heavy armored opponents, attacking gaps, bludgeon type weapons (axe and mace), polearms and firearms.
In Ottoman cases specifically 15-16th century, to deal with European threats they successfully used the combined arms tactics of Turkic cavalry traditions and early possession of firearms technology (guns and artillery).
Where did you get your armor?
I had it made for me by Sergey Gorbatko. He is in Ukraine.
@isamartell does he have a website